For my regular readers, I apologize that I have to divert today’s topic into something like this. This is one of my “link to this” articles that I write in order to prevent me from having to repeat myself in the future. From now on, if anyone says or implies that I’m lying, I can just link to this comprehensive article and move on.

Over the years, a few angry guys in the PUA / pick-up / daygame / night game / seduction world have become upset with me and have accused me of lying about everything (or at least have strongly implied that I am). As my public footprint continues to grow, this complaint will probably increase as well. Here is my official response.

As I have said before, I am not a pick-up artist. I do not teach cold approach game. I have never taught this, and I’ve been very clear about this. Real PUAs or PUA gurus or seduction gurus have much more game than me, teach better pick-up techniques than me, and in many cases have had sex with more women than me.

I have never done night game, don’t teach it, and never have.

I have only done concentrated daygame for a few months way back in 2009 where I did have sex with a few younger women. I have published zero articles about how to do daygame (other than one brief one about ten years ago on a forum that no longer exists, talking about what I was doing back then).

Of the seven books I have written, I only mention daygame in two chapters in one of them. Other than that, I do not teach daygame, never have, and never purported to be a daygame expert, even when I am directly asked about daygame.

On the first page of my original versions of my dating ebooks, I even said on the first page of those books, “I am not a PUA.”

I’ve been very clear about this and always have been. I don’t teach pick-up. I teach comprehensive lifestyle design for men, of which getting laid and quality relationships with women is but one of several key components (in addition to outcome independence, location-independent income, and so on). So if anyone attacks me for not teaching cold approach game, my answer is, “Yes, that’s correct. Duh. I’ve been very clear about that. Why are you upset?” (I will answer that question at the end of this article.)

If you still think I’m somehow lying regarding my dating history or techniques, here are the things you must specifically respond to in order to prove your point:

Item One: For the past ten years, since 2009, I have consistently written thousands, yes, thousands of articles, blog posts, and forum posts regarding my experiences with women and the techniques I recommend. Moreover, unlike most other bloggers in this space, I have never taken a break. Unlike many other PUA or manosphere bloggers I could name, I have never:

  • “Taken a little break.”
  • Gone on “hiatus.”
  • Gotten “busy with work” and didn’t post for a few months (or years).
  • Shacked up with a monogamous girlfriend who I thought was “the one” and vanished off the internet, only to return a year later after an embarrassing break-up.
  • Become traditionally monogamously married and left the scene. (And get divorced later, of course.)
  • Shifted my content to politics, losing my soul in the process.
  • Suddenly changed my mind about the dating advice I was giving and started teaching the opposite.
  • And so on.

(Oh my, I could name so many big name guys guilty of one or more of these things… but as is the case so often, I have to be the adult in the room so I won’t.)

I have posted consistently about these topics since late 2009, every week, with no breaks at all during that entire time. I have also written seven books during that time. I am an organized businessman here to run a serious business, with a long-term Mission and plan. This Blackdragon endeavor has always had a 15 year time horizon on it when I started in 2009, and I always do what I promise. Thus, I will be posting this kind of content until at least 2024, just as I’ve promised all along. (2009 + 15 years = 2024.)

So I’ve written mass quantities of content about this for an extremely long time. If I was lying about all of this, nine or ten years ago I would have been called out for all of my inconsistencies within just a few months. (I’ve seen this happen with other guys in the PUA world who tried to start blogs or ebook businesses, who really were lying.)

Even if I was mostly telling the truth and only lying about, say, 20% of this, then based on that sheer amount of content, I would have to be some kind of super-genius with a perfect, photographic memory in order to keep all those thousands of details completely consistent over a 10+ year period. I’d have to be some kind of superhuman.

Since I’m not a superhuman, I have indeed made a small handful of mistakes over the years regarding minor details because of lapses in memory (it’s hard to remember stuff from 10 years ago, even when you keep journals and spreadsheets like I do). But if I was lying about this stuff, anyone would be able to go through my vast amounts of content and provide pages and pages of clear inconsistencies and falsehoods. No one has ever done this, including the guys who have hated me for a very long time.

Why is that?

If you think I’m lying, please explain how I’ve been able to lie so often and consistently for over a decade and be able to keep all of those lies straight.

Item Two: The only actual point I’ve ever seen made against me that is not an emotional rant is the argument that I have not publicly shown pictures or videos of women I’ve had sex with.

I have sex with (largely) American women on American soil. I do not go to places like Romania, Ukraine, Columbia or Russia to get laid, where I would be (reasonably) free from lawsuits by posting pictures of my sexual conquests.

I have been advised by several different attorneys that because of my status of being a high-income American businessman and public figure living in America and having sex with large numbers of American women that I would be at great risk of lawsuits if I started showing you pictures or videos of the women I’ve had sex with now or in the past. And yes, this includes the option of showing a picture of an American woman, pronouncing to the entire world that I’ve fucked her, and putting a little black bar over her eyes. She could still easily make things legal if she wanted, and would be encouraged by modern-day #MeToo society to do so.

Moreover, some of you non-Americans guys don’t seem to understand what the word “lawsuit” means in an American context. It is perfectly legal for me to put pictures of women I’ve been with on my web sites. That isn’t the problem. The problem is that lawsuits have absolutely nothing to do with breaking the law. In the USA, I can sue you for any reason I want even if you clearly haven’t broken any laws. Even if I lose and you “win,” and even if you never actually have to go to court, you still have to pay thousands of dollars in legal fees. It’s ridiculous and unfair, and perhaps now you see the problem (and yet another reason why I’m soon moving out of this insane country).

I have indeed shown pictures of many of the women I’ve had sex with when I do private seminars (not every seminar I’ve done, but many of them), as those men who have attended can attest. But posting them online is a completely different scenario.

As I’ve said before, dude, I would love to post pictures of the women I’ve had sex with. I have pictures of almost all of them in my encrypted files. I’m a guy and I’m an arrogant fuck. I’d love to brag. But unless you’re willing to pay all of my legal fees and loss of income if I am threatened legally, I don’t know of any easy way to show these pictures/videos publicly.

Secondly, I know for a fact that the majority of the guys who are really angry about this wouldn’t be satisfied if I did show pictures/videos. They would simply accuse me lying again, that I was hiring models or whatever, since it’s easy to accuse someone of “lying” when you don’t like that person or that person’s advice (as well as another reason I’ll explain at the end of this article). Therefore, I would take all of this legal risk for largely no reason.

But I’ll make a deal with you. If anyone would like to put up a bond or escrow account that would cover all of my legal bills and/or loss of income while dealing with legal threats (I don’t know how much, but it would be measured in the thousands of dollars), as soon as I’ve confirmed the funds are available, I will immediately post pics on this blog of at least 20 women I’ve had sex with, and I’m taking about normal Blackdragon online dating, not any kind of sugar daddy game. I will even give you a percentage of any temporary increase in sales that might occur because of the publicity gained (if any).

If you’re interested in doing this, seriously, email us and my staff will put you in touch with my attorney to work out all the financial details. (You won’t talk to me. I’m too busy.) This is not a joke and I am 100% serious.

And if your response is, “I don’t want to take that risk!”, then congratulations, you’ve just proved my entire point.

Item Three: On all of my books/ebooks (with a few unusual exceptions) I have, and always had, a 100% lifetime money-back guarantee. Not a 30 day guarantee. Not a 60 day guarantee. A lifetime guarantee that literally never expires. This is always honored (with a few rare exceptions of a few guys trying to buy different books over and over again and always conveniently asking for refunds on all of them, but this is extremely rare).

This is because I follow my own business advice, that you should always offer the absolute best guarantee on the products you sell since your sales will increase more than the few scammers who ask for their money back just because they’re ripping you off and want your content for free. If you’re selling proven, quality information, you have nothing to worry about by offering really fantastic guarantees.

No one else in the entire manosphere / PUA with an audience of any real size offers a lifetime guarantee on their products (that I know of). This includes some of the guys who say or imply that I am lying.

My return rate on these books was around 3% for many years. That means 33 guys had to purchase a book from me for one to ask for a refund. Moreover, back then, most of the guys asking for refunds did so not because of the content but because of some aspect of the presentation they didn’t like (they found some typos and got upset, or they didn’t like the font I used, etc, and yes, I’m serious).

I say “back then” because since updating and re-writing my new versions of my dating books (here), my return rate has dropped to just over 1%.

If I’m a liar, if I’m just making up all these fake techniques that don’t work, please explain why I’m getting a 1% return rate on my books when I should be getting 10%, 20%, or 30% returns once guys try my stuff and none of it works.

Item Four: I openly talk about occasionally paying for sex via sugar daddy game and have for about 2-3 years now. Granted, I never started paying for sex until I was in my mid-40s or so (I’m much older than the majority of you reading this, and in a very different phase of life), but I have still done it and continue to do it to some degree, and plan on doing more of it in the future. This has enraged some folks in the PUA community, as I knew it would.

If I’m a liar about me being such a badass with all the attractive women I’ve had sex with for free, why on Earth would I publicly admit to paying for sex? And talk about it as much as I do? That makes no sense. If I was a liar, why wouldn’t I just be banging these women, keeping the financial aspects a secret, and pretending to the world that I wasn’t paying them? Please explain.

Alrightee, those are the fact-based responses. If you still think I’m a liar and making some or all of this stuff up, you have some very difficult arguments to make based on all of the above. I’m happy to hear you make them as long as you refrain from blatant trolling or ad hominem personal attacks (which are not allowed on this blog and never have been).

I’m also happy to talk to any other PUA / manosphere content provider (who has a real audience, that is; not just any random guy with a blog they just started) if they are still upset or concerned about any of this. My door is always open to you guys.

So those are the facts. Now for an opinion. This is just an opinion and I could be wrong since I can’t read people’s minds, so bear that in mind.

The reason most of these guys are angry with me or are calling me a liar is not because they think I’m a liar. Otherwise they’d have much more evidence from my decade of consistent content and sales other than just “I’ve never seen pictures.”

Instead, it’s because they are mostly Thrill of the Hunt guys who strongly believe that teaching men dating methods that do not include cold approach is somehow a shitty thing to do. They think that getting laid via online dating is not real game (which it isn’t, based on their definition of the word “game”) and that teaching men how to get laid with attractive women without having to walk up to a stranger in real life is somehow hurting men, or teaching them to be pussies, or something… I’m not really sure.

Some of these guys are now even more upset because of the increased about of attention I’m getting and money I’m making due, in part, to teaching non-cold approach dating methods for men.

I understand. While I don’t completely agree with this argument, since getting laid with online dating does require some measure of real-life woman skill (otherwise you’d just have a bunch of first dates that went nowhere), I do understand this argument, understand its merits, and I have no problem with it.

The problem is that using facts and logic often don’t work on these guys because the argument they’re saying, which is: “This guy is lying!” is not the argument they’re actually thinking or making, which is: “This guy shouldn’t be making all this money or getting all this attention teaching techniques I don’t like!!!” This is why, when you point out facts and logic, these guys often just ignore what you just said and turn around and launch ad hominem attacks, because they can’t defend a point they’re not really making.

These conversations would be much easier if these guys were more honest about the argument they’re actually trying to make. If someone said, “Blackdragon sucks! He teaches online dating and that’s not real game! No one should listen to him!” that’s perfectly fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

But if you say or imply that “Blackdragon is a liar because he’s making money selling dating material but I’ve never seen pictures!” then you’re just making yourself look very silly. And if you think that’s incorrect, great, scroll up and respond to all the facts I laid out above. I can’t wait to hear your rational, logical, fact-based arguments.

As a quick aside to those of you building Alpha 2.0 businesses, if you’re selling hard products this doesn’t really matter, but if you’re selling anything having to do with you or your personality online, remember that having haters is a key part of your business strategy. Haters make you money. Haters provide lots of free traffic and publicity. People like Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter have made millions upon millions of dollars directly because of their haters. Donald Trump became elected to the Presidency because of the publicity generated by his haters. Tim Ferriss has said that if he doesn’t have at least one person calling him a liar in every article he writes then he’s not doing his job. He’s right.

Every time I’ve been attacked on some website somewhere in some dedicated way (and it’s only happened 3-4 times in 10+ years) I always experience at least an 17% boost in book sales, sometimes as high as 24%. This includes when it happened last week (an immediate 19% spike in book sales and a similar increase in blog and mailing list subscriptions).

Having haters is great. If you have zero haters and everyone on the entire internet loves you and no one thinks you’re lying, that’s bad because you’re losing money. So always make sure you have haters, and make sure they talk about you often. I realize that sounds counter-intuitive, but as I’ve always said in regards to my business advice, the numbers don’t lie. Remember, you’re here to make money, just like I am. Let your angry, unfulfilled haters pound their desks and rage while you swim in their cash with a big smile on your face. It’s pure Alpha Male 2.0.

That’s about it. After this article I don’t need to talk about this again and we can get back to talking about techniques. For you new readers, and I know there are a lot of you, go to the desktop version of this site and hit the subscribe button in the upper right corner if you want real-world, proven woman and business techniques sent to you on a regular basis, plus four free ebooks. To the regular readers, I will now return to the regular how-to topics. Sorry about this diversion. This eventually had to be done, and I might as well get it over with now. I appreciate your patience.

131 Comments on “If You Think I’m A Liar…

  1. Really BD, REALLY??!

    Don’t you get it?

    It’s not about the lying part.

    His attack is about your delusional persona, its never match with the reality.

    “an immediate 19% spike in book sales and a similar increase in blog and mailing list subscriptions.”

    Good, I hope you enjoy those mediocrity sales/membership reinforcement.

    ***Who would buy/join on gossips/drama?? EXACTLY!***

  2. I can testify what BD teaches about online game and non-monogamous relationships with women works very efficiently.

    Before discovering BD I already was doing several non-monogamous relationships primarily based on online game. Reading BD helped me solidify what I was already doing correctly and I made big progress in non-monogamous relationship management : I highly recommend the Ultimate Open Relationships Manual if you have interest in non-monogamy. Especially the quantity of women drama in my life has virtually vanished to zero.

  3. I’ve read your books for years and follow a lot of your business and dating advice. I can safely say you’ve been the biggest influence in my adult life bar none. Yes, I’ve had doubts about how legit you are but quickly dismissed them for the reasons you mentioned and because what you have taught me has worked.

    In terms of having haters, silly question but in my alpha 2.0 business, I find this tough. My blog is pretty popular with older people. This might be why. Should I be actively trying be more controversial? Any tips?

  4. Churchill said something about how it’s a good thing to have enemies, it means you’ve stood up for something in your life.

    Nerds should be celebrating everywhere. Not everyone can play good looking loser game. Your audience looks way more like you than like me.

    The only reason the sugar baby thing bothers me is that if you have an ecosystem of FB‘s and MLTR‘s, you should never need to dip your toe into sugar dating. I’m personally going for a very long period of being an unrestricted free agent, and to give all that up is, to me, weird. If the price of an OLTR is a range of MLTR‘s & FB‘s, I just don’t get it, but that’s what I’ve come to.

