Getting sexually bored, eventually, with that same person day in and day out. Women do it. Men do it. Let’s analyze this from a nonmonogamous OLTR perspective. Does this still happen when you’re allowed to get funky with other people whenever you want? 

One of my readers who I’ll call “Paul” wrote this:  

Thanks to your amazing advice I now have a wonderful, permissive, smoking hot, borderline-nymphomaniac OLTR that I’ve been seeing for about a year now.  Recently though, I’m just not getting as hard as I used to and reaching orgasm with her is becoming a lot more difficult.  Meanwhile, I’m having no trouble whatsoever with my two FBs, despite both of them being nowhere near as attractive.  It feels like this might be an unavoidable part of being with the same woman for a long time. Is there anything you can recommend to mitigate it?

Let’s get this out of the way first. What Paul is talking about is normal. Yes, even in an OLTR. Not only is it normal, it’s biological, which means it’s not necessarily anyone’s fault. As I talk about in The Unchained Man, we have the bodies, DNA, and brains of cavemen living 100,000 years ago.  

The male caveman was hard-wired to want to have sex with and impregnate as many women as he could before he died from starvation or being eaten by saber-toothed tigers by age 25 

The female caveman was hard-wired to be attracted to the father of her children only until those children could be mobile and fend for themselves by around age three. After that, she had no biological reason to be attracted to him, and was, perhaps, onto the next guy. 

I say “was” in both examples, but the reality is that it should be “is.” You and your long-term girlfriend or wife are hard-wired right now to get sexually bored with each other to some degree as the relationship ages. It can’t not happen eventually unless one of you is a bizarre and rare exception to the rule. You don’t have very much control over hard-wired biology, and if you think you do, try not taking a piss for 48 hours.  

That’s the bad news. 

The key word in the above paragraph is the word eventually. The good news is that you have a lot of control over how long eventually is, as well as the severity of any any decline of attraction.

Let’s take reasonably common scenario from the woman’s perspective. Imagine a couple in their late twenties. She’s the typical nice girl. He’s a confident Alpha Male with a lot of dating and woman experience. She’s super attracted to him, and they get into a very serious OLTR and move in together. 

Let’s look at two possible scenarios:  

Scenario 1: Over time, the woman betatizes the guy. He starts acquiescing to more of her demands. He starts spending more time at home and less time working on his business and his Mission. Over time, he stops having sex with other women because he justifies that he “doesn’t need to” because the sex with her is so good. He starts gaining a little weight too. While it’s a slow process, he becomes more and more beta as the years go on. 

Scenario 2: Despite now living with the woman of his dreams, the guy remains a pure Alpha 2.0. He still works hard on his business and Mission. Sometimes she gently bugs him to work less and spend more time with her, but he nicely says no and continues. He continues to have regular sex with one or two really hot, younger FBs on the side, even if she complaints about sometimes. He actually starts lifting weights and watching his diet and starts losing weight, looking even better than he did when they first started dating. 

Here’s the question. Assuming both scenarios were exactly the same in all respects except what I just described, do you think the woman is going get bored with him sexually at the exact same time in both scenarios?  

Of course not! In scenario 1, she’s going to get bored with him sexually pretty damn fast, possibly within the first 12 months, certainly within the first 2-3 years (again, unless she’s a very odd exception to the rule). 

In scenario 2, it will be a very long time before she starts getting bored with him, years and years. Even if she’s frustrated with his lack of compliance, her sexual desire for him will remain very strong. Read this if you want more details about why. 

Will she never get bored with him if they stay together and if he remains Alpha 2.0? No. That’s Guy-Disney, and Disney doesn’t exist. She’s still a woman and still has core human biology. While it will take many years, she will still eventually get to the point where sex with him doesn’t turn her on as much as it once did. Assuming the relationship is still strong and he’s doing everything right, she’ll probably continue to stay with him despite this. (Double that if he starts doing well financially.) Of course there are no guarantees and All Relationships Are Temporary™, but I’m just saying that she is unlikely to leave as soon as she gets sexually bored with him, unlike a lot of women in normal monogamous relationships to boring beta males or exasperating (from the woman’s standpoint) Alpha Male 1.0s. 

Regardless, Paul is asking about his sexual boredom.  

Well, it works the same way, just in reverse. 

Since he’s a human, Paul is going to eventually get sexually bored with his OLTR, even if she’s hot as hell and fantastic in bed, particularly if they move in together. It can’t not happen (unless he’s a strange exception to the rule, which clearly, he is not).  

However, his girlfriend has the power to delay Paul’s boredom by many years. All she has to do is keep acting like the way she acted when she first started dating Paul. If she does that, and most women don’t, then it will be a very long time before Paul starts getting bored. 

He says she’s a “wonderful, permissive, smoking hot, borderline-nymphomaniac,” and I believe him. But I bet that if I did a detailed analysis of Paul, his girlfriend, and their relationship, I would find that there are many behaviors his girlfriend is no longer doing that she used to do when the relationship was new. There would also be new behaviors she had likely introduced into the relationship that did not exist when the relationship was new and hot to Paul. 

We can only speculate on exactly what those behaviors are, but I promise that they’re there.  

It may not be only behaviors. Her appearance may have changed. Maybe she’s gained some weight even though she’s still attractive. Maybe she had really long hair and how she has short hair, or perhaps changed the color of her hair. Maybe she dresses differently and/or wears different makeup. 

Paul’s conscious mind doesn’t see these things, but his subconscious mind picks up on all of it. Then, for some reason Paul doesn’t understand, he has trouble getting hard during sex with her, even though he still really likes her and is still decently attracted to her (or so he thinks). 

Are there times where men are in longer relationships with a woman and get bored with them even though the woman doesn’t change? Or don’t change much? It happens, but it’s much rarer. All men need sexual variety. Again, we’re cavemen so we can’t help it; it’s built into the core of who we are. But some men have a much stronger need for variety than others. Some men need an insane amount of variety. It’s these men who will eventually get bored with a woman somewhat quickly no matter what she does. 

I’ve spoken with extreme Thrill of the Hunt men who literally start to get bored with a woman once they’ve had sex with her four or five times. They may continue to have sex with her after that, but the excitement and sexual pleasure isn’t what it was. Their need for sexual variety is far beyond the average.

Most men won’t have this problem (I never have). It’s unlikely you’re in this category, but if you are, then yeah, you’re going to have to learn to manage that if a long-term OLTR is in your future. 

70 Comments on “Sexual Boredom with Long-Term Partners

  1. So, what can Paul do?

    Stop fucking her.  Why fuck someone you don’t really want to fuck.  That isn’t happiness.  I don’t care what you call the relationship.  If you’re fucking someone you don’t want to really fuck you might as well be married or in a traditional relationship.  You’re just fooling yourself.  Sure there are times where you’re going to be tired, not in the mood and etc but wer aren’t talking about that.  He literally doesn’t want to fuck this chick.  That’s game over for me.  Time to send her back to FB status.

  2. So, what can Paul do?

    From what I gather, Paul is already doing what he can to stave off boredom: being in a OLTR, having 2 FB‘s on the side. Living the Alpha 2.0 lifestyle.

    Before I came across the Blackdragon blog (and seduction in general) I never realized how much boredom plays a role within long term (monogamous) relationships.

    Now, looking back with this knowledge I see it with so many couples, and also with my old relationships. There was no hatred, maybe people even still loved each other very much, But they just got very bored of each other. There’s no sexual tension what so ever anymore.

    The best example was with my cousin who got divorced last year. He works in advertising, where you can find heaps of attractive, exciting women. His wife, while taking excellent care of her body after having 2 boys, became a boring ubermom. She never wanted to go out anymore. Only wanted to spend 100% of her free time with her children, even though it was quite easy for them to find a babysitter.

    He himself is a good father, but also a someone who still wants to see the world where possible. So he started dating other women and finally left her for a quite good looking woman he met at work. Now, as BD himself has advised many times: don’t date at work!

    But me and my brother were the only ones in the family who understood why he did this. Even his own mother was mad as hell at him ‘How could he throw such a good thing away?!’

