Women leave men.

That is what they are biologically hard-wired to do.

You can’t change it. Society can’t change it. Laws can’t change it. Seduction or relationship techniques can’t change it. “Being Alpha” doesn’t change it. Religion doesn’t change it.

Women. Will. Leave. You.

Period.

Men react to this reality in one of three ways:

  1. Hate it, resent it and women, and rage about how horrible and unfair it is.
  2. Use all kinds of theoretical bullshit, this-should-work techniques and try to prevent the inevitable from ever occurring. (“Okay, if I marry a Christian virgin girl with two married parents and a college degree…”)
  3. Understand and accept it and integrate it into your life in a way that doesn’t damage your long-term happiness.

Option one is emotional. Option two is irrational and Guy-Disney. Only option three has any decent chance of working for you in the real world, and in the long-term.

Today I’ll discuss how you can understand this behavioral pattern and actually integrate it into your life so that it’s an expected and normal thing rather than some catastrophic event every time it happens.

A while back, a commenter wrote this:

I literally have an mltr who is now back with me but has left me for an Alpha 1 once for 4 months or so. The way you sound, I am doing something wrong or she never would have left me for another Alpha.

Yep, that is correct. Of course, nothing is 100% in life, and there are always rare exceptions to every rule, but as always, the exceptions prove the rule.

To be clear, I’m not talking about if she goes out and fucks another Alpha but stays with you or comes back to you very quickly. That’s not “leaving.” I’m only talking about if she full-on leaves you for one of these men. If that happened to you, then yes, you were probably not Alpha enough.

This is because when women have a lot of one thing, they eventually start to seek the opposite. As I’ve explained before, women are constantly attracted to emotional variance. Feeling the same things over and over again are fine for most men, but that is hell on Earth for a woman. If she feels bad all the time, she’s going to run out and do something that makes her feel really good, even if it’s inappropriate. If she feels good all the time, she’ll eventually self-sabotage herself, her relationships, or her work, to create drama and problems in her life so she can feel “normal” again.

This is completely unlike a man who, for better or worse, can work at a boring 8-5 job, come home, have a beer, watch a football game, and go to sleep, and live just like that for 25 years straight.

Women’s boredom tolerance and status quo tolerance is a tiny fraction of what a man’s is. Again, for better or for worse.

In terms of a sexual/romantic relationship with a man, when women leave, they go from Alpha to beta, or from beta to Alpha. Either way, they’re going from one thing they’re missing to something else. They do not go from the same thing to more of the same. This is why I have virtually never had a woman leave me for another Alpha, but I’ve had scores of women (temporarily) leave me for betas. It happens all the time. (And of course, 94% come back, for the same reason.)

When a woman is first with an Alpha, she is exhilarated. The sheer masculinity, drive, power, and attractiveness (I’m talking more about internal attractiveness, not external), great sex, and sense of adventure really turn her on. Whether it’s a territorial and jealous Alpha Male 1.0 or an outcome independent Alpha Male 2.0 doesn’t matter. It’s crazy exciting for her, and she loves every minute of it.

Until she doesn’t. She’s a woman, so eventually (weeks, months, or years) she gets tired of being controlled and yelled at by the Alpha 1.0 or the emotional distance or lack of Disney of the Alpha 2.0. The same traits she loved in this powerful man, she now hates.

So, she leaves.

If he’s an Alpha Male 1.0, he flies into a rage at her disloyalty and disrespect, and there are massive arguments. If he’s an Alpha Male 2.0, he shrugs and has sex with one of the other younger, hotter women he already has on rotation. (And he knows she’ll be back, so he doesn’t really mind.)

What does she do? Does she go get another Alpha? Fuck no! She’s had enough of Alphas. Now she wants a Nice Guy. A Gentleman. Someone who kisses her ass, takes her out to dinner, and tells her she’s pretty all time. Someone who will worship the ground she walks on and someone who will follow her agenda. She wants a beta.

She finds one very quickly since most men today are betas (which is, perhaps, the single greatest reason for the slow collapse Western civilization is now experiencing). She snags one up and instantly he makes her his girlfriend, which is what betas do.

At first, she loves it! After weeks, months, or years with an Alpha who pretty much never did what he was told, being with a man who slathers her with attention, affection, money (in the form of dinners, drinks, gifts, trips, or even actual money) being with her new beta boyfriend is a god damn dream come true for her. She plasters his pic all over her social media, quickly introduces him to all of her girlfriends and family, and she loves every minute of her Disney bliss.

Until she doesn’t. She’s a woman, so eventually (weeks, months, or years) she gets really fucking irritated with having a hyper-needy boyfriend who misses her all the time, calls/texts her all the time, tells her he loves her all the time, and is pretty much up her ass 24/7. The exact traits she really appreciated from this man now piss her off.

So, she leaves.

The beta cries (often literally) and feels like his life has come to an end. He tries to get her back 27 times to no avail and spends the next six months feeling depressed and stalking her Instagram page.

What does she do? Does she go get another beta? Fuck no! The last thing she wants is another needy pussy. She wants a MAN now. So, she hooks up with another Alpha. Or, if the last Alpha was an Alpha 2.0, she goes right back to him instead, since going to him is much easier than finding a new Alpha, which is a difficult process for most women, involving lots of tedious first dates, needy guys, jerks, and a bunch of frustration. The more difficult dating becomes for women, the better it is for us Alpha Male 2.0s. (And it’s a very good time to be an Alpha 2.0 right now. And it will get even better.)

Back and forth she goes, on and on, between Alphas and betas, often for decades. As she gets older, the time with each man expands, but she still doesn’t stop leaving them.

Sometimes she even marries one of her beta males, has a few kids, and then divorces his ass for an Alpha, and continues the forever back-and-forth beta/Alpha dance.

She keeps doing this until she hits her early sixties or so. At that point, she knows her sexual attractiveness isn’t what it used to be, and she’s not really interested in sex that much anyway, so whatever guy she’s currently with (usually a beta), she just puts up with.

Here’s how all of this ties back to you. If a woman leaves you for an Alpha, guess what that means? What kind of picture do you think you were presenting this woman? Alpha, or beta? Beta, of course.

The reverse is also true. If the vast majority of women leave you for total beta males, this is a very good sign. That means you’re the Alpha, otherwise she’d be going for other Alphas. Even better, if you’re an Alpha 2.0, there’s around a 94% chance she’ll come back to you in a little while, which means she really didn’t leave you. She just took a little break.

Again, there are odd exceptions to this. There are times a woman can leave an Alpha for an uber-Alpha, just like there are extreme Dominants who leave betas for even more submissive betas. But again, these are the exceptions.

Your goal is not to keep a woman with you forever. That’s not in the cards. Instead, your goal is to ensure that:

  1. When she leaves, she leaves you for unattractive beta males. This ensures that…
  2. She’ll eventually be back.

206 Comments on “Why Women (Temporarily) Leave You

  1. This is true but hard to accept

    One of my girls, we had a bad break up when we were drunk but she kept me on social media for a few months. I ended it. I was more the territorial/jealous alpha.

    She’s now removed me of all SM after 3 months. Is there anything I can do to add her back to the rotation? Last time we spoke she tried to friendzone me, so I stopped the conversation.

  2. I have not had a problem with the leaving, per se.  I’ve understood and accepted this fact for years, especially after having had coaching from BD.

    My only wish is that women would be honest about it.  I believe it would be a lot more productive and wholesome if all of us could stop pretending and instead embrace reality.

  3. My only wish is that women would be honest about it. I believe it would be a lot more productive and wholesome if all of us could stop pretending and instead embrace reality.

    Blunt honesty about highly emotional issues requires a high degree of both objectivity and logic. Some women can pull that off but most can’t regardless of how smart they are. (Exhibit A: Sabrina’s comments in the last few threads.) You’re going to have to accept that even highly intelligent women are going to pretend to live in a fantasy world about this stuff in order to conform to Societal Programming, Disney, family pressures, and to protect their own egos.

    But just because they do doesn’t mean you have to.

  4. How would you define “leaving”? Does taking some months of distance or little to no contact count as leaving?

    Do polyamorous / relationship anarchist women behave differently or do they always leave too?

  5. @Paul C

    They can’t. Women are utterly incapable of self-criticism. Everything she thinks about you, her and the relationship will be conveniently filtered out to sound like she’s the victim (or at least nothing is her fault) and that you are responsible for everything that happened (at least partially).

    They break up the relationships (more than 60-70% of them). When you leave someone it’s either a) You think you can do better b) There’s already someone else. They fear that being honest about it will make them look as “evil, heartless bitches” and losing social status scares the shit out of women.

  6. hmm, my current MLTR I have known (but not dated) for a very long time. She definitely did alpha – beta toggling for quite a few boyfriends but then has seemed to do alpha – nothing toggling for some time since, with 1 – 2 year breaks between fairly alpha type boyfriends.  I remember some women from my early days who seemed to do the opposite, doing beta – nothing toggling (more likely beta – wild phase toggling but just kept it very hidden from the social circle).

     

  7. The quote in your post here was from me.  I was LSNFTE by this woman first for a beta for a month.  Second time, for an extreme Alpha (no job, or home, and always in jail) for 4 months.  She just LSNFTE me 3 weeks ago, got with a beta for a week, and is now back to me again.  So I understand what you are saying here, and I don’t think I’m totally an exception, so something was going on to cause her to leave that one time for an Alpha, or perhaps it was because he was so much more Alpha than me.  She has since been back with me for almost a year if I don’t count the week she left me 3 weeks ago, and I’ve been with her overall, almost 3 years.  She is MLTR and I have 2-3 other FB currently.

    The extreme Alpha brought in tons of drama to her life, constant ups and downs.  Cheating, fighting, etc.  she took him on at a time where things were very low drama and perhaps to her, “boring” with me even though I was not being beta in my opinion.  However I was not giving her drama and excitement on that kind of level.  Things were sort of routine, come over, drink, lots of sex, spend the night, see her again next week.

  8. Thank you, A million times thank you. I”ve never put any thought about this topic at all..

    It makes everything so much clearer and more obvious. How many days figuring out what was going on….

    I owe you one Blackdragon.

    Have a good one.

  9. How would you define “leaving”?

    She doesn’t see you in person for more than 1-2 weeks.

    Does taking some months of distance or little to no contact count as leaving?

    Yep.

    Do polyamorous / relationship anarchist women behave differently or do they always leave too?

    Of course. Poly women have the same biological wiring as any other women and eventually get bored or frustrated with a man just like any other woman. I don’t know what “relationship anarchist” means.

  10. This might just be one of your best posts I have ever read.  Or in a long time. After using your system now more regularly the past year or 2, I can say it is true and works no doubt.

    What is funny is that now after I have seen this in action over and over again countless time that now I actually WANT it (woman leave me temporarily) to happen!  It is almost like it confirms for me that I am being Alpha 2 enough so I now will just lean back, smile, and set the timer lol.  So what used to be a moment of stress and heartache is now a moment of accomplishment and affirmation!!

    Additionally, in a odd way, by women doing this to us men, it helps keep us our feet, dating others, staying in shape, motivated and not as needy too.  So I see it as a blessing almost.

    This post and concept of women doing this also reminds me of a book called ‘The Obstacle IS The Way”. What many see as a flaw of Women, now I see it as a Blessing to my life and happiness!

    I now WANT them to leave me temporarily lol =))

    Actually, would you not agree BD that in some ways, it seems almost impossible to illustrate a man’s Alpha “2.0 part” to a woman until she does leave?  Then she will see how different and laid back you act to her leaving and realize, you are not like all the others.   So we actually need them to leave at least once in order to reach the full “male 2.0” frustration level that drives them insanely mad and attracted to us.  It baffles them, frustrates them, and turns them on like crazy when we just say “OK, ttyl” and nothing else lol.  I know personally, that I never feel fully 2.0 (with a woman) until they leave at least 1 time….

     

  11. Another great post, man.

    All women will eventually leave and if she does stay for very long time it’s either a)societal programming but she’s already bored of you b)renewing NRE by giving her a baby(ies) or c)she can’t financially cope by herself which is rare of course in this day and age.

    Most women are hardwired to get bored just as men are hardwired to become sexually bored after a year or so into a relationship. Men are more loyal in our emotional devotion to women but sexually we are not. With women, it’s the opposite and the current era we are in in western society has brought out these stark differences between the sexes like never before.

  12. @hollywood

    Those are called Drama Queens imo.  I got a few of them on rotation now too and they always attract chaos but will tell you that they “hate drama” of course lol.  How cute right? lol.

    They usually will complain about controlling or abusive relationships too but HATE boring relationships even more.

    Frankly, they will always need some pain in their lives to feel alive (or drama) and if you cannot provide that pain for them, they will find it elsewhere.  I just flat out tell them now that I am too low drama for them and that they will eventually want to see other men during the talk (I say “controlling alpha men versus “laid back alpha men” like me when talking to her not the 1.0 versus 2.0 lingo) that can fill this void that I cannot, therefore, not being monogamous is in HER best interest as well.

    This will bother her and frustrate her that you said this usually, which is good since it raises her pain level and attraction to you while also putting you in a totally separate group lol =))  at least it as worked for me so far with the Drama queens in getting them to come back over and over.   The # 1 comment they say to me is, “Kurt you fucking drive me Crazy!”.     I love it when I hear that from them lol. =)

    Also, it is my opinion that you may have to insert some mystery, be more spontaneous and aloof with them IF one decides to keep them in their life longer.  But a drama queen is typically only FB or FWB material not MLTR or OLTR matierial in my opinion but not sure what BD or other guys think about this?

    So, what I do is try to have some fun with this and use her Drama Queen side to inject some craziness and excitement into my life too lmao.  Almost like it is my form of a Video Game lol

  13. I do feel a little bit for the married beta guys where you know the wife WANTS to leave but obviously TMM makes it more difficult especially if they have kids together.  I’ve had many a married woman come on to me looking for an affair and known plenty others that did cheat at some point.    Then there’s the wives that just constantly bitch about being married and show little to no interest in the husband anymore, even though I damn well they were probably the ones pushing HARD for it to get their semblance of security.

    But then again, these men made their choice, typically blindly going to things without the kind of knowledge we have around these parts.  To make such life altering decisions based on a fucking emotion never did add up for me.

    For every judgmental comment I get about my lifestyle (surprise surprise from married dominant women typically), I get as many people admitting that I got it figured out.

    Thanks for always helping keep men on the better path to long term happiness!

  14. @Smarty

    Let me get my popcorn. Sabrina’s comments should be solid gold this week!

    Hahahaha, some people are anticipating my comments now!

    @BlackDragon

    Blunt honesty about highly emotional issues requires a high degree of both objectivity and logic.

    And pessimism, and past relationship failures that feed into the said pessimism.

    I do have tons of “Disney.” My boyfriend also has “Guy Disney.” Unlike Caleb, I do not think this “Disney” belief is a fantasy – it’s still quite realistic, and the majority of the couples I know who got married is going incredibly strong (but yes, most couples I know do have minor drama in their lives – but mostly arguments about solvable, forgivable issues). Not *all* women leave men – plenty couples stay together until death. And no, not only the “1950’s” couples – my parents’ got married in 1990, and they are still very happily married. It is not at all difficult to find couples who have lived more than two decades together with no “breaks” or “living apart”. So no, leaving men is not what women just “do”.

    But, to stay on topic, I’ll give you my take on “women leaving men” – which does happen. I think women leave men, temporarily or permanently, of “extreme” side of Alpha’s or Beta’s. (“Extreme” Dominant and Submissive women also have very difficult time with long term relationships also); but rarely leave “mild” versions. As a result, the “mild” alphas, “mild” betas, “mild” Dominants, and “mild” Submissives, have high probability of long-lasting relationships.

    Caleb wrote an article on many women dreaming of “Submissive Alpha male” – a confident, Alpha man who is “beta” for her (because he loves her so much and cannot live without her). Now, many men also dream of a “DominantSubmissive” (it’s at the core of Madonna-Whore complex) – a woman who has strong boundaries for other men (so she doesn’t sleep with any attractive guy who comes along) and is confident (or “independent”) for every other aspect of her life, but still “submissive” for him (because she is so overwhelmingly swept off her feet by his charms and cannot resist succumbing to his “power”).  Here’s the catch: a lot of men and women “learn” this (often unconsciously) – and they actually tone down their Dominant qualities/Alpha qualities for their partner, and these are the people who end up having long, harmonious relationships.

    Women do leave extreme betas (20% alpha, 80% beta on the alpha-beta scale) – they are likely pushed over, and have little motivation and drive – women do get bored with such men. Women do leave extreme alphas (20% beta, 80% alpha on the alpha-beta scale) – they are likely assholes who boss women around, or who refuse to give emotional validation and support she needs. Most women, however, do not leave men who stay in the “mild” zone. I do not see Michelle Obama or Priscilla Chan leaving their husbands anytime soon.

    I guess I can see some women doing the extreme alpha-beta toggle, but my experience with my friends show most women have a “type” they like. Some girls go for “extreme alpha”s over and over again for excitement, hoping it’s different, but end up in the same mayhem of drama; some girls go for “extreme beta”s over and over again for being “treated well,” but end up complaining about boring dates. But once these girls find “mild” alphas or “mild” betas, they partner up and don’t leave their husbands because mild frustrations or mild boredom can always be worked on, yes, for lifetime.

    I think marriage is great, and I think it works quite well. But it won’t work with extreme personality types who are not willing to compromise, for both men and women. I am very lucky to have a fiance who is (what I think) is a “confident beta”; I am also a very mild Dominant within a relationship. But interestingly, I sent the “Three Types of Women” article to my boyfriend a month ago, and he thought I was a hybrid of “Independent” and a mild “Submissive“. This goes to show it’s very possible to be a “hybrid,” and not be your partner’s source of deal-breaking “boredom” or “frustration”.

     

  15. @Sabrina

    Well, lets see if you can still have Orgasms regularly in marriage year #3 with your Hybrid husband without blaming it on him versus just admitting it could be partly related to boredom and routine as to why you don’t as much anymore.   I can hear it now! “…he wasn’t extreme enough for me ultimately…” =))

    Typically, women will say THE MAN needs to be more spontaneous with the sex is the reason.  As if she can’t play some role here too lol.  Then, if he tries to get her to orgasm but can’t he may get frustrated at her and she will feel pressure.  This “pressure” will conveniently be turned into “mental abuse” when she is talking to other men.   Your a woman and so you will eventually want whatever it is that your husband cannot provide.   If you do not like the extremes now, you will soon enough just watch and see.  You’ll be upset at him that he is not “extreme enough” even though you picked him out and knew he was not and loved that abt him then.

    So, set the calendar for 2022 or 2023 and let us know how “he changed” after marriage lol =))

     

  16. @Kurt

    As your response basically is a completely unfounded, random, and frankly rude, prediction about my future marriage/sex life based on your very narrow and negative view on long term relationships, I will assume you don’t have a valid point.

    Unlike Caleb though, I am not financially profiting from this blog so I cannot promise I’ll be around to give updates in 2023, but you can incentivize me to try if you want to bet against our marriage! It’s statistically 70% or more likely that I will be still happily married to my fiance by that point, so it’ll be the easiest money I’ll make. 🙂

  17. @Kurt

    You described it well.  She always needs drama and actually IMO they don’t require another man to be fucking to get that drama, they just need a beta orbiter or female friends for that purpose so they aren’t putting the drama on you.  This one unfortunately has very few friends so tries sometimes to get me in her drama but she has dudes that orbit sometimes too and of course the perfect scenario there is when she has a dude listening to her bitch about me while he tells her what a piece of shit I am and how he will treat her better, then he goes and fixes her vehicles or does some handyman work for her hoping that will get him in.  She will come back and brag a little that some guy is swooning over her and fixing things for her or whatever and point out that she has options, but when I say, well go for it then, she will always come back with “I only want you.”  But eventually she leaves me, so far she has 3 times but always returned.  Not for the orbiters usually, but every so often she thinks she found someone better and cuts me off for a while, like BD says, it’s unavoidable.

  18. From what I have seen women often leave me because they feel (sometimes wrongly) I am not fully into them on some level and want to be the one to end it and not wait for me to end it (I usually wasn’t going to). I guess I am sending some wrong signals there.

  19. BD

    two questions:

    Do you ever start the no contact period before she verbally announce shes gonna leave you? I mean if you feel shes interest level is lower than before. I remember roissy have 1 great article in older posts where he advice stop contacting is easyest strategy to “reset” the relationship. Im much more extrovert and emotional guy and Still learning a lot but I use it once with mltr a while ago. When I notice shes not so exited than before I stop messaging her. I focus on fb:s and dating new women and she contact after 2 weeks and I just continue the relationship like nothing happened.

    And then what is the best way to react after she say shes gonna leave? Just smile and say something cocky and ask her to leave your Place (or leave her Place)  in friendly and calm way? What if she try to ask to do something beta like giving her a hug or she start crying?

    Thanks for your great blog and books those helped me a lot 🙂

  20. @AlphaOmega

    I love to tease them that I will FINALLY agree to be monogamous…..but only for 1 month hehe =))

    It is kinda funny how this throws their minds into a frenzy….

  21. I love to tease them that I will FINALLY agree to be monogamous…..but only for 1 month hehe =))

    It is kinda funny how this throws their minds into a frenzy….

    Its not about this. I usually have that with women early on and had that with the one mono gf I once had.

     

  22. @hollywood

     

    Yup!  As one I have says, “but Kurt I only want you and I DON’T SHARE!”.

    She been saying that for 10 months now lol.

    Her, like many women, have many guy friends they use for something they want.  Most are in friend zone but she will use (flirt/tease)  them to take her out to dance or buy her drinks.  One actually has ZERO female friends! Only male friends.  But she wants me to be mono and not go out or talk to any of my female friends.  I see this Double standard a LOT!  I use it to my advantage during “the talk” too.

