This is the next installment of the book I never published regarding my history with women and the lessons I learned from it. If you haven’t yet, you should read parts one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 , and 16 before you read the article below, so you can be up to speed on where the story picks up. Everything below is all 100% true to the best of my memory, journals, and spreadsheet records, though all the names of the people described have been changed.

We last left off about ten years ago, the summer of 2009…

Summer 2009

At this point I was seeing these three women regularly, plus new women I added sporadically:

Darci – Blonde 23-year-old FB college student. I was seeing her about 2-3 times a month originally, but as the summer wore on, I started seeing her less and less.

HBM – 19-year-old inexperienced Asian FB I saw every week who also cleaned my entire house when she came over. She started becoming more consistent

Sadie– Highly intelligent blonde Russian MLTR, age 23. She was the one who freaked out at the pregnancy test she saw in my trash can, resulting in a (nice) soft next from me.

Darci started slowly floating away. I started seeing her less and less often. No particular reason; she was great. It just happens sometimes. There are times where you or the woman become really busy with other things or other people. I saw her less and less frequently throughout the summer, and by September I wasn’t seeing her anymore. No next, no argument, nothing like that. She just… floated away.

Which was fine. HBM was becoming much more consistent. She was always happy, fun and 100% drama free. She was still an FB since she was only 19, but she was the most enjoyable FB I had ever had up until that point. We would go on to have one of my longest consistent nonmonogamous relationships (almost six years) and as she became older, we were going to grow much more serious. But I didn’t know any of that at this point and wasn’t even thinking about it. She was just a really fun, hot, young, drama-free FB who loved to clean my house. Win.

She would even wash my dishes when she saw other women’s lipstick all over the glasses. She didn’t say anything (though she would much later). She would just make a mental note, file it for later, and continue to sing songs while she cleaned, like a little Asian Snow White.

The sex was getting better too. Within a few weeks I had her orgasming regularly, which only increased her high degree of horniness even more. To this day she ranks as one of the most consistently horny women I’ve ever dated. I taught her various sexual positions and, though initially reluctant, she started enjoying certain ones over others, requesting them in advance.

She kept the entire relationship a secret from everyone she knew, including her friends and even her family whom she still lived with. She always made up a story about how she was going to “hang out with friends” when she came over to see me. This was easy for everyone to believe since HBM was an extreme extrovert and constantly spent time with a huge network of friends when she wasn’t working at her full-time restaurant job.

She didn’t match my physical ideal very much. I like Barbie blondes with big boobs, and she was an Asian with small boobs, but she was hot, had an amazing body outside of the boobs, and was petite, which I like. Not to mention all of her other positives I described above.

Sadie came back after just a few weeks, but only briefly. She was still upset that her Disney fantasies were disrupted by the fact that I was nonmonogamous and always would be. She gave me the usual Societal Programming ASD about how I was a sex addict or something (to which I explained this and this to her). We saw each other for a few more weeks, but the Russian in her just made her too angry about the fact I was having sex with other women, especially women who were younger than her. So, she left me in a LSNFTE and went to go date a Russian beta male she met in the unemployment line. (Yes, I’m serious.) She would be back in about six months. More on that in a future installment.

Darci and Sadie leaving was no problem at all because I was still cranking the dating machine and continuously adding new women from my online dating.

The first one was Layla, a 6’1” 19–year-old who not only was taller than me, but someone I later found out was a virgin. When she met up with me for the first time at a Starbucks down the street from my house (she only lived five minutes away from me which I thought was very convenient), she was absolutely terrified. She had never been on a date before and certainly had never been on one with a guy who was almost 20 years older than her (I was 37 at the time).

Not a problem. By midway into 2009, after two and a half years of working on my dating skills, I was finally a pro at this stuff, so I was able to get her to relax and establish both rapport and attraction. I was able to get her over to my place for the second meet, and over the next few weeks we did a lot of sexual things but never actually got to full-on sex. The only reason I tolerated this was because I found out she was a virgin. She had a boyfriend in high school, and they had, like us, done plenty of sexual stuff but never actually went all the way. I thought it would be interesting and unique to have sex with a virgin since I had never done it before. I also had never had sex with a woman who was actually taller than me and thought that would be an interesting experience well.

