I am notorious in manosphere / PUA circles for saying that, when you’re meeting new women and looking to have sex or build up a roster of nonmonogamous relationships, you shouldn’t “screen” women at all, for any reason. You should simply have sex with every woman you find attractive. I described why in both my book and this older article here. I’ve said many times that I only have two requirements for a woman to be in a relationship with me (FB or MLTR anyway): she has to be hot and low-drama. That’s it! Nothing else matters. There are literally no other requirements. I couldn’t care less about her intelligence, education, personality, age (obviously she has to be legal), race, background, religion, family status, single motherhood status, whether or not her parents are still together, or any of the other crap many right-wing Alpha 1.0’s screen their women on (usually in a vain effort to make long-term monogamy work, which of course it does not).

Nope! If she’s hot and low-drama, she’s in, at least as a FB, possibly as a MLTR as well. (OLTR is a different story, but through most of your dating lifespan you won’t have one of those, at least if you’re doing this correctly.)

This then begs the question of who I think you shouldn’t have sex with, even if she’s hot and low-drama. Despite the fact I have a very low bar to entry in terms of my relationship life, there have indeed been women I’ve said no to in the past, despite the fact they were quite attractive and reasonably chill, nice people (at least to me).

Here’s a list of the types of women I think you should avoid sexually, regardless of how little you screen. They are listed in no particular order.

Women you work with. I’ve discussed this already here. Having ongoing sexual relationships with women you work with is one of the dumbest things men do. Men think that it’s easier to just go after women at work, and often it is, but when you have drama with her (not if, but when) and when the relationship ends (not if, but when), you still have to work with her at the office every day. This is going to be hugely awkward at best, drama in the workplace at worst.

As a business consultant with 25 years of experience, working in literally hundreds of companies, I’ve seen this scenario play out over and over again. During the relationship everything is fine, but when the two idiots break up, it disrupts the entire office and creates a living hell for everyone. Moreover, as a man, you are much more liable for sexual harassment and other HR issues than a woman is. Not smart, dude.

I have always had a policy of never dating women I worked with, even back as a young beta male. I’m proud to say I’ve never broken that policy even when I was very temped (and I have indeed been very tempted on more than one occasion). If you really want to go there, get her personal contact info, keep your distance, and when you or her leave the job, then hit her up. This was the exact method I used to get laid in my pre-Blackdragon days as young guy, and it works just fine.

Russian women, at least those living in the West. I explained why here, so read that article. I don’t care how hot she is, she’s not worth it.

Married women, particularly when you know her husband or could “run into” her husband by accident. I think married women who have normal, traditional, monogamous marriages should be avoided altogether if you value your long-term happiness. Regardless, I have to admit that in my past, I’ve delved into this world a few times, so it would be hypocritical for me to advise always staying away from married women.

However! Even when I was playing around with women like this, my rules were very clear and I stuck with them. Namely, that I could not know the husband in any way whatsoever and there had to be no way that I could ever accidentally “run into” the husband. If a married woman didn’t match both of those criteria, I would say no (and I have).

Every time I’ve ever seen guys get in big trouble for playing around with a married woman, it’s always because the guys knew the husband or were in the same circles. Worst case, they did a “Gavin Newsom” and carried on affairs with the wife of one of their close friends. (STUPID!)

So avoid married women completely if you can (unless she has an open marriage; those women are great!), but if you must go there, make sure you don’t know the husband at all and you know for a fact you’ll never bump into him walking the dog in your neighborhood or meeting him at the office Christmas party.

Physically violent women. You should pass on any woman who clearly demonstrates that she’s had a violent past, particularly if the violence was A) recent and B) instigated by her.

Women in your family (in-laws, step-in-laws, etc) or who are close friends to your family. I’ve seen what happens when older guys have sex with their grown daughter’s friends or classmates, or sister’s best friends, when guys fuck their brother’s wives, or even when guys have sex with their own blood cousins (this happens much more often than you think). This kind of thing has even happened in my own extended family. It never ends well. Never. Don’t do it. It’s the same type of thing as having sex with women you work with, in that there’s literally no happy ending no matter how you play it. There are plenty more attractive women in your city than those already closely related to your family.

Underage women. I’ve talked about this in my younger woman ebook, but it should go without saying that you should clearly know what the age of consent is in your city, and then don’t ever go below that age, regardless of how tempted you are, how mature her body looks, or how much she wants you. That means you need to check ID and avoid her if she “can’t find it.”

This is more important than you think, since as you get good at dating younger women, the odds are near 100% that you’re going to eventually be sexually approached by other younger women in the same social circle, and some of these girls will be underage. In addition, sugar daddy dating sites have been absolutely invaded by underage women looking for cash for sex.

I semi-regularly get email from you guys saying that you’ve got your eye on a woman you know is legally underage, and that you want to “go for it anyway.” If you live in Asia or Suicidal Europe, the culture is such that you’ll probably get away with it, but if you live in Cuckoo Canada or the Collapsing USA, holy shit, don’t do it! These cultures seek the blood of men who sleep with women Societal Programming considers “too young.” Living the rest of your life as a registered sex offender isn’t going to make you very happy.

Baby-making monsters. These women are rare, but I’ve encountered them a few times. These are women who are dying to get pregnant right now, right this minute, with any man who isn’t too creepy, particularly if the guy looks like he has a good income. These are usually women in their late 30’s or early 40’s who’ve never had kids and are scrambling to beat their biological clocks, but I’ve run into women like this as young as 21. Stay far, far away.

Women who live too close to you. This is the same concept as women you work with or women closely associated with your family, though in some ways it’s even worse. Having a one night stand with a woman who lives across the street or in the same apartment complex as you is probably fine (though I don’t do one night stands at all because they’re a poor return on effort), but carrying on an actual FB or MLTR relationship with one is almost guaranteed to blow up in your face. How the hell are you going to enforce the once-a-week rule? What happens when she starts coming over to your place whenever the hell she wants? What happens when she sees you at your home with other women walking in? Or hears about it from the neighbors? I’ve coached with numerous guys who did this and it always ends up being a nightmare.

