Being Alpha is good. Being Alpha is better than being a beta in literally every way. However, that doesn’t mean you can’t go too far with being an Alpha. In the past, I have talked about hyper-extreme Alpha Male 1.0 celebrity examples like Tom Cruise, Charlie Sheen, Russell Brand, and David Petraeus and the chaos they create in their personal lives as a result if their overwhelming need to control others. Today I’m going to add another too-extreme example of Alpha Male 1.0 behavior: R. Kelly.

To be objective, I must first start out by saying that the source of some of this data is Buzzfeed, which can be a highly questionable source at times. Regardless, R. Kelly has so much bizarre behavior in his past that, to me at least, this is one of those “too much smoke in the kitchen” scenarios. Nor has R. Kelly denied any of these allegations that I know of.

Some quick background on R. Kelly for some context. Stated simply, he has a long history of having sex with underage women. There were accusations of him having sex with a 15 year-old, then later he married Aaliyah when she was 15 (even making a song with her called “Age Ain’t Nothing But A Number”), then after their divorce, there was video of him peeing on an underage girl, then there were pictures of him with another underage girl, etc, Clearly Kelly has a thing for really young girls… girls who can be more easily controlled.

Does that mean that every older guy who dates much younger women is a control freak? Not at all. I’m Alpha 2.0 so I’m the opposite of a control freak, let the women who I date do literally whatever they  want with zero drama from me, and I’ve dated young (and legal) women for many years (in addition to women my age; I love women of all ages). The reason I say this about R. Kelly is the following…

Today, allegedly, Kelly takes hot 18 and 19 year-old groupies and offers to put them up in properties he owns. Once they agree, he controls their lives with an iron fist, including:

  • He tells them what to wear.
  • He tells them what to eat and what they’re not allowed to eat.
  • He tells them when to sleep.
  • He tells them when to bathe.
  • They have to ask him permission regarding when to go to the bathroom.
  • They are “trained” by a “den mother” on exactly how to have sex with him.
  • They have to ask permission to leave their homes or the recording studio when in his presence.
  • They are required to call him “Daddy.” (He calls him his “babies.”)
  • They aren’t allowed to tell anyone where they are. For evidence of this, watch this video at timestamp 3:45, and where one of his “babies” squirms and refuses to reveal where she is when casually asked by an interviewer.

Again, these are all allegations at this point, and none of this is illegal. Kelly, learning from past experience, makes sure to keep all of these women as legal adults (age 18 or over), and there’s nothing illegal about an adult voluntarily being a slave to a hyper-dominant Alpha 1.0.

I have to pause here and address that before I lay into Kelly. A lot of the negative press he’s been getting about this revolves around the fact that he’s 50 and these women are as young as 18. Obviously I have no problem with this. As I’ve argued numerous times at this blog, there is literally nothing wrong with a much older man having sex with a much younger woman (or older woman with a younger man) provided that it’s 100% consensual, both parties are legal adults, and the older person isn’t lying or leading the younger person on. I clearly demonstrated this here.

I have also argued that sexual age of consent should be 16 everywhere in the Western world, and that punishment for having consensual sex with women under that age should a gradual sliding scale, starting out with a slap on the wrist for 15 year-olds and getting progressively worse for every year under that. It makes literally no sense to imprison men and brand them as life-long sex offenders for having consensual sex with a woman four days before her 18th birthday, but then do literally nothing if he instead just waits five days and then has sex with her.

Moving on, when many men read the kind of stuff R. Kelly is doing with his women, they think that this is the greatest thing in the world; all these hot, young chicks doing literally whatever you want at all times. “If I was rich and famous, I’d do the same thing,” these guys often say.

The problem is one of the core disadvantages with the Alpha Male 1.0 lifestyle: what happens when any of these women refuse to follow these mountains of rules? According to the article, some of his ex-babies report that:

If the women break any of Kelly’s “rules,” Mack and Jones said, he punishes them physically and verbally. For example, Jones claimed that Kelly held her against a tree and slapped her outside of a Subway sandwich shop in spring 2013 because she had been too friendly with the male cashier there.

and

McGee also said she witnessed Kelly punish the aspiring Florida singer for breaking his “rules.” “He left [the Florida woman] on the [tour] bus for, like, three days and she was not allowed to come out,” McGee said. “He said she didn’t do her homework — that’s why she was punished — which was very confusing, because she had just graduated [high school] over the summer.”

Those are just the “punishments” we know of. If you know about dating younger women as much as I do, you know that younger women, particularly hot younger women, are essentially teenagers, don’t follow instructions, and do whatever the hell they want, even if they promise to do so.

I would bet real money that R. Kelly not only “punishes” these girls, but does so all the time, on a regular basis.

Since you can’t punish, correct, or argue with a woman while being happy, Alpha Male 1.0’s like this do not experience long-term happiness. Sometimes they’re happy, but often they also feel angry, offended, jealous, or disrespected.

When you seek to control a woman’s (or women’s) life like this, you have to take the good with the bad. The good is that, sure, you have (theoretically) a woman who does whatever you say. The bad is that you’ll have to constantly argue with, lecture, correct, and “punish” these girls whenever they don’t do what you want, which they won’t, because that’s not how women work, particularly women who are young and hot.

I’ve said before that I have no overall problem with Alpha Male 1.0’s. I consider these men my brothers. Being any kind of Alpha, 1.0 or 2.0, is far superior to being a beta. At the same time, you have to realize that if you chose the path of the Alpha 1.0, you will never be as happy, or as consistently happy as men like me, the Alpha Male 2.0. If you say you don’t care, then great. If not being happy as often bothers you, then you should strongly be moving your life into the Alpha 2.0 realm so you can start being happy.

51 Comments on “When Men (Alpha 1.0’s) Get Too Controlling

  1. I agree that Alpha 1.0 isn’t ideal if you pursue a life full of happiness and little drama. However, the example you use here is a bit off IMO. Kelly clearly lives a lifestyle that BDSM community calls Daddy-Little Girls. In fact his kinky girls, unlike other normal girls or relationship, completely love the way he taking care, over-controlling and punishing them all the time.

    Of course, BDSM lifestyle is full of Alpha 1.0 as Dom/Daddy and Beta as Sub/Slave. However, it’s a complete different lifestyle compares to the rest of the world, with its own rules and own definitions of happiness/relationship/pleasure. In my opinion, another example would have fit the article better (and feel more relevant to your audience)

    Keep up the good work.

  2. Since there’s a continued growing influx of people to this – and similar – blogs, I think it’s very important that this topic came at the correct time.
    The hardest thing for the newcomers (mostly beta) to swallow is going from a submissive (beta) frame to a hyper-masculine (1.0) frame, as they are the two different ends of the scale. There’s a lot of remarks about not wanting to be “an asshole” and how it seems unfair to “boss women around”. I think it’s important to understand that true happiness lies in neither of these extremes.