    So, you see, when they say, “I don’t share” it is usually a sign they are fucking selfish and have double standards.

    (Side Note:  I asked her why no female friends?  She said cuz ALL women are Evil =)) lol )

    Another lady has a guy she fucked 8 years ago living w her as a roommate and yet wanted me to be exclusive. She said she is not attracted to him and that he is her best friend.  They go out to bar all the time and I just act like its no big deal.

    So, when it was time for our “talk” 3 months later, I told her that a lady I used to fuck (ex or FWB) still has a key to my place and that we are “still friends” kinda.

    After 24 hours of a lil drama she agreed to try it BDs way actually because she saw my point.  So she is the 1st lady EVER to not leave yet after the talk!  (to be continued….)

    But this “they can have guy friends but I cannot have HOT female friends deal” has helped me wonders to illustrate the absurdity, humor and complications of monogamy as to how THEY will hate it too.

  23. Actually, would you not agree BD that in some ways, it seems almost impossible to illustrate a man’s Alpha “2.0 part” to a woman until she does leave? Then she will see how different and laid back you act to her leaving and realize, you are not like all the others.

    You do demonstrate that, but many women won’t realize it until you’re gone and they go back to betas.

    I think marriage is great, and I think it works quite well.

    Incorrect. ~76% chance of divorce if in the Western world. (Outside of the West, like in much of Asia, this does not apply. But this is a blog for people living in the West.)

    Marriage in the West does not work well at all. It’s a miserable failure. But I realize your NRE, recently engaged Disney brain can’t accept that right now. Perhaps in 10-20 years after a divorce or two.

    Do you ever start the no contact period before she verbally announce shes gonna leave you? I mean if you feel shes interest level is lower than before.

    I do not do this. I don’t attempt to read other people’s minds or foretell the the future.

    I remember roissy have 1 great article in older posts where he advice stop contacting is easyest strategy to “reset” the relationship. Im much more extrovert and emotional guy and Still learning a lot but I use it once with mltr a while ago. When I notice shes not so exited than before I stop messaging her. I focus on fb:s and dating new women and she contact after 2 weeks and I just continue the relationship like nothing happened.

    Yeah, I have no problem with the technique and I’m sure it works. It’s just not for me. I next women for what they do, not what they might do in the future.

    And then what is the best way to react after she say shes gonna leave?

    Shrug and say, “Okay.”

    Read this for the correct frame to use.

    Just smile and say something cocky and ask her to leave your Place (or leave her Place) in friendly and calm way?

    No. Asking her to leave is telling her what to do, therefore it’s Alpha 1.0. If she’s at my place and tells me she’s going to leave, I would just shrug and say okay. I would not actually ask her to leave unless she was actually giving me drama.

    Now if she was screaming at me that she was going to leave me, that’s drama, then yes, it’s time for an instant soft next. That’s of case of not what she says but how she says it.

    What if she try to ask to do something beta like giving her a hug

    Giving women hugs is fine. Hugging is not beta.

    or she start crying?

    If she’s crying because she’s upset about something you are doing or not doing, that’s drama. Instant soft next. That’s called crying “at” you and is unacceptable.

    If she’s crying about something that has nothing to do with you, perfectly fine, hold her and comfort her.

  24. So, when it was time for our “talk” 3 months later, I told her that a lady I used to fuck (ex or FWB) still has a key to my place and that we are “still friends” kinda.

    After 24 hours of a lil drama she agreed to try it BDs way actually because she saw my point. So she is the 1st lady EVER to not leave yet after the talk! (to be continued….)

    I am kinda unclear / confused about the concept of the talk. Its clear to me that there is no talk or explnation ever with a FB and also that the talk is required when a girl is to become a gf / OLTR. That is clear. But what about MLTR? Is that there a need for a talk with MLTR? Can’t I just continue dating her forever without ever verbalizing or defining anything? Do I need to ever verbalize to MLTR that I am still seeing other women?

  25. If she’s crying because she’s upset about something you are doing or not doing, that’s drama. Instant soft next. That’s called crying “at” you and is unacceptable.

    I find this kind of drama hilarious and entertaining. I usually start laughing when a woman does this. I also find crying women cute and adorable and love to patronize them. I would probably be like “awww you’re upset because I don’t do what you say, how cute” and I’d pinch her cheek and pat hear head.

  26. ok but you say leave do you mean leave for good or leave and come back?

    I don’t have enough statistics with this one to comment.

  27. I would like to know the average and most times the women have LSNFTE but came back.  Like how many times before they leave and never return?  Do some potentially keep coming back forever?  Seems unlikely.  I’ve had an fb leave 3 times, currently she is nexting me.  MLTR also left 3 and is back.  Others are all less so far.

  28. Hello BD,
    I’m a female who’s been reading (and lurking) on this page for some time. I’m not a libertarian, and usually don’t agree with you on politics, but I DO agree with a lot of what you say about dating (and especially monogamy).

    With that said, what are the signs that somebody (male and female) has a high sex drive, even if they haven’t had vaginal sex yet?

  29. With that said, what are the signs that somebody (male and female) has a high sex drive, even if they haven’t had vaginal sex yet?

    Are you talking about that you’ve not had sex with that person yet so wonder if there is another way to tell he has a high sex drive, or are you talking about someone being a virgin so how does such a virgin know if they have high sex drive?

    In second case I would say its easy, if you want it a lot / often you know you have high sex drive. When I was a virgin I had the idea it is normal to have sex once a day on average when in relationship and masturbated daily. In first case it may be difficult to tell because some people suppress it a lot before they have sex for first time with you and in other cases they may not show any signs even if they do not suppress it if you have not had a sex yet because they aren’t sexual at all when not having sex outside of, lets say they’re daily sex sessions. It also depends how much they are into you. I have had some women with which I was very sexual all the time and banged them every time we met for hours and I have had some women with which I did not have sex every time we met (but I still did other physical things with them for hours). I cannot imagine someone with a high sex drive who doesn’t do physical things with you at all for an hour or more every time you meet once you’ve been dating for a while so I suppose that is how you can tell. Sometimes when women tell me how it is amazing how much sex and other physical activities we have I am like well yeah of course what else and I ask them so what do the low sex drive guys do? Just sit there and talk or watch tv all the time?

  30. @Hollywood

    Yeah I think BD should make a Alpha Male Dating CRM + SMS reminders and follow-up system to track all of this stuff.  Or at least a spreadsheet.  “Set it and forget it automated marketing tool for the busy and successful entrepreneur that wants to fill his pipeline with booty but still have time to launch his 3 biz’s..”

    ie – If Chic # 1 does this, you do this XXX then send Soft Next and FU date to XXX.  Reminder alert for xxx.  Add notes, etc.  Add a pic too maybe oh and her name cuz I have forgotten their names before =))

    It got so nuts that now when I set dates I tell them to simply confirm with me on same day and if they don’t , I just forget to go on it or show up.  I don’t text em either.  It’s funny cuz they will sometimes text me back next day, “I guess I was not that important to you?”, which tells me it was a shit test.  But my issue is simply remembering what fucking stage I was in or what status she was with me etc.

  31. I would never know if a woman “left me”, because frankly, there are too many others in line wanting my time. The one thing women want is time with an exciting man. Focus on giving women time and when a chick disappears give her the gift of missing you:)…. you have a mission to accomplish in life… it ain’t worrying about what she’s doing. It’s none of your concern.

    Great post BD.

  32. @BD

    I think one of the most frustrating and complicated parts for me is in dealing with the anti-planners.

    They typically are only FB or FWB material imo but I have some that I have VERY good sexual chemistry with but horrible Logistics chemistry with.  They hate making plans in advance and even if they did, they get cancelled last minute due to some drama so it can be pointless anyways to schedule them.  ( I would guess that at least 50% of the time, these are alcoholics and very selfish as well)

    Even though they claim to want a serious relationship and a “leader” they really have no clue how to make it work with the Planner dudes.  So she may text me last minute at 9 PM but I am busy always and then I will shoot her a text in 3 days, “hey I am finally free and no plans wanna come over?” so now she feels like a Plan B or C, which she is and that is all Anti-planners are good for in my opinion.  But they hate it when the man reverses this on them of course lol.

    So, my question is – do you still set your timer for 4 months out on these type of chaotic anti-planner women that just kinda fade into this gray area or just never call/text them again and let them contact you back instead?  Or just keep doing what I am, which is shoot them a text IF I ever get bored and some unplanned free time?  lol

  33. @ Kurt

    You remind me of some women I dated who were like this including one, at the time, great FB who did this stuff all the time. She was a single mother so it was understandable but it didn’t really work for me either. She was great sex though when we did manage to meet though. I mostly dated such women when I was between jobs and had very flexible schedule. Other times it just wouldn’t work.

  34. @AlphaOmega

    I’m telling you this shit can be pretty funny sometimes.  I have one anti-planner lady I been seeing off/on for almost a year now that wants me to be mono with her and she claims to want a serious relationship. hehe

    Well, last week she told me that her weekends are for a) going to the club with friends to dance (her passion) or b) to sleep all weekend (her 2nd passion lol).   She basically gets wasted on Friday night has hangover or sick is what it is.  Which explains why I typically see her on a Week night lol (which is totally fine with me).

    But I was like, so you are looking for a man to be in a serious mono relationship with you that you will never see on the Weekends AND not cheat?  =)))))) lol

    She was like, “Kurt you piss me off sometimes….”

     

  35. They are also wired (or socially programmed, or both) to construct false narratives where their leaving appears as forced (by the man’s ill conduct, or whatever) and, at any rate, never a choice.

    Seriously, try to get a woman put responsibility tokens (like “I want”, “I decided”, as opposed to fantastical “I can’t”‘s and “I had no choice”) in her narration about things she has done, is doing, wants to do. Try, and see if you can make it happen.

    Any time she wants to leave (for any reason… which she might know or not) you will have to hear about some fictional, narrative-serving, misdeed and mischief of yours, which the narrative needs to feature because it can’t feature any choice on her part.

     

    [Doesn’t need to be as universal as a theorem, but I have experienced enough of it to doubt that it may indeed be a theorem. Of course many men can act along not-too-unlike lines.]

  36. @klkl

    I have and in 5 years, I can think of ONLY 2 times it has happened out of hundreds or thousands of dates and texts.

    One lady admitted to me that her 2 divorces were because SHE got bored with them and just blah. She choose to leave both of them for same reason.

    The 2nd lady admitted that she thought I was right about women getting bored with men more than men getting bored with women. This was in our first 90 days of dating and last year but when they LOVE everything we say and think we are Brilliant lol.  Now, as recently as last month, she says that this is not true and she hates it when I bring up my stupid stats lol.  Hmmm….

    Because of course, they are never part of the Stats and are different than most women =))  If I only had a penny for every time I heard that I would have 230,309,403,889, 012 pennies. Yawn….

     

  37. The beta cries (often literally) and feels like his life has come to an end. He tries to get her back 27 times to no avail and spends the next six months feeling depressed and stalking her Instagram page.

    I think Alpha 1.0s are less likely to fall into that kind of pit, but they can fall into it and when it happens the cries (as in “tears” and “shouts”) and tries to get her back and inner insanity are more powerful than the Betas’, due to Alphas having much more mental energy.

  38. women are constantly attracted to emotional variance. Feeling the same things over and over again are fine for most men, but that is hell on Earth for a woman. If she feels bad all the time, she’s going to run out and do something that makes her feel really good, even if it’s inappropriate. If she feels good all the time, she’ll eventually self-sabotage herself, her relationships, or her work, to create drama and problems in her life so she can feel “normal” again.

    This is completely unlike a man who, for better or worse, can work at a boring 8-5 job, come home, have a beer, watch a football game, and go to sleep, and live just like that for 25 years straight.

    I am a man and I would never stand the 8-5 routine-driven life men usually bear with. I like emotions, sense of adventure, and all that.
    But I’d have all “highs” and nice times… I can’t understand women’s compulsion for inserting some drama and negative emotion into otherwise perfectly happy times, nor can I guess what evolutionary sense it could make.

    I know this blog doesn’t take on the whys and wherefores but can’t help be curious about it.

  39. @blackdragon-
    this article is so on point. What if they leave and come back-do you carry on as usual or do you make them earn your affection back via sexual (eg AMS) or other favours?

  40. @klkl

    ahhhhh yes!  Which is why I talk about Alpha 1.o’s as “Controlling or Abusive Beta’s” (beta = clingy) when I am talking to Women or having the talk etc.   I have found that 3 groups is too much for them to process usually so I just simplify it and turn it into a Marketing campaign for myself hehe and label any group that is clingy, controlling or abusive as “beta” so its almost like a Beta 1 and Beta 2 when I am communicating with women.  Especially ones that claim they like them a good Alpha male but have been with abusive men before.  In my world, those are Beta’s and I gradually re-educate them that is so.

    So, next time they leave me to go see an Alpha 1 that slaps her, she will start to throw him into the Beta group and remember back how Kurt said this would happen and that guys that do this are Beta’s, not Alpha’s.  hehe….

  41. I feel like this article has been posted before bro, but it always good to read a similar stuff.

  42. I’m never quite sure where I measure on the alpha/beta scale — but I do know that women often seem to leave me for beta providers who promise them marriage and partnerships and joint checking accounts.

    I first came across the Blackdragon blog under exactly that circumstance. It was raging NRE, a month or so of meeting a totally hot womann almost every second day, and she suddenly cut it cold and said she was going into monogamy with a guy who promised all those things.

    I’d never really read manosphere blogs before, but I googled the word “oneitis” to see what came up. I read BD’s comments about no contact after breaking up, and it made sense. It just seemed undignified to be hanging around with this woman if we weren’t having sex.

    I never thought this thing about coming  back was a very likely prospect, but not to worry. But just yesterday, she popped up on my chat with a few comments. I asked her how her state of blissful monogamy was going. “To tell you the truth, it’s kind of boring,” she said.

    Oh ho. Well, would you like to come over for a plate full of freshly sliced manggoes, I asked. She’ll be dropping over some time later this week.

    Very curious to see how this goes. Frankly, if she comes over, it’s a sure thing.

  43. Females ain’t shit.  Overgrown kids they are and that is fine, but for God sakes, stack paper, have fun with your kids and don’t raw dog a bitch ever (again) once they leave you the first time.  Lot of dirty dicks they be sucking and fucking before they come begging for you back and if you are a kingly Alpha 2.0 then you are too good to get the cruddy bugs she can pass on to you second hand from lesser males

  44. BD writes:

    Women. Will. Leave. You.

    Period.

    Wake up people.  It’s 2019, not 1950, and this is the key to the universe with women.

    Once you internalize this, your life with women is almost on autopilot.  It took me a year an a half of reading this blog (and purchasing the “Unchained Man”, which explains it more in depth) before I really understood it.  Once you internalize it, this will bother you as much as the sun coming up in the morning.

    You may also stop entertaining stupid, shortsighted, needy ideas like TMM and OLTR (depending on your jurisdiction) but I digress.

    Understand and accept it and integrate it into your life in a way that doesn’t damage your long-term happiness. (snip)

    Only option three this has any decent chance of working for you in the real world, and in the long-term.

    It took me a long time to realize that if I allowed someone else irrational (crazy?) emotional state to dictate my happiness, I was gonna be miserable forever.  So I changed my mindset.  Caleb just gave me a little tip on what part of it needed to be changed.  Now if someone is upset at me, I objectively ask myself “was this my fault?” and either blow it off as someone elses problem or apologize and fix things if it was my fault.

    She’s a woman, so eventually (weeks, months, or years) she gets tired of…….the emotional distance or lack of Disney of the Alpha 2.0.

    This is me, and I get this a lot.

    If Alpha 1.0’s are controlling, and Betas are clingy, it confuses women if you are independent and are neither controlling nor clingy.  I used to get dumped a lot when I was much younger because this confuses women and speeds up the inevitable:

    Women. Will. Leave. You.

    Period.

    These days I honestly believe everyone is replaceable (and with seven billion people on the planet, why aren’t they?), which leads to –

    Until she doesn’t.

    This is the key to the universe with cats and women.  Don’t be upset when they do irrational shit for no apparent reason at the least opportune time.  It’s their nature.  Maybe they come back, maybe they don’t.  That might include getting her back if you can follow the single greatest piece of advice I ever got regarding women:

    I’m going to tell you how to ensure an ex comes back to you after she breaks up with you, nexts you, LSNFTEs you, or otherwise leaves you. I have used this technique bazillions of times on scores of women with success rates as high as 94%. It works like a clock, IF you have the balls and self-control to do it, and many of you will not.

    https://blackdragonblog.com/2014/10/12/important-ignore-breakup/

    To get this right, you ultimately need to get your mindset correct.  If you are having a good relationship with someone, that’s fantastic.   Appreciate it, enjoy it, take it for granted, be a jerk, whatever. If they leave you for any or no reason, this is equally fantastic because it opens up the opportunity for a better relationship.   Or at least one where she hasn’t blown up on you yet.

    It may feel like the end of the world, I assure you, it’s not, and pal, I got bad news – your mindset is a mess.

    klkl writes:

    I can’t understand women’s compulsion for inserting some drama and negative emotion into otherwise perfectly happy times, nor can I guess what evolutionary sense it could make.

    Short way – good news, you don’t need to understand it.  You just need to accept it.

    Long way:

    Another variation of this is the common question I get: “Why do women do that?”

    https://blackdragonblog.com/2016/01/07/accepting-women-as-they-are/

    I know this blog doesn’t take on the whys and wherefores but can’t help be curious about it.

    Actually, it does:

    If you expect women in advance to behave irrationally and be disorganized, and don’t worry about “why,” you’re going to be a happy guy.

    https://blackdragonblog.com/2019/02/22/justification-of-drama-and-disney/

    And, I can attest this is true.  You stop being mad about it, and it bothers you about as much as getting caught at a stop light.  You know the score and it’s not a big deal anymore.

    Women. Will. Leave. You.

    Period.

    Have I mentioned this concept? It’s important.

  45.   Lot of dirty dicks they be sucking and fucking before they come begging for you back and if you are a kingly Alpha 2.0 then you are too good to get the cruddy bugs she can pass on to you second hand from lesser males

    Hahaha. I detect a bit of a madonna / whore complex. I don’t require, or even want, my women to be virgins and I couldn’t care less how many other men they’ve shagged. If they leave, they’ve got their own good reasons. If they want to come back, I’ll certainly consider their applications on a case by case basis. No point being petty or bearing grudges about it.

  46. Females ain’t shit.

    Nothing says “victim mentality, level: Anger Stage” quite like posts like this one.

    Being mad ain’t helping your station in life in any way, friend.

  47. but I do know that women often seem to leave me for beta providers who promise them marriage and partnerships and joint checking accounts.

    It’s hilarious when women say they need something more serious and so they leave for someone like that and then few months – a year later they are single again.

  48. Hey Blackdragon,

    Thanks for an amazing article.

    I had a FB for over 10 months. Was Seeing here once a week. Made her orgasm multiple times every time we had sex. She said no one ever made her orgasm like this.

    Our last meeting I was a bit harsh with her and did not drop her to her place as it would take me additional 30 mins of drive due to road works, I explained to her and I dropped her near by to her place where she could walk to her place in 5-7 mins.

    After that she wrote me a message saying – I was harsh last night. I played it off cool. We exchanged a few messages. Last message to setup date she replies “I have thought about this and I think I want to start dating. So I think we should not see each other again although I did enjoy it”

    I responded with typical “I’m very sorry to hear that. I will really miss you, but I understand. I just want you to be happy. If you ever want to hang out or spend some time, just let me know. I’ll always be here. “

    She replied : I’m really glad that I met you. I’m gonna miss you too.

    What are the % chances she would be back ?

  49. @AlphaOmega

    I had one tell me other day, “Kurt I want a Real (aka serious one) relationship and what we got ain’t Real and I need that…”. (meaning she is having a hard time with this non-exclusive arrangement so far)

    I said, “well sweetie, I prefer Long-term relationships over Real ones and you can’t pick both if you are with me…” (meaning real ones by todays standards only last 3 years so)

    Her reply: “ugh you fucking suck but you make sense too and I hate it! ” :))

  50. Her reply: “ugh you fucking suck but you make sense too and I hate it! ” :))

    I had these kinds of discussions and comments with women as well in the past. They were angry but stayed. Some of them love it that they are being lectured like this and indeed some even wanna stay just need to hear some justification or excuse to do so.

    It is a slippery slope though, at least for me because I love lecturing people, especially women and it is easy to take it too far, which I did before.

  51. I have thought about this and I think I want to start dating. So I think we should not see each other again although I did enjoy it”

    I responded with typical “I’m very sorry to hear that. I will really miss you, but I understand. I just want you to be happy. If you ever want to hang out or spend some time, just let me know. I’ll always be here. “

    She replied : I’m really glad that I met you. I’m gonna miss you too.

    What are the % chances she would be back ?

    I have had women who didn’t really want to stop just wanted to make me do something else or test how much I am into her or whatever. Often a good thing to do in such a situation is to make some excuse to meet again / ignore her comment and schedule a meet and then proceed to her pants as usual. When she says she thought she told you she doesn’t want that you just shrug and say it just happened and then things continue as normal.

  52. @AlphaOmega

    I guess I don’t really see it as lecturing her (them) as much as I do a gradual re-education of how the real world works and a anti-Disney campaign (which does work once they see what I say keep happening over and over).  I have also learned to add humor and a laid back, silly or aloof style to my debates or talks so they come off more as a tease versus lecture.  The last talk I had I just was like, “I don’t have all the answers sweetie but what I do know is the current way is a complete failure and very risky for men…look around. Give me 3 people that you know its working for?”  (then shut up)

    But ultimately, I try to be careful about changing my ways to fit women too much since nothing will make them happy long-term anyways.

