I’m about to delve into a very complex topic that varies wildly based on the city/state/province and country in which you reside. There is no way I can be comprehensive or even accurate in a generalized article like this directed at a worldwide audience. 

Instead, I’ll give you a basic overview on how to manage the legal aspects of when you have an OLTR Marriage. Please, please, please refer to a family or divorce attorney where you live if you have any questions on this topic. He will be able to help you in ways I can’t; anything he says will override anything I say on this topic. Again, the laws vary too much. 

The first aspect you need to address when you live with a woman is, if possible, to ensure that the living together aspect does not become a legal marriage, common law marriage, or what is considered a “marriage-like relationship.” I said if possible because in many, perhaps most cities in the left-wing Collapsing West, pretty much any time you live with a woman full-time for more than a few years will automatically be considered a relationship like this no matter what you sign. 

Regardless, you need to determine if this is an option where you live, then sign the legal paperwork with you and your OLTR wife that signifies this. When you sign anything, you need to get it notarized. Any signatures with both of your names on it won’t be enforceable otherwise. 

If you live in a region where this isn’t possible, then you need to either A) move to another city before you move in with a woman; B) plan on kicking her out of your house right before the relationship becomes a de facto marriage (and make sure she knows this is the plan); C) go ahead and let the relationship become a de facto marriage but make sure you enact numerous other safeguards well before she ever moves in with you (which may be less effective and will cost more money in legal and banking costs). The choice is yours.

The point is to be informed and have a well-thought-out plan BEFORE she moves in with you. For fuck’s sake, don’t be like every other moron who just moves in with a woman without evaluating all of these aspects. 

The next thing to address is something most jurisdictions call “communal property.” Communal property (CP) is any assets that are considered both you and your wife’s. If you split up, all CP is split 50/50 between you and her, regardless of who owned it before the marriage or who earned it during the marriage. In most jurisdictions, this will be done even if you’ve signed a prenuptial agreement or similar document. It’s very hard to find a way around a 50/50 split of CP. 

However, what you can do (in some jurisdictions) is carefully define all (or most) of your assets and earnings as individual property or personal property (PP) instead of communal property. If you split up, she will receive 50% of your CP but she can’t get any of your PP, and the same is true with her (you won’t be able to get any of her PP). Of course, there can be many exceptions to this based on the scenario, legal paperwork, and regional laws. 

The goal is to assign all of your current and future assets (or at least as much as is allowed in your region) as PP, and either have no CP or a very tiny pool of CP that you don’t mind losing half of in a divorce. Your legal paperwork will define all of this.  

Next, you need to make sure your legal paperwork absolves you of any and all alimony or palimony. Interestingly, this is usually the easiest part, though not always. Some places, like California, will force you at gunpoint to pay your ex-wife alimony for the rest of her life if you were married for more than ten years even if you both signed a prenup. (Men who get legally married in places like this are either tremendously reckless or flat-out insane. I laugh hysterically every time I see a pick-up artist or red pill guy in California get legally married, and I’ve seen it many times.) 

Child support can’t be avoided no matter what you do. If you make kids with her, you’re going to pay child support no matter what. That should be something you budget before you ever impregnate a woman, as I discussed here. Just realize in most parts of the West, there is no magical document you can sign that forever protects you from paying child support. If the mother pushes the issue, you’re going to pay it or go to jail.

Next, you need to engage in asset protection. This is the legal practice of protecting your assets so your wife can’t take them away from you in case of a break-up or divorce. This is done using things like corporations, trusts, family members, creative investing, stateless assets, paperless assets, and offshoring your assets to distant countries far away from your wife’s reach. Asset protection is a huge topic and beyond the scope of this article, but the point is that a massive layer of asset protection is required in addition to all of the legal paperwork you sign with your wife.  Just getting a prenup and calling it a day is not going to do it.

Too many guys get prenups (or similar paperwork) but then do the usual thing of owning a house, a small business, and a 401k or IRA in their own names. They don’t actually protect anything. Then they get a divorce and the wife (with the help of our anti-man legal system) plows through his paperwork and she takes everything. Don’t make this mistake. Asset protection is required in an OLTR Marriage. 