    In my few years of experience with the BD lifestyle, it has become clear to me that the only true way to obtain a harem-like setting is to fire up the outcome independence (next to your other Alpha frame settings). If you truly don’t give a shit – which takes a while – you will obtain a fairly high rating of “faithful” MLTRs (even FBs) who are monogamous to you without the need for any controlling behaviour or (nonverbal) indication of monogamy on your part. My take is that your sexual market value (boosted to the max by your OI) speaks for itself, rendering any kind of controlling behaviour completely unnecessary (and, if used, damages your frame due to incongruency).

    Of course, some men get loads of satisfaction for controlling women (and the drama that follows), and as long as the women are completely willing participants, they should be free to do so. However, with the state of political correctness in the West, men who act like R Kelly, but who aren’t filled to the brim with cash, must be aware that the annihilation of their lives lie at the hands of SJWs who, due to mainstream indoctrination, will have loads of ammo for the misogyni cannon if there are hoardes of women to testify against him and his “toxic masculinity”. I think it’s a lot easier to fire up the OI instead and stay out of the growing crosshairs of the blue pill SJW narrative.

  3. Interesting article, but I must say that I am not completely sure why Blackdragon thinks that being Alpha 1.0 is a good thing. In fact, I don’t even understand why these guys are called Alpha, especially the ones that practice serial monogamy.

    Willingness to “control” and “manipulate” someone sounds like just a sexy synonym for neediness, clinginess and oneintis – terms used to describe Betas. Constant jealousy, arguments and drama. The only difference between Alpha 1.0 and Beta in this case is that Betas are complete pushovers and not willing to instigate the fight, whilst wanting to, but too afraid to act. Still, it doesn’t make Alpha 1.0 any more flattering in my opinion and kinda puts them in (masculine) Beta territory.

    In my opinion, being an Alpha is just what you describe as Alpha 2.0 – outcome independence, no drama, aspiration to maintain/improve your sexual value and level of happiness.

  4. Good piece. However, there are thousands of girls on Fetlife looking for “Daddies” and I don’t mean simply the sugar kind. Thus, many women invite and encourage this behavior. I agree with BD it’s not a happy model in the end, but it should be noted many women seek experiences like R Kelly provides.

  5. From what I read, he didn’t stick to 18-19 year olds. He had girls as young as 16 in areas where that was age of consent.

  6. This is a very common BDSM desire of WOMEN!

    I have had a few dump me because I would not play this game.

  7. BD,

    I’m pretty sure you’re familiar with the show Adam ruins everything which I typically like but he did one about dating recently that I wasn’t sold on. He made some valid points about dating sites and their “scientific” methods of matching.

    They then said there are no such things as alpha or beta males. He claimed that being agreeable, kindness and being supportive were the keys in ltr success. Curious to know what you think and if you saw it.

  8. And you know his mind can’t be a peaceful place to be. There’s no way he’s not constantly worried, suspicious, and stressed out about what these chicks could be doing that he wouldn’t want them to do. If anything, he’s a slave to women because of the way he views them. I have always said that the less you give a damn about what other people are doing, the happier you’ll be.

    Also, I wish people in general wouldn’t put up with behavior like his, men or women… assuming all of the allegations are true. R. Kelly likely has some kind of mental illness or at least heavy narcissism associated with his behavior, and hearing that he could be at times physically and psychologically abusive is unfortunate. Respect yourself and command others to treat you with respect as well.

  9. I think this model is far removed from most people’s reality. The better way to stay in control is through frame, and just have a less important role (of women) in your life.

    Once again, RK’s lifestyle is unrealistic and impractical.

  10. For those of you talking about BDSM and Dom/Slave, that is not what I’m talking about in the article, at all. BDSM and Dom stuff during sex is perfectly fine and I have no problem with that at all. I’m dominant as fuck during sex. I’m the biggest Alpha Male 1.0 during sex. The problem is when this BDSM/Dom stuff ventures outside of sex and into the normal interactions you have with a woman. (“Call me Daddy at all times. Obey me at all times,” etc.) That’s where the problems arise.

    If you truly don’t give a shit – which takes a while – you will obtain a fairly high rating of “faithful” MLTRs (even FBs) who are monogamous to you without the need for any controlling behaviour or (nonverbal) indication of monogamy on your part.

    Precisely.

    Interesting article, but I must say that I am not completely sure why Blackdragon thinks that being Alpha 1.0 is a good thing.

    I never said it was a good thing. I said I have no problem with it if your life proirities don’t include happiness and if you’re making a self-aware deicison. Read this.

    In fact, I don’t even understand why these guys are called Alpha, especially the ones that practice serial monogamy.

    I’ll let them answer that question. But they aren’t actually monogamous; they always cheat.

    Willingness to “control” and “manipulate” someone sounds like just a sexy synonym for neediness, clinginess and oneintis – terms used to describe Betas.

    Correct. That’s why I used to call Alpha 1.0’s “Needy Alphas.”

    I’m pretty sure you’re familiar with the show Adam ruins everything which I typically like but he did one about dating recently that I wasn’t sold on. He made some valid points about dating sites and their “scientific” methods of matching.

    They then said there are no such things as alpha or beta males. He claimed that being agreeable, kindness and being supportive were the keys in ltr success. Curious to know what you think and if you saw it.

    Yeah I already saw that. He wasn’t talking about human beings, but about wolves and other animals in regards to the scientific definition of “Alpha” which is not the definition used by PUA/manosphere.

    The last view videos I’ve seen him do have been very bad. (His one on Myers/Briggs was terrible.) Adam used to have a really good show, but I honestly think he’s run out of things to talk about and is now just filling space.

  11. Lol- I knew you were gonna comment on R Kelly. I saw that video of him that was circulating Facebook, where he was shouting to the girls in the audience, asking if they wanted to go home with him and waving a big sign with the number 18, saying “all you gotta be is 18” (after the allegations) and thought BD would think this is fantastic.

    I don’t doubt that these women are more than happy to take part in all of this just to be with R. Kelly. Not to say some might not realize what they are actually getting into and eventually regret it and feel in over their heads but some probably love it.

    A lot of women love the whole alpha 1.0 thing. They LIKE men that are dominating and controlling, BOTH in and out of the bedroom. They get turned on when he gets jealous (to an extent). Many women are more than happy to call a man Daddy outside the bedroom if they like him enough.