    Plus, I always try to end a tease or talk or sarcastic jab lol so that I am ultimately putting MYSELF DOWN to re-direct it as me being a mess or me having an issue with cheating etc.  I flat out take that shit on my shoulders and tell em….it’s me babe, not you!  so no matter how great you are, it wouldn’t matter.

    First off its true. Secondly, they love trying to fix or tame a bad boy so =)  I see this debate as a 2 headed coin (heads = men sexual variety and tails = female emotional variety) but I always try to end shit with Heads and jab at myself when I bring up the tails side! I had one that was a naughty girl and I busted her lying etc and after I called it out nicely and teased her abt it, I said well you are more like me than you realize. Who am I to judge you anyways sweetie?? =)

  53. I’m a woman and I’ll leave. How can I  best manage this? If I keep my intent honest  and don’t expect monogamy from him or me can I lessen the blow some?

    My best case scenario is we each have our freedoms and once we split it’s not great but it’s not a devasting blow because we had our own lives.

    What he does is ultimately his fault, but he’ll have abundant chances to better himself,  meet other women, have interests/hobbies–things that will stay with him when I leave. I’d feel terrible to leave him devastated and him having to build his life from scratch.

    I don’t think I could comfortably be serious with a man who’d let that happen to him. When I fall out his life, I want to be the one wheel of a many wheeled train not the other wheel of a 2 wheeled bike.

     

  54. I have had women who didn’t really want to stop just wanted to make me do something else or test how much I am into her or whatever. Often a good thing to do in such a situation is to make some excuse to meet again / ignore her comment and schedule a meet and then proceed to her pants as usual. When she says she thought she told you she doesn’t want that you just shrug and say it just happened and then things continue as normal.

    @AlphaOmega

    I am not sure trying to force a meetup again would have worked, as 4 days prior I tried setting up a meeting with her, she said ” She had cold ” but next day I saw her on instagram stories she was out on a boat with bunch of her friends. I already had a feeling this is coming. My guess is she has started dating some guy in her social circle and is enjoying her Disney moments of hanging out with friends, going out etc.

  55. But what about MLTR? Is that there a need for a talk with MLTR?

    Yes.

    Can’t I just continue dating her forever without ever verbalizing or defining anything?

    You can, but the odds of an MLTR literally never bringing this up strongly is almost zero. (Though there are very rare exceptions to this.)

    Do I need to ever verbalize to MLTR that I am still seeing other women?

    Only during The Talk, and only if and when The Talk is required.

    I would like to know the average and most times the women have LSNFTE but came back.  Like how many times before they leave and never return?

    I’ve never published those numbers because there is such strong variance that any mean or median numbers I would give would be misleading. I’ve had some women come back once. And I’ve had women come back literally 15+ times. It really varies, mostly depending on the woman’s age and personality.

    Do some potentially keep coming back forever?  Seems unlikely.

    Yes! But yes, it’s very unlikely.

    what are the signs that somebody (male and female) has a high sex drive, even if they haven’t had vaginal sex yet?

    There is no way to know. That person needs to start having sex like a normal human, then you can find out.

    I think one of the most frustrating and complicated parts for me is in dealing with the anti-planners.

    They typically are only FB or FWB material imo but I have some that I have VERY good sexual chemistry with but horrible Logistics chemistry with.  They hate making plans in advance and even if they did, they get cancelled last minute due to some drama so it can be pointless anyways to schedule them.

    Either next them or have several of them and always double or even triple book their meets.

    So, my question is – do you still set your timer for 4 months out on these type of chaotic anti-planner women that just kinda fade into this gray area or just never call/text them again and let them contact you back instead?

    I never do a 4 month timer. That’s a bare minimum and I do shit right so I don’t do bare minimums. Mine is a 6 month timer for women under 25, a 9-12 month timer for women over 25, and an 18 month timer for women over 35.

    I follow the same procedure for all women regardless of personality.

    What if they leave and come back-do you carry on as usual or do you make them earn your affection back via sexual (eg AMS) or other favours?

    I carry on as usual with no changes whatsoever. I want to be The Man Who Never Changes, so they always know exactly what they’re going to get when they come back to me; that I’m reliable and consistent and don’t get angry or judge them for their actions.

    That’s why I have a 94% return rate.

    I feel like this article has been posted before bro,

    It hasn’t. I’ve talked about women leaving a lot, but never the back-and-forth Alpha/beta pattern. That’s new content.

    but it always good to read a similar stuff.

    I agree. 🙂

    It just seemed undignified to be hanging around with this woman if we weren’t having sex.

    Correct. It is.

    Unfortunately it’s the norm with beta males.

    I had a FB for over 10 months.

    https://blackdragonblog.com/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/

    I’m a woman and I’ll leave.

    I know.

    How can I best manage this?

    I can give you the masculine answer to that question, but you don’t do it. The male answer (besides never do it) is to be 100% honest and transparent about what you’re doing so we know what’s going on. Send me a text that says, “I’m bored / frustrated with you so I’m going to go hook up this beta over here who kisses my ass. Please don’t contact me at all for at least a several months. No hard feelings. Thanks!”

    This is still shitty but is much better than ghosting or lying, since we know exactly what’s going on, and we can plan and decide accordingly.

    But again, you’ll never do anything like that.

    I’d feel terrible to leave him devastated and him having to build his life from scratch.

    If you date betas (and I know you do because you’re a female) there’s no way around that. You’ll devastate every beta male you leave.

    The only solution is to only date Alphas 100% of the time. Which, again, I know you won’t do.

  56. I guess I don’t really see it as lecturing her (them) as much as I do a gradual re-education

    Its not so much about how or you see it as a lecturing or not but how a particular girl sees it. Its very clear if it comes off as lecturing to her or not. Like I said it works wonders on some (they like it) and others get very visibly annoyed by it. I guess one has to adjust with different women a bit.

    But ultimately, I try to be careful about changing my ways to fit women too much since nothing will make them happy long-term anyways.

    There are two approaches: either you adjust to different women (maybe just a bit) and this means you can make it work with more, or you just have your thing and date the women with which it works. To me both approaches are fine provided you can get enough women this way and that you are happy with this approach.

    I’m a woman and I’ll leave. How can I best manage this? If I keep my intent honest and don’t expect monogamy from him or me can I lessen the blow some?

    My best case scenario is we each have our freedoms and once we split it’s not great but it’s not a devasting blow because we had our own lives.

    One of the main ideas of poly, to me at least, is that it doesn’t matter so much because I still have others and so I just shift the focus to them and also there is more continuity this way as there is overlap between the girls.

    What he does is ultimately his fault, but he’ll have abundant chances to better himself, meet other women, have interests/hobbies–things that will stay with him when I leave. I’d feel terrible to leave him devastated and him having to build his life from scratch.

    Another options is as soon as you know you are planning to leave you make sure you hook him up with a new woman maybe a friend of yours to make sure there is someone to replace you (not very important if he already has other women).

    I don’t think I could comfortably be serious with a man who’d let that happen to him. When I fall out his life, I want to be the one wheel of a many wheeled train not the other wheel of a 2 wheeled bike.

    Another thing is to be honest about it from the start. I recall in the past when some women left very easily after something they didn’t like I was like oh I wish I knew you were like this I would have treated you and this thing between us completely different from the start and then the impact would have been different. Of course, now I feel I should have learned my lesson and treat things from the start in a different way with new women so this doesn’t catch me unprepared but perhaps for the men with less women experience (or the ones with idealized believes).

    I am not sure trying to force a meetup again would have worked, as 4 days prior I tried setting up a meeting with her, she said ” She had cold ” but next day I saw her on instagram stories she was out on a boat with bunch of her friends. I already had a feeling this is coming. My guess is she has started dating some guy in her social circle and is enjoying her Disney moments of hanging out with friends, going out etc.

    That is different then. Then you wait for her to come back to you or hit her up several months from now with complete no contact in between. I had a girl who did exactly this and situation was very very similar. I got her back briefly about a year later after which she jumped into another relationship. Now I am not really interested in her again and have enough woman attention right now anyway but the point is she did come back. It is also laughable example of the stupid stuff women do: she left me for a meaningful serious relationship with a special person and less than a year later they broke up with her saying she had a stupid relationship with a stupid person. It’s hilarious.

  57. My guess is she has started dating some guy in her social circle

    If you suspect this, even a little bit, initiate the ignore her for 90 days operation immediately.  You almost can’t go there too soon if you think the jig is up and she’s taken up with another guy.

    She replied : I’m really glad that I met you. I’m gonna miss you too.

    What are the % chances she would be back ?

    Much better than if you did otherwise.  But I suspect you know that.

    And this is none of my business, but you either were really attached to this one, or got oneitisy, or are otherwise coming across as heartbroken and emotionally needy by your recent posts.  Just be aware that’s how I took it.

    OT: BD’s algorithm seems to decide that too many links (even strictly to his blog)  are spammy,  giving you a trip to moderation jail.  I’m gonna stick to one link per post max and see if that doesn’t fix it.

     

     

  58. BD’s algorithm seems to decide that too many links (even strictly to his blog) are spammy, giving you a trip to moderation jail. I’m gonna stick to one link per post max and see if that doesn’t fix it.

    It even screens some comments that don’t contain any links at all, including this short one: https://blackdragonblog.com/2019/06/24/how-to-handle-finances-in-an-oltr-marriage/#comment-410405. Not sure what the trigger words are, except obviously the word that means the husband of an adulterous wife.

  59. @IceMan

    “She replied : I’m really glad that I met you. I’m gonna miss you too.  What are the % chances she would be back ?”

    ===

    I think it is kinda fun to develop your own Alpha style in a sense and the name “Iceman” is a great place to start!  Imagine you have ice in your veins and whatever they do, just slides right off you.  For example, I have a painting of a Wolf in my place and it helps me to remain Alpha when my Beta side pops up.

    Now, I am a huge goofball (unlike BD lol) and I like to make this shit less serious as part of my style with the ladies just because I know most men will be all dramatic and serious when a women leaves. I kinda wanna do the opposite and be really laid back as if nothing happened and joke about it. But if it were me and she replied back with the above, I would probably (and have done this several times) send her a link to the Country Song by Kenny Chesney called “Better As A Memory” and say “our new theme song babe. sorry I’m such a mess;(“.   Then go dark!  But you will need to listen to the Words to the song to fully grasp what I am saying here lol.  But this has worked wonders for me so far and is now what I do when its a break up that is not all dramatic but more peaceful like yours.  Plus, it’s really how I feel because I would rather be a memory than her “official mono man” that she dumps eventually anyways so…

  60. BD (and other guys as well), even if your roster is full, do you still ping women who have LSNTE’d you?

    My question is…is it better to reach out to women at long intervals even if you can’t reconnect with them at that time?

    Or is it better to only contact them when you are available to meet with them in the near future?

  61. @BlackDragon

    OK, so why do you wait 18 months on chics over 35 when the odds of them getting re-married after 35 or especially 40 is supposedly like 2%!

    Plus, have you ever looked at their dating pool of men on the dating sites that they gotta pick from say from age 40+?  Which is probably age range they would date a few years older then they are.   Here in Oklahoma, men my age are missing teeth, on divorce # 4, broke, crazy, criminals, etc.  Many are damaged and on drugs or alcohol from a prior woman breaking their heart or beat the shit outta them etc.  I had an ex GF show me her Match account and the pics and the messages she gets and I honestly felt kinda sorry for women after seeing that lol.  I had no idea how bad it was here for them looking for “A Good Man” in their 40s and 50s until I saw that.  Its akin to 50K women all looking for a 2019 Corvette for $50 but they are looking in a Salvage yard lol.  Fortunately, I had the chance to live in other states and Cali so I have a healthier lifestyle than most men my age out here seem to do but damn it was eye opening for sure.

    There was one dude that wanted my GF at the time to call her and apologize to him for not going to a concert with him and cancelling =))   Beta’s crack me up…

    But 18 months damn that seems so long considering the Junk yard selection out here lol. Just looking at it from pure math odds at older age+more damage+more debt+more ugly+more fat+more unhealthy+pickyness etc etc and its like maybe 5 to 10 men in the city that might fit most women lmao

  62. @Kurt, I started to wonder why he waits so long too for the older ones, so I started thinking about my older women and how I’ve handled them.  A 40 year old LSNFTE me for like 3 months, she was just an fb.  I saw her posting sad dramatic shit online so I hit her up and she’s back in my rotation.   Therefore I didn’t wait 4 months.  I took the first opportunity, seeing that she was likely single again.  Now, for the 37 year old…  I NEVER hit her up.  She always hits me up as soon as she’s either pissed, contemplating breaking up, or has already broke up (usually she is about to break up but makes sure I’m going to fuck her again first).  I will likely never have to ping her at all.  So I am a little curious at the reasoning he waits so long as well, but perhaps because at the over 33 age, they usually ping him first?

  63. @hollywood

    yeah that or he’s thinking their ASD and Disney brainwashing is so high that its counter productive. But damn I would have missed out on a LOT of great sex the last few years if I had waited that long on some of these lol.  The magic # out here seems to be 3 months on low end and 6 months on average in terms of relationships of people around me and my own too.

    It also appears that economics might play a bigger role out here too since more men in their 40s and 50s may have hard labor jobs or make less than $75k versus a bigger city like Houston or Miami.  Couple this with this states high divorce rates (which means more child support or alimony and debt), mental illness, obesity, drugs and alcohol abuse and most men in their 40s and 50s can’t aford to get re-married or live with someone but if they did, it would be constant fighting over money issues probably.

    So, this means a woman hitting 40 that is looking for a Beta Provider male to take care of her (which seems to be a really high %) is much harder to find here than if she was in a bigger city with higher earners.

    Actually, I have joked w/ my buddies that the fastest way to get some of these ladies back in my circle is for them to hurry up and get re-married again  =))  Thing is, how many marriages do you see of people in their 40s and 50s?  I’m setting in a Gold mine lol

  64. Hahahaha, some people are anticipating my comments now!

    I appreciate the different perspectives here, thanks! I don’t necessarily 100% agree with anyone (or know enough to form a well-thought-out opinion), but it’s great to learn about what other’s think on these subjects – especially when they’re discussed in a respectful maner. I appreciate BD for raising these question/ideas, too.

    Blunt honesty about highly emotional issues requires a high degree of both objectivity and logic.

    Good point. Blunt honesty combined with diplomatic style communication skills would definitely be a very refined and valuable sort of skill.

    Quote from Buddha –

    When Words are Both True and Kind, They Can Change The World

    And pessimism, and past relationship failures that feed into the said pessimism.

    Good point. Everyone needs to watch out for cognitive biases, especially confirmation bias.

    I think marriage is great, and I think it works quite well. But it won’t work with extreme personality types who are not willing to compromise, for both men and women.

    I think marriage can be great for certain individuals/partners (sincere best wishes to all) who are consistently intent on creating a short-term and long-term win/win relationship.

    But for those whose marriages may not work out eventually (ie divorce, separation, etc), what would be the best (or least bad) ways to mitigate those potential pitfalls/risks in advance?

    Could mitigating those risks as much as possible in advance actually help the long-term health of the relationship?

    Thanks!

  65. OK, so why do you wait 18 months on chics over 35 when the odds of them getting re-married after 35 or especially 40 is supposedly like 2%!

    I was suprised to see this too, but I see a pattern – you are using guy logic.

    yeah that or he’s thinking their ASD and Disney brainwashing is so high that its counter productive.

    You missed “plus they know their worth” but otherwise answered your own question.

    But for those whose marriages may not work out eventually (ie divorce, separation, etc), what would be the best (or least bad) ways to mitigate those potential pitfalls/risks in advance?

    The two easy ones that come to mind are adopt are BD’s OLTM (if that lifestyle and business work for you), or what I advocate which is just don’t marry them you can’t get divorced (if it doesn’t).

    Could mitigating those risks as much as possible in advance actually help the long-term health of the relationship?

    Maybe, but I don’t care about the health of the relationship.  I care about MY health.  That divorce I went through almost killed me.

    But so much of it depends on your jurisdiction, and where you live dictates what you can and can’t do.

  66. This is kinda my wheelhouse right here:

    So, this means a woman hitting 40 that is looking for a Beta Provider male to take care of her (which seems to be a really high %) is much harder to find here than if she was in a bigger city with higher earners.

    So, address really matters here, but in my experience, it’s the opposite.

    I’ve lived near Bakersfield (which has the well earned reputation for being the best city in America to date if you are a woman, something like 130 men for every 100 women) and now I live near Santa Barbara (slightly advantageous if you are a man).  It’s tons easier in SB, plus the women are less entitled, and way nicer, and thin.

    I’d submit that if you are a woman who’s not fat, and very nice you’ll have a line of men looking you up, unless you are in Bakersfield,  In that case, you just need to be a chick.

  67. @C Lo

    But if its true that 40+ age women have a less than 2% chance at getting married again (esp if its a 3rd one), than surely this factors into their high ASD and Disney getting torn down some!

    Esp after they meet me! hehe (fellow ENTP /Debater).

    I swear I have had many women tell me how I shattered their fantasy view of marriage and dating and how they hated me so much at first for doing this but eventually it sunk in and they agreed with me =)  But that is usually after they hit 39, 40, 41 etc it seems and they had about 10 years to be ASD/Disney lol.  Coincidence?  They getting exhausted and nervous now maybe and this is starting to swing back the other way??  Kinda like how they do with leaving a Alpha and going to a Beta.  They do the same thing but on a larger scale with age.  20’s= alpahas, 30’s betas, 40s= alphas again back and forth until they 60 lol.

    I think many in their 40s start to realize too that life is too short to look for Mr Perfect and go back to the 20’s mind set of like, “oh well fuck it, I am gonna have fun too like Kurt lol…”

  68. But if its true that 40+ age women have a less than 2% chance at getting married again (esp if its a 3rd one), than surely this factors into their high ASD and Disney getting torn down some!

    It should, but it works the opposite in chick logic.

    Esp after they meet me! hehe (fellow ENTP /Debater).

    NTs unite!  I’m ENTJ tho.  I’m all about efficiency and execution.

    I swear I have had many women tell me how I shattered their fantasy view of marriage and dating and how they hated me so much at first for doing this but eventually it sunk in and they agreed with me =)  But that is usually after they hit 39, 40, 41 etc it seems and they had about 10 years to be ASD/Disney lol.  Coincidence?

    I’m older than that – Disney never dies, social programming never dies, fear of being the cat lady never dies.

    They getting exhausted and nervous now maybe and this is starting to swing back the other way??  Kinda like how they do with leaving a Alpha and going to a Beta.  They do the same thing but on a larger scale with age.  20’s= alpahas, 30’s betas, 40s= alphas again back and forth until they 60 lol.

    My philosophy is it’s best if they walk back into your life.  You know they are committed, you aren’t wasting energy potentially chasing them, and it’s on your terms.

    I prospect with vigor, but I don’t chase.  I don’t need to, but even if I did, it doesn’t frame you into a spot of strength.  Especially if she walked, she needs to walk back on her own.  Even then, you can never really trust them again because if she did it once she’s gonna do it again.  Kinda plate only territory.

  69. I don’t think this works as an exception to the rule. Most woment go for betas all the time.

    For alpha to beta sure? But beta to alpha is far more rare. I see beta to beta to beta to beta all the time(and occasionally you throw an alpha in there).

    Since alphas are rare it is very difficult for a women to hook up with an alpha.

    But in terms of what they want? They like to ping pong between alpha and beta that’s true but society doesn’t offer them that easily so they go from beta to beta to beta etc.

    I’ve also noticed that some women tend to have more alphas than betas in their life but most women have betas than alphas. This is also irrelevant of their characteristic(ie dominant) but it has something to do with their experiences in life, their circle etc.

  70. @hey hey

    IDK about the part that “most women go for betas ALL the time”.  Because some of this is based on what you or the public can SEE on facebook only.

    Well, guess what?  I have had 3 ladies in the last year or so get mad at me, block me on facebook and then are sucking my dick on my couch 4 weeks later.  One told me that her reason was cuz I was a cock block and the other says it keeps her from looking at my page lol.  Sure whatever you wanna tell yourself =)

    But I LOVE it when they do this because this affirms for me that they are indeed looking for a Beta and that I am the Alpha.  Plus, it tells me they are basically saying “yes” to my ways without really saying yes and is less work that I gotta do by liking her stupid shit or posts. ugh.

    So these ladies Betas (which you know are gonna love to be her FB friend) have NO IDEA THAT I EXIST NOW!  lol.    If you were looking at her FB page, one might assume she is only into Betas more so because you don’t see her talking to the Alpha that she is probably telling a Beta that she blocked. Which is true.  A Beta is going to wrongly assume that because she blocked her ex (me the asshole/jerk), that that means she is not fucking him (me) but that is not true.  So, you see, some women may wanna keep the Alpha secret or hidden so they can run to him to get a good fuck and relax and be herself.

    It’s almost like I become their fantasy novel or affair plan even before they get married or a new BF lol.  As a matter of fact, one tried to unblock me recently and it made me nervous and I wondered oh shit does this mean she is trying to put me in friend zone or what?  So, I told her that I think its best that I stay blocked for now lol.  I want to remain that 1 guy that is hidden and she can escape to when her main guy bores her to death.  And stay outta friend zone at all costs.  It made her upset for a while but of course, she is over it for now lol.

    Aside from this, if 80%+ of men are Beta’s, than that would mean that most women would have to date more betas because of so few Alphas.  But wouldn’t you think that those 20% of Alpha’s (prob more like 5%) are banging 80% of the quality or attractive ladies?

    So, its looking like the ladies are keeping the Alpha’s too but most just don’t know we exist lol.  Talk about fun lmao…

  71. @Iceman

    I think you should be musing over what are the (lucky) chances she won’t come back, not the other way about.