I realize that women who live really close to you may seem like easy, low-hanging fruit. Instead, they’re poison apples almost guaranteed to give you drama and screw up your nonmonogamous relationship life. The ideal distance for a woman in a FB or MLTR relationship with you is 10 minutes driving distance from your home. That way, she’s close and convenient, but not close enough where she feels the “right” to come over whenever she wants, see you more than once a week, or spy on you.

64 Comments on “Women You Should NOT Have Sex With

  1. Muslim women. It doesn’t matter how loosely they follow their religion or how liberal they are, chances are their family isn’t, and I  nor any of my friends have ever not had that shit blow up in our faces.

  2. @Makeshift, can you elaborate? 😀 I’ve actually considered getting with a Muslim girl a couple times but hasn’t worked out yet. When I’m traveling in SE Asia there’s a bunch of them…

  3. Hah the Baby Making Monsters are one of the most dangerous I think.  I avoid childless women around 35-36 like the plague.  They think they are out of time an tend to “accidentally” get knocked up all the time (they “accidentally” stopped  taking birth control months or years ago).  I’ve seen it in my own social circles.  If you insist on it, just be sure to wrap it up with your own condoms.

  4. A public service announcement about married women.

    It is considered justifiable homicide in several states to kill your wife or her sex partner if you catch them in the act. In most other states it would be 2nd degree whatever because of the circumstances.

    So if you are still going to do this,

    she must be advertising her availability, save a copy!

    Don’t be a dick and use game to pull a happily married woman, karma will get you sooner or later.

    Ask her, is your husband a cop, sheriff, in the military, lawyer, judge, politician, gangster, gun collector, big game hunter, been in jail (for what)?

  5. Agree on your list.

    The only place you left out is where you workout.

    It is a huge pain to change gyms/fitness facilities.

  6. Fortunately in Europe, the age of consent everywhere is 15-16. Hell, even if she is younger and “tricked you”, you are not liable for anything. In Scandinavia, however, it is not very common to see men above 25 dating girls below 18 (even 20). The “older guy, younger woman” dynamic is much more common in southern/eastern Europe.

  7. Don’t be a dick and use game to pull a happily married woman, karma will get you sooner or later.

    Change “karma” to “drama” and now I agree with you.

    My general rule with these women is that she has to indicate interest in me, and the more overt, the better. I have never used game to pull a married women “cold” and I don’t think other men should either. Not because of karma (long-term monogamy doesn’t work, period) but because of drama and other related problems. What few married women I’ve been with in my past A) clearly liked me well before anything actually happened and B) had cheated on their husbands before; I wasn’t the first (and I wasn’t the last, at least with most of them).

  8. Married women

    Totally disagree! Married women have probably given me some of the best sex in my life. They are truly incredible. And no, most of them weren’t in open marriages, but were cheating on their husbands.

    I agree that you have to first make sure that you don’t know the husband and that he’s not connected to you in any way. But short of that, you’re really missing out if you don’t go after married women.

    A public service announcement about married women.

    Haha! This should be good.

    It is considered justifiable homicide in several states to kill your wife or her sex partner if you catch them in the act.

    Incorrect. You’re talking about Texas and only Texas. And even there, that’s not exactly true. According to Texas law, killing your wife and her lover upon catching them in the act legally allows you to make a case for justifiable homicide, but the jury doesn’t have to accept that defense. Even then, however, Texas is the only state which has such a provision. In every other state, you would either be charged with murder, or a lesser charge if you can provide a defense based on your state of mind (manslaughter, etc…).

    In most other states it would be 2nd degree whatever because of the circumstances.

    Correct. Either way, this is why you need to make sure that you don’t know the husband and that you’re discrete. If you want, I can give you plenty of tips in that regard.

    So if you are still going to do this,

    she must be advertising her availability, save a copy!

    Huh? A copy of what?

    Don’t be a dick and use game to pull a happily married woman,

    Why not?

    karma will get you sooner or later.

    How? I’m not monogamous and never will be.

    Ask her, is your husband a cop, sheriff, in the military, lawyer, judge, politician, gangster, gun collector, big game hunter, been in jail (for what)?

    None of this is relevant. The only relevant question is if I know him or am likely to bump into him in any way. If not, then the rest becomes a matter of discretion and intelligent logistics. Trust me.

     

  9. Women with tattoos.

    What’s wrong with these? Aside from married women, these are the best!

  10. Many PUA says women with boyfriends are fair game. Personally, I would stay away from those too. The boyfriend may be some kind of psycho.

    I disagree completely on Russian women. I think russians are some of the most attractive women on the planet. During my life I have only met ONE woman whom I consider extremely similar to me, personality-wise (very intelligent, did not wanted to get married, similar sense of humor, etc) and she was russian.

    “Baby-making monsters.”  

    Yeah, THAT. Probably the most dangerous category along with underage women. I had this experience once with a girl, we were having sex missionary position and she was masturbating at the same time. At some point I realized that the condom was gone (luckily I noticed it before coming inside her). Later it hit me: She was doing that on purpose in order to slip the condom away.

    There is also a story I read on the internet. Supposedly a doctor came inside a girls mouth and she later took the sperm and impregnated herself with it. The guy was then forced to pay child support even do he didn’t even came inside her. Incredible

    The lesson: You should TREAT YOUR SPERM LIKE YOUR CREDIT CARD. Specially if you have a high income. If you come in a condom, for example, make sure to flush that thing down the toilet instead of throwing it in a trash can. I am super paranoid about unwanted pregnancies and you should be too.

     

     

  11. I have met many women with boyfriends who were very clearly into me but nothing happened because I guess my game wasnt enough.

    I am therefore very curious about the experience others have in this regard that has worked. Ive not yet found any useful information on this topic.

  12. I have met many women with boyfriends who were very clearly into me but nothing happened because I guess my game wasnt enough.

    I am therefore very curious about the experience others have in this regard that has worked. Ive not yet found any useful information on this topic.

