first date advice, first online date, online dating advice, meaning of an open relationship, alpha male traits

Several of you sent me this article here which analyzes the numbers of men having, or not having sex. It analyzes the clams of incels that the “Chads” are taking all the girls, leaving the incels with “none.”

Before I go into the details of these numbers, let me state a few facts first.

Fact 1: Millennials and other young people are having less sex than any other prior generations. Read this article and this one, where I quote all the stats that clearly show there is not a “hookup culture.” My Generation X and the Baby Boomer generation before me were having tons more sex as young people than young people do today, and that applies to both men and women.

This is amazing to me, since back when I was young, there was no internet or online dating. On top of that, we had a more conservative, right-wing, 1980s Regan-era culture. All of that made having sex with new women much harder than it is today. We are living in a weird era where having sex with others is as easy as it has ever been, yet people aren’t taking advantage of it. Fascinating.

Fact 2: Of course there is a bell curve with this stuff, with a few men on the low end having zero sex, a few men like me on the high end having tons of sex with lots of hot girls, and a huge mountain of normal beta males having occasional sex with average women in the middle. So regardless of what I’m about to report, I don’t think there aren’t a few men at the very top getting a lot more hot girls than other men. Of course that’s true.

Okay, with those two things being said, here’s what the article’s datasets report.

1. Whether or not men are getting less sex in the last few years varies depending on the study done. Some indeed report this, but others report that since 2010, men have been getting laid more. So there is no scientific consensus on this.

2. The standard MGTOW/incel/internet loser line of “20% of the men are getting 80% of the sex” is false. If it were true, these 80% would have to be having sex twice a day, every day, without stopping, to maintain these numbers.

Even I don’t have sex that often. I “only” have sex three times a week or so, but to be fair, I’ve been doing that very consistently for a decade or so, without a break, and with multiple women. But even with my numbers I can’t be in this mythical 80/20 distribution.

What is more accurate, at least according to the research, is that at best, the top 20% of men are getting 50-60% of the sex while the other 80% is fighting over the remaining 50-40%. This also jives with my anecdotal experience.

3. There is no growth in the amount of sex the top 20% of men are getting. To quote the article,

There’s no appreciable change in the concentration of sex among never-married young men and women. The core incel story about what’s going on here—that a few Chads are hoarding a growing share of Stacies, depriving incels of mates—just doesn’t hold up. The top 20% of unmarried men are having about the same share of total sexual activity or sexual partnerings as has been the case for decades.

Exactly. Way back when I was in high school during the late 1980s, I was a virgin throughout high school, as were most of my friends. However, there were a small handful of guys who were having sex with lots of different girls, including many of the girls I wanted to have sex with.

And this was 30 fucking years ago. You didn’t see me or my friends bitch about “Chads,” muscular guys, PUAs, or Alpha Males. We didn’t bitch and moan about how we were all fucked and there was nothing we could do, and how we were doomed to just jerk off to porn for the rest of our lives, or how there was no way we could ever marry a hot girl or blah blah blah blah. Seriously, not once did me or any of my horny-but-virgin friends ever have any conversation like this.

Instead, my friends and I (at least most of them) just got older, improved our confidence, and ended up having sex with hot girls. We weren’t hopeless incels. We were just late bloomers. I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 23 years old. Do I care? Nope. I more than made up for that a little later in life. Today, my sex life is beyond my wildest teenage fantasies, and I mean that literally.

This kind of thing is normal and natural. Just calm down, get your shit together, work on your confidence, outcome independence, appearance, and game. Then you’ll get laid, and with hot girls. Yes, it will take some time, but you’ll get there if you keep at it. That’s how success works.

4. According to some studies, the amount of never-married sexless men has increased a little in the last few decades (though not very much since 2005). But the reason isn’t “Chads”. The reason is something I’ve been talking about on this blog for years. It’s because less young people are getting married.

Guys are getting tired of getting financially ass-raped in divorces, so the rate of men in their 20s getting marred has dropped like a stone. Since a percentage of men were only getting sex because they were getting married, that group of men has gone without sex since marriage rates have dropped.

Important point the article does not address: The actual marriage rate has not decreased. It’s just been delayed. Men are still getting married in the exact same massive numbers they always have… it’s just that they’re waiting longer to do it. The average guy used to get married at age 23. Now he waits until he’s 29. But men still aren’t “not getting married.”

So all this red pill / manosphere messaging about how men are “fleeing marriage” is bullshit. They’re not fleeing, they’re just delaying. Men still get married, they just wait until their 30s to do it.

5. Statistically, virginity rates are higher with men who still live at home with their parents. As the Western world continues its slow economic and cultural collapse, more and more men are living at home with their parents at later ages. Thus, more men are going to be virgins.

This matches with my experience talking to men over the last many years. Of the men over age 25 who tell me they’re still virgins, a huge percentage majority of these guys are still living at home with at least one of their parents.

So this increase has nothing to do with “Chads.” It has to do with economics (as well as these corporatist bastards you people keep voting into office).

The article sums it up this way:

But whatever the direct effect of education on never-married men, the primary cause of the rise in sexlessness is simply the increasing delay of marriage. The delay in marriage has numerous causes, of course, but probably the most powerful driver of marital timing also relates to education. Men and women are much less likely to get married while attending school, and across times and countries, an increase in the years of schooling is associated with later age of marriage, though more-educated people do tend to get married eventually. Thus, as more and more schooling becomes necessary for a good middle-class job, marriage gets pushed later and later, leaving more young people (men and women!) companionless and lonely.

The rise of young male sexlessness isn’t about Chads and Stacies; it isn’t primarily about Tinder or Bumble; it’s not mostly about attitudinal shifts in what women want from relationships; and it’s not mainly about some new war between the sexes. It’s mostly about people spending more years in school and spending more years living at home. But that’s not actually a story about some change in sexual politics; instead, it’s a story about the modern knowledge economy, and to some extent exorbitant housing costs. As such, it’s no surprise that rising sexlessness is being observed in many countries. This, in turn, suggests that finding a solution to help young people pair up may not be as easy.

Now please, for fuck’s sake, stop complaining like a baby and instead get to work on your life so you can be happier.

128 Comments on “Are Douchey Alpha Males REALLY Taking Sex Away From Incels?

  1. The article only calculates sexual frequency, not number of partners. Some guys could be having sex with the same woman three times a week for years (yuck! But possible). I’d like to see a breakdown for number of partners, which is a different thing altogether. I’d guess the pattern hasn’t changed much over the decades, with a very small proportion of women having sex with a large number of men, but most having only a few, while with men, it’s slightly more evenly spread. But that’s a guess based on intuition and observation, not data.

  2. ‘stop complaining like a baby”
    Cunt shaming language.
    This is the cancer,infectious Passive Aggressive Syndrome that cunts propagate. More insidious than any other STD
    Man-card REVOKED

  3. “20% of men bang 80% of women” is horse-shit, but not because of what you said, it´s much easier.

     

    In 2018 80% of women are not “bangable” with the obesity rates, SJW, been generous only 40% of women are sexually desirable.

  4. ‘stop complaining like a baby”
    Cunt shaming language.

    I think you’re at the wrong blog:

    http://blackdragonblog.com/2018/07/26/im-an-asshole-if-you-dont-like-it-please-go-away/

    In 2018 80% of women are not “bangable” with the obesity rates, SJW, been generous only 40% of women are sexually desirable.

    Sexually desirable to you. As I’ve said many times, overweight women online get hundreds of messages from eager men. Women you find fat and/or ugly get laid left and right and have no problem at all finding sexual partners, at least in most cases.

    Guys will fuck anything.

  5. Some guys could be having sex with the same woman three times a week for years 

    (yuck! But possible)

    Unless you’re a thrill of the hunt guy, most men would absolutely be thrilled with this arrangement. Most guys who are frustrated aren’t frustrated cause they’re only getting it 3x per week with the same women. They’re frustrated cause they’re getting it once a month or less.

  6. 1.BD,from your expirience.What do you think its the difference between a natural,a pua,an alpha 1.0?

    2.I mean you say that alpha males 1.0 are confident,but in terms of cold approaching,do you think a pua is better than an Alpha male 1.0 who doesnt know that Game and PUAs exist?

    The question could be this,do you think that Alpha males 1.0 are already PUAs,instinctively or being a Pua is a notch above alpha male 1.0.

    Do you think The Game that guys learn from Other Puas(the game that Rsd Tyler or Todd teaches),is superior to the game the Alpha male 1.0 know from birth?Or in terms of game being a pua attracts the same amount of girls like being an alpha 1.0 or alpha 2.0(both who dont know about GAME and red pill).

  7. Utter fucking horseshit. Women’s attitudes toward relationships have most certainly changed, and I’m saying this as someone with empirical, boots on the ground experience. Actually, you don’t even need to leave the house – just casually peruse the Twitter feed for a quick glance at the way young women’s behavior has changed dramatically in the last few years. Sorry BD, but you’re a bit of a dogmatist when it comes to your personal views, not to mention you don’t interact w VYW on a regular enough basis to be in touch w the current cultural zeitgeist.

    Not one mention in that entire article about women’s sexual frequency nor number of partners. Although admittedly I did only skim the thing. Journalism these days isn’t about telling the truth anymore.

  8. Is delay of marriage really the cause of incels and older virgins? You need to have some game in order to get married (pick-up, flirting, hook-up, relationship skills, etc). I dont know any girls who would jump into marriage after chatting online lol.

    Marriage is not an issue. Men staying soft, spineless boys, who blame everyone and anything for their unhappinness is an issue. Seriously, our generation is so soft, sometimes I think we need WW3 for it to toughen up a bit.

  9. I find it very plausible that men are getting laid far less now than ever (well men & women of course, two straight populations, the sex rate has to be equal by definition). Let’s exclude all gay sex for clarity on that one.

    I was a hard-case that couldn’t get laid in high school (I wasn’t high value, had shit confidence, no game, and on the rare occasion a girl did want to bang me, I didn’t believe it and certainly didn’t act on it).

    Now I’m no Brad Pitt, but I get laid regularly. Meh. It’s not that hard once you’re honest with yourself.

    It’s like if someone gave you a Plain Jane and told you to make her the most fuckable girl at the club or prepare her for a cover shoot. You wouldn’t just say “be yourself honey! Disney!” That’s a crock, hopefully everyone has figured that out by now. Selling dick is not much different than selling a shiny new car. Details, appearances, and emotions matter. There is a dance and it’s not “be yourself” – whatever kernel of truth exists there — which is brash irreverence and a dash of cockiness — not wearing sad-sack clothes and lazily not caring about your appearance and/ or life in general.

    I am a millenial, albeit an older one (nearly 31). Why do millenials get laid less? Should be obvious.

    1. Porn, internet, TV, video games. Solitary, instant-gratification, indoor activities. Hell, even in the 90s, dial-up porn and Super Nintendo blew away the 1970s versions … Sears catalogs and … Arcades? Hell you can meet bimbos in arcades in the 70s maybe. 2018? Forget about. 4k HD legion of hookers online to beat off to. And hyper-addictive TV and video games. Social media worship. >>> Greater focus on solitary time, anti-social, indoors, convenience. Laziness and pain aversion are very high.

    2. Instagram et. al, porn, & rise of Cable television. Repeating myself, but in addition to solitary indoor time, this has a second terrible effect. “Ultra high physical standards.” Dudes aren’t looking at the girl in 6th period Algebra or Psyc 101 and beating off to her (unless she looks like a dime). It’s all stick thin, massive boob girls on TV or porn. That’s the new “normal” sadly. Some dudes legit have ED at age 19/20 because they ‘porn-if-ied’ (which includes much cable TV currently) their brains. They can only get hard if a girl who looks like Alison Brie or Sofia Vergara is wearing underwear and making sex innuendos like they do so on TV. Same is at play for women, in reverse.

    3. Dating apps combine the worst of 1 & 2. It’s a nice little comfort bubble where rejection is minimized (at least direct rejection). So why go outside? Why go to the bar? Or leave the house? (this applies to men AND women). Why put yourself out there in stressful social situations? COMBINED WITH … swiping through 1000s of people in a week — you get that “one” hit from a 9 or a 10, then why even bother with the 7s? Or someone who doesn’t make you blow your wad instantly. Again, standards artificially rising due to the perceived “unlimited” choice. Marketing makes everyone believe they “deserve” a 10.5/10 man or woman, looks wise. Even though — if they looked at themselves in the mirror, LOL. Btw this is self-sabotage — personally I’d take a 7 or 8 who can fucks a 10 or is interesting over a 10 who fucks like a 2.

    So yeah. It’s mostly, in the 70s or 80s or hell even 90s, you had to … go outside and socialize. Even if you hated drinking, if you wanted a date you’d drag your ass to the bar — or an art gallery — or SOMETHING. Not peruse facebook and Insta to see what you’re “missing”.

    Again I’m no super-man, but I think if you looked at the dating marketplace …. no, Chad Thundercock doesn’t have a monopoly. First of all, many perceived “Chads” by incels probably aren’t the lotharios they think they are (some are) – they look good but by law of averages, many suck financially or are emotional toddlers (not uncommon among any group of males). I’m a dude and I need more than a pretty face long term — and I’m a dude. Women are the same. A fuck becomes boring eventually especially if they can’t fuck well.

    But it’s also just — like BD said — even a superman Grad A “Chad” or celebrity just doesn’t have the time or inclination even to fuck 10 different women a week.

    There’s a lot of hot women that just can’t find a man that does it for her, and become voluntarily celibate pretty much.