  72. But if its true that 40+ age women have a less than 2% chance at getting married again (esp if its a 3rd one), than surely this factors into their high ASD and Disney getting torn down some!

    It should, but it works the opposite in chick logic.

    It’s as C Lo says. You think, and I used to think, it would be the reverse of how it is because you (and I, before) don’t factor in “ego”.
    It’s akin to the sour grapes mind mechanic: the more someone can’t get something they want, the more rationales their mind is going to come up with to <i>not want it</i>. All while they still want it! But their ego will drive them to give rejections, still. The more they have been rejected, the more they’ll crave doing some rejecting — to feel reassured that they aren’t “losing”.

    Even then, you can never really trust them again because if she did it once she’s gonna do it again. Kinda plate only territory.

    Some gold advice there.

  73. I’m not talking about 2.0s. I’m talking about alphas and betas in the typical context.

    Women meeting a guy like you or me is rare as fuck. Far far rarer than meeting 1.0s.

    So if we are talking about these stuff we take the majority of people. If we take a sample of 100 women there is a high chance that no one of those women ever met 2.0.

    In the typical world most women go for beta after beta after beta after alpha after beta after beta(maybe throw couple of one night stands)

  74. @klkl

    “the more someone can’t get something they want, the more rationales their mind is going to come up with to…”

    ===

    Wait a minute!  Are you saying that Women really know what they want?  =)) hehe

     

  75. @hilsey

    You can lessen the before-or-later blow dramatically by knowing yourself (= knowing reality about your past, for example that if they don’t leave then you will before or later do it) and sharing to them your self-knowledge.
    It would be the most needed dating revolution if the first 3-4-5 women that someone like, for instance, I, makes his own universe were honest with themselves enough to be able to be honest with him, and forewarned him about who they are and their behavioral patterns.

    For a certain type of man, “love” is not just a drug, but (research has reached this conclusion, and I agree with it) like heroine. So you can take all the heroine you want and then suddenly and without warning you are put in compulsory abstinence.

    Most people can’t be honest with the other because they can’t be honest with themsleves.

    ***
    @kurt

    I think what I said could be put as: women have a fundamental need to not know what they want.

  76. If you date betas (and I know you do because you’re a female) there’s no way around that. You’ll devastate every beta male you leave.

    Now if women were more sincere with betas (who are the guys more in the dark about the woman’s mind and nature), this devastation would little by little turn into a rueful memory, but safely a thing of the past. And everyone would feel and live better; or would they?
    The problem is that women would very hardly be rewarded by the betas meant to benefit from their revelations and sincerity.
    I mean, if she verbalized why she is going to marry him/stay with him/dating him, even the most affectionate Disney beta would leave.

    So honesty mostly doesn’t take place because not only it’s not rewarded, but it gets a harsh penalty.

  77. I’m surprised by the men who deny the notion “she’ll leave you eventually.”. For men whom are logical thinkers, this is sad.

    This is Biology 101 gentleman. Diversity of sexual partners is programmed into our brains (Men and Woman) to reproduce as much as possible (hence why you’re likely to cheat). This is an evolutionary feature  reducing a risk factor of bad genes (offspring) from a single sexual partner. Essentially, societal programming is not going to eliminate 3 billion years of biological evolution. This sexual urge is hard wired into our essence.

    Just go have fun living a Alpha 2.0 life. Don’t make foolish decisions.

  78. Women meeting a guy like you or me is rare as fuck.

    And?  You think for a second she’s gonna treat you any different that any other guy?

    BD already spelled it out, so let me QFT:

    Women leave men.

    That is what they are biologically hard-wired to do.

    Being rare means its easier to bait women.  And, by inference, you are defacto gonna get dumped more too.  Get used to it, and your life gets easier.

  79. I’m surprised by the men who deny the notion “she’ll leave you eventually.”. For men whom are logical thinkers, this is sad.

    Social programming is a helluva drug.  Naw, there’s more to it than that.

    There’s something inside of men who want a woman who wants him, and that makes him happy to be with someone who is happy to be with him.  Almost every top 40 song over the past 50 years is some derivative of that theme.

    Even the most logical man will switch off that objective part of his brain if he gets involved with *that special girl who’s not like the rest* (who is still a plain old woman) that trips this switch.  While women will say “what’s wrong with that?” falling prey to this basil desire will leave you in a bad place when she leaves.

    And if it’s not “when she leaves” I guarantee you’ll change your mind and WISH she’d leave.

    Is your long term happiness worth the risk?  You have to get this neediness under control if it is.

    IMO mindset is the key, but to get there you gotta chop down a lot of big trees filled with social programming.

  80. There’s something inside of men who want a woman who wants him, and that makes him happy to be with someone who is happy to be with him.  Almost every top 40 song over the past 50 years is some derivative of that theme.

    Thats called modern society. Where the basic necessities are met (food, water, and shelter/safety). If we’re going to focus on that aspect, imagine yourself 10,000 years ago just focusing on hunting your next meal or starve to death. I’m certain you’re not thinking about “I hope she loves me”. You’re genetic traits of survival are still within you. The only issue is modern society coddles to our needs and make people on average contempt & lazy. This will affect mating as this scenario never happened before in human / biological history.

  81. C Lo did you see anywhere saying that women won’t leave us? I was replying to Kurt read carefully next time before replying.

  82. @hey hey

    Yeah I have discovered just how rare the 2.0 is by the way the women react when I have the talk or tell them no to monogamy.  It is as if they were cheated on lol.  A man telling HER no!

    Only thing comparable is a man breaking up with her if in a Mono relationship.  They don’t see that very often so they are in shock and ego bruised for a while.  Speaking of which, I have found this to be a great intro into the talk sometimes.  I will be like, “ok so lets say we are in a serious mono relationship for a whole year and a young hot blonde (or an ex comes back into the picture) almost makes me cheat but I instead manage to call you to break up first and be HONEST with you, you will not be upset at me?  You promise not to post negative shit about me on facebook?”  

    You should see the look on their faces!  lol

    When they word shit like, “yeah he (her ex) really pulled one over on me” or “He had me fooled” etc you gotta dig deeper cuz sometimes all this means is that HE broke up with her and now she is labeling him a douchebag and feels “used”.  What else was he supposed to do?  Cheat on her?

    But boy do they hate it when I do this Socratic style of question based “real-life” senerios!  It shows them just how dumb and 5th grade most of this shit is.  Now, many do eventually come back later on and might agree with me, aside from the Narcissists =))  Some will even admit they agree or see my point but they STILL hate it when I bring it up!   I think its because many don’t really want a solution to their dating woes or problems.  They need something to bitch about or to be a victim, which are all forms of Addiction is some ways to me.

    I have done this Socratic style approach in FB groups before where it was like 15 chics Vs me and it was fucking hilarious.  They would trap themselves in their own logic and when they realized what I had done, would resort to name calling etc.   These are great because I usually always get 2 or 3 women from them (80/20 rule and weeds them out) that are more laid back, open minded, more feminine and most importantly, not a fucking femi nazi or right wing Narcissist that resorts to name calling when cornered.   I wish those were as rare as the Alpha 2.0s lmao =)))

  83. Hey BlackDragon, what do you think of writing another one of the less serious “What if”? articles?

    “What if ALL MEN became Alpha Male 2.0?”

    It would be a fun mental exercise.

  84. That’s why I have a 94% return rate.

    I understand it’s good for ego, but why do you even want to start seeing again women who return? For easy sex that you know it was good? To me it only makes sense if she was one of FBs as you were not emotionally attached at all and if sex was really fantastic/great body. Although, for every Alpha challenge and excitement in finding even hotter FB and younger could be more interesting than easy sex from old days.

    But if she was MLTR or OLTR after few months of break up if she wants to come back I’m not even interested to see her any more cause I moved on. I already had FBs so I don’t need her for sex and by time she’s back I’m already seeing someone new who has a potential to be MLTR/OLTR, and who is younger, hotter and ideally more interesting than her.

  85. That’s why I have a 94% return rate.

    Maybe you struggle to understand this because you prefer to have sex with new women. I recall that BD said somewhere he prefers to have sex with women he knows. This is very strongly the case for me. Returning women are very important for this reason.

    I’m surprised by the men who deny the notion “she’ll leave you eventually.”. For men whom are logical thinkers, this is sad.

    Logic isn’t engouh. You cannot use only logic to come to conclusion that elude your experimental evidence and statistical data. For a man who thinks about how past relationships worked for most of human history until quite recently and is unaware of modern trends and statistics the conclusion would be the opposite. So it’s about being misinformed rather.

    IMO mindset is the key, but to get there you gotta chop down a lot of big trees filled with social programming.

    I am not entirely sure why but whenever I see someone post IMO then I find it extremely beta. Maybe I am the only one who thinks like this but the point is why do you need to stress its your opinion? Isn’t that obvious? It looks extremely insecure about what you are saying when you post that. To me at least, it’s not meant as a personal attack just a remark on that I find it puzzling people so over use it.

    Women meeting a guy like you or me is rare as fuck.

    And?  You think for a second she’s gonna treat you any different that any other guy?

    BD already spelled it out, so let me QFT:

    Women leave men.

    That is what they are biologically hard-wired to do.

    Being rare means its easier to bait women.  And, by inference, you are defacto gonna get dumped more too.  Get used to it, and your life gets easier.

    I have seen though that women who arent used to it often get confused by it and don’t understand it and even make wrong conclusions. I have seen this many times in places where extreme betas are the norm. Recently one woman I started dating told me she was afraid with me because she was so confused with this.

    I mean, if she verbalized why

    You assume she knows why /admits it to at least herself. That is a huge assumption when talking about women.

    “the more someone can’t get something they want, the more rationales their mind is going to come up with to…”

    ===

    Wait a minute!  Are you saying that Women really know what they want?  =)) hehe

    There are different levels of knowing what one want: there is a difference between knowing what you want and knowing what you need. There is a difference between thinking you know what you want and actually knowing it. There is also a difference between wanting something that makes sense and is realistic and something that doesn’t – many women seem to struggle with this one – for example: some guy might say he wants a virgin girl who has loads of sexual experience, likewise women often are surprised they dont find men who are manly and alpha with the beta traits they think they need.

  86. i know what you are saying in this article. But there is a 4th option – of being a mix of alpha / beta and using push /pull style , dread game etc.

    So most of the time you are alpha then sometimes you can do beta things and you mix it up every now and then so that you do not become predictable.

    Once a woman leaves you I would also suggest calling it a day and finding a new one.

  87. @Rob

    Yeah I have tested this too and it can work.  They usually reply with, “Grrrr I can’t figure you out Kurt…”

    Perfect. lol

    But I would go even further and take a BD concept of “shutting up” and I do not tell them hardly any of my hobbies at first but slowly drip, drip, drip them and all sorts of New shit about me on them during the boomerang part.  New colognes, new friends they had no idea existed….

    And I took all my hobbies and interests off my dating profiles too!

  88. i know what you are saying in this article. But there is a 4th option – of being a mix of alpha / beta and using push /pull style , dread game etc.

    So most of the time you are alpha then sometimes you can do beta things and you mix it up every now and then so that you do not become predictable.

    Once a woman leaves you I would also suggest calling it a day and finding a new one.

    There is zero beta in this. That’s completely alpha, you just pretend /accept certain things in order to achieve a result. Beta is accepting things because you cant say no or are naturally submissive / afraid of losing her.

    But I would go even further and take a BD concept of “shutting up” and I do not tell them hardly any of my hobbies at first but slowly drip, drip, drip them and all sorts of New shit about me on them during the boomerang part. New colognes, new friends they had no idea existed….

    And I took all my hobbies and interests off my dating profiles too!

    So do you just listen at the start then? and make her do the talking?

    Do you reveal new things when she starts to dubt / pull away?

  89. For a man who thinks about how past relationships worked for most of human history until quite recently and is unaware of modern trends and statistics the conclusion would be the opposite. So it’s about being misinformed rather.

    I quite certain, that there is miscommunication on my end. Yes in the past, monogamy “worked” due to constraints of life expectancy. Yes today men still seek out “Disney Marriage”. However what I’m trying to convey Blackdragon’s biological argument of “her leaving you” and most men still denying this, hence the failed logic. I’m talking about primal instincts.

     

    Example: pretend your’e married for a little whole. The Hottest person you can imagine hits on you and starts making out with you. Most men (not all, the exception) will have sex with her. That’s biological programming overriding societal programming. In addition  that *sexual urge* that even the men who didn’t have sex with that hot woman is the genetic programming to reproduce with many partners. Denial of this is quite illogical for men.

  90. I am not entirely sure why but whenever I see someone post IMO then I find it extremely beta.

    Tune in next week for:

    *Using writing style as a cue for being “beta”! or:
    *But that’s just your opinion, man!

    The irony.  The butthurt.  I lol’d.

    Maybe I am the only one who thinks like this but the point is why do you need to stress its your opinion?

    I’m not convinced there is any objective truth to a subject like mindset or attitude as philosophy.  It gets to be pretty woo pretty quick.  People who write about the subject often start referring to “The Law of Attraction” which is abjectly nonsense.  Brian Tracy comes to mind.

    Other subjects regarding mindset (specifically, the power of belief) are more easily codified by facts.  Like the double blind study I saw last week where the test group of cyclists were given placebo “steroids” and told about it, and made substantially more power over time than the ones in the control group.  They thought they had an edge and could go deeper, so they went deeper even though they didn’t have shit.  It was all in their heads.

    Isn’t that obvious?

    No, it’s not.

     

     

  91. @alphaomega

    by beta I mean things that would be typically considered in the provider role. I.e paying for a dinner (if it’s their bday, they got promoted) or if you live together taking care of bills etc (but make sure you split the cost, but you do the admin around them).

    If you mix that occasional beta provider with most of the time alpha (other girls interested in you, taking no shit, following your mission) it seems to work well.

    But I agree it’s a hard balance and you need to keep your SMV high

  92. BD (and other guys as well), even if your roster is full, do you still ping women who have LSNTE’d you?

    Only if I need more women. Otherwise no.

    My question is…is it better to reach out to women at long intervals even if you can’t reconnect with them at that time?

    No.

    OK, so why do you wait 18 months on chics over 35 when the odds of them getting re-married after 35 or especially 40 is supposedly like 2%!

    Not talking about marriage. Talking about boyfriends.

    And your statistic is very incorrect.

    So I am a little curious at the reasoning he waits so long as well, but perhaps because at the over 33 age, they usually ping him first?

    Statistically speaking, the older the woman, the longer the LSNFTEs tend to be. (And yes, there are certainly exceptions to the rule but I don’t base my techniques on the exceptions.)

    examples of Uber Alphas?

    ME!

    MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

     I see beta to beta to beta to beta all the time(and occasionally you throw an alpha in there).

    True, that happens sometimes, particularly if the woman is an extreme Dominant or if she doesn’t have access to any Alphas in her normal social circle (and both of these scenarios are not uncommon; Alphas are getting more rare and Dominants are getting more common as the West continues its decline). But again, as you yourself noted, this beta-beta pattern is temporary until a woman can’t stand it anymore and gets an Alpha. And then goes back to betas.

    Hey BlackDragon, what do you think of writing another one of the less serious “What if”? articles?

    “What if ALL MEN became Alpha Male 2.0?”

    It would be a fun mental exercise.

    I try to stay away from theoretical crap. The manosphere has way too much of that already.

    I understand it’s good for ego, but why do you even want to start seeing again women who return? For easy sex that you know it was good?

    Correct. It’s easy. Getting a new woman takes several hours of work (when you factor in all the women who don’t work) even if you’re very good at it. But bringing an existing woman back often takes less than 5 minutes. Sometimes less than 1 minute. Time management, baby.

    To me it only makes sense if she was one of FBs as you were not emotionally attached at all and if sex was really fantastic/great body.

    I don’t have sex with any women I don’t think have great bodies. You shouldn’t either.

    Although, for every Alpha challenge and excitement in finding even hotter FB and younger could be more interesting than easy sex from old days.

    Not every Alpha. Some Alphas. Read this.

    I recall that BD said somewhere he prefers to have sex with women he knows.

    Not exactly. It’s just easier, as I said. I’m a Pleasure of Sex man, so I’ll take an easy hot babe over a more time consuming babe every time. Whether I know her or not is secondary. Time management ALWAYS comes first, since it’s the only resource I have that isn’t renewable.

    i know what you are saying in this article. But there is a 4th option – of being a mix of alpha / beta and using push /pull style , dread game etc.

    Push / pull and dread game are Alpha.

    If you mix that occasional beta provider with most of the time alpha (other girls interested in you, taking no shit, following your mission) it seems to work well.

    Correct, but that’s still mostly Alpha, not beta. Read this.

  93. If you mix that occasional beta provider with most of the time alpha (other girls interested in you, taking no shit, following your mission) it seems to work well.

    You still seem to conflate the alpha/beta and the player/provider scales, which are different.

    I guess showing any beta traits such as indecision and helplessness should be avoided. Showing emotional vulnerability such as “I suffered a great tragedy in the past, therefore I have made a decision to go to a cemetery to mourn a fallen friend, then to meditate and contemplate, and on that day I would like you not to see me” is OK. Mixing player and provider behavior is just the same advice BD gives, nowhere did he suggest it should be robotic, on a schedule and fully predictable.

    Also you have to be constant and unchanging in your core principles. In particular, having them feel threatened by you is at no time advisable. Take away their feeling of comfort at times, but never the feeling of safety.

  94. When girl is honest and upfront about leaving you…What should the reply be?

    Hope you’re doing well. I wanted to let you know that I met someone that I would like to start dating. So I don’t think we should see each other anymore. I really enjoyed our time together but I am looking for more of a relationship

  95. @AlphaOmega

    “So do you just listen at the start then? and make her do the talking? Do you reveal new things when she starts to dubt / pull away?”

    ====

    I will let her vomit out her 1000 hobbies and interests first so I know what she likes and does not etc.

    When she asks for mine, in the old days I used to copy that and we say I like to blah, blah, blah right?

    Then she goes, “oh thats so awesome, me too me too yayyy.” lmao

    But now I might list one hobby or interest to her 5 lol.  Or instead of listing a hobby of mine, I will just tell a short story about HER hobby then let her continue.

    Some examples of recent ones I can think of are when I put them on 3 or 6 months ignore timer after they leave me or go quite, instead of saying, “hey whats up” I might say, “hey lets go shoot some guns at the gun range” or “hey lets go dancing (w a pic of me in a cowboy hat”).  Or “how do you like my beard?”, etc.

    Others are:

    – 3 to 6 months later pull out my Guitar, a New Gun, a Cigar really anything and can be tiny shit too
    – I have 3 to 5 colognes and change it up on them when they come back depending on the season
    – Invite to go to a party w/ New friends they never met yet
    – Tell her no when she wants to Unblock me on facebook lmao
    – Mention a 2nd or 3rd Biz that you have and for her opinion on something
    – Instead of texting TEXT, I will suddenly change up and just send stupid emojis as a reply.  They seem to think that it means I am too busy for them or that I am with someone and can lead to them asking to come over (wanting attention)

    As a matter of fact, as I was typing this, one lady sent me a screenshot of her post on her facebook page since I will not be her FB friend again after she blocked me back in Feb.  Since then, we slept together many times.  But I told her only way that make since is if we lived together some day (OLTR).  So, she is trying to friend zone me or force her ways on me and she told me nobody has ever done that before w/ facebook!  This chic has MANY guy friends too so you know its driving her insane lmao. =))

    But many of my posts are public so I told her if she really wants to read and like my posts, she still can. hehe…

  96. @Blackdragon and others

    I do wanna pick you guys brains on something I just started testing in last month or less.

    It is in regards to when they DO leave, go dark or quite etc.  Regardless if you know why.

    So, what do you guys think about telling those that leave or those that are playing games or really ANYONE that is not actively SEEING ME NOW (say in last 2-4 weeks), to use phone call versus Texting?  And I would need to honor this and do it myself too when I am asking them to come over.

    The other side of this is that I have had a couple mention how nice it was to hear my voice as well.  But it also reduces the fuckin shit load of garbage texts messages I get all day long and might help set me apart as being more Alpha too idk?

    For example, I just got one from a lady I have not seen in 30 days and she seems less interested although she did tell me 2 weeks ago I could come over IF I didn’t already take my Ambien.  Regardless, she sent a pic of her FB post.  So, instead of texting back, “cool. thats awesome, wanna come over tonight?” I sent “Call me when you can! 😉“.

    Now, wouldn’t you guys think that if a woman REALLY wants to see a man, she would CALL him?  Otherwise she is just wasting his time and wanting FREE attention too.

    Yalls thoughts on me going Phone Call only on ladies that are not actively seeing me?

     

  97. @AlphaOmega

     

    I mean, if she verbalized why
    You assume she knows why /admits it to at least herself. That is a huge assumption when talking about women.

    The point is that deception unpaired with self-deception is less effective, more prone to not working.
    Lack of self-awareness is to be expected where deception is a key strategy.

    (…😉…)

  98. @katmudu

    I’d respond a single lowercase k

    no emoji no punctuation no capitalization nada.

    k

  99. I don’t have sex with any women I don’t think have great bodies. You shouldn’t either.

    Reminds me of something from the book: having sex with women you don’t like is almost as bad as no sex. Having a relationship with someone you dont found attractive, is disastrous too.

    Hope I have qouted more or less accurate and sorry for the off topic, but that was eye-opening to me.

  100. I just wanted to share an anecdote that hopefully would help some guys.

    The mother of my kids left me after getting her first job ever and she rented her new home a couple of months before even telling me she wanted to separate. All her family knew 3 months before me. But she asked me to promise her to keep paying for all the kids expenses. 🙂

    Two years later I started having some women around. One of them, my first girlfriend, from 20 years back. She still had a crush on me, but she was married. Suddenly, she told me she set a timer to leave her husband: 12 months, and during that time she would start saving and figuring how to have a new life on her own.