    I said married women in the above list and purposely did not say women with boyfriends, since women with boyfriends are not only free game, but tend to make the best FB‘s. As I’ve shown here, actual sexual monogamy to a boyfriend means almost nothing to today’s women, and if she’s under the age of 23, the word “boyfriend” doesn’t even mean anything… she’ll happily fuck you if she feels like it, with minimal effort from you, even if her Facebook page is plastered with lovey kissy pics of her and her temporary “boyfriend.”

    In my experience, there is absolutely no difference in gaming women who have boyfriends (whom they don’t live with) than women with no boyfriends. I have slept with piles of women who had boyfriends and there was no major difference that I could discern, particularly when they’re younger. Only when a woman has a live-in boyfriend or if she is married do I treat the situation differently (usually I just pass).

  13. It is unless you are immortal, but go right ahead :)

    I realize that since you’re a right-winger you’re not going to understand this concept, but there is nothing immoral on your part about sleeping with a married woman if she clearly wants to sleep with you before you tried gaming her. She is the one committing an immoral act, by lying to her husband and violating a promise she made to him. You are neither lying to anyone nor violating any promises you made. This is why I’ve said repeatedly that married people who have cheating spouses should be angry at their spouses, not the men or women they have sex with. Your spouse is the fucking problem, not the person they fucked. If it wasn’t that person, it would have just been someone else.

  14. Women who live too close to you.”

    BD, where was this article in April when I got hell-fire(not drama) from the 19 year old neighbour. hahaha!!!

    Mistakes I made:

    First red flag. She asked me to change my WhatsApp profile picture. Suggested  one with the opening lines from “If” by Davido(Google it). I can’t listen to that song anymore. lol
    Jumped the gun – said I’m looking for a FB instead of shutting my mouth
    Another red flag. Tried to escalate and she said no about 3 times. Said she “Wanted to ask me something”
    Did not next her when she demanded a relationship for sex, agreed to her stupid version of being FB‘s(after a BJ)
    Replied to every damn call and text, even when I told her stop.
    Invited her over again, even though I was ignoring her. Tried to escalate and she gave the same demands. Hard nexted her.

    Luckily I was reading your book again the second time I invited her over. So when she made her demands I turned her down flat. I knew where I went wrong this time.

    She said things would be difficult and I replied “It wont, because we’re not going beyond knowing each other.”

    She kept on calling after the next morning(Multiple times)I blocked her number on my phone and WhatsApp.

    I learnt my lesson after that. Trust me, I learn fast.

    Shut my mouth, follow the process, next, NExt, NEXT IF THERE’S DRAMA and walk away if need be.

    Thanks BD.

  15. @ black dragon

    Immortal means you cannot die.

    Drama is nothing compared to being shot to death.

    I have done a few married women, some of them were right wingers, I am an independent, VERY independent.

  16. Your ten minute rule for FB and MLTR seems a little short at least where i live. Girls will drop by unless it is thirty minutes or some sort of travel toll. Might be a local thing.

  17. Immortal means you cannot die.

    Sorry for misreading your comment. But your comment still doesn’t make any sense.

    Drama is nothing compared to being shot to death.

    Stupid. How many men in the Western world who fuck married women get shot to death? Or even get shot at all?

    Please read about the 2% Rule.

    I have done a few married women

    Then you’re a huge hypocrite by standing here and telling men not to fuck married women, aren’t you?

    (Jesus. I love traditional conservatives.)

  18. Your ten minute rule for FB and MLTR seems a little short at least where i live. Girls will drop by unless it is thirty minutes or some sort of travel toll. Might be a local thing.

    Correct; it’s a local thing. If you live downtown in a large, dense city, you may need to increase the 10 minute figure.

  19. She kept on calling after the next morning(Multiple times)I blocked her number on my phone and WhatsApp.

    There was a time I had a couple of girls who would not stop writing to me (girls I dated in the past). In fact, being puzzled about it and wanted to understand it has made me discover this blog. They had new boyfriends but kept wanting to hear from me/meet me. Of course I didnt handle that well at the time but perhaps ive learned some things for next time.

     

    In my experience, there is absolutely no difference in gaming women who have boyfriends (whom they don’t live with) than women with no boyfriends.

    Yeah I get that and also agree with the other things you are saying but my experience is different. The stuff that has normally worked did not work on them, and they kept bringing the excuse up of having a bf, though it was quite clear they were into me. Only thing is I am not sure anymore what their age was, perhaps they were over 23.

     

    But what about unexperinced girls? One year ago I was seeing a girl who was a virgin, in the end I let her go (without banging her) because it was more trouble than it was worth, she was so afraid of everything sexual and was starting to use me as her therapist. Recently I had some dates with a very cute 19 year old, we felt like a great match and then she suddenly stopped saying shes too young for this and that she doesnt feel ready for ‘this kind of contact’, not sure what that means but I guess again unexperienced girl who is afraid of stuff. Are inexperienced girl worth it? If yes do you have a technique how to put up with this crap, without losing it? I do have some drama tolarance, in fact I often think its funny, and sometimes struggle not to laugh out loud when the girl does it, but I have a very low patience tolerance, and with these girls its mostly patience that gets tested, especially when I hear crap like this, same with very religions girls sometimes.

  20. Your ten minute rule for FB and MLTR seems a little short at least where i live. Girls will drop by unless it is thirty minutes or some sort of travel toll. Might be a local thing.

    I live in a small “city” where everyone can visit everyone within minutes usually. In my experience girls only come to my house when I arrange it with them in advance, I had only one time a girl who I was dating try to come to my house without invitation – I wasnt home that time. She learned the lesson. Just need to educate them.

    Russian women

    I have only one experience here and I took her home and slept with her within an hour of meeting her. Only thing I bought for her was a metro ticket. But she was living in Russia and traveling, so I guess doesnt count. I also know two Russian women living the west who are totally not like what is described in this blog but both have Russian husbands who (I assume) keep them on tight leash.

  21. Hi, BD… at last, the NC rule worked as predicted. Bitch blocked me on fb a month in NC after she broke us up. Four months later last week, i get a ‘Hello’ message from her and realised i’ve been unblocked. I didn’t and will never respond unless she calls or tries to reach out again. I genuinely don’t give a fuck anymore though, got 2 MLTR‘s, 5 FB‘s, a workout schedule and business ideas to contend with. Thumbs up, BD… From a Nigerian.