    The vast majority of men I have been with would fall under the alpha 1.0 category. I can’t help it, that’s what I’m attracted to. A guy that doesn’t care who I’m sleeping with just isn’t as hot to me…

  12. There are Alpha 1.0s and then there are Alpha 1.0s..  You can be an Alpha 1.0 without dominating and using 15 year olds as sex slaves.  To be honest, an older guy screwing a 15 year old makes me sick. A girl is just too juvenile, both physically and mentally at 15. Although, some girls go through puberty faster. Once a girl is over 17 I believe she is fair game, but only if it is legal age of consent in that state or country.  

    R. Kelly’s whole daddy/daughter complex is also rather twisted in my opinion. However, there are plenty of older/younger relationships were the man is the authority figure but doesn’t pull off the freaky and twisted kind of stuff R. Kelly seems to do. Even though it may be kinky and fun in the short term to call a man daddy (to fulfill your twisted fetishes), I will say no woman (even a man) will respect and want to be in a serious relationship (even OLTR/MLTR) like that. Yes, for a FB, that would be a fine little fetish, but not a longer-term relationship. A woman wants a master, but not a father. There is a major difference. The whole father thing feels to incessant and creepy. A woman wants to be a princess or a queen, but being a little girl with a sex hungry daddy is just doesn’t bring true conjugal love or any real mutual respect.

    However, you can be an Alpha 1.0 without being a belligerent, angry control freak.  Men can mind-fuck women and have power, authority over them in many ways using ideology rather than just brute force.

    Many Alpha 1.0s throughout history were in positions where they had women having to prove their worthiness to the male, rather than constantly controlling them with an iron fist.  Basically, a hybrid of what you may think of Alpha 1.0 and Alpha 2.0..   Of course, once upon a time, there was a shortage of men and an unwed mother may be facing an uncertain life of doom, so the scenario today is different in most Western countries.   Third world countries still are usually male dominate and women generally will latch onto a man for support and liveliehood, even if he openly cheats and even has another wife/girlfriend on the side.  When I  was in Africa, polygamous marriages were very common.  Especially, when a man got older he would very often take a younger woman as a second or third wife. However, it seems much more natural and there wasn’t all this twisted and weird kind of dominance that people like R. Kelly and other famous drugged-out, emotionally deranged and drama-saturated music stars.

    In an ideal world, I believe that a man would have authority and power over his wife or wives.  In my religious ideology, a woman should be submissive and look to her husband as a king.  Back in the olden days, e.g., Jewish women addressed there husband as Adon (where the Latin word Don probably was derived), which means “Master”.    Wives would also submit and kneel before their husbands, make sure their food was cooked, pray for him and respect him as the authority next to God himself.     However, the man was still expected to be caring of his wife, respect her for her spirituality and wisdom and not be brutish or unfair.  Basically, it was a relationship of a king and a queen, where the king assumes the real power and authority, but the wife is not treated like a worthless slave as you would have in some other cultures.  Yet, the man still has the authority to control the man and like a General in the military you never question an order that has been given once the order is finalized.

    I consider myself a religious/spiritual Alpha 1.0.. Although, I am adopting to the society I live in and pretty much have accepted the Black Dragon’s Alpha 2.0 structure, as it really is the only feasible and sensible model for relationships, dating and sex in the Western World.

    In a perfect world, I would not mind have a nice harem of 3 or 4 wives who would be submissive and obey my authority.   The whole arrangement of having slave-girls who I beat, discipline and treat like little children or sex-slaves is very disconcerting to me.  You don’t have to have a master-slave type of relationship and be an Alpha 1.0.  It is pretty unhealthy relationship and will not gain you any deep respect or keep your harem flourishing.   Having a harem of wives or women is actually an art, in itself and many men from various cultures have very healthy polygamous relationships were there is mutual respect and the authority of the man is cherished rather than despised and reluctantly accepted.

    Basically, with a strong ideological influence, both women and the man (yes, the men too) can be educated and indoctrinated (if I can use that term) to follow a relationship model that is based on a strict set of rules and a code that must be followed and not broken.  It is the spiritual ideology that keeps these relationships solidified even through the obstacles of human emotion and the inevitable drama that arises in any long-term type of relationship.   In a society where men and  women are taught that a wife or concubine is to be obedient to their men as serving a higher and greater cause, will form the backbone to a healthy and prosperous marriage where the man assume authority, power and control over his wife or wives.

  13. A lot of women love the whole alpha 1.0 thing. They LIKE men that are dominating and controlling, BOTH in and out of the bedroom. They get turned on when he gets jealous (to an extent).

    Yes, FOR A WHILE. For a while, it’s really attractive to a woman. After a while, it drives her insane and she can’t stand it anymore. That’s why it’s so hard for Alpha 1.0’s to maintain long relationships; eventually the women get pissed off and leave once the jealous 1.0 shit gets old. And it always gets old (unless she’s a high-drama woman).

    The vast majority of men I have been with would fall under the alpha 1.0 category. I can’t help it, that’s what I’m attracted to.

    I know. That’s why you have so much drama in your relationship life.

    A guy that doesn’t care who I’m sleeping with just isn’t as hot to me…

    Right, you’d rather just get furious at him when you realize he’s been hiding activity with other women behind your back.

    Alpha 1.0 or Alpha 2.0; they’re both going to fuck other women, since Alpha Males don’t do monogamy. It’s just about how they go about doing it.

    You can be an Alpha 1.0 without dominating and using 15 year olds as sex slaves.

    Correct. That’s why I clearly said this was “hyper” and “extreme” Alpha 1.0 behavior, not normal 1.0 behavior.

    In a perfect world, I would not mind have a nice harem of 3 or 4 wives who would be submissive and obey my authority.

    Yeah, yeah, that’s what most men fantasize about. But that’s not the real world (at least not in the West).

  14. Yonatan’s comment was very interesting, until he started talking religion. Man, some of those things you said… I can’t wait for Jack’s reaction, I expect him to throw up multiple times when he reads your comment. Joelsuf should probably bring some popcorn too.

  15. Interesting perspective Lovergirl. I also don’t doubt that there are young women who are willing to enter R. Kelly’s world of rules. It makes me curious as to why because I know I’d never want to be around anyone like him from the sound of it. But I understand these women are allowed to want whatever they want.

    My ideal is a man that has a mix of alpha and beta qualities. He is confident, yet humble. Both strong and soft. Passionate about me, but never controlling or domineering.  Closed relationships work for me instead of open relationships because if he’s totally aloof about me and what I do with other men, then I will be totally aloof about him and want to move on to someone else who cares more. In other words, I’d want him to be faithful to me and expect me to be faithful to him, but he trusts that I am not going to screw around on him, so he’s cool with my decisions in what I do that he doesn’t have a role in. For example, he isn’t going to be uncomfortable or insecure if I go out one night to a friend’s bachelorette party, but he wouldn’t want me to be kissing all over someone else while I was out.