Next, you need to enforce a forever separation of finances. This is something I’ve talked about at great length many times before. This simply means that you don’t ever have any shared assets, debts, accounts, or leases with your wife. Everything is either in her name or your name. Nothing is in both of your names. 

I love these idiots who move in with their girlfriends, refuse to marry her and think they’re being smart, then buy a house with her. NO! The house, just like everything else, needs to be 100% hers or 100% yours. Share everything with your wife, but co-own nothing with her. 

Moreover, this must always be the case. If you start out with all finances separate but then you get complacent a few years in and start combining things, you destroy all protections of having things separate, and now everything possibly becomes CP. Very bad. 

Those are the basics. As I’ve said before, I’m legally barred from discussing anything I have done legally or financially with my marriage to Pink Firefly so I can’t and won’t answer any of those questions in the comments, but I’m happy to answer general questions on this topic. It’s an important one. 

And I’ll repeat one key item that bears repeating: Do not move in with a woman under a romantic context until you are at least 35 years old. Otherwise YOU ARE STUPID. You can certainly see how complicated this stuff is and you’re not ready to do it if you’re a young guy.

32 Comments on “Legalities of an OLTR Marriage

  1. Do you ever suggest getting a second cheap property, e.g. a small condo in a cheap area of town and then claiming you don’t live together officially?

    Or if each person already owns property under their own name in the same city and keeps it that way after moving in together, would you not avoid having to split assets in the event of a break up?

  2. I laugh hysterically every time I see a pick-up artist or red pill guy in California get legally married, and I’ve seen it many times.

    I love these idiots who move in with their girlfriends, refuse to marry her and think they’re being smart, then buy a house with her. NO!

    With 10+ years of manosphere/red-pill content on the internet you would think that most guys would learn to be smart with women in relationships by now, but it seems like most men are still slow to learn even in today’s information age where they have all the necessary information to get ahead in life at their fingertips.

    Do not move in with a woman under a romantic context until you are at least 35 years old. Otherwise YOU ARE STUPID. You can certainly see how complicated this stuff is and you’re not ready to do it if you’re a young guy.

    I’m a young guy and I see it. I personally don’t plan on ever having a relationship or moving in with a woman under a romantic context primarily because my brain isn’t wired to for pair bonding, only for sex (and I hope it stays this way for my own good). Secondarily, I think the effort and money involved in setting up the legal protections for a romantic move-in with a woman is not worth the potential “emotional reward” of moving in with a woman (I am assuming the emotional reward is why most men move in with women).

  3. Child support can’t be avoided no matter what you do

    Not always true. Several states have passed legislation stating that child custody and child expenses are to be split automatically 50/50 unless there is good reason not to (like abuse, alcoholism, etc)

    In my state “support” only comes into play if custody is not 50/50 or there is below poverty level income for the custodial parent, and even then the courts are instructed to keep support obligation in line with actual expenses as much as possible…with judges retaining the right to make changes for “the welfare of the children” as they deem appropriate.

    Child support and child expenses are not the same thing. I am divorced, with 50% custody. I pay no child support, but pay 50% of child expenses that benefit the child 100% of the time (medical care, dental care, health insurance, school sport equipment, etc.)

    In other words I pay 50% of legit expenses…way different than some made up BS support obligation. I usually have to write the ex a check for about $150 a month.

    A good friend of mine is a hot shot divorce attorney and he keeps track of nationwide law changes. He says the family/divorce court system has changed dramatically in the last 5 or so years to be more equal. (Still has a long way to go obviously)

  4. @Redbaron

    “With 10+ years of manosphere/red-pill content on the internet you would think that most guys would learn to be smart with women in relationships by now, but it seems like most men are still slow to learn even in today’s information age where they have all the necessary information to get ahead in life at their fingertips.”