    It sounds the same as a kid complaining he didn’t get into a certain school because of “Affirmative Action” — no dude maybe 10 people on the cusp lost out because of that. Same with women. You just need to meet the grade, period. And you didn’t make the grade, if you can’t get laid. Trust me, if you’re not getting laid frequently, either A. you’re not hitting on women very much or B. You’re the male version of a “fat chick.” That hurts. Believe me, I’ve been there, and I still have some “pounds to lose” metaphorically speaking. If you haven’t been laid in a year, you’re the male version of a “fat chick”. Face facts, look in the mirror, because you CAN change to a rockstar lothario, you just need to start making changes & drop the ego.

  10. 1.BD,from your expirience.What do you think its the difference between a natural,a pua,an alpha 1.0?

    A natural is a guy who is more or less born with woman skills and doesn’t need to learn them like you and I had to. This is the guy who is having sex with all the hot girls in the high school by the time he’s about 16-17 years old, seemingly without effort, even if he’s not physically attractive.

    Alpha 1.0s can be PUAs and the reverse is true. They are not mutually exclusive. Some PUAs are Alpha 1.0s, some are betas, some are recovering betas, and so on.

    2.I mean you say that alpha males 1.0 are confident,but in terms of cold approaching,do you think a pua is better than an Alpha male 1.0 who doesnt know that Game and PUAs exist?

    See above. PUAs and Alpha 1.0s are not mutually exclusive.

    The question could be this,do you think that Alpha males 1.0 are already PUAs,instinctively or being a Pua is a notch above alpha male 1.0.

    Alpha Male 1.0s who decide to become PUAs have a natural edge because they’re already Alphas. Guys who are betas who decide to be PUAs have more work to do (that was me).

    Do you think The Game that guys learn from Other Puas(the game that Rsd Tyler or Todd teaches),is superior to the game the Alpha male 1.0 know from birth?

    Yes. Any game skills are better than zero game skills. Only naturals don’t need game advice. There are indeed many Alpha Male 1.0s who have really shitty game.

  11. Nightgamer you try to compare apples with oranges.

    Natural A 1.0s are born attractive, without putting any effort into it. PUA is more or less type of script that anyone can learn and can use in certain situations.  However not anyone can be  born tall and with good facial characteristics etc.

    You cannot compare the genetics and natural attitude that you are born with, with something that you can learn.  One of my best buddies- 1,95 cm tall great genetics, blue eyes, blond hair, well built,trained basketball in his teens and modeled during his university years.  The guy is typical Alpha 1 and have a serious girlfriend, when we go out the women are throwing themselves at him, yet I haven’t seen him fucking any of them, because it is not his thing.  He is extrovert and talkative- not shy at all- he had his share of like 30-40 girls in 3 years in the University, so he is not interested. He got stories for ONSs with different girls, since his school years. He was never sexless or in need to research/improve his game, his game is strong because he was never in bad position, this gives him confidence.

    I am the other side- not so handsome like him, shorter and with not so good facial characteristics, balding as well.. I need to put some effort/game to get the handsome girls home.When I broke up with my 10 year LTR, I was indeed sexless for 8 months. It was not fun for someone that is used to regular sex. I was rejected several times, so I put some effort to learn.

    I get results with talking and game, he gets results with just being there,without approaching. On the average I sleep with 3-5 new women each year, I try to keep a main girl and side girl all the time and I manage to do it without much effort in the last 4 years. My relationships last between 6 months and 1 year now. Sex happens on the second or third date or I move on. He on the other side is with the same girl for the last 4 years.

    The point of the article was, that instead bitching about it, the young men should do their thing as they please and work on themselves.

     

  12. Sorry BD, but you’re a bit of a dogmatist when it comes to your personal views, not to mention you don’t interact w VYW on a regular enough basis to be in touch w the current cultural zeitgeist.

    I interact with multiple VYW every month, and have for the last decade or so. I would bet $1000 that I interact with more VYW on a regular basis than you do.

    And if you think something is horseshit, present your scientific evidence backing your view and then lets analyze it. Don’t just skim something, call it horseshit and walk away. That’s immature and pathetic.

    You need to have some game in order to get married (pick-up, flirting, hook-up, relationship skills, etc).

    No you don’t. I see utterly gameless betas get married all the time, and you probably do too.

  13. Have to really start thanking BD at this point.

    Starting to have a lot of fun experiences.

    Every time I’ve gotten down I just have told myself to ‘keep going and put in the numbers.’

    I have a question, though.

    So, for a guy like me (hispanic) I notice that I more or less enjoy a certain amount of drama.

    After I have sex with a woman once, the only way for me to really get into having sex with her again is if there’s some kind of friction or ‘love story’ or whatever else.

    Typically it involves some kind of rule-making/love-declaration, then some kind of conflict (during which it’s a perfect ‘excuse’ to go sleep with someone else or take a break) and then making up.

    Is this a type of ToTH tendency, do you think? Or beta, or AM 1.0?

  14. Unless you’re a thrill of the hunt guy, most men would absolutely be thrilled with this arrangement.

    Yeah that’s how I am. Having an FB that you can have sex with a few times a week is pretty nice.

    Social media worship. >>> Greater focus on solitary time, anti-social, indoors, convenience. Laziness and pain aversion are very high.

    That’s exactly what has happened. A lot of incels (myself included when I was one) are often perfectly content with being on the internet jerking off to internet porn, being internet trolls, and complaining about their lives online all the time. Even if they have jobs.

  15. Caleb I’m noticing with a lot of these so called Alpha 1.0’s and club douche types that many of them aren’t Alpha at all. They’re really just loudmouth betas who beg for attention.

    In my eyes the cool betas are in fact more Alpha than them.. and are far more likely to be closer to being Alpha 2.0’s. And may in practice maybe without knowing it.

    And thank you for finally pointing out that 80/20 thing is silly. I’ve been saying that for a while.

    EVERYONE go watch the new Netflix documentary The American Meme. You will notice we have a cultural problem with internet culture. People are chasing fools gold fame on Instagram and such and that’s supposedly the new Alpha (Chad) at a glance in society AND THATS the shit that many of the (Incels) probably think is their only option and don’t want to.. or silly PUA’s. MEANWHILE totally not even seeing good shit like Caleb’s material, ARC’s Mode One, ETC.

    Than we’ve got another problem with many Incels who think they only need muscles (which help) and they get stuck in that and get involved with the Bodybuilding scene.. only to become GYMCEL’S

     

  16. Now I’m no Brad Pitt, but I get laid regularly. Meh. It’s not that hard once you’re honest with yourself.

    Seriously it isn’t if you just put some time into it. Because Alpha 1s are being more and more demonized by chicks and because chicks are now “allowed” to be just as sexual in their thoughts as dudes it is not difficult to have regular sex.

  17. https://fabiusmaximus.com/2018/11/25/sexual-activity-declining/

    Wham!

    https://share.icloud.com/photos/0CjX75I1PdaIVLmmS8sie4DIg

    Bam!

    https://share.icloud.com/photos/0vOzeeUdT0BVeaJHgMtFi2jAw

    Thank you, ma’am!

    There’s more where that came from, too. BD, if you are putting in more time than I am with very young to youngerish women, then you must be being willfully obtuse. Things have changed, they are changing, and they will come to a head at some point.

  18. Fact, who ever doesn’t think the 80/20 rules is true, is just not in the top 20.

    The fact that you can’t even fathom how it is correct just shows your lack of awareness. Maybe hang out with rock stars, billionaire sheiks and rappers more? Oh wait, you can’t get in.

    Why did pareto realize that 80% of the land in Italy was owned by 20%, we will never know. But, unfortunately, its one of those steady rules. Yes, there are growth spurts that rise all beta boats…but in the end, the curve is what it is.

    People underestimate the 80/20 rules and will forever. Its a bias. Look up the polls where they ask people how much the 1% own. It fits your bullshit rationalizations to the tee. Odd. Like how everyone thinks they are above avg.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2014/09/americans_have_no_idea_how_bad_inequality_is_new_harvard_business_school.html

    “Sex in a Lifetime: Sexual Behaviors in the United States by Lifetime Number of Sex Partners, 2006–2010”

    “However, among women aged 25 to 44 years, sexual activity group 2 (2–4 lifetime sex partners) was the most frequently reported sexual activity group (30.3%–30.9%), whereas for men aged 25 to 44 years, sexual activity group 4 (10–39 lifetime sex partners) was the most frequently reported (27.8%–34.2%).”
    The number of 40+ partners looks like its about four times more likely in a male. The skew is real.

  19. You remind me of Macron a little bit right now, BD. Manosphere conplainers are like the 80% in France getting absolutely shafted by the EU Cucks and crony corporatist shills, and whilst I am not one of them (I am in the top 20% just not the top 10,) I do sympathize with them. Meanwhile, all you do is condescend and double down on your nonmonagmy rhetoric like it’s all the fault of those evil, traditionalist MGTOWs and Alpha1.0’s who just want a healthy, functioning society and clearly defined gender roles.

    Get real. The crash is coming, and a lot of countries aren’t gonna make it out in one peace. Sexual inequality goes hand in hand with wealth inequality. The yellow vests are not a middle class uprising. They are a middle class male uprising. Connect the dots.

  20. the sex rate has to be equal by definition

    Take a hypothetical population of 10 men and 10 women. Super Chad bangs all 10 women, another bangs half of them, 2 more get 2 each, 1 gets 1, and 5 gets none. Further, each woman notches 2 counts.

    We necessarily have the same average number of partners,  but the spread (heh) couldn’t be much different.

  21. I think a sensible hypothesis would be this:

    Women require sex and women require attention.

    It is taboo for women to actively seek sex. It is not taboo for women to actively seek attention.

    Alpha males are much more valuable for sex. Both alpha and beta males are OK for attention.

    Before internet, smartphones etc. women would seek attention, get it from beta males and have sex with some of them.

    After internet, smartphones etc. women are getting much attention online, greatly diminishing their interest in face to face social interactions, beta males’ main path to sex. Alpha males’ paths to sex aren’t affected that much.

    Thoughts?

  22. Instead, my friends and I (at least most of them) just got older, improved our confidence, and ended up having sex with hot girls. We weren’t hopeless incels.

    I believe it’s about when and how long your T has been peaking.  Those early bloomer muscular guys didn’t get that way on accident.  Problem is now days that so many guys are walking around with low T.  Even the ones that don’t are not letting their T do it’s work.  Turning you into an animal pussy hunter.  They spend so much time jacking off to porn.  Which also seems to create unrealistic expectations and make’s it difficult to get turned on by normal flesh and blood chicks.  Then they see these Alpha guys picking up all the unrealistic Instagram models they jack off to (99% of real women don’t look like that) and get bent.  Either way, with all the guys I know who I would consider Alpha, you better hide your fucking dog if they’ve gone awhile without sex.  If they’re hot wife (most turn fat and ugly also which another issue) withholds they’ll grab the nearest ugly latin maid (Arnold).  They don’t worry about how hot a chick is.  A 3 becomes a 10 in that moment.  Beta males and Low level T guys seem to be much more picky and selective by nature as far as sex.  Not talking about relationships.  Alphas are obviously very selective as far as long term because they can be.

  23. Two things here are so patently laughable that they make zero sense and constitute the exact opposite of reality:

     Statistically, virginity rates are higher with men who still live at home with their parents.

    This is nonsense. Most people lose their virginity while still living with their parents. Is anyone still a virgin by the time they’re 18? If yes, it has NOTHING to do with the fact that you still live with your parents. I lost my virginity at 15, for example.

    If you’re still a virgin as a high school graduate it is because of something within your psychology that is completely external to your living arrangements. No one can use their living arrangements as an excuse for being a virgin when most of us lost our virginities in high school or junior high.

    the primary cause of the rise in sexlessness is simply the increasing delay of marriage.

    What??? Is this the 1950s? Since when does unmarried = sexless? Who commissioned this garbage study? Evangelical Christians? When did “I’m celibate because I’m not married” become a thing again?

    Reality is the exact opposite. Sexlessness is largely caused by marriage. At this point, there’s not much difference between a wedding ring and a purity ring.

    The primary cause of the rise in sexlessness is simply the increasing delay of divorce.

    But this delay has its roots in men fearing that they will lose their children.

     

     

     

  24. A major reason sex has declined is because most men have not adapted their sexual strategy from the old books (beta bucks) strategy to the new books (alpha fucks).

    These beta males (most men) would be more accurate if they said they are not getting laid because they are obsolete products in the current sexual marketplace.

    I recall Rollo mentioning a few times in videos that the in the modern west the “alpha fucks ” strategy is the more practical method men have to succeed sexually with women in an era where women’s beta bucks provisioning is already covered by her own financial independence and career along with child support etc.

  25. On a somewhat related note. BD, Have you been getting requests about the thot audit. I think it’s hilarious that these INCEL dudes are snitches on these chicks. lol On the one hand they should kick in for their taxes like everyone else, but I just can’t see myself doing it. Not getting laid, while these women are getting paid must really get suck for these guys!

  26. A lot of the women I have sex with seem to have sex only with me, or very rarely with other men. This is in accordance with BD’s theory about women behaviour. Even though I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in them being sexually exclusive to me. If the subject arises I tend to encourage them to have safe sex with other people.

    I also meet them only once per week maximum. So in fact if they were with a beta, 3 (minimum) to 5 women would have sex 1 time per week or more with the 3 to 5 men, but instead they have sex only with me. Sometimes my total rotation is up to 10 different women who I fuck each less frequently, and they still seem to be sexually exclusive to me…

    So because of women behaviour, even if I have no interest in their sexual exclusivity, most of the time I “block” for myself a quantity of sexual availability good for 3 to 10 men, or even more if each women were to act very socio-sexual like me and had sex with multiple guys every week.

  27. If you’re still a virgin as a high school graduate it is because of something within your psychology that is completely external to your living arrangements. No one can use their living arrangements as an excuse for being a virgin when most of us lost our virginities in high school or junior high.