  22. The stuff that has normally worked did not work on them, and they kept bringing the excuse up of having a bf, though it was quite clear they were into me.

    Then it was just a bullshit excuse. Ignore it and proceed as normal.

    Only thing is I am not sure anymore what their age was, perhaps they were over 23.

    Women over 23 cheat on their boyfriends too, just not quite as much.

    But what about unexperinced girls?

    No change in my system. Remember that I don’t recommend going for sex on the first date; the second date instead, the third if absolutely nessessary.

    I have had sex with many women where I was the second man they ever had sex with, and did it within 2-3 dates, as normal. I have not had sex with any full-on virgins though (nor do I really want to), so I can’t speak to that.

    I had some dates with a very cute 19 year old, we felt like a great match and then she suddenly stopped saying shes too young for this and that she doesnt feel ready for ‘this kind of contact’, not sure what that means but I guess again unexperienced girl who is afraid of stuff.

    You ignore it and proceed until you get a hard no, as always. Remember this:

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/05/04/ignore-what-women-say-only-watch-what-they-do/

    Are inexperienced girl worth it?

    Worth what? Spending 2-4 hours trying to have sex with them and then quickly moving on if they say no? Yes.

    If yes do you have a technique how to put up with this crap

    My usual system works perfectly with them.

    without losing it?

    I never lose it. I never get angry or start drama. You shouldn’t either.

    I have a very low patience tolerance

    I do too. 2-4 hours and she’s out, and I’m on to the next, with no anger or resentment whatsoever. There are 3.5 billion women on this planet; there’s never any need to get upset about one of them.

    I have only one experience here and I took her home and slept with her within an hour of meeting her. Only thing I bought for her was a metro ticket.

    As I said over in that thread, having sex with Russian women isn’t the problem. (I’ve had sex with many of them.) It’s the drama and bullshit that comes with the package.

    the NC rule worked as predicted

    It usually does. Too bad most men can’t do it.

    Bitch blocked me on fb a month

    For your own happiness and frame, I would not refer to women you have sex with, or women you want to have sex with, as “bitch.”

    I genuinely don’t give a fuck anymore though, got 2 MLTR’s, 5 FB’s, a workout schedule and business ideas to contend with.

    Good.

  23. Muslim women.

    Fully agree. Stay away from them. Regardless of how liberal she says she is, you’re putting your life in danger.

     

  24. For your own happiness and frame, I would not refer to women you have sex with, or women you want to have sex with, as “bitch.”

    That’s right, BD.. I never used the word to describe her to anyone in real life discussions though. I guess the apparent anonimity here  helped root it out from my sub-conscious. Too late to edit.

  25. Muslim women.

    Fully agree. Stay away from them. Regardless of how liberal she says she is, you’re putting your life in danger.

    Uh, no. If you’re in the Middle East or migrant Europe, then maybe. But if you’re dating an americanized Muslim girl in Denver, once gain you’re looking at the 2% Rule and need to calm down.

    (A lot of you guys are really wound up today. Is it the solar eclipse next week or what?)

  26. If you meet a muslim woman in the West who’s clearly DTF and know for a fact that her family isn’t in that country/region, you’re fine. One thing I’ve learned about these women when I dropped out of religion was that they’re the exact opposite of me: I left religion because I took it seriously and thus inevitably came to face the absurdity of its tenets one day or another ; they remain muslims because they don’t give a rat’s ass about the tenets, have amazing mental acrobatics/doublethink skills and simply don’t take it seriously, ESPECIALLY when it comes to sex. And of course this doesn’t even include the “muslim” women who are in fact closeted (to various degrees) atheists; their sheer numbers were another surprise I had when I started opening my eyes.

  27. Hah the Baby Making Monsters are one of the most dangerous I think.  I avoid childless women around 35-36 like the plague.

    For a relationship, sure, but pretty much every chick who isn’t fixed is a baby making monster at some point, so you just gotta make it clear that you don’t want kids. One of my best FBs is childless and she’s 40. I’ve been with many chicks who were childless in their 30s and they weren’t child making monsters…at least not to me they weren’t.

  28. This is an important concept and for guys who “have Game (know how to meet women)” this can be even more difficult than “learning Game.” For example, I’m not a fan of weddings (and after being a Best Man once I will never be in a wedding ever again myself), but I recently went to a wedding for a young relative and the Bride and her sisters and some of their friends are HOT and I would REALLY have liked to “Game” some of them, but instead because they live nearby and closely know those relatives I decided as is mentioned in this post to do what’s even more difficult than Game and that was to NOT Game them (and for guys like myself who have a high level of Game, that’s hard, very hard).

    It was very common historically especially in the last few hundred years for cousins (very often who went to the same church) to have arranged marriages with other cousins. Historically, many marriages were arranged, and many were with cousins or between families who knew each other. I know of cousins who when they lived in another country over a hundred years ago married other cousins. Similarly, recently I made a Family Tree and aside from finding out I am related to some very famous people past and current that I did not even know about until this year, I also found out there are more people who live in the same state I am related to that I didn’t even know about until this year. Therefore, I have no plans to have kids but for those who do they may want to consider making a Family Tree to make sure who they have kids with is not on their Family Tree (some may want to consider finding someone from a different state, or country but that has other issues involved).