    Well, because he was bored beyond belief.

  3. So, what can Paul do?

    It’s interesting how he described the woman as “wonderful, permissive, smoking hot, borderline-nymphomaniac”, where 3 out of the 4 traits were related to appearance and sex. If all he values her for is sex and now it’s no longer good, that’s an answer in itself.

    Also BD described several times a scenario with a loved OLTR who brings much to the man but not sex, so he just fucks FBs. Also an option, though admittedly a last resort one.

  4. I have a somewhat different issue with getting aroused for my women.  Occasionally I end up with one or two more fb’s than I need, but when women return to me, I feel like I can handle adding them and just seeing them sporadically, but literally having too many women in my rotation has become a problem at times.

    What happens is I lose favor with my least attractive women.  If I have one or two too many fb’s, what ends up happening, is  I can’t get hard for the one or two least attractive women in my roster.  What happens is they start to fade because I see them way less or not at all but I honestly wish I never ran in to this issue of not being able to get hard, it is quite embarassing, and there was a time when I first started nonmonogamy where I could fuck 8 different girls in a week and be rock hard for all of them so I don’t know what my issue is but I’m hoping it isn’t lack of testosterone due to age or something.

  5. This is one of the most important articles that really doesn’t have a good solution. Once you are sexually bored with a woman you should let her go.

    In my opinion OLTR status and cohabitation accelerates this process. I don’t see how a man can keep being sexually attractive long term to his woman and vice versa when he sees her almost everyday. Even if he works on his mission and is physically healthy. Even if she is the horniest woman alive.

    What prolongs this as much as possible is being Alpha, keeping major rules in place and see her once in a while. Once this dies out for you, you should let her go and slot another woman in. It’s brutal but that’s the way life is and thats how you keep yourself as happy as possible.

    Forcing yourself to stay in such relationship damages everything.

    The thing you should seek out is have relationships with minimal drama, maximum freedom and maximum sex. This is where pair bonding differs from having a beta/1.0 traditional marriage/relationship.

    But for “forever” there is no solution either way.

    The real question is do you choose pair bonding over longer sexual attraction? Because I strongly believe pair bonding is damaging sexual attraction. The two are not friends

  6. Also BD described several times a scenario with a loved OLTR who brings much to the man but not sex, so he just fucks FBs.

    Not sure if BD said that but I don’t agree with this one at all because we all know what happens if sex doesn’t happen much. Boredom and loss of attraction. I’m not going to stay in such apathetic relationship. If I wanted someone who offers a lot but no sex I would pick a good friend. Not a woman I’m sleeping with but Im not fucking much anymore.

    Now if she doesn’t want sex as regularly as before that’s fine but not much is the end for me.

  7. What happens is I lose favor with my least attractive women. If I have one or two too many fb’s, what ends up happening, is I can’t get hard for the one or two least attractive women in my roster. What happens is they start to fade because I see them way less or not at all but I honestly wish I never ran in to this issue of not being able to get hard, it is quite embarassing, and there was a time when I first started nonmonogamy where I could fuck 8 different girls in a week and be rock hard for all of them so I don’t know what my issue is but I’m hoping it isn’t lack of testosterone due to age or something.

    Do you get hard for them when you think about them playing with yourself? If yes they are attractive but it may be something psychological or her behaviour or something.

    If not – do you get hard with other women / think about other women playing with yourself? If yes then they are simply not attractive to you and I do not understand why you are forcing yourself to have sex with them, especially when it’s clearly too much to handle! It sounds like you are doing it because you feel you have to or for the sake of it. Stop that.

    If you have trouble getting hard even with the most attractive (to you) women both in person / when thinking about them alone then it’s time to see a doctor.

  8. In my opinion OLTR status and cohabitation accelerates this process. I don’t see how a man can keep being sexually attractive long term to his woman and vice versa when he sees her almost everyday. Even if he works on his mission and is physically healthy. Even if she is the horniest woman alive.

    This means you are the kind of guy who gets bored with women easily when you make such comments. Which is fine but you need to realize there are other guys out there (in large numbers) who are very happy to be fucking the same woman long term and don’t lose attraction very fast especially when they continue having a variety.

    Another thing I don’t understand is why so many people are intent on forcing cohabitation – its such sociatal programming bullshit but in my experience leads to severe problems both in relationships and sex for so many people – for some it may be fine but for so many it’s clearly something they shouldn’t do. You can still see each other every or almost every day even if you don’t live together and you can still do sleepovers even if you don’t live together. And it creates a lot of opportunities to solve all kinds of issues if you both have your own place. Literally the only excuse to not do that is money – but one of you can have some cheap studio or flatshare (ideally her) and if that is still a problem you need to rethink your finances and income and work on that rather than be like oh my god why isn’t my relationship working how are we going to fix that. Just both have your own place and thats that. So simple.

  9. What prolongs this as much as possible is being Alpha, keeping major rules in place and see her once in a while. Once this dies out for you, you should let her go and slot another woman in. It’s brutal but that’s the way life is and thats how you keep yourself as happy as possible.

    Forcing yourself to stay in such relationship damages everything.

    The thing you should seek out is have relationships with minimal drama, maximum freedom and maximum sex. This is where pair bonding differs from having a beta/1.0 traditional marriage/relationship.

    But for “forever” there is no solution either way.

    The real question is do you choose pair bonding over longer sexual attraction? Because I strongly believe pair bonding is damaging sexual attraction. The two are not friends

    This would be all true if it was not possible to use the technique to compartmentalize which can solve just about any of these issues:

    downgrade / upgrade / cathegorize women
    have different people for different things
    etc..

    You want pair bonding and high explosive sex? Why do people think they absolutely MUST have it with the same person? More SP nonsense you need to clear out.

    Not sure if BD said that but I don’t agree with this one at all because we all know what happens if sex doesn’t happen much. Boredom and loss of attraction. I’m not going to stay in such apathetic relationship. If I wanted someone who offers a lot but no sex I would pick a good friend. Not a woman I’m sleeping with but Im not fucking much anymore.

    Now if she doesn’t want sex as regularly as before that’s fine but not much is the end for me.

    I always say and it is true and others have said it if you live together you absolutely should have sex at least every second day, otherwise something is wrong with either of your health or very wrong with the relationship. It completely defies the point of living together if you do not do that unless you are looking for a flatmate / house maid or something like that but then you wouldn’t share a bed / room. Sharing a bedroom with a partner you do not bang at least every every second day is a very bad idea and going to result in a disaster. However if you follow the advice to both keep a separate place if one of you doesn’t want this frequency anymore they simply do not stay around that often anymore or until they reconsider. Otherwise you have to create all kinds of rules like if you start having sex less often then this or that or that its all over! Just going to create loads of drama!

  10. Most of the manosphere  and PUAs advocate men not to move in with a women because over time the sex will decrease (sexual boredom & the thrill is gone). However, as long as a man can have FBs on the side, I guess it can help a relationship stays longer than the monogamous one because he can have sex with someone else in case his GF decides to restrict sex (because women love to chop men balls off in relationships, betalisations etc).  Only downfall I can think of from this is that when a dude begins to like one of his FBs more than his current lover LOL. Also, FBs are good since not many men keep backup options in comparison to women.

  11. downgrade / upgrade / cathegorize women
    have different people for different things
    etc..

    Downgrading a woman doesn’t solve the I’m not sexually attracted to her anymore. What solves this problem is let her go and revisit months or years later.

    And not sure if you realized but no OLTR will stay with you if downgrade her. What you describe is all good in theory but it doesn’t work out that way and I don’t know how you came to this conclusion.

    And There is also no pair bonding unless you are in OLTR. MLTRs are not for pair bonding since you see them once a week. Even the high end ones. Yes you can have some pair bonding with them but not the full meaning of it.

  12. Do you get hard for them when you think about them playing with yourself? If yes they are attractive but it may be something psychological or her behaviour or something.

    If not – do you get hard with other women / think about other women playing with yourself? If yes then they are simply not attractive to you and I do not understand why you are forcing yourself to have sex with them

    I almost never masturbate.  I consider my FB‘s as the outlet for that type of sexual urge but if I were to do so, I would be looking at porn and thinking about that particular woman.  The only woman I get hard about when I’m not with her is my MLTR when she sends me pics and/or talks dirty.