    I found that astonishing machiavellian!

     

     

  101. ME!
    MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

     

    Lolssss thanks. Great article. Every insight into being and living an outcome independent life is a blessing.

  102. Update in regards to using Phone call vs Text when a chic leaves us:

    Or even “call me after 6 if you can!”

    or

    “I will call you back shortly!”

    or

    “got your text and will call you shortly OK! (or after 6 pm)”

    Personally, I hate talking on the phone so if I do reach them or vice versa, it will be a quick call to meet up only and most women know this about me anyways…

     

  103. k is reserved for the softer stuff.

    In this case it shows you are bitter. And women will think they left a grumpy guy behind.

    Relax a bit, an emoji won’t make your dick fall off.

    And katmundu, women almost never tell you I will be seeing another guy so I won’t be seeing you. they just avoid and ghost you. If you get a message like this it means there was something wrong with how you were handling the relationship. She should know up to that point that sending such message is futile.

    She expects to hurt with such message. She should know it won’t make you even flinch . In her brain it should be “this guy is doing great without me so I’ll move along with my plan no need to bother him”. So either she is an oltr or you did something wrong

  104. k is reserved for the softer stuff.

    In this case it shows you are bitter.

    I’m not ready to go there, but I can see the context of what you are saying.   You don’t want to be needy or bitter or angry.  You’re just trying to let her off the hook and not look like a punk.

    I think the last time it happened to me I responded with a quick.  “Okay, it was fun!”  I’m not convinced that was the right line either.

    And katmundu, women almost never tell you I will be seeing another guy so I won’t be seeing you. they just avoid and ghost you.

    Truth, to the point that if you get dumped for any reason you can safely assume (without any downside) that there’s another man involved somehow.  The objective in any case is to disappear, give her a chance to miss you,  and yourself a chance to see if something else was going on that might change your judgement if you want her back or not.

    In effect, this is unexpected and sets the stage up for her eventual return.  And even if you screw things up, they usually do one way or another.  Question becomes do you want them?

     

  105. The mother of my kids left me after getting her first job ever and she rented her new home a couple of months…she asked me to promise her to keep paying for all the kids expenses.

    Funny how that works, huh?

    Two years later I started having some women around. One of them, my first girlfriend, from 20 years back. She still had a crush on me, but she was married. Suddenly, she told me she set a timer to leave her husband: 12 months, and during that time she would start saving and figuring how to have a new life on her own.

    Two points:

    I had almost the same thing happen to me after I got separated, but this gal wasn’t married.  I had it BAD for her in high school and got shot down in the street for my trouble, so I was surprised to find her in my lap like thirty years later.  No husband tho (I don’t mess with married women, too much potential drama for me) but that brings me to point two:

    Don’t get serious with that one!  You are getting a front row seat to what she’s really like with her current husband, and it’s a lead pipe cinch she’s gonna do it again.  Make sure its not with you.

  106. Question:

    What about people with certain mental disorders that have the effect of retaining women due to the ups and downs — like bipolar disorder?

    Is that person an accidental alpha 1.0 or something?

  107. @kamudu

    Ages ago there was a commenter on here called Dawson Stone. All his comments are well worth reading. His tried and tested reaction to being dumped was along these lines: “I totally understand. I really enjoyed our time together and wish you all the best for the future.” No bitterness, no attempt at punishment, just calm and friendly, thus leaving the door open for her to return.

  108. Don’t get serious with that one! You are getting a front row seat to what she’s really like with her current husband, and it’s a lead pipe cinch she’s gonna do it again. Make sure its not with you.

    My point was to underline what BD mentioned before: Women are not evil. It is just how they are.

    Knowing that before hand, I will enjoy them and avoid any stress 😀

  109. True, that happens sometimes, particularly if the woman is an extreme Dominant or if she doesn’t have access to any Alphas in her normal social circle (and both of these scenarios are not uncommon; Alphas are getting more rare and Dominants are getting more common as the West continues its decline). But again, as you yourself noted, this beta-beta pattern is temporary until a woman can’t stand it anymore and gets an Alpha. And then goes back to betas.

    Alphas are usually not in social circles for most women anyway. The standard scenario for a lot of women is start dating one of her friends… and then later maybe another one. So that means these guys were platonic with her for months or years even though they had the hots for her and waited for her to make a move on them. Doesn’t get more beta than that.

    – Invite to go to a party w/ New friends they never met yet

    You let your causual girls meet your friends? ……

    So, what do you guys think about telling those that leave or those that are playing games or really ANYONE that is not actively SEEING ME NOW (say in last 2-4 weeks), to use phone call versus Texting?  And I would need to honor this and do it myself too when I am asking them to come over.

    I thought about this in the past but only been doing it with regulars so far. I don’t think its a good idea to do it with a girl ive not seen in a while but I’d like to hear others experience on this.

    Suddenly, she told me she set a timer to leave her husband: 12 months, and during that time she would start saving and figuring how to have a new life on her own.

    I found that astonishing machiavellian!

    Not really, its more or less normal and smart.

    Update in regards to using Phone call vs Text when a chic leaves us:

    Or even “call me after 6 if you can!”

    or

    “I will call you back shortly!”

    or

    “got your text and will call you shortly OK! (or after 6 pm)”

    Personally, I hate talking on the phone so if I do reach them or vice versa, it will be a quick call to meet up only and most women know this about me anyways…

    I have done similar things but with regular girls who I am actively seeing or distance girls with which I had mutual likeness. I would not do it with a new girl or girl who left (maybe wrongly?? I dont know.)

    I dont like talking on the phone with girls who I have not established mutual comfort with either but with regular girl I like it and prefer it over texting usually.

    Ages ago there was a commenter on here called Dawson Stone. All his comments are well worth reading. His tried and tested reaction to being dumped was along these lines: “I totally understand. I really enjoyed our time together and wish you all the best for the future.” No bitterness, no attempt at punishment, just calm and friendly, thus leaving the door open for her to return.

    I wonder if a better response is often no response? It’s like you are too busy to spend time on her when she’s not fucking you (anymore) to even say something. Often women expect a response and it annoys them when you don’t respond and need your attention then. But it could also make her upset. I wonder if it increases or decreases chances of her coming back?

    I am not entirely sure why but whenever I see someone post IMO then I find it extremely beta.

    Tune in next week for:

    *Using writing style as a cue for being “beta”! or:
    *But that’s just your opinion, man!

    The irony.  The butthurt.  I lol’d.

    Maybe I am the only one who thinks like this but the point is why do you need to stress its your opinion?

    I’m not convinced there is any objective truth to a subject like mindset or attitude as philosophy.  It gets to be pretty woo pretty quick.  People who write about the subject often start referring to “The Law of Attraction” which is abjectly nonsense.  Brian Tracy comes to mind.

    Other subjects regarding mindset (specifically, the power of belief) are more easily codified by facts.  Like the double blind study I saw last week where the test group of cyclists were given placebo “steroids” and told about it, and made substantially more power over time than the ones in the control group.  They thought they had an edge and could go deeper, so they went deeper even though they didn’t have shit.  It was all in their heads.

    Isn’t that obvious?

    No, it’s not.

    Well, I don’t understand what you are saying here (maybe too early in the day for me still, need another coffee, probably) so you could try to explain differently or we can leave it at that.

  110. Knowing that before hand, I will enjoy them and avoid any stress 😀

    And better yet: you take measures:

    – no monogamy

    – no traditional marriage without prenup that cannot be challenged in a court

    – no joint finances

    – no date like behavior / dinners out / paying for her etc before sex (unless you are doing sugar daddy game)

  111. @AlphaOmega

    “I wonder if a better response is often no response? It’s like you are too busy to spend time on her when she’s not fucking you (anymore) to even say something. Often women expect a response and it annoys them when you don’t respond and need your attention then. But it could also make her upset. I wonder if it increases or decreases chances of her coming back?”

    ===

    I seem to have the best luck by copying or mirroring them on stuff like this it seems….

    If she tells me she wants to break up and is nice about it, then I would tell her I had FUN with her and wish it wasn’t already over THIS SOON (lol) and maybe add in a joke or light hearted tease.   I have had some tell me this was only a test and others tell me it bothered them that I was so nice abt her breaking up.  But it didn’t matter cuz they all came back lol.

    But if she just fades away or ghosts me, than I do the same to her (mirror her actions) and after like 2 texts I totally disappear just like her. Almost as if I it was me that disappeared instead lol.  Sometimes I will do it even after 1 non-answered text even.  If she don’t reply, I may not EVER text her back again in m life.  Sometimes they will even text me in 45 days something like, “hey…you sure been quite lately??”.  I just be like, “ditto” and before you know it, she is on my couch….

  112. What about people with certain mental disorders that have the effect of retaining women due to the ups and downs — like bipolar disorder?

    Too general a question.

    Is that person an accidental alpha 1.0 or something?

    Uh, no. A person with bi-polar disorder is not automatically an Alpha Male 1.0.

  113. If she tells me she wants to break up and is nice about it, then I would tell her I had FUN with her and wish it wasn’t already over THIS SOON (lol) and maybe add in a joke or light hearted tease. I have had some tell me this was only a test and others tell me it bothered them that I was so nice abt her breaking up. But it didn’t matter cuz they all came back lol.

    Of course I know such stuff is better but I have this bad habbit of lecturing women. Like I tell them they made the wrong conclusion and its not like that and that she should change her mind and then get angry when she doesn’t follow my instructions.

  114. Is there anything I can do to add her back to the rotation? Last time we spoke she tried to friendzone me, so I stopped the conversation.

    This mode of thinking is the main problem. If a thought pops in your head “How do I get back that chick” then it means you become dependent on her. Becoming dependent on other women (and people in general) is an antithesis to an Alpha 2.0 frame.

    Forcefully remove your attention from her and everything connected with her and get busy with raising your income and getting into a good shape. As soon as you “get into the flow” doing that – your Alpha magnetism will kick in and you will have plenty of same or more women to choose from.

  115. Is there anything I can do to add her back to the rotation? Last time we spoke she tried to friendzone me, so I stopped the conversation.

    Sometimes it works to just ignore her messages about what she wants or doesnt want and if shes up to meet up then you proceed to her pants as usual. This works very well. If she doesn’t want to meet then you ignore her.

  116. @AlphaOmega

    You lecture them!!  Ouch.  Hmmm….

    So, how would you have responded to the lady that sent me this text last night?  I was using her text she sent to rope her back in since I have not seen her in 30 days.

    (as you read it bear in mind that we have been seeing each other almost a year maybe 1 to 2x per month average. In the beginning she gave an image of very conservative and non wild. Now, she is very open with me and she knows that I know she is more wild than most guys realize so we are very close. Oh and that she looks a lil bit like actress Kate Boseworth yum).

    ===

    Her: “Can I ask you a question Kurt?  I’ve been told before and again recently that I’m like a drug. Can’t get enough and addictive. Is that true??”

    (note: with the “again recently”, she is hinting that she too is fucking someone else)

    Me: “idk cuz we don’t see each other that much really lol”

    Her: “You know what I mean. I feel like I’m every mans Kryponite ugh [insert sad face here]” 

    Me: “oh I see.  That’s a LOT of men! =) “

    Her: “maybe not EVERY man…geez.  U know what I mean”

    Me: “Kryponite might be a little strong of a word. I feel very good around you and our sex is very deep and sensual for sure. Maybe not as Kinky as others but very satisfying when we are together. 

    Her: “I see….”

    Me: “that’s probably good that neither see’s the other one as their Kryponite really don’t you think? lol”

    (note: I just played a lil mind game w/ her here and assumed that if she is asking me this, I am not her Kryptonite either lol)

    Her: “I use that word loosely…just simply as smtg you can’t resist.  Not so much smtg you can’t live w/out and a weakness.  I am not sure why I asked you that.  Never mind…I’m sorry”

    Me: “oh well yeah we both seem to have a hard time resisting each other when we are together.  I assume you do to right?  

    Her: “ugh you are such an asshole sometimes Kurt just forget it. But yes, I LOVE it when we are together no doubt.”

    Me: “so my birthday is Saturday you coming to see me!?”

    Her: “Yeah I would like to but it be late like after 8 or 9 prob if that is OK?”

    =====

    So, if this was you, would you have lectured her when she said the above?

    All I gotta say is THANK GOD FOR BETA’s that say shit like “you are so addictive” or “I can’t get enough of you and you are my Kryponite”.  LOL.  Wow.   What a blessing they are!!  They make our life so much easier lol….

     

  117. What about people with certain mental disorders that have the effect of retaining women due to the ups and downs — like bipolar disorder?

    Is that person an accidental alpha 1.0 or something?

    Gonna sound like an asshole here, but having a mental disorder is not alpha at all. Alpha 1s who have mental health issues are usually betas who are just getting really lucky.

    That doesn’t mean that dudes who have mental health issues don’t deserve to be alpha or something, but overcoming and rising up from the mental health issues that they deal with is what transforms a guy from beta/omega to alpha.

    Don’t forget that being alpha is all about being a leader, and recovering from mental health issues denotes a high level of self leadership.

  118. @ Kurt

    No, there was nothing to lecture her about in this conversation.

    Maybe the part when she mentioned shes a kyptonite I would tease her about it that I am not so easy but I wanna watch her try or something like that, otherwise most of the conversation would have been similar to you. Or maybe I’d say that it’s fine and it works out because I seem to be her drug.

    She didn’t say anything irrational or contradictory so there is nothing to lecture her about.

    Only thing I dont understand is why she calls you an asshole after that message but maybe there is some context I am missing.

    All I gotta say is THANK GOD FOR BETA’s that say shit like “you are so addictive” or “I can’t get enough of you and you are my Kryponite”. LOL. Wow. What a blessing they are!! They make our life so much easier lol….

    I do say sometimes to women (during sex) that I could fuck them all day and they usually respond with that they want to be fucked by my the whole day (to be fair with the ones I spend more time that’s pretty much what we do), but I do recognize some of this in a different way. My current girl tells me that she likes I don’t contact her all the time that she doesn’t like it when men do that or when they are too sweat too early. Shes very submissive so she loves it when I order her around and she never had that before apparently. It’s pathetic and sad that women like her went on for years without meeting someone who can do that for her and that such an obviously submissive girl like her gets hit on by guys trying to be overly sweet with her, but it’s good for us I guess. One girl who came back to me after a year left me because she wanted a relationship with a special person and one year later I was fucking her again and she said she had a stupid relationship with a stupid person and that he was always up her ass and she was feeling physically sick from it and also that he didn’t want to have sex every day. It’s exactly like what BD writes in the article.

    You lecture them!! Ouch. Hmmm….

    Yeah I know, bad idea, but sometimes I just can’t resist. It’s just too much entertainment for me even if it messes up things with the girl sometimes. I guess I am one of those guys BD talks about who sometimes like a bit of drama.

  119. A person with bi-polar disorder is not automatically an Alpha Male 1.0.

    Is there a category for crazy guys then? I’ve seen them attract all kinds of women and get caught up in cycles with them lasting long periods of time.

    These guys just tend to do whatever they want and are totally in love with them one second and devaluing them the next.

    But you talk to them and they can seem both very needy and insecure in one second and you see them again and they’re like invincible.

    It’s always kind of fascinated me. Seems like it’s its own thing. You haven’t observed this kind of dynamic?

    Maybe they just have extremely high drama tolerance/enjoy drama even more than a woman?

  120. Is there a category for crazy guys then? I’ve seen them attract all kinds of women and get caught up in cycles with them lasting long periods of time.

    I think you mean you’ve seen one bi-polar guy do that, not many.

    You haven’t observed this kind of dynamic?

    Bi-polar men be successful with women? No.

  121. No, it isn’t just me.

    “Bipolar men had had more partners in the last year and were more likely to have had sex without condoms. Compared to Bipolar females, Bipolar males had more sex partners, had more sex with strangers, and were more likely to have engaged in homosexual behavior.”

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4852112/

     

  122. What you posted has nothing to do with the conversation. Just because bi-polar men are more promiscuous than the typical beta male doesn’t mean they’re successful with women. You have to factor in how long their relationships last, how high or low drama they are, how hot the women they’re fucking are, etc.

  123. @AlphaOmega

    Too funny because this girl (Kate Bozeworth lookalike) is also very submissive (on the surface) and will to this fucking day ask for permission to get another beer out of my fridge or little shit.  I just look at her and grin and say nothing now cuz she knows I do not boss women around or if they are here, they can ust grab stuff. I hate being asked anyways.

    But you see, she was with an abusive ex husband for 13 years and says she doesn’t want that again but her actions beg for it in a weird way.  Sometimes I think they miss it and miss the drama, passion and being able to be a Victim etc.

    So, even though they might claim they like being bossed around or told what to do or lectured, I tell them if they really want that in a man, fine go find them one or 2 bossy guys to fill that void because I am not making her pick only me!  lol.  This drives them nuts. hehe.  Oh and also sweetie if for ANY reason I don’t make you happy please replace me asap vs letting shit build up!.  (hehe)

    I had a lady last night try to make me jealy about her going out w other guys and I was just like, “I don’t feel like I can really talk about that topic cuz who am I to judge you sweetie? I have my issues and weaknesses too you know?”.   

    So I guess what I am saying is that if they desire to be bossed around, I make it known that I am not going to provide them with what they want, because I know many women will use this down the road when it is time for them to break up.  Plus, what woman appreciates a man that does what she wants? lol.  It’s almost like a trap to me that many Alpha 1 fall prey to.

    I bet the odds are high your lady above has told others or will that you are Controlling her and/or a verbally abusive man if she ever leaves.  I also enjoy taking away giving them this luxury in the future and I can tell it frustrates them that I will not boss them around!  lol =)))

    It’s almost like women subconsciously (and sometimes on purpose) either turn men into a Beta or a Alpha 1 and I have to fight off letting them push me in either extreme and it makes them mad, which brings them back!

     

  124. @AlphaOmega

    Oh yeah something else I been testing that seems to work and did it w/ blonde is I just flat out be honest with them and admit or confess to them that I may be an empath. “So to you sweetie it feels like I don’t care because I don’t text much but you gotta understand I can feel another woman’s interest in me and as yours goes up or down, so does mine. I have not seen you in 30 days and you seemed less interested and I can sense this so it naturally makes my interest in you go down as well to fit yours.”

    “I wish I could change this about me sometimes like my buddies that can chase women all day that have little interest in them. But I just can’t seem to do what most men do sweetie. ”  

    This frustrates them and kinda gets their minds going because if they want to stay in my mind and heart, it is all in their hands now and boils down to them SEEING ME in person.  If she wants to decrease in my mind/heart, than all she has to do is lose or decrease her interest in me and it will happen.  If she wants me to want her more, she now has the recipe lol =)))

  125. But you see, she was with an abusive ex husband for 13 years and says she doesn’t want that again but her actions beg for it in a weird way

    It’s hard to get over old habbits, especially something like 13 years.

    Also, there is a reason why some women get abusive husbands / boyfriends always and others never. It’s usually something they do that attracts such types.

    because I know many women will use this down the road when it is time for them to break up.

    It doesn’t matter what you did or didn’t know if she (really) wants to break up (that’s what this article is about). I think the point was we can just do our own thing and not worry about it.

    I am just naturally bossy with people, not just women. I do this with friends also to some extent, colleagues and even in the past with colleagues who were supposed to be my boss. It’s just my natural style. Likewise it is then natural for me to get women who are attracted to this. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t have her own opinion or doesn’t ask me to do stuff or never says no, its just the communication style. Sometimes we joke about it together, like this girl who is cheating on her boyfriend with me, when she was unsure of what new phone to buy I told her exactly what she should get and why and she was like yes boss! thanks for organizing my life for me.

    So to you sweetie it feels like I don’t care because I don’t text much but you gotta understand I can feel another woman’s interest in me and as yours goes up or down, so does mine. I have not seen you in 30 days and you seemed less interested and I can sense this so it naturally makes my interest in you go down as well to fit yours.”

    “I wish I could change this about me sometimes like my buddies that can chase women all day that have little interest in them. But I just can’t seem to do what most men do sweetie. ”  

    This frustrates them and kinda gets their minds going because if they want to stay in my mind and heart, it is all in their hands now and boils down to them SEEING ME in person.

    What? I thought everybody was like that and this was obvious stuff?!

     

  126. What’s your technique to know if the next guy is an alpha or beta, especially is she ghosts? Social media? Her own admission? I mean some of those betas look great on paper and in photos. Also women back rationalize, next guy could be alpha AF but she discredits him as some loser to you when she comes back because she didn’t get what she wanted (law of power #36).

    Obviously if I’m certain of how I act with a woman it shouldn’t be an issue but just wondering how you do it.

     

  127. What’s your technique to know if the next guy is an alpha or beta, especially is she ghosts? Social media? Her own admission? I mean some of those betas look great on paper and in photos. Also women back rationalize, next guy could be alpha AF but she discredits him as some loser to you when she comes back because she didn’t get what she wanted (law of power #36).

    Pretty much everyone thinks (or at least says that) her current guy is alpha. You would be hard pressed to find a woman that admits the guy she is dating is beta even though obviously most of the time its the case especially if shes cheating on him.

    Afterwards when they are broken up or in process of breaking up that is something else. If you have been dating for a while and she ghosts you it usually means she didn’t think it was very serious and now found someone more serious so its probably a beta.

    Also keep in mind that most (so called) alphas are total losers. They may be tough and confident but they can get obsessed like hell over some girl and get emotional, often even more than betas. So it doesn’t really make a difference.

    Women almost never get what they want because they don’t know what they want / it keeps changing. If this wasn’t the case a woman would always only date betas and be always super happy about it or always only date alphas and be super happy about how they treat her. This is almost never the case.