I was wrong. We never got to full-on sex because she was just too nervous. After a few times, I smacked myself in the face and asked myself why in the hell I was wasting my time trying to have what would have been horrible sex with someone this nervous and inexperienced. I was already having much better sex on a regular basis with several other women. So, I let Layla go and we became infrequent texting friends. I don’t know what became of her.

Lesson Twenty-Nine

Don’t waste your time. If a woman doesn’t want to have sex with you after two or so visits to your home, she isn’t worth it. Whatever reason she has, even if you think it’s a good one, just move on. There are plenty of women just as hot or hotter than her right around the corner ready to have sex with you.

I have never had sex with a virgin. I don’t want to. I think it’s probably the dumbest sexual fantasy men have. (I would, however, later have sex with a woman taller than me. A few, in fact. That was fun.)

The other big addition around this time was Charlotte. I didn’t know it at the time, but Charlotte would go on to become one of the longest, most serious, and most important relationships I would ever have. She was 27 years old, redhead, college educated, very smart, very pretty, with the exact perfect curvy-but-trim body I like.

We hit it off immediately on the first date, got sexual on the second date, had sex on the third. Within two weeks I made her a strong MLTR and we started seeing each other weekly. We loved spending time together. We talked, we laughed, had great conversations, and the sex was just the way I liked it.

For the next six months I kept seeing HBM and Charlotte on an almost weekly basis. I would usually see HBM in the middle of the week (Wednesdays and Thursdays were her weekends), Charlotte on Mondays or Fridays (she was a regional manager so she set her own schedule), and I always reserved my weekends for my children.

At around this time my divorce from Lacy was finalized and a great weight lifted from my shoulders, though my finances were still dicey as I was still recovering from the crash of 2008 (as I talk about in my book).

My relationships with HBM and Charlotte both deepened. Eventually I verbalized my nonmonogamy to both of them, and neither of them cared.

HBM just said to me one day, with a big smile on her face, “You fuck other girls, don’t you?” I just smiled and shrugged. Then she said, “Yeah. You fuck other girls.” And that was that, no further discussion. My EFA had worked perfectly. I would later go on to have sex with many of her friends, some of whom were hotter than her, but that would be later.

With Charlotte, I just told her I was nonmonogamous. She said, “As long as I can have sex with other girls, you can have sex with all the girls you want.” Charlotte was heavily bi-sexual (I didn’t realize how much at the time) and most of her best friends were hardcore lesbians, so what I was doing wasn’t a big deal to her. Perfect.

I dialed down the dating machine a little during the September – December time frame in 2009. HBM and Charlotte were so consistent and solid that I really didn’t need a bunch of other women, and my crazy phase was beginning to draw to a close (but it wasn’t over yet!). There were three other women I saw very sporadically during that time, but none of them were important or long-lasting.

2010 was around the corner, and that would be an important year as well.

To be continued.

50 Comments on “The Story of My History with Women – Part 17 – Deep Relationships

  1. Any real FFM bisexual 3somes with her lesbian friends?

    No. Real lesbians don’t have sex with men. Only bisexual women do. It’s strange that so many men don’t understand this.

    Typos

    Fixed; thanks.

  2. Virgins are way over rated. On the other hand, it’s quite fun to be the first guy to help a woman achieve an orgasm. Opportunities abound, even among women who have had a fair few partners.

  3. Couldn’t agree more with the lesson #29.

    A couple of years ago I was going through a dry spell and met a cute Brazilian 26-year old girl on Tinder. We met up and had an amazing date. I got her to my place, we started getting sexual, but she was acting a bit weird. Then she told me she was a virgin. Although mildly surprised, I understood and dialed it down. It was still a beautiful evening and we had a great time. I ended up walking her back to her place.

    She asked for a second date the next day and so I invited her over for dinner. Again, we got sexual but nothing happened. I gently told her that sex is important to me and if she isn’t comfortable with that, we should probably end it here. She cried a little bit and was remorseful for her shyness, and I, again, walked her back home out of sympathy, not expecting to see her again.