    What happens with the ones I cannot get hard for is I usually catch myself wishing they were one of my other FB‘s that are hotter.  Yes, basically I think to myself “why am I fucking this girl when I have hotter ones” sort of subconsciously.  At the time I really want to fuck her, probably been a few days since I’ve been laid, but knowing I could be fucking one of my hotter FB‘s just keeps my dick from reacting to her.

    This only becomes a problem when I have 1 or 2 too many women on rotation.  However I have a hard time letting these women go because as soon as one of my other FB‘s falls out of the rotation, my dick will work fine for her again lol.  It’s like I have a limit of how many women my dick will allow me to be fucking and naturally denies me the ability to fuck the least hottest in my rotation.

    So why not just drop the least attractive one if it’s a problem?  Because I have one MLTR and the rest FB‘s that come and go often.  Good chance I let a girl drop off, and then within a week or two another FB may drop off on her own and I’ll be wishing I hadn’t let the other one drop off because now I’m looking for a replacement.  So instead I just keep them all on rotation an then when one drops off, I’m back to the right number that works for me.

    What you’re maybe going to come back with is “scarcity mentality” problem.  You’d be right in the essence that the area I live is low population but in reality, I would much rather pull an old FB back in to the rotation real easy over sarging and dating new women.

    What really perplexes me is how I have literally less than 3 years ago, fucked 8 women in a week and was rock hard for every single one.  Wondering what is going on that I am still not able to be like that anymore??

  13. And There is also no pair bonding unless you are in OLTR. MLTRs are not for pair bonding since you see them once a week. Even the high end ones. Yes you can have some pair bonding with them but not the full meaning of it.

    That is what BD advocates but it is certainly nothing to do with what is or isn’t possible.

    What happens with the ones I cannot get hard for is I usually catch myself wishing they were one of my other FB‘s that are hotter.  Yes, basically I think to myself “why am I fucking this girl when I have hotter ones” sort of subconsciously.  At the time I really want to fuck her, probably been a few days since I’ve been laid, but knowing I could be fucking one of my hotter FB‘s just keeps my dick from reacting to her.

    That’s it right there. Have you tried fantasizing about one of the other girls when you are with the girl who turns you on less? Of course this is far from ideal but so many people do it both men and women and have always done it.

    This only becomes a problem when I have 1 or 2 too many women on rotation.  However I have a hard time letting these women go because as soon as one of my other FB‘s falls out of the rotation, my dick will work fine for her again lol.  It’s like I have a limit of how many women my dick will allow me to be fucking and naturally denies me the ability to fuck the least hottest in my rotation.

    Sounds psychological. But again I don’t see it as a problem. You probably feel weird / nervous about having so many women and this is how it exhibits itself. Again, I am not sure why you think it is a problem? You just keep it to the number that works for you. Remember: You don’t need loads of women. All you need to be non monogamous is 2.

    So why not just drop the least attractive one if it’s a problem?  Because I have one MLTR and the rest FB‘s that come and go often.  Good chance I let a girl drop off, and then within a week or two another FB may drop off on her own and I’ll be wishing I hadn’t let the other one drop off because now I’m looking for a replacement.  So instead I just keep them all on rotation an then when one drops off, I’m back to the right number that works for me.

    Then either get a second MLTR or keep seeing the FBs but at lower frequency. Second MLTR would be my style. I find it hard it hard to keep it pure FBs anyway and when I do the girls don’t stay very long. BD once said somewhere that its a scale from 1-10 of how much you like MLTR and how serious it is with FB being 0 and OLTR being 11. So why not just have 2-3 MLTRs keeping it somewhere in the range of 1-10 and just not date women who are 0 for you? Again, don’t see a problem.

    I would much rather pull an old FB back in to the rotation real easy over sarging and dating new women.

    So would I – not just because I have the idea its easier but because I do find it easier and nicer to fuck women I already know and especially a woman returning to me that I knew a long time ago is really hot for me.

    What really perplexes me is how I have literally less than 3 years ago, fucked 8 women in a week and was rock hard for every single one. Wondering what is going on that I am still not able to be like that anymore??

    Something changed. It could be medical but from your stories it sounds mostly psychological. Perhaps they were all women you didn’t care about but now that is different so you feel strange / turned off about doing too many? As long as you do get hard with some of them there is no problem.

  14. Damn very timely article Caleb-I’m at this point with one of my high end MLTR‘s.  I’m definitely more thrill of the hunt, not to the extreme but leaning more that way so that’s a factor.

    I can definitely confirm that almost all long term marrieds(5+ years) I know barely have sex, if at all anymore.  The women outright tell me that they have no interest in their husbands, especially after they get the kids they want.  Still want that TMM you old school fellas??

    Keeping to a more 2.0 model does indeed extend the attraction for sure though.  I find that 24/7 undiluted access to someone is that fastest way to kill any desire.  I’ve been able to stretch out the enjoyment by not seeing the girls as much, even when they push for it.

  15. That is what BD advocates but it is certainly nothing to do with what is or isn’t possible.

    Then you just have OLTR you simply don’t cohabitate with.

    You can’t pair bond to a good extent with an MLTR. Pair bonding means meeting with her relatives/friends, do stuff together regularly, see her regularly etc. So if you just start pair bonding with an MLTR you just upgraded her without you knowing it.

    I dont understand what you advocate. If it is what I believe you are going to say then As I have said good in theory and it’s simply disney. It’s not workable in real life.

  16. You can’t pair bond to a good extent with an MLTR. Pair bonding means meeting with her relatives/friends, do stuff together regularly, see her regularly etc. So if you just start pair bonding with an MLTR you just upgraded her without you knowing it.

    Maybe you have different requirements to pair bond than me and (some) other people, but I don’t see what some of those things have to do with pair bonding. Meeting with her friends and relatives? Are you kidding? What does that have to do with anything? They are not me and they are not her so why would that make any difference to pair bonding between me and her. But Maybe you are ultra extroverted and so is she so for you its extremely important? Or your friends and family are extreme part of your lives? I see them once a week on average but we spend part of or entire weekend together usually or at least a night and part of a day, that is more than enough for me. I don’t need to be baby sitted by someone 24/7 and have other stuff to do and need some personal time and space to myself.

    In fact in my experience (for me at least) the pair bonding is much stronger when it’s always just us and not other people involved. I do not care about her family or friends unless we want to live together or something but then it would be more of a practicality than me actually interested in it and I would only introduce women to my family if I had been seeing her for a long time and shes clearly my favorite and it’s the same for her.

    I dont understand what you advocate.

    I don’t call them MLTR, it’s half gf and to me it means we meet on average once a week and we almost entirely spend time alone at my house or her house, sometimes trips together but it’s just us. Dates are ok but not that often. And we didn’t have any talk about the relationship or where its going and we aren’t going to unless we want to change it. This works very well for many months usually and years if she has a boyfriend/another guy. But I don’t advocate anything, I just do it.

    Perhaps the extent could be higher but it is more than enough for me for the moment. I have two half gf that I have various degrees of pair bonding with and one girl which is a borderling fb/mltr and not sure yet what I want with her. It is more than enough for me pair bonding wise and I do not have any space for more pair bonding than this so I am only interested in FB / very low level MLTR right now.

  17. Simply put, an OLTR is not a cure for sexual boredom. Becoming sexually bored with your OLTR wife is simply inevitable due to human biology as BD has clearly communicated many times.

    An OLTR is not only for sex. If she was, you might as well have kept her a high-end FB or MLTR. An OLTR wife is like any wife in that the value she brings is more than just sex. Her companionship, especially as we men get older (i am only 29 but i feel the small, and i mean VERY small, itch of pair-bonding already), support and feminine energy should be enough even as the sexual excitment with her wanes.

    And this is why an OLTR marriage that BD has craftfully developed is so wonderful if you can pull it off. It doesn’t matter if you get sexually bored with your wife – you have FBs on the side to fulfill that need for sexual novelty.