    I agree with most of this. Especially these days, most high school boys are around enough stuff that tricks them into thinking that there are things that are better than sex: Namely, messing with people on the internet and internet pornography.

    Not gonna lie, if incel message boards and pornhub were around 20 years ago, it would be all over for me. I’d be right there with everyone else at incels.me who literally believe that the world is against them. All the technology we have is really cool, and allows me to make money online which is awesome, but it comes at a price.

    If the gen Xers and especially the Boomers were around all this technology, they wouldn’t have a chance.

    the primary cause of the rise in sexlessness is simply the increasing delay of marriage.
    The primary cause of the rise in sexlessness is simply the increasing delay of divorce.

    I’d say it is neither and that marriage has nothing to do with it. To me its three things:

    -Internet pornography which more accessible than ever is influencing boys and men to not pursue sex and instead just watch porn where they can watch chicks who look NOTHING like the chicks they see in their daily lives having sex. It messes with the reward system of the brain.

    -A culture that revolves around and lionizes trolling, spectating, and consuming instead of building, acting, and saving.

    -More collectivism and toxic group mentalities than has been seen in at least half a century. In the realm of incels, if you go on any given incel online community (I should know, I was right there with Elliot Rodger when he was on PUAHate) and calmly tell them pretty much what BD was saying in this article, they’ll attack you ruthlessly, calling you a “normie” and then they’ll probably doxx you and troll you to oblivion. I for one am trying to help the incels who legit want help.

     

    All that being said, I actually do agree with some of the incels’ “black pill” views. 80-20 is pretty damn accurate, and I’d actually argue that it is more like 90-10. I’d go further and also argue that it has ALWAYS been this way.

    Not everyone can be alpha enough to pursue sex and very few women are faithful or care about being faithful. This used to trigger me to death, but once I understood the futility of TMM and monogamy in general, I changed my mind. This is a very good thing, especially for dudes who want to pursue Alpha 2.

    Cuz What incels (and MGTOW and other toxic manosphere people) don’t understand is that it is very easy to be part of that 10% and once you do it is very easy to get with any kind of chick whether they are the e-thot who charges men for nude pics so they can pay for college or overweight single moms who are desperate to find someone to replace their kids’ father.

    It’s ALL there for the taking, peeps. Chicks are now “allowed” to act just as horny as men. You can talk about sex with chicks more and more and more now. Its a really stupid idea to believe that they ALL think that ALL sex is rape or whatever (a very common observation that incels have; incels tend to think in terms of blanket statements, at least the ones I have interacted with).

  28. The sequel to this is that in my opinion, and because women seek attention more than sex, the core problem is Social Programming slut shaming women who have sex with more than one guy at any given time.
    The next problem, which is a continuation of the first, is that society encourage women to spend most of their time and energy in the pursuit of carriers which have nothing to do with maximising their sexual availability, quite the contrary it often decreases their sexual availability.

    In my opinion, Social Programming should valorize prostitution as the most respectable  carrier path for women. Instead of stigmatizing this profession. Social programming should also valorize women who enjoy having sex with multiple guys, as successful and desirable women, the same way it valorizes men who have sex with multiple women.

    The idea that sexual exclusivity from women is  valuable and respectable is the core problem. Internet (fb, instagram, dating sites, etc…), more women studying and working office jobs, it all worsens this core problem.

  29. Wham!

    Much better; providing actual data to back up your argument. Now we can actually have a discussion.

    Your first just link confirmed what I already said, that young people are having less sex today. Your second link didn’t have a source, nor could I find it with a Google search.

    Your third link was interesting. It shows that in Finland (a post-feminist culture), the amount of people with more than two sexual partners dropped more for young men than it did for young women. Granted. But I don’t see how that massively contradicts anything I reported in the article (that the 80/20 ratio of men/women is bullshit). I said there was a bell curve. But it certainly is a good demonstration of your point, at least for a post-feminist culture like Finland.

    If you look carefully, another indication of that chart is that more younger women are are fucking older men rather than younger men, something I’ve said before is an increasing trend.

    Fact, who ever doesn’t think the 80/20 rules is true, is just not in the top 20.

    The fact that you can’t even fathom how it is correct just shows your lack of awareness. Maybe hang out with rock stars, billionaire sheiks and rappers more? Oh wait, you can’t get in.

    Rock stars, billionaire sheiks, and rappers are not the top 20% of men; they are a tiny fraction of the top 1%, so you just blew your own argument. (If you want to say there is a 99/1 instead of an 80/20, then I don’t disagree.)

    Before internet, smartphones etc. women would seek attention, get it from beta males and have sex with some of them.

    After internet, smartphones etc. women are getting much attention online, greatly diminishing their interest in face to face social interactions, beta males’ main path to sex. Alpha males’ paths to sex aren’t affected that much.

    Thoughts?

    I agree completely. The attention whoring aspect of things like Instagram and Tinder is one of the direct causes of young women having less sex today the same way porn is one of the direct causes of young men having less sex.

    This is nonsense. Most people lose their virginity while still living with their parents.

    The data I sourced doesn’t say otherwise. It just says those who are still virgins past 18 are disproportionately still living at home.

    Is anyone still a virgin by the time they’re 18?

    Fuck yes! Millions of people. Not everyone is like you or me.

    If yes, it has NOTHING to do with the fact that you still live with your parents.

    Both the statistical data and my personal experience in talking to men about this disagree with you.

    Since when does unmarried = sexless?

    Since talking about gameless beta males in an unregulated sexual marketplace like today. Gameless betas are indeed more likely to get laid (or more likely to get laid sooner in life) if they have easy access to marriage. I don’t like it, but the right-wingers are indeed correct about that one.

    BD, Have you been getting requests about the thot audit.

    This silly thot audit It just goes to show how today’s right-wingers are NOT for small government, and almost every time a right-winger complains about government being too big, he’s completely full of shit.

    (Jesus. Don’t men have better things to do? Fuck.)

  30. @BD

    As a conclusion, I would argue that your advices have a side effect to push in the direction of decreasing the overall amount of sex people are having in general, especially the advices of having sex with multiple women meeting each only once per week unless OLTR, which works great to increase the amount of sex for the aspiring alpha 2.0 by the way, knowing that women can go without sex over long period of time and tend to have sex mostly with one guy at a time, and only very rarely with other people if ever.

  31. As a conclusion, I would argue that your advices have a side effect to push in the direction of decreasing the overall amount of sex people are having in general

    Probably accurate, not that it’s relevant since I’m not famous and 99.9% of humanity will never hear my advice.

  32. Meanwhile, all you do is condescend and double down on your nonmonagmy rhetoric like it’s all the fault of those evil, traditionalist MGTOWs and Alpha1.0’s

    No, that would be Jack. It doesn’t bother me in the least if people choose monogamy.

    who just want a healthy, functioning society and clearly defined gender roles.

    Again, fine with me. But I don’t care about society.

    Get real.

    I am.

    The crash is coming

    Yes, as I’ve been saying for years.

    and a lot of countries aren’t gonna make it out in one peace.

    Yes, as I’ve been saying for years.

    Sexual inequality goes hand in hand with wealth inequality.

    Maybe. Don’t care. But if you want to get angry about it, have fun with that. I choose happiness.

  33. This silly thot audit It just goes to show how today’s right-wingers are NOTfor small government

    I would argue that the #thotaudit crew lean just as left as Sanders nuthuggers in that they think government will solve everything. They are part of the same crew who still believe in arranged marriages, which is a very statist concept.

    Finland (a post-feminist culture), the amount of people with more than two sexual partners dropped more for young men than it did for young women. Granted. But I don’t see how that massively contradicts anything I reported in the article (that the 80/20 ratio of men/women is bullshit).

    It shows that in places like Finland that have been taken over by girl power that women are becoming the sexual selectors just like men were back in the day. It’s gonna suck for dudes, as they’re gonna have to deal with what chicks had to deal with back when dudes ruled everything.

  34. First of all the article suggests that the delay of marriage through longer school years and living at home are the main factors for having less sex. Well even if that is true to some degree the datas provided by a side whose main mission is as follows is not surprizing at all: “The mission of the Institute for Family Studies (IFS) is to strengthen marriage and family life, and advance the well-being of children through research and public education.” I mean their agenda is obvious and it wouldn’t surprize me if they are backed by religious constituions and conservative circles.

    But anyway, I have quoted a part that I think is very important to the whole topic itself:

    And this was 30 fucking years ago. You didn’t see me or my friends bitch about “Chads,” muscular guys, PUAs, or Alpha Males. We didn’t bitch and moan about how we were all fucked and there was nothing we could do, and how we were doomed to just jerk off to porn for the rest of our lives, or how there was no way we could ever marry a hot girl or blah blah blah blah. Seriously, not once did me or any of my horny-but-virgin friends ever have any conversation like this.

    Of course you wouldn’t bitch or complain about it, most of us, born before say 1980, have not complained. Why? Because we didn’t know shit about red pill, hypergamy, Chads, Stacy, 80:20 rule, Alpha males etc. How could we? There was no internet around that time. Nobody knew about PUA either because there was no market for it. And even when we got rejected or went years without having sex we were blue pilled as fuck anyways because we believed in Hollywood movies, we believed in being the nice guy who gets the Prom Queen and more importantly most of us probably never even thought that women liked to have sex with many guys. We were told they were waiting for the right guy and those who didn’t were just very few exceptions.

    And we didn’t have to deal with internet porn, dating apps, Instagram, Tinder. In a way many blue pilled men were happier in their lives because they were dreamers and they were told to graduate from College first, because there was plenty of time to find a woman later. Being an incel wasn’t an isssue in the 80s and 90s, it was a barely known term.

    One more thing though: the 80:20 is real imo. It doesn’t necessarily mean 20% of men fuck 80% of women for real but it implies more that 80% of all women (if not 90%) actually DESIRE 20% of all men and thanks to dating apps this might actually decrease chances for the average Joe to even get a plain Jane, since we know that men fuck anything, especially Chads. So why would Jane fuck Joe, when she can fuck Chad..

  35. Of course you wouldn’t bitch or complain about it, most of us, born before say 1980, have not complained. Why? Because we didn’t know shit about red pill, hypergamy, Chads, Stacy, 80:20 rule, Alpha males etc. How could we? There was no internet around that time. Nobody knew about PUA either because there was no market for it. And even when we got rejected or went years without having sex we were blue pilled as fuck anyways because we believed in Hollywood movies

    Then are you saying this problem is mostly one of perception and not reality?

    One more thing though: the 80:20 is real imo. It doesn’t necessarily mean 20% of men fuck 80% of women

    Um, yes it does. That’s exactly what it means.

    it implies more that 80% of all women (if not 90%) actually DESIRE 20% of all men and thanks to dating apps this might actually decrease chances for the average Joe to even get a plain Jane, since we know that men fuck anything, especially Chads. So why would Jane fuck Joe, when she can fuck Chad.

    Then you’re arguing that today’s young women would rather literally go without sex than fuck a normal Joe. I don’t agree but it’s certainly possible. I think, as I said above, that today’s young women don’t need sex as much because they can get their validation over Tinder/Instagram instead of sex, not because they want to fuck Chad so badly that they’ll go without sex if they can’t get him.

    As I’ve said in my books, most VYW desire sex primary because of the attention it garners them from men. (It’s the older women who like sex because it feels good.) If dating apps and social media provide shitloads of attention from men, actual sex becomes less important.

  36. Then are you saying this problem is mostly one of perception and not reality?

    It’s a problem of modern time. If men did have those informations and research opportunities in the past then they would have been red pilled then. The only difference is women in the 80s did have zero opportunites to meet men online and get validation, so I guess therefore men would have had less reasons to complain about back then.

    I mean we can agree that women and men have naturally always been the same, the only thing that has changed is technology and therefore it has heavily influenced our daily lives and society. 30 years ago this topic would have never been a topic at all, because there was no place or reason to discuss it for the reasons I mentioned in my 1st comment.

    Um, yes it does. That’s exactly what it means

    I know. But it still affects many men who aren’t in the top 20 and still doesn’t get pussy because even  many average women would rather wait than settle for sex with men they don’t desire sexually.

     

    I think, as I said above, that today’s young women don’t need sex as much because they can get their validation over Tinder/Instagram instead of sex, not because they want to fuck Chad so badly that they’ll go without sex if they can’t get him.

     

    Sure, this is also true.

     

    As I’ve said in my books, most VYW desire sex primary because of the attention it garners them from men. (It’s the older women who like sex because it feels good.) If dating apps and social media provide shitloads of attention from men, actual sex becomes less important.

    VYW: I am not familiar with this term.  Well anyway, I guess this applies to all women, so this is not something that I wouldn’t agree with.

     

  37. The comments lately have been just, I dunno, something between lit and OMG how did you swallow that much buffer?

    But this delay has its roots in men fearing that they will lose their children.

    Okay, that’s part of it, but it’s not a fear.  It’s gonna happen even if you are a choir boy.

    You improve your odds if you simply don’t marry them.  Less child support too, and 100% less divorce fees.

  38. I’ve been following this story for a while and have read through this article multiple times since it was first published. Here’s the part I’m not sure about: “The top 20% of unmarried men are having about the same share of total sexual activity or sexual partnerings as has been the case for decades.”

    It just doesn’t pass the smell test.

    Every societal indicator points towards increasing hypergamy: dating apps. The demystification of sex. Feminism. Female freedom. Increasing wages for women.

    I realize that Lyman Stone is probably marginally better at analyzing data than me, but something just isn’t adding up here. Looking forward to more analysis.

  39. dating apps. The demystification of sex. Feminism. Female freedom. Increasing wages for women.