  128. @AlphaOmega

    “What? I thought everybody was like that and this was obvious stuff?!”

    ===

    It’s early but I assume this was being sarcastic above?  =)

    @CannonBall

    I think one HUGE key to doing BDs system is not forgetting that for the whole thing to work right, you gotta make sure you are ALWAYS having sex (not just talking) with 2, but more like 3, women at all times.

    Because then it helps us stop obsessing over the why women leave or what we did wrong etc.  Which can become all consuming and affect our work and more.  I am not saying don’t do some self introspection to learn not to make same mistakes again but this can turn OCD like if we are not having sex with others.  Aside from that the money goals are big too because I know if I am fcking 3 women but my income goes down, I do not feel as Alpha or happy.

    Another thing I do when I am with ladies that were with Alpha 1 before me is when we talk about this stuff, even lightly or tease about it, I frame the Alpha 1’s as Betas too but just a controlling or cheating one one versus a Sappy & Clingy one.  And I tease them or ask them why they like Beta’s so much and that she will eventually leave me for a Beta. lol.   Now, in her mind moving forward, the only guys that make an Alpha male, are men like me or the laid back ones that don’t say shit like “you are my whole world sweetie” or “get the fuck over here and stop talking to that guy or else”.   Now us Alpha 2’s are in a “Don’t give a shit” island all by ourselves in her mind hopefully, which leads to more curiousity and frustration and attraction =)

    I agree with AlphaOmega that most Alpha 1 are losers.  Which is probably a good idea to add that to the mix above!  ie –  “Most women love them some Controlling or Sappy Beta Boys or Losers and odds are high that is what you will leave me for eventually too sweetie.” 

    I still think it is possible for a women to go from one alpha to another just because it could be about money or them looking for a man to take care of them.  I have had some admit to me that they love Alpha guys or bad boys only but they never have money and that she feels like she is in a hurry to find a man.  Just too many factors that can come into play here!

    I would say the most competition over here is from the Alpha 1 that are somewhat successful and have a Job that is clearly Alpha. Like policemen, fire fighters, etc.   Typically, those guys are gonna be big time cheaters though so I might tell her if she brings up cheating that she needs to decide if she wants Novelty more and if so, she just needs to learn to live with it lol.

    Additionally, this has helped me get into guns a little, learn how to hunt, etc which would be great things to know if our lights go out long-term some day. Plus, if you think about, if it was 1920 again, would the Alpha 2s be sought after by the ladies as much if we did not know how to take care of a woman and feed her or protect her?  Prob not!

     

  129. What’s your technique to know if the next guy is an alpha or beta, especially is she ghosts?

    I don’t have a technique for that because I don’t care. I know she’ll be back either way.

  130. BD, this is personal, so I understand if you wont make comments.

    I was wondering if your ex wife tried to come back ever.

  131. @Blackdragon

    Sometimes I feel as if the fact the ladies know they can come back at any time and I will be available can pro-long the boomberang phase some.  so I try to not jump on them too fast but then again if I wait or drag my feet at seeing them again on a boomerang, they could take it as rejection too. And we know how they can’t take rejection too well.

    Almost like its too easy for them to come and go in my life when THEY want it, versus me.

    Its like a tricky balancing act of creating some tension but not ignoring them too long when they try to come back.  I have often thought about just telling them I don’t wanna be exclusive but I also don’t have time for more than 2 or 3 special women in my life at any one time.  This way, maybe it would create a higher value in their minds.  I keep thinking of Macro Economics of supply and demand and how this affects the ladies urgency to come back if they know its TOO easy?

  132. BD, this is personal, so I understand if you wont make comments.

    No question about my personal life is too personal as long as it doesn’t risk my finances.

    I was wondering if your ex wife tried to come back ever.

    No. (During our initial separation she wanted me back for perhaps the first 2-3 weeks, but I don’t think that counts.)

    I was monogamous and traditional with her so she had no desire to ever come back.

  133. Sometimes I feel as if the fact the ladies know they can come back at any time and I will be available can pro-long the boomberang phase some. so I try to not jump on them too fast but then again if I wait or drag my feet at seeing them again on a boomerang, they could take it as rejection too. And we know how they can’t take rejection too well.

    Almost like its too easy for them to come and go in my life when THEY want it, versus me.

    Its like a tricky balancing act of creating some tension but not ignoring them too long when they try to come back. I have often thought about just telling them I don’t wanna be exclusive but I also don’t have time for more than 2 or 3 special women in my life at any one time. This way, maybe it would create a higher value in their minds. I keep thinking of Macro Economics of supply and demand and how this affects the ladies urgency to come back if they know its TOO easy?

    Massive over-thinking. Relax and just follow the system.

  134. No question about my personal life is too personal as long as it doesn’t risk my finances.

    Awesome answer.

    No. (During our initial separation she wanted me back for perhaps the first 2-3 weeks, but I don’t think that counts.)

    I was monogamous and traditional with her so she had no desire to ever come back.

    Supposed that. Guess I’m learning. Cheers & thx!

  135. @ Kurt

    You have to go no contact when they leave, then they fully realise what they’re missing and come back quicker. My quickest LSNFTE was around 24h then she begged me to take her back. Otherwise it just cheapens your validation because she left, you get no sex and she keeps getting your attention (which she craves). She gets the same benefits for less investment, so she’s in no hurry to come back. Oh she wants back in? Sure, straight to sex. No sex? GTFO (politely).

  136. @Cannonball

    yeah I get all of that stuff when she “leaves”.  but it’s not so easy to define “leave” if it’s a FWB that I’ve already had the talk with and on good terms with and the window of time that we don’t see each other can change from 1 week to 1 month.  or 2 months.

    So when do you put these from the leave pile to the not left pile and vice versa is a lil tricky sometimes.

    They have not seen me in a while but we are on good terms (and most have come back multiple times) and they say they want to come over but sometimes I got plans and so we have longistical issues catching each other.  usually my FWB are a mess or chaotic lives or anti planners or alcolholics etc too.

    Lately (last month maybe) I have had good results with these “gray area” status ladies by forcing them to call me versus texting too much.  then once on the phone I ask to come over and if they can’t THAT NIGHT or set a firm date, I quickly say I got an emergency can I call you back.  then I don’t lol.  then they send another text abt me not calling back.  I call them back and repeat.  usually on 2nd or 3rd phone call repeat, they are exhausted and frustrated and be like, “can you come over?”  😉

  137. I found a new way to prob increase the boomberang rate by 30000000% if it’s her 1st time. lol

    If you don’t own one yet, buy yourself an Acoustic Guitar (for $130 on Amazon) and start learning how to play it and put pics on facebook of you with it and make it public.

    I got one 2 weeks ago and its been loads of fun trying to learn it with my daughter too.  Win-Win-Win! ( I always assumed I was horrible at music but with the added motivation, I discovered I am not as bad as I thought).

    But I sent a pic of me with it setting by my side (so its not real obvious) to like 10 chics that I have not seen in a while and just said “hi” and 7 replied back VERY excited.  4 already asked about the Guitar lmao. =)) (this is not counting the huge increase in interest on facebook from new ladies yet that I have not had time to contact).

    I am just focusing on learning one simple song that chics kinda dig and even if it takes me 2 years so what (I choose All of Me).  But I go back to my FB page later and delete the pic because I I don’t want new ladies knowing all my hobbies too fast either.

    Women. Love. Novelty.

  138. yeah I get all of that stuff when she “leaves”. but it’s not so easy to define “leave” if it’s a FWB that I’ve already had the talk with and on good terms with and the window of time that we don’t see each other can change from 1 week to 1 month. or 2 months.

    So when do you put these from the leave pile to the not left pile and vice versa is a lil tricky sometimes.

    That’s not leaving. Leaving is if she tells you she doesn’t wanna meet anymore or she doesn’t respond at all to a direct request to meet up, or says no in some form to two requests in a row.

    They have not seen me in a while but we are on good terms (and most have come back multiple times) and they say they want to come over but sometimes I got plans and so we have longistical issues catching each other.

    Sometimes some girls do breadcrumbing. This is when she keeps replying to you and being vague about meeting up and making it sound like she wants but she never seems to know when she can meet. This means she doesn’t wanna meet right now but she doesn’t wanna say that directly because she wants to keep you as an option. The best response to this it stop talking to her for a while.

    You have to go no contact when they leave, then they fully realise what they’re missing and come back quicker. My quickest LSNFTE was around 24h then she begged me to take her back. Otherwise it just cheapens your validation because she left, you get no sex and she keeps getting your attention (which she craves). She gets the same benefits for less investment, so she’s in no hurry to come back.

    I had a girl who finished with me just before my trip. When I got back from the trip she wrote to me some stuff and we exchanged a few messages and same night she was at my place having sex with me and then things continued as before.

    Sometimes I feel as if the fact the ladies know they can come back at any time and I will be available can pro-long the boomberang phase some. so I try to not jump on them too fast but then again if I wait or drag my feet at seeing them again on a boomerang, they could take it as rejection too. And we know how they can’t take rejection too well.

    Almost like its too easy for them to come and go in my life when THEY want it, versus me.

    Its like a tricky balancing act of creating some tension but not ignoring them too long when they try to come back. I have often thought about just telling them I don’t wanna be exclusive but I also don’t have time for more than 2 or 3 special women in my life at any one time. This way, maybe it would create a higher value in their minds. I keep thinking of Macro Economics of supply and demand and how this affects the ladies urgency to come back if they know its TOO easy?

    A lot of women have many insecurities. They rarely feel its a guarantee especially if its been a while. “What if he doesnt want me anymore? Oh no! that would be so embarassing if I wrote to him and he didnt want me anymore!” “What if he thinks I got fat? Oh no! That would be so humiliating!”

    One of the girls who came back to me said she had to tell me something before meeting up again. She thought she got fat and was like is it ok? Of course she wasn’t fat at all, I couldn’t tell the difference. But it was a big deal for her and she was scared I’d reject her.

  139. @ Kurt

    Nice idea with the guitar, I’ve been thinking of learning that for ages. You have a lot of interesting experiences and things to say. I’d like to discuss the ladies with you outside of the blog sometime.

  140. @Alpha Omega

    Sure sounds good to me!

    It’s kinda like learning a new language or hobby like martial arts…but harder lol.

    Shit if one wanted to, they wouldn’t even have to learn how to play it or be in hurry.  If ladies asked about it, just say next time and tell em your still learning lol.  Delays the mystery more…

  141. @Alpha Omega

    Yes when they officially leave, that is easy to do.  You just ignore them.

    The bread crum ones is the trickier part to me.  Because if I totally ignore them, they may stop contacting me right.  Plus they may wanna meet up so I need to respond to a text and ask.  But maybe they just fishing to see if I am interested still etc.  This part is FAR more complex than if they “just leave”.

    Technically, I have great boomer rang rates on both I suppose so its not like I suck at it.  I just need to be more efficient and have a better system for those ladies and feel that is my # 1 weakness.

    I think I am gonna eliminate all last minute requests to come over from my life (imagine I am over seas or smtg) to simplify shit and force the anti-planners to conform to my life style versus me conforming to their chaos style.  This would mean that I could respond to their texts say 12-24 hours later, which would also drive them nuts and frustrate them too maybe.   So, I will still eat those Bread crums they put down but very very very slowly and then put down some chocolates as I eat the crums lol. =))

  142. The bread crum ones is the trickier part to me.

    It’s very easy to recognize once you’ve been through it a few times.

    Because if I totally ignore them

    You ignore her if she doesn’t quickly agree to a meet up (for quite a while) and then you hit her up again.

    I have had a woman come back like this. In fact I believe it is better. Also, when she did come back our conversation before the meet up was totally different. It was very clear from the way she was communicating that shes interested this time.

    to simplify shit and force the anti-planners to conform to my life style versus me conforming to their chaos style. This would mean that I could respond to their texts say 12-24 hours later, which would also drive them nuts and frustrate them too maybe.

    Yeah I had this problem with one single mother before – it didn’t really feel good or alpha or anything but it felt as if there wasn’t another way due to her situation (kids were very very young).

    I would say yes though if they asked about tonight but I think the right thing to do would be to never ask them to meet myself in such a case. Only meet upon theyre request. Of course if you do as you suggest thats good because she thinks youre suddenly too busy with something (or someone!) else…

  143. It’s kinda like learning a new language or hobby like martial arts…but harder lol.

    Harder?! Though I kinda feel I want women who are artsy, because I am quite technical AND business minded so arts woman would be very interesting for me.

    Shit if one wanted to, they wouldn’t even have to learn how to play it or be in hurry. If ladies asked about it, just say next time and tell em your still learning lol. Delays the mystery more…

    Very good idea.

    Sure sounds good to me!

    How do we do this; Do you have an email or something?

    Btw, do you have any experience with picking up waitresess?

     

  144. BD, where do you get the patience to deal with sabrina like people?

    if i have that patience i can build my own kingdom one day.

    cheers

  145. @Alpha Omega

    IDK about the email part on here or if that is breaking any rules or not?  Anyone else know?

    In regards to the Waitresses, not a whole lot really. Maybe 1 or 2 in 5 years?   I usually avoid them because its tough to know if they are just being nice to increase tips or what.  Plus, I usually focus on areas that are less competition.

    Actually, one of them was due to me ignoring the waitress and acting like I didn’t see her lol.  Kinda how Adam Sandler did to his date in the movie “Blended” where he was looking over her shoulder to watch the TV lol.   Cuz they got so many men slobbering over them all day long so if a man is not doing it, they wonder why.

    @ Blackdragon or anyone else really

    In your opinion, when a FWB goes dark for a month or so then texts you smtg like pics of her kids (or some bullshit) how long do you wait before texting her back to see if she comes over?  right away, 2 hours. 2 days. etc.  Currently, what I been doing is waiting til next day because there are a few ladies that have a habit of coming over last minute and I am trying to teach them to plan ahead even 24 hours lol.

    and if she does not set plans, do you make this respond time longer and longer or keep it always the same for the next time she sends some general text?

     

  146. IDK about the email part on here or if that is breaking any rules or not? Anyone else know?

    I dont see it written anywhere but I think no one else posts or read this thread anymore.

  147. @AlphaOmega

    Well one of my emails is my first name @ domain “TimeSharesGone.com”.

    Cheers!

  148. BD, where do you get the patience to deal with sabrina like people?

    I have a standard formula I’ve used many times on this blog for many years. You can see exactly what I did, with her and and people just like her:

    1. Respond to her points as long as she’s not engaging in any ad hominems (which she wasn’t).
    2. Keep responding to her as long as her arguments remain rational.
    3. As soon as her arguments become irrational (which happened a very long time ago), stop responding to her and stop reading her comments.
    4. Smile at the increased income and traffic she helps generate for my blog.

    if i have that patience i can build my own kingdom one day.

    Patience is critical if you want to build a personality brand-based business like this one. If you just want to sell products it’s not nearly as necessary.

    IDK about the email part on here or if that is breaking any rules or not? Anyone else know?

    If you want to publish your email on this blog that’s your decision. I don’t care as long as it’s not part of you selling something. I would recommend you guys take it over to the Facebook Group or the Forum.

  149. This article is mostly nonsense based on extreme versions of imaginary men and women. Sabrina’s response was well written and accurate. Most people are neither massive, raging alphas nor pussy betas. Most men fall somewhere in between. Most women are neither gigantic bitches, nor docile submissives. As long as a man projects strength, without being too big an asshole, and a women is kind and gracious without being a doormat, men and women tend to get along just fine.

    When women do leave men, in my experience, they go for a man with similar qualities.  In other words, that girl who always asks, why can’t I find a good man? She is generally picking the same type guy over and over, expecting a different result. Sure, younger women will often default to the bad boy, because he makes her pussy tingle, but after getting burned time and again, will choose a less risky type for a mate and to raise children. As long as a man is confident, successful, with a bit of an edge to keep things interesting and pleases his woman in bed, he will have little difficulty keeping her. Add kids, home, finances and mutual friends to the mix, and it’s even more likely she will stay.

     

     

  150. @Harry Flashman

    “As long as a man is confident, successful, with a bit of an edge to keep things interesting and pleases his woman in bed, he will have little difficulty keeping her. Add kids, home, finances and mutual friends to the mix, and it’s even more likely she will stay.”

    ===

    But that (your quote above) is basically an Alpha 2 you described (minus the monogamy part)!   But if he does ALL of that above and decided to promise her monogamy, odds are very high it would still end eventually.  Most women just don’t respect men that agree with them or that bend to please them.  even though they SAY that is what they NEED to be happy it is not reality.   It bores them once they have it.

    I had one that was living w/ her mono BF for 9 months rent free.  She didn’t even have to work.  She got really sick for like half of that too and he took care of her.  He eventually kicks her out for meeting her “Abusive” ex husband (that she bad mouths) at a football game.  Her response was, “but Kurt this guy (her BF) was almost 300 pounds and did not give me any spending money so…”.    I wish this was rare but I see it ALL THE TIME!   Add to that the # of married women that I could have sex with and its a shit show….

     

  151. @AlphaOmega

    I will look at the facebook group stuff later this week….

    In meantime, another funny thing I do is if they leave or go dark and we had social pics while out or posted on Facebook, I PROMOTE HER picture of us stuck in the middle or bottom of the 9 main ones on Facebook so that our pic is surrounded by other pics of women I was with.  Currently, I have 6 of those pics with me and other women lol.  The other 3 are of me and kids or friends.   So, while she/they is deleting mine off her main 9 pics, I am putting hers on my “wall of women I been with recently” basically lol.   Why should I hide my past relationships that I really enjoyed while they lasted anyways?  =))

    But its fucking hilarious how they will get all offended and butt hurt that she/they are “just 1 of many” women or ask why they are not at the TOP of my pics!  even though she knew we were not exclusive and she won’t have a single pic of us on her main 9 pics!  And yet it is them that wanted to be exclusive and Loved me so much! hehe.  It drives them mad and many times they come back but boy do this frustrate them and make it feel as almost like it was YOU/ME that left them instead lol.

    But you know if I only had a pic of us up and no other women on it, she would NEVER come back!

    So, when they leave, add a old FB pic of you guys to your FB trophy wall with other women (main 9 pics) for about 1-6 months but not at the top and perf at the bottom lol.

  152. Most people are neither massive, raging alphas nor pussy betas. Most men fall somewhere in between. Most women are neither gigantic bitches, nor docile submissives. As long as a man projects strength, without being too big an asshole, and a women is kind and gracious without being a doormat, men and women tend to get along just fine.

    I have no idea where you got in my article that I say or imply otherwise.

    As long as a man is confident, successful, with a bit of an edge to keep things interesting and pleases his woman in bed, he will have little difficulty keeping her.

    Factually incorrect. She will still leave.

    Add kids, home, finances and mutual friends to the mix, and it’s even more likely she will stay.

    It is more likely she will stay longer, but not more likely she will stay. She will still eventually leave, and you’re living in a Guy-Disney fantasy land if you believe otherwise.

  153. @Stefanos

    Hahaha, the question should be “where does Sabrina get the patience to deal with people in this blog?”

    Caleb is making money from this blog (and tons of money selling his books and seminars) – I am not. If anything, both Caleb and the commenters in this blog should be happy with my comments – Caleb for his increased traffic, and the commenters for my criticisms about feasibility of Caleb’s “lifestyle” choice he is profiting from. (And with the sheer amount of money he’s charging you guys, you should question his methods and viability of his methods). 🙂

    @BlackDragon

    Factually incorrect. She will still leave.

    My goodness. Absolutely factually incorrect. How will you factor in millions of couples in the western world (who got married after the 90s) who are still together for 25+ years with no breaks? Sure, you may say “but they all cheated, at least once!” – even taking that stance as truth (and there is no statistics to prove this), these women did *not* leave their husbands – invalidating your point.

    But I get why you (and so many people here) think that way. In C Lo’s eloquent terms:

    I don’t care about the health of the relationship. I care about MY health. That divorce I went through almost killed me.

    Caleb also likes saying that I will understand “the facts” after I go through a “divorce or two” – he himself is admitting his blog message is only viable to those who have gone through a failed marriage. But I get it. After a failed relationship (especially a divorce), I understand the desire to frame all marriages are doomed to fail, because then it makes you feel better. I also understand why you do not want to go through the pain again.

    But I will leave you (who are interested) with an article:

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/lessons-loving/201503/why-the-most-successful-couples-stay-together

    Most people who make good on the “marriage is for life” assumption freely admit having considered splitting up at least once over the decades (and often more than once). They’ve lived through sloughs of unfulfillment, periods where passion waned and nothing appeared to replace it, and bouts of simmering resentment. But they hung in, they endured, they worked feverishly on the relationship – and they won out in the end. They won out by reaching a level of fulfillment that is difficult to describe.

    […]

    Because to wind up at the last years of life in the arms of someone you fell in love with 60 or 70 years ago is sublime. It’s a part of a well-lived life that is so transcendental that for many elders who are there, it defies description. I learned this from the elders: there are some life experiences for which you need the whole thing to reap the benefits – marriage is one of them.

    Just like successful business is a reward for those who are willing to go through period of stress, unfulfillment, and drama of building a business, a successful marriage is a reward for those who are willing to go through period of stress, unfulfillment (yes, “unhappiness”), and drama. Assuming of course, you want to live a life where when you die, you feel fulfilled and have little regrets (And no, it’s not just a “female” perspective, that article is written by a man).

    It has been quite fun discussing on this blog last couple months, but I am getting a little bored, as I think I can anticipate all the debates/rebuttals from both Caleb and the commenters here. Most are circular arguments and random hypotheticals, and the few valid points will settle with “let’s agree to disagree”. Some have surprised me with their eloquence and insights (and others, not so much. But I have high standards!). As I am starting a new job in a new country, it’s unlikely I’ll be able to keep actively discussing here, so this will be my last comment on this blog for a long time, and I’ll take you up on the debate offer at a later time. Thanks!