  16. Gil, if you read my comments thoroughly you would have seen that I used the words religion, spirituality or even ideology. The terms can be to some degree used interchangeably depending on your mindset and if you have a spirituality or at least a set of principles you abide by. You obviously are revolted by even slightest use of the term, but misunderstood what I was implying. My point was that any succeessful, long term relationship where the man has authority over his partner or partners (wives, concubines, girlfriends, etc) requires that both parties have some type of inherent belief, moral code or structure that would solidify their relationship. Basically, if people believe in following the rules and ethics of other people they are bound to fail. However, if they follow and are bound by a set of principles or a spiritulaity with a structured belief system they will be able endure the challenges of the relationship, since they are bound by something deeper than another human being.

    Sorry I’m typing on my phone and cannot convey everything I want to, but I hope I can shed a bit more depth into what point I was implying. If you take it as I am preaching for people to be religious than you have misunderstood or didn’t read what I wrote thoroughly.

  17. It called MK-Ultra/Project Monarch. He is a handler, the girls are his Beta ‘Kittens.’ At the same time, he probably has a handler and is somebody’s male ‘kitten.’ Look it up. It standard operating procedure in Hollyweird.

  18. QUOTE from Ash
    My ideal is a man that has a mix of alpha and beta qualities. He is confident, yet humble. Both strong and soft. Passionate about me, but never controlling or domineering. Closed relationships work for me instead of open relationships because if he’s totally aloof about me and what I do with other men, then I will be totally aloof about him and want to move on to someone else who cares more. In other words, I’d want him to be faithful to me and expect me to be faithful to him, but he trusts that I am not going to screw around on him, so he’s cool with my decisions in what I do that he doesn’t have a role in. For example, he isn’t going to be uncomfortable or insecure if I go out one night to a friend’s bachelorette party, but he wouldn’t want me to be kissing all over someone else while I was out.

    Ash, it sounds like you want the Submissive Alpha, which Black Dragon writes quite a bit about in many of his articles.  I actually found this article written by BlackDragon very sobering and eye-opening. It literally describes the fantasy male that most women keep dreaming about, but will never find.

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/06/25/womens-greatest-problem-the-myth-of-the-submissive-alpha-male/

    Sorry, but an Alpha male cannot be a mix of Alpha and Beta.. You are either an Alpha male or a Beta male.. It sounds like what you want is your fantasy Submissive Alpha, but what you will end up being most happy with is an Alpha Male 2.0.   However, you desire for a monogamous relationship in Western society is going to end in the typical depressing reality of most monogamous relationships.  Especially, with both people hanging out with other opposite sex friends and attending “bachelor/bachelorette” parties.

    Your fantasy Submissive Alpha is nothing but a large mix of contradictions.  You don’t want him to be domineering or controlling, yet you want him to be strong and confident.   As I can see, you are speaking in woman language. Basically, you want a man who is powerful, strong, courageous, but who will kneel before all your desires and respect all your wishes and never stand in your way of authority.   I am not sure if my male-translation of your female-minded discourse was 100% accurate, but I do feel my assessment is fairly accurate.

  19. Correct. That’s why I clearly said this was “hyper” and “extreme” Alpha 1.0 behavior, not normal 1.0 behavior.

    Ah, sorry BlackDragon I overlooked those terms you used.  I guess the terms “hyper” or “extreme” could definitely fit the profile of somebody like that.  Although, I guess in our society, some people equate dominating and authoritative Alpha 1.0 males as being slavemasters and twisted.  People like R Kelly seem to fit the stereotypes of ALpha 1.0 males these days and I feel it is quite a shame as there are many more varieties of Alpha 1.0, especially on the ethical scale.  But, I can definitely agree with you classifying him as a “Hyper” or “Extreme” and wish society would view people like him that way.  Sadly, people use those terms with people like me and I feel they are misconstrued.

    Yeah, yeah, that’s what most men fantasize about. But that’s not the real world (at least not in the West).

    Hahahah 😛  Hey, a man is still allowed to have a dream, right?    I am hoping by the time I am 50, I will be settled somewhere in a remote village in some exotic tropical land with my submissive, loyal and traditional wives 😀 😀

  20. Hey, a man is still allowed to have a dream, right?

    Dream, yes. Have real expectations and desires about what he could get that’s impossible, no.

    I am hoping by the time I am 50, I will be settled somewhere in a remote village in some exotic tropical land with my submissive, loyal and traditional wives

    The problem is I don’t think you’re kidding. You’re doing exactly what you warned Ash about regarding the Submissive Alpha; you really want something that can’t exist (in the Western world).

    (I’m pretty sure you were the same guy who once proposed flying to India, marrying an 18 year-old virgin there, and then flying her to rural Montana or something and keeping her away from everyone so you could make long-term monogamy work, so I’m not surprised you’re saying these crazy things.)

  21. Yonatan, read the link and it makes sense. Just not sold on the idea that you can stick men into one box so easily. I always gave the benefit of a doubt that men are more complex beings than being checked into a category of either beta or alpha as matter of factly as they are checked into being male vs female, could be wrong. I just know that I am coming up on my 10 year anniversary with my guy in our monogamous relationship and things are great.  I’ve been reading about beta and alpha male personalities for years, and I still can’t figure out which one he is, which I think is a good thing.

    He could be a bit more beta than alpha, and that’s fine with me. If I had to choose between a boring beta or an alpha that was more interesting yet infuriated me, I’d choose the boring beta.

     

  22. (I’m pretty sure you were the same guy who once proposed flying to India, marrying an 18 year-old virgin there, and then flying her to rural Montana or something and keeping her away from everyone so you could make long-term monogamy work, so I’m not surprised you’re saying these crazy things.)

    Your memory is impeccable, BlackDragon.  Yes, that was me..  However, I agree with your advice and have decided that living in rural Montana with a woman would not work.   Me wanting to live in rural Montana actually had nothing to do with women, but I figured if I had a wife or wives in another country, maybe for a short amount of time I could bring her with me there.  

    So, I have adjusted my plans and India is off my list. I am thinking of some other type of remote tropical paradise. In the worst case scenario, I could go to Volta region in Ghana and they will find me wives and give me some land, which is very common custom in this culture.   Of course, Africa is a tough place, especially with malaria and crappy medical care, constant power-outages, dangerous driving, corrupt police, etc.   It’s not on the top of my list of exotic tropical paradises, but then again, living a lonely, boring life in USA as a software developer isn’t what I call living in utopia either.

    Actually, I, myself would love to spend my summers in rural Montana or the rural Pacific Northwest where I am from.   This is irrespective of women.  I grew up in the mountains and love hiking and spending time meditating and enjoying the beauty of nature.  A man needs a break from the third world if he is living in such a rigorous environment.  I’ve spent half a year in the third world and know that permanently living there has its challenges, but if a man can make his way there, his lifestyle will be decent.   Nothing comes easy in this life, obviously and I am still trying to figure things out.