    Yes you would think this given the ease of finding this info and how much it has proliferated over the past several years.  Many men prefer to live in blissful ignorance I think and even knowing all this, want to go back to their old ways because they place high value on external/social validation.  Also, it’s the path of least resistance and is just easier to go along with-you get all the pats on the back and accolades guys that are more 2.0 won’t get.

    Other men just don’t even want to know this information and think they’re Superman, Alpha enough, etc.. and can control their women in some way.

    Still others are blinded by Oneitis and think they can’t live without this woman, regardless of how bad the deal becomes.  These are your typical corporate drone types that have no real mission in life and just go on auto-pilot through all the stages society tells you to go through.

  5. This goes to show you that marriage is first and foremost a FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENT.

    And at this point I’d say sex is almost wholly financial too.

    I have seen every kind of relationship go south.

    There worst one’s are when the couple are syrupy sugary in love. Those women are the first to cheat and bail.

    The others are the ones who believe in soul mates.

    When you corner them and ask them for a definition of the magical soul mate they always respond with some illogical bullshit by saying our souls have multiple soulmates or the next one will be the one. It’s absolute bullshit that sells pop psychology and new age books and intelligent people buy into it.

    Young guys, under thirty-five, who think that your wife or girlfriend will always be there and you do not need to listen to this. Yours will be the worst breakups. You have made a terrible error.

  6. Child support can’t be avoided no matter what you do. If you make kids with her, you’re going to pay child support no matter what. That should be something you budget before you ever impregnate a woman, as I discussed here.

    I disagree.  I have two children with the ex wife.  Her and I live in a state that requires a judge to evaluate child support for every case.  In other words, neither party can “decline” child support.  The state forces it.  I do not pay a dime of child support.  How?  Well I received shared/joint 50/50 custody of our children.  It just so happens at the time, we made nearly the same income, so no child support could be issued.  If I made a lot more money than her, I would get stuck paying very minimal child support to balance things out, but 50/50 custody is the only fair way to do child support.

    Coincidentally, the point of divorce is when I slowly began becoming Alpha 2.0.  It started with me researching how to get her back.  Essentially, don’t beg for her back, clean up, look sharp, make lots of plans, stay busy, and when she asks questions, be vague and make her start guessing and thinking.  This worked.  She wanted me back, but things changed.  I was becoming Alpha 2.0.  I ended up realizing I didn’t want her back.  However she wanted me back so bad, she agreed to do the entire divorce and custody with one lawyer and do it all fair and 50/50.  I would suggest if you are getting divorced, to do what I did.  Get her to want you back.  It may not work especially if you’ve already cried and begged for her back.  But literally appearing to have a fulfilling busy life to the point you no longer give a shit about her, while looking sharp and new every time she sees you will likely pull her back.  You may think she’s probably regretting her decision these days, she’s married to a new man and living a blended family life, but she brags about how she is a good woman who knows her children need their father just as much as their mother.  I’ve been divorced 7 years now.  It’s pretty much peaceful between us.

  7. @Hollywood: do they only take income into account or could you get screwed for having more assets/savings than your wife at the time of divorce (even if you earned same as she earned for most of the relationship/marriage)?

    Every time an article like this comes out, I’m even more resolved never to move in with anyone lol. But biology’s a bitch, you never know. At least right now I don’t even feel the need for an oltr, let alone a live-in oltr. I’ll do this if, like, I have so much time and energy on my hands that I can literally become a legal nerd in cohabitation and divorce. Unlikely to happen, especially that I’ve always hated all kinds of paperwork anyway.

  8. This goes to show you that marriage is first and foremost a FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENT.

    And at this point I’d say sex is almost wholly financial too.

    Sex much is pretty much a financial/temporal/effort-based transaction 98% of the time, and has been that way since the beginning of dawn (there are always those 2% of the time exceptions where the girl wants sex just for the sex, but those are the exceptions and the exceptions prove the rule). That’s why prostitution is referred to as the “world’s oldest profession”. Marriage, IMO, is a perverted and more inefficient form of prostitution. If you think about it, dating is a fairly recent invention, only gaining mass popularity in the early 20th century (around the time a lot of US states started making prostitution illegal).