  18. So, what can Paul do?

    Everything I said in the second example in the article.

    What happens is I lose favor with my least attractive women. If I have one or two too many fb’s, what ends up happening, is I can’t get hard for the one or two least attractive women in my roster.

    I’ve definitely had that problem as well (though I don’t have trouble getting hard, I’m just not excited about them anymore), but that’s a good problem to have. That means you’re doing everything right.

    This is one of the most important articles that really doesn’t have a good solution. Once you are sexually bored with a woman you should let her go.

    Agree, though there are possible exceptions (like a live-in OLTR who is doing everything else right, since a live-in OLTR is not just about sex).

    If you feel this way about an FB or MLTR, absolutely, (nicely) dump her immediately. If you feel this way about a non-live-in OLTR, then probably.

    In my opinion OLTR status and cohabitation accelerates this process.

    Correct.

    Because I strongly believe pair bonding is damaging sexual attraction. The two are not friends

    Accurate, at least to a degree.

    Also BD described several times a scenario with a loved OLTR who brings much to the man but not sex, so he just fucks FBs.

    Not sure if BD said that

    What I said was there are scenarios like that that are possible and perhaps acceptable but not ideal.

    Most of the manosphere and PUAs advocate men not to move in with a women because over time the sex will decrease (sexual boredom & the thrill is gone).

    This is because those men are recommending live-in monogamy, which is an absurd recommendation because it doesn’t work.

    However, as long as a man can have FBs on the side, I guess it can help a relationship stays longer than the monogamous one because he can have sex with someone else in case his GF decides to restrict sex (because women love to chop men balls off in relationships, betalisations etc).

    Precisely.

    In a live-in monogamous relationship, her saying no to sex is a catastrophic problem to the relationship. In a live-in OLTR, you just shrug and get laid the next day.

    Only downfall I can think of from this is that when a dude begins to like one of his FBs more than his current lover LOL.

    KJ. This almost never happens if the relationship is managed correctly, as I’ve analyzed before.

    I can definitely confirm that almost all long term marrieds(5+ years) I know barely have sex, if at all anymore.

    So can I. Long-term sexual monogamy DOES NOT WORK. You are literally being stupid if you think it does.

  19. That’s my problem with the alpha male 2.0 OLTR system it doesn’t solve the underlying problem why relationships fail at the end.

    But there is a cold hard fact why people lose sexual interest, it’s the orgasm – or to be precise the dopamine kick you get when you have an orgasm or orgasm driven sex. With every time your partner loses the appeal (pretty much like a song that you like in the beginning and can’t stand after 3 weeks of listening to it 10 times daily).

    It’s not bad when you are in honeymoon phase, because your brain is flooded with oxytocin (the pair bonding hormone) because it counteracts the negativ effect of dopamine. But once you’re out of honeymoon the oxytocin plummets and the dopamine will fully kick in – with all the devastating effects on your relationship.

    But there is a way to counter it, that societies all over the world independently used to keep long lasting relationships stable and alive. It’s called slow sex or karezza.

    Like the name says you have slow sex with no orgasm at the end. This will raise your oxytocin level in the brain again and makes the bond more stable (some people report feeling similar to the honeymoon phase). It’s not that ecstatic in the first couple of weeks and maybe a bit boring, but once you build up enough oxytocin in your brain you will have orgasm like feelings during sex that last for minutes or even hours.

    There are testimonials of married people who went from a dead bedroom situation to having sex twice a day (you can have sex for hours because you don’t come).

    In my opinion there is no alternative to slow sex if you want to have a live-in long lasting relationship. I know, not having orgasms sounds harsh (“What’s the point in having sex without orgasm?”) but this type of sex was the best sex I’ve every had and I will not start a LTR again if the women refuses to do it in this way with me.

    There is an other alpha 2.0 type of guy who has written a piece on it: https://revolutionarylifestyledesign.com/dead-bedroom-karezza/

  20. Something changed. It could be medical but from your stories it sounds mostly psychological. Perhaps they were all women you didn’t care about but now that is different so you feel strange / turned off about doing too many? As long as you do get hard with some of them there is no problem.

    I wasn’t really looking or expecting an answer to this, but you seem to be spot on.  When I was fucking more than one woman in a day and shit like that, I didn’t give a fuck about a single one of them and basically thought of them all as sluts.  Now, I have at least some sort of relationship with each of my women and I do feel weird about it when I get too many.  Just not exactly sure why.  If I could pick, I’d change myself to not give a fuck and be able to fuck 8 women a week again lol.

  21. Like the name says you have slow sex with no orgasm at the end. This will raise your oxytocin level in the brain again and makes the bond more stable (some people report feeling similar to the honeymoon phase). It’s not that ecstatic in the first couple of weeks and maybe a bit boring, but once you build up enough oxytocin in your brain you will have orgasm like feelings during sex that last for minutes or even hours.

    There are testimonials of married people who went from a dead bedroom situation to having sex twice a day (you can have sex for hours because you don’t come).

    This is literally what I do with my women: we have sex for hours a few times a day when we do meet. They love it. It’s not deliberate I just take long time to come. Usually I come at some point once a day, sometimes twice if she’s really hot / we do something really exciting, sometimes I don’t come at all. She usually comes 1 – 2 times a day. What we do is fuck for hours but not nonstop, it is for example 1-2 hours made up of a lot of short sessions with cuddles / messing around in between. Then perhaps a few hours later (after eating / playing video games / going out for a drink) we have another round that is the same. If we hang out an entire day we usually do this in the morning and evening and at least once in between. If I see the girl 1 times a week or less often it is normal for us to fuck 3 – 5 times a day in the way I described. With a total of 0-2 orgasms each. Most of the time we have at least one orgasm each per meet but it is true that it doesn’t feel like it’s just about the orgasms, we have a lot of fun playing together and enjoying each others bodies and the touch and smell and the sexual pleasures and loads of kissing and cuddling. Since I am a very touchy guy and touch is my primary love language I love it. Would have been better if I had orgasms each of those times but it’s fine like this.

  22. I wasn’t really looking or expecting an answer to this, but you seem to be spot on. When I was fucking more than one woman in a day and shit like that, I didn’t give a fuck about a single one of them and basically thought of them all as sluts. Now, I have at least some sort of relationship with each of my women and I do feel weird about it when I get too many. Just not exactly sure why. If I could pick, I’d change myself to not give a fuck and be able to fuck 8 women a week again lol.

    Yeah sometimes if I have had just one girl for a while and then get a new one I do feel a bit nervous, perhaps subconsciously and it affects my abilities to perform.

    I am still not sure why you seem to think it is a problem? Is it that important to you to be able to fuck large number of women on regular rotation? If yes the solution is very simple: you dump or downgrade the ones you care about because clearly being able to casually fuck large numbers is more important to you. I have a feeling though you won’t do that which means it’s not that important to you, which means you realize you don’t really care about it. Am I wrong?

  23. @Crabrangoon:  “I’ve been able to stretch out the enjoyment by not seeing the girls as much, even when they push for it.”

    What you are doing is not caving in to her requests, which is alpha.  This keeps her attracted and working to please you.  That’s why it stretches out the good times.

    Blackdragon:  I believe you are leaving out an important point.  When your women know you have options, it sparks their competitiveness and causes them behave better.  It’s a sort of dread game.  How can they walk all over you (betasize) if you have another GF that you can turn to in an instant?

    I believe you’ve mentioned before that you leave signs of other women in your life, but you don’t ever verbalize it.  That is perfect.  No need to be nasty or controlling.  That would work against you in the long run.  Being subtle let’s their minds imagine all kinds of things that could go wrong if they treat you badly.

    I even have a “happily” married ex who blurted out she was jealous when I casually mentioned another woman.  The competition aspect is very powerful.

  24. I didn’t give a fuck about a single one of them and basically thought of them all as sluts

    Are you perhaps attracted to the idea of fucking lowly sluts, while your brain puts women you know and actually care about in a different category? A mild form of the M/w complex? Perhaps you like “corrupting” “innocent” young women, while having non-“forbidden” sex is less appealing to you?