    Surprisingly, she texted me the next day asking to meet again. To make sure we are on the same page I made a few fairly obvious sexual innuendos, to which she responded eagerly, so I invited her for a movie. However, alas, the same story. Lots of nervousness, lots of insecurities, and we didn’t get further than kissing. At this point I decided that enough is enough, remembered that the NHL Play-offs are on in half an hour, asked her if she remembered her way home, kissed her goodbye and sent her back. Penguins won that night, I think, and I was having sex within a month.

    Don’t waste your time and don’t force whats not there.

  4. Hey BD, are there any common personality or character traits you have noticed with women who tend to stay several years with you versus those who tend to leave earlier (6 months to 1 year) after the talk?

    What about character traits of those who tend to come and leave after a few encounters?

    Also, are you able to notice these traits during the first or second date?

  5. Hi BD, in your post “Always make her cum”, you mentioned that the easiest way to get a woman to orgasm is by going down on her. Fine. But my question is – at what point in time do you think its “safe” to do so?

    Let’s say you’re about to have first time sex with a new woman whom you know nothing about, do you go down on her? Are there specific things you look out for before deciding to go down on a woman or not or is there a minimum number of times you would have had sex with her before introducing that into the relationship?

    I want to make my women cum but I don’t want to catch something…

     

  6. I want to make my women cum but I don’t want to catch something…

    Going down on women is among the least risky activities. Which STIs are you that concerned about?

  7. On the other hand, it’s quite fun to be the first guy to help a woman achieve an orgasm.

    Ah, now THAT I agree with.

    I have been such a man with many women.

    It’s awesome.

    They will never forget you…

    Hey BD, are there any common personality or character traits you have noticed with women who tend to stay several years with you versus those who tend to leave earlier (6 months to 1 year) after the talk?

    Other than they are not hardcore provider hunters, no.

    What about character traits of those who tend to come and leave after a few encounters?

    I virtually never have that problem and that’s a literal statement. Once I have sex with a woman twice, the odds are something like 98% that she’ll keep seeing me for many months. The only issue I have occasionally is women who one night stand me and never get to that second lay.

    Also, are you able to notice these traits during the first or second date?

    No. And I know where you’re going; you’re trying to screen. Don’t.

    Read this.

    Hi BD, in your post “Always make her cum”, you mentioned that the easiest way to get a woman to orgasm is by going down on her.

    That was many years ago so I will update that statement: the easiest way to make a woman cum is with a good vibrator. Going down on her is the second easiest way.

    Let’s say you’re about to have first time sex with a new woman whom you know nothing about, do you go down on her?

    Generally no. Use your finger or vibrator instead.

    Are there specific things you look out for before deciding to go down on a woman or not or is there a minimum number of times you would have had sex with her before introducing that into the relationship?

    I don’t have a specific number, but sure, I factor in these things before I do it the first time:

    • Her sexual history.
    • Her age (younger women are more promiscuous and reckless than older ones)
    • How her pussy looks (visual inspection)
    • How her pussy smells
    • My general overall feel for how responsible she is (just a guess/feeling).

    If all of those pass, I’ll go for it.

    I want to make my women cum but I don’t want to catch something…

    Read this, since the odds of you actually getting an STD from going down on a woman are often (and even perhaps usually) within the 2% Rule.

  8. That was many years ago so I will update that statement: the easiest way to make a woman cum is with a good vibrator.

    Everyone should have one around the house. Although I personally wouldn’t use it the first or second time I had sex with a woman unless she’s clearly ready for it. But it’s a gift in difficult cases.

  9. Everyone should have one around the house. Although I personally wouldn’t use it the first or second time I had sex with a woman unless she’s clearly ready for it.

    Agree.

  10. OFF TOPIC:

     

    I remember you saying that it’s “unrealistic” for a man to never move in with a woman.

     

     

    I just met Tom Leykis and he told me that he hasn’t lived with a woman since 2002 and he plans on living alone for the rest of his life. In fact, he said women aren’t even allowed to spend the night. *sigh*, thank God I met Tom. Thank God living alone forever is not “unrealistic”. I would have to have some womans hair clogging up my drains and her stuff taking up my space.

  11. I remember you saying that it’s “unrealistic” for a man to never move in with a woman.

    It is unlikely, not unrealistic. Tons of guys never move in with a woman. But as a percentage of men in the world, the group is microscopic.