    The problem isn’t sugar dating, it’s sugar dating when owning a Rolodex of MLTR‘s & FB‘s who are only going to get lonely, but unfortunately fatter, as time goes on.

  5. It’s also funny how it’s hard to link to that recent post of Krauser’s that certainly motivated BD to write this, because its URL contains a certain word (like cock but with u) which is on the stoplist of this blog for very understandable reasons (as people using it don’t tend to have anything meaningful to say apart from the ad hominem).

  6. You claim to not be a PUA, well, you posted since 2009 till around 2015 on pick up forums, giving pick up advice, debating (wrongfully) with those nigthgamer/nightgamersetc that you mention. No shit they confronted you when you popped up in every thread and had to give your opinion (which was not built upon field experience). You even came in with clearly absurd claims, such as “women would NEVER fuck on first dates”. Here is a friendly reminder that you have NEVER been very clear about not being a PUA.

    “So I’ve written mass quantities of content about this for an extremely long time. If I was lying about all of this, nine or ten years ago I would have been called out for all of my inconsistencies within just a few months”

    BUUUUT you did get called out right AWAY! Already back in 2009 all the way till the point where you decided to post on your own blog and stayed away from the public seduction/pick up debate. But when you were discussing on public forums you were called out many times and what we see now is just a continuation of it. Nothing has changed my man.

    If this post is meant to prove that you are not a liar, it really proves the opposite. From the get go have you been confronted. But you eventually did the smart thing to own a pick up forum, basically control the scene and ban EVERYONE who went against you.

    And you know very well that there are SOLID proofs to back up this, mr. Sauron.

    Feel free to moderate this message away, but you know at this point this will not help. Because Kharma is a bitch.

    I came here because I was looking forward to read your response to Krauser.

    -Teevster

     

  7. I think that Krauser guy didn’t judge you for not doing daygame (he mentioned it in the comment section) but he sure attacked you for not providing evidence that you sleep with women without paying money. In the end of the day showing evidence isn’t easy anyway, so there is that. He also said something about you marrying a 37 year old single mom, which in his eyes makes you a “cuck”. I guess this is the part where all you bloggers, PUA’s and business/dating coaches are assailable because each of you have a different pov when it comes to relationships, so I am not surprized at all abput this. To be honest, I wouldn’t even be surprized if this is all staged to increase both of your fanbases, bc after all I never knew about this guy until yesterday. lol

    From what I have seen and learned through reading various blogs and watching yt channels is that every blogger, coach or PUA looks for a niche and certain audience to sell his products, so they need to set themselves apart in order to be successful. PUA’s success rate is decreasing anyway so most PUA like to call themselves Dating & Life coaches now. And every single Coach has a hard fan base standing behind him. If you go to Corey Wayne, who teaches traditional relationship stuff then his fanbase will not accept anything coming from the BD fanbase. If you go to AMS, who is more about slaying as much as you can, you will also get into fights. So the only way to prove whether any of you guys is successful is by applying the things you teach.

    However BD, as for the showing pics part, what if you just scrapped the faces of the women and use fake names? In the end of the day people might still talk shit but you did your part and end of discussion.

  8. Hey BD.

    in a few articles, i might have a feeling you are “lying” but more likely you just didn’t explain enough

    There’s topic i was talking about to one of my friends and im not sure i did understand it enough

    I’m not sure how exactly you escalate things while having 1st date, make all sex tension/sex talk  etc.,(notice, im not shy or so, i might be kinda dick actually) and you leave in one hour. (it’s so quick)

    my few points/counter arguments (also i have to say, im not a new, i had plenty of girls, following ur style) :

    I wouldn’t bother going for a coffee for just an hour. I’d say it’s “rare” she (they) really want to meet, so why not have a longer plans? Obviously if she sucks, im fine leaving after 1st or 2nd beer .

    I don’t like losing that “dynamic” im building 1-2hours. I mean, We are getting closer, it’s getting sex.tension etc. Why i would just leave? I mean im kinda extremist in this way, cuz i usually have sex 1st date or simply NEVER. Makeout 1st date, great date, but 2nd never happens usually, so i just prefer sex or…well, sex or at least fun makeout/”try”.

    If i just have a lunch,coffee or something boring like that w her, it’s not “it”… she simply doesnt “feel it” so she wakes up other the w one of their 4109 moods and we never meet again.

    Long story short, for my character (or maybe knowledge) it just doesnt work to have a coffee during afternoon, sober, usually not really “private” place (in so many coffee places, literally next table can hear you) so… i can’t imagine how exactly you make that huge impression over (for me boring) 1hour coffee talk, no make out, that forces her to have a 2nd date with you. I’d be more than happy for post about it or just some tips.

    To be honest, i can’t remember when i had more dates. Usually i just fk at 1st date (obviously then keep her as FB) or never. Even 1st great date + make out also doesnt work (despite im not needy for a years, this really bothers me somehow, despite i have lot of sex etc., it’s just annoying once it looks im winning)

    It happened me already twice this year, that we (2 different girls) had a great first date, make out , but no sex, then other day she throw her phone away (or did when i asked for a 2nd date)….

    Some ideas?

  9. I’m completely neutral to this debate, although I’m more of a Krauser reader than your (I do daygame indeed, and I’m 43). Only thing, in the blog-post you refer about, Krauser never attacks you for supposedly being a liar. He says totally different things. Again, I’m not saying I necessarily agree with what Krauser says, but you made your whole point about something he barely mentioned. He’s not accusing you of being a liar, but about other stuff.

  10. great first date, make out , but no sex, then other day she throw her phone away

    BD has said a thousand times that kissing on the first date goes contrary to his system.

    Isn’t it all so very logical? Sex on the first date is very much possible, confirmed by multiple independent observations by sources that can’t all be lying. Sex after several dates, two or more, is also very much possible, as that’s how it happens the majority of the time. Now how to choose? The two-date model, when it works, is brilliant from time management standpoint. The same-day lay certainly requires a longer date for more comfort building, but maybe it avoids the risk of her flaking between dates.

    The only remaining thing is to go for some first-date sex and for some second-date sex and compare the probability of both working out! It’s that simple if you’re undecided.

  11. Haters.. Drama on Social Media..
    Business.. We bank on it..

    That’s funny, because I’m a TOH guy.. and while I disagree with the way you do a few things, the information I find extremely useful and entertaining. It helped me develop Excellent instincts!

  12. In terms of having haters, silly question but in my alpha 2.0 business, I find this tough. My blog is pretty popular with older people. This might be why. Should I be actively trying be more controversial?

    That’s a difficult question, since you don’t want to present yourself as something you’re not, yet if you’re not controversial at all you’re losing money. I would suggest start making more opinions on your blog you haven’t stated yet (if any, because you’re trying to be nice or appropriate) but that you still really have.

    You claim to not be a PUA, well, you posted since 2009 till around 2015 on pick up forums, giving pick up advice, debating (wrongfully) with those nigthgamer/nightgamersetc that you mention. No shit they confronted you when you popped up in every thread and had to give your opinion (which was not built upon field experience). You even came in with clearly absurd claims, such as “women would NEVER fuck on first dates”. Here is a friendly reminder that you have NEVER been very clear about not being a PUA.

    Teev, if you want to spend the rest of your life being upset about things I said literally 10 years ago on a forum that doesn’t even exist anymore, that’s awesome and you’re welcome to do so. Just make sure you keep talking about me a lot whenever you can. You’re doing a great job so far. Please keep it up.

    He also said something about you marrying a 37 year old single mom

    I didn’t marry a 37 year-old single mom. Pink Firefly doesn’t have any kids.

    This post is also not directed at Krauser specifically. I’ve had a few guys over the years come on this blog and get upset that I wasn’t posting pics. This post is directed at all of them, plus all the ones who come here in the future. From now on I can just link to this post.

    However BD, as for the showing pics part, what if you just scrapped the faces of the women and use fake names?

    That might satisfy you, but you’re not one of the guys upset about this. How would showing bodies but not faces help the guys who are upset I’m not posting pics? It wouldn’t.

    I wouldn’t bother going for a coffee for just an hour. I’d say it’s “rare” she (they) really want to meet, so why not have a longer plans?

    1. Because my system is based on having sex on the second meet with the minimum amount of time spent. Spending more time on the first date violates this objective.

    Having sex with women on the first date is doable but difficult. Having sex on the second date is much easier. Thus, you want the first date to be as short as possible. It’s a loophole in women’s ASD.

    But if you enjoy or prefer trying to having sex with women on the first date, please do. I know some men prefer that and that’s fine.

    2. Because if if you fail to fuck her, longer first dates means you’ve wasted more time.

    I mean im kinda extremist in this way, cuz i usually have sex 1st date or simply NEVER.

    That’s great. You should not use my system and use someone else’s.

    Krauser never attacks you for supposedly being a liar.

    1. Incorrect. He implied I was lying about having sex with attractive women in Portland (which I have). He implied I was lying about Pink Firefly being really attractive (which she is, as guys who get the Consultant Course will soon see). And a few other things I’m forgetting.

    2. This post is not directed at just him.

    Haters.. Drama on Social Media..
    Business.. We bank on it..

    Correct. I’ve already made several thousand dollars in new income over the last week, and I plan on making double this amount over the next 7 days from the increased traffic just from this post and thread. It will be a magnet for these guys. As you can see from some of them commenting above, they can’t help themselves.

    As I said, having guys who hate you or distrust you is a critical profit center. 🙂

  13. BD, twice in the last couple of days I posted something and the post didn’t appear. In the past, when this happened the post would appear a bit later, I take it some sort of manual moderation would take place. Nothing this time. Both posts contained links, one to your own blog, the other to that Krauser’s post (which, if not the main reason for this post, is definitely a big motivating factor). Have you made your moderation more strict?

  14. Have you made your moderation more strict?

    No. Haven’t changed anything. It’s because you’re posting in ways you haven’t before (posting links, using spammed-out keywords, and so on).

    And yeah, I don’t want links here to guys attacking me. That makes them money. I want their audience to post links to me. That way I get the money.

    Remember, stop thinking like an arguing internet commenter and start thinking like a businessman.

  15. Having sex with women on the first date is doable but difficult. Having sex on the second date is much easier. Thus, you want the first date to be as short as possible. It’s a loophole in women’s ASD.

    BD, but what about if she’s obviously DTF on the first date – not that this is what was planned but when it’s obvious that it can happen? (Of course, that often happens with a ONS, but that’s likely to be different dynamic from what’s being talked about here.)

  16. BD, but what about if she’s obviously DTF on the first date – not that this is what was planned but when it’s obvious that it can happen?

    If she’s DTF on the first date then go for it; I’ve said that many times.

    I’ve had sex on the first date many times because of DTF women. Just be aware this is going to be the unusual exception to the rule and not the norm.

  17. Wow! All I know is I’ve been reading and practicing pua advice since 2005. I’ve pretty much read everything and I’ve planted my ass right here. Online dating is easy. It has always given me the best results. In fact I can only think of one girl in 2 years that didn’t result in sex. BDs way of teaching is straight forward. Especially in these recent times of a gender war. Going up to strangers is awkward. Online they pick me. Sorry someone is trying to slander you BD. What you teach makes the most sense to me. Any idiot should see that.

  18. Dude I sometimes disagree with what you preach but you are the most mature, no-nonsense guy in the manosphere. That’s why I keep reading your blog. Keep it up and don’t pay attention to haters.

  19. Deleting responses that does not fit with your narrative. How low.

    So calling you out for lying, multiple times is a personal attack. No it is not. Grow up man, you are supposed to be the old one here.

    You know very well that silencing me will not work long term.

    -Teevster

  20. Also all comments, even the deleted ones, are screenshotted will be reposted elsewhere, and/or sendt to Krauser.

    I know you like to hide you shady online history, but you know very well that the skelletons will come out, eventually, one way or another.

    -Teevster

  21. Besides the posting pictures arguments I don’t think any of the stuff that dude said can be defended. It’s plain character assassination because you have gained a certain amount of respect from some of his followers even though you have done “shameful” things that amount to heresy in this community.

    Some of these things are getting married to an older single woman and adopting her mixed race kid when you were still a beta, paying sugar babies, and marrying a “post wall” woman that is allowed to fuck other men. The last one is probably the most difficult to comprehend. Some of these guys think that a post wall woman with no kids is probably mentally ill, let alone suitable for a long term relationship.

    So it’s understandable that being happy while doing these things, and making money on top of it would ruffle a few feathers. It’s gonna be interesting what happens when a picture of PF eventually surfaces. Assuming most guys think she is attractive, I don’t see why you would be attacked, but you never know.

     

  22. Sorry someone is trying to slander you BD.

    I’m not. I wish it would happen more often. But thanks for the kind words.

    So calling you out for lying, multiple times is a personal attack.

    No, calling me names is a personal attack, thus not allowed here. Saying I’m lying is just an inaccurate statement. Those are allowed.

    You know very well that silencing me will not work long term.

    Oh, Teev, you’re not getting it. I want you to comment more. If you call me names I’ll have to delete those comments to keep consistent with the rules here, but beyond that, by all means, please keep commenting here as much as you can.

    Keep talking about shit I said on forums years ago and how I’m lying to everyone and how no one should listen to me and how I have skeletons and stuff. Go, baby, go!

    Hey Teev… ONLINE DATING IS FUCKING AWESOME, GETS YOU LAID, IS SUPER EFFICIENT, AND EVERYONE SHOULD DO IT. Howdya like that?

    Also all comments, even the deleted ones, are screenshotted will be reposted elsewhere, and/or sendt to Krauser.

    Yes, now you’re getting it. Screenshot everything you can here and send it to as many websites as you can, Krauser included.

    Oh, here’s another one: I MAKE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS A MONTH SELLING DATING EBOOKS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH COLD APPROACH. IT’S AWESOME AND MAKES ME REALLY HAPPY.

    I’m counting on you, Teev. Don’t let me down!

  23. Some of these things are getting married to an older single woman and adopting her mixed race kid when you were still a beta

    Indeed. The fact I was a stupid, pathetic beta male 25 years ago is a core and key part of my story and of my marketing. This way I can contrast what I’ve done since then with the man I used to be. By pointing out how bad I used to be, these guys are doing fantastic things for both my branding and my marketing.

    marrying a “post wall” woman that is allowed to fuck other men. The last one is probably the most difficult to comprehend. Some of these guys think that a post wall woman with no kids is probably mentally ill, let alone suitable for a long term relationship.

    Yes, all you have to do is watch the relationships these men end up having and compare them to the ones I have.

    So it’s understandable that being happy while doing these things, and making money on top of it would ruffle a few feathers.

    That’s fine as long as valid points are made. So far I haven’t seen any. I don’t see any these guys calmly saying, “BD, I disagree with you regarding <very specific point that quotes me accurately>. I think that’s wrong because <logical point 1>, <logical point 2>, and <logical point 3>.” Instead I’ve just seen general opinions, entertaining name-calling without any specific facts to back things up, and emotional rants.