    Yeah, well. It’s not all gloom and doom. Dating apps on the whole are a GOOD thing. And I don’t see what’s wrong with female freedom. I’m all for women having the freedom to have sex with whoever they want. I’ll just try to make sure I’m one of the guys they want. Increased wages? Less excuses for provider hunting. And the feminism f-word. Well, there’s a strain of feminism out there that I can support, a sort of non-pc, sex positive version. Admittedly a minority viewpoint, but I’m all for it.

  40. It just doesn’t pass the smell test.
    Every societal indicator points towards increasing hypergamy: dating apps. The demystification of sex. Feminism. Female freedom. Increasing wages for women.

    Two thoughts:

    Maybe the hypothesis of hypergamy postulated by certain sphere types is specious, and maybe what you smell is that hypothesis?

    Even if it is true (the data is what it is), how does that particular hypothesis advance your mission and your goals?  If you were completely unaware would it change anything?

     

     

  41. On the cultural change between the 80’s and 2010’s I’d point to a difference between “The Terminator” from 1984 and “Terminator Genisys” from 2015. In the 1984 film Kyle Reese comes to 1984 for his oneitis. He fights for and saves Sarah Connor and pours his heart out to her, “I came back through time for you, Sarah.” 1984 Kyle is loved by Sarah for that. Sarah kisses Kyle first. We get a love scene showing where the kiss leads.

    In 2015 Kyle comes back and is saved by Sarah. Sarah is now a strong independent woman able to take care of herself having been taught to do so by her robot terminator father who took over for her orphaned parents killed by a different terminator sent to kill her as a child.

    This 2015 version of Sarah finds the far less ragged and strung out Kyle wanting, “So you’re the man I’ve been waiting for all my life?” 2015 Kyle is berated and there are no love scenes though Kyle and Sarah are naked together quite quickly after meeting (far faster than in 1984’s film and before Kyle can express any love for strong independent Sarah.)

    What’s the saying? “The past is another country. They do things differently there.”

  42. BD, one thing that I notice, me being from a rural small-town area, is that you-BD, typically see things from the perspective of men living in a metropolis.  I think this incel/alpha stuff is more distinct in small towns.  I’ve noticed when I go to a metropolis and go night game which is how I game, getting women is so easy.  However in my small town it is much more difficult.  And ugly women in my town have easy access to sexy alpha males.

    I have 4 currently, 1mltr, but I’ve had to step up my game and appearance much more than I think I would have in a metropolis.  In small towns like I live, the single women have come to accept the fact that they will be fucking guys that all their friends or women they know have fucked before.  So essentially its their observations and word of mouth.  They pick the guys who they actually notice are high-drama alpha 1.0’s, or guys they notice have been with lots of women in town.  Typically they go for guys who fuck lots of women in our town, or who they have heard stories of other females bragging about having sex with.  This means in small towns, any decent women are indeed all fighting for and fucking the alphas almost exclusively.  I’ve used social proof and word of mouth to get my spot as one of the desired, but before I got to this point, I see and could agree with the hopeless outlook of most incels.

    I know you have stated many times that living in a low-populated area isn’t smart and is my own fault and I agree, but that doesn’t discredit many of the loud voices online screaming about their incelness.  Many of them may be stuck in just such an area as I describe, and while that is their own fault, the scenario they believe in, is much more real than in larger cities.  You might be amazed at the low-quality females that alphas in small towns will fuck just because its someone new or they are bored.  This leaves damn near all of the single women thinking they deserve an alpha and they simply get passed around with the alphas.

    When I say I am one of the desired, I still am not at the top.  The ones at the top are severely wreckless alpha 1’s that are constantly in jail, fights, or bad financial situations, none of that is desirable to me.  Therefore some of these women, even ugly ones, are untouchable even to me.  They so desire the crazy, dramatic lifestyle of these alpha 1’s, that a true Alpha 2.0 is simply too boring/responsible for them.  Indeed they cycle through these men very quickly all while complaining about tons of drama they are having, but secretly apparently that’s what they love.

  43. Here’s the part I’m not sure about: “The top 20% of unmarried men are having about the same share of total sexual activity or sexual partnerings as has been the case for decades.”

    It just doesn’t pass the smell test.

    I don’t disagree on a technical level and I’m reasonably sure that in some regions, of the young women having sex (which has decreased!) those women are probably having sex with more partners than women from years ago.

    I just think it’s not nearly as much as you all think (as the data indicates) because of all the cultural stuff you see in your face everyday (dating apps, Instagram, etc.) As has been said in this thread already, these things give the illusion of sexual activity when there isn’t as much as you think.

    Even if it is true (the data is what it is), how does that particular hypothesis advance your mission and your goals?  If you were completely unaware would it change anything

    That. That’s the overall point here. WHO GIVES A FUCK? GO OUT AND FUCK HOT GIRLS.

    BD, one thing that I notice, me being from a rural small-town area, is that you-BD, typically see things from the perspective of men living in a metropolis.  I think this incel/alpha stuff is more distinct in small towns.  I’ve noticed when I go to a metropolis and go night game which is how I game, getting women is so easy.  However in my small town it is much more difficult.

    Correct. I’ve said exactly that hundreds of times. If your woman life is important to you, you need to move away from your small town and closer to a big one. Period. No excuses.

    I know you have stated many times that living in a low-populated area isn’t smart and is my own fault and I agree, but that doesn’t discredit many of the loud voices online screaming about their incelness.

    It does because the vast majority of men, thus the vast majority of incels, live in or near big cities.

  44. As has already been stated women want attention, and that’s why they would have sex with unattractive men pre-technology. With technology they have become adept in compartmentalizing. They get their attention, validation and free food fix with betas and their sex fix with alphas. Which leads to…

    So why would Jane fuck Joe, when she can fuck Chad..

    It’s pretty fucking obvious from a female standpoint. Don’t know why guys get worked up over this. If men had the choice of fucking a hot skinny girl, why would they have sex with a fat and or ugly girl?

    Are chads taking sex away from incels?

    Incels were never in the running. Chads are taking casual sex away from betas. But not really because most betas dislike casual sex anyway. They prefer “meaningful” relationships. You can’t have something taken away that you never wanted. It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t sting to find out through the internet that you are deemed sexually unattractive though.

    A better question to ask is if betas are becoming incels based on all this “new” data. I’m just not seeing it. Maybe a very small fraction are. The rest will just go through the typical dinner dating/serial monogamy/getting cheated on/marriage/divorce grinder.

    All these guys saying that this will all come to a head. No, it won’t. Society will continue like this indefinitely, with a few mass shootings here and there, but that’s it.

  45. It does because the vast majority of men, thus the vast majority of incels, live in or near big cities.

    Ok so do you believe the concentration of incels is the same in large populations, roughly, as in smaller?  Because from what I think I’m seeing, there are a higher concentration of incels in lower-populated areas.  My thought process is that a larger portion of incels complaining online, are from lower-populated areas?  It’s only speculation, do you disagree?

  46. @ Hollywood. I thought small towns were conservative, and that everyone got married young. And that all the hot girls move out to the bigger cities/coasts. A bunch of men in a small town not getting laid or married? All the women share a few men, also means that the guys share all the same women over and over. Just can’t picture your scenario, but I guess anything’s possible.

  47. I don’t know…

    The only thing I got out of this is that beta’s “get the girl” by promising monogamy (they just aren’t doing that until later, hence why they get laid less), and beta’s kiss women’s asses on the internet which makes it less beneficial for the girl to go out and have sex because she’s getting her attention fix elsewhere.

    There seems to be a pattern here with beta men shooting themselves and every other dude in the foot.

    Everyone seems to forget that the vast majority of sex most people get is during the NRE phase of an LTR/marriage.

  48. If your woman life is important to you, you need to move away from your small town and closer to a big one. Period

    Not all big towns are the same.

    I went to a conference last week in a city that is barely larger than the one I live in but a couple of hundred miles away.   By doing nothing other than changing locations, my Tinder and Bumble blew up.  I had more matches and productive  TEP in three days then I had in three years back home.

    If I could have stayed there a couple of days longer I might have never left.  Plus the average women there were substantially hotter than the hottest women back home.

    Maybe it’s the bait, maybe it’s the pond, but BDs bait works better in certain ponds.

  49. @Duke,

    Yes I wasn’t completely clear.  Some of them do settle down for 2-3 years max, often it’s more like 6 month relationships.  I don’t see many of them go back to their ex’s repeatedly, but yes many do go back 1 or 2 times.

    Small towns are not what you think.  Conservative, yes, but there is nothing else to do around here for entertainment, so sex is how they pass the time often.  Sex and drama.  My friends and I comment how nasty it is around here as far as knowing several people personally who have slept with the person you are sleeping with.

    While I have 4 women I see, only 1 has been seeing me less than 2 years.  And yes, when they lsnfte me at times its for a guy one of my other women has been with before, however with these women, I am basically the only one they always come back to and that’s because I follow the Alpha 2.0 philosphy.  But yes in a way you are right, I am sharing some of my women at times with some of the same men.  I call this place a cesspool.  Not exactly happy with my situation, so I’m working to change it.  Regardless, I think these kinds of towns likely have a higher concentration of incels, but I guess I don’t have any data to back that up.

    I do know of some incels, one is my friend, and I advise him sometimes but around here it’s brutal. I can see where these incels are coming from. Ugly women only want the average guys for attention and money, but don’t allow those guys any sex. The ugly women here can go get sex from guys that hot women also consider hot. And like you said, the hot women move out to bigger cities, so ugly, fat, women here, often get really good looking guys. That leaves average guys with no pussy.

  50. A trend I’ve noticed is that whenever some alpha male 2.0 blogger writes a blog post or thread in the manosphere/red pill forums about his MLTR or OLTR he immediately gets slammed in the comments for being a cuck by all the other red pill guys.

    I understand them choosing to remain monogamous but I don’t get why these guys have such a visceral reaction to *other* men talking about their non monogamous lifestyles.

    The irony is that there are many muslim fundamentalists who will call these monogamous red pill guys cucks for not forcing their girlfriends/wives to wear a veil or headscarf….

  51. To everyone that says BD is wrong, and the 80/20 rule is true think again…

    long story short, I’m a good looking dude I look like Guy Pierce in his 20’s. I had zero game but apparently since I’m a “Chad”. I must be getting laid right I’m the 20%. Wrong my game sucked, had no outcome independence. Lurked on to BD’s website and took his game approach and practiced what he preaches and my lay jumped up. Game plays a big role.

    http://blackdragonblog.com/2012/09/02/do-looks-matter/

    read this. It’s true from my perspective. Yes the economy does play a role in sex and marriage.

    Now question to @Blackdragon. Do you think Social Media is the “porn addiction” issue of woman (this is on topic) . In my humble opinion I think it is. I think it’s due to dopamine release from likes which activate the same area of the brain that are activated when winning money or doing Coke(articles can be found online) .

    This can explain a factor of a *slight* decrease in woman dating. That leads to a decrease of sex which does affect the Sex Market. This in turn feeds into the delusion of 80/20% rule making it seem a reality when’s it’s just a myth henceforth not a causation. Note this is hypothetical and just one factor there are much more like you said.

     

    Just to give  the 80/20% rule guys preaching this MYTH reading this. It’s sounds like people in Medieval ages claiming  that death from from the plague is “The work of witches and demons!!” No…. it was many factors from infection due to bacteria from rats coming from trade boats in Asia (which carried fleas) that reproduced successfully in Europe due to mass killing of cats in Europe and tons of garbage. So there are many factors not 1!!

  52. The only thing I got out of this is that beta’s “get the girl” by promising monogamy (they just aren’t doing that until later, hence why they get laid less), and beta’s kiss women’s asses on the internet which makes it less beneficial for the girl to go out and have sex because she’s getting her attention fix elsewhere.
    There seems to be a pattern here with beta men shooting themselves and every other dude in the foot.

    I see an increase in the ability to get sex.  In my experience women are craving sex from suitable candidates at an increased rate and will do anything to get it.  And are in turn much more clingy than ever before.  Women have gone nuts..  There seems to be a shortage of Alpha’s and its like black Friday for women..   I guess its the internet causing this.

  53. I do know of some incels, one is my friend, and I advise him sometimes but around here it’s brutal. I can see where these incels are coming from. Ugly women only want the average guys for attention and money, but don’t allow those guys any sex. The ugly women here can go get sex from guys that hot women also consider hot. And like you said, the hot women move out to bigger cities, so ugly, fat, women here, often get really good looking guys. That leaves average guys with no pussy.

    How small of a town are we talking? I’m in a town of about 120k and don’t really see this.

    Night game sucks with a town this size (see the same women every night), and online game is out of the question, but day game and social circle game (which is what I’m decent at) are not really a problem to get average/cute gals for me or my friends. (hot girls are somewhat rare here)

    Hell a friend of mine, no joke, weighs 430 lbs and gets below average girls and has 2 FB‘s on rotation.

  54. How small of a town are we talking? I’m in a town of about 120k and don’t really see this.

     

    11K  Nearest metropolis is 3 hours away.
    Nearest town of 120k is 1 hour away.

    Can you advise me as to where you would turn for daygame advice online? I need to work on this.

  55. 11K  Nearest metropolis is 3 hours away.Nearest town of 120k is 1 hour away.

    Holy shit that’s small.

    Can you advise me as to where you would turn for daygame advice online? I need to work on this.

    I would have no idea. I’m in sales and just naturally talk to everyone all the time no matter where I’m at.

    I’ve never looked for daygame advice.

    I sure as shit don’t turn women’s heads…but get me talking and I do alright.