  154. Hahaha, the question should be “where does Sabrina get the patience to deal with people in this blog?”

    Let us be honest, Sabrina loves it.

    even taking that stance as truth (and there is no statistics to prove this), these women did *not* leave their husbands – invalidating your point.

    Depends what you mean by leaving. Emotional distance and/or lack of sex = leaving to me and most of the readers here.

    The point is not that there is a reasonable possibility it will work, its that there is a higher possibility it will not. It is about taking precautions.

    f building a business, a successful marriage is a reward for those who are willing to go through period of stress, unfulfillment (yes, “unhappiness”), and drama.

    Why would you go through that? If you have / had those things in a marriage it is already failed. Successful marriage means you do not have those things at all.

    But its fucking hilarious how they will get all offended and butt hurt that she/they are “just 1 of many” women or ask why they are not at the TOP of my pics! even though she knew we were not exclusive and she won’t have a single pic of us on her main 9 pics! And yet it is them that wanted to be exclusive and Loved me so much! hehe. It drives them mad and many times they come back but boy do this frustrate them and make it feel as almost like it was YOU/ME that left them instead lol.

    You post pictures of your girls on FB and add your girls on FB? You must crave all the attention and drama. I only use FB for the messenger feature and sharing photos from my travels with relatives and former classmates etc. I do not add my girls on FB unless we’ve been dating for a long time and often not even then and I do not post any pictures with people most of the time anywhere on any social media.

    In regards to the Waitresses, not a whole lot really. Maybe 1 or 2 in 5 years? I usually avoid them because its tough to know if they are just being nice to increase tips or what. Plus, I usually focus on areas that are less competition.

    They get flirted up a lot yes but most guys don’t actually ask them out. I dated many girls who did waiting in the past and they told me that they often love the idea of getting asked out by a handsome customer. I don’t care if they are acting nice or not – do you only hit on girls who show genuine interest or girls that YOU fancy?

  155. My goodness. Absolutely factually incorrect. How will you factor in millions of couples in the western world (who got married after the 90s) who are still together for 25+ years with no breaks? Sure, you may say “but they all cheated, at least once!” – even taking that stance as truth (and there is no statistics to prove this), these women did *not* leave their husbands – invalidating your point.

    His point is that long-term consistent happiness is incompatible with monogamy. What you say is fully consistent with his point, because any amount of cheating makes the relationship nonmonogamous by definition. And once you’re there, you might as well give structure to that relationship to avoid lies, baseless accusations, irrational fears and the like.

    Most people who make good on the “marriage is for life” assumption freely admit having considered splitting up at least once over the decades (and often more than once). They’ve lived through sloughs of unfulfillment, periods where passion waned and nothing appeared to replace it, and bouts of simmering resentment. But they hung in, they endured, they worked feverishly on the relationship – and they won out in the end.

    We’re now firmly in the survivorship bias territory. Consider that exactly the same can be said about lottery winners. Does the same line of reasoning support the conclusion that putting all of your money into lottery tickets is the way to go?

    Also what the quote is describing doesn’t even sounds like a success to me. Unfulfillment, resentment and feverish work for a “reward” that “defies description”.

    However, I have an idea for a slight modification to the process described. What’s stopping me, in case I start feeling unfulfillment and resentment, from negotiating a period of living in separate residences and fucking some new hot people? If you’re saying no woman will like this, why can’t the woman who supposedly loves me put in some “feverish work” (where she doesn’t have to do anything!) of her own for purposes of the relationship?! A Sidney-Sheldon-esque story that equally ends with “they won out in the end”, except sans the resentment part (instead it would say “they split up and got together again so many times, displaying the power of their eternal love” or something).

  156. @AlphaOmega

    Yeah its kind like I only change those pics briefly and just after a women leaves and I also have a Album called “Kurts Social Life”.  Basically, without going too deep here I am kinda experimenting with SLOWLY being fully transparent with, as Sabrina put it, my “Lifestyle choices”.

    I have noticed more and more women coming over to my side (Caleb’s side) than in years past and I am considering the idea of being 100% transparent with EVERYTHING some day, even on facebook.

    I will test shit for a few months then drop it or modify too.  Personally, I find it more odd or creepy (kinda Black Mirror like) that people don’t have pics of exs, FWB, lover, etc or can just delete years of memories so easy!  Could you imagine if Facebook would not allow people to ever delete or hide shit!?  WOW!  (that is kinda where I am headed w/ my page maybe…).

     

  157. @Sabrina

    And Blackdragon should be very well compensated for the research and system that he has put together! If you look at socitey. you will see that most all products you see advertised on TV or Radio could almost be considered a Scam or scamy to some degree.  College degrees?  hmmm.  Trad marriage?  hmmm.  Diamond rings?  hmmm.  Timeshares? hmmm.  Scams or semi-scams are every where you and I look.  But his shit is actually real as fuck and founded with research, stats (sure many you won’t like) and logic and then testing it.

    Frankly, he probably should have a “donate” button too because many guys appreciate his frankness and honesty in a world full of bullshit.  And to think he has been successful without having to be a scam like most shit out their is pretty amazing really…

    I certainly hope to see you back here in 3 to 5 years with an update! Good luck…(really)

  158. How will you factor in millions of couples in the western world (who got married after the 90s) who are still together for 25+ years with no breaks?

    They are the statistical exception to the rule.

    BD hits <paste>: If you’re using the exception to the rule to prove your point, you don’t have one.

  159. BD hits <paste>: If you’re using the exception to the rule to prove your point, you don’t have one.

    I think she’s thinking more like she’s gonna be one of the “chosen few special” who it will all work out for because of how confident she is in her abilities.

    Hey BD, what do you think of this: “Monogamy is dead – women killed it.” I feel like specifically because of how easy women leave / stop dating / deny sex these days monogamy is no longer an option for me even if I wanted it. Not just based on your stories or explanations but also based on my own experience trying to make it work with them.

  160. I think she’s thinking more like she’s gonna be one of the “chosen few special” who it will all work out for because of how confident she is in her abilities.

    Actually, no. She doesn’t think that. Like most women, deep down she knows exactly what’s going on. She’ll never verbalize it, but she knows.

    These crazy things she’s saying are coming from her ego, not her brain. She’s a smart girl; her brain knows better.

    Hey BD, what do you think of this: “Monogamy is dead – women killed it.”

    No. Monogamy was never alive to begin with. Even in years past when the divorce rate was less than 8%, people still cheated rampantly. Humans are pair-bonding creatures but they have never been monogamous ones.

    If instead you say, “Traditional marriage is dead – women killed it,” that would be a little more accurate. The only reason traditional marriage worked in the past is that the patriarchy (which no longer exists regardless of what the feminists scream) forbid divorce. Now it’s allowed, so women take advantage of it. If you or I got received free money and social accolades for breaking up with our live-in girlfriends, we’d do the same thing.

  161. These crazy things she’s saying are coming from her ego

    That is what I meant exactly. That’s actually what I was hinting at with “chosen few special”. It’s not delusional to think one is going to be the exception – it’s arrogant. Though in a way I guess it’s the same thing.

    Monogamy was never alive to begin with. Even in years past when the divorce rate was less than 8%, people still cheated rampantly. Humans are pair-bonding creatures but they have never been monogamous ones.

    Was that the case also for the plebs? I always had this idea that in the past plebs did monogamy and the elites didn’t – they slept in different rooms for a reason, not because they had many rooms in they’re castles.

    If instead you say, “Traditional marriage is dead – women killed it,” that would be a little more accurate.

    Here it depends on what you mean by traditional marriage – the way plebs did it or the ways elites did it? Because those were quite different. The elites never divorced either (with a few eccentric exceptions) but they both had partners on the side and it was even socially accepted in some places and times. But not so much for the plebs. So this was a traditional marriage which was not monogamous. The idea of monogamous traditional marriage has always been a domain of peasants.

    The only reason traditional marriage worked in the past is that the patriarchy (which no longer exists regardless of what the feminists scream) forbid divorce.

    It’s funny it was forbidden but only for the plebs. This is the big thing people don’t realize the stuff they idealize of how it “was” in the past was always the peasant version.
    Completely agree though.

    If you or I got received free money and social accolades for breaking up with our live-in girlfriends, we’d do the same thing.

    I don’t know, if the girl was still hot and didn’t cause me any problems I’d rather keep her indefinitely.

    But then you should say that it’s dead instead because the end of patriarchy killed it.

    Still, if women never cheated, never left, never stopped giving enthusiastic sex and never stopped taking care of theyre appearance most men would be happy with monogamy. Though maybe not you and me and most readers of this blog, though most men I know want either monogamy or serial monogamy. Most women I know don’t even hide the fact that they do serial monogamy and intend to continue doing it. It’s funny because such a thing immediately disqualifies a woman from monogamy for a man.

  162. @Alpha Omega

    “….Though maybe not you and me and most readers of this blog, though most men I know want either monogamy or serial monogamy. Most women I know don’t even hide the fact that they do serial monogamy and intend to continue doing it. It’s funny because such a thing immediately disqualifies a woman from monogamy for a man.”

    ====

    Oh man!  You hit it on the head on this one.  I actually had a lady about 3 years ago that told me flat out she is a Serial Monogamist.  This was back when I was just starting to read this blog.  So, I asked her about her past relationships time span and averaged it out (in front of her) and said, “Ok, I will agree to being mono with you for 6 months.”   She just looked at me like I was fucking nuts.  But it was that or nothing.

    She agrees to try the 6 months deal and it ended at 6 months lol.

    But I tease/joke with ladies all the time and will say “1 week?”, “1 month?”, or “for how long you wanna try this high school monogamy deal out sweetie?” and they think it is absolutely nuts to put a time on it.

    Probably because it takes away their control I guess IDK??    Even a marriage could be a 1 year renewal type contract or something similar but damn they HATE the idea of MEN having any kind of control of control or trying anything different.  ( and yet they always claim they are different than other women dammit Kurt! LMAO =))   Ok, fine prove it hehe.

    This topic is one that I joke about on my facebook page too and women love to hound me about it and call me crazy but then…to my surprise sometimes, they are wanting to meet me too?! (WTF?)   It’s almost as if the very fact I had the balls to come out publicly it is attractive to them but they can’t say it or smtg?  Then you have the other group that is flat out bonkers and think I am a pig for suggesting such an crazy idea lol.

    But this goes back to putting the responsibility on THEM to sell monogamy to me versus in the past I was always defensive and it was me proving my way is better than hers.  I don’t even say “poly” really but just anything other than “the current traditional way” is all I know sweetie but why don’t you give me your ideas and solutions?  Anything but that 1 way I am open to listening to honey?

    [ insert crickets here with a blank stare ]    (talk over lol)

  163. Yes they even admit that they were the ones who terminated most or all the relationships and when you ask why they are like “because he wasn’t the right guy.” Hmm… wait a minute every time? Why were you taking the relationship like he was? Clearly you have no idea what you are doing and or dont know what you want or are completely useless at selecting partners and should just have someone else dictate it for you – or – just dont do monogamy! Of course all this pissed her off but she didn’t know what else to say! It was hilarious!

    But the biggest point is and main reason monogamy fails is that women are more attractive to you if you are poly at least sexually. If you commit to her only she gets less attracted to you. So even if men didn’t want poly (and many don’t!) women are the ones who kill monogamy by doing this.

  164. Actually, no. She doesn’t think that. Like most women, deep down she knows exactly what’s going on. She’ll never verbalize it, but she knows.

    Actually this linked article BD posted strikes way too close to home. I have spoken to 5 engaged women but I have spoken to women in relationships (serious long term) and women between relationships and they flat out told me without any alcohol that of course they would end it without hesitation if they met someone they liked more! That they are young still! And some women I recently discussed staying with a guy indefinitely got upset / laughed at the idea. Imagine you would go monogamous with such women! Haha, what a joke!

  165. @Alpha Omega

    I saw a young couple other day in Home Depot and he was getting bossed around by his NEWLYWED as she was so excited to decorate their new home lol.  I felt so sorry for that guy cuz I could just tell he is gonna be history once she gets a couple of babies outta him. ugh.

    But yeah that is kinda part of my talk now is:

    “ahhhhh ok sweetie so even IF I didn’t have issues with cheating it wouldn’t matter because I feel women hate monogamy more than men anyways or the majority of break ups and divorces wouldn’t be by women.  Yall are like cats and get bored once you know whats in that box and that is OK.  Cuz us men are like dogs so…”

    I don’t ever use the word “poly” really or have not yet.  It seems when I would be really strict with my definitions they would focus on attacking my views or the “poly view” versus providing me with their own solutions.  So, I leave it kinda gray or undefined at first.

    I can’t believe all 5 said that though!   Poor guys =(

     

  166. I don’t ever use the word “poly” really or have not yet. It seems when I would be really strict with my definitions they would focus on attacking my views or the “poly view” versus providing me with their own solutions. So, I leave it kinda gray or undefined at first.

    I kinda have 3 women in my portfolio now. One is “cheating” on her bf with me, I say in quotation marks because he kinda knows the situation and doesn’t dump her so is basically accepting it and she knows the full situation and is even interested in these things and thinks she wants to be poly. The other are new or relatively new and we haven’t discussed anything but I try to give them hints they might not be the only ones. I am curious if I can keep them indefinitely without ever discussing it directly. I am seeing that women pick up on these clues rather well and often deal with indirect communication. So maybe we shouldn’t just tell them anything and just do. You know, less talking and more fucking.

    Anyway, remember how I said I lecture the women? So this is the case where I’d lecture the hell out of her – if she clearly demonstrates complete unsuitability for monogamy (thinking she can say no to sex in a relationship, having had a lot of relationships that failed, having left the guy most of the time, not being able to promise it will last indefinitely…) and yet she thinks she somehow needs it / wants it / deserves it (lol).

  167. If you or I got received free money and social accolades for breaking up with our live-in girlfriends, we’d do the same thing.

    I had been thinking though in the past that instead I would like to see something like that the woman has to define very clearly at the start how long it’s going to last and then stick to that (so I can see how I can treat her and the relationship based on that) and if she elects to terminate / stop having sex with me earlier she needs to pay me a lot of money as a compensation. Or if she leaves / stops dating me without having a clear rational reason that I cannot argue with (If I find rational counter argument she has to stay or to pay).

    That would either make dating much easier and reliable and predictable or make me very rich. Either way, good. When the society fails due to all the feminist nonsense and we get patriarchy back this is something I would like to see.

    I can’t believe all 5 said that though! Poor guys =(

    They can rant about it online saying #metoo

  168. @Alpha Omega

    Oh damn if I hear the word “deserves” one more time I’m gonna puke.

    Or they say it like, “I NEED that (monogamy) and I don’t share Kurt…”. Ugh

    Key words in that worn out phrase is > I, I, I, I  (or me, me, me)

    It is almost a lil indicator to me that they could be very selfish actually and/or have double standards.  Kinda like when a lil kid grabs a toy outta another kids hand and says, “mine!” and won’t share their toys with others.  However, those same selfish brats are the 1st to whine if you get a new toy and don’t share it with them right?  Same here.  The selfish women don’t wanna be told by us men to not go out with her “guy friends” or text them or hand out with them but do you think most are OK with us “hanging out” with a female friend?  Especially if she is hot.  Nope.  They don’t share but they want to be a do it so it’s essentially a double standard and/or they are just too dumb to see it idk.

    I am amazed to this day though how few people ever put any thought into the feasibility of their serial monogamy system or maybe just how dumb people are in general about shit. Even if I wanted to do serial monogamy, many women are too busy or clueless about HOW to make it work.

    For example, one lady I been seeing now about 10 months that fits same descrip above loves to  make a guy believe in the beginning (and with stupid facebook memes) that they are very high sex drive, kinky, submissive, and pleasing etc. (don’t laugh I know).

    Well, she kept hinting about being monogamous and saying “what are we” etc and I told her that we only see each other 1x per week or 1x every 2 weeks on average though since you are so busy and very difficult to schedule shit with.  (anti planner type)

    She is like, “your point is what Kurt?”   LMFAO.  Total cluelessness!   So, I am like, “ahhhh (almost spit my beer out) so you honestly expect a high sex drive guy like me to wait around for 1 to 2 weeks with last minute plans when you find the time to come see me on your leisure?  What kind of man would agree to that kind of arrangement sweetie?”  (as I chuckle)

    Her > “I don’t know.  But I need that and feel I deserve that in a serious relationship because I need to feel secure blah blah blah…”.  me, me, me, me….I, I, I, I, I.  Same pattern….

    Me > “hmmm. well, OK….I feel I deserve a blow job every night so who’s gonna take care of that?” =))  (we both know 1 woman won’t wanna do that nor would I want 1 woman too have that kind of responsibility either so lol)

    It’s funny too cuz if you get them drinking a little on a 1st or 2nd date I’ll ask em, “so did your ex husband or ex BF want to have sex all the time?”  (pause)  Usually they will have a semi Freudian slip here and be like, “OMG my gosh YES all the fuckin time geez gross…” or something similar.

    They really have no clue what just occurred here until 1 or 2 months later when SHE NEEDS to be monogamous and I bring this conversation up.  Once I pocket 2 to 4 of these contradictory comments from them about their monogamous relationships problems, I would say its almost bating 100% that they come back at least 1 time but usually many more.  Once they get over the anger of how I used their own comments as to why I said no lol =)))

  169. If you or I got received free money and social accolades for breaking up with our live-in girlfriends, we’d do the same thing.

    Of course!

  170. The selfish women don’t wanna be told by us men to not go out with her “guy friends” or text them or hand out with them but do you think most are OK with us “hanging out” with a female friend? Especially if she is hot. Nope. They don’t share but they want to be a do it so it’s essentially a double standard and/or they are just too dumb to see it idk.

    This is something else. The standard set up is no one likes this on either side but then if you are a soft pus boi they end up controlling you but if you are tough traditional alpha you end up controlling them.

    Or they say it like, “I NEED that (monogamy) and I don’t share Kurt…”. Ugh

    Haha I love it when they say the share word it plays into my advantage during a discussion / lecturing session. Then I say so you mean you think of me as your property? And shes like what? no… Well good, then there is nothing to share or not share! *irritated but silent face from her*

    Cracks me up every time.

    Even if I wanted to do serial monogamy, many women are too busy or clueless about HOW to make it work

    It’s worse than that – they have not even considered that they are doing serial monogamy. They just think “it didn’t work”.

    Well, she kept hinting about being monogamous and saying “what are we”

    Just act clueless too, it makes it funny (for you) and postpones the innevitable: We are Kurt and [hername], for example. And act surprised and clueless when she’s like that’s not what she meant.

    She is like, “your point is what Kurt?” LMFAO. Total cluelessness! So, I am like, “ahhhh (almost spit my beer out) so you honestly expect a high sex drive guy like me to wait around for 1 to 2 weeks with last minute plans when you find the time to come see me on your leisure? What kind of man would agree to that kind of arrangement sweetie?” (as I chuckle)

    You verbalised too much! It’s actually borderline lecturing – exactly what I used to do and still do sometimes though I take it further and start explaining how clueless she is. I know, I know, but I try to do it less now.

    So I was dating this girl a while back who at some point knew I had another girl and we kept having conversations about poly and mono and they were kind of lecturing conversations from my side often but on the other hand she did ask some critical questions but sometimes in irrational way but anyway she knew what the situation was and kept it up but then kept saying cant you just stop seeing the other girl for a while? or she was gonna leave to travel for a year and so she asked if i cant stop seeing her until then? and one time she asked if I would “wait for her” when she was gone…. my immediate reflex reaction without thinking was to start laughing. And she was like why are you laughing with a genuinely confused face. No comment, dude.

    It’s funny too cuz if you get them drinking a little on a 1st or 2nd date I’ll ask em, “so did your ex husband or ex BF want to have sex all the time?” (pause) Usually they will have a semi Freudian slip here and be like, “OMG my gosh YES all the fuckin time geez gross…” or something similar.

    I keep hearing that on this blog but it is def not my experience. I keep dating women or talking to women who complain how little sex they had and often tell me how I am saving them. I guess like we said before, majority dates low sex drive betas…

    Once I pocket 2 to 4 of these contradictory comments from them about their monogamous relationships problems, I would say its almost bating 100% that they come back at least 1 time but usually many more. Once they get over the anger of how I used their own comments as to why I said no lol =)))

    So you really do lecture them just like me. I guess my struggle is how to lecture her without making it too patronizing.

  171. I am not sure what I am going to tell the women started seeing now because they seem to be rather inexperienced / not had that many relationships and they were long ones.

  172. @Alpha Omega

    So you really do lecture them just like me. I guess my struggle is how to lecture her without making it too patronizing.

    ====

    Well, I guess I see it more as teaching them vs lecturing but whatever lol.  What I do is take a lil bit of an old sales technique I learned from my state farm days called, “question based selling”, add in some humor if I can, then I always end it with coming back to blame myself as if I am damaged lol.

    So, a) I have cheated before sweetie b) but even IF I knew how not to, why did you say blah blah blah that one day???   c) once I realize she can’t or won’t answer the question(s) and feels on the spot, I circle back to how it won’t matter because I would still have my issues with monogamy. (blame myself)

    I seem to do best when I come off more as the damaged or more of a mess, instead of them.  So even when it is 100% clear that they are way more damaged than me, I still manage to convince them that I am more damaged than they are lmao.  Its funny cuz if you say it enough, they will believe it too.  I even admit to them early on that “I am not totally mature all the time, do dumb shit occasionally, have cheated before, alpha male, rebel, am a goofball/big kid, etc. so if you are looking for a Mr Perfect sweetie, I am just letting you know now, it ain’t me TRUST ME!”   Her; “oh no no I am the same way too so I get it…”  =)))    (3 months later, “Kurt I really wish you would just grow up and take my comments serious sometimes!”) lmfao

    I think its called the “sandwich method” maybe where you stick the point you wanna get across in the middle and ask a question vs make a statement to help camouflage it some.  Makes them less defensive but still frustrated them, which can often times lead to angry sex lol =))

    But this drives them mad and offers this “push/pull” tension too many women (esp drama queens) need in their daily lives to feel life is worth living and to keep coming back to a bad boy that is a mess they can try to fix etc lol

  173. Ah, the questions technique. Of course, I know that very well. This is the basis of coaching (real coaching not the consulting that a lot of people nowadays label as coaching). Women love coaching because they love this stuff actually, so it works very well.

