I considered not publishing this because I know it’s going to rub a few guys the wrong way. But I thought about it, and decided it would be good to be as transparent with my audience as possible in regards to the thought processes I use when I write articles for my blogs or when I talk to people on the internet. Transparency with my audience, at least as much as feasible, is important to me.

When I write online, over time, I’ve come to categorize the various groups of men who tend to disagree with either me or people in the manosphere / PUA who are similar to me. Doing this has really helped, in that it’s allowed me to save a lot of time when communicating with these guys and when writing my own content.

Below is a list of the categories I’ve had in my head for a while. As you read through them, you’ll definitely recognize many of them if you’ve spent any time on manosphere web sites. (Note: To those of you wondering why I would write an article like this, it’s another one of my time management link-to articles that save me commenting time in the future.)

1. “SMV Is All That Matters!” Guys

These are men who think that sexual market value (SMV) is literally the only factor when it comes to having sex with attractive women. They believe that if you are having sex with attractive women this must mean that you are either extremely good-looking, or you are wealthy beyond belief, or you are famous. That’s it. There can be no other reasons. Since to them, there is literally no other way to have sex with attractive women.

Confidence doesn’t matter at all. Outcome independence doesn’t matter at all. Pick-up skills, dating skills, relationship management skills, and all other woman skills are all “bullshit” and clearly don’t matter either. None of that stuff works, and if you say it does, you’re obviously lying, regardless of the mountains of evidence to the contrary. You have to be gorgeous or rich or else you either can’t get laid or can only get laid with average-looking or ugly women.

My standard message to these guys is what I said here already, which is:

If you seriously think that SMV is the only factor in determining whether or not a man gets laid with at least cute girls, then you need to explain the chubby homeless guy who was banging all these girls that I talked about here. You need to explain the pick-up artists who I have personally met (not just read about on the internet, but personally met) who were so poor they slept on their friend’s couches, who were banging hot girls left and right. You need to explain the YouTube videos of these attractive, ripped guys who can’t get laid. You need to explain the myriad of very rich men on the sugar daddy sites who also can’t get laid. You need to explain the fat guys (not overweight, but fat) who were not rich, who I have personally coached, who ended up having sex with multiple girls who were cute enough that I would have sex with them. You need to explain the men in their fifties I personally know who are not millionaires, who are dating women as young as 25 with no problems.

Seriously, you need to logically and rationally explain these things. If you can’t, you have to admit that SMV is a factor, but not the only factor or the deciding factor.

2. “Looks Are All That Matter!” Guys

These guys are even worse than the “SMV Is All That Matters!” Guys. These guys think that the only men on planet Earth who have sex with hot girls are hot men. Non-hot men can’t get laid with hot girls, period. It’s impossible (unless, perhaps, if you pay them). Literally nothing else matters. Just your looks.

After all, since men prioritize physical appearance with girls, girls must therefore prioritize physical appearance with men, since women and men are the same.

Yes, these guys seriously use that logic.

These are the guys who seethe with anger when they see good-looking “Chads” on Instagram, thinking (incorrectly) that these “assholes” are “taking all the hot girls.” They are also bewildered and angered when they hear guys like me (who are overweight or have other issues with their looks) say that we have sex with hot women, since clearly we must be lying, since clearly that’s impossible.

I addressed the issue of looks here, but the bottom line is that, yes, looks is a tremendous key factor, and you must optimize your looks to be good with women, but looks is not the be-all unless you are hugely fat or physically deformed.

3. “Pick-Up Artists Shouldn’t Make Money!” Guys

These are a sub-group in the PUA community who are enraged that some PUA gurus actually make money selling pick-up material. They automatically think that just about every person on the internet selling any kind of pick-up or dating advice is lying and ripping everyone off. (Some of them are also “SMV Is All That Matters!” Guys who think all dating / pick-up advice is “bullshit” since SMV is all that matters).

Internet marketing techniques drive these guys absolutely insane. The only advice they trust (what little advice they trust) is the pick-up advice given out for free from someone who doesn’t sell anything. The instant you try to sell something though, boom, now everything out of your mouth is a lie and no one should trust you or purchase anything from you.

These guys often identify themselves by using their two favorite words which are “scammer” (which means anyone who sells pick-up/dating advice) or “snake oil” (which means any pick-up/dating advice that is not given away for free).

Many of these guys are over-reacting to the over-the-top marketing of PUA companies and gregarious gurus from the past several years (I won’t mention any names), whose advertising screams that you can “get any girl you want” and how you can learn to bang 10s after a three day bootcamp or whatever (which, yes, is clearly bullshit, but that doesn’t mean everyone who sells dating material is a liar).

A lot of these guys tend to be anti-capitalist Europeans. Others are guys who have been burned by one or more of the bigger PUA companies. Still others are PUAs themselves who tried to make money selling PUA products at one point, failed, and are now jealous of the ones who actually succeeded.

4. Angry MGTOWs

I split MGTOWs into two very different categories. The first category is the happy, positive MGTOWs, of which I am a part and who I will describe in a minute. The second category, and sadly the larger one, is the angry MGTOWs.

Angry MGTOWs are men who think that pretty much all women are evil and none of them can be trusted, at all, ever. The extreme ones are celibate and actually don’t have sex and just focus on jerking off to porn, which, of course, is insane as it is unhealthy. The less extreme ones say that if you must fuck women, then fine, fuck prostitutes or only have one night stands or similar.