    Which again, is fine. I need these haters to help me spread the good word.

    It’s gonna be interesting what happens when a picture of PF eventually surfaces. Assuming most guys think she is attractive, I don’t see why you would be attacked, but you never know.

    I know exactly what will happen: 90-95% of guys who say anything will be positive to some degree, saying that she’s attractive or at least something like “attractive but not my type,” and the 5% of guys who already dislike me will say she’s hideous.

    Human behavior is very predictable.

  24. It is  very sad I am disgusted with the seduction community, is everybody bashing and attacking everybody all over the place. Now is not even outsiders or puahaters that don’t understand, is the teachers authorities bashing each other like little bitches….

    I don’t give a shit if bd is a virgin dating a troll…. The only thing i care can I benefit from some or even any of his advice or not…. Period end of story…

    I bought 3 books of bd.- one on seduction (the 3 hour date stuff) soon i realized that it was things i already knew and my cold approach seduction skills were superior (and bd was nice enough to exchange)

    His online book was good, tough i found my own way to implement my own online stuff, some of it made a huge impact such as the openers and the qualifying questions…. lets say 20% that is just good enough for me to be grateful…

    Most of his blogs are very entertaining and though i don’t agree with everything is free and good intentions… And you are allow to disagree and state your opinion.

    Bd has also help indirectly (for example help me with nwp i forgot the name he used to use here) to get rid of m/w complex along with teevester.

    The dude gave us a free forum, and posted all the archives of masf.

    Again my criteria is can the advice given once i field test help me or not, if bd is a basemen dweller dating trolls i can care less…

    With that being said Blackdragon the main problem you have with guys cold approaching is that when you used to post in forums there was a lot of reframing and posturing and a bit of generalizing  (you did stop doing it for the last 3-5 years) but you did it, i remember specifically you taking a shot at nightgame and how you thought it was a useless waste of time subcommunication…. In fairness you totally apologized but remember a lot of these guys have some type of blackdragon trauma…. Second problem is you said a lot of the stuff we do can not be done… Sleeping fast with over 33, first meet fast sex and the likes… After playing with online i get were all of those theories come from (and it does apply a bit more to the traditional online world okkupid,pof, match)

    I read Krauser article, and i was like, uhmmm bd has said he was a beta and he made fun and ridicule himself about his past,he even said his ex wife balloom and looks like shit now (typically with exes this is common)…. I did not understand why he was going after your past, most puas were and still are betas or overcompensating alphas that go back to beta…

    I remember you used to say “why bother bashing people that are trying to help other people get better with women”….

     

  25. He-whose-name-you-shall-not-say-to-not-drive-more-traffic-to-his-site’s criticism of BD’s past is beyond ludicrous. That’s like criticizing a fitness blogger who went from obese to bodybuilder (and is teaching others to do it) for being a fat, lazy slob.

    I didn’t really know this guy, but checked his site and it seems like he is trying to tick off all the checkmarks of an angry, basement-dwelling MGTOW. What’s with the racism, conspiracy theories etc… What’s the point? I’m not even saying he is a fraud. If he’s for real, he is a great example of how you can bed many attractive women and still lead a crappy, unhappy life. The anger really shows through his writings.

    And then I found this gem

    If I do make a conversion to Christianity, I’ll be withdrawing my key pick-up products from the market, so if you want *******, 2019 is the time to buy them.

    Talk about incongruency. Going from PUA to monogamously married is one thing, but this is taking it to a whole new level. He is basically implying that his material is morally bad, but since he is not yet a good Christian, you may still use it – what the fuck?! And this guy talks about being delusional…

  26. I’m just gonna quote it another time for lmao value

    If I do make a conversion to Christianity, I’ll be withdrawing my key pick-up products from the market, so if you want *******, 2019 is the time to buy them.

  27. It is a rather important detail that the single mother ‘mudshark’ that BD married over 20 years ago, BEFORE HE WAS RED PILL, is not the same person as his new bride, Pink Firefly.

    I mean, the whole point is how far BD progressed after being a beta who married a single mother older than him, back in the day.

    When Krauser got this wrong and conflated the two, he immediately lost credibility.

    Krauser himself claims that he was married to a perfect 10 when he was a beta.  That is either a total lie, or means he was an extreme natural, and thus is not capable of teaching other men.  I mean, does he know what a beta even is??? He apparently thinks a man’s skill with women is governed by his natural talent level BEFORE discovering Game, which of course undermines his very premise as a seller of products.

     

     

  28. That might satisfy you,but you’re not one of the guys upset about this. How would showing bodies but not faces help the guys who areupsetI’m not posting pics? It wouldn’t.

    Yeah, I see.

    I’ll be honest with you though, I have always appreciated that you openly talk about using prostitutes at times and even suggar daddy game. However it always got me thinking that this is a perfect way to shut down anyone’s request on you to post pics or videos of the girls you fuck bc as you said they would always claim you hired hookers or payed girls to have sex with you, no matter what you did. So I was asking myself whether you actually claimed to fuck hookers and be a suggar daddy on purpose so you didn’t have to make those pics (aside from the whole suing thing issue).  Don’t take this as an attack or something but it would be a smart move on your side since you are not a PUA anyway.

  29. If I do make a conversion to Christianity, I’ll be withdrawing my key pick-up products from the market, so if you want *******, 2019 is the time to buy them.

    Talk about incongruency. Going from PUA to monogamously married is one thing, but this is taking it to a whole new level. He is basically implying that his material is morally bad, but since he is not yet a good Christian, you may still use it – what the fuck?! And this guy talks about being delusional…

    He’s following the standard model; bang a bunch of girls with no plan with what to do afterwards, then feel guilty about it, then become a right-winger or Christian, then get traditionally married, then get divorced, lose your money and your kids, then get angry all over again.

    Roosh is going though this as well, telling guys on his blog to give themselves to God and so forth. A lot of guys do this.

    That is what happens when you have no Mission, long-term plan, or self awareness.

    I have always appreciated that you openly talk about using prostitutes at times and even suggar daddy game.

    I don’t fuck prostitutes. Just sugar babies and normal FBs. But I get your meaning.

    However it always got me thinking that this is a perfect way to shut down anyone’s request on you to post pics or videos of the girls you fuck bc as you said they would always claim you hired hookers or payed girls to have sex with you, no matter what you did.

    I learned a very long time ago from studying other public figures (such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, Tom Leykis, Jessie Ventura, and a few others) that when you live a controversial lifestyle, the best move, as scary as it is, is to come clean and tell everybody everything about what you’re doing or have done in the past, no matter how inappropriate or embarrassing it is or was. That way no one can A) attack you for potentially doing those things (because you already did them and are talking about it openly) or B) threaten to find dirt on you or “out” you about something (because you already outed yourself).

    It’s very freeing. I’m glad I did it, and I will continue to tell everyone everything. I’m outcome independent and don’t give a shit anyway.

    So I was asking myself whether you actually claimed to fuck hookers and be a suggar daddy on purpose so you didn’t have to make those pics (aside from the whole suing thing issue).  Don’t take this as an attack or something but it would be a smart move on your side since you are not a PUA anyway.

    Not specifically for that reason since I never give the “photos” thing any thought. I did it for more the more global reasons above; it can’t be used against me if I already told everyone I’m doing it. (And as a side benefit I wasn’t planning on, it makes guys trying to say I’m lying look extra stupid.)

  30. Don’t worry about the haters dude.  I’ve trolled some people while drunk and bored in the past just for the hell of it.  I doubt any of these guys are as concerned as they sound in text.  That being said:

     

    My own best friends exaggerate how hot their notches are, so I take everything I read online with a grain of salt, while still appreciating the content.  I personally read sites like this because of my interest in psychological and cultural decline in societies lol.

  31. Does this include PF or will we see a photo or video of her at some point? I thought you were considering a video some time ago. I don’t care about whatever the haters will say, I’m just curious. I suspect she’ll fall into “yes she’s hot but not my type” zone as you said, since I like big curves but not skinny bodies (hottest chicks in my book tend to be 125-145 lbs, not 100), with some exceptions.

  32. I don’t even think posting pics of girls you’ve had sex with would even add to credibility. I’ve seen photos of girls popular PUAs have banged and quite frankly, they’re never as hot as they claim (at least in my eyes). A perfect 10 is so completely subjective to everyone. Your system has helped me bang my perfect 10’s for about 7 years now and I’d prefer to imagine you’re doing the same. Your system works – that’s all that matters. Most PUAs are just a bunch of dweebs spewing psychobable to losers who think it will work – getting laid by “10’s” over and over requires so much more, pretty much all the stuff you preach day in, day out. The guys who get hot chicks all the time embody more or less the stuff on your site, not PUA crap. Even then, even a good looking PUA with terrible game will get laid by a “10” every so often.

  33. Cold approach is so 90s. After I have them locked in (from online dating) I actually asked the girls if they like to be approached by strangers or online? Every single one told me online. They get to swipe or message you back. Even if you pick them first they pick you back. Ive been to Krauser’s site before I even found this one, well after Richard and love systems, chase, ect..nothing really clicked except here. Call me a sucker, fine I’ve been through the fucking trenches like BD getting divorced raped (my ex was the one who cheated on me) I was a faithful, blind dumbass only 32 years old at the time. Its people like Rollo and Black Dragon that opened my eyes. If I found Black Dragon before I met the mother of my kids and we established and open relationship from the start, I wouldn’t be in the mess I am. Krauser doesn’t have a family or kids. I dont see Krauser invited to the 21 convention or any real life changing shit. Let the haters hate. If Krauser was really alpha he wouldn’t give 2 shits what BD is doing. Krauser to me seems weak just because of this. Just saying

  34. asked the girls if they like to be approached by strangers or online?

    Look, you are putting the picture in their head of some weirdo approaching.

    Instead, ask “If you meet a handsome man, held eye contact, and smiled, would you at least be slightly disappointed he didn’t approach you?” Different vibe, eh?

    Looks are king in meat space. Day game is 90’s because men who don’t get IOI’s know better than try to approach. They should thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster for online dating.

  35. I went ahead and googled the person in question who wrote the recent article against BD.

    Much ado about nothing.

    Not really a coherent argument there, just a lot of conjecture.   THIS is why many of us choose to read and follow BD’s system of things rather than whomever this daygame superstar thinks he is.    I can’t think of a time that BD has personally attacked another person in the community in such a way.

    And, think about how stupid it is of them to personally attack another person’s appearance when they have no idea what their audience looks like.

    Even if this Krauser dude is good looking, or having success with women, what does that have to do with building a system that works for different types of men?

    Not everyone wants to walk up to women in the street.  I certainly don’t.  I can do it fine, but most of the time when I’m out I’m doing something and need to get from “A” to “B”.

    And, who gives a fuck what Pink Firefly looks like?

    It’s a system about making men happy with minimal effort.    For you guys that want to put in more effort, go for it.

    His system either works for you or it doesn’t.

    If you want to come and debate certain points, please do, but you look like a bunch of petulant children when you run over here and can’t even seem to stick to a single, coherent criticism or point beyond “BD posted some things in the past that I don’t like, so he is a bad guy”.

    And, what’s this crap about not having non-monogamy around children?

    Certainly, some marriages work, but many of us grew up without two parents, or many grew up with parents who were NOT compatible, and we are talking about a lot of people here.

    Even with the super high divorce rate, I guess everyone should subject their kids to the joys of troubled divorces instead?

    Really floored from the stupidity from this “rival” site.

    May they ascend to heaven and meet their Christ while we are having fun and teaching children how to live in the “real” world.

  36. Well I am happy that you are making money, because this is what the community was all about for you from the first place wasn’t it?  From day 1 you framed yourself as some guru flaming every many experienced seducers, despite you being a clear rookie.

    No matter the cost, you would be happy as long as it got you money. Well I am truly happy for you.

    I am not seeing pick up as a means to make money, nor would I ever want to work full-time in this industry.

    For me it was all about the community, all about getting the best girls and discovering the best techs. This has not changed a bit. If you are happy making through dishonesty, then good for you. Most men are dumb and you take advantage of that by giving them your circular arguments, and your intern-consistent frame-work which does not match the real world (although some of the things you mention do – obviously).

    I do not care much about your online game stuff much anymore frankly, because everybody knows that the quality you will meet online is below what you will get in real life. But you have stated before that you cared little about quality, nor the means (hence why you seem to be into prostitution now) many times – and hey if that’s your thing go for it.  There is a reason why Blackdragon method has been labelled “mediocrity game”. But hey there is probably a market for that too. Congratulation for making money out of selling mediocrity.

    This is not my concern, my concern is you framing yourself as truth-worthy and consistent person here. You state yourself that over the years you have been consistent and been truthful. It is in light of this that it is right of me out point out your history (which you do not seem to disagree with). Some of it is all, from 10 years ago, but as I have mentioned, it also includes many more recent events.

    You are right that attention (including negative) brings you traffic and may get you a slight bump in income due to exposure. But we both know that negative attention has a negative long term impact, and considering your behaviour you know that at some point, shit will hit the fans – eventually,

    Anyway, I made my point. Your post states that you have not lied and stayed consistent over the years. IT IS CLEAR THAT IT HAS NOT BEEN THE CASE.

    I will stay tuned to read Krauser’s response and grab the popcorn. I have made my point clear and you see to not have responded to it, other than the fact that you are happy for it.

    PS: I see nothing wrong with adopting a kid fatherless kid (and him being half black is of course not a concern either) and I actually find it to be a good thing. Maybe there is some goodness in you after all.

  37. “Not really a coherent argument there, just a lot of conjecture.   THIS is why many of us choose to read and follow BD’s system of things rather than whomever this daygame superstar thinks he is.    I can’t think of a time that BD has personally attacked another person in the community in such a way”

    Fringe.

    You apparently have not followed his posting history from 2008 till 2015 😛

     

  38. And, who gives a fuck what Pink Firefly looks like?

    Indeed.  If BD’s systems can help ME, and the price is reasonable, why on Earth would I possibly care whether the woman he is married to is a 9 or 8 or 7 or 6?  I’ll never meet them in person, so what do I care?

    That grown men still get derailed by these tangents, is ridiculous.  Don’t they have better things to do with their time?

    Plenty of PUAs who *have* posted pictures of themselves making out with hot chicks have non-duplicatible advantages, such as being a bartender, being in a well-known band, being a bouncer at a Las Vegas strip club, etc. that mean these photographs are not on account of any Game skill that is transferrable to other men.  Plus, a Mystery-style ‘club makeout’ that may lead to photos that impress the inexperienced, is far from an actual lay, as experienced men actually know.

     

     

  39. Teevster, what is relevant about his posting history from a long time ago?

    Are people not allowed to evolve?

    What is it that is so superior about your system vs what BD teaches?

    It’s worked great for me and I’ve read guys like Krauser and others (for years) and have came no where close to the value I’ve gleaned from BD.

    And, he is working with a bigger market.   “Most” men.