  9. there are always those 2% of the time exceptions where the girl wants sex just for the sex, but those are the exceptions and the exceptions prove the rule

    Even if it were only two percent, that’s not bad. Go and find them. If you live in a city with a million women, that’s 20,000.

  10. Regarding legally getting out of child support or some child support, of course there are always odd exceptions to that rule, but you guys know what I always say about making your argument based on the unusual exception to the rule, right?

    Do you ever suggest getting a second cheap property, e.g. a small condo in a cheap area of town and then claiming you don’t live together officially?

    Yep, you can do something like this if you really want to. I’ve heard of a few guys doing this.

    Or if each person already owns property under their own name in the same city and keeps it that way after moving in together, would you not avoid having to split assets in the event of a break up?

    No. Both of your property instantly becomes communal property in a traditional marriage or marriage-like relationship… unless you do what I recommend in the article.

    With 10+ years of manosphere/red-pill content on the internet you would think that most guys would learn to be smart with women in relationships by now

    Yes. You would think. But sadly that isn’t how human beings work. It’s sort of amazing.

    This goes to show you that marriage is first and foremost a FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENT.

    Correct.

    And at this point I’d say sex is almost wholly financial too.

    Incorrect. Around 90% of all of my past relationships with women (scores of them over the past 13 years) had zero financial component.

  11. there are always those 2% of the time exceptions where the girl wants sex just for the sex, but those are the exceptions and the exceptions prove the rule

    What the hell? No. Incorrect.

    Where is this bullshit coming from?

  12. After checking out this article, I feel like my mother running out on my dad and I before I entered high school was a blessing now.

    There is no chance in a cold hell that I will ever get married. I can still see visions of how depressed and bitter my dad was after his divorce. He was just not the same. Even at that age I knew that there was no way I could ever benefit from being married.

    Although I try not to be too cynical about chicks, it is very difficult to trust them after witnessing them take advantage of a lot of the more important dudes in my life – and gleefully, might I add.

    I always thought marriage (especially TMM) was antiquated beyond belief anyways. God save any dude who is foolish enough to get married or who are married going into the 2020s, people I know included lol.

  13. @Hollywood: do they only take income into account or could you get screwed for having more assets/savings than your wife at the time of divorce (even if you earned same as she earned for most of the relationship/marriage)?

    Yes assets are split 50/50, no getting around that other than if she agrees on forfeiting it, but things like owned property, homes, vehicles have to be split 50/50 by the courts, or the overall asset total has to be divided equally.  Mine wasn’t necessarily equal, but we just agreed on everything we were splitting and signed paperwork saying it was equally divided.  The home had to split evenly and there was no getting around that.  In my case I owned it soley in my name and the loan was in my name, so I had to pay her half of the equity and kept the house.

  14. Perhaps you are just leaving out details, but this article goes against everything I’ve learned over the years.  Community property is what was acquired after the marriage started.  Separate property is what each person had the day before the marriage.  So, all you need is a list of your assets before the marriage.  Signed/agreed, of course.  Keep your banking separate.  No joint accounts.

    If you have a house, this is yours after the divorce.  But, you need to structure it like it’s a rental business.  Be careful that you make all the tax, mortgage and maintenance payments.  If she contributes to any of this, a lawyer could claim part of the equity is rightfully hers.  She should be paying rent with a lease agreement to live in your house.  There should be some sort of room mate like agreement that spells out how much each of you will pay for living expenses.    She should be paying her share of utilities, food, etc.

    If you help her with expenses, you should structure that as a loan with interest and payback terms.  Signed/agreed, of course.  Then later it will count against any asset split.  Otherwise anything you give her is a gift, which you assume you will never get back.  If it turns out she’s a good girl and the split up is friendly, you can always forget about the loan and call it a gift.  But if you don’t do it right you won’t have the option.

    Retirement accounts are always separate property so long as she never contributes a dime.  You are keeping banking separate, right?  Inheritances are always separate.