    The BDSM community has lots of approaches to bringing out that feeling of sluttiness, maybe you could take a page out of their book.

  25. Are you perhaps attracted to the idea of fucking lowly sluts, while your brain puts women you know and actually care about in a different category? A mild form of the M/w complex? Perhaps you like “corrupting” “innocent” young women, while having non-“forbidden” sex is less appealing to you?

    The BDSM community has lots of approaches to bringing out that feeling of sluttiness, maybe you could take a page out of their book.

    Very interesting, I think I have somewhat this situation. I have discovered that playing some role play fantasies with some of my women such as her pretending shes platonic friend and one of us needs to seduce the other or a rape fantasy (women love this shit) turns me on a lot.

  26. I have such a high need for sexual variety that I get sexually bored with a woman the first or second time I fuck them. I have to use hookers as a result of this.

  27. This is the single biggest issue I have. I get bored with any woman in my life after about 6 months (it’s creepy how consistent the timing of it is in every relationship) and I start to slowly reject them – not wanting to kiss, can’t get hard, avoiding sex, etc. Even if I really care about them (the one’s that last a year or more). I’m not even a thrill of the hunt guy – I’m lazy as hell. It’s always a huge wake up call that TMM would be impossible unless I suppressed my natural biological urges forever, which is tragic to my well being. I sometimes think guys who tell me him and his gf/wife, whatever still have passionate sex after many years are completely lying.

  28. This is indeed a timely article. I’ve been with a woman for a year now, beautiful, tight body, loves sex and literally no drama. At the beginning, I was so hot for her that I was in danger of falling into defacto monogamy.  Now, I sometimes have to fantasize about someone else just to get off.  And she is stunning!

    As a result, I’ve been researching the hell out of the subject and I’ve found (perhaps not surprisingly) that female researchers have done substantial work on the subject of sexual boredom.  Dr. Helen Fischer, Esther Perel and Wednesday Martin, among others, have made the point that female sexual boredom is real and that it kicks in from one to four years, for solid evolutionary reasons.  They have obliterated the trope that women naturally seek lifetime monogamy.  Men seem to do a better job with sexual boredom, but its definitely a phenomenon.  As the saying goes, “show me a beautiful woman and I’ll show you a man who’s tired of fucking her.”

    The solution in a long term relationship?  The research points to co-habitation being a sexual intimacy killer, as well as falling into routines.  The key seems to be in maintaining a sense of separateness and mystery.  Sexual passion requires distance and friction, whereas cohabiting creates the contrary – warm, companiate and low-sex love.

    As I recall, BD and PF have their own bedrooms.  BD, was this an intentional act to create more “distance” even though living together?

  29. I am still not sure why you seem to think it is a problem? Is it that important to you to be able to fuck large number of women on regular rotation? If yes the solution is very simple: you dump or downgrade the ones you care about because clearly being able to casually fuck large numbers is more important to you. I have a feeling though you won’t do that which means it’s not that important to you, which means you realize you don’t really care about it. Am I wrong?

    Mostly you are right, yes and making me realize some things.  But it is a problem in my mind because I have came very close to “defacto monagamous” once, in fact I technically was for a month or so and never want that to happen again.  Several women fell off at once by random chance as all have since returned, but mine come and go often sometimes and for me to have too small of a number is dangerous.

    Are you perhaps attracted to the idea of fucking lowly sluts, while your brain puts women you know and actually care about in a different category? A mild form of the M/w complex? Perhaps you like “corrupting” “innocent” young women, while having non-“forbidden” sex is less appealing to you?

    The BDSM community has lots of approaches to bringing out that feeling of sluttiness, maybe you could take a page out of their book.

    I had to look up the “madonna-whore complex” to even learn what you were talking about and I am intrigued at what you mention and want to look in to more.  I have been very anti-BDSM type person, just nothing about it turns me on so I don’t know.  Any BDSM type things I have done, do basically nothing for me, and were done simply because the woman wanted it.

  30. That’s my problem with the alpha male 2.0 OLTR system it doesn’t solve the underlying problem why relationships fail at the end.

    No system solves that problem because it’s not possible to solve. “Give me a system that guarantees she’ll never leave me!” Sorry. No such thing.

    Instead, my system, unlike just about any other, solves the problem of the damage that is created if/when a woman leaves you. Under my system, if you get divorced / break up, your finances and sex life remain intact and continue on as normal. In any other system, they don’t.

    Blackdragon: I believe you are leaving out an important point. When your women know you have options, it sparks their competitiveness and causes them behave better.

    Correct. That’s why my systems work so well at maintaining attraction.

    It’s a sort of dread game.

    Not the way I do it, but I understand what you mean.

    How can they walk all over you (betasize)

    I’m not talking about a woman walking all over you. That will never happen in a properly managed OLTR. I’m talking about some level of sexual boredom that eventually creeps in over many years.

    if you have another GF that you can turn to in an instant?

    You don’t have another GF in an OLTR; you have FBs instead. That’s more a of dynamic with MLTRs.

    I believe you’ve mentioned before that you leave signs of other women in your life, but you don’t ever verbalize it. That is perfect.

    Correct. The only problem is that condition doesn’t last forever. Eventually a woman needs to know (and will leave if you literally never provide her with an answer, barring bizarre exceptions). This is yet another difference between OLTR and MLTR.

    I have such a high need for sexual variety that I get sexually bored with a woman the first or second time I fuck them.

    Yes, some men are like this. It’s not that you need sexual variety (since all men need that), it’s that you need constant sexual newness. Two different things.

    As I recall, BD and PF have their own bedrooms.

    Incorrect. We have the same master bedroom and we sleep together… but…

    1. I consider it more her room than mine.

    2. I also have a guest room with its own bed that I can sleep in by myself whenever I want.

    3. We have separate bathrooms.

    4. We have separate kitchens.

    And yes, all of that was intentional on my part.

  31. I’ve been with the same OTL for 3 and half years and we still have sex 4-6 days out of the week often multiple times a day. We also have marathon sessions quite often. We do not have a perfect Alpha 2.0 relationship because neither one of us is comfortable with the other having regular fbs. So we just do random ONSs when we can.

    I think a few things keep our sex life fresh. We are both super sexually charged. I only let myself cum infrequently. As I age this keeps my libido up. We also both make conscious efforts to please the other person and are always trying new things, role plays, new positions, new places etc. We look at each other as playmates but instead of playing with toys we get to play with sex.

    Also, I usually take 3-4 one to 3 week trips by myself abroad a year. On these trips I hook up with other women. She also takes 4-5 shorter weekend trips with her girlfriends. We call her trips slut trips because she gets to be a slut for the weekend. This gives both of us variety but also a break. After our trips apart we miss each other and our sex life is  re-energized.

  32. Is there a good way to explain the separate finances (like not buying a house together) in an OLTR talk? Women in general seem to scoff at that idea.

  33. @ Captain,
    Sounds great, probably the kind of set up I might myself have one day if I decide there is a woman I want to live with full time.

    Is there a good way to explain the separate finances (like not buying a house together) in an OLTR talk? Women in general seem to scoff at that idea.

    It’s pretty normal these days so I doubt you’d get scoff. Just say there is literally no reason to have it together. Also you should not buy a house on mortgage, only with cash if you can afford it and I doubt you both have that kind of money so one person buys the house and it belongs to that person and they set the rules. If you both have that kind of money you buy a second house where the other person officially lives but visit each other and or rent out the other place for extra money. You can have a joing bank account where you put some of your income but its the kind of account where you cannot go into minus and you dont put all of your income into it. Hell, you don’t even need to tell her how much money you make. Very easy.

  34. Hell, you don’t even need to tell her how much money you make.

    If you’re going to cohabit, the law is going to treat this in a particular way, which in many jurisdictions is highly similar to how it treats marriages. If you’re going to sign a cohabitation agreement (advisable in any case), the relevant law is likely to require you to disclose all your assets, otherwise you risk that a judge invalidates the agreement considering it “unfair”, and your prayer that the judge’s definition of the F-word matches your expectations will likely go unanswered.