    Especially if it’s online it’s wise to avoid women who say they want children right now. If she’s younger go to a bar where they check ID or ask her to show you the year on her ID (maybe joking to make sure they’ll let her in). Most people including women have been Socially Conditioned/Brainwashed into some religion so most women may “say” they are in some religion (even though the majority aren’t too serious about it), but I would avoid people/women who proudly call themselves a “religious freak” and such as that’s a form of extremely high drama to be avoided. More and more “religious” people are learning things such as “oral” (and those type of things) “Don’t Count” (so they are okay even for “religious” people to do before marriage and during marriage). I know of some advanced techniques that can get many “religious/etc” girls to try some new things in ways that totally takes the responsibility off of her because it’s just for an experiment to see if we like it (etc), that really is for her benefit because we’re 100% discreet and it’s rare she’s ever going to meet more than a few cool guys like me to try those things with. The guys who have the money may want to consider having at least two residences (a house or apartment he lives in and in his relationship funnel only the top tier inner circle women ever go there, and then another apartment/”office”/camp/building/room/venue/bar/club/”location” where you bring women you just met). Similarly I don’t play the “High Status Game” (I do the opposite of DHV), I don’t buy an expensive house or car and I’m not going to flash cash, intentionally to avoid the women who want children right now and to not set a provider/boyfriend/husband frame. Also, I don’t ask for phone numbers because I’m not going to give women my phone number that’s only for business (if I was going to ask for phone numbers I would get a second cell-phone, as I only go for Insta-Dates, or plan to meet tonight at x place at x time and can use a pen and paper), plus this makes me appear as not being a “player” and makes it seem like it was natural/spontaneous.

    A few years ago when I was learning if there were better openers I heard some say some openers such as “Are you single?” as one, but I would never say that because I don’t care now (a few years ago if a girl said she had a boyfriend I might not have continued but now I know to usually continue). Many women now say they have a boyfriend/husband, but they “really” don’t, or they’re in the middle of breaking up, or they’re not serious, or it’s a “test” to see if you are strong and continue the interaction. Therefore, I do not even ask if she is single, or has a boyfriend, as it’s not my problem or she may say something that’s not accurate, so I never bring it up. Any opener is better than no opener, openers don’t really matter, and situational openers are usually fine to get a conversation started, unfortunately because of Social Conditioning it’s better to not be too direct to begin with, but I make up my own unique openers (around five) that almost no other guy is going to say that I open with most often and then continue from there.

  29. I have been avoiding to date a couple of women, who didn’t live next to me, and who didn’t work with me, but who work next to my place. 5 minute walk.

    I feared that their work place is “close enough where she feels the “right” to come over whenever she wants, see you more than once a week, or spy on you.”

    Blackdragon, would you also avoid those women?

  30. @Black Dragon, I go to a small university 1,000 on campus should I go elsewhere to meet women to avoid drama or is this large enough to avoid drama if I next them? Also can you do an update of good online dating sites for 2017/18 you recommend. Thanks

  31. Anyone here know why your buddy’s partner is very tempting to seduce? Even she is not that hot, actually.
    And no, I never get into that problem, but in the stomach I know this is problem every man would have.

  32. @Gil Galad
    It might be a different story if u try sleeping with muslim women at conservative country by itself. Bigger chance you’ll be arrested by religious authorities.

  33. @Tom: you’re right, I’m only talking about doing it in the West. Theoretically you can still do it in those countries too and these women ARE having a lot of sex there, but the risks in that case rise beyond the 2% limit and so I don’t recommend it and I almost never do it.

  34. I have been avoiding to date a couple of women, who didn’t live next to me, and who didn’t work with me, but who work next to my place. 5 minute walk.

    I feared that their work place is “close enough where she feels the “right” to come over whenever she wants, see you more than once a week, or spy on you.”

    I think is paranoia. I had a period of time when I dated multiple women at the same time in a small city where everyone can easily get to each other within 1o minutes. During some of this time when I had more than one girl at a time those girls didnt know about it yet and I never had a problem before or after. Maybe its about how you arrange it and who you date specifically rather than general rule.

    Women you work with

    What if you work at a large company and wanna date women who are in same company but you dont and will not work with them? Still a bad idea? For example, if shes from a different department, or she works as a cleaner or a cook, whilst you work as an engineer.

    I have only one experience here and I took her home and slept with her within an hour of meeting her. Only thing I bought for her was a metro ticket.

    As I said over in that thread, having sex with Russian women isn’t the problem. (I’ve had sex with many of them.) It’s the drama and bullshit that comes with the package.

    I was implying in that example that it was a short term arrangement. I can imagine the problems you refer to come if you try to actually date her. So wouldn’t it then be instead of saying dont have sex with Russians, dont date Russians? I know, you dont do one night stands, but in my case it was an easy lay with practically zero effort; she came back for a second night before leaving the city and I also had no drama or bullshit of any kind that time.

    I do too. 2-4 hours and she’s out, and I’m on to the next

    I totally agree, but im not yet anywhere near having a level of game where I can get a steady supply of women to be able to be this picky, though its improving slowly. So when its either wait more dates and hours or nothing I give in to their bullshit and get progressively more irritated. Just to be clear I never lose it in front of the girl, though I cant say im totally stable and ok inwardly.

    The stuff that has normally worked did not work on them, and they kept bringing the excuse up of having a bf, though it was quite clear they were into me.

    Then it was just a bullshit excuse. Ignore it and proceed as normal.

    I did but they insisted and then nothing happened.

    Remember that I don’t recommend going for sex on the first date; the second date instead, the third if absolutely nessessary.

    What if she insists third is still not gonna happen, do you just next her? Or do you make exceptions sometimes if you see there is some development and lots of enthusiasm otherwise?

    You ignore it and proceed until you get a hard no, as always. Remember this:

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/05/04/ignore-what-women-say-only-watch-what-they-do/

    Yes this I have been keeping in my mind ever since I read that article and it very closely matches with my experience, and I even had some extra success since I started to keep that in mind that I wouldn’t have otherwise. I applaud you for that article.
    But, I rarely get a hard no. Usually its a soft no, or stop replying to me. I also experience women who would not say no but would resist every time I tried something but would also continue wanting to meet up, or even suggest it themselves. Probably should next them?

  35. @   AlphaOmega 

    What if she insists third is still not gonna happen, do you just next her? Or do you make exceptions sometimes if you see there is some development and lots of enthusiasm otherwise?

     

    If no sex by end of the 4th date:  consider her out,  assuming you have pushed for it on dates 2,3 and 4.

  36. I have been avoiding to date a couple of women, who didn’t live next to me, and who didn’t work with me, but who work next to my place. 5 minute walk.

    I feared that their work place is “close enough where she feels the “right” to come over whenever she wants, see you more than once a week, or spy on you.”