    Not all men are extroverts.   Even forced ones, are more rare than not.   You don’t seem to have a good understanding of the market.

  40. From an outside perspective teevester you care way to much… calm yourself down really..don’t you have a girl to fuck since Krauser taught you everything? You sound dumb to a 37 year old who has be threw some shit. Your making Krauser look bad

  41. I do not care much about your online game stuff much anymore frankly, because everybody knows that the quality you will meet online is below what you will get in real life.

    Weasel words. You only need so many leads to have sex with someone, and if you only open attractive women, that someone will be attractive. You can’t fuck one woman in a thousand? Work on your game! Your city doesn’t have a thousand attractive women? Move to a decently sized city! As simple as that.

    But you have stated before that you cared little about quality, nor the means (hence why you seem to be into prostitution now) many times – and hey if that’s your thing go for it.

    Now you’re contradicting yourself, as sugar babies are by definition way above average in looks.

    This is not my concern, my concern is you framing yourself as truth-worthy and consistent person here. You state yourself that over the years you have been consistent and been truthful. It is in light of this that it is right of me out point out your history (which you do not seem to disagree with).

    On a more serious note, do let us know where BD deceived anyone. It’s very important to know to what extent someone can be trusted. Do you have access to the mASF archives? You should be able to provide quotes.

    Finally, Teevster, whose relationship management strategy would you recommend over BD’s?

  42. @BD

    I have been advised by several different attorneys that because of my status of being a high-income American businessman and public figure living in America and having sex with large numbers of American women that I would be at great risk of lawsuits if I started showing you pictures or videos of the women I’ve had sex with now or in the past. And yes, this includes the option of showing a picture of an American woman, pronouncing to the entire world that I’ve fucked her, and putting a little black bar over her eyes. She could still easily make things legal if she wanted, and would be encouraged by modern-day #MeToo society to do so.
     
    Moreover, some of you non-Americans guys don’t seem to understand what the word “lawsuit” means in an American context. It is perfectly legal for me to put pictures of women I’ve been with on my web sites. That isn’t the problem. The problem is that lawsuits have absolutely nothing to do with breaking the law. In the USA, I can sue you for any reason I want even if you clearly haven’t broken any laws. Even if I lose and you “win,” and even if you never actually have to go to court, you still have to pay thousands of dollars in legal fees. It’s ridiculous and unfair, and perhaps now you see the problem (and yet another reason why I’m soon moving out of this insane country).

     
    I know absolutely nothing about laws. This is a genuine question. And I am not suggesting that you should do that. Nor I am suggesting that this would make any sense or be of any benefit for you to do that. I am interested to know your purely hypothetical opinion on this because this is something I may consider doing in a website or forum for instance and I trust your judgement about this type of stuffs.
     
    What risks, both legal and purely private, do you believe it would be for me (assuming I live a very similar situation as you do) to write a post with a link to whatever social media (youtube, instagram, tumblr, tweeter, facebook, etc…) of some women I had sex with and say : “I have seen this woman in person.” And provide no context whatsoever. Not post any picture on the site. Just the link and something so general that it could just mean that I have seen her once across the street. Maybe even just “I once saw this woman in real life”. Maybe even “I think, maybe, I once saw this woman in real life.” Maybe push even further the deniability and add : “I am not sure, maybe I didn’t see very well or my memory is incorrect”.
     
    Not state whether or not she is a purely platonic friend or if I actually had sex with her “a friend with benefits”.
     
    Not state anything like “relationship”, FB, MLTR, OLTR, nothing at all.
     
    Same question, same thing, but this time a bit more context. “This woman is/was a friend”. And nothing more at all in term of context. Just a link, still no picture posted on the site/forum.
     
    (this is a reworded version of an out of topic comment I made in a previous post, I believe it’s somehow on topic this time)

  43. Hey Teevster! Read this!

    YOU CAN FUCK REALLY HOT GIRLS USING NOTHING BUT ONLINE DATING. AND I HAVE. SO HAVE MANY OF MY READERS

    And this…

    THE MEN WHO READ MY CONTENT ARE THE MOST RATIONAL AND FACT-BASED IN THE ENTIRE MANOSPHERE AND PICK-UP WORLD.

    Oh, and this…

    MONOGAMY SUCKS. IT’S ONLY FOR GUYS WHO DON’T MIND DRAMA (OR LIKE DRAMA).

    What do you think about that, Teev??? Give me your thoughts!

  44. If Krauser was really alpha he wouldn’t give 2 shits what BD is doing. Krauser to me seems weak just because of this. Just saying

    Indeed.  To care about what someone eight time zones away is doing, is absurd.

    If the premise is that BD is Krauser’s competitor in a business sense, then Krauser has no clue about the concept of an addressable market.  A billion men in developed and near-developed countries, and Krauser is fighting to steer some of the few thousand who frequent either of these two blogs towards him.

    The second reason Krauser is mad is because BD isn’t interested in White Trashionalism.  It would seem odd for a PUA of any success level to be drawn towards the most incel-heavy ideology on Earth, but such as it is, Krauser can’t stand a PUA who isn’t a White Trashionalist.

     

  45. BD have you updated your work at all?  I just wonder if your advice and techniques made even 2 years ago still applies to the current online dating landscape

  46. Most PUAs give you a nice shiny sporty steering wheel and tell you attach it to any car and drive wherever you want, if you want go straight to the cliff. That’s all they have, because that’s all they know themselves.

    BD gives you an entire car that moves smoothly to the right direction and never breaks down.

    I do not care much about your online game stuff much anymore frankly, because everybody knows that the quality you will meet online is below what you will get in real life.

    Oh really? Because going to Eastern Europe to get the hottest chicks around(but hitting mediocre women yourself) is quality. Like there are no cute/hot women anywhere else on earth. There are plenty of cute women online all you have to do is put in the numbers.

    And frankly if you love drama with women go for the Eastern European ones, you’ll get “quality” relationship. As I’ve said above your idols give us a good skill set but that’s all they have. They have no clue how to do relationship management and how to keep women for the long run. BDs stuff work like a charm. If you want short term stuff or ONSs then by all means go for those BS like a teenager. It’s not like we have nothing else to do but hitting women day in day out just to prove our “dick is bigger than yours”, then get oneitis for one and shut off everything else in our life.

  47. Yes yuliack, blackdragon updated his book just recently. I waited 3 months for the updated young girl manual, and his online dating manual to be up dated before I bought it. There is good advice in there. If you haven’t read it your missing out. I think he is working on updating his other books soon. I’ve read everything Richard has written and love systems has put out and Jason capital bs, Ross bs. I get it..it takes balls to cold approach. I’ve done it many times and have some success and a lot of fails. Krauser is a heavyweight when it comes to pickup. Great. But to talk shit about another man, to me that is some petty ass shit I lost all respect. That is insecure girl fighting bs really. Krauser, I can tell you are a serious, successful man. Why do you really give a fuck?? And Teevster, why do u want to ride Krauser’s cock so bad? I also think it’s bs that he called out other upcoming pua who are putting in the hours. Sorry, this just seems like something my ex wife would do imo

  48. Talk about incongruency. Going from PUA to monogamously married is one thing, but this is taking it to a whole new level. He is basically implying that his material is morally bad, but since he is not yet a good Christian, you may still use it – what the fuck?! And this guy talks about being delusional…

    It’s just a childish scene..  great when your in your 20’s or early 30’s but as you get older it’s socially unacceptable to be out trying to cold approach women, especially younger women, in public during the day..  no one wants to be the old guy (doesn’t matter how good looking or young looking you think you are you’re still old) creeping on women at the gym, coffee shop, and etc… shit I know absolute studs in their early 30’s who know better than to keep doing this..  now picking up women who give you a warm smile or seems open is different..  or just making conversation in a normal human way that leads to a date is also different.. but cold approaching in the middle of the day, when you should be at work or doing adult shit, to Same day sex when you’re in 40’s?  Weird, creepy, annoying, rappy, and socially unacceptable..  btw if you’re your older and don’t know this you should..   they know this so they convert to Islam, Christianity, get married, have kids, and etc.. as their exit to adulthood..  which is why their sites progress from pickup, to dick growing videos, to supplements to them nothing new…

    bds shit works long term..  his shit is perfect for guys with busy lives, kids, daytime jobs, their own place instead of mom’s basement, and are already adults..  there are guys in their 60’s reading and following his blog and happy as a pig in shit with his advice..  you can use at least one of his methods until you die to get laid..  so no need for him to convert to Hinduism as a backdoor escape from his blog to adulthood.

  49. I see this as a coming of age story..  you have some basement dwellers coming to the realization that their shit has a life  expectancy and unfortunately BD beat them to a blog for getting laid Into a adulthood and now their left with converting to Christianity just so they can exit with dignity..  I get the anger..

  50. I bought a couple of Blackdragon’s books just as I was getting into dating after ending a 20-year marriage. Prior to marriage, I had never been monogamous or interested in having a girlfriend; yet during my marriage I was completely monogamous (and happily so for the most part). I wanted to read his views on dating and open relationships, as it seemed to chime with the way I naturally leaned and I wanted to develop a positive strategy.

    I have to say, his advice was excellent. I have followed his advice on keeping the first date short, kino and going for sex on the second date. And I have to say I had even more success than I expected or he implied. From the very start, I was sleeping with 3 to 4 women a week and had to make some quick choices about how to dial it all back to regain control of my time.

    His relationship management advice is good too. Not entirely suited to my personality perhaps (I do love a bit of drama!) but when I have tried it with girls of a lower-drama personality, it has worked perfectly.

    Also, his advice on avoiding jealousy in non-monogamous relationships is very healthy. I have found that the vast majority of women (and my age range is 30-45) accept it when they realise it comes naturally to me. I don’t want to live with or marry a woman and I am perfectly happy for the women I am with to sleep with other men. They also say that they love my attitude, as I am not jealous and controlling, so they like me more. It allows my relationships to last longer.

    More than rules or guidelines, he is giving us the benefit of his experience. One man’s experience. It works for him and has worked for me, but it is up to his readers to decide whether they reject or adapt it. I personally am very grateful for his insights, which I have adapted to my own cultural and personal situation.

    Perhaps it comes down to personality types. I am no good at night game, unless it is a venue where you can talk and mingle easily with quiet music. So online dating and social circle game are my strengths, and Blackdragon gives good advice on these.

     

    As far as the non-monogamy and the business insights go: I have been self-employed for most of my life. I have many customers and if I lose one or two, it is a short-term annoyance, but I am fine as I have not lost everything. Marriage or monogamy are like having a permanent full-time job: if you lose your job, you have lost everything and may leap into something suboptimal. And just as most people cannot handle being self-employed because it seems more insecure, most people want that one intense girlfriend/wife relationship.

     

  51. I also confirm that BD’s advice and dating methods for online game (or “game) have given me the best results over time.

    Whenever I try online gaming from other manosphere guys, the results are usually weak, whereas BD has a straightforward system that isn’t very “gamey”, but it works.

    Teevster, I really don’t give a shit what BD posted TEN years ago.

    When I see these PUAs bragging, who then post screenshots of needy texts to hook some HB7, it really discredits this whole “quality” argument for me.  I wouldn’t have even bothered to swipe right on a lot of these girls, let alone give them a second glance while daygaming.

    I’ve been following BD for about 5 years, which is enough for me to disagree with some of his advice.  Regardless, this is still the first blog I recommend to my personal friends that are interested open relationships, and dating in general.  NOT for daygaming/nightgaming.

  52. Amazing that you wrote this article right when I was starting to have doubts. The only reason I had a slight doubt was because in your ebook you mentioned that you rarely do club game. But everything you say is on point, before I couldn’t understand the difference between seduction phase (which I was good at) and relationship management phase. From personal experiences after discovering this site, I can say that your material is legit and will continue to follow.

  53. 95% of you guys here should kiss BD’s ass. Because without him you would be just afc , needy jealous betaboys, reading some pua bullshit, being alpha male 0.5 if lucky.

    In best case, you would end up, like typical pua, burned out, after fcking many girls, find “she’s different ™” and hop into disney.

    Some of you are even worse still. So shooosh girls, and listen to him or just don’t interrupt us, who actually follow him.

    (personally i switched from serial monogamist to his system, in last 4y i had literally zero drama, best and lot of girls, prob. had best times of my life) … so it’s you guys, just being stupid and not listening, trying to “break” his system with some sweet pro-disney (talk a lot, spice things up etc.) arguments.

     

    Good fking luck hating BD…. If i would be you, I’d rather just hit my head on concrete.

  54. There’s both haters and ass kissers in here but I’ll put in my two cents.  I mostly nightgame, and so on that end, BD has not helped me a lot.  However, BD has helped me immensely on maintaining FB‘s and MLTR‘s so much so, that game isn’t needed very often.  Of course this will be thought of as boring to some of the guys who like to bang as many women as possible, but I’m perfectly happy with multiple year relationships that last and I prefer that over constantly sarging for new women.

    BD’s system allows me less stress, more free time, and long-lasting relationships.  At the same time, I have a rotation, so I have a regular stream of women for variety.

    It isn’t for the guys who want to be flashy and appear to be a player.  Although these methods can work for them too, but it’s more for goal-oriented, focused men.

    And you can pick and choose some of his advice that works for you and what doesn’t.  You must stick to his cardinal rules, but things like TRT and botox, etc, that I don’t agree with can be ignored while still gaining much success with the rest of his material.

  55. Hollywood : i feel you, i also strongly dont agree with having dates over coffee etc. But im not here to fight over it, why it sucks (for me personally)

    Im mostly (i’d say 95% or more nightgamer also), but yeah you get the point, BD gave us some management…I dont do (usually) ONS, because im so lazy, i prefer just 2-3 fbs than novelty/numbers.

    That was that missing tile for so many PUAs why they went crazy. They thought women are #1.

  56. BD have you updated your work at all?

    I updated just about everything in the last 1-2 years.

     I just wonder if your advice and techniques made even 2 years ago still applies to the current online dating landscape

    No major changes to anything in the last 2 years.

    My online dating book will require regular updates about once every 3-5 years though. (The other books are much more evergreen.)

  57. Interesting comments here.

    Over the last 25 years of my life, I’ve read hundreds upon hundreds of books, listened to hundreds of audio programs, attended hundreds of seminars, and so on (in addition to articles, podcasts, etc).

    Whenever I consume a piece of content, I ask, “Will this help me?” and “How can this help me?”

    Almost always the answer is yes, and I can find at least one or two things (usually more) that I can implement, and at least one of those things (usually more) will indeed help me.

    What I don’t do is get upset that I didn’t agree with 100% of everything the author said. That would be stupid. For example, the odds of you reading a 300+ page book on business or lifestyle or whatever and you agreeing with literally 100% of everything the guy writes in there there is low. It’s possible, and I’ve had that experience too, but it’s not likely, which is fine.