  15. First let me say that Blackdragon has solid advice if you want to get married especially OLTR married if you are a man living in the 1st world nations especially the West and most of all the USA. However it is a bad idea to get married. First an increasing number of states are like California in that they are becoming ever more misandric, against men. Even if you avoid the most misandric states to be married in, that does not mean that the rules and laws and enforcement of them won’t change and became as bad or worse than California. Keep in mind that as long lost commenter Jack Outside the Box, former divorce attorney, said that marriage and child support are courts of equity and not courts of law according to my memory. There is the Duluth model in which you can count more often than not on any accusation of harrassment or abuse being charged by a woman against the man will have the police remove the man from the home in a domestic dispute even if he owns the property, mortgages the property and rents or leases the property where he resides.  That briefly deals with the legal and financial aspect of it.

     

    Let us move on to the emotional/psychological aspect. It is better for a man to have only FBs or at least 2 MLTRs.. The emotional sense of loss can not occur or is almost nothing because their is little to no emotional attachment to the women because they are only FBs meant for sexual physical gratification and practice IF an MLTR leaves, while it is devastating to lose the emotional connection, needs and wants , it will be mitigated because the other MLTR is still giving you as a man emotional connection, needs and wants. You can have a failed OLTR relationship and many FBs satisfying your physical but not emotional needs, and although not quite as bas as a monogamous relationship that is finished, it is still emotionally devastating to most if not all men.

    There should be another reason besides I want an better stronger deeper emotional connection with a woman before getting into an OLTR especially an OLTR marriage or even monogamous especially monogamously married even though I still think it is a mistake to become OLTR or monogamous with any woman for myself and almost all men.  One reason to do it is what Jack Outside the Box wanted to do and that is to have children and at least try to raise them properly or at least semi-properly. It is better for the children for the father to try to be around financially, emotionally etc. if the father stays in the relationship. A better reason is why Blackdragon is doing it in my opinion even though he never explicitly said so which I will state at the end. Women have a tendency to be an emotional, financial and time suck and if they didn’t have vaginas, mouths, anuses, hands and breast cleavage we men like our penises to ejaculate into or on then we would even more drastically limit our relationships with them. As the late great standup comic Patrice O’Neal said, “what would you ladies do if you did not have vaginas? How would you get your man? How would you keep your man?” Blackdragon probably truly loves Pink Firefly and wants a deeper, stronger and better emotional connection with her, but let us not delude ourselves in that she is not the emotional, financial and time suck on him that most women would be which allows him to concentrate more fully on his mission and make more money and be able to leave the USA faster and better than he would be able to do so otherwise, and I truly believe that he fully knows, understands and is self aware of this.

  16. As the late great standup comic Patrice O’Neal said, “what would you ladies do if you did not have vaginas? How would you get your man? How would you keep your man?”

    They wouldn’t. They would probably need to be sugar mamas to pay men to hang out with them. Japan is often a good place to explore such what ifs because honestly almost everything happens there and this is no exception. Look up “Host Club” – it is where (usually older rich) women go to hang out with handsome and fashionable men.

    The emotional sense of loss can not occur or is almost nothing because their is little to no emotional attachment to the women because they are only FBs meant for sexual physical gratification and practice IF an MLTR leaves

    Unfortunately this does not work so well for me. FB leaving if she was my fav in terms of good sex its hugely emotionally devastating for me. MLTR leaving is def not IF, it happens all the time, especially if she knows shes one of your girls and its clear you have no intention of making her a gf. If she doesn’t know she often leaves because you didn’t give her what she thought she wanted or because of some vague stuff like “we don’t have that much in common” or “idk, it kinda feels different now, lol bye” …. that is pretty much women these days in a nutshell and it doesn’t matter how many months or even years you spent together or what you did for her if she feels like she wants something else she usually leaves without offering to find a replacement and without giving a notice period.