    Blackdragon, would you also avoid those women?

    It’s a grey area. I’d probably pass, but I don’t feel strongly about it.

    @Black Dragon, I go to a small university 1,000 on campus should I go elsewhere to meet women to avoid drama or is this large enough to avoid drama if I next them?

    No, go for it. College is a easy place to get laid and you should take advantage of this. The only problem there is to avoid dating FB‘s and MLTR‘s in the same social circle. If you can’t pull that off there, date just one FB or MLTR at your college at a time, and have the rest outside of the college.

    Also can you do an update of good online dating sites for 2017/18 you recommend. Thanks

    This book was fully updated with all of that data of last year:

    http://www.onlinedatingsuccessnow.com

    Anyone here know why your buddy’s partner is very tempting to seduce? Even she is not that hot, actually.
    And no, I never get into that problem, but in the stomach I know this is problem every man would have.

    Not me. I’ve never had that desire.

    What if you work at a large company and wanna date women who are in same company but you dont and will not work with them? Still a bad idea? For example, if shes from a different department, or she works as a cleaner or a cook, whilst you work as an engineer.

    If she works in an entirely different building far, far away, you don’t have any co-workers in common, then it’s fine.

    I was implying in that example that it was a short term arrangement. I can imagine the problems you refer to come if you try to actually date her. So wouldn’t it then be instead of saying dont have sex with Russians, dont date Russians?

    No. I don’t have sex with them or date them. Even just getting to one-time sex with them involves a bunch of bullshit that I don’t get with other hot women of other races, so I don’t see the point. Yes, I know there are always exceptions to the rule. The exception proves the rule. Note again that I’m talking about Russian women living in the West. I have no experience with Russian women living in Russia or E. Europe so I’m not talking about those.

    I totally agree, but im not yet anywhere near having a level of game where I can get a steady supply of women to be able to be this picky, though its improving slowly. So when its either wait more dates and hours or nothing I give in to their bullshit and get progressively more irritated.

    That reaction is 100% your fault. I never had that reaction back when I was a beginner or intermediate.  I just shrugged and moved on (at least in most cases; there are always exceptions). I knew, then and now, that it’s always a numbers game, and you’ll always get more no’s than yeses.

    I did but they insisted and then nothing happened.

    Then you did the right thing and it didn’t work with those particular two women, for one of the only three reasons:

    1. They weren’t attracted to you.

    2. They were attracted to you but had too much ASD that you didn’t / couldn’t overcome. (I’m guessing it was that one.)

    3. They were attracted to you and didn’t have too much ASD, but didn’t feel safe having sex with you (socially or physically).

    As I’ve said many times, don’t make sweeping generalizations about all women of a certain type from experiences with just 2 or 3 girls.

    What if she insists third is still not gonna happen, do you just next her?

    I don’t understand the question. If you mean she says sex isn’t going to happen on the third date, I will have the third date if sexual stuff happened on the second date. If literally nothing happened on the second date because she’s resisting, then yep, I next and move on. Again, BASE YOUR DECISIONS ON WHAT SHE DOES, NOT WHAT SHE SAYS. You seem to have a really hard time with that.

    I also experience women who would not say no but would resist every time I tried something but would also continue wanting to meet up, or even suggest it themselves. Probably should next them?

    Yes. That’s classic over-33 behavior by the way. If this keeps happening to you, you’re either dealing with women over 33 or you’re putting out too much of a provider / beta / friend-zone / boyfriend vibe.

  37. My general rule with these women is that she has to indicate interest in me, and the more overt, the better. I have never used game to pull a married women “cold” and I don’t think other men should either. Not because of karma (long-term monogamy doesn’t work, period) but because of drama and other related problems. What few married women I’ve been with in my past A) clearly liked me well before anything actually happened and B) had cheated on their husbands before; I wasn’t the first (and I wasn’t the last, at least with most of them).

    Wouldn’t you say though that a married woman that you were with previously(your previous MLTR or FB) is a fair game if she returned to you and cheated on her husband?

  38. Wouldn’t you say though that a married woman that you were with previously(your previous MLTR or FB) is a fair game if she returned to you and cheated on her husband?

    Of course. That’s happened to me several times. Long-term monogamy doesn’t work. Again though, this is only provided you don’t know the husband and will never run into the husband by accident. Otherwise I would turn her down (until she actually divorced him and kicked him out, which she probably would soon; women hate being married, they just like getting married).

  39. What if she insists third is still not gonna happen, do you just next her?

    I don’t understand the question. If you mean she says sex isn’t going to happen on the third date, I will have the third date if sexual stuff happened on the second date. If literally nothing happened on the second date because she’s resisting, then yep, I next and move on. Again, BASE YOUR DECISIONS ON WHAT SHE DOES, NOT WHAT SHE SAYS. You seem to have a really hard time with that.

    Okay I should clarify. What I meant was lets say stuff does happen but not sex. For example, first date drinks and just talk, second date my place, we kiss, and get a bit sexual but not actual sex, third date same but shes still not ready to have actual sex. Second example: second date just kiss, third date same but she resists doing more. This is what I meant.

    2. They were attracted to you but had too much ASD that you didn’t / couldn’t overcome. (I’m guessing it was that one.)

    3. They were attracted to you and didn’t have too much ASD, but didn’t feel safe having sex with you (socially or physically).

    2. I am also guessing it is this one. Did you write some advice overcoming ASD? 3. Maybe the fact that they knew about my dating life didnt help – I told them directly that im not monogamous and I was currently dating multiple girls. I thought at the time that would help with girls who have boyfriends but now that I think of it probably didnt.

  40. Maybe the fact that they knew about my dating life didnt help – I told them directly that im not monogamous and I was currently dating multiple girls.

    That’s what did it. Never verbalize this to a woman before you’ve had sex with her many times, ideally at least three months in.

    I thought at the time that would help with girls who have boyfriends but now that I think of it probably didn’t.

    You’re applying logic to female behavior. Don’t do that.