    Your goal is to take what you can from the content you consume and put it into practice to improve your life. If you disagree or even hate a few of the items the author writes, that’s great. Even within the content of my all-time mentors who I recommend to everyone (guys like Brian Tracy, Robert Ringer, etc) there are a few things in their books I completely and utterly disagree with. Again, that’s fine. The stuff that did work worked enough to the point where I don’t care about disagreement on the details.

    As always, the goal of life is long-term happiness. If you seek that, you’ll find it. If instead you seek reasons to be angry or upset at people, you’ll find that too. It’s all about what your priorities are. And when you see someone write something on the internet, be it a blog post or comments on a blog or forum, it’s easy to see which of those two priories that person has.

    Which is fine too.

  58. Blackdragon, I would love to give my thoughs on online gaming as well as monogamy. However I fail to understand why you want to discuss this with me here. Have had the opportunity to do so for many years on all the pick up artist forums you have been have on (mASF and sedfast), including one what you own and have run,  but you have refrained from doing so, instead you positioned yourself as a guru on a pick up forum and trolled mostly everybody, and those responded got banned (or worse).

    Oh that much for the honesty  – claiming to be a non-pua, while being a so-called guru on a pick up forum.

    I also fail to see why you bring up monogamy. I am not even monogamous. This is getting weird. And as stated, I do care very little about your online game and I will leave it at that.

    I WAS HERE ONLY TO CRITICIZE YOUR CLAIM OF YOU BEING HONEST AND CONSISTENT OVER THE YEARS. It is clear that this is not true. You are welcome to switch the topic into a monogamy debate, with someone who clearly is not monogamous.

    For those wondering why I care, I will only mention that things between me and BD have escalated seriously in the past, all the way from banning me from a forum while using my material to drive traffic to his forum. To add to the mix he also made up a story about me threatening him with lawsuits as his excuse to ban me, damaging my reputation – a fake rumor that still lives to this day.

    Thank you for your understanding,

    Teevster

  59. @x

    Hollywood : i feel you, i also strongly dont agree with having dates over coffee etc. But im not here to fight over it, why it sucks (for me personally)

    Interesting since we seem to be in similar ways, I find the coffee dates to be pure gold.  I offer a ‘drink’ and the ones who say “I don’t drink” get a coffee date, those that do, get a quiet pub.  Those that balk at the date offered get nexted.  I don’t do online dates often and that’s the only time I go on an actual date, but when I do, the ‘drink’ and ‘less than an hour’ which I actually communicate in advance work well.  They typically do not feel pressured with this.

    I’m very interested to know why it doesn’t work for you and what you prefer, X.

  60. This shows some serious work ethic and disciplined despite the topic.

    Also I forgot about haters being a good thing. Makes me feel better about my current sales job where the company has some bad press

  61. I’m very interested to know why it doesn’t work for you and what you prefer, X.

    Doesn’t work for me either.  depends on the age though.  Women over 30 view pubs, clubs, and even bars in restaurants as a place they’ve gone in the past to meet someone to hook up with or just before hooking up.  So they’re already a little more open to the idea based upon that.  Works best for 1st date sex.  I can get closer to them by sitting at the bar, then escalate with flirting and touching to the point where we are making out at the bar.  Usually within the first half an hour if I do things correctly.  Then get them in the same car by changing venue to another bar which leads to car sex in a park or a hotel.  Works about 50% of the time for me.  But, that being said my issue is not time per date but the amount of days per week I have available so i work to avoid that second date on another night.  Anyways the whole process of getting to sex on date 1 is harder to do from a coffee shop.  So I avoid them.

  62. The Manosphere/Self-Improvment arena looks like a circlejerk around the campfire now.

    BD’s recieves hate because he shows men the bigger picture – How To Tanscend These two Cespools.

    Watch his 21 convention video on YouTube – 19 mins of Pure Gold that.

    *Mikedrop*

  63. You’re right; the haters just drum up business.

    It’s easy to get heated (or troll-bait or whatever) when you have a public persona and get attacked by nutjobs, but ultimately — it’s just a laugh.

    Who cares what anyone thinks is “the best most manly way to get laid” – it’s not your life. We expect anyone CONSUMED with “the right” game philosophy and “online enemies” to be an Alpha Male with a lot going on? Of course not. If you don’t like material, don’t read it. Yikes.

    I think the reality is – this Klaus guy or whoever is causing drama for two reasons. One was as you mentioned. He wants to create attention; you both actually benefit from this “feud.” Two, he sees you as a competitor for his traffic & maybe this “schtick” is not really unique in the mountain of PUA garbage out there so he’s lashing out.

    I’ve benefited from a couple of your products so it was money well spent. I think anyone here who pays attention knows your focus is online game. Personally I online and nightgame (more in my youth) — and actually have gotten laid MUCH more frequently online (no not Tinder) for a variety of reasons. A nice “hunt” is fine but actually in most cases, it’s the girl’s “seduction job” to put up a fake chase for men, but we know most women suck at seduction. If you want to make getting laid intentionally difficult, just to say “you climbed the summit” — whereas I can find the same girl online and bang her effortlessly, meh. I get that you want to feel an achievement but eh. That’s a big part of my game in role reversal with women. They ‘earned’ my sweaty d-stick.

    Reality is, as I think BD has mentioned, busy men don’t have time to “go to the bars” every weekend to chat up strangers into getting their pants off. It’s 2019. Many studious, “Vegan”, or fitness junkie women never attend bars, especially meat-market type scum-holes. They are just as lazy and are online for a lay.

  64. Hollywood : Hollywood :

     

    For me lunch or coffee or something like that it’s just disaster… I’ve been using something that i call “dynamic”… Easy to explain, you just building dynamic (escalation, sex tension, call it as u want) and i m never ever able to do it while having coffee for many reasons ( i hate quiet places where another table hear us,we are sober, it’s just one hour or so etc etc) …. So i rather do something i really enjoy regardless she’s great or bad … So i prefer beer and open option for another plans (live music, karaoke, other bar, taking her to my place… all these things not because i want to impress, it’s just things i love to do even w friends and i have fun no matter what regardless of outcome)

    So my point is that over coffee (esp in 1 hour) im not able to use my usual frame (kinda dick, exotic looking, higher sex drive, being playful etc.)…. So i can’t be “myself” if it makes sense… And I’d say im just not having that much fun/results etc, as i do with things ive described, so it’s why i basically NEVER do coffee dates. And literally never coffee dates if i know it’s just for one hour. That why i take them home at 1st date or never.  Because that dynamic between us is that “great” so she insta wants me or she’s just not interested at all.

     

    And if she says she doesnt drink…I simply go to next girl, because i know, that i want sometimes drunk sex, drunk talks or just have a fun cocktail at bar w music (live) or whatever… so she might be not best match for me at all… Obviously when i’d be lacking of girls, i might go for it, but i usually dont need to…

     

    so cliffs : drinks, logistic (be sure she doesnt wake up next day, so never setup tuesday etc.), be sure you enjoy it even if u would be alone there or w friends (karaoke, live music, whatever , because i think they really feel your vibe, and it’s just sexy when you do something, you really super comfortable with and excited about)

     

    i hope it makes sense, otherwise im happy to write more , if u are curious about something…

     

     

    Oh and yeah. Alcohol helps. You can be more relaxed, in some bar (not romantic, im more like dick/troll/playful type of guy def.not family type looking material) so if u have funny jokes, incorrect humour, openly talk about sex etc., it’s just natural…. I can’t imagine doing that while having coffee and cake, which seems more like job interview, than girl you wanna do fun things with…

     

    So i can’t imagine that well, i’d impress enough to have a 2nd date (and no, it’s not confidence or so, it’s just how i see things” and also once she’s out w me, i see it as a huge lost potentional to be just 1 hour w her (unless she sucks) and let her go….and then build that “dynamic” again at 2nd date and take that risk it might not even happen…

    So i try to maximize it at 1st date and not bothering with 1h coffees

  65. X, if you like nightlife by itself, by all means go for night game. I abhor loud places and alcohol, I will continue having coffee dates. To each his own.

  66. Hey Teevster!

    Go into specifics about all the stuff I said on a forum years ago that traumatized you so much. Go into specific detail about how much I lied and how inconsistent I am.

    It’s YOUR JOB to expose me as the fraud I am, so give specifics so everyone on the internet knows! Now’s your time to shine, Teev! The world is watching!

    Be sure to tell everyone over at Chase’s site too! They need to know!

  67. I didn’t mean clubs/cold approach etc. it’s all different story, i kinda hate these things also, but i prefer smaller bars , live music events etc. In clubs there are 50 better looking guys than me, i have no edge, but in a small place where i have low or zero competition, it’s easy, girls literally come to me, i sucks in cold approach. But yeah, no offense obviously,. do whatever works for ya.

  68. Hey Teevster, disregard BD, he only has ulterior motives. Instead, tell me and other men, who is a reliable and trustworthy (unlike BD) source of relationship management advice? Seriously, I’d love to read more on this from as many sources as possible. On GirlsChase, you only have one article on this topic (When Psycho Women Leave Stuff at Your Place), maybe consider writing more yourself?

  69. My main issues are

    1. You admitted in a recent post that most of your current “FBs” are really sugar babies, i.e. women you pay for sex.  How can you credibly give professional dating advice when most of your recent dating experience has been essentially a glorified version of seeing prostitutes?

    2. I have slept with many women using online dating, and based on my experience I have a hard time believing that you or anyone not named Justin Bieber can consistently get with 8+ women through online dating alone.  As a rule, most guys doing online game are consistently hooking up with girls at their own level of looks or below.  Cute 7s yes, but I don’t believe you are bedding models off of ok cupid.  Real life game is different because you can often get past your average looks through solid game.

    I’m genuinely interested in how you respond to the points above.  Thanks

  70. How can you credibly give professional dating advice when most of your recent dating experience has been essentially a glorified version of seeing prostitutes?

    1. Re-read the word “recent” in your question. You’re talking about the last year or so. I’ve only been doing the hardcore pay-for-it sugar daddy stuff for about a year or so (just dabbled in it before that). Please explain how 11 of the last 12 years are invalid for giving advice regarding using online dating to schedule dates, and using first and second dates to get laid fast (if that indeed is your argument). (Remember, I don’t teach daygame or night game and don’t profess to.)

    2. Getting laid is only a component of my overall woman advice. I discuss nonmonogamous relationship management as much (or perhaps more) than getting laid. If anyone would like to ignore my getting laid/dating advice and focus instead on my relationship advice, that’s cool with me.

    I have slept with many women using online dating, and based on my experience I have a hard time believing that you or anyone not named Justin Bieber can consistently get with 8+ women through online dating alone.

    In 11 of the past 12 years, I have had sex with scores of women I consider 8s (or higher, but mostly 8s) through non-sugar-daddy online dating alone (some 7s too, to be fair). Yes. The only way to prove that, that I know of, is to show you pictures or video, and I addressed the issues with that in the above article. Feel free to re-read that section.

    Also, as always, there’s the issue what an “8” is. Using these one to ten figures is very dicey which is why I try to avoid them. It’s possible you define an “8” differently than I do. Read this for more information.

    However, and I say this because I know what some dissenters will say, if you’re going to take what I just said and immediately turn around and say that most of the women I’ve had sex with were “average” or “ugly” because I said you might not consider them 8s, I know that’s not true, since I’ve had too many guys who I have shown pictures to say that the women I’ve had sex with were “hot.”

    I don’t believe you are bedding models off of ok cupid.

    That’s fine, since I have never bedded a model from OKCupid and have never said I have. Now you’re being silly. Stick with with your rational questions and arguments. I appreciate that you’re the first rational dissenter in this entire thread though. Something to be said for that.

  71. If you want to make getting laid intentionally difficult, just to say “you climbed the summit”

    This sums it up pretty nicely.

    It seems this recent hate against BD comes from his Sugardaddy post. Maybe that post was also the reason for Klaus’ rant. There is a thread over at the nextasf forum. The gist of it seems to be that BD went against the “seduction community” with his Sugar Daddy game and is now no longer “one of us”. It is anti-seduction and “a threat to the community”. To be a true believer, apparently you have to go through years of cold approach with minimal success to earn your wings (like a self-flagellation to prove your devotion). Everything else is cheating. But guess what, I am in my thirties, have a life, and much better things to do than spend years of my spare time approaching strangers in the street.

    I, and probably many others, don’t give a crap about the “seduction community”. What is that even supposed to mean? I am an individual and don’t care about collectivist “us vs them” thinking. If someone “betrays the community”, I don’t care. Simple as that. But many seem to view this as a cult, and if you violate the rules, you get excommunicated. By the way, I actually went to a lair once of my local community and the guys there were creepy and socially uncalibrated af. I was creeped out by them, I can only imagine what it must be like for the women. If this is the “seduction community”, I want no part in it.

    All the religious references in this post are intentional, becaues it seems like some people really treat it this way. But that’s just fitting with pickup gurus finding God and converting to religion.

  72. I’ve had too many guys who I have shown pictures to say that the women I’ve had sex with were “hot.”

    Can any of these guys who have seen pictures, during a seminar for instance, comment here to confirm this statement?

    I am a big fan of your system for woman life and I agree with the vast majority of everything I read from you, but I cannot deny that somewhere in the back of my head I start to feel like playing a bit the devil’s advocate:

    Reading all this drama about pictures and no proof whatsoever, not even a single comment anywhere of a guy saying something like “yeah, I have seen these pictures BD is talking about and some of them are really hot according to me“. You’ve done numerous seminars, I am pretty sure we are talking about at the very least a few dozens of men, probably more, who have paid good money to attend these seminar, seen these pictures, but not any of them is stepping foot in this arena to speak about what they saw? I did NOT attend any seminar by the way, I haven’t seen these pictures.

    Note that meanwhile, I am completely sure that for you these women are indeed really hot, so you are not lying that is certain. Would it be possible that most of these men might not have had the same feeling as you about them and may just have been polite with you?

    In any case, I don’t really care for myself who you bang and how they look, what is important for me is that your SYSTEM WORKS FOR ME, IT IS PRACTICAL AND HAS ALREADY IMPROVED MY LIFE. Thanks BD.

    I cannot believe BD is alone against the whole world on this pictures of hot women issue without anyone to back him up publicly. Please, any guy who have seen these pictures, can you give your opinion on the matter in comments? I think it’s worth mentioning if you found them hot indeed. If you have attended one of his seminar,  it’s probably because like me, you like and agree with his system, so BD deserves some kudos, doesn’t he?