  35. If you’re going to cohabit, the law is going to treat this in a particular way, which in many jurisdictions is highly similar to how it treats marriages. If you’re going to sign a cohabitation agreement (advisable in any case), the relevant law is likely to require you to disclose all your assets, otherwise you risk that a judge invalidates the agreement considering it “unfair”, and your prayer that the judge’s definition of the F-word matches your expectations will likely go unanswered.

    You are NOT going to officially cohabit. She will keep registered at her own place as I suggested in the comments above. This is the single biggest screw up most couples make and there is literally no reason to do this other than money but even so there are ways around that.

    Disclosing your assets is a big no no. If this is the law then you either def don’t want to cohabit or you want to move to a different jurisdiction where there arent any insane laws like that. My assets are my assets – its not anybodys business other than the tax man and even that is debatable.

    If you really must live in that jurisdiction AND cohabit then again there are ways around that like having it writing on your company or indeed having the agreement invalidated – this is the kind of thing I go for anyway if I would sign any kind of agreement with a woman relating to cohabitation or marriage I would put there the things I want and also write there that there is no possibility for it to be overwritten by any kind of law and cannot be challenged in court and if there ever was such a possibility then this agreement is automatically void upon entry into such a jurisdiction or upon a law passing in such a jurisdiction that could contradict this agreement for that particular jurisdiction.

  36. The law is sometimes fascinating. Let’s take the US for example (could be specific to a certain state, your legal system is insanely complicated): Domestic Relations Law § 236 (B) (3) states that “Such an agreement may include… terms and conditions of the marriage relationship… provided that such terms were fair and reasonable at the time of the making of the agreement and are not unconscionable at the time of entry of final judgment” (emphasis mine). How can anyone rational consider this law “fair and reasonable” I cannot fathom.

    “Your Honor, I would like you to void the agreement. True, we agreed in writing that our finances would stay separate, and at that time we had about the same net worth, but look, he invested his money and I wasted mine. Today I would not have agreed to have separate finances as he’s so rich and I’m so poor!”

    “Granted.”

  37. @Captain

    When you say cum infrequently … what is infrequent for you? A few times per week? Also you mean to say that you guys have regular sex where you don’t cum at all and you’re good with that?

    And when your girl goes on the weekend slut trips, did you ever have any jealousy or negative emotions tied to this, at least in the beginning? Did she ever act weird/strange when she got back?

    Curious about your experiences.

  38. Also, I usually take 3-4 one to 3 week trips by myself abroad a year. On these trips I hook up with other women. She also takes 4-5 shorter weekend trips with her girlfriends. We call her trips slut trips because she gets to be a slut for the weekend. This gives both of us variety but also a break. After our trips apart we miss each other and our sex life is re-energized.

    Absolutely. Extended time apart from your OLTR is extremely helpful to the relationship, and extended time apart from your OLTR wife is critical. (As I type this I’m in another country away from PF for about a week. Again.)

    Is there a good way to explain the separate finances (like not buying a house together) in an OLTR talk?

    Yes. Read this book.

    Women in general seem to scoff at that idea.

    https://blackdragonblog.com/2015/05/04/ignore-what-women-say-only-watch-what-they-do/

    If you’re going to sign a cohabitation agreement (advisable in any case), the relevant law is likely to require you to disclose all your assets, otherwise you risk that a judge invalidates the agreement considering it “unfair”

    Correct. Unfortunately, legal disclosure is required for co-habiting enforceablity (in most jurisdictions).

    You are NOT going to officially cohabit. She will keep registered at her own place as I suggested in the comments above.

    Yeah, that’s fine if she still maintains her own legal residence (where the electric bill is in her name). I call this the Dual Live-In OLTR.

  39. You are NOT going to officially cohabit. She will keep registered at her own place as I suggested in the comments above.

    Yeah, that’s fine if she still maintains her own legal residence (where the electric bill is in her name). I call this the Dual Live-In OLTR.

    What about just being room mates?  One of you owns the house or is named on the lease, the other pays part of the costs.

    Does that get around the insane marriage or cohabitation laws?  You are obviously not married to a boarder renting a room.

  40. BD said :

    The female caveman was hard-wired to be attracted to the father of her children only until those children could be mobile and fend for themselves by around age three. After that, she had no biological reason to be attracted to him, and was, perhaps, onto the next guy.

    But what about if the woman is a virgin?  Doesn’t she ‘bond’ with the man because he is the only one she ever had?

    It is widely believed in the ‘sphere that a loyal wife is a function of as few sexual partners before marriage as possible (preferably zero).  Traditional, marriage-centric cultures (like India) seem to believe this as well.

    What is the truth?

  41. What about just being room mates? One of you owns the house or is named on the lease, the other pays part of the costs.

    Does that get around the insane marriage or cohabitation laws?

    Absolutely not. You could still be liable for palimony, common law marriage, community property, and a host of other problems.

    An enforceable cohabitation agreement is the minimum required if you live with a woman as a roommate in a romantic context.

    You are obviously not married to a boarder renting a room

    But if you’re having sex and/or dating, the state/province can (and likely will) consider you a “marriage-like relationship”, and now you’re fucked. Welcome to the Collapsing Western World.

    If she’s purely a roommate with zero sex or dating, then you’re more or less okay, but that’s not the topic here.

    But what about if the woman is a virgin?

    Virgins are still women and still humans. No major difference.

    Doesn’t she ‘bond’ with the man because he is the only one she ever had?

    For a while, yes. Forever? No.

    It is widely believed in the ‘sphere that a loyal wife is a function of as few sexual partners before marriage as possible (preferably zero). Traditional, marriage-centric cultures (like India) seem to believe this as well.

    What is the truth?

    To quote from The Unchained Man, page 197:

    Point: “Studies have shown that women who’ve had more sexual partners are more likely to divorce you!”

    Answer: There have been two of these studies that I know of and I have examined them both. Their focus is not so much the number of sexual partners a woman has had, but the number of live-in cohabitation relationships she’s had prior to marriage.

    Secondly, the studies show that there is very little difference in divorce rates between a woman who’s had two or three sexual partners and a woman who’s had 15 partners, often with a less than 9% difference. (With women who’ve had an extreme number of partners, like 50 or more, then yes, the numbers do make a larger difference.)

    But wait a minute. Is a forever-monogamous marriage really your goal as an Alpha Male? Do you seriously want to spend the next 50 years of your life having sex with just one woman? Of course you don’t! Then why is this point even relevant?

  42. With women who’ve had an extreme number of partners, like 50 or more, then yes, the numbers do make a larger difference.

    Extreme?! Fifty sounds about average for a lively woman with a normal sex drive in her early to mid thirties!

  43. Fifty sounds about average for a lively woman with a normal sex drive in her early to mid thirties!

    No surveys ever report anything close to that. As a sanity check, you do realize that, counting heterosexual partners in a population with an equal number of men and women, the averages will necessarily be equal?

    Keep in mind that a normal woman, apart from a normal sex drive, also has a normal tendency to accept the exclusivity proposal a normal man will offer very early into their relationship.

  44. The law is sometimes fascinating. Let’s take the US for example (could be specific to a certain state, your legal system is insanely complicated): Domestic Relations Law § 236 (B) (3) states that “Such an agreement may include… terms and conditions of the marriage relationship… provided that such terms were fair and reasonable at the time of the making of the agreement and are not unconscionable at the time of entry of final judgment” (emphasis mine). How can anyone rational consider this law “fair and reasonable” I cannot fathom.

    “Your Honor, I would like you to void the agreement. True, we agreed in writing that our finances would stay separate, and at that time we had about the same net worth, but look, he invested his money and I wasted mine. Today I would not have agreed to have separate finances as he’s so rich and I’m so poor!”

    “Granted.”

    I would like to comment on this but I can’t because I have literally no idea what you are talking about or perhaps I do but then it doesn’t seem to be related to the conversation – can you rephrase?

    Absolutely not. You could still be liable for palimony, common law marriage, community property, and a host of other problems.