    I just met Tom Leykis and he told me that he hasn’t lived with a woman since 2002

    Tom Leykis was married four times and he lived with all four of them, plus a few more. Thank you for proving my point.

  12. Your history with women

    I bet this was never a problem for you

    if first date she says she is a feminist then what?

    Things to not do or say ?

     

  13. if first date she says she is a feminist then what?

    Things to not do or say ?

    Exactly the same. There is a difference between a woman just being feminist and being a feminist and dominant. On submissive feminists the usual stuff works super amazing. On dominants… well dominants you probably not get / not want anyway. But if yes just the same as any other dominants. I’ve had feminists and its totally normal / same as usual, the difference comes later after many dates not at the start.

  14. Don’t waste your time. If a woman doesn’t want to have sex with you after two or so visits to your home, she isn’t worth it. Whatever reason she has, even if you think it’s a good one, just move on. There are plenty of women just as hot or hotter than her right around the corner ready to have sex with you.

    I have to confirm that the women where sex did not happen fast did not stay anyway, and in most cases it was over within one or two dates after that anyway. It is also true in my experience there are many nice kind hot intelligent women who will happily have sex with you on second or third date, sometimes even on the first.

  15. how do you handle a first date if she says she is a feminist?

    Scroll back a few blog posts and see what BD says about first date conversations. It’s not the fact that she may define herself that way that is the problem, it’s that she feels like dropping that into the conversation. And you gotta take some responsibility for that.

    If for some weird reason you feel like mentioning the words “Hilaty Clinton,” with a dark look on your face and a muttered oath under your breath, she might be perfectly justified to tell you she’s a feminist. And she’s probably flicking her eyes around for the exits and can’t wait to tell her girl friends what a disastrous night it was.

    You gotta ask yourself how the topic came up in the first place.

  16. she might be perfectly justified to tell you she’s a feminist. And she’s probably flicking her eyes around for the exits and can’t wait to tell her girl friends what a disastrous night it was.

    In this case I would say good riddance.

  17. If she says she’s a feminist, a friendly nod and a half-humorous question about competition with male co-workers might be the way to go. But if she immediately asks me “and you?”, I think it’d be the wrong move to say yes, even if I immediately change the subject. I think the best answer is a quick reframing, like “Oh, you mean do I think women should be paid as much as me so they can buy me all those fancy dinners? Hell yeah!” Big mischievous smile, then change topics.
    It’s ultimately the most honest answer, too, because the only reason I don’t really identify as a feminist is that nowadays it doesn’t mean what it’s supposed to mean, ie the actually relevant stuff about equal rights that most people believe in anyway.

  18. I want to make my women cum but I don’t want to catch something…

    Read this, since the odds of you actually getting an STD from going down on a woman are often (and even perhaps usually) within the 2% Rule.

    I used to go down a lot on women, almost systematically, but I did catch chlamydia in my throat at least one time for sure as it was tested (maybe 2). It just felt like I had a cold with sore throat except the usual antibiotics didn’t work, so after the test revealed that is was chlamydia the doctor gave me a more specific antibiotic and it was all gone in a week. I said maybe 2 because the same thing happened before in a different country with a different doctor who prescribed similar change of antibiotics, except that time the doctor didn’t make a test and didn’t explicitly said it was a STD nor mentioned chlamydia.

    Long story short, it’s objectively not a big deal, however psychologically I am a lot lot less enthusiast about going down on women, I do the kind of sexual screening BD describes, or I go for it if I really crave it. One big change is that I almost never do it anymore if her pussy smell doesn’t turn me on.

    I would also add to the various orgasm techniques that BD only talks here about clitoris orgasm, but he doesn’t address G-spot orgasm because he thinks that squirting is weird. I disagree and I think on the contrary that it’s unnatural that women refrain themselves from experiencing this orgasm, albeit understandable: it’s inconvenient to risk wetting the place and may be perceived as dirty. I am now able to make about 70% of the women I have sex with to have a G-spot orgasm with “the claw” hand technique if I seat them on the toilet so they don’t have any mind block about wetting the bed. It’s a lower success rate because unlike clitoris orgasm where she doesn’t have anything to do on her side, just not block it, for the G-spot she has to “push out and let go” when the moment comes, if she isn’t able to understand that, you can’t make it work alone, it’s a 2 sided cooperation thing, not a one sided action. I haven’t been able to nail G-spot orgasm just with my cock but it happened with a tiny minority of “natural squirters”.