  73. I don’t believe you are bedding models off of ok cupid.

    He’s made that as a past statement.  No he isn’t bedding 8-10’s off OKcupid anymore.  No one is on a regular basis anymore.  Online dating is not where it was.  I haven’t seen many solid 8-10’s on any dating services over 30 years of age.  If you’re a solid 8-10 you have guys in real life hitting on you non-stop at gas stations, work, social circle, the gym, and grocery stores.  You don’t need online dating and it isn’t cool anymore so women aren’t taking it as seriously anymore.  And anyone over 30 who is a 8-10 has filtered the shit out of their pics.   Or they get a million messages and so they only pick top 1% guys that also are their exact type looks wise, job type, and financially.  You would’t not believe the amount of guys that are absolute studs settling for 7’s from online dating.  Or older women.  And the truly hot women under 25 have gone to taking sugar sites (where the models are) as their serious pursuit online.  I have a 18 year old buddy who is in an open relationship and he can barely find a girl hot enough to fuck on Tinder so he sticks to just hitting on women he knows or meets.  Now he’s a good looking, outgoing, confident dude so his standards are very high for what he considers an 8-10 but still.

  74. 1. Re-read the word “recent” in your question. You’re talking about the last year or so. I’ve only been doing the hardcore pay-for-it sugar daddy stuff for about a year or so (just dabbled in it before that). Please explain how 11 of the last 12 years are invalid for giving advice regarding using online dating to schedule dates, and using first and second dates to get laid fast (if that indeed is your argument). (Remember, I don’t teach daygame or night game and don’t profess to.)
    2. Getting laid is only a component of my overall woman advice. I discuss nonmonogamous relationship management as much (or perhaps more) than getting laid. If anyone would like to ignore my getting laid/dating advice and focus instead on my relationship advice, that’s cool with me.

    Thanks for the response.  I think you’re saying that your methods for laying/dating non sugar baby women are just as effective as ever, but you’re choosing to pay for sex because you prefer that for some reason.  Guess I can’t disprove that.  If it were me given the choice I’d prefer a harem of FBs I didn’t have to pay.

    In 11 of the past 12 years, I have had sex with scores of women I consider 8s (or higher, but mostly 8s) through non-sugar-daddy online dating alone (some 7s too, to be fair). Yes. The only way to prove that, that I know of, is to show you pictures or video, and I addressed the issues with that in the above article. Feel free to re-read that section.
    Also, as always, there’s the issue what an “8” is. Using these one to ten figures is very dicey which is why I try to avoid them. It’s possible you define an “8” differently than I do. Read this for more information.
    However, and I say this because I know what some dissenters will say, if you’re going to take what I just said and immediately turn around and say that most of the women I’ve had sex with were “average” or “ugly” because I said you might not consider them 8s, I know that’s not true, since I’ve had too many guys who I have shown pictures to say that the women I’ve had sex with were “hot.”

    I understand why you won’t share photos or videos of your conquests, but this is still a crucial point.  Many of us want to get with women of a higher standard of beauty than we believe is possible through online game (for most guys.)  I suspect we’re working toward different goals and under different standards, but again I can’t prove it.

    That’s fine, since I have never bedded a model from OKCupid and have never said I have. Now you’re being silly. Stick with with your rational questions and arguments. I appreciate that you’re the first rational dissenter in this entire thread though. Something to be said for that.

    That was meant as hyperbole, though I do know some community guys who primarily date models.

  75. @BD – because you don’t like Asian women – and anyone, it would be fun if you care to give your own subjective rating both on the subjective HB10 scale and subjective ugly, average, cute, hot scale. Both face and body separately and overall. I insist subjective, what YOU feel, not objective ratings, not what you thing most people would say.

     

    I believe most of this turmoil about pictures comes from the inability of most men to comprehend how dramatically divergent their judgement of attractiveness is outside perhaps of very few perfect 10s famous models. To illustrate the subjectivity of looks in pictures, I have found this Filipina’s public profile – seemingly a sugar baby or something like that – (warning there is nudity in her pictures). I’ll try to post the link to her public profile in the following post but it will probably not be published since the url is moderated.

    Here is a copy of her face from the WhatsApp profile of her number publicly given in her public profile:

    https://i.postimg.cc/1RLz5qXd/p4p-DAV-20190226-002830.jpg

    And copies of her public profile pictures in case they do not load properly:

    body front hide :

    https://i.postimg.cc/5yQDRjMY/1911535836656-391×290.jpg

    body side :

    https://i.postimg.cc/gcwJWDzR/1901535836656-400×290.jpg

    body front head cut :

    https://i.postimg.cc/dtrV7VTV/1891535836656-400×290.jpg

    body bed with number :

    https://i.postimg.cc/MXkg2xWs/1881535836656-400×290.jpg

    I have never met this person, however I find her example interesting because her body is very clearly shown, in various angles and “raw” without filters. Her body looks very typical of a lot of Filipina I have had sex with:
    I like her skin complexion, her boobs and nipples are nice for me since the bigger the boobs the more peculiar I am. I also like that she is not a large woman.
    Things that could be better but aren’t too annoying for me: a little bit of fat on her stomach, very typical Filipina. Too few muscles on her body, especially glutes: so she doesn’t have a bubble butt. I don’t mean muscle definition: I don’t like to see abs on a woman, but I like when she has muscles underneath especially to make a nice bubble butt. I don’t care the rest of her body doesn’t have muscles, but if she only exercised her ass to grow it round she would be much more attractive for me. Long story short her main default for me is that her ass is boring for me.
    Finally, I am very sensitive to the torso, trunk length or seated height, so her body if it is much smaller than average Filipina (10% probability), I would rate high end cute or 7, if it is average length (50% probability), I would rate low end cute or 6, if it is longer than average(30% probability) I would rate average or 5, if she is much higher than average (10% probability) I rate low end average/ugly or 4.
    I like everything about her face on this picture except her skin complexion looks too white for me in this picture. But My guess is that it’s her make up. I rate her face hot or 8 based on this picture. However I have a history of huge discrepancies on my judgement of faces on pictures vs reality. I don’t know why. So from experience, I know that in reality I may rate her face up to perfect 10 or as low as average 5. But body, no my judgement is very clear if I see such “raw” naked pictures form all these angles.

    In total if she is very tall and only based on my judgement of her facial picture for her face, I rate her high end average 5.7 globally. If on the contrary she is very small (10% smaller Filipina women), I rate her low end hot, or 8 globally.

  76. BLACKDRAGON,

    I would love to provide more examples but I would first give you the chance to respond to my points, which you have attempted to dodge for a while now (something you are also doing with Krauser’s points). Respond to these and I will bring out more (if you so desire, even though I have made clear that I have said what I had to say).

    Also nice strawman (which is totally congruent with your internet persona – I will give you that) claiming anyone has been traumatized about you. No my man, people are annoyed by your behaviour – I have mentioned some of the main reasons in previous comments.

    But I must say I find it hillarious that you ask me or even request me to come up with proves WHEN YOU HAVE NEITHER come up WITH A SINGLE PROOF about:
    – Your business success (google analytics and alexa does not seem to agree with your claims)
    – Your success with women (where even moderators from YOUR forum says you bang 6’s – I am here talking about DNYC)

    Because just like you say

    Hey Teevster!
    Go into specifics about all the stuff I said on a forum years ago that traumatized you so much. Go into specific detail about how much I lied and how inconsistent I am.
    It’s YOUR JOB to expose me as the fraud I am, so give specifics so everyone on the internet knows! Now’s your time to shine, Teev! The world is watching!
     
    Be sure to tell everyone over at Chase’s site too! They need to know!

     

    Actually, no, at this point it is your job to point out that you are not a fraud, not mine. I have delivered my points which you have ignored in every single response of yours. Additionally, many here seems to want some kind of proof from you (none other than you have asked anything from me here)

    Yes, as you say “the world” is watching, but they are not watching me right now, but YOU – and not in a good way.

    Best,

    Teevster

  77. Teevster:

    may I ask you yet another time whose relationship management advice should I follow in place of BD’s?

  78. @Teevster

    I realize you’ll probably ignore this comment since you’ve ignored everyone else in this thread trying to talk to you other than BD but do you realize that BD is playing you like a fiddle and that you’ve basically been his trick monkey during this entire thing?

    Both you and Krauser are doing exactly what BD wants even when he’s making it obvious what he’s doing. He wants you guys ranting about him. It’s like you guys don’t even see what’s right in your face.

    If you wanted to hurt BD you’d completely ignore him and pretend he doesn’t exist. Instead you’re playing right into his hands and BD is probably laughing his ass off right now.

    Krauser started off the winner here but now you and him are looking really dumb.

     

     

  79. Teevster:

    may I ask you yet another time whose relationship management advice should I follow in place of BD’s?

    Hey Anon.

    Sorry for late response,I do not want to promote other people’s content (including my own) on a commercial site (to which I am not affiliated with) and will therefore refrain from suggesting anything here. But feel free to contact me on you know where (you can pm me through their forum) 🙂

    Best,

    Teevster

  80. Who would have thought both GirlsChase and NextASF hate new users so much. Neither let me create an account (GC just said “Forbidden”, NextASF immediately said “Permanently banned”). I can’t be bothered to battle through such a thicket of defenses.

    So spill your beans here.

    Just one name.

  81. Can any of these guys who have seen pictures, during a seminar for instance, comment here to confirm this statement?

    I saw the pictures. They are fine.

  82. Plebs, all of you. Listen to BD or just gfy. I wish to have his patience with idiots like you. While he’s trying to HELP you, peasants.

    I’m out.

  83. Can any of these guys who have seen pictures, during a seminar for instance, comment here to confirm this statement?

    I saw the pics too. They were better than fine. To be fair, I’m assuming Caleb pulled out the hottest girls from his files (that’s what I would do were I in his position) but they were all very attractive. I asked him to point out the ones who were sugar babies and the ones who were normal FBs that he was fucking for free, and he did, and I thought the FBs were better looking than the SBs!

  84. I see hot girls with ugly guys all the time.

    Older guys too, though more rare to be sure.

    I also have a fan base of guys that love a wide variety of women of all shapes, looks, and sizes.  The so called objective “hot” system would most likely be all over the place if you were to rate the girl’s looks.

    Aside from any legal ramifications, people would debate all day on who is hot and who is not.

    I get where the guys are coming from in wanting proof, but if you are outcome independent, cool, but not an asshole, and you have good frame and you are sexually congruent, you can have success with women of all ages and shapes.

  85. Teevster:

    – Alexa doesn’t measure one on one sales.   If you pay BD for consulting or for his SMIC, those numbers are not going to show up.   What is your point?

    – Paying for sugar daddy arrangements would be easier, game or no game.   If you have proven to yourself that you can handle the game fine, and you have disposable income, why not simply eliminate time and effort and simply pay for what you are looking for?    BD is a time management guy, so this approach didn’t surprise me one bit when I first read it.

    And, actually the burden of proof is CLEARLY on the person making the claims, and that’s you Teevster.

    I get you had some negative interactions with the guy in the past and you want to alert others to those interactions, but how much of what you say clearly shows BD is a liar/fraud and how much of it is simple animosity?

    I will say, I have never seen Caleb triggered like he has been in this thread, writing in caps, and not really acting as mature as normal in a couple of instances here.

    That leads me to believe that maybe some of the things you claim “may” be true, but I also believe that people have the right to evolve.

    I would much rather favor a partnership between the opposing forces here where I can learn business and relationship management from BD and then maybe go to you guys for the seduction stuff, in which is not his forte.

    Hopefully, someday you can all get along and form some good strategic partnerships, because it’s a wide market, with a lot of different paths to the goal.

  86. Teevster!

    Ignore those guys above who say you should stop posting! You can’t do that! I’m a HUGE THREAT to all legit PUAs and need to be stopped!

    You seriously need to do screenshots of my Google Analytics and Alexa rankings and post them here and on Chase’s site and Krauser’s site and everywhere else so you can educate everyone on what a liar and fraud I am. You need to police my ass to make sure I stop making all this money with all these lies! Oh wait, I mean, I’m not making any money because I’m actually poor and I’m lying about all this money I’m making just so I can keep ripping people off!

    I need to be stopped, Teev! And you and Krauser are the two guys who can do it!

    You should also post all those screenshots of all that horrible, terrible, bad stuff I said on the forum years ago too, including the top-secret stuff I said with the mods that you already screenshoted. You would totally own me if you did that!

    I can’t even respond to your arguments because they’re so good… after 10 years of pure lies, you’ve finally caught me! You’re just kicking my ass all over the place, and you’re educating everyone what a fraudster I am. All of my businesses are going under right now! I’m totally screwed! It’s working, Teev!

    Keep it up! You can do it!

  87. Alchemist / Gang –

    Please do not post using multiple different names and the same thread.

    Also remember my policy about not responding to off-topic posts. (You really could save yourself a lot of typing.)

    Thanks for the response.

    I’m happy to respond to all calm, rational arguments and objections.

      I think you’re saying that your methods for laying/dating non sugar baby women are just as effective as ever, but you’re choosing to pay for sex because you prefer that for some reason.

    Correct. The reasons are, as I’ve said several times before:

    1. It’s a backup in case not enough of the women from my roster are available when I need them. This doesn’t happen all the time but can happen.

    2. Sugar daddy game is faster than even my system (instead of 3-4 hours it’s 1 hour or less) and I’m much busier now with work than I ever have been in the past.

    3. Unlike a year ago plus, I’m married now and live full-time with a wife, which causes some complications with meeting new women and explaining all of this. Sugar babies don’t care. Some actually prefer it.

    4. I can use my system and sugar daddy game. It’s not like I need to do one or the other. Sugar daddy game is a tool just like anything else (just for more busy, older, higher-income men though; younger guys and/or guys with less money and/or less experience should not do it, as I explained here).

    If it were me given the choice I’d prefer a harem of FBs I didn’t have to pay.

    That’s exactly what I had for a just under a decade.

    And if I were still in my 20s or 30s with a lot more time on my hands and less money, I would completely agree with you. But I’m not there anymore. I’m a married 47 year-old man (about to turn 47 in April, that is) who is so old that I’m looking at getting some reading glasses, who works seven days a week, runs three companies, two of which are booming, and travels long distantces on a regular basis. You don’t sound like you’re anything like that, which is great. Stay away from sugar daddy game then.

    It all depends on where you are in life.

    Many of us want to get with women of a higher standard of beauty than we believe is possible through online game (for most guys.)

    I think that’s a worthy goal. If someone believes that online dating won’t get them there, and wants to start using online dating and later switch to daygame when they get more confidence, even using Krauser’s advice, I think that’s a fine idea.

    Unlike the others who are irrationally upset with me, I am not an ideological zealot about particular sets of techniques. I just want you to be happy long-term. However you can accomplish that, as long as you don’t have to break the law or lie to people, is cool with me.

    I will say, I have never seen Caleb triggered like he has been in this thread, writing in caps, and not really acting as mature as normal in a couple of instances here.

    There must be a rational reason why Caleb is doing that…

  88. Source of the pictures, her public profile

    Mmmmmmm yes. A fine specimen. I very much like lovely oriental ladies that choose that line of work, where would we be without these lovely ladies in our lives?

    Did you enquire into her services? I prefer girls that offer BBBJ with swallow and are willing to rim, so I hope she offered you those services, mmmmmmm very hot.

  89. This article directly talks about pictures of women on the internet, the attraction scales to rate women, and the legal and private threats these may represent, however asking questions in direct relation to these subjects is out of topic? Ah! Interesting…

     

    I saw the pictures. They are fine

     

    They were better than fine.