    Regarding legally getting out of child support or some child support

    This is probably legally shady, but it is near impossible for her to do anything about it, legally: If you are doing the flags system you live in a country that isnt your citizenship country. If you also are not attached to stay in that country and dont keep finances there which again is as per flag system then you can just leave the country. Good luck getting you to pay the child support then. It is not likely she can even if find you and it is not like there is interpol for civil cases like this or something. However, the morality of it is questionable because it is your child after all. No matter what you think about the woman or what she did wrong, imagine the child finds you one day and you have to explain why you left it behind with no support and no recognition. Still, it is good to know one can always just leave the country if something unexpected happens and you are in a situation where you really cannot pay.

  17. One reason to do it is what Jack Outside the Box wanted to do and that is to have children and at least try to raise them properly or at least semi-properly. It is better for the children for the father to try to be around financially, emotionally etc. if the father stays in the relationship.

    This is irrelevant. You can just have FBs on the side which will not take much of your time or energy or money. Anyway, even as a good father and husband its not like you’re not allowed to have hobbies so even if you spend many hours a week with FBs and have to pay them since they are sugar babies its just your hobby lets say. If you can afford it on top of providing for your family and giving the children good education and nice holidays I do not see how this makes any difference whatsoever. The whole point of FB / sugar babies is that they are on the side and you don’t get deeply involved, its no different than for example playing tennis on weekends with your buddies. In fact it can be beneficial for the relationship and family since it puts less pressure on the wife to have to satisfy you on daily basis (and thus take her time and energy away from the kids…). Of course one needs to be able to afford this and one should not have romantic side girlfriends in this situation.

    OLTR especially an OLTR marriage or even monogamous especially monogamously married even though I still think it is a mistake to become OLTR or monogamous with any woman for myself and almost all men.

    Living with a woman has many advantages. Some guys just really like it, others just want the constant sexual availability any time (you don’t live with a woman who isn’t like that, that would be absurdly insane). There is no reason to be monogamous though, I agree. NonMonogamous doesn’t have to mean you have 5 other girls that you see every single week, it can just be that if you chose to you can always find someone and you don’t need anyones permission and its not cheating – for that there is no reason not to have such arrangement with your girl. The only time a guy will object to this is saying he would do that so she doesn’t get to do that also but then he forgets if a woman wants to do that she will cheat or leave you anyway and if she doesn’t want to do that she wont do it even if “she can”, so being mono or not is irrelevant for what your woman does.

  18. Perhaps you are just leaving out details, but this article goes against everything I’ve learned over the years. Community property is what was acquired after the marriage started. Separate property is what each person had the day before the marriage. So, all you need is a list of your assets before the marriage. Signed/agreed, of course

    Right; read the part that I bolded in your statement. Signed/agreed. If you have $500,000 and she has zero dollars and you just get married and don’t sign anything beyond the marriage license then get divorced three years later she can be awarded up to 50% of that original $500,000 if she pushes the issue.

    If you have a house, this is yours after the divorce. But, you need to structure it like it’s a rental business. Be careful that you make all the tax, mortgage and maintenance payments. If she contributes to any of this, a lawyer could claim part of the equity is rightfully hers.

    Correct.

    Retirement accounts are always separate property so long as she never contributes a dime.

    I believe this is true, yes, because those are government instruments.

    You are keeping banking separate, right?

    Fuck yes. Everything separate.

    Inheritances are always separate.

    Again I believe that is true but I’d be careful about using the word “always.” Example: while married you inherit $1 million from your rich uncle, you haven’t signed anything other than the marriage license, and then you get divorced 5 years later. I’m pretty sure she could argue that million is now communal and get some of that.

    However it is a bad idea to get married.

    Correct.

    It is better for a man to have only FBs or at least 2 MLTRs..

    In most cases this is correct.

    Blackdragon probably truly loves Pink Firefly and wants a deeper, stronger and better emotional connection with her, but let us not delude ourselves in that she is not the emotional, financial and time suck on him that most women would be which allows him to concentrate more fully on his mission and make more money and be able to leave the USA faster and better than he would be able to do so otherwise, and I truly believe that he fully knows, understands and is self aware of this.