  56. The reason lots of incels dont have sex is because they are weak, pathetic, pussified betas that do all the wrong things towards women (get oneitis, friendzoned, declare love to girls they never even talked with, are socially awkward spineless soy boys, feminist men etc etc etc)

    Chads have nothing to do with that. Women like masculine, decisive, strong, confident men, its not their fault (most of the time) that they fit the bill

  57. The standard MGTOW/incel/internet loser line of “20% of the men are getting 80% of the sex” is false.If it were true, these 80% would have to be having sex twice a day, every day, without stopping, to maintain these numbers.

    Correct.  While attraction by women towards men might be skewed to this extent, actual fucking is not.  It is just not physically possible.

    There have been even more extreme numbers put out.  The most sordid combination of Incel/Angry at the world/depressed/never got out into the real world I have ever seen was the lunatic Rob Fedders.  He insisted that the number was 95/5 (i.e. that 95% of women were having sex with 5% of men).   That is insane, as that would mean that each apartment building would have one apartment out of every 40 or so apartments with 50 women lined up outside of it, waiting their turn. This would be a visible norm, but obviously is not.

    So yes, while attraction is skewed to the 80/20 number, actual fucking is not (solely for logistical/stamina reasons).

     

  58. Ok so do you believe the concentration of incels is the same in large populations, roughly, as in smaller?  Because from what I think I’m seeing, there are a higher concentration of incels in lower-populated areas.  My thought process is that a larger portion of incels complaining online, are from lower-populated areas?  It’s only speculation, do you disagree?

    I have no idea. I just know that there are more incels in a city of 3 million than there are in a town of 35,000, thus the vast majority of incels bitching on the internet are city-dwellers, not guys in small towns as you implied.

    A trend I’ve noticed is that whenever some alpha male 2.0 blogger writes a blog post or thread in the manosphere/red pill forums about his MLTR or OLTR he immediately gets slammed in the comments for being a cuck by all the other red pill guys.

    Yup. I was challenged on this when I spoke at the 21 Convention. The response is very simple. You just say to the guy calling you a cuck (who is either monogamous or isn’t getting laid at all), “Okay, cool. How many women have you have sex with in the past 60 days? Let’s compare to my number. And how hot would most men think these women are if we showed them pics? Let me show you pics of mine.”

    When comparing these two things with you it becomes pretty obvious who the Alpha is and who the beta is in the conversation. It’s actually fun.

    long story short, I’m a good looking dude I look like Guy Pierce in his 20’s. I had zero game but apparently since I’m a “Chad”. I must be getting laid right I’m the 20%. Wrong my game sucked, had no outcome independence. Lurked on to BD’s website and took his game approach and practiced what he preaches and my lay jumped up. Game plays a big role.

    Yup. As I’ve said many times, I have personally met and have coached really good-looking dudes who can’t get laid or have a really difficult time getting laid.

    Do you think Social Media is the “porn addiction” issue of woman (this is on topic) . In my humble opinion I think it is.

    Yes. Social media (and I include online dating apps in there) is to young, modern-day women what porn is to young, modern-day men.

    I see an increase in the ability to get sex.  In my experience women are craving sex from suitable candidates at an increased rate and will do anything to get it.  And are in turn much more clingy than ever before.  Women have gone nuts..  There seems to be a shortage of Alpha’s and its like black Friday for women..   I guess its the internet causing this.

    ABSOLUTELY.

    It is easier to get laid today for the man willing to do the things necessary to become even a low-end Alpha Male now more than any other time in all of human history. That’s why the complaining is so pathetic.

  59. You just say to the guy calling you a cuck

    Stop right there!

    If I’ve ever seen a dead to rights  tell of an insecure and angry man who is projecting like a busted fire hydrant, it was someone who used “cuck” like that in a sentence.

    Fuck that guy.

  60. Wrong my game sucked, had no outcome independence. 

    A lot of it seems to boil down to inuring yourself to the pain of rejection. Just keep going no matter what.

     

  61. To everyone that says BD is wrong, and the 80/20 rule is true think again…
    long story short, I’m a good looking dude I look like Guy Pierce in his 20’s. I had zero game but apparently since I’m a “Chad”. I must be getting laid right I’m the 20%. Wrong my game sucked, had no outcome independence. Lurked on to BD’s website and took his game approach and practiced what he preaches and my lay jumped up. Game plays a big role.

    I don’t mean to burst your bubble but that does not disprove the 80:20 rule at all. Being good looking doesn’t make you a “Chad” and not a top 20% man. I call myself good looking too but I have seen how women react and behave around very attractive men, they become like little girls and you don’t have to put any work. It has happened to me too at times but not regularly. But I have wittnessed hot females going after my older cousin when he was in his prime (lookswise) and I tell you that was something else. One has to be a real creep to fuck it up with women who basically beg you for attention. I actually think most hot guys don’t even have or need real game, they just smile at best and that’s it. Once a woman finds out that he is boring, she has already slept with him anyway. To this day I have never heard any woman calling Brad Pitt charming, witty or funny. But they have all called him hot.

  62. “Now please, for fuck’s sake, stop complaining like a baby and instead get to work on your life so you can be happier. ”

    All the complaining men do online or in real life could be  energy used into making themselves better. Stop bitching about not getting pussy and go make yourself someone girls want to fuck. That simple. It’s not that hard the competition is pathetic.

  63. Women have gone nuts..  There seems to be a shortage of Alpha’s and its like black Friday for women..   I guess its the internet causing this. Stop bitching about not getting pussy and go make yourself someone girls want to fuck. That simple. It’s not that hard the competition is pathetic.

    LMAO I agree. It’s pretty much like shooting fish in a barrel at this point. I still believe in 80/20 but it is stupid easy to be part of that 20%. You don’t even need a lot of money nowadays since chicks are told to make money instead of rely on dudes for it which is awesome.

    And yeah the competition is piss poor now. Especially if you are nonwhite (and ESPECIALLY if you are black). Seriously if you are a brotha all you need to do is not be needy or belligerent and you are GOOD ALL DAY (especially nowadays since it is not “higher value” to be black nowadays lol).

    I have seen how women react and behave around very attractive men, they become like little girls and you don’t have to put any work.

    Absolutely. There’s another blog I used to read called Strength by Sonny and this theory was pretty much proven on his blog. Sonny is proof that appearance is very relevant when it comes to being a dude hunting down chicks. You MUST look your best, you MUST have good social skills, you MUST have good value to offer (either a cool lifestyle, good company, or good sex), AND you MUST have outcome independence in order to even get with meh looking chicks.

    But. BUT! Like I keep saying, it is retardedly easy to develop all those things since the average man:

    -Looks like a homeless guy 90% of the time
    -Has piss poor social skills and are incredibly socially retarded thanks to PUAism telling them to act like clowns
    -Have less than nothing to offer because they have no idea how to relate to others, live a fulfilling life, or please a chick sexually
    -Are more outcome dependent than most chicks

    All four of those can be solved. And easily. I WISH I had things this easy 15-20 years ago but things were way different back then.

  64. If I’ve ever seen a dead to rights  tell of an insecure and angry man who is projecting like a busted fire hydrant, it was someone who used “cuck” like that in a sentence

    Legit, that term is pretty much reserved for internet trolls who fail at life and who are either just as triggered as the lefty they are disagreeing with or they are intimidated and butthurt by anyone who is more successful than they. They also use the term “soyboy” too lol.

  65. Yup. As I’ve said many times, I have personally met and have coached really good-looking dudes who can’t get laid or have a really difficult time getting laid.

    I resemble that remark.

    Go Time’s right around the corner, and the SMIC on Friday. I really shouldn’t hate so hard on online dating, this time last year I got a Tinder match with a VYW who lived way out in the country. Cute little thing, wanted a “rave bae” which could have been a lot of fun, almost had her talked into coming to town to party. Facebook thinks I’m 26, although I’m 46, and still got matches like mad….and have an even better v-taper now. Yeah, gymcels are a thing.

    Plus, today my neighbor locked herself out of her place somehow. I let her, another VYW, through my place and commented on how I’m glad it’s not a mess, and she looked around and marveled at how classy it is.  Fuck yeah, I know how to adult, and fuck no, I have no excuse whatsoever. As one of the few TRP guys I really like, MattyAnon, says, this is the golden age of the alpha male.

    Edit: “All four of those can be solved. And easily. I WISH I had things this easy 15-20 years ago but things were way different back then.” YEP

  66. LMAO I agree. It’s pretty much like shooting fish in a barrel at this point. I still believe in 80/20 but it is stupid easy to be part of that 20%. You don’t even need a lot of money nowadays since chicks are told to make money instead of rely on dudes for it which is awesome.

    I get what you are saying I think 80/20 could very well be true but why would I give a fuck about percentages and numbers of who is fucking who. I want to fuck hot chicks and be happy long term. The way I did it was I improved my physique(im probably top 1% in this category because  in my late 20’s when I was married I was a gym rat), income (Im doing better but not where I need to be), style and social skills. Everything else is armchair philosophy. Past a certain point knowledge does not matter. Get the fuck out there and improve daily.

    -Looks like a homeless guy 90% of the time-Has piss poor social skills and are incredibly socially retarded thanks to PUAism telling them to act like clowns-Have less than nothing to offer because they have no idea how to relate to others, live a fulfilling life, or please a chick sexually-Are more outcome dependent than most chicks

    My point exactly

    Most Guys have shitty physiques no style and do not know how to interact with women at all. Plus they have a shitty job they hate. It’s not hard we live in the best times for being a man. Go forth and conquer gentleman leave the armchair philosophy of 80/20 for the Chumps who aren’t willing to take action.

  67. Thanks  BD

    cannot understand how this topic generates so much posting?

    if she is not interested the average beta has no chance

    she is not waiting for Chad

    she just does not want you ever.. seems simple

    the only surprise is when a 6 or better partners with nearest available guy

    she just is not trying

  68. BD,

    After your Latin America tour,  do you think the culture of the region is going the same way?

    I’m from Latin America, but have lived and still work part of the year in the US and Europe. I see our culture (Latin) slowly transforming into what you and others usually comment here (copying America, as usual). But it might take a long time, not less than 10 years. For example, girls on Instagram already get a fair amount of attention, but it is very far from the crazy levels I see elsewhere (The American Meme is a great and scary suggestion).

  69. A little late to this discussion, but…

    I interact with multiple VYW every month, and have for the last decade or so. I would bet $1000 that I interact with more VYW on a regular basis than you do.

    BD, is this you getting outcome dependent for the sake of protecting your brand? 🙂

  70. Yup. As I’ve said many times, I have personally met and have coached really good-looking dudes who can’t get laid or have a really difficult time getting laid.

    I resemble that remark.

    Guys like you need to tag along and watch a friend (or have him coach you when you’re texting), who is less attractive (or close) then you and who has serious real life game, game women.  Like out in a club or even sitting back incognito on a date and watching.  I’m not anywhere near as good looking as you sound but it changed how I did things.  Women did a 180 with me.  Went from not getting laid that often (when I did they didn’t stick around) to almost always getting laid by the 2nd or 3rd date.  I also learned to screen women, from my buddy, for the likelihood they will fuck me and keep fucking me.

  71. Highest housing prices ever and most % of millenials living with parents than ever has to be a top reason right? Lot harder to setup sex sessions if you dont have  and control your own housing spot and the % of under 40 yrs old people who own/control their own housing spot is lowest in history right. Most people wont risk having sex in public. People like to say feminism and puritanism is main reason but housing market too right?

  72. Serious question,

    if a woman who you’re in a fb/fwb arrangement with discloses to you the other men in her life or lets you know whenever she’s had sex with someone else, is that a sign you’re doing too much boyfriend behavior?

  73. Yup. I was challenged on this when I spoke at the 21 Convention. The response is very simple. You just say to the guy calling you a cuck (who is either monogamous or isn’t getting laid at all), “Okay, cool. How many women have you have sex with in the past 60 days? Let’s compare to my number. And how hot would most men think these women are if we showed them pics? Let me show you pics of mine.”

    When comparing these two things with you it becomes pretty obvious who the Alpha is and who the beta is in the conversation. It’s actually fun.
     

    ^^ There are even skilled daygame PUAs with multiple fuck buddies on rotation who will say your alpha male 2.0 open relationship models are for cucks.

    They adamantly declare they will take up regular monogamy once the novelty of new lays/their SMV begins to decline.

    I push back with ” how in the world are you going to stick to one girl after spending years essentially being accustomed to multiple women ?! ”

    The only reason beta males promise monogamy is because they lack the skillset to get laid easily. I can never seriously believe a man who says he has a healthy sex drive yet willingly refuses to have sex with anyone but his girlfriend for years on end.

  74. Guys like you need to tag along and watch a friend (or have him coach you when you’re texting), who is less attractive (or close) then you and who has serious real life game, game women.

    It’s not a bad idea, but BD’s insistence on internal solutions is 10 x’s with me. That VYW neighbor, the first time I met her I was already drunk, drinking beer on my deck, and invited her to look at my rock collection on my deck. She ended up literally sitting at my feet for almost an hour as I bloviated about some damned thing or another. I later met her live in boyfriend, and I really liked the kid, but he was a prototypical neckbearded soy boy, ticked every box. Of course I’ll never shit where I eat, so she’s off limits, but there’s little doubt that she could use a good railing by a non-attached, non-needy Alpha who has zero interest in “stealing” her because she’s merely one of many plates.

    This goes right to the heart of this post, in my opinion.

    A well known study tied about 70% of male bodily attractiveness to strength, and used an objective measure: grip strength. It was really interesting that the women were so adept at spotting truly strong men…bulging biceps are not needed. Google fed me a totally different study yesterday, tying grip strength to a wide variety of positive health outcomes and lamenting a drastic drop in grip strength over the last few decades since even auto mechanics have power tools now. Put those two studies together and BD’s thesis here has additional support.