    What does “fine” or “better than fine” represents subjectively for you? Please if you care, can you say if you saw at least one or 2 women who subjectively, for you, felt like they look “hot”, on the ugly, average, cute, hot scale or if you prefer give a HB 10 scale rating of the couple women you found the most attractive in these pictures.

    Because so far I am left out understanding that these women were average to cute at best to you, but nowhere near “hot”… “fine” could mean anything. I insist that I am talking about your own personal purely subjective felling, NOT asking you to try to guess how most people would objectively rate them.

  90. This article directly talks about pictures of women on the internet, the attraction scales to rate women, and the legal and private threats these may represent, however asking questions in direct relation to these subjects is out of topic? Ah! Interesting…

    Other guys already answered one of your questions, but yes Gang, asking me my detailed opinion of some random Asian chick on the internet you want to fuck is off-topic for this thread, shocking as that may be.

  91. Real PUAs or PUA gurus or seduction gurus have much more game than me, teach better pick-up techniques than me, and in many cases have had sex with more women than me.

    Black Dragon:  What are some other PUA’s/forums that you’d recommend following that are unrelated to you or your brand?

  92. Got divorced in 2012.  Didn’t see it coming and hit me pretty hard. I had to regroup and figure out a way to adapt and create a new life without repeating mistakes.

    I am lucky and grateful to have found BD.  He and I are the same age BTW.  I read The Unchained Man and knew that A 2.0 was the lifestyle for me – No question about it.

    Prior to my divorce I already owned a location independent business. Always knew I wanted that.  But his book helped me organize my thoughts about things I wanted and didnt want and about creating my own systems with my own standards to operate from.

    Thank you BD.  You have really helped me.

    BD and Rollo.

    I read the article by the accuser,  So much anger and hate in that guy.  No thanks.  I’ll stick with BD.

     

     

     

  93. Oh, and SMIC is not $10k.  At least not the level I signed up for.. haha

    Its inexpensive.  Can’t remember how much exactly but small fee for a TON of high quality pod casts (there are several tiers i just did podcast level) but there is soo much “how to get your shit together and some” material.. in podcast form that’s entertaining so its not work listening to.  Although if you’re smart you’ll grab a notebook for some of them so you can take action on it after. And its not fluff.  Its exactly what to do to get ahead of the game (of life) so you’re ready for anything.

    Not a paid endorsement..  haven’t had the privilege of meeting him. But def glad he is around and doing this stuff.  Wish I could have had his book, “The Unchained Man” and all of his podcasts when I was like 20.

  94. Oh, and SMIC is not $10k.  At least not the level I signed up for.. haha

    It’s just strawman after strawman at that site. Not a single valid criticism. Even the claim for proof – that could all be fake as well. BD could post his own comments under different names here saying “I saw the pictures”. And even if you see pictures – it proves nothing. They could still be hired models. Unless you are out in the field with him and he approaches women that you pick out, it can always be fake.

     

    I read the article by the accuser,  So much anger and hate in that guy.  No thanks.  I’ll stick with BD.

    Funny thing that the guy seems quite sensible in his videos. It’s like another person is writing his blog posts.

  95. It’s just strawman after strawman at that site. Not a single valid criticism. 

    The comments over there are full of ignorance of the highest order.

    First of all they have no idea how a business runs. They attack this side with claims of “he has 1m but can’t spend 5-10k”. Like a net worth is the same as money to spend. Like a turnover is the same as profit. Like a business cashflow is the same as budget to spend on whatever I like. Like someone who makes money never has hiccups in his life that can slow his plans. It’s like I have to sell my house for 200k to go to a 10k vacation. Or take the money I have to put in the business growth to get a Lamborghini. These guys are clueless.

    Then the alexa rankings and this guy’s claim that 20k subs are A LOT- I can get 20k subs in few months with just 5k ad spend. I certainly expect a blog that runs for 10 years for free to have 20k subs, it’s not A LOT. And the alexa rankings, prove shit. It’s the traffic that the blog gets and the conversion numbers. Someone with a bit of marketing knowledge understands that with those traffic numbers and with this business model, this is very profitable. It seems to me that guy is leaving huge money on the table because all he cares is put his dick somewhere, let’s see how far this will take him. I’m sure he will end up getting dragged to the mud from a certain woman.

    Also Gang if you follow the system to the letter, you wouldn’t wonder about BD’s women. You would have had those results yourself. Otherwise it means you follow it half assed, or don’t dare to hit cute/hot women.

    The point of this blog is happiness and freedom. If you do it half assed you would never understand what it’s like. These people over there apart from the Pick Up part they are clueless and they will always have problems in their lives, their anger and comments show that. Let them be and do what you are doing.

  96. @ Blackdragon

    You have a good system which works. There are a few things we have argued about in the past and probably will continue to argue about, but for the most part we agree. Krauser  should realize that but he does not. you are still being honest about his system and kind to him by saying that his direct approach Day Game model works for getting women, but there are other ways which work.

    The problem with Krauser’s model is that men will age out of it on average faster than yours because they become too old not to get a creepy vibe appearance which increasingly because of the POUND ME TOO MOVEMENT is more likely to get oneself physically injured or arrested. It is much easier to filter out the women especially the very young women who may want to have sex with a middle age man under the BLACK DRAGON SYSTEM without getting beaten and injured plus arrested. also his system is by far more time consuming to both learn and maintain than yours.

    However, he did get it mostly to completely right by saying that you are engaging in prostitution. Now if you want to say that legally speaking Sugar Babies are not prostitutes just like strippers and porn stars are not then fine, I agree with you. However, we can both agree that legally speaking Prostitutes such as Escorts, brothel workers, rub and tug massage therapists etc. are just as much of sex workers as strippers, porn stars and sugar babies are. I think we should be intellectually honest and call the whole lot of them prostitutes, but in the collapsing West people are not doing that and sad to say it seems one of them is you. I also like you and Krauser think prostitution should be legal and decriminalized.

  97. Now if you want to say that legally speaking Sugar Babies are not prostitutes just like strippers and porn stars are not then fine, I agree with you. 

    Not only that, but to mention that BD calling it(by his very own word) “Sugar Daddy Game.”
    Several times! Consistently, even in this post…

    Really?

    A game?!

    Are you high??

  98. then this comment must also be off topic just ignore it

     

    asking me my detailed opinion of some random Asian chick on the internet you want to fuck is off-topic for this thread, shocking as that may be.

     

    I don’t need nor do I give a rat’s ass about your or anyone else’s opinion on a woman to decide if I am going to fuck any given woman, or prostitute, thank you. It seems as if you’re turning this into some form of personal attack by implying that I want to fuck this woman, when my point is to exhibit a wide divergence in tastes. Which is in favour of your case…

    I could have chosen a famous hot big boobs blonde and say I find her hot : this would really not be on topic since it would not show any divergence in tastes.

    I choose this example because she is perfectly random and completely unknown and she represents what you said you dislike. You said many times that you don’t like asians, especially filipinas, and you like big boobs so it would illustrate a wide divergence of men tastes.

    You don’t seem to see any difference, your loss.

    You could have literally given an answer in 3 words and 3 numbers such as “body 3 face 5 overall 4” for instance. And it is in favour of your case.

    Granted there is the survey in one comment in your article about the HB10 scale, however this survey focuses mostly on faces and has zero naked body. It seems clear to me that faces are more personal than body thus the survey might be skewed, at least it doesn’t tell much about perceptions of naked body. Moreover you commented but didn’t share your own ratings on this little survey.

    I don’t want to fuck that woman, nor did I say I wanted to and moreover I am and have been in relationships with a lot of women with very similar body, since she is very typical of Filipinas and I like them. So when I do pay for sex, it’s in general with women who I find really solid hot, whereas she most probably is just cute to me or at best low end hot. Her face is interesting for me because also distinctively Filipina but this time I do rate her face hot indeed, thus widening the perceptions gap on an otherwise objectively not very particular woman.

    For me it’s very much core to this conversation because of course nobody expects you to fuck perfect 10 models. I trust you that you fuck mostly women who you find hot. And contrary to Krauser, I also believe that you aren’t delusional, some other men who have seen your photos must have find at least a couple of them also clearly hot from his perspective. Not merely “fine”, “better than fine” or “cute”.

    As for the vast majority of women you fuck they probably fall into the hot but not model type of girl, thus are perceived with a very wide variability to men’s tastes. So most of them probably fall into the merely cute category when perceived by other men.

    However statistically speaking, if you show photos of dozens of women who you do find really hot to dozens of men, it’s impossible that none of these men steps out here to say “I saw the pictures and there was one (or more) who I found really hot”. Unless your tastes are extremely skewed in one very specific direction that no other guy likes, which would be weird since you love big boobs blondes and so many guys do love big boobs blondes.

    I don’t know how to say it in english but in french my conclusion at the view of this thread and your reactions is that:
    “il y a anguille sous roche”

  99. The sugar daddy thing isn’t my cup of tea.

    To each their own though.  What do I know?  Logically I guess it make some sense. It’s just not for me.

    I don’t think I could get turned on by that.  But again, to each their own.

    Regarding calling it game, I can see why guys who have fun with it would prefer to call it game.  But I wouldn’t call it game.

    Regarding Day Game vs Online Game,  I think Day Game is more fun, more interesting and more rewarding.  But I’m somewhat out going.  I think it’s a better “high” for lack of a better word, meeting a new girl in person.  Plus I like knowing what she’s like in person (actual looks etc) before putting in any effort.

    Online is obviously more efficient.

    But I didn’t need BD to meet girls or get laid.  I think it’s crazy easy to get laid these days.  I realize some guys need help that’s just not something I needed luckily for me.

    Its the whole structuring relationships in a way that will lead to long term happiness for me that I wanted to figure out.

    So BD has helped me with that and a ton of other things to make my life better.

  100. if you follow the system to the letter, you wouldn’t wonder about BD’s women. You would have had those results yourself. Otherwise it means you follow it half assed, or don’t dare to hit cute/hot women.

     

    I didn’t follow BD system before mid 2016 when I first stumbled on this blog. At this time I was in a very dysfunctional OLTR with an 18 years old personal 9.7 (we can say personal perfect 10 for all practicalities which led me to develop a oneitis about her physical appearance) drama queen (so really not a oneitis about the relationship because the amount of drama was out of hands). Prior to that I was doing what we call here MLTRs and my method was very “I am polyamorous not monogamous”, plastered everywhere on my profile, plus a lot of mansplaining about how I am polyamorous right away during the first date. Most of the time with 5 MLTRs in rotation, but I wasn’t doing it always with the rules. So I already had more drama than I would have liked but it was manageable. On top of that, I have always done some prostitution irregularly. These past 5 years it’s concentrated when I visit Pattaya.

    Fast forward now, late 30s, I am not anymore with the HB10, but I am still plagged with the physical oneitis. Indeed, after the relationship ended with ber, I have fucked to this day 48 other women, including 4ONS (free), 26 new relationships (non p4p, non sugar baby, completely free), and 18 prostitutes. But I still haven’t even just seen, even just across the street or in bars, night clubs, or in strip clubs/gogo, or from online in the areas I visited anyone who I found clearly as physically attractive as she was (she isn’t anymore since she got pregnant few month after the break up and delivered, thus damaged her body).

    I am not following one of the rule: “no cuddles with FB” I cuddle with all the women I fuck however I frame it as “I am a very cuddly person, I cuddle with all my friends”.

    I follow all the other rules (I do a few mistakes sometimes but then I notice them and I see their negative consequences).

    I soft next. I also have soft nexted HB10 so many times. And I have practically hard nexted her when she started to become violent against herself. Which I would probably not have done without reading BD about when to hard next. Who knows to what it would have escalated if I didn’t read BD. I have been years before in an other relationship where the woman became crazy violent and I was using force to contain her when I should have hard nexted her right away.

    Right now I am smooth sailing with 2 regular MLTR I see almost every week, cute, 24 and 26. One irregular MLTR, also cute overall but average face. One average FB, her seated height is too tall for me so she looses 2 points because of that, but aside from this if I could scale her down I would consider her cute. One average FB because she has baby damage, but her face is really hot, a solid 9. At least 3 of them comply with my kink (fucking her ass), a 4th used to comply for months but not anymore since recently so I am slowing her to less than once a week and maybe I will downgrade her to FB depending how I feel then.

    Zero drama.

    My woman life takes me a fraction of the time I used to spend on it because I text a lot less, I do FB, I don’t spend as much in person time as I used to with each MLTRs, etc… etc…

    As I already said earlier, BD system works. I particularly recommend the UORM. And the unchained man of course.

    I think overall with BD system, HB10 set aside, I have increased a little bit the average physical appearance of the women I fuck, I have lowered significantly the average age of women and the number of women with baby damage. And I may have doubled or tripled the proportion of women who comply with my kink.

    My problem is if I put back HB10 in the equation: wity the oneitis for how she used to look I feel may have fucked up my compass for low end hot women who are not my subjective perfect 10 women. Also I spend most of my time is Asia and I miss black “african or descendents” women, particularly their round ass and dark skin. So I feel right now when I see a woman I am like: meh she is nowhere as hot as HB10 so she is cute, kinda binary thinking. Thus this, otherwise silly conversation – I feel Krauzer doesn’t even write properly on his site by the way, has catched my attention since BD says he fucks almost only hot women.

    When I mentioned “free” it means I do not give any money directly to these women and whatever very few stuffs I pay to them are dwarfed in value compared to what I spend just in condoms and lubricant alone. So they really cost me virtually no money overhead whatsoever. Most of the time I spend 0 in total for her and for myself during the first date.

  101. I think Day Game is more fun, more interesting and more rewarding.

    Sure it is as is playing video games all night, not working during the day, nor having kids.  But people don’t come to this site who are trying to learn how to pickup women when you should be working.  They come here to learn how to pickup women after they worked all day, took care of their house, their kids, and etc.  Not work all day, take care of the kids and etc. then hang out all night at a bar or coffee shop.  So it’s irrelevant and no one cares how awesome it is.  I did that shit in college and the army when I could without any boot camps or internet guru training.  Then I didn’t even have to know game.  Women came to me.  I didn’t get PUA awards for it then nor will anyone now.  Which is why anyone would keep bring up that shit on a site that doesn’t even talk about “daygame”.  It’s completely pointless and irrelevant.