    Yeah, this is what I try to do more nowadays instead of telling her what to do and what to think and explaining to her that her ideas are falls and not rational and therefore she needs to just listen to a responsible rational adult like me and just follow my instructions which usually just pisses them off for some reason I try more to ask them questions to push them in the right direction. Not easy though, my natural tendency is to tell people what to do and what to think. If she says but this is against what I want or against my believes then I am like ok then change what you want and change your believes.

  174. @Alpha Omega

    Yeah one of my fav Questions when they bring up wanting a “real relationship” (monogamy) etc is:

    “remember that I prefer long-term relationships as I said before and you agreed with me back then!?  So, do you want a Real Relationship or a Long-Term Relationship?  And you can’t pick both sweetie!!

    =))  

     

  175. “remember that I prefer long-term relationships as I said before and you agreed with me back then!?  So, do you want a Real Relationship or a Long-Term Relationship?  And you can’t pick both sweetie!!

    I would say something else here. Like why is it not real, is it imaginary? One girl said once that she thinking like what is she to me? That’s when you tell her she knows it is with her so it doesn’t affect how you treat her in fact is is good for her! Then she asked how is it good for her? You say well I have choice and I am still with you! So you don’t have to worry I would leave you for another girl! And you don’t have to worry I am only with you to get sex / because I can’t get a better girl (which is the case with a lot of guys and you often can’t even tell…) because I have other options and am still seeing you! Mine are both real and long term! Just not exclusive.

  176. @Sabrina: please, please, please come back to this blog in 1, 3, 5, maybe even 10 years and report how your life DID turn out. I wish you all the best and I truly hope It turns out as you predict. But I must say I find your consistent use of WILL when talking about distant future quite entertaining (as in I will do this, my bf/hubby will do that,  etc.). Most people would choose the words like PLAN (I plan on doing this or that) – even BD with his proven track record of consistency at doing what he says he will do.

    @BD: well, you say your income goes up with Sabrina’s and similar comments, so please make the necessary arrangement so she comes back – you will know best if this can be done at all and she can be “convinced” or compensated in some way or it’s entirely up to Sabrina 😊

    Lovergirl did comment for quite a while, right?

  177. @Sabrina: please, please, please come back to this blog in 1, 3, 5, maybe even 10 years and report how your life DID turn out. I wish you all the best and I truly hope It turns out as you predict. But I must say I find your consistent use of WILL when talking about distant future quite entertaining (as in I will do this, my bf/hubby will do that, etc.). Most people would choose the words like PLAN (I plan on doing this or that) – even BD with his proven track record of consistency at doing what he says he will do.

    Does it matter how it turns out with Sabrina? When you have statistics based on millions of cases then what difference does it make? If it works as she says there’s then she is one of the few who made it work but I doubt she will know why she made it work and if it doesn’t work like for most then she just proves something you already knew.

    But there is something about a person who goes to a blog like this and has a need of explaining why it works different in they’re case… hmm 😉

  178. Black dragon (or anybody else who’d like to comment)  do you think girls come back after you’ve been monogamous, but broke up with them because you want the freedom to sleep with other girls?

    was with a girl casually for 6 months before agreeing to become monogamous, she had been pushing for it after 1 month.

    spent a year nominally monogamous but I didnt stop sleeping with other girls.

    broke up with her 3 times when the pretending bothered me too much and I just wanted my freedom.

    But she was such a giving person who treated me like a god in her life, she just basically waited me out every time.

    so after 1.5 years I let her move in with me but after 6 months I had to move her out again.

    she did nothing wrong at all, amazing sex, homemade Italian cuisine at all times, clean, tidy super submissive but I just got claustrophobic and missed sleeping with other girls.

    she wouldn’t agree to me being able to sleep with other girls, so eventually after trying for 2 months to persuade me to reconsider, asked me to let her go and not keep pulling her back in.

    so I’m respecting that unless she comes back on my terms.

    She still keeps posting sentimental stuff on her IG so I know she’s still hurting but I wonder if a woman can ever take a step backwards after being monogamous and in ‘Disney love’?

  179. @Jamie: hit her up, meet at your place, escalate. Basically, read the “there’s this one girl” article, which BD will probably post here if he sees your comment. There’s no “fixing” this, you just do the standard thing to bring a girl back (see first sentence), then take it from there. Delay verbalization for weeks to months, then if she still refuses your nonmono deal, nicely let her go, go no-contact for 4-6 months and repeat the cycle (if you want to ofc).

  180. Thanks for the reply man, I know I could do that anytime I like and have done it 3 or 4 times the last 2 months since we officially split.

    She always comes hoping I want to get back mono with her and we always have great sex. But I don’t want to keep using her like that, she’s so hung up on me emotionally and running out of time for kids at 31.

    my question if not clear, was more about the difference in likelihood of a girl coming back between those that never got monogamy from you and are probably chasing it, even for years and those that you made the mistake of giving it to, including cohabitation, but then try to take it back down a level to living apart and just spending a few days a week with as my main girl.

    I know I’m not in love with her, the NRE passed after a year or so, so I’m in no danger of caving to monogamy again but we still get on so well in and out of the bedroom i’d ideally like to have her around as my main girl a couple times a week.

    just a case of leaving it in her court now and see if she caves to my terms.

     

    thanks again.

     

  181. I think writing this out has helped me answer my own question, and the answer is yes, she will be back at some point.

    The connection is too deep and way more than Just sex.

    After we split she’s now in the process of buying a place a 2 minute walk from mine, that’s probably not a coincidence, the girl sticks like glue lol.

  182. she wouldn’t agree to me being able to sleep with other girls, so eventually after trying for 2 months to persuade me to reconsider, asked me to let her go and not keep pulling her back in.

    What you did wrong was waiting for her permission to agree. That is not how you do it. You tell her you are going to do it. It needs to be purely informational from her side and you stress you aren’t asking for permission.

    She always comes hoping I want to get back mono with her and we always have great sex. But I don’t want to keep using her like that, she’s so hung up on me emotionally and running out of time for kids at 31.

    If you like her a lot then tell her she can have kids with you and stay with you indefinitely but you are going to be having other girls on the side in a discreet and safe way.

  183. @Jamie

    Odds are much higher she will come back than if you would have told her yes to monogamy.

    They OCD and obcess over why you won’t be exclusive with them and constantly think how they can get it or why you are so different.  Their frustration goes through the roof, which keeps attraction up like BD says.

    Sometimes they even run off and get married to a beta as a way to “show him” but then you just set the timer for 2-4 years lol. (unless you are OK with sleeping with married women)

    I remember back when I first found this blog it was so surreal because it reminded me of my mother sitting in the hallway on the floor crying (I was 9 to 11 yrs old) over this ONE bf of hers that would never commit to her.  She would set on the phone with her friends or sisters and talk for hours as to how she could get him or this or that lol.   He eventually moved away and dated others and eventually found a beta that had been divorced 4 x to marry.  But whats funny is I don’t remember her talking or obsessing over any of the other guys really.  Or crying over any other guys.  ONLY THAT ONE GUY THAT WOULD NOT GIVE HER WHAT SHE WANTED.  Hmmm…

    To this day, she is still married to the Beta (my step-dad) unbelievably but she still has deep feelings for that 1 that she could not tame.

    Do you tell her that you love her even though you don’t?  I guess I would say to be careful living with someone or making your main long-term lady one that you do not love?

    Sounds to me like you really might love her and that is the part you are coming to grips with lol =))

  184. @Jamie: I think that as long as you never lie to her you’re not wronging her. If she’s emotionally attached to you then you simply owe her never to deceive her into thinking you’re the guy she’ll have a mono relationship and kids with. As long as she’s aware of this, it doesn’t matter how many times she comes back – even as a FB while she herself has a serious boyfriend – , she’s a big girl and is accountable to her choices. Just don’t deceive and you’re in the clear. You have no obligation to completely stop seeing her just because she experiences frustration when she chooses to see you again.

  185. @Jamie: I think that as long as you never lie to her you’re not wronging her. If she’s emotionally attached to you then you simply owe her never to deceive her into thinking you’re the guy she’ll have a mono relationship and kids with. As long as she’s aware of this, it doesn’t matter how many times she comes back – even as a FB while she herself has a serious boyfriend – , she’s a big girl and is accountable to her choices. Just don’t deceive and you’re in the clear. You have no obligation to completely stop seeing her just because she experiences frustration when she chooses to see you again.

    Very well said, except he can have kids with her if they both wants as long as she understands it will not stop him from having other girls…

  186. I remember back when I first found this blog it was so surreal because it reminded me of my mother sitting in the hallway on the floor crying (I was 9 to 11 yrs old) over this ONE bf of hers that would never commit to her. She would set on the phone with her friends or sisters and talk for hours as to how she could get him or this or that lol. He eventually moved away and dated others and eventually found a beta that had been divorced 4 x to marry. But whats funny is I don’t remember her talking or obsessing over any of the other guys really. Or crying over any other guys. ONLY THAT ONE GUY THAT WOULD NOT GIVE HER WHAT SHE WANTED. Hmmm…

    To this day, she is still married to the Beta (my step-dad) unbelievably but she still has deep feelings for that 1 that she could not tame.

    Whenever I hear stories like this it makes me think that women are idiots who don’t know what they want.

  187. @Alpha Omega

    Oh they know what they want, until they don’t want it anymore lol. (point of this post right?)

    Haven’t you ever had a chic say, “Kurt, I just thought I loved him but it wasn’t really love after all…”.

    But then they will say, “…I really do love you Kurt and would be there til the end for you…”  LMFAO =))

    Only women can say shit like that and brain wash themselves lol

     

     

  188. Haven’t you ever had a chic say, “Kurt, I just thought I loved him but it wasn’t really love after all…”.

    No, since my name is not Kurt 😉

    But then they will say, “…I really do love you Kurt and would be there til the end for you…” LMFAO =))

    Only women can say shit like that and brain wash themselves lol

    You know the whole thing about giving someone a man’s word? I guess it used to be a thing more in the past than now, but I never really understood it as a kid what that stuff is about until recently when I realized that a woman’s word doesn’t mean a thing. I never had a woman keeping her promises to me if it wasn’t convenient to her anymore – she would bring up some nonsense excuse like she doesnt FEEL the same anymore or anything like that. Not all guys, but a lot of guys would be like well ok promise is a promise or at least would try to compensate you in some other way / find a compromise with you / with they’re woman /ex. Not women. That is exactly why I realise I need to be strict on the no to monogamy with women.

    Oh they know what they want, until they don’t want it anymore lol. (point of this post right?)

    Point of my comment exactly. If it changed easily / can change easily it means you didn’t (maybe still don’t?) know what you want by definition.
    But actually… that is not really my point. It’s more like the fact they want stuff that doesn’t work together at all / is contradictory. I could understand with virgins / teenage girls but when I see it from women in the mid twenties who had many guys or worse yet women over 30, I would expect they should know everything very well and act accordingly otherwise it’s like what did they learn from all this? Nothing?
    For example if she wants a guy who isnt shy / is not submissive / is experienced with women etc and they think he is going to do what they say and stop seeing other women… if she wants that she should hit up some nerdy guy who doesn’t know how to talk to women.

  189. @Alpha Omega

    Yeah no kidding.  They just like Cats in many ways…

    It don’t matter what it is – one second they happy and next they clawing you up.

    Cats are horrible at making up their minds. One minute they want to be petted, and the next they want to go outside to chase mice.

    Women also cannot make up their minds most of the time. Oh, you want to go to a simple dinner? Lets sit here and make a pro/con list about each restaurant before going to eat.

    Cats are impatient when it comes to needing attention. If you’re reading something, a cat will have no problem blocking your laptop from your view, forcing you to pet them. Much like cats, women want your attention 24/7, no matter what you are doing. Sorry if you are trying to read, but we need to tell you about these new shoes we bought right now.

    Or say you had 3 cats in 1 room they gonna fight and be funny as hell to watch too! lol

    on and on and on….picky w/ their food.  They will get payback and pee on your best shoes. etc.

    Sure, us men are like Dogs but neither cats or dogs like to be Monogamous but could you imagine a Cat agreeing to that arrangement lol =))  Fuck no….once the cat got it, it would be bored of it or change mind lol.

  190. Yeah no kidding. They just like Cats in many ways…

    I have used this comparison before, since a long time, even before I was doing poly or had any real experience with women.

    It don’t matter what it is – one second they happy and next they clawing you up.

    If you stand your ground and take precautions (including no monogamy) they don’t really get to claw you up. One thing I see now is that I have to be also a bit strict with how many drinks we have / I pay for her on first dates. A lot of bitches who let me pay and don’t even say thanks and then they don’t wanna meet again. And especially seeing that I have seen no correlation between whether I pay or not and her staying long term / sex happening I probably should stop paying. I have noticed that there were a few women who paid for me and at first I didn’t like it /refused it but then I realized that they usually do this if they don’t plan to meet me again so if that happens again now I accept.

    Cats are horrible at making up their minds. One minute they want to be petted, and the next they want to go outside to chase mice.

    Yes but on the other hand I always liked this about cats – they are both fun to watch and when we had cats at home with parents as a kid I liked the fact that this meant they were low maintenance, unlike a dog which requires constant attention. I guess it’s a good comparison. I had women before who were extreme submissive, required a lot of attention and were always there for me: for example one would literally sit there waiting for me to finish something / finish packing and didn’t want to do anything else on her own, just to wait for me. At first that was fun but at some point it becomes annoying as hell. I guess again the point is to have many women – if they are like cats you just play with the ones who are in the mood and if they are like dogs you just ignore them when you are not in the mood (and call one of the other women who is more cat like). Either way works.

    Lets sit here and make a pro/con list about each restaurant before going to eat.

    This is a big mistake a lot of guys make letting women chose restaurant / asking what they wanna eat. I never understood this until I realized all those guys / women complaining about this was ultra betas. I tell a woman which restaurant I have chosen / tell her what we are going to eat. (I just check if theres anything she doesn’t wanna eat (as in cannot or maybe had too much of it recently – usually thats one or two things) and thats that.)

    Much like cats, women want your attention 24/7, no matter what you are doing. Sorry if you are trying to read, but we need to tell you about these new shoes we bought right now.

    This works if you are really dominant with them – “Not now. And don’t ask me again.” – submissive women even love this! And the dominants… well you don’t date dominants anyway beyond a sex buddy…

    Or say you had 3 cats in 1 room they gonna fight and be funny as hell to watch too! lol

    Or you make them chase a laser pointer! Similarly, I often play tease a woman. For example I let her take charge and boss me around and then at some point I break her rules and then shes like oh no you broke the rules you cant have me now! And then I just grab her and force myself on her but don’t really fuck her just tease her sexually to the point she begs me to do it. A lot of fun for us both.

    They will get payback and pee on your best shoes. etc.

    I am glad women don’t do that part.

    Sure, us men are like Dogs but neither cats or dogs like to be Monogamous but could you imagine a Cat agreeing to that arrangement lol =)) Fuck no….once the cat got it, it would be bored of it or change mind lol.

    I don’t know I guess I am more like a cat.. or a lion? Tiger? I had women call me both. I am def not like a dog and I hope you aren’t either. Maybe a wolf yes (also been called that) but not a dog. When a woman calls you a bad boy you can be like well that works because you can call a good boy to your dog.

    Tom cat also works. There are military fighter planes called Tom Cat.

  191. @Alpha Omega

    Oh man I do not mesh well with the Alpha or Dom Women at all after about 1-3 months, if that.   I have had one slap me in a restaurant and others flat out walk out on me and make a scene.  I almost got told to leave one place too if we did not calm down lol.

    I think it is because I am very laid back so much so that it pisses them off and they blow up and you see their bitch come out.  Plus, I am very blunt and say wtf I want (but I do it in a way that is kinda silly or sarcastic maybe? Like a Chevy Chase+Vince Vaughn maybe?) .  But I also have a big smile and know how to charm them a lil at first so they assume they can get what (or they assume that I may be a Beta at first) they want and once the demands start, they release oh fuck this guy that looks like a Teddy Bear is really a Grizzly Bear on the inside lol.  (these encounters would make a fucking hilarious hidden camera youtube channel and are almost worth me going on dates just to fuck with them!)

    I do love Wolves but I am pretty sure they are Monogamous so lmao.  =))

  192. Monogamous wolves? Where do you come up with this stuff?

    I don’t think any herd / pack animals are monogamous. It’s just not possible in that kind of setting.

    Oh man I do not mesh well with the Alpha or Dom Women at all after about 1-3 months, if that. I have had one slap me in a restaurant and others flat out walk out on me and make a scene. I almost got told to leave one place too if we did not calm down lol.

    I think it is because I am very laid back so much so that it pisses them off and they blow up and you see their bitch come out. Plus, I am very blunt and say wtf I want (but I do it in a way that is kinda silly or sarcastic maybe? Like a Chevy Chase+Vince Vaughn maybe?) . But I also have a big smile and know how to charm them a lil at first so they assume they can get what (or they assume that I may be a Beta at first) they want and once the demands start, they release oh fuck this guy that looks like a Teddy Bear is really a Grizzly Bear on the inside lol. (these encounters would make a fucking hilarious hidden camera youtube channel and are almost worth me going on dates just to fuck with them!)

    It’s because they thought you were someone else at first so they feel entitled to it, that’s why they blow up.

  193. Thanks guys

    @AlphaOmega – I don’t want more kids, I have 3 from my marriage so she’d Be better finding someone who does.

    @Kurt – Yeah I do love her, not in the foolish way I fell in love with my ex wife when I was young, but it’s love.

    @Antekirtt – yep, that’s my reasoning now, just be totally upfront, if she stays it’s good, I’d she doesn’t, I’ll live with it.

     

    But oddly enough, after 2 weeks no contact since she last came over ‘to talk’,

    she hit me up again last night with a long rant about how she can’t move on, I said I’ll be home in 40 if you want to talk, she ended up staying the night.

    Chatting again this morning I laid out my position again and crying, she said she can’t deal with it, why couldn’t I just do what other guys do and if something happened every now and then, just not tell her about it!

    id already figured a long time ago that I could do that with her, she’s overlooked a few things that should have set alarm bells ringing that I was sleeping with other girls.

    but it’s not me, I don’t like lying because it makes me feel like a weak man, scared of the repurcissions of being myself. I rather be totally free and open and deal with any losses that may come.

    plus living together was claustrophobic.

  194. id already figured a long time ago that I could do that with her, she’s overlooked a few things that should have set alarm bells ringing that I was sleeping with other girls.

    Women are surprisingly easy about this stuff and tolerate a lot as long as you dont put it in theyre face. You have to be discreet about it.

  195. @ Alpha Omega

    “Monogamous wolves? Where do you come up with this stuff?  I don’t think any herd / pack animals are monogamous. It’s just not possible in that kind of setting.”

    ===

    Yeah I have a painting on my wall of a Wolf so I was a lil surprised to learn that too.  Here is a link about the Wolves: https://www.livescience.com/32146-are-humans-meant-to-be-monogamous.html

    @ jamie

    “plus living together was claustrophobic.”

    ===

    Yeah I have lived w/ 2 ladies so far after by divorce 5 years ago and it has been tough.  1 for 6 months and 1 for 9 months.  With me working from home office, it can really get old fast.  I need my time to brainstorm and re-charge too.  But they see it as if I am running away etc..

    Currently, IDK if I am an OLTR guy or multiple MLTR or multiple FWB guy for the long-term.  I kinda think the OLTR deal would be for me in my 50s or 60s AFTER I make more $$$.  Maybe I think that if I live with a woman too soon again, it will effect my success and goals too much.  And I am my own worse enemy too because it is almost like I wanna just have sex all the time instead of work lol.

    But the thing I could not handle was the constant “where are you going” or “when you gonna be back” and “can I go with you?”.   I missed the freedom of just being able to run and jump in my Jeep and go wherever the fuck I wanna go, even if its 3 AM in the morning lol.  Maybe I realized I hate the feeling of being controlled and watched and not missing her too?   Tricky stuff!

     

  196. Chatting again this morning I laid out my position again and crying, she said she can’t deal with it, why couldn’t I just do what other guys do and if something happened every now and then, just not tell her about it!
    id already figured a long time ago that I could do that with her, she’s overlooked a few things that should have set alarm bells ringing that I was sleeping with other girls.
    but it’s not me, I don’t like lying because it makes me feel like a weak man

    @Jamie: you shouldn’t “lay out your position” in some spontaneous chat. You do it at a time of your choosing that you prepared carefully. Avoid having a dramatic talk every time she bounces back, she’ll get negative associations about you. Just resume seeing her and don’t encourage these things; if she insists, emphasize that you’ll always be discreet about it, won’t rub it in her face, etc. It’s not like you’re gonna be saying “I can’t meet you today, I’m fucking someone else” lol. If she wants the nonmonogamy minus the verbalization, consider giving her just that. It shouldn’t be very hard to make sure she knows exactly what you’re doing without saying it to her face.

  197. @Alpha Omega

    Look in 2nd paragraph were it talks about beavers, wolves and bats being loyal….

     

     

     

     

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