  41. How about traveling married women? Conferences & the like?

    Re-read that section. BD clearly states that he’s not saying no married women, but no married women where you might run into the husband. That said, I doubt he’d go for a traveling woman, married or not, since he’s not into one night stands and they’re almost by definition a one night stand. (Unless they were a regular traveler to your city)

  42. since he’s not into one night stands

    Quite right, which is why he says that a seasoned seducer could get to sex in a new city faster than he could, because he builds his pipeline in a different manner.

    I’m not so interested in the not no to married women part, but instead why yes? It seems to me that there are some pretty fantastic women our age (mid 40’s) and playing with married ones who are traveling sidesteps many of the downsides of women over 33.

    I’m sympathetic to the ineffectiveness of one night stands. However, often when traveling, one goes to the same place periodically….for instance, I go to both San Diego & Albany once per year each. I think having a few women who pass through your town (I live in a major one, Denver) could be a useful part of one’s overall rotation (still hoping for a headline post on portfolio management, not just active members which is well defined but also passive members, LSNFTE, etc…all I have, which is good, is leave them alone at least 6 months, monitor on Facebook, and if they change their status to single, send a text invite. There has to be more than this!)

  43. A group I always try and avoid, women with sexual hang ups. That’s pretty broad but includes from experience, women who don’t like cum, women who hate anything at all anal, women who have “trust issues”, who have a low sex drive, women who don’t like giving blowjobs, women who won’t have sex in common sexual positions (don’t like doggie) and so on. If a woman has sexual hang ups based on past relationships, life experiences or simply preferences, if I know about them, I will pass.

    Two other groups, women who are alcoholics and women with any sort of mental health issues. Again, you won’t always know at first but if you do learn of these, run!

    As for Russian women, I agree YOU should avoid them. Send them my way! Haha

  44. I’m not so interested in the not no to married women part, but instead why yes? It seems to me that there are some pretty fantastic women our age (mid 40’s) and playing with married ones who are traveling sidesteps many of the downsides of women over 33.

    Again, I said no married women where you know the husbands or could run into them. You’re correct; having FB‘s who are already married does indeed circumvent many of the problems with being with women over 33 (as well as many women under 33 too) in that the pressure to get serious is completely off of you. But that doesn’t mean the potential for problems/drama doesn’t exist.

    If you’re going to have an ongoing relationship with a married woman, the best way to go about it is when you don’t know the husband at all, will never run into him, and when the husband is an extreme beta and more or less knows his wife is playing around and puts up with it anyway. If all three of those conditions are both true, I don’t have a problem with it. (Since it’s a de facto open marriage on her part.)

    I’m sympathetic to the ineffectiveness of one night stands. However, often when traveling, one goes to the same place periodically….for instance, I go to both San Diego & Albany once per year each. I think having a few women who pass through your town (I live in a major one, Denver) could be a useful part of one’s overall rotation

    If they’re recurring women then they aren’t one night stands.

    Long distance FB‘s are fantastic!

    still hoping for a headline post on portfolio management, not just active members which is well defined but also passive members, LSNFTE, etc…all I have, which is good, is leave them alone at least 6 months, monitor on Facebook, and if they change their status to single, send a text invite. There has to be more than this!

    No, that’s really about it, more or less.

  45. A group I always try and avoid, women with sexual hang ups. That’s pretty broad but includes from experience, women who don’t like cum, women who hate anything at all anal, women who have “trust issues”, who have a low sex drive, women who don’t like giving blowjobs, women who won’t have sex in common sexual positions (don’t like doggie) and so on. If a woman has sexual hang ups based on past relationships, life experiences or simply preferences, if I know about them, I will pass.

    I have no problems whatsoever with those kinds of women. They make great FB‘s and low-end MLTR‘s.

    Two other groups, women who are alcoholics and women with any sort of mental health issues. Again, you won’t always know at first but if you do learn of these, run!

    Again, I have no issues alcoholics or mental cases. They make great FB‘s.

    Men who avoid problematic women like this tend to be men who can’t really do FB‘s, i.e. every woman they fuck must be some kind of emotional / romantic relationship (MLTR) for them. Being able to do FB‘s, where you don’t give a shit about “her” beyond very basic friendship (if that), is honestly very freeing. Read this.

    As for Russian women, I agree YOU should avoid them. Send them my way! Haha

    I thought you didn’t like women with mental issues. 🙂

  46. the pressure to get serious is completely off of you.

    Another benefit of VYW, yes?

    Yes but that’s an oversimplification. The further away from 33 you get, the less pressure you’ll get. It doesn’t suddenly spike downward at age 22. If you dated younger women but not VYW, for example if you dated nothing but 26 or 27 year-olds, you wouldn’t get much pressure either.

  47. for example if you dated nothing but 26 or 27 year-olds, you wouldn’t get much pressure either.

    Fair, and considering I’m 45 & shoot blanks, I wouldn’t expect much pressure anyway.

    It’s pretty awesome…..being a single, good looking and fit professional in his mid 40’s is life on easy mode.

    There is an idea in the manosphere celebrating the “dark triad” of personality traits. I’m not cut out for that shit, but Caleb’s laser like focus on long term happiness as part of an Alpha 2.0 lifestyle squares the circle nicely. Will X contribute to my long term happiness, or not? Granting that I do not have perfect rationality on what my long term happiness actually looks like, it’s a wonderfully effective filter without trying to be the raging asshole that I’m not……and there are really old guys who tell us about long term happiness, anyway: family, friends, professional success, health, etc.

    Anyway, thanks for your response and a most excellent blog.

  48. When in an OLTR, what about the friends and family of your partner?

    An extreme case: Her sister comes and tells your woman she wants to sleep with you, cause she knows you´re open. You like the sister. Your partner says she´s OK with that. Would you believe her and carry on?

     

  49. “Makeshift says Muslim women.”

    I heard this too from Muslim men and non Muslim men.  This is because of her family.  My westernized Muslim roomie only brings home white girls, and never Muslim girls.  I know in Southeast Asian you don’t only get the woman but her entire family too.  Meaning her whole family will hound you frequently.  I use to know a rich older American man who was with a hot Cuban woman wearing a mini skirt half his age.  He told me there was a steep learning curve with any woman from Cuba.  I didn’t pay attention to what he said then, but I mean is it as simple as some people say?  Go to another 2nd world country and women will flock to you.  Or is no one telling you to negatives of this too good to be true scenario?