    As far as the sugar baby thing it’s the same thing.  Once guys get past 50 you’re not going to consistently get relationship-less sex (the important part) with new hot (second must have important part) women under 25 (3rd most important part).  Sorry..  Hate to burst anyone’s bubble but it isn’t possible for the average guy.  You are old and considered creepy.  Can you?  Sure on occasion.. I have but I wouldn’t think I could make it my weekly or even monthly expectation.  there are those outliers who are rich and still look like Tom cruise but I don’t know any of those guys and they don’t need BD’s books nor daygame advice.  Shit I used to only date models, hooters girls and very top strippers but at 47 with my nice house, German sports car, excellent income, being in shape, dressing top notch i’m not going to be pulling new hot fresh girls under 25 on the regular.  Btw, I’m bald and look a lot better than other guy complaining about BD and I’m 49.  No question.  He’s not going to be pulling young hotties looking like he looks.  that’s a fact.  Not anymore.  But even if I could when would have to have the opportunity to meet these women.  Where you going to pick them up?  At the bar? lol.  At the gym?  No that’s creepy.  Tinder?  yeah okay.  Work?  Sure but I like my income.  I don’t care how much hair, plastic surgery, and shit you buy it won’t matter.  You either pair up with a young hot woman (possible yes) or you sugar daddy it.

  102. Among the most recent and current relationships I count :

    5 average

    9 cute

    2 hot

    Knowing that a woman who has already been pregnant cannot be hot for me unless 2% exception to the rule (one p4p I fucked back in november, she workout at the gym 3 hours 5 to 6 times a week, and has a very strict diet, doesn’t drink alcohol at all and doesn’t smoke, and doesn’t have stretch marks, this type of dedication combined with the luck of not having stretch marks is rare). If her face is cute and body cute she loses one category from the baby damage. So she is average. If her face is hot and body hot when dressed, she is average at best. Also the seated height, I rule out more than 60% of women, maybe more than 80% on this sole criteria. If I was applying this criteria in europe or USA I would probably rule out automatically 90% of women or more just for this. I would probably not even fuck a good 2/3 of the women I used to find hot and fucked 10 years ago. Most where my height or taller. But seeing a woman with a torso as long or longer than mine is a huge turn off now. I am 5’8″.

    I also hard next a lot of women if they can’t receive anal sex.

  103. Sorry I don’t know why my previous comments where posted under name “Ganged” instead of “Gang”, maybe the autocorrect on my mobile.

  104. Black Dragon:  What are some other PUA’s/forums that you’d recommend following that are unrelated to you or your brand?

    Any large pick-up forum can give you value, even Roosh’s or Gambler’s. The problem is, these forums being full of younger (under age 35) PUAs, you’re going to have to wade through a mountain of ego and infighting to get to the good stuff, just like I had to do when I first joined a PUA forum way back in 2008. The good data is there, you just need to dig.

    Thank you BD.  You have really helped me.

    You’re very welcome.

    The problem with Krauser’s model is that men will age out of it on average faster than yours

    Yes but that’s not unique to Krauser. The entire PUA and right-wing Manosphere models are designed for men under the age of 35. If you’re under 35 or so, it’s great and it works well. Once these guys hit age 35 though, as I’ve talked about before, these guys have no answers (other than to convert to Christianity and get traditionally monogamously married to a young, foreign, near-virgin and then have assloads of drama once the NRE dies down and get divorced 4-5 years later). That’s why you see so many content providers in this zone age 35 or over flounder so much.

    Which is fine. A long-term lifestyle is why I’m here. I’m here to pick up the slack.

    However, he did get it mostly to completely right by saying that you are engaging in prostitution.

    Correct. I’ve said that already.

  105. @John

    “But people don’t come to this site who are trying to learn how to pickup women when you should be working.  They come here to learn how to pickup women after they worked all day, took care of their house, their kids, and etc.  Not work all day, take care of the kids and etc. then hang out all night at a bar or coffee shop.”

    Speak for yourself John.

    This site is about living whatever the hell type of life you want to live (assuming it’s not illegal).  That’s the whole point of the site and BD’s books IMO.  I assume you haven’t read “The Unchained Man”.  You should give it a read.  Its about breaking out of the prison that most men are in.

    I am out and about during the day when I want to be.  My company makes my money while I sleep.  If it’s nice out, I sure as hell will go run some errands or whatever the hell else I want to do.  And while I’m out running errands or whatever if I see a good looking girl and get IOI I will chat her up for sure.  It takes like 5-10 minutes and is fun as hell and usually is a highlight of my day.

    As far as chasing women and staying out late goes, I don’t care for bars so I don’t bother hanging out in them.  I don’t bother with night game really.  Unless I’m just out and about at night and see a good looking girl giving me IOI.. then if I have time, I will chat her up.  Why the hell not?

     

  106. @John

    Also.. Regarding age and looks and meeting women, Read BD’s posts on all that, sounds like you haven’t.

    But my personal opinion on all that is that a guy at any age can meet women and make a new connection..  It’s mostly mindset and attitude.  Of course the better looking you are the easier it is.  And the quality of the women will surely vary depending on the guy’s SMV but there are women out there of all ages dude.

    If an 80 year old guy is at whole foods and he’s healthy and not in a wheel chair and he has a fun, happy, confident attitude he can easily walk over to a 65 -7o+ year old lady and chat her up and make a new connection.

    Seems bizarre to me that anyone thinks that once a man reaches a certain age his dating life is done.  That is effed up thinking.  Maybe with Online Dating..?  I wouldn’t know.  But my Dad is 81.  My mom died years ago.   Once a younger waitress that was working other tables came up to our table and said our waitress was interested in my Dad and wanted to see what he thought.  So she was actively trying to get a date with him. My dad wasn’t interested.  I thought he should have been, she was cute for late 60s.  But he said she wasn’t his type.  A woman in his neighbor hood cold called him on the phone 6 months after my mom died!  She didn’t know him, just heard from another neighbor that his wife had died.  She waited 6 months and called him.  They dated for a few months.

    Will all guys be able to pick up 21 year old women no matter how old they get? Um, no. But most guys can meet new women while out and about at any age if they have their shit somewhat together.

    I’m 5’9 (so shorter than most guys), 47 years old. I’m pretty fit.  I have all my hair (luckily) knock on wood, I’m decent looking but not super hot or anything.  My best feature is probably that my body is better than most guys of any age.  I’m not huge/massive body builder but I am build very well.  I am easy to talk to and a fun and happy guy for the most part.  I can get women in their 20s still.  I don’t focus on age though.  I just focus on if I think they are sexy and look like fun to spend time with and if they look interested in me.

    I don’t insist on 8s or above though.  That’s all subjective.  To me as long as I think they are cute and sexy I’m in.  If I had to guess what the girls I go out with were on a typical guy’s scale I’d say 6-9s. But probably mostly 7s.  Idk..  But who cares what they are on other guys scale. I sure as hell don’t.

    Anyway, I hope this helps

     

  107. Anyway, I hope this helps

    Yeah it’s awesome but none of it addresses anything that I claimed specifically.

    But my personal opinion on all that is that a guy at any age can meet women and make a new connection

    never said otherwise.  I do and I’m 50.

    Seems bizarre to me that anyone thinks that once a man reaches a certain age his dating life is done.

    never claimed that.

    Will all guys be able to pick up 21 year old women no matter how old they get? Um, no. But most guys can meet new women while out and about at any age if they have their shit somewhat together.

    never claimed otherwise.  Sure and I do but we aren’t just talking about random young 6’s.

    I don’t insist on 8s or above though.  That’s all subjective.

    You finally admit what my entire post said and all that matters….     “Once guys get past 50 you’re not going to consistently get relationship-less sex (the important part) with new hot (second must have important part) women under 25 (3rd most important part).  Sorry..  Hate to burst anyone’s bubble but it isn’t possible for the average guy.  You are old and considered creepy.  Can you?  Sure on occasion..”  

    1.  Past 50 2.  New 3.  Consistently (on demand in a week when you need a new one) 4.  Hot (8-10) 5.  Under 25 6.  No strings attached.

    that’s where the sugar baby thing comes in.  It’s consistent, predictable, and guaranteed new hot women.  I’ve yet to do it but I’ve seen the women and talked to women who do it.  They’re crazy hot.  Tinder and bumble are a joke in comparison.  And since this isn’t a PUA site no one really gives a flying fuck whether it’s “game”. It’s just another method.

  108. “Ganged” instead of “Gang”

    lol, now that’s funny. If it makes you feel any better I keep getting my own age wrong. I turn 50 in month and have posted i’m 47 (other guys age i was responding to), 49 (my current age ), and 50 (age next month).

  109. What does “fine” or “better than fine” represents subjectively for you? Please if you care, can you say if you saw at least one or 2 women who subjectively, for you, felt like they look “hot”, on the ugly, average, cute, hot scale or if you prefer give a HB 10 scale rating of the couple women you found the most attractive in these pictures.

    Caleb showed us about 6 pics. I remember one of them I thought was average but all the rest I thought were cute or hot, mostly hot. 1 looked like a HB10 but I don’t know if you can really tell that from a single photo.

    The haters say Caleb doesn’t bang hot chicks and Caleb says he does. As Caleb himself has said, the truth usually lies somewhere “in the middle.” Based on everything I’ve seen, I believe he hooks up with hot girls, and a lot of them, and that he’s being honest about this. The evidence is there and it’s no stretch of the imagination to say that a confident guy (Caleb is very confident and charismatic in real life) with skills having sex with a large sample size of women for 10 years straight would end up with a lot of HB8-10s just from statistical results alone regardless of where they came from, online dating, daygame, what have you.

    But I also think there are plenty of 6s and 7s in the mix that Caleb doesn’t talk about. To be fair to Caleb I don’t think he’s outright denied having sex with women like that but I don’t know. I don’t think he lies about it. I just think he doesn’t talk about it.

  110. Well, within a month someone will surely post some still frames from Caleb’s upcoming video to satiate the curiosity of those who think that PF’s appearance is a big deal. (It’s certainly legal to do so.) I, for one, am only mildly curious. The min/max/average hotness of Caleb’s chicks has nothing to do with usefulness of his advice.

  111. @John

    My bad.  I guess I skimmed and didn’t read your post well enough.  – Apologies

    @Gang

    Interesting read.  Sounds like its going well.   The part about women’s seated height being a big problem and a no go for you is effing hilarious

    Sounds like a Seinfeld episode

  112. My bad.  I guess I skimmed and didn’t read your post well enough.  – Apologies

    No worries..  I can be an ass..  you’re a good dude and I like how you think..  real good attitude..

  113. Caleb showed us about 6 pics. I remember one of them I thought was average but all the rest I thought were cute or hot, mostly hot. 1 looked like a HB10 but I don’t know if you can really tell that from a single photo.

    Thanks JStorm, this pretty much proves BD’s claims and closes the discussion, at leasr for me.

     

  114. The part about women’s seated height being a big problem and a no go for you is effing hilarious

    I know!… Right? 🙂 But mine is kinda short and sex just feels so much better when hers is smaller than mine. How many women have you fucked who sit taller than you, probably a grand total of zero… As for most men this never happens, thus not a problem. But for me it happens all the time if I don’t screen specifically for smaller women.

    The sweetest spot being 4.5inches/12cm less than mine, smaller than that and she becomes too small on the contrary. But it doesn’t have to be so big difference, 2 inches is good. Note that I am still fuckin that one FB who is 2 inches shorter than me standing but 1 inch taller than me sitting, and it’s just really uncomfortable or downright impossible to kiss in some positions.

  115. But I also think there are plenty of 6s and 7s in the mix that Caleb doesn’t talk about.

    I have indeed had sex with some women who other men would consider 6s and 7s. That’s almost unavoidable when you’re talking about large numbers of women; I don’t think any man with my large number of past sexual partners (or larger) could say that 100% of all the women in their past were all women that all men would consider hot.

  116. I can’t. Once I, for example, set out to find someone with boobs as large as possible. One girl showed up and did she tick that box, but her boobs weren’t the only large thing about her. I still had sex with her a couple of times. I decided I didn’t like that very much. So what?

  117. @Gang

    How many women have you fucked who sit taller than you, probably a grand total of zero…

    hahaha I have no idea, I’ve never paid close attention to that but I’m sure it’s happened.  It’s gonna be impossible not to notice that now though.. But I just barely hit 5’9 so it’s happened.  And I know for sure there’s been a ton of women that sit less than 4.5 inches shorter than me.  Although my torso is large, it’s my legs that are on the short side so I sit slightly high for my overall height.

    I’m pretty flexible on all that but I will say that I do actually prefer if a woman is close to my height (which is most the women I’m with) and only 2-4 inches shorter than me, much better for kissing at anytime without bending my neck, just tilting it..  but that’s just what’s ideal for me.  Its def not a deal breaker though.  The ex wife was 5’7 and like I said, I’m 5’9.  And I don’t mind if they wear high heels, even if that makes them as tall or taller.  Actually makes me feel even more confident.. haha Since I’m fairly muscular I still look way more masculine.  So her being taller in heels gives me the feeling of being bad ass enough to break all SP norms with zero insecurities.

     

    @John

    Thks

  118. Oh wow. Kinda surprised a post like this is required.

    Especially item 2. People just don’t get it.

  119. If I had a blog like this I would not be posting pics of women I’ve had.  Not even if they were all 10’s.

    That’s not a classy move.  But that’s just my opinion.

    And it’s already been proven to be unnecessary for the success of the site and/or his materials.

    So it’s a no brainer at this point IMO

  120. Although my torso is large, it’s my legs that are on the short side so I sit slightly high for my overall height.

    Exactly! So it probably never is a problem for you. I am the exact opposite proportions: longer legs shorter torso. And 5’8″, so my torso is really shorter than yours 😉

    only 2-4 inches shorter than me, much better for kissing at anytime without bending my neck, just tilting it..

    Typically reverse problem than mine

    I also don’t care much about her total height: she could have small torso as I like and very long legs and fall into the scenario you described. I actually saw a few black women like that. It’s hot for me.

    Generally speaking men like smaller women (than themselves)with long legs and short torso proportions, women like taller men with long torso and shorter legs proportions.

  121. A quick Google search reveals

    That’s, however, as much ad hominem as Krauser’s original post.

  122. “So, what did BD do wrong this week?” According to his critics, every bad thing in your news feed.

    The reality? A man with experience is never at the mercy of a man with a theory.

    Although BD is significantly younger than I am (59), our lives, relationship experiences and structure are remarkably similar. I’ve never bought his products, never met him, yet his system is almost exactly the same as mine. The major difference is that I think libertarianism has no place in a fully automated, AI future and instead of SDG I prefer “Married Girlfriends” (attached fwbs).

    Have used these social technologies since the last century. This stuff worked last century and it works now. Techniques are written in sand and change over time, but principles are etched in stone. BD teaches both quite effectively, yet his system is solidly grounded in time effective principles or I wouldn’t be seeing women 1/3 my age from Tinder.

    Botox, filler, hair implants and a fitness routine that might kill about 80% of you are part of why it works: Women think I’m 35 to 40. But the 20% that fuels 80% of the results is contained within this blog as time tested principles. They work for him, they work for me and they will work for you.

    Yet males without a reservoir of sufficient experience still slander and complain.

    BD is wrong about this, BD is wrong about that. Now, BD is purportedly “lying”, sold his soul to SJWs and invented #metoo in the secrecy of George Soros’ basement. This Critifest is inappropriate for one major reason:

    Men do not complain. Boys complain.

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