    I noticed women generally don’t want to experience G-spot orgasm every single time they have sex because after they usually feel kinda tired and sleepy, it’s the full deep and complete sexual release, preferable to mark the complete end of the sex session and after at least one clitoris orgasm. Clit+G-spot orgasm is equivalent to the full sexual release men experience when cumming. Whereas clit orgasm is not a full sexual release and the woman is usually ready to fuck again very soon or almost immediately. When you manage to make a woman feel that complete sexual release, it’s even more powerful of a bonding and it’s even more rare for them to experience all of that with a man. The vast majority never had experienced a G-spot orgasm before meeting me.

  19. If she says she’s a feminist, a friendly nod and a half-humorous question about competition with male co-workers might be the way to go. But if she immediately asks me “and you?”

    If she tells you she is one you just acknowledge it with a smile and change the topic. Or maybe smirk and say oh really / say good for her and then change the topic. I have met many feminists from various countries and was literally never asked “and you?”. I estimate the chance of her asking that is therefore almost zero unless you are doing something that makes women ask you that. I am guessing she would ask because the comment she is one makes you look visibly nervous or uncomfortable, if you made it clear with your body language and demeanor that its fine with you / not a big deal for you I guarantee she will not ask because she will assume you are on the same page. If she would really ask you this I would suggest to do something like grab her hand firmly and give her a nice confident look and say absolutely! I am a protector of women!

  20. Awesome as always, BD. And…

    she left me in a LSNFTE and went to go date a Russian beta male she met in the unemployment line.

    Can’t make this shit up, lol!

    Also, on role models and stories: have you ever considered a series on the blog about the subject? Could be alpha males 2.0 in media, with good examples, like Sam from Lord of Light, or Edmond Dantès from The Count of Monte Cristo. I like to read a lot, but I have a hard time finding books where I can relate to the protagonist, since most authors are betas and write their characters as such. One of the reasons why I hardly ever watch movies anymore too. It’s just so annoying that it defeats the purpose, most of the time.

  21. Also, on role models and stories: have you ever considered a series on the blog about the subject? Could be alpha males 2.0 in media, with good examples,

    Series: Vikings, Battlestar Galactica, Mad Men, Dracula (2013), a lot of the start trek materials

    Games: mass effect series, witcher series

  22. Hi BD,

    when you talk about the dating machine, is there a number of dates per week you recommend a guy should target in order to hone his skills and bring girls in regularly?

    I know some guys manage to bed 1 girl out of every 2 they date, it completely baffles me.

    In the last 6 weeks I’ve dated 2 new women per week on average from daygame plus a couple occasional ones from Tinder. My number close ratio is quite good (1 in 3 or so), my number to date ratio is decent (1 in 5 or 6), my date to lay ratio is horrendous for now.

    Also, how many women did you date during that time of your life before you felt like you really knew what you were doing, and had a decent/good date to lay ratio?

    Your recent article on shutting up during dates has seemed to help since my 2 dates of last week keep texting.

    I’m 36 so hopefully I’ll be walking in your footsteps on this.

  23. Also, on role models and stories: have you ever considered a series on the blog about the subject? Could be alpha males 2.0 in media

    That’s definitely on the to-do list.

    Edmond Dantès from The Count of Monte Cristo

    Hardcore Alpha Male 2.0, yes. I actually quote him in my book. The Count of Monte Cristo is the best example of Alpha Male 2.0 in historical fiction, bar none.

    when you talk about the dating machine, is there a number of dates per week you recommend a guy should target in order to hone his skills and bring girls in regularly?

    That varies based on lots of factors, primarily your level of skill (if you’re good, less, if you suck, more) and the type of woman you want (if it’s high ASD women in their 30s, more, if they’re young carefree girls, less).

    My rule of thumb, that I followed for many years, was to have around 10 first dates “in the hopper”, meaning either they were the schedule or very likely to be on the schedule. It wasn’t a weekly figure.