    All that said, the Good Looking Loser holds that Game is Killer Instinct, nothing more, nothing less. Isolate and escalate. I have literally everything I need outside of Killer Instinct, which can only come from within, because I’m the fucking Prize.

     

  75. It’s not a bad idea, but BD’s insistence on internal solutions is 10 x’s with me.

    No I agree.. But, a lot of those guys like GLL, who I believe got married this year, have real life mentors and buddies who they go on the hunt with.   They learn with and sharpen their skills.  Reading about it online is usually not enough.  Just my opinion and experience but it’s backed up by others.  For instance, go read GLL’s article on “How to get a mentor”..  talks about how guys like BD and GLL (mentors but different type) are important but you need to “know the person” in real life.  It’s a humbling thing but adds to your life.  Sometimes it becomes a back and forth mentorship.  You learn form each other.  I taught my buddy plenty of things about women even though his count was triple digit and mine isn’t.

    Btw, love GLL’s 2 sites but he stopped posting as much stuff. He kind of led me to this site back in the day I beleive.

  76. Thanks  BD

    cannot understand how this topic generates so much posting?

    Because people love to get angry at this stuff. So far this blog post has generated 80% more traffic than the average article here. (As I knew it would.)

    After your Latin America tour,  do you think the culture of the region is going the same way?

    Depends on the country. I think Colombia will do well. I think Paraguay will stagnate. I think Argentina and Brazil will continue to be batshit insane. And so on.

    BD, is this you getting outcome dependent for the sake of protecting your brand? 🙂

    It’s me correcting a misstatement about me made by a commenter. Nothing new; I always do that.

    And I’m outcome dependent regarding the big picture, of course. Read this.

    Highest housing prices ever and most % of millenials living with parents than ever has to be a top reason right?

    Yes. Horrible economics in our collapsing country is absolutely a factor in all of this.

  77. real life mentors and buddies who they go on the hunt with.

    Good stuff, and noted. My neighbor on the other side is actually Alpha as fuck and just kicked his live in girlfriend out. He’s already slaying on Tinder…..he’s a bit crazy, though.

    I also think that male friendships in general are an important component for some when it comes to an Alpha 2.0 lifestyle. I have a buddy from high school, what, 28 years ago, who I email with every day. We have seen each other through a wide range of women and circumstances. Male friendships are more driven by action, and it certainly doesn’t hurt my Tinder score to have so many young and attractive friends from martial arts, hiking and climbing.

    Many, many men are in a situation where their mental well being is tied to their LTR and I think that is really dangerous and kind of sick. When she leaves, it’s not just 100% of the pussy supply that walks out the door, it’s 100% of friendships too. Brutal. Been there. Never again.

    One piece of manosphere lore that I speak of pretty unabashedly is the Myth of the Lonely Old Man. I think one of the underlying assumptions of the myth is that we’re supposed to be married to our best friends. Fuck that noise.

  78. Many, many men are in a situation where their mental well being is tied to their LTR and I think that is really dangerous and kind of sick. When she leaves, it’s not just 100% of the pussy supply that walks out the door, it’s 100% of friendships too. Brutal. Been there. Never again.
    One piece of manosphere lore that I speak of pretty unabashedly is the Myth of the Lonely Old Man. I think one of the underlying assumptions of the myth is that we’re supposed to be married to our best friends. Fuck that noise.

    yeah that’s a fucking normal LTR…  I am not friends with any of friends of the women I fuck.  I don’t do social circle game or fuck women at work.  None of it should be necessary if you live a decent sized area..  That’s lazy and like you said dangerous..  And no neighbors, lol.  I had a smoking hot neighbor invite me down for a “drink” while her husband was gone for the weekend.  I said no so she comes to my house looking dressed to kill anyways.  Fortunately I had a chick sleeping on my couch.  That’s a no fly zone.  Too much potential drama.

  79. “It has to do with economics (as well as these corporatist bastards you people keep voting into office).”

    Yeah, but if an American man is over 25 and living with his parents there’s about a 99% chance it’s mostly or all his own fault not Chad/Obama/Trump/MomDad/CNN/Fox/Bankers/whatever.

  80. the data about people living at home in this article and your advice to younger men about not relying on your parents really hit home.

    the closer I get to turning the corner on having an apartment to myself, and enough food, money (completely seperate even on cellphone bills etc from parents) the more I feel like…what else am I gonna do besides fuck lots of chicks, exercise, and make lots of money?

    Lately I’ve been considering moving out of town on top of that due to the house sitting chores I get asked to do. things like that.

    2.0 lifestyle can’t come soon enough.

  81. Yeah, but if an American man is over 25 and living with his parents there’s about a 99% chance it’s mostly or all his own fault not Chad/Obama/Trump/MomDad/CNN/Fox/Bankers/whatever.

    Of course, since everything in your life is your fault. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s harder to do so, therefore less men will be doing it.

  82. Yeah, but if an American man is over 25 and living with his parents there’s about a 99% chance it’s mostly or all his own fault not Chad/Obama/Trump/MomDad/CNN/Fox/Bankers/whatever.

    Legit, none of that has any kind of influence on a dude’s sex life at all. Even the SJdubs in colleges don’t have an influence. For every 1000 college chicks I encounter there’s like 5 that are SJdubs. And those types are highly sexual themselves and hunt dudes just as aggressively as Alpha 1s hunt chicks.

    Incels, like most collectivists, overly emotional people, and other outcome dependent people, violate the 2% rule a lot.

  83. I think Colombia will do well. I think Paraguay will stagnate. I think Argentina and Brazil will continue to be batshit insane. 

    Chile was on the rise some years ago, but seems to be crashing again.

    Never got why South America could never be Asia 2.0….oh wait, of course I do! Crazy governments backed up by their crazier population. That’s why I’m unplugging from this system ASAP.

     

  84. I did honestly ask those questions out of curiosity and would very much appreciate any helpful answers.

    I’m starting to have some success. I’ve finally gotten the first date kino stuff down as well as just letting them do most of the talking.

    I’d have more FBs but I guess I just get annoyed too easily. So a few women I’ve just dropped after one or two times, even though I thought they were cute.

    It’s tough to navigate this terrain while trying to get a handle on my bipolar type I, so…if I seem a bit negative or weird, I apologize. I am here to learn.

    If my questions were answered in previous postings, I didn’t see it. I got the OLD manual and it’s not in there.

    I scheduled a photographer who’s just setting up shop for the beginning of the year. So 2019 should be good.

    Another and last Q: does anyone use bumble?

    I do…and only about half of my matches message. I get like 4-6 a day. And of the ones who message maybe another 30% go anywhere.

    I follow the OLD rule of pitching the meetup by the 3rd exchange. Should the first two exchanges be more in depth? Right now they say hi, I say hey how are you, they say how they are, I say that’s good to hear and then pitch the meetup.

     

  85. I do…and only about half of my matches message. I get like 4-6 a day. And of the ones who message maybe another 30% go anywhere.

    I don’t see at as a serious dating app where I’m located (Michigan).  For the same reasons you stated.

    I follow the OLD rule of pitching the meetup by the 3rd exchange. Should the first two exchanges be more in depth? Right now they say hi, I say hey how are you, they say how they are, I say that’s good to hear and then pitch the meetup.

    You’re probably taking the “3rd exchange” too literally.  There needs to be a good flow before you pitch the meetup.  A little more than “in depth” and I personally always get their number as a gauge of their interest and how serious they are at meeting.    Then I use their number to lookup them up on facebook to see if their pictures match (filters and close ups are the devil).  Then if I like what I saw I pitch pretty quick.  All within a short period of time.  Everything depends on the woman..  So, I get the pleasantries out of the way, have a couple more in-depth, exchange numbers, look them up, text (don’t recommend talking), and then pitch meeting as soon as possible..  Shit I pitch the same night a lot.  You should have about 5-10 women on the line.  Don’t burn bridges.   If one slow plays you go to the next and come back to her later.  Be adding and cycling women on the fly.

  86. I don’t see at as a serious dating app where I’m located (Michigan).  For the same reasons you stated.

    What are better dating apps, in your opinion?

    POF I guess is still the gold standard. The only problem I have is that, even in a large area and an area known for being ‘wild,’ the supply of non-fake cute/hot girls is surprisingly small.

    You’re probably taking the “3rd exchange” too literally.  There needs to be a good flow before you pitch the meetup.

    Okay, I’ll try to open up my convos a little more.

     Don’t burn bridges. 

    Do you mean like, on the dating app, don’t be too insistent, or if she wants to ‘chat for awhile first,’ humor her and keep working on the next one?

    That’s interesting. I thought BD was against that.

    Or do you mean that if a woman wants to go on a high number of dates (let’s say they’re inexpensive or she goes dutch or she pays every other date), you just humor her until she puts out and continue working on other women? Or both?

  87. What are better dating apps, in your opinion?

    Age makes difference along with area..  I use them all…  In my area it goes POF then Match.  I have good looking friend who is 18 and he’s given up on tinder (waste in my city).  Anyways, better quality on Match but faster fucks on POF..  match girls are usually on average more professional, more attractive, less fake, but have higher ASD.

    Do you mean like, on the dating app, don’t be too insistent, or if she wants to ‘chat for awhile first,’ humor her and keep working on the next one?
    That’s interesting. I thought BD was against that.

    Don’t burn bridges means keep them in the fold or fade away and come back later.  Just work less on them and close others…  But if you’re in a huge metro and have your game down you can’t do that.  You’ll lose interest due to the other newbies coming along more willing to meet up.  I’m in a small area and have to drive everywhere 30-45 mins.  Anyways, the fade away, come back around, and aggressively push for an immediate date works really good for me.

    Or do you mean that if a woman wants to go on a high number of dates

    No there’s really no excuse for going past 2-3 dates.  If that happens it could be your fault..  You might have things to work on.  But sometimes I will go on a 1st date and then not respond after and come back later.  then go for a second date and I usually fuck them.  Something about them getting blown off has an effect.  No idea.  I don’t plan it or do it on purpose It just happens because I fucked someone else faster.

  88. Jack Outside the Box says:

    What??? Is this the 1950s? Since when does unmarried = sexless?

    There are still a lot of religious people in this country. I’m atheist now, but I grew up Mormon, and my reaction to a cute girl in high school telling me that she didn’t think you needed to be married to have sex (nudge nudge, wink wink) was to make absolutely sure I was never alone with her.

    (*Sound of palm hitting forehead.*)

  89. This is absurd.  Girls fuck all sorts of guys for all sorts of reasons

    The typical American cute girl fucks by the time she’s 21:

    -The nerdy beta guy in her social circle who became her boyfriend

    -Some “Chad” when she was drunk at a frat party

    -A couple of cool guys in her social circle

    -Some older guy from a club when she studied abroad

    -A PUA who picked her up on the metro

    -One or two Tinder guys after she got dumped by the boyfriend or PUA

    -Her friend’s friend while he was visiting from another school for the weekend

    -A black guy because she was “curious to try it”

    … and so on

    Again, girls hook up with guys for all sorts of reasons.  If you’re reasonably attractive 80% of the game comes down to just talking to her and catching her at the right time when she’s not getting plowed by some dude.

  90. Again, girls hook up with guys for all sorts of reasons.

    Legit. And that’s a good thing, despite what most incels say.

    If you’re reasonably attractive 80% of the game comes down to just talking to her and catching her at the right time when she’s not getting plowed by some dude.

    That’s the thing with incels tho. Most of them don’t even believe that they are reasonably attractive just because they get sucked into social media etc that gives them the impression that everyone enjoys sex except them.

    Or they are like I was and they hate themselves so much that they’ll never even put in the effort into approaching chicks because of shitty things that happened to them as well as being clueless as to what to do around chicks. That’s what happened to me; I pretty much wrestled between thinking I didn’t deserve female attention and thinking there was a conspiracy against me or something.

    I was scared of rejection for a different reason than most; I didn’t want to get a harassment charge, which is what happened to me when I was in high school. Stuff like that cuts deep. It isn’t easy to recover from stuff like that, especially nowadays when most young men are around all kinds of stuff that hijacks their brains: Social media, pornography, even manosphere and red pill stuff.

  91. The world is nuts

    just watched a cartoon clip where Batman has sex with batgirl

    most of the comments were complaints

    he is 40 she is 18

    that is so wrong ..they say

    wow societal programming at its worst

  92. The data I sourced doesn’t say otherwise. It just says those who are still virgins past 18 are disproportionately still living at home.

    Yeah, probably because they’re depressed and can’t go out and hustle. If I were a virgin passed 18, I’d probably swallow a bullet. Not that I encourage that (in fact, I strongly discourage it). I’m just saying what I would have done.

    Is anyone still a virgin by the time they’re 18?

    Fuck yes! Millions of people. Not everyone is like you or me.

    See, this sends a very big chill down my spine. When I was in college, I was seriously considering suicide. But if I were still a virgin in college and hadn’t had my sexual adventures in high school, I am 100 percent positive that I would have stood in front of a moving train or something. Scary shit to think about!

    “One can only masturbate so much before one feels empty inside” – a quote from a fictional version of the Buddha from a porn movie whose title escapes me.

    Both the statistical data and my personal experience in talking to men about this disagree with you.

    I suppose it’s harder to lose your virginity if you’re still living with your parents, despite the fact that you are an adult. That’s not attractive. But that is only predicated on the assumption that you didn’t lose it when you should have lost it – way before you turned 18 and way before it was time to move out.

    That’s why I said you being a virgin has nothing to do with still living with your parents. It has to do with you screwing up in school. Most people I know lost their virginity in 7th grade or thereabout.

    Since talking about gameless beta males in an unregulated sexual marketplace like today. Gameless betas are indeed more likely to get laid (or more likely to get laid sooner in life) if they have easy access to marriage. I don’t like it, but the right-wingers are indeed correct about that one.