    An enforceablecohabitation agreement is the minimum required if you live with a woman as a roommate in a romantic context.

    and

    But if you’re having sex and/or dating, the state/province can (and likely will) consider you a “marriage-like relationship”

    I don’t see how that could be the case when you are clearly not married and she is clearly on paper your sub tenant. Besides how is romantic context defined and who decides this is the case? What if you have 6 tennants in your house who are half of them male and half female and you at some point kissed or fucked some of them. Are you automatically married and cohabiting with all of them even if perhaps multiple partners marriage is not allowed in the jursidiction and or gay marriage? This example just shows how much of a nonsense such notions are would be enough to wipe the floor both with the prosecutor and the judge if the judge was foolish enough to decide against you thus terminating his career as a judge.

    But wait a minute. Is a forever-monogamous marriage really your goal as an Alpha Male? Do you seriously want to spend the next 50 years of your life having sex with just one woman?

    Even if I did which I don’t can she guarantee she wont start looking old, getting fat, change her behaviour etc? Yet another problem with sexual monogamy promises.

    Extreme?! Fifty sounds about average for a lively woman with a normal sex drive in her early to mid thirties!

    It is definitely not in most places. It is true many woman have many partners early on or late on in case of late bloomers in a short time but in first case most of the time they do not continue doing that and in case of late bloomers they have a late start. 5-10 is a typical woman by her 30s in most places. If she continues being very active in late 20s and early 30s which most dont then it goes up to around 20.

    Keep in mind that a normal woman, apart from a normal sex drive, also has a normal tendency to accept the exclusivity proposal a normal man will offer very early into their relationship.

    Yes this is part of the reason. Also when you talk about averages think of all those women who aren’t having sex at all for various reasons (they may not be your target or possible range but they count towards averages). Then the numbers will be even less than what I stated as typical.

  45. Extreme?! Fifty sounds about average for a lively woman with a normal sex drive in her early to mid thirties!

    I stand corrected. I looked it up and it’s much lower on average, although the numbers vary widely according to the survey.

    One survey (link in the Wiki on “promiscuity”) gave a global average for men and women of nine partners over a lifetime.

    The distribution is quite different for men and women. A very small percentage of women have a very high number of partners, with most having very few. Men seem to be more evenly distributed around the mid point.

  46. I don’t see how that could be the case when you are clearly not married and she is clearly on paper your sub tenant. Besides how is romantic context defined and who decides this is the case? What if you have 6 tennants in your house who are half of them male and half female and you at some point kissed or fucked some of them. Are you automatically married and cohabiting with all of them even if perhaps multiple partners marriage is not allowed in the jursidiction and or gay marriage? This example just shows how much of a nonsense such notions are would be enough to wipe the floor both with the prosecutor and the judge if the judge was foolish enough to decide against you thus terminating his career as a judge.

    In many places, the law says something along the lines of “people who live together and who do things married people tend to do”. So she comes before the judge and testifies that you have been fucking, that you went on a vacation together, that you didn’t correct her when she referred to you as her boyfriend in front of her friends, and things of that nature. That is highly likely to be enough for the court to rule that there has been a relationship.

    To look at this from another standpoint, if you are having a live-in relationship, don’t be surprised if a judge recognizes this fact. Why would you think the judge would feel remotely threatened by making a ruling like that? He’s upholding Family Values, which is a Good Thing.

    I’m fairly sure there are only two feasible ways to do it: either have a written agreement with her, or make use of an exception the law usually makes and be married to someone else.

  47. that you didn’t correct her when she referred to you as her boyfriend in front of her friends

    Can she prove that in court?

    Things that married people tend to do? You mean drama and lack of sex? Yeah we did have sex and didnt have drama much so we arent married. Also… fucking? Well what if I told you I fucked 100 other chicks are they all my wives now? It would be a theatre in the court room and Id wipe the floor with her and her lawyer.

    He’s upholding Family Values, which is a Good Thing.

    Upholding family values by saying that my tennant who I fucked a few times is my wife? Really? That is precisely why he should be threatened, clearly he is working against that.

    I’m fairly sure there are only two feasible ways to do it: either have a written agreement with her, or make use of an exception the law usually makes and be married to someone else.

    Or just not be married and have the house on you and her as tennant or live elsewhere and laugh at everyone and wipe the floor with them in court if they try anything else.

  48. Can she prove that in court?

    Stop thinking judges and the court system are rational and logical.

    All she has to say is she was a sublet tenant so there was a guarantee to you that she paid her half of the expenses…and you just set the precedent that everything was split 50/50. Which means ending the relationship everything will be split 50/50.

    And the biggest thing married couples do together is live together (which you are in this example) and share finances (splitting rent for a place to share in this example)

    This example would easily be considered a common law marriage.

  49. All she has to say is she was a sublet tenant so there was a guarantee to you that she paid her half of the expenses…and you just set the precedent that everything was split 50/50. Which means ending the relationship everything will be split 50/50.

    What are you talking about? who said anything about 50 50? You can make her pay some arbitrary amount – can be more than 50 or some symbolic tiny sum. What if you own the house? I am not sure why every time someone comes up with a counter argument it is some extremely specific case?

    And the biggest thing married couples do together is live together (which you are in this example) and share finances (splitting rent for a place to share in this example)

    So do flatmates. The fact she was paying me rent shes clearly that and not a wife – do married couples have a lease contract for the house they live together in? Hilarious is that is gonna be her main argument.

    This example would easily be considered a common law marriage.

    There is nothing in this example that has anything to do with marriage even remotely. Any judge that claims otherwise is a clear case of either bribery or unfit for the position of being a judge which automatically makes it a mistrial. The judge then is looking for investigation into corruption and possible jail time if proven or at best his career is severely damaged.
    All you have to do is show he contradicts himself like in the above as I described and then make an official request for a mistrial on the basis of judge being compromised / unfit for the position.

  50. some symbolic tiny sum

    Except contracts have to be secured by an amount the judge considers reasonable or he can throw it out. Been there, done that.

     

    make an official request for a mistrial

    Mistrial in a civil case? Lol

  51. lol at alpha omega. Judges are gonna white knight, no getting past that.

    As I’ve stated previously, the only way I think you can possibly get away “Scott free” is if you live in a house or apartment that is under her name and you don’t have have any mail sent there.

    Even then, she can possibly argue her case in court and the judge can still take her word against yours. Maybe she has pictures of you and her hugging or something. Or she comes up with witnesses who corroborate that you two were a couple that lived together.

    All this can easily be avoided if she thinks you’re broke and/or she makes more than you. Or as you said, never move in with a woman. But good luck with that. For most men this is impossible to avoid, especially as they get older. BD even wrote an article about this.

    https://blackdragonblog.com/2014/08/28/why-get-a-prenup-at-all-why-move-in-with-a-woman-at-all/

     

  52. Except contracts have to be secured by an amount the judge considers reasonable or he can throw it out. Been there, done that.

    It is not up to a judge to decide what sum is reasonable. As a house owner that is up to me to decide and I can charge whatever I like. If the judge thinks he can disagree I will take him down and get his house searched and have it all over the press he is being investigated for corruption.

    Judges are gonna white knight, no getting past that.

    They can try and I am gonna get them charged with corruption, no getting past that.

    Even then, she can possibly argue her case in court and the judge can still take her word against yours. Maybe she has pictures of you and her hugging or something. Or she comes up with witnesses who corroborate that you two were a couple that lived together.

    It is not about her or my word. You seem to think it is about opinion.

  53. It is not up to a judge to decide what sum is reasonable.

    Look up the term “unconscionable”. The judges are doing exactly that. Maybe you could take on one, for practice and entertainment purposes, and tell us how it goes? It would be great if the world worked like you described, but I highly doubt that.

  54. I stand corrected. I looked it up and it’s much lower on average, although the numbers vary widely according to the survey.

    I know. You fell in to the trap of listening to manosphere Societal Programming about “sluts” and so forth. It’s just as false as normal SP.

    Westerners don’t have a lot of sex. Read this.

  55. You fell in to the trap of listening to manosphere Societal Programming about “sluts” and so forth. It’s just as false as normal SP.

    Westerners don’t have a lot of sex

    I think this SP is partly, at least for me, where jealousy comes from too.