    As far as me looking for a Unicorn Princess in the USA, that won’t happen.  Any woman or women I marry will be in another country in a society and culture where women are expected to be submissive and loyal to their husbands.  I would never marry or have a monogamous relationship with a woman in this USA.. I am totally sold by the fact that it is doomed to fail and agree with everything you write about.

    I am in total 100% agreement with your Alpha Male 2.0 ideologies in regards to the Western world.  You will not find any argument from me and I actually have started to adopted most of your Alpha Male 2.0 teachings.  I am still learning and have a ways to go, but I would consider myself an Alpha 1.0 / Alpha 2.0 hybrid.  In the Western world I adopt the Alpha 2.0 system/ideology.  However, if I am back in my native environment, in a society where men are considered to be leaders, authority, superior in a conjugal type of relationship, then I switch to being an Alpha 1.0, which is more natural to me inherently.  

    I do believe inherently, most men want to be Alpha 1.0s and should be, but in a society such as ours, it is literally impossible and we must accept a different mindset like being an Alpha 2.0 which is much healthier and will prevent men from self-destructing themselves by either behaving in a natural Alpha 1.0 mindset or devolving into a beta-male and feeling like they must emasculate and submit themselves to female authority in order to find love and companionship.

    P.S. If you don’t want me posting any more comments, I will not.. Not sure if you blocked me from posting or if that is some bug in your system. Maybe I was posting too many messages too frequently on this thread.. My apologies, again.

  23. R. Kelly’s sex life sounds like a lot of work. My girls all call me “Daddy” too, except:

    I don’t ask them to do it.

    I don’t threaten them with punishment if they don’t.

    I didn’t look the word up in Fetlife to research the community-approved definition of “Daddy/Daddi”.

    I just fuck these girls, and they start calling me “Daddy” on their own #thugglife #alpha20life.

  24. @Ash: There are different variations of Alpha 1.0, beta and 2.0. You can think of the total loser beta who plays video games all day to the totally cool beta with ripped abs but who gets all flowery when he gets a woman and obeys almost her every command down the road. It’s pretty easy to put them in the category if you think of them as 3 categories. But there is no way you can get what you wish for. It really doesn’t exist.

    The coolest beta can be very good at his work and too submissive also to the point of being a slave to society instead of his dreams. The coolest beta will treat you like a queen during the date phase AND he will not care if you deny sex, he will still go out with you, even if he ends up in friendzone simply because you are rare to him. The 1.0 might treat you like a queen but will get angry most likely, throw some tantrum and leave you if you deny him the sex. A 1.0 will NEVER get himself into a friendzone situation. Also the 1.0 almost initiates drama all the time during the relationship, the beta gets the drama from the woman all the time and stays there and takes it.

    Also another way to understand men and know clearly in which category they fall into it is their they reaction when you dump them. A beta will play the victim and be the victim thereafter and ask for your forgiveness. The 1.0 will get angry, or play the victim at first but then will curse you and probably threaten you.

    What you want does not exist and what you describe is what almost what all women describe. They end up with a beta, because they falsely think the cool beta is confident and a leader at first, but when they get well into the relationship they realize how boring he is. The thing is beta is a good deal for you because you almost get everything from him, except two things. Excitement and good sex. So you end up in a zombie like relationship.

    Also what you have is it really a monogamous relationship? Or is it “monogamous”? Do you have sex 3-4 times per week, almost every week? If both answers are no then things are not great and you are lying to yourself or you are just both low sex drive. No Alpha will accept any less than 2 times per week for a prolonged time. He’ll cheat on you. The 2.0 accepts this fact and is sincere to you from the start. So he actually tells you “This is who I am, take it or leave it.”

    Because I think you are a dominant woman, you won’t be faring well with Alphas in relationships, but you’ll need to accept the fact that somehow you should be getting your excitement and sex from these guys.

  25. this is great. definitely learned the hard way on this one. happy about the clarification on the bdsm stuff. that can be such a temptation outside the bedroom just to see how far things can go.

    had a girl I was figuring out the dominance line with. an easy example was when I told her to hydrate a little extra before we meet up she replied with, “I’m always hydrating baby.” still in the happy phase but a gradually in the danger zone of too controlling. but when she saw how much I hydrated one morning before morning sex, she got really excited saying, “wow you’re really on top of the water game!” ( something like that after my third or fourth glass.)

    like I saw with others she was inspired by, she followed and was inspired by results, actions, and the qualies in others she wanted to have…not by the words that anyone said she SHOULD do…lest asked of course. (even then…)

    then there’s always the basic, I get the wine you get the snacks. she dug that. you eat mine, I lick yours.

    this post helped give me some clairvoyance in the relating matter.

  26. Sounds miserable.

    Caleb, thank you very much for providing the Alpha 2.0 blueprint. Of course I thanked you with cash…..I don’t use the online dating profile we worked on, but your underlying message of fun fun fun with younger women holds in meat space.

    I slept with an ex-LTR (not LSNFTE, we’re close) a couple weeks ago…..she was here 4 days, and had flirtations going…..I encouraged her to keep at it.  I had a previous oneitis in my bed, texting other guys, and I thought it hilarious…..and I made her cum hard.
    It’s good having a spy in the enemy camp. Guys are so fucking hungry. I could see a Provider Hunter being annoyed with me for being utterly uninterested in monogamy, but as far as I can tell, Alpha 2.0’s are actually filling an under-served niche for women who would very much like to be railed out well without obligation……..but also without being treated like shit (if anyone sees this comment and hasn’t read “Love Women” on this blog, do so now).

    Anyway, thanks again. I’m coming into my slut phase after a year of Monk Mode, 23 years of serial monogamy & a few months of lifting hard. I felt that if I jumped into another relationship immediately, all of the behaviors I had with my unicorn (and the 2 wives I had before her) would more or less transfer to the new woman. Instead, I refrained, made some male friends, cycled through behaviors until I settled on what works for me, read a lot of manosphere theory, posted a lot of comments, etc.

    Much of the manosphere is Alpha 1.0 oriented….even the Red Pill plate theory says you need to be open to an LTR….I simply am not…….MLTR? Sure. FB? Great. I’m not a Thrill of the Hunt guy, as far as I know….hell, I might be, I’ve always blundered into relationships, so I don’t even know. Classes start in 2 weeks. I did well in college as an unemployed loser in his late 30’s with a bit of a gut at the end of a terrible drama filled marriage, and dated a 19 y/o smokeshow at 39. As a mid 40’s Alpha 2.0 professional filling holes in my resume (and dodging student loan interest and billing the class to work), I should do fine. A cute girl in a finance class absolutely confirmed a Blackdragon fact: Never play down your age. Our professor brought up a “triangle distribution”…..I said GTFO, I never heard of that….she just gushed on about how cool it was that I engaged him on that level, I could have had her, but my girlfriend at the time was hotter and we were monogamous.