    So there are still betas today who are virgins until their wedding nights? There are actually women who refuse to fuck them until they “put a ring on it?” In the West?

    WOW! I wonder how many orgies that woman had before she became “born again” and demanded celibacy until marriage from the omega male she trapped!

    I feel gross now!

     

  93. There are still a lot of religious people in this country.

    Don’t remind me.

    Wait, scratch that. My girlfriend is very religious. But she’s a Wiccan. And Wiccans encourage (and even facilitate) their friends’ and families’ sexual activity as early as puberty. My girlfriend lost her virginity at age 12 and a half (that’s 6th grade) because it was arranged by her Wiccan mom six months after her 12th birthday on December 21st (June 21st, Summer Solstice). Not all religions are sex-negative.

    I’m atheist now,

    Well done.

    but I grew up Mormon,

    Oh jeez! I’m so sorry. Those knuckleheads are even more prudish than mainstream Christians (but less prudish than Muslims).

    Do they really believe in magic underwear? Or that god lives on the planet Kolab? Or that Adam and Eve were born in Jackson County, Missouri? Or that American Indians are the original Jews? Or that Jesus will come back to Mississippi? Or that black people will miraculously turn white if they convert? Or that……wait, nevermind, this is too off topic.

    and my reaction to a cute girl in high school telling me that she didn’t think you needed to be married to have sex (nudge nudge, wink wink) was to make absolutely sure I was never alone with her.

    (*Sound of palm hitting forehead.*)

    Painful man! Excruciating, in fact.

    Well, at least you got out of that cult. They were the only conservatives who refused to vote for Trump because his wife was too hot. LOL!

     

  94. Serious question,

    if a woman who you’re in a fb/fwb arrangement with discloses to you the other men in her life or lets you know whenever she’s had sex with someone else, is that a sign you’re doing too much boyfriend behavior?

    No, it’s a sign of the exact opposite. If she wanted you as a boyfriend, the odds are she would try to hide her extracurricular activities from you.

     

  95. Every societal indicator points towards increasing hypergamy: dating apps.

    Dating apps have helped me and tons of other guys get laid.

    The demystification of sex.

    Less prudery = more pussy. So far, so good.

    Feminism.

    Yes, this is a problem. Working on it.

    Female freedom.

    Uhhh……..female freedom is precisely what makes sexual liberation possible. You want enthusiastic sex? Or compulsory dead fish wife sex?

    Increasing wages for women.

    That’s good though. Increasing wages = less gold digging. Less gold digging = more sexual liberation and sexual symbiosis (sex for sex) between men and women.

    Would you rather threaten women with starvation and force them to look for a rich husband at age 18? You do realize that that would kill women’s sexual urges and force them to have sex for non-sexual reasons right?

    Why do you want to kill the female sex drive and turn women into hookers?

    There can be no sexual freedom without a gender neutral economy.

     

  96. Meanwhile, all you do is condescend and double down on your nonmonagmy rhetoric

    Correct!

    like it’s all the fault of those evil, traditionalist MGTOWs and Alpha1.0’s

    Correct! And politically correct left wing feminists who think all sex is rape if it is not first prefaced with autistic verbal procedures.

    who just want a healthy, functioning society

    No matter how much you pretty it up, it still sounds like slut shaming to me.

    and clearly defined gender roles.

    The problem is that your idea of “clearly defined gender roles” involves all women becoming prostitutes (read: housewives) and suppressing their own heterosexuality in the name of sexual generosity (a version of asexuality) to the biggest financial provider.

    If you want women to suppress their sexual urges and fuck you only for asexual or economically prudential reasons, that’s your business. But don’t force that hell on the rest of us who actually appreciate women fucking us based on lust in exchange for nothing but sex in return.

    Sexual inequality goes hand in hand with wealth inequality.

    Dude, there are plenty of women who can make their own money, thus allowing them to liberate their sexual urges by fucking the hot guy instead of the rich guy. And those are the women we go after, not a bunch of gold digging parasites (which seem to be your preference).

     

     

  97. @ Jack Outside the Box

    1)Which person would have more wrong with them for not having sex before the age of 18, a man(teenage boy) or a woman(teenage girl) on average?

    2)Are you more sympathetic towards the boy or girl for not having had sex by the age of 18 or graduating high-school and why is this so?

    3)Don’t you think you should be a little more forgiving and less judgemental about people who haven’t had sex by the age of 18 and maybe extend that to age 22 give or take a year?

    4)Do you aknowledge that beta men were better off in the Sexual Market Place in the 1950sand for at least 1500 years prior or not, and why do you think that is so, and why do you feel gross about it?

  98. @ Joelsuf

    Since you agreed with Jack Outside the Box, could you please answer the same questions I asked him directly above this post.

  99. @Blackdragon

    I do not know why my e-mail address was listed in my comment to Jack Outside the Box above which I posted today 15 December 2018 at 8:24am. Please list me as doclove  in the name and take out my E-mail address. I do not want anyone to know it. It was probably my fault and sorry in advance.

  100. @Jack in the Box

    Ok. She always tells me like she feels guilty or expects me to get upset, though. The last time she was like “I wa thinking of you the whole time.”

    Like, I’ve made it clear we’re  not in a relationship or committed.

    Is it also a shit test, you think?

  101. I had more sex when I lived with my parents in high school and college than I did for six years in grad school when I had my own apartment. Reason was, in grad school I was grieving for my one-itis who dumped me, and I was clingy and needy. Totally my fault. Point is, living at home doesn’t keep you celibate. Moreover, all the women I had sex with when I lived at home also lived with their parents. They wanted to fuck me, and they found a way to make it happen.

  102. 1)Which person would have more wrong with them for not having sex before the age of 18, a man(teenage boy) or a woman(teenage girl) on average?

    Both equally wrong.

    2)Are you more sympathetic towards the boy or girl for not having had sex by the age of 18

    I’d probably have more sympathy for the boy because it is harder for males to get laid than females.

    or graduating high-school

    Huh? Everyone needs to graduate high school. Especially women, lest they become parasitic gold diggers. There’s no excuse not to graduate from high school. What are you talking about? Can you rephrase the question?

    3)Don’t you think you should be a little more forgiving and less judgemental about people who haven’t had sex by the age of 18

    It depends on what you mean by “forgiving.” I’d be way more forgiving if they desired to change their situation and began taking active steps to educate themselves in game and start coming up with strategies to lose their virginity.

    It really depends on their mindset and what circumstances prevented them from getting laid with everybody else.

    and maybe extend that to age 22 give or take a year?

    Hell no! 22? That’s insane! No offense BD!

    4)Do you aknowledge that beta men were better off in the Sexual Market Place in the 1950sand for at least 1500 years prior or not, and why do you think that is so,

    It depends what you mean by “better.” Did they have “wife sex” where the woman spread her legs, closed her eyes, and thought of England? Sure. Is living in that matrix lie better than celibacy? Not for me. I’d rather be celibate than have a woman deceive me in bed like that. But some men have different personalities.

    I will say this though: It is probably more advantageous for us to be as discrete as possible with our lifestyle so that the beta workers don’t drop their tools and perpetrate a revolt because they want free sex too for their unattractive asses!

    I’ve told you before that I’m fine with maintaining the monogamy matrix for the unwashed masses so that the betas are motivated to keep working, while we discretely sleep with their wives and maintain our own poly lifestyles. It’s a fair compromise. Freedom is not for everyone.

    and why do you feel gross about it?

    I feel gross about it now. I wouldn’t have necessarily have felt gross about 1,500 years ago. But today, the contrast between those who graduate high school with lay counts in the double digits vs. those who graduate as virgins just instinctively grosses me out, just like my lifestyle grosses out a Muslim or a conservative Christian.

    It’s an involuntary instinct of disgust. “Purity” just creeps me out. Totally subjective.

     

  103. …Guys, something that I’ve been wondering is that we’ve all heard “it’s a numbers game”… well just how many damn numbers are we talking about?! Last year I bought BD’s online manual have followed it perfectly, got my best professional pictures I’ve ever had if myself taken and use BD’s exact same openers/questions and still haven’t gotten shit!! At this point I’ve sent close to 1,000 openers(yes I’ve kept track) and its like I don’t want to even bother anymore since I know these stuck-up bitches on the sites aren’t going to respond. It’s like at this point, the women don’t deserve any attention or messages in the first place if they’re going to be this damn bitchy/stuck-up. I’ve just needed to vent because I’ve done everything it says to do in BD’s ebook and feel I should’ve had at least some type of results by now

  104. Just cuz I agreed with like two things JOTB says doesn’t mean I have the exact same opinions about him. We both embrace sex positive stuff and open relationships but that’s about it. But either way here goes…

    1)Which person would have more wrong with them for not having sex before the age of 18, a man(teenage boy) or a woman(teenage girl) on average?

    If you’re asking which one has lower social value in the eyes of society, that goes to boys. But that’s only cuz we still see some kind of social value in how experienced someone is in sex. I call this the “high school mentality” since social value when it comes to sexual experience revolves mostly around stuff that can’t be proven. There is no way anyone can show any “proof” of how experienced they are.

    This kind of experience can be “faked” for that reason. When I was approaching 25 and hadn’t had sex with a chick yet, I made it a point to learn as much about sex as possible. By the time I finally had sex at 24, I knew exactly what I was doing and whenever I talked about it, people thought I had already had sex with like 30 chicks lol.

    2)Are you more sympathetic towards the boy or girl for not having had sex by the age of 18 or graduating high-school and why is this so?

    Both I guess. I think everyone should have sex before 16 just to get it out of the way. If I were a parent I’d be my kid’s best wingman. No matter the gender, I’d be trying to hook the kid up with everyone lol.

    3)Don’t you think you should be a little more forgiving and less judgmental about people who haven’t had sex by the age of 18 and maybe extend that to age 22 give or take a year?

    I don’t care how sexually experienced a person is tbh. But when incels openly express their frustration they give themselves away. It’s bad form, toxic, and they know it.

    If 80% of incel boards had a message of “I’m pretty frustrated with my sex life and just want some support and advice that goes beyond ‘just take a shower’ or ‘be a nice person’ or ‘you just need money’ and other stuff I heard before” then I’d be a little more sympathetic. But their toxicity shows me that they aren’t mature enough to be taken seriously.

    The 20% who aren’t toxic? Those are people I’m trying to help. I was in that 20% for a long time, my entire 20s pretty much. So I understand how it is.

    4) Do you acknowledge that beta men were better off in the Sexual Market Place in the 1950s and for at least 1500 years prior or not, and why do you think that is so, and why do you feel gross about it?

    The only reason why betas were better off back then was cuz chicks legit had no rights and all you had to do if you were a beta was go to school, stay out of trouble, work for the man, and a chick was lined up for you. All that stuff was arranged back then. Imagine that! Having NO choice in partner at all. It was like this for both sexes.

    So no, things were not better back then. Back in the day, you were really, REALLY lucky if you had sex with more than five chicks (hell, even five TIMES with the SAME chick) before you died.

    Now, if you bust your ass enough, you can have sex with five chicks in one DAY. And if you have a partner who is horny enough, you can definitely have sex five times in a day (or at least fool around five times a day).

    That happened to me in Summer of 2017. We were on a road trip. She gave me a blow job in the car (I finger blasted her after), we had sex in a truck stop shower, got to the hotel and had sex at the room, fooled around in the pool (for some reason that was better than the road head I got lol), then had sex before passing out. Good times. She was overweight (right around 200 lbs) and older (about 45) but I didn’t care. It’s mostly T&A and she’s fixed. We still have sex now.

    Would anything like that ever happen even 50 years ago? Fuck no.

    It is a natural human right to have choices and be competitive. Sex is no exception to this, and in fact, anyone should be able to make any choice they want when it comes to sex: Whether to have sex, not to have sex, whatever.

    The more see begin seeing sex as just as common as something like eating, the less incels and #MeToo assholes we’re gonna see.

  105. Moreover, all the women I had sex with when I lived at home alsolived with their parents. They wanted to fuck me, and they found a way to make it happen.

    Legit. People don’t understand that chicks are hornier than dudes if they are “allowed” to be.

    There’s one chick who I would have sex with almost daily at my job. She would text me saying she was heading over, and we would have sex in the warehouse at my job.

    Chicks don’t care about dudes who live in crowded places or parents or whatever. If they are horny enough then they’ll have sex in the arctic and risk getting hypothermia haha.

     I’ve just needed to vent because I’ve done everything it says to do in BD’s ebook and feel I should’ve had at least some type of results by now

    I’m gonna save BD the trouble here but he’ll probably say the same.

    I highly doubt you are doing what you say you are doing. If you did, you wouldn’t be this salty.

    I’m 5’8”, have a physique like Jason Blaha (a fat lolcow who pretends to be a bodybuilder, among other things), only did a couple things in BD’s online dating manual, and still get with chicks online if I put in the effort. When it comes to “live” approaching (day game/night game) its even easier: Just don’t be a try-hard and BOOM. AND my city sucks, its just a college town.

    Yes, the chicks are meh or average looking, but who care’s. My SMV is pretty meh so everything’s lined up lol. And I’ll admit that I’m being lazy about this too. I avoid chicks who aren’t meh or average and I just realized that I’m doing that cuz I’m lazy.

    Don’t take this as a diss or something, but your salt shows how outcome dependent you are. If you have an outcome dependent mindset, literally nothing will work.

    This is nothing BD wouldn’t be saying btw.

  106. @joelsuf… I’ve completely read through BD’s online manual at least 12 times by now and made sure to do everything he says to: most important thing is to get the best pictures possible of yourself which I did, and use his exact same openers/questions that he outlined in the book. If you claim it’s so easy then you’re probably only going for the low-quality ratchet trash on the sites.