    It helped me to realize that if she’s fucking me, even if she fucks the occasional other dude (even regularly), that it’s because she WANTS to fuck me…not because she’s a slut that’s “easy” (because most women have a pretty low notch count in reality)

    Not sure I said that in a way that makes sense, but it sure helped with my alpha 1.0 jealousy issues.

  56. Look up the term “unconscionable”. The judges are doing exactly that. Maybe you could take on one, for practice and entertainment purposes, and tell us how it goes? It would be great if the world worked like you described, but I highly doubt that.

    On the other hand, I think you guys are total pussies about this and the fact you would not exactly behave with the courts and the women the way I described is exactly the reason such laws exists and why women and judges get away with it and why the civilization is collapsing.

    If there is no law saying I cannot charge a sum outside of some limits there is no legal away to use this in court. If they wanna do that they need to change the law first. Simple as that. A judge saying the contrary is laughable and clear case of him being unfit for the role. A judge has to uphold the law, not make some random crap up. That is literally his job. Talking about such scenarios is like talking about being kidnapped by the mafia and then being forced to give your girlfriend money because the mafia poses as a judge – in both cases they operate outside the law. And if your counter argument is that it has happened in the past that judged ruled in such a way and it was accepted it only proves my point that the guy was too much of a pussy to challenge this on a legal ground and have the judge investigated for corruption and drug use.

  57. You fell in to the trap of listening to manosphere Societal Programming about “sluts” and so forth. It’s just as false as normal SP.

    Westerners don’t have a lot of sex

    I think this SP is partly, at least for me, where jealousy comes from too.

    It helped me to realize that if she’s fucking me, even if she fucks the occasional other dude (even regularly), that it’s because she WANTS to fuck me…not because she’s a slut that’s “easy” (because most women have a pretty low notch count in reality)

    Not sure I said that in a way that makes sense, but it sure helped with my alpha 1.0 jealousy issues.

    Yes most women didnt have many partners and don’t want to. And if they did it was during “a time period” which they don’t wanna do anymore. Remember most women do serial monogamy and often have long streaks of no sex.

    Also remember that when it comes to being easy most women are easy only for certain type of men and in certain situations (both relatively rare) and those real sluts that are easy for nearly everyone are extremely ultra rare (if they weren’t most guys would be getting laid left and right and blogs like this wouldn’t exists). Which exactly is the reason why you can be sure most women don’t have a lot of sex / sexual partners.

  58. I know. You fell in to the trap of listening to manosphere Societal Programming about “sluts” and so forth. It’s just as false as normal SP.

    Hey! Some of my best friends are sluts!

  59. A judge saying the contrary is laughable and clear case of him being unfit for the role.

    Many judges are laughable and unfit for the role. That’s the reality. One should act according to the reality, not according to the way he thinks the things should be.

    I think this SP is partly, at least for me, where jealousy comes from too.

    Outcome independence does wonders here in addition to all the other benefits.

  60. Many judges are laughable and unfit for the role. That’s the reality. One should act according to the reality, not according to the way he thinks the things should be.

    Yes, but my point was that it is that way because people just accept it. However on a personal level I would just make sure I am not there in the first place, hence my original advice to have a separate living place where she is registered. If you think your OLTR would not accept an arrangement you want then why the hell did you make her an OLTR?

    Hey! Some of my best friends are sluts!

    Sounds like Don Draper meme.

  61. Yes, but my point was that it is that way because people just accept it.

    That’s true. And you can’t change it. So you have no option but to accept it as well.

    hence my original advice to have a separate living place where she is registered

    That should work fine, provided she doesn’t forgo it and spend all the time at yours instead.

    If you think your OLTR would not accept an arrangement you want then why the hell did you make her an OLTR?

    That’s also a very true point. I’m not cohabiting with anyone, and will not start doing so without an agreement.

    A possibility is an agreement that explicitly sets the jurisdiction, by the way, specifically chosen for its favorable laws and judges. But of course, it’s necessary to know what the laws of the place where you’re going to live have to say about that.

  62. That’s true. And you can’t change it. So you have no option but to accept it as well.

    That is very untrue.

    hence my original advice to have a separate living place where she is registered

    That should work fine, provided she doesn’t forgo it and spend all the time at yours instead.

    If you think your OLTR would not accept an arrangement you want then why the hell did you make her an OLTR?

    That’s also a very true point. I’m not cohabiting with anyone, and will not start doing so without an agreement.

    A possibility is an agreement that explicitly sets the jurisdiction, by the way, specifically chosen for its favorable laws and judges. But of course, it’s necessary to know what the laws of the place where you’re going to live have to say about that.

    I am guessing you live in the US and have no plans of ever leaving the US, or perhaps some other country that is similar and have no plans of leaving that country. That would explain your responses.

    I am in a country that isn’t my citizenship country and I don’t need to stay here – in fact I don’t want to stay forever just not sure yet when I am going to leave.

    If something like this would happen to me I would just leave the country and take my business with me. If some judge, girl and government think they should take my money I will take theirs on all that future tax money they lose as I will move the business to another country as well.

    In fact as this would be a civil case I might just pack everything and not even show up to the court and no one will know what happened to me nor will they investigate.

  63. I am guessing you live in the US and have no plans of ever leaving the US, or perhaps some other country that is similar and have no plans of leaving that country. That would explain your responses.

    I live in a country where, upon cursory research, the courts appear to enforce cohabitation agreements and prenups literally. But I’m looking into moving into a different one, and I don’t yet know what the situation is like there.

    What would explain your responses is a drive to Set Things Straight, which I find detrimental to one’s success. BD also argues the same. As for packing things up and leaving, that sounds way more costly than consulting with lawyers to find out what arrangement to make so you aren’t forced to do anything as drastic as fleeing the country.

  64. and I don’t yet know what the situation is like there.

    And who cares – it’s irrelevant…

    What would explain your responses is a drive to Set Things Straight, which I find detrimental to one’s success. BD also argues the same. As for packing things up and leaving, that sounds way more costly than consulting with lawyers to find out what arrangement to make so you aren’t forced to do anything as drastic as fleeing the country.

    Well it was more for demonstrative purposes – it does not matter to me what others would do. I am saying what I might do (if I had the resources and would have fun with it) if I had not or it did not suit me at the time I would chose a path of least resistance. It was more to illustrate the point of why we have this in the first place.

    I think you are totally misguided here…

    First of all, the chances of a woman actually thinking she can do this and then actually doing it and taking you to court in such a situation is laughably small, like small fraction of a percent – unless you are a famous rich person but even then its a small chance. This is different if you had been severely mistreating her – like really mistreating – beating etc – but then you deserve it!

    Secondly, the mere fact that something like this would be possible in your jurisdiction means there are probably loads of other way worse things with the law system there and or could come to pass.

    So it’s not like I am anticipating this will happen and I will just pack my stuff and leave but I know I have that option in case something happens, which is part of why I like to spread around with flags system.

    On the other hand, researching these things and paying a lawyer for advice and preparing contracts is definitely ridiculous waste of time and money for that small chance something might happen – I would simply rather just move.

  65. im 55 so im sure some of this is me but my last girlfriend of 4 yrs; she lived with me the last 2 , rarely had sex the last year or so. she was very attractive but she just didnt turn me on. for me, a girl who acts turned on or horny is a big part of what gets me hard. her attitude in other words. this girl was not affectionate, no seduction. she would just say lets have sex. i thought there was something wrong with me for awhile untill i finally started to fuck other women. i was constantly pissed off with her so maybe that had something to do with it also.
    the relationship ended and that was a big part. i felt guilty all the time for not being turned on by her.

  66. What can Paul do? Grow up. Boredom is part of life. We all want things.

    Also, having sex and emptying your bladder are not comparable because going too long without emptying your bladder can result in death. No one has ever died because they didn’t have sex for a while.

  67. Boredom is part of life.

    Not mine. I haven’t experienced the emotion of boredom in over 25 years. You (or your husband) are bored because you’re making that choice, not because it’s required.

    No one has ever died because they didn’t have sex for a while.

    Instead they suffer a myriad of other health problems. Read this.

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