    Since I work remotely, I’ll just work from campus. I’m extroverted and being alone is driving me nuts. I like the Good Looking Loser’s guide for busy guys: 1) never leave the house unless you and it are looking great; 2) talk to a lot of people, including at least one attractive woman, and utter this line: “Would you like to join me for a drink tonight?”. 3) if she does or you’re already at the bar, invite her to my place for a nightcap (I always have cheese & wine) and 4) forget Game, just do it. After that, the Blackdragon management approach kicks in. Yeah, it might lose me lays, but all I need to do is fuck them once. My unicorn made me make her cum every time and use condoms. I’m well situated for new girls. They will come back for seconds.

    Sorry for banging on, but the appreciation is sincere, even though I know you’re motivated by money…..although to be quite honest you seem to get more annoyed with men than women. It’s like, “Here is an awesome way to live, why the fuck do you keep stepping into traps? Dipshits.” Anyway, between my career, classes, hobbies, and the necessities of taking care of my mid 40’s self, I have no time left for reading and posting. I’m headed to Seattle for a family visit…..after that, it’s game on.

    By the way…..the family member I’m visiting is Alpha 1.0 to the core…..he opened his relationship by simply fucking other women. His wife not only tolerates it, but had lost 75 pounds and stopped drinking. His SMV and frankly RMV are way higher than hers. He took the chance on being divorce raped, but it would have been stupid for her to do so. She’s better off staying right where she is.

  27. Thanks for the article

    Another case of a UK playboy getting older and monogamous, and suggesting western men should date Russian women. Thought about your recent articles when I read this 🙂

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4752706/Seduction-expert-says-men-date-Russian-women.html

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGN1yPew3FI

    If that guy really charges 500 per hour… you could make a killing if you went more public and posted lots of pics with hot girls and OLTR

    How about that Stefan Molyneux debate, any plans to make it?

  28. @BD,

    You could do sort of a small pocket book explaining all those crazy famous Alphas splits and weird behaviors.

    As you have analyzed a great deal of them through this blog, I think it could be: A) entertaining and B) a great warning to all those young studs who come up with “brilliant” ideas of how to make monogamy work for Alphas.

    Because if guys who are rich, powerful and famous fail miserably, what chances does the average Joe has?

  29. Should not insult Alpha 1.0’s by placing this guy in this category.  He is some sort of fucked up dude, barbarian from another age hyper asshole.  Unless you consider these men to be Alpha 1.0’s with a set overlap into the other groups he is more an example of narcissistic personality disorder with psychopathic personality traits.  One day we will find some screwed up stuff under the surface like the criminal, Silence of the Lambs type evil.

  30. Something cross my mind while I’m reading this post.
    I think this kind of Alpha 1.0 and their traits is what they(media, feminist, SJW, etc) really mean when they talk(accuse) about “Toxic” Masculinity. Hmm..

  31. @Ash

    You’re probably married to a guy BD refers to as a confident Beta.  And you’re certainly right that there’s some spectrum between alpha and beta in the real world.  Even alphas get emotionally needy, and betas can also be confident and highly competent in certain areas.  I guess probably the range of their sexual exploits and their overall emotional approach to women is the most accurate delineation.  And while you’re right that men as a whole are more complex than a binary system, the male sexual drive isn’t really.

     

    He could be a bit more beta than alpha, and that’s fine with me. If I had to choose between a boring beta or an alpha that was more interesting yet infuriated me, I’d choose the boring beta.

     

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/05/04/ignore-what-women-say-only-watch-what-they-do/

    I’ve heard a lot of women say something to this regard, and a great many of them either end up dating “jerks” anyway, or, they find an emotional crypillow boyfriend and then cheat on him quickly and often.  I’m not trying to accuse you of anything, but, rather highlight that if you’ve been in a committed monogomaous relationship for a decade happily….that puts you in an extreme minority in the western world.  For both men and women.

  32. Another case of a UK playboy getting older and monogamous, and suggesting western men should date Russian women. Thought about your recent articles when I read this

    As usual with these pro-Russian-women guys, they’re putting an overemphasis on appearance and completely ignoring the issues of happiness, drama, relationship harmony, and relationship longevity. Of course Russian women are hotter/skinnier on average than Western women! That’s not in dispute at all! The problem is Russian women are absolute nightmares in relationships, so a better solution is to focus on the small percentage of Western women who are still hot/skinny instead of focusing on a hot Russian who will be hot and an angry, demanding, dark, gold-digging bitch.

    you could make a killing if you went more public and posted lots of pics with hot girls and OLTR

    I know, and believe me, I’ve considered it. I’ve even spoken to some girls about doing it in the past. I determined that the social ramification for the girls and the legal risks to me weren’t worth it, but hell yeah, I’ve certainly thought about doing it more than once.

    How about that Stefan Molyneux debate, any plans to make it?

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2017/02/02/qa-various-updates-trt-sampson-etc/

    The bigger the ego, the stronger the control?

    The smaller the ego…

    You could do sort of a small pocket book explaining all those crazy famous Alphas splits and weird behaviors.

     

    As you have analyzed a great deal of them through this blog, I think it could be: A) entertaining and B) a great warning to all those young studs who come up with “brilliant” ideas of how to make monogamy work for Alphas.

    Haha. The “brilliant” idea of how to make monogamy work for Alphas always breaks down to the same thing: 1. Find a young girl who hasn’t fucked too many other men yet, 2. get serious/traditionally married, 3. be Alpha!

    And ta-da! Instant monogamy success forever! (It never actually works, but it sure sounds good!)

    Because if guys who are rich, powerful and famous fail miserably, what chances does the average Joe has?

    The catch is that the average Joe who is an Alpha 1.0 doesn’t actually care if his monogamous relationship fails later, as long as it’s much later. (Read this.) So if you warn him that he’ll probably get divorced in five or six years, he’ll just shrug and tell you that he’s happy now, so who cares?

    Should not insult Alpha 1.0’s by placing this guy in this category.

    As I’ve said twice now, I was very careful to say in the article that he wasn’t the typical Alpha 1.0, but a “hyper extreme” version.

  33. Hey BD is it really any different to the supergroups of the seventy’s Stones Zeppelin Deep Purple Bowie all the score of young girls that wanted to shag a rock star Only thing is they were in the sexual peak of there lives Jagger Bowie Jimmy Page etc Alpha males Only thing R Kelly does different he locks his young girls up plus he is a 50yr old male who has serious issues!!!