    Correct. I am paying a price by being OLTR married, as will any man. I have ensured that this price is very small compared to 99% of other married men, but the price is still there. The benefits I receive from being in an live-in OLTR outweigh this price for me, at this time in my life. This was not true for most of my life prior (I said no to many marriage proposals from other women prior to PF), nor is it true for most men reading these words.

    I will post an article explaining this in more detail soon; many have asked for it.

    Living with a woman has many advantages.

    Eh, I would change “many” to “some.” And again, these advantages are only valid for certain men at certain points in their lives.

    NonMonogamous doesn’t have to mean you have 5 other girls that you see every single week, it can just be that if you chose to you can always find someone and you don’t need anyones permission and its not cheating – for that there is no reason not to have such arrangement with your girl.

    More or less correct.

  19. If you have $500,000 and she has zero dollars and you just get married and don’t sign anything beyond the marriage license then get divorced three years later she can be awarded up to 50% of that original $500,000 if she pushes the issue.

    Only if you are very stupid and careless.  All you would need is bank statements for the month before the marriage proving you had that as separate property going in.  In court everything has to be proven with evidence.  You can’t just say “hey bro, that was mine” and hope to convince a judge.

    I realize you are writing this for average guys who have very little or no business experience.  You are doing them a good service, warning them of the pitfalls and advising competent legal assistance.  But all it really takes is a basic understanding of business to get thru this unharmed.

    I would advise every man, alpha 2.0 or not, to take a business law class at your local college.  We live in a society governed by laws and it is very important that you learn the basics.  You will learn how to write your own simple contracts, deal with employers, banks, landlords, stores, etc…  Splitting up divorce assets and who pays child support are just issues of business equity.

  20. All good and relevant but why get married in the first place?

    Some would say to have children.

    But I can see where you can side-skirt that too and still raise them in an environment that is conducive to good growth.

    What’s the point?

    The only reason I can see if she is a super cool chic and she has more assets than you.

    Or for insurance purposes or benefits.

  21. BD had written earlier articles (on this subject) that I was highly critical of.

    This is not one of those articles, and it is very good.

    All good and relevant but why get married in the first place?

    Some guys are really needy, or really want to settle down with somebody and pair bond or some shit.  Clearly I’m still bitter and jaded divorced guy, but I just don’t get it.  I spent twenty years in (what I still believe) was a decent marriage and it wasn’t even worth the trouble before you consider the meatgrinder that is a contested California divorce.

  22. Splitting up divorce assets and who pays child support are just issues of business equity.

    Unless she’s being vexatious and angry about it.  Then she can beat the snot out of you with the process.

    Ultimately she’ll get her half.  If she’s representing her self per se, you will potentially be out exponentially more legal fees than if she had an attorney.  At least thats how mine went down.

    She got her half, my attorney got my half, and bankruptcy got the rest of it.

  23. Only if you are very stupid and careless.

    My friend, that is the norm and the standard for men who get married.

    I would advise every man, alpha 2.0 or not, to take a business law class at your local college.

    Hm. Good advice.

    All good and relevant but why get married in the first place?

    Most men shouldn’t.

    For those few who could, I will answer that in a future post. Also read this.

    BD had written earlier articles (on this subject) that I was highly critical of.

    That’s because…

    Clearly I’m still bitter and jaded divorced guy

    Which is why your opinion on this topic isn’t relevant or valid, and won’t be for at least another year or two. I don’t say that as an insult; I was like that too for about 2-3 years; angry and thus highly irrational and biased about he topic of settling down with a woman. I said a lot of things online in 2008 and 2009 that I regret until I snapped out of it and got back to objectivity.

    You will too. Eventually. (But not yet.)

    She got her half, my attorney got my half, and bankruptcy got the rest of it.

    Wow, yeah, you need a lot more time before you can state objective opinions on this. I’d be furious too. But humans can’t be objective and furious at the same time.

  24. Excellent post and comments.

    I feel like this has helped me to really lock on to

    what is

    what I want

    and how to achieve it.

    Thank you for that, Caleb.