    You or anyone else in my position would be pissed off too if you never got any results.

  107. @JOTB You don’t need to tell me that. I fuck hot milfs with some regularity and I’m poor af. I meant that it’s a societal trend for there to be co-occurring vastly disparate sexual and income ratios. Meaning, that society is failing. I recognized this long ago and just because I chose to make the most of it and enjoy the decline, does not mean I have to approve of that failing society.

  108. I don’t understand the contempt you guys harbor for men who are less sexually successful than you. That’s like a rich man spitting into the beggar’s open palm.

  109. The only reason why betas were better off back then was cuz chicks legit had no rights and all you had to do if you were a beta was go to school, stay out of trouble, work for the man, and a chick was lined up for you.

    Those who think it sucked to be a woman back in the bad old days of the patriarchy rarely take into account that young men didn’t have many “rights” either. Parents arranged marriages for their sons as well as their daughters. If they decided to marry you to a beast to cement an alliance or because her family had money, tough shit, deal with it. If you refused, your father could disown and disinherit you – at which point, no woman’s father would allow you, a penniless loser, to marry her.

    If you read any histories of women in Victorian times, you note right away that eventually, after having a bunch of kids, they went into sex-denial mode. They were tired of having kids, and didn’t want to risk getting pregnant again, can’t say I blame them. The practical effect of this was little different from marriage today, where the woman gets bored and goes into sex-denial mode. Namely, hard luck for the Billy Beta who was married to them.

    Today, men and women have more freedom and more options than ever before in human history. It is senseless to pine for the imaginary “golden era” when it was great to be a beta, because that era did not exist. The only thing holding you back from enjoying freedom and happiness today – is you.

  110. @MartyMcfly,… hey Marty serious question: how and where do you exactly go about getting the hot milfs? Are they’re like some secret websites or something? I’ve had no luck whatsoever with young girls or close to my age(30) and it’s really starting to get frustrating for me. I know BD preaches to have outcome independence, but isn’t the whole point trying to better ourselves so we can actually get results?   The question I have for outcome independence is: am I really supposed to go throughout my whole life and be content/happy that I never actually got any results? That’s why I don’t necessarily buy into the outcome independence advice… because if we’re all honest, we all want to actually get results meaning we’ll have to care about results at some point in our lives

  111. Matthew, those are not good results, and I can understand why you are frustrated.

    Some of us do OK online, but some other guys really struggle, and the reasons are not always obvious.

    I have several actionable suggestions.

    1. Go to NextASF.com or BD’s Alpha 2.0 site and ask for help with your online game.

    2. Look into other ways to meet women…social circle, professional networking, or learn cold approach pickup…daygame or night game. You might find better success there…online is not for everyone.

    3. Try not to let your current frustration metastasize into a general anger at women…although I fear this is already happening with you.  This will only make things more difficult for you.  It’s not attractive, and could lead to a vicious circle of worse results and ever more negative emotions.

  112. @Matthew I do a two-pronged approach to meeting women: social circle (dance classes, meetups) and daygame (coffee shops, art museums, hell even the grocery store!) The former is where I meet older women. Search the archives for BD’s article on  how to game them.

  113. @Matthew 

    The “success” of online dating is based on looks and nothing else imo. If you are looking for a relationship then forget about tinder! IME women don’t read bios anyway, they don’t care how many places you have been, how many PHDs you have collected, how fancy your hobbies are and all that shit. If a woman is looking for those things then she either wants to be wifed up or having a boyfriend to show off in her circle who can buy her things and provide trips to the Mars. Would you like to be with such a woman?

    Whatever the case may be if you are looking for a gf then stay away from online dating, if you are looking for fun, then work on your looks first. I mean, let’s say there is a perfect Alpha male, who is successful and good looking, then why on earth would he even look for women on Tinder? lol

    Once you you have maximized your looks level, you need to stop putting too much effort in that whole thing, it’s just not worth it. Just put in 3 pics at best. I have noticed many men put pics like this on their account, with a dark backround. https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/studio-portrait-of-elegant-handsome-man-dark-background-picture-id923675144?k=6&m=923675144&s=612×612&w=0&h=eAzHBw5FceRt7TkGVCnS_iYhmOO6-_XMtdkjU3WLsdk=

     

    Just write short sentences in your bios, make it look a little ambiguous and just be a little teasy and funny when you approach and that’s it. Don’t view online dating as a job you have to work for, take it as an old hobby you are doing after work just to relax. The less work you put in, the better and the less expectations you will have.

    Milfs are “easy” as fuck, just go to bars, local places, stores etc. Look her in the eyes once or twice, wait until she looks back and reciprocates and then go over and say “hi” or “Hi, I have a question/would like to ask you something…”. If you are in a store you can always ask a woman about “how to cook a meal like XYZ” or ask her for help in order to pick the right food, clothes or christmas presents. It sounds cheesy but for some reason women like to help out when they are being asked for ADVICE. I have done it many times and it works. Only once it happened that I was with a friend in a store who asked a STUPID question to a woman he found hot, which made myself feel stupid too, but she took it lightly and still answered his stupid question for some reason. lol

  114. @Berti  Thanks for the advice although I’ve already done all of that and that’s why I can’t figure it out…I’ve maximized my looks(am in the best shape of my life and am now in better shape than the majority out there, spent a good amount of money on getting the best professional pictures of myself that I’ve ever had)…and still just nothing but the sound of crickets chirping

    I’ve also dabbled quite a bit into daygame/some nightgame but even in those places never had any luck. I try to start-up polite conversations yet it’s like the women act like they can’t be bothered to even have a basic conversation in the first place, so now it’s like I don’t wanna even bother with these bitches anymore, they don’t deserve any attention at all if they’re this stuck-up/bitchy. They think their shit doesn’t stink, well they need to pull their heads outta their own stuck-up asses.

  115. I don’t understand the contempt you guys harbor for men who are less sexually successful than you. That’s like a rich man spitting into the beggar’s open palm.

    I don’t have contempt for those types at all.

    When they turn into overgrown babies, get salty, and say that there is some weird conspiracy against them that’s when I show my fangs. And it’s done in tough love tbh. If someone is going to get butthurt about text on a screen (like our bois Matt and Berti), then I know for a FACT they aren’t doing enough when it comes to chicks.

    That’s like the faggots who scream about Robbins, Cardone, Ferriss, and other dudes who preach that it is easy to make money online if you do the right stuffm saying that they are “scammers.” They’re butthurt about other people being more successful than they. Addicted to toxicity.

    Outcome dependence and getting butthurt about stuff you shouldn’t be getting butthurt about (which is like 90% of the shit that goes around you) is degeneracy. Straight up. If you are outcome dependent and butthurt, and not doing something about it, you don’t deserve air. The more people understand that, the better.

    It is beyond retarded to see grown ass men getting more emotional about stuff than adolescent girls nowadays.

    Whatever happened to “I’m not doing as good as I want, but if I know I’m on the right track and I’ll succeed someday?” Seriously, someone tell me.

    Toughen the fuck up and grow a damn set. Seriously.

    btw BD would be saying these EXACT things. I know this because he has published whole articles about it.

  116. @Joelsuf you wield radical individualism like some shield against logic. Sure individualism is good, but that doesn’t discount what can be accomplished through mass action either. Take the yellow jackets in france for example, they came together through a collective effort and forced change through goal oriented action. It’s too late to stave off the collapse of the West but if men could get together like they do in the manosphere and lobby for their rights.  Then just maybe they could mitigate some of the consequences of that collapse, perhaps even consolidate enough influence to guide the direction taken by the new governing body.

  117. I’ve completely read through BD’s online manual at least 12 times by now and made sure to do everything he says to

    okay look..  BDs shit is an outline..  it’s like people read his stuff and say I’m doing that exactly..  you have to tweek it to fit who you are..  for instance I have lame pictures..  girls show up and say “damn you’re cuter in person!!”..  BD puts off a ultra macho John Wayne persona it seems whereas I put off a cute alpha harmless player who dresses good and smells good..  then I go get in my car with with only one working door and I have to crawl over the passenger seat to get in the drivers side..  don’t give  a fuck if they see it..  they suck my dick and offer me money to fix my car and say it’s cute.. you think BD recommends that?  Shit I don’t recommend it but it works for me..   I make a solid 6 figures, Have few bills, and could buy pretty much what I wanted..  but you know why it works for me??  It’s attitude and personality..  I have them dripping wet squirming arojnd like they got ants In their panties before they ever see my car..   usually they’re inviting me into the back of their mommy mobile and ripping their pants off…  all attitude and persona..  make it fit who you are..  and lighten up..  work on day game for awhile and go back to online alter..  work on humility with women..  I made it a goal to be rejected every day by some woman..  I’d brag about it..  why because most men are pussies and can’t take rejection..  I thrive off it..  smile, wink and tell them my loss beautiful..  nothing more alpha then a guy who can take rejection with a fucking wink and a smile..  like don’t worry baby I’ll eventually fuck you or someone else real soon..  Then go fuck someone else..

    And do worry about the ones you can’t fuck.. only ones you do

  118. @John: I definitely get what you’re saying dude, though I think that your past successes kept you going through those rejections… now how about a guy that never had any success in the first place? He’s got nothing positive to fall back on or remember.  Again, I hear what you’re saying, but what if a guy goes through his life and gets nothing but rejection after rejection and never any actual success or anything good. That would wear any man down

  119. I definitely get what you’re saying dude, though I think that your past successes kept you going through those rejections… now how about a guy that never had any success in the first place? He’s got nothing positive to fall back on or remember.  Again, I hear what you’re saying, but what if a guy goes through his life and gets nothing but rejection after rejection and never any actual success or anything good. That would wear any man down

    No I get that…  You have to have some successes.  I would say you need someone to look at your profile (honest woman or experienced honest man), read your messages, and tell you what they think.  You might not like what you hear unfortunately but I did it.  I had a buddy who couldn’t get a women to sleep with him off of online dating.  I told him and told him why but he wouldn’t listen.  He wanted to make it about them and bitch about women these days.  Finally some chick got sick of his ass and told him the truth.  Same exact shit I’d told him over and over.  So having that real life feedback helps if you will take someones feedback and make changes when necessary.  If you don’t have anyone find someone.  If you’ve done that and your’re still not having success find someone more honest because they’re lying.  It’s like fishing with dynamite out there brother.  Don’t give up..  You’ll get it.

  120. I made it a goal to be rejected every day by some woman..  I’d brag about it..  why because most men are pussies and can’t take rejection..  I thrive off it..  smile, wink and tell them my loss beautiful..  nothing more alpha then a guy who can take rejection with a fucking wink and a smile..

    This has to be the most legit comment I have read thus far on this post. Seriously, boys need to get the sand out of their vaginas and get shot down a few times. I myself make it a point to get shot down daily if I’m hunting hard.

    It’s like what Vince Vaughn said in Swingers: There’s nothing wrong with letting the beautiful babies know that you’re money and that you want to party. If you do it with class and don’t be a try-hard, you’re good. Chicks aren’t being raised by trad-cons anymore.

    Don’t worry about “oh what if I get a harassment charge? What if I get #MeToo’d if I flirt with them or something?”

    That kind of thing happens to PUA weirdos and belligerent degenerates who don’t know how to actually have conversations with chicks without being a try-hard.

    you wield radical individualism like some shield against logic. Sure individualism is good, but that doesn’t discount what can be accomplished through mass action either.

    Look, I’m not out to destroy all collectivists or something. That would make me a hypocrite. But yes, my existence is a celebration of the individual: Individual thoughts, individual actions, individual beliefs, individual desires. External solutions and collectivism are a massive waste of time and energy.

    What’s more, most collectivists have a very hard time understanding that accomplishing things through their “mass action” is almost always done at the expense of groups that they do not like.

    That’s how it was with religion, abolitionists, civil rights movements (just LOL at the concept of “rights,” what a statist term), women’s movements,  LGBT movements, nonwhite movements, trad-con movements, men’s movements, and white movements.

    All of these do three things in common: Preach dogma that assigns principles and values to their members, assign god-like idols of their cause (I can name at least one idol for each of the above movements, btw), and select a group who they want to demonize and act at the expense of. There is a very systematic, cult-like process to this that has been followed for millennia and it is indeed holding back the power of the individual. And while I am not out to end any of that since it isn’t my place, I definitely have no qualms in letting people know that there are much better uses of time and ways to be happy.

    So excuse me if I don’t find that stuff appealing. I like having my own values and principles.

  121. Some quick thoughts and responses are warranted here.

     

    Anyone who thinks that women want sex as much as men are wrong. Because of Hypergamy, women only think that 20% of the men are attractive based off their picture alone and 80% are unattractive(ugly)according to research done by dating websites and even universities. Prostitution and other forms of sex work such as stripping is virtually unheard of for heterosexual women or bisexual women who are  acting on their heterosexual tendencies, and note I did not say it is absolutely unheard of for men to be sex workers servicing women but only that it is extremely rare both in sheer numbers and especially in per capita. This is less of the case regarding heterosexual men, homosexual men, bisexual men, homosexual women and bisexual women acting on their homosexual tendencies.

  122. Some quick thoughts and responses are warranted here.

    You’re stating some facts but your logic is flawed.  You’re comparing apples and oranges.

    Women will say they are not attracted by a dudes picture and still have sex with him, because what really triggers her attraction isn’t simply his image. Their attraction is different than ours. Men are visual, women are much more emotional when it comes to arousal. That is also the reason why male prostitution is not a thing. Men can have sex by a physical stimilus only. Women need to be involved in a way with the guy to get aroused. She won’t get wet for a prostitute, at least most of the time. Plus women can get laid at will, there are always hundreds of free options.

    Those things do not mean women don’t like sex as much as men. It is different. They want sex in a different way

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