  34. I don’t even understand why these guys are called Alpha, especially the ones that practice serial monogamy.
    Willingness to “control” and “manipulate” someone sounds like just a sexy synonym for neediness, clinginess and oneintis – terms used to describe Betas.

    I agree. Alpha 1s are betas who are running from their insecurities by being try hards or acting like R Kelly. But unfortunately, PUAism and the voices surrounding it has re-established this kind of definition. These days I lump alpha 1s and betas together. The REAL pushovers are omegas. Those are the ones who are either too disabled to do anything about their lives, or who just drown in their insecurities.

    I think this kind of Alpha 1.0 and their traits is what they(media, feminist, SJW, etc) really mean when they talk(accuse) about “Toxic” Masculinity. Hmm..

    Judging from my chats with those types (either when on a date with one or otherwise), yeah that’s what they dislike. The 2.0 stuff that BD talks about they are either indifferent to it or are cynical of it because it messes with their narratives. Not every member of women’s movements are psychos like Milo Stewart who think that there is a giant conspiracy against anything that isn’t white and male.

  35. A reader says:

     

    The bigger the ego, the stronger the control?

    BD respondes:

     

    Thesmaller the ego…

    I want to add:

    Wait, it’s not so simple.

    I read somewhere that <i>You cannot protect yourself from ache without protecting yourself from happiness.</i>

    There is controlling moods… out of pure lust for the feeling of power (over other men, and women alike).

    There is controlling moods… because you see she’s loving and liking you less and less, and it makes you insane — and if you are brave enough to try your hand at real love, you’ll go insane before or later.

    There is anger and drama that the woman will rationalize as “controlling” but isn’t.
    I mean… when I started my most serious relationship, I laid out some rules.

    They weren’t about when she’d bathe. They were about essential pillars of my being.
    They were the things that were essential to my world… and must not be changed by someone who I let come into my world, lest the world itself be shook badly and its stability put in danger.

    BD writes “people, especially women, aren’t good at following rules.”

    Let’s be sincere: People, especially women, aren’t good at knowing who they are, what they want, thence they aren’t good at following rules, even rules they agreed with and on, even rules they happily agreed with and on. And you have to <b>manage</b> them like crowds, or children, are to be managed.

    So,  about having a smaller ego, no!

    Controlling (jealousy), the smart type not like this mindless celebrity this blog post deals with, is about a <i>scared ego</i>.

    And, I dare say, the bigger the ego, the bigger will be its joys when it is the time for joy, but also fears in times of fear.

    This aside, it’s not about ego size, but about ego toughness. A soft ego is more vulnerable (and open to both joy and pain), a hardened one is little-to-zilch vulnerable.

    The Alpha 2.0’s “happiness” is a brave, bold, smart, way to survive the crudeness of our radical loneliness on this earth.
    It’s a survival strategy.
    The way to make your life the least bad.
    Calling it “happiness” is kind of tricky…

  36. The so called Alpha 1.0 narrative is really someone who is has beta tendencies(control, lack of self control, insecurity).  The so called Alpha 2.0 is someone who has cuckold tendencies(justifies there inability to manage a women by saying they really don’t care if she has sex with another man).  This justification stems from the false belief that no women would ever love and be faithful till death do them part.

     

    There is just Alpha.

    The 50 yo apex alpha can have a long term relationship with a faithful wife along with wonderful kid’s and have beautiful women who are in there 20’s on the side.

    The beta’s say this is not possible and thus never will reach their true potential.

     

    Truth Hurts

     

  37. The 50 yo apex alpha can have a long term relationship with a faithful wife along with wonderful kid’s and have beautiful women who are in there 20’s on the side.

    That depends on how old the “faithful wife” is. If she’s over 60, then I agree with you. If she’s a hottie in her 20’s – 40’s, then you’re wrong. She will cheat and/or divorce your ass at some point, particularly if she knows/suspects you’re banging people on the side and she’s not allowed to do the same.

    (Unless you can show statistical evidence to prove what you’re saying, which I know you can’t.)

  38. “That depends on how old the “faithful wife” is.”

    False.  A long term relationship say 25-30 years is not going to result in a 20-40 yo wife.  LOL, do the math.  She started as a 7+ grew into a 10 and now is a 7 because of age.

       “She will cheat and/or divorce your ass at some point, particularly if she knows/suspects you’re banging people on the side and she’s not allowed to do the same.”

    False again.  I know this hurts your narrative but you don’t understand how many men have said my life is not possible.  In fact she respects me more since I got the balls to go out and do my own thing every so often.

    “(Unless you can show statistical evidence to prove what you’re saying, which I know you can’t.)”

    Statistical evidence?  Straw man.  Never limit yourself Blackgragon.

  39. Hi BD,

    Remember there are always going to be outliers. People who are turned on by things that most people can’t relate to. One of these is so-called ‘Lifestyle Fetishism’ where people want to control, or be controlled 24/7, not just as part of sexual play.

    I’ve even met a woman who registered with a site that issues ‘slave registration’ numbers, and has contracts you can print out and get your woman to sign, where she contracts to be your slave. She had here slave registration number tattooed on her body in a discrete place. She said she was looking for a permanent owner who would put a special kind of collar on her neck that the fetish community uses to identify slaves and their owners.

    I can also tell you that owning a woman as a slave is a lot of work, and it’s quite frankly annoying if managing a slave doesn’t turn you on. You have to have this as your fetish if you want feel rewarded owning one of these women.

    I think this Kelley guy is one of these types. He’s not a conventional guy, who is aroused and motivated by the kinds of things most guys are, and the concepts of alpha/beta may not even apply. People are mistaking his fetishistic domineering behavior for the leadership and dominance that genuine alphas display.

    OTOH, one of the most successful long-term relationships I would say I’ve ever seen is that of a guy who calls himself a Gorean, and has 2 Gorean slaves (called Kajirae, based on the form of slavery described in the Chronicles of Gor series of novels by John Norman.) He took ownership of his first slave in 1983, and then his second Kajira came on board in 1985. These women still wear things like the Gorean camisk, take up the Nadu position when he comes home (here’s a girl wearing a camisk in Nadu position: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/31/e1/f4/31e1f43a2fa036f07850231b2bb2d08e.jpg )

    They’re all pushing 60 now, but they still have as much sex as people in that age bracket can, including with visiting Gorean friends. All 3 of them are great people, they seem genuinely happy and to like each other. I’d call this a LTR success. How many married people have a relationship that lasts for 35 years, where they love each other, and is still filled with sex?

    Sometimes we can learn from those who go completely outside the norms of society . . .

  40. Statistical evidence?  Straw man.

    A request for statistical evidence is literally anti-straw man.

    Never limit yourself Blackgragon.