  50. You like the sister.

    Funny story about that. My last LTR has a sister who’s married to a quad. A literal virgin mother, got knocked up with IVF, has never fucked. In properly run universe I’d rail her out every couple weeks, but she’s intensely religious so I won’t try.

  51. Her sister comes and tells your woman she wants to sleep with you, cause she knows you´re open. You like the sister. Your partner says she´s OK with that. Would you believe her and carry on?

    You would know your OLTR well enough by then to know if that’s a good idea or not. Usually it would not (though there are always exceptions).

    Go to another 2nd world country and women will flock to you.  Or is no one telling you to negatives of this too good to be true scenario?

    Depends on the country. Cuba might be difficult; not sure. But shit, if you’re a white Western guy, go to the Philippines. You’ll be ass-deep in chicks who want you. (They won’t be very hot, but damn, you’ll get sex so fast you won’t believe it.)

  52. I am glad to read your comment about Russian women. I am myself a g Ukrainian, living in the west (Europe) since the age of 19 and “red pilled” more or less from the same age.

    I dont date women from my country or Russia(politics aside).

    When the surge of EE loving charlatans (roosh,krauser) came onto the scene -I could not believe the bullshit they were writing. Most of all,I could not believe the idiots who follow those guys.

    Anyways, what you have written about russian women is absolutely spot on. The issue with their psyche has deeper roots than just money. Russia and Ukraine lead the world in the number of divorces (official statistics) and I can reassure you that unofficially situation is much more grim. It seems to me that most of women from that region have no understanding of men and no respect to men. The society itself is deeply beta (although you have a good number of 1.0 alphas,which are worth than betas IMO ), generally speaking men are brainwashed from childhood into a believe that they are made to serve a woman. This starts from a primary school: your teachers are always women (men rarely teach in ex USSR), you were made to obey the girls, buy them presents on 8 of March (International womens day) etc. From the age of 17 women set a pricetag and start exploring the world of men with money.

    Perhaps the reasons lie in the fact that USSR was an early feminist society (women got voting right in 1917 with Kerensky government and were introduced in all aspects of industrial and administrative life from 1920s by the Bolsheviks). The mass extinction of men during the 1 WW,Civil War,the Purge,the Great Famine in Ukraine and most importanly 2 WW created a temporary shortage of men in 1950-60s and thus a utilitarian attitude towards a man. Women were taught that love etc is something stupid and farfetched-you should be happy to have any man at all as they bring food on the table. Clearly,hypergamy and instincs do not follow this logic which created millions of dysfunctional families. This perpetuated in following generations and still reflects today.

    Sex is also almost always crap.I am following this russian psychologist who advises men on relationships. His findings (from practice)indicate that abnormally high number of Russian women suffer from some sort of sexuality issues-majority of them are not comfortable under the sheets. I agree with him here: even when a russian or ukrainian is good in bed,there is never an emotional connection. There is some screw missing there and I cant point what exactly.Funny enough if you read him and his forum advice number 1 is to seek women elsewhere abroad.

  53. GYM ISSUE: Skip the women where you work and workout, as Dawson noted gym. Hot women at the gyms, hot flirty cashier women at the gym. VERY tempted, but personally I’m gonna shut it down.

    Already experienced one breakup where we met totally elsewhere than the gym, but she joined the same gym later while we were together. And you know how it goes after this: Shitty breakup of course. NC no worky when you see her at the gym. I dont mind seeing her because anyway I mind my own business at the gym focusing on the workout, but hey its not optimal situation and NO WAY would I want to repeat this same thing in the future. Dont do it guys.

    If you love your gym and have no intention of moving elsewhere, just skip the women over there. Saves you some drama and keeps your gym strictly as business (= working your muscles).

  54. If you love your gym and have no intention of moving elsewhere, just skip the women over there. Saves you some drama and keeps your gym strictly as business (= working your muscles).

    I like to optimise my time, so I hit on the girls while working out. I dont care about funny feelings, in fact sometimes its a source of my personal enjoyment.

  55. Hey BD,

    You often say that you shouldn’t flirt or have sex with people you work with.
    What about school? What if you’re at university, and you’re about 160 students on your specific bachelor.
    I’m gonna spend 3 years with roughly the same people, but then again we’re a lot of students.

    What do you think?

     

  56. What if you’re at university, and you’re about 160 students on your specific bachelor.I’m gonna spend 3 years with roughly the same people, but then again we’re a lot of students.

    Obviously not coming from BD, but IMO that’s a very different scenario.

    People change majors all the time, drop out of school etc. Plus your class schedule changes every semester anyway.

    I think if you vet the women properly, there should be no issue here. Plus (in my experience) uni/college is the easiest access to new quality young pussy you’ll get in your entire life (unless you become a rockstar or movie star)

    Just be smart and dig in.

    ==================

    Regarding this list and the married woman aspect, I mostly agree. I’ll still go for it only if:

    – She’s almost throwing herself at me

    – There’s little chance of drama or follow up issues

    Actively gaming women who are married and don’t show initial interest is something I’ve outgrown. It’s a lot more work than is really necessary for getting laid in general and (for me personally) kind of made me fill like a piece of shit afterwards. And I don’t like anything that associates guilt with sex.

  57. @Provigil,

    Sex is also almost always crap.I am following this russian psychologist who advises men on relationships. His findings (from practice)indicate that abnormally high number of Russian women suffer from some sort of sexuality issues-majority of them are not comfortable under the sheets.

    Here’s something I have found, but it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

    Check out if a Russian (EE) woman you have met gets excited by the fetish world. IME a lot of them are, and they can become massively sexual (at least, the submissive ones- you do not want to hang around a Russian chick who discovers that she’s a BDSM dominant.)

    Now you know.

  58. On fucking women who live near to you. I’m in college and there are multiple women i want to game that live in my dorm building. Should I stop?

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