    My tolerance level is extremely low for bullshit and this all cuts through the ninety percent of it floating out there in the ethers.

    This is the best business and relationship model for the current age.

    I was talking to a female friend of mine who streams on Twitch (funny, yes it is one of her income “streams”) and we both agree the business model and the relationship elements are sound and a lot of it applies to women as well (Ex. three separate sources of income, $75000). She was in total agreement with all of it.

    She’s a smart girl and it only reaffirms all the information readily available here.

     

  25. Retirement accounts are always separate property so long as she never contributes a dime.

    I believe this is true, yes, because those are government instruments.

    That’s not true. Contributions to retirement accounts made by you and your employer during the marriage are marital property. Interest and investment growth that occurs during the marriage is marital property as well. Contributions and growth prior to the marriage are yours.

    If the Qualified Domestic Relations Order (QDRO) isn’t written the right way, you could also end up paying taxes and early withdrawal penalties on distributions to your wife which would make splitting the retirement assets suck even more.

  26. Contributions to retirement accounts made by you and your employer during the marriage are marital property.

    Interesting.

  27. Remember, thanks to the Duluth model, she’s only a 911 call away from taking your house, your kids & possibly your freedom.

  28. Contributions to retirement accounts made by you and your employer during the marriage are marital property.

    The article is about OLTR “marriage”, not a legal marriage.  Your comment is true, but off topic.  In the US, if you are not legally married and you have not combined finances, this is a non issue.

    Let’s also remember BD is writing to a global audience.  A lot of this doesn’t apply to US law, even Krazy Kali.  For example, palimony is not real if you just keep your mouth shut.  If you promised in writing to take care of her all her life, then you have palimony.  Not so scary now, is it?

    Same for common law marriages.  In a few states if you go around telling everyone you are really married, just without the paper, that can be a problem.  So just shut up in those states.  In one of those states BD might be in trouble because he and Pink FF had a ceremony, rings, and they probably go around telling everyone they’re married.  But it doesn’t apply to Oregon, so okay… for now at least 🙂

    I looked up marriage like relationship, and it only applies to one province in Canada.

  29. The article is about OLTR “marriage”, not a legal marriage.  Your comment is true, but off topic.  In the US, if you are not legally married and you have not combined finances, this is a non issue.

    The whole point of this article is that if you don’t cross your t’s and dot your i’s your soon-to-be-ex, her lawyer and the government will try to convert your “marriage-like” relationship into a “marriage” if they can.  If they’re successful, assuming “retirement accounts are always separate” as part of an asset protection strategy could bite you in the ass. That sounds pretty on-topic to me. 🤔

    But the larger take away from my perspective is that the more serious the relationship is the better your attorney needs to be.

  30. All good and relevant but why get married in the first place?

    Most men shouldn’t.

    For those few who could, I will answer that in a future post. Also read this.

    So that article says “This is the price you pay to satisfy the human need to co-habit / pair bond that 97% of you (including me) have, or will have as you get older. That still doesn’t mean the NEVER MOVE IN WITH A WOMAN EVER advice will be effective in changing men’s behaviors“; what if I’m part of the 97% and do get that desire for cohabitation, but successfully resist it and never move in with a woman, what level of unhappiness will I be looking at? Can I still hope to achieve close to 8/10 consistent happiness (assuming I stick to FBs, MLTRs and the occasional non-live-in OLTR)?

  31. Questions

    1 Does it matter if she makes more money than you do?

    2 Does it matter if there is a record of her paying you rent?

    3 Does it matter if you move into her house, condo, whatever?

    4 Does it matter if she is sterile, had a hysterectomy or tubes tied?

Leave a Reply

To leave a comment, enter your comment below. PLEASE make sure to read the commenting rules before commenting, since failure to follow these rules means your comment may be deleted. Also please do not use the username “Anonymous” or “Anon” or any variation thereof (makes things too confusing).

Off-topic comments are allowed, but Caleb will ignore those.

Caleb responds to comments in person, but he only does so on the two most current blog articles.

Related Posts

Begin typing your search term above and press enter to search.