    This is how women talk when they are very attracted to (yet also slightly intimidated by) a man.

  41. I know this hurts your narrative but you don’t understand how many men have said my life is not possible.

    I never said that. I don’t know enough about your relationship to say if it’s impossible or not. But, if you’re saying that you bang women on the side for decades, and your wife knows/suspects you’re doing it, and she’s never gotten sexual with any other men on the side and thinks this is all perfectly fine and this is a Western marriage with a Western woman, then I’m saying your relationship is a very bizarre exception to the rule, not the result of any particular techniques you did, attributable mostly to luck, and thus not easily repeatable by another man. If it was, the book on exactly how to do such a thing in the Western world would have been written long ago and the writer would now be a billionaire.

    Now, if your wive has gotten sexual with other men besides you during your marriage in the past, even if she tried to hide it from you and you hated it, that would be more typical.

    Statistical evidence? Straw man.

    Annnnnnd you just blew your entire argument to shit. Thanks for playing.

  42. Remember there are always going to be outliers.

    I have said that literally thousands of times. That there are always exceptions to the rule, and that the exceptions prove the rule.

    I think this Kelley guy is one of these types. He’s not a conventional guy, who is aroused and motivated by the kinds of things most guys are, and the concepts of alpha/beta may not even apply.

    That’s not relevant if he’s regularly getting pissed off at his slaves when they’re nice to other men, as Kelly does.

    A system that regularly creates unhappiness in your life is not a valid system in my view, regardless of what you call it.

    They’re all pushing 60 now, but they still have as much sex as people in that age bracket can, including with visiting Gorean friends. All 3 of them are great people, they seem genuinely happy and to like each other. I’d call this a LTR success.

    They’re not monogamous so it’s not an LTR, but I get your point.

    How many married people have a relationship that lasts for 35 years, where they love each other, and is still filled with sex?

    Ones who aren’t monogamous. 🙂

  43. ” I never said that. I don’t know enough about your relationship to say if it’s impossible or not. But, if you’re saying that you bang women on the side for decades, and your wife knows/suspects you’re doing it, and she’s never gotten sexual with any other men on the side and thinks this is all perfectly fine and this is a Western marriage with a Western woman, then I’m saying your relationship is a very bizarre exception to the rule, not the result of any particular techniques you did, attributable mostly to luck, and thus not easily repeatable by another man. If it was, the book on exactly how to do such a thing in the Western world would have been written long ago and the writer would now be a billionaire.”

    You are very good at making simple things complicated.  You just blew your credibility for being intellectually honest to shit.  I know your reading comprehension is not that bad.  Here is what I wrote…

    “The 50 yo apex alpha can have a long term relationship with a faithful wife along with wonderful kid’s and have beautiful women who are in there 20’s on the side.”

    Stated age, stated marriage has been long term, stated wife had been faithful, stated kids were close and loyal, stated beautiful 20 something women on the side which have happened recently.

    Again I don’t think your reading comprehension is that bad just the cognitive dissonance.

  44. “A request for statistical evidence is literally anti-straw man.”

    Generally speaking I agree.  Unfortunately I can only show what I have done and taught others.  My feeling is that statistical sampling would prove beyond a doubt that most men are directed to think that my teachings are not possible and thus never achievable.

    “This is how women talk when they are very attracted to (yet also slightly intimidated by) a man.”

    LOL, nice try.  Never has a women spoke to me like that.  I did recently have a 9, who I have been ignoring, say that she would find 20 somethings for me to date.  Never had that happen before.   This particular 9 has men falling over her everyday.  She is 31 and basically begging me to be her friend which I have declined.

  45. They’re not monogamous so it’s not an LTR

    Hmmm,

    Definition question: I’ve always used the term Long Term Relationship for any sexual relationship of any kind (eg. mono, poly, fetishist) that lasts more than about 6 months.

    Do most people use the term to mean a monogamous relationship?

    Also, what time frame do most people think constitutes Long Term?

  46. Do most people use the term to mean a monogamous relationship?

    Yes. I’ve never heard a person use the term LTR with the expectation that either partner was allowed to have sex with others.

    I do as well. LTR = monogamous. OLTR = serious, committed, emotionally exclusive (girlfriend or wife) but nonmonogamous to a degree. Etc.

    Also, what time frame do most people think constitutes Long Term?

    No idea. To me long-term means any relationship that lasts, or is expected to last, more than three years. Below three years is “short-term” (serial monogamy, etc).

    I place another “level” at “extremely” long term, which is ten years or more.

  47. Sorry for banging on, but the appreciation is sincere, even though I know you’re motivated by money…..although to be quite honest you seem to get more annoyed with men than women. It’s like, “Here is an awesome way to live, why the fuck do you keep stepping into traps? Dipshits.”

    That’s not inaccurate. It’s men who determine the direction for their relationships, there lives, and even of society. If there’s a problem with these things, the finger should first be pointed at men, not women.

  48. Great article BD!  I couldn’t agree more about the moral panic we’re having about young women having sex!  Being into BDSM myself I do disagree with you about one thing:

    When you seek to control a woman’s (or women’s) life like this, you have to take the good with the bad. The bad is that you’ll have to constantly argue with, lecture, correct, and “punish” these girls whenever they don’t do what you want, which they won’t, because that’s not how women work, particularly women who are young and hot.

    I relish having a hot, young, submissive woman who does whatever I want.  But I enjoy castigating, correcting, and  punishing them just as much.  When I tie them up, yell at them, and paddle them until they cry it makes me hard as a rock.  Many people into BDSM that have Dom/sub relationships have a sadistic streak as well.  As long as it’s consensual then it’s all good.  In extreme cases (probably like Kelly’s) the woman still has a safeword.  But is told ahead of time that as soon as she uses it that it’s the end of the relationship.

    I refuse to argue with them though.  The first time they get mouthy I soft next them.  If they try to argue with me again the immediately get hard nexted.  The ones with big mouths weed themselves out.  Usually after I’ve sampled the goods.

    From my experience you’re right that relationships which are structured this way generally last for less then a year.  But I doubt R. Kelly cares since he can quickly and easily replace these women.  Even for an average guy into 24/7 bdsm these relationships can be so intoxicating that we’re more then happy to accept the shorter then average lifespan to be able to get exactly what we want in exchange.

  49. I fucking love R Kelly, and i have to agree with Leon on this one. This is BDSM stuff.
    But i get your point in general though.

  50. Hey BD, thanks for the update on LTR terminology. You learn something new every day.

    Concerning this:

    If there’s a problem with these things, the finger should first be pointed at men, not women

    An old timer from the Maritime Provinces of Canada said something to me I’ve never forgotten:

    “When you point your finger at someone, there’s three fingers pointing right back at you.”

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