    Next week I have an article going up about numbers to track.

    I know some guys manage to bed 1 girl out of every 2 they date, it completely baffles me.

    That would be me, today (45-50% first date to lay ratio). Today I can literally target individual, specific women on social media and likely get there. But it took me a while to get to this point.

    My number close ratio is quite good (1 in 3 or so), my number to date ratio is decent (1 in 5 or 6), my date to lay ratio is horrendous for now.

    Then you need to pinpoint what you’re doing wrong on first dates. You need to read chapter 10 in this book.

    how many women did you date during that time of your life before you felt like you really knew what you were doing, and had a decent/good date to lay ratio?

    By early 2009, after about a year and a half of working on it. I don’t know what you mean by “date” in this context.

  24. Hey BD, this is off topic:

    Have you ever done an article on how to get women who have boyfriends? Now here is the funny part: I have had like 8 women in recent years, who I made out or had sex with (sometimes even when their boyfriends were in the same place) but it wasn’t me doing all the work, they came at me. Now I would like to know how to game them when it’s me doing the work/approaching.

    Thanks

  25. If she says she’s a feminist, a friendly nod and a half-humorous question about competition with male co-workers might be the way to go. But if she immediately asks me “and you?”

    I also never heard anything about feminism on dates, but one issue I do sometimes raise of my own initiative could well apply here. I sometimes tell them how I find it unfair that women aren’t “allowed” to seek sex and express their desire for it, or otherwise they’re branded sluts by the society. (The implication of course being that I would never slut shame them.)

  26. Have you ever done an article on how to get women who have boyfriends?

    Hmm. I’ve got one of those preparing breakfast for us as I type (husband, not boyfriend, but same difference).

    I think the big difference is that they are generally much more blunt, less ASD, completely cool with you having other women, clearly not provider hunters, very discreet, no desire for you to meet their friends, happy to meet only occasionally.  It’s more cut to the chase.

    Ah, here’s breakfast!

    Good luck!

  27. Have you ever done an article on how to get women who have boyfriends?

    There is literally no difference.

    A strong percentage of all of my FBs have/had boyfriends while I was seeing them.

    Monogamy doesn’t work.

  28. Off topic. But it had to be posted. More proof that the Alpha Male 2.0 relationship model is a path to lomg-term consistent hapiness. OI all the way, baby!

    “Expectations shape your relationship, suggests a new study (n=253), which found that people were more grateful, had more respect, and were more satisfied with their relationships if they had low expectations of sacrifice by their partners, supporting the theory that “expectations kill gratitude”.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/between-you-and-me/201909/how-expectations-are-shaping-your-relationship

  29. @AlphaOmega

    Thanks for the suggestions, mate, will check some of them out. New Battlestar Galactica or the old one?

     

    @Incognito

    […]completely cool with you having other women[…]

    […]very discreet[…]

    […]happy to meet only occasionally.

    Hasn’t been my experience. At least for me, girls with bfs tend to be more jealous-prone and clingy. The main difference is that they know that they have no moral ground to stand on, so they get pissed knowing that you date other chicks, but they suck it up. Actual conversation I had with one of those a few of years ago:

    Me: Yeah, there was this time I was dating this girl, and blablabla…

    *She gets visibly grumpy*

    Me: What’s the matter? *laughing*

    Her: I don’t like when you talk about your ex’s or to think that you date other girls, but I know that if I complain you’ll leave and I’ll never see you again.

    Me, kinda startled: That’s… Absolutely correct.

    Might be my demographic (mostly young, college age girls, very feminine and romantic types). Also, on the discreet part, it’s been my experience that they suck at that, but their bfs simply don’t want to face facts. Much like a parent whose kid is doing drugs, but they convince themselves that it can’t be true, “they would never do that”.

  30. Thanks for the suggestions, mate, will check some of them out. New Battlestar Galactica or the old one?

    new one for sure, never watched the old one and it didnt have such awesome reviews the new one has stellar reviews: even people who don’t like scifi told me they loved this series; also the old one probably feels very dated now, though I haven’t watched it so can’t tell

    Me: Yeah, there was this time I was dating this girl, and blablabla…

    *She gets visibly grumpy*

    Me: What’s the matter? *laughing*

    Her: I don’t like when you talk about your ex’s or to think that you date other girls, but I know that if I complain you’ll leave and I’ll never see you again.

    Me, kinda startled: That’s… Absolutely correct.

    What you described is normal. Just because she knows / is okay with you having other women doesn’t mean she wants to hear about it / know details. Most of the time you should not do that.

    Might be my demographic (mostly young, college age girls, very feminine and romantic types).

    You will get this same amount of maybe even more in other demographics because of what I just explained.

    Also, on the discreet part, it’s been my experience that they suck at that, but their bfs simply don’t want to face facts. Much like a parent whose kid is doing drugs, but they convince themselves that it can’t be true, “they would never do that”.

    Yes, this is true for both sexes. Quite often the other person knows or suspects, or at the very least it is super logical if they think about it this would happen because of this and that cicrumstance. It is therefore accepted as long as it is not known. This means it is accepted and tolerated but not explicitly. This is important to understand because even in open relationships you will have this – most of the time it needs to be discreet and without details. Many officially closed relationships de facto function like this also. What most people don’t realize is that many officially monogamous couples are already de facto non monogamous and they accept the situation they just do not verbalize it. I am convinced that most of the time your long term relationship success will depend on playing this correctly.

    Off topic. But it had to be posted. More proof that the Alpha Male 2.0 relationship model is a path to lomg-term consistent hapiness. OI all the way, baby!

    There is no need for such proof, at least for those like me, where having choice, freedom and redundancy is what I want anyway which is what to me is definition of Alpha 2.0. Although I know some people don’t like choice – they cannot chose and are afraid of mistakes so prefer if it is chosen for them. Those people will never be happy with Alpha 2.0 and will not be convinced by any studies or articles or statistics. The people who want choice on the other do not need any supportive materials. Therefore it is purely academic.

    “expectations kill gratitude”

    The fact that expectations lead to disappointment and bad results very often is something that has been well known for millennia in many different cultures around the world. It is amazing how many times people think they have discovered something revolutionary when it is something that to the rest of us was obvious already.

  31. Might be my demographic (mostly young, college age girls, very feminine and romantic types).

    Yes, could be we are talking about a slightly different demographic. I was referring more to married women, 30-40 years old. And nobody is going to convince me that they don’t have almost supernatural powers to cover their trails. They have strong guidelines for when to text (“My husband might get suspicious if the phone beeps in the evening”), for where they can meet, and all that.

    In fact, BD wrote a blog post, something like Why Men Suck at Cheating, in which he also contrasts male and female behavior in this area. I don’t know why you’re now saying that there is “literally no difference” between married women and women still explicitly in the market for a boyfriend or husband, Caleb.

    I just had a hilarious discussion with one of these said married women, who was also having a fling with a young guy at her workplace (he was also married). She rolled her eyes and complained about him doing stuff like blowing kisses at her across the office, constantly sending her texts (“He SAYS his wife won’t check his phone, but I know other women better than that! And I don’t want her making trouble for me at work”), and so on. Poor thing. I almost told her earlier that I thought the guy at work was a bad idea, but I thought it might come across as some sort of moral disapproval, so I left it alone.

  32. He SAYS his wife won’t check his phone, but I know other women better than that!

    I never understood the thing about checking a partners phone. It is the easiest thing ever to prevent a partner from doing that. Just put a password on your phone (which you should have anyway) and disable notifications being visible on lock screen. You can even restrict access to individual apps on the phone. The only way then would be if the partner knows how to hack through the phone security, has my phone for long enough to do that and actually does it. Unless your partner is an actual hacker / phone repairman etc the chances of that are probably less than 0.1%. Literally anybody can prevent a partner from accessing anything on they’re phone.

  33. I don’t know why you’re now saying that there is “literally no difference” between married women and women still explicitly in the market for a boyfriend or husband, Caleb.

    I think he was talking about young women with and without a boyfriend, where I partly agree. Older women with and without husband is definitely a huge difference since without husband is gonna be hard core provider hunter and with husband probably just wants a discreet affair. Still, I only partly agree since I see the expectations and demands of younger women with and without boyfriends are often different.

  34. @AlphaOmega

    What you described is normal. Just because she knows / is okay with you having other women doesn’t mean she wants to hear about it / know details. Most of the time you should not do that.

    Yeah, I don’t. It was just a casual conversation that led to a story about an ex from years ago. My girls have zero idea about who the others are, they just know that there are others. Been following BD’s advice since around 2011~2012.

    I never understood the thing about checking a partners phone. It is the easiest thing ever to prevent a partner from doing that.

    Oh, I can answer that. It’s actually pretty simple: most men have no balls and can’t say no to a woman. So they start dating, and one day, “out of the blue”, she asks to borrow his phone and asks for his password. He, being a dutiful beta, doesn’t know how to deny her anything she wants, and gives in. Same goes for removing dating apps, etc. I’ve seen it happen to pretty much every guy I know, even the ones who should know better.

     

    @incognito

    Yes, could be we are talking about a slightly different demographic.[…]

    […]They have strong guidelines for when to text (“My husband might get suspicious if the phone beeps in the evening”), for where they can meet, and all that.

    Lol! Yeah, now I’m pretty convinced that’s the case. For example: one of these girls actually called her boyfriend from the motel bed, praying that the woman next door wouldn’t start moaning again. Another one insisted on getting inside the bathroom with me, while her boyfriend waited outside at the bar. The list goes on and on, but my point is: the committed girls I date are terrible at covering their tracks. I actually would prefer if they were discreet as the ones you seem to be getting.

  35. I never understood the thing about checking a partners phone. It is the easiest thing ever to prevent a partner from doing that.

    Kind of. Except most PEOPLE, men and women included, are pretty crappy about guarding their passwords. Very few people make a conscious effort to make sure that nobody is looking while they key it on, or not consistently. And then a lot of people use the pattern password, often based on the first letter of their name.

  36. I don’t know why you’re now saying that there is “literally no difference” between married women and women still explicitly in the market for a boyfriend or husband, Caleb.

    That is not what I said. Go back up and re-read my comment and the question I was answering. Slowly.

  37. There is literally no difference.

    A strong percentage of all of my FBs have/had boyfriends while I was seeing them.

    Monogamy doesn’t work.

    I agree about monogamy. But what exactly do you mean by saying “no difference”? Are you referring on how to approach taken women or that they chase you?

  38. @Incognito

    I think the big difference is that they are generally much more blunt, less ASD, completely cool with you having other women, clearly not provider hunters, very discreet, no desire for you to meet their friends, happy to meet only occasionally.  It’s more cut to the chase.

    I know that. But the question was whether there is a different way on how to attract them, especially when you see them ocassionally, yet regularly. Is there a chance of getting to know her, if she mentions her boyfriend? I know, it’s about whether she is attracted to you or not, but still.

  39. Is there a chance of getting to know her, if she mentions her boyfriend?

    I presume when you say “getting to know her,” you mean having sex with her? Sure! It’s just a statement that she’s not looking for a boyfriend and that if you want to have sex with her, you better be cool. The usual laws of attraction apply, but you do need to make it clear that you aren’t going to create problems for her. You don’t have to talk about that explicitly, but you do need to make it clear.

  40. what exactly do you mean by saying “no difference”? Are you referring on how to approach taken women or that they chase you?

    Approaching.

  41. Kind of. Except most PEOPLE, men and women included, are pretty crappy about guarding their passwords. Very few people make a conscious effort to make sure that nobody is looking while they key it on, or not consistently. And then a lot of people use the pattern password, often based on the first letter of their name.

    What about using biometrics?

  42. What about using biometrics?

    There was a great story a few months ago about an air rage incident. Husband and wife were traveling together on a plane, while he was sleeping, she picked up his phone and pressed his finger against the sensor to open it. She found abundant evidence of his numerous infidelities. She went beserk, the plane had to be re-routed to handle the situation.

  43. Husband and wife were traveling together on a plane, while he was sleeping, she picked up his phone and pressed his finger against the sensor to open it. She found abundant evidence of his numerous infidelities. She went beserk, the plane had to be re-routed to handle the situation.

    Ah, monogamy.

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