Angry MGTOWs believe that if anyone gets into any type of ongoing relationship with a woman, particularly if you live with her, you’re being “blue pill,” even if you’re open / polyamorous, are having sex with multiple women at all times and are under no financial risk from any breakups. Nope, none of that matters, because women are EVIL and they’re GONNA GET YA!!! AAAHHH!!! WOMEN!!! SCARY!!! RUN AWAY!!!

Angry MGTOWs also think that making more than an absolute minimal amount of money is stupid (because the system, man!) and that the smartest men are the men who purposely stay poor. Yes, I’m serious.

I addressed all the insane concerns of the angry MGTOWs here.

5. Positive MGTOWs

Positive MGTOWs are red pill men who avoid traditional relationships with women, but still have sex with and date women in happy relationships where they are either nonmonogamous or casual, and protected from any financial fallout. They also make good money or at least try to.

I am a positive MGTOW.  Positive MGTOWs are my tribe. I love these guys. The reason they’re in a list of guys who disagree with me (or people like me) is because often these guys will think I’m disagreeing with them, when in fact I am not.

When I attack the angry MGTOWs, I regularly get comments or emails from positive MGTOWs thinking I’m talking about them. They’ll say things like, “Hey BD, why are you bashing MGTOW? I’m a MGTOW, and I have three women on rotation, make six figures, and travel the world. What’s wrong with that?”

Nothing’s wrong with that. I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about your more angry MGTOW brothers, not you. You’re doing everything right. You’re likely Alpha Male 2.0 (which is a type of positive MGTOW). Well done.

6. Tradcons

These are the perpetually angry right-wingers who I talked about here when I talked about Jordan Peterson. These guys live in a constant state of frustration since losing the culture war as they look around their new left-wing world.

They are under the delusion that if people just start getting married, having white babies, and vote for more Republicans, they can turn everything around (which is factually and logistically untrue, but they don’t care).

Because of this delusion, when I tell men to avoid traditional, monogamous marriage because of its inherent dangers, or wait until you’re 40 to have kids, or in some cases don’t have kids at all, these guys fly into a rage and accuse me of destroying Western civilization (regardless of the fact that Western civilization was already well fucked by the time I got here).

The sad thing is that I actually agree with these guys on most fiscal issues. I wrote them a love letter here.

7. Hypersensitive SJWs

I get anger from both the right and the left. The hypersensitive SJWs are always closely watching for anything I say that could be deemed racist or anti-woman so they can “catch” me (even though my son is black, my last serious girlfriend was Asian, my entire Alpha 2.0 philosophy is to let women do whatever they want, etc).

Whenever I talk about big government not working, or Hillary Clinton being a criminal, they get bent out of shape and demonstrate just as much irrationality as the tradcons, if not more so.

Hypersensitive SJW’s overwhelmingly tend to be short-tempered Millennials in their 20s, usually non-white but often European as well.

8. Angry Recently Divorced Guys

I know these guys well because I used to be one myself. These are guys who are victims of monogamy who just went though a problematic divorce from an irrational ex-wife. For about 1-2 years, they can’t think rationally about the subject of living with a woman or marriage. Any time they see anyone attempting something like this (even if its an OLTR one), they start screaming about what a horrible thing the man is doing and how its going to blow up in his face no matter what he does or what precautions he takes.

The good news is that about a year or two after the divorce, most of these guys return to normal (I did) and are able to view the world rationally again. However, some of these guys don’t do this, and become lifetime Angry MGTOWs instead, often flocking to MRA (men’s rights activism) as their new home (and not a happy one).

9. “I Know Everything Because I Went To College!” Guys

These are high-IQ Millennial bookworm types, usually in their twenties, who think they know everything because they’ve been to college and read some books and articles. They almost universally tend to be left-wingers (which shouldn’t surprise anyone).

These are guys who hold hypothetical, utopian beliefs such as the United Nations should run everything, global climate change can be instantly reversed if we just pass a few regulations, gun violence in the US will end if we just pass a few new laws, the welfare state is fantastic, and Bernie Sanders is an economic genius. They think that if the minimum wage is raised it will be a great idea and fix everything because their socialist college professor said so.

They will write long, complicated paragraphs about tiny side-issues in articles or comments they read, and get frustrated when people don’t engage in their pedantic and insane off-topic conversations.

Most of these guys will never make more than $30,000 a year in their entire lives despite their higher intelligence.

Such a shame.

10 “Don’t say ANYTHING bad about my country!” Guys

These are men who think their country (or culture) is near-perfect and the best in the world, and anyone criticizing their country must be instantly and viciously attacked. They are absolutely brainwashed with cultural Societal Programming. Anytime they see any comment or article that contains even one sentence stating something negative about their country or region, even if the statement is 100% factual, these guys uncontrollably leap into the forum or comment section to defend their Perfect Country. If you try to debate them on the facts, they get upset and refuse to do so, continuing to talk about how their country is great and anyone saying anything bad about it is automatically wrong.

I address these men in Chapter 27 of my book, under the section titled “Your Country Sucks.” If I have the objectivity to say my country sucks (which it does, that’s why I’m leaving it) you should be able to do this as well. But the “Don’t say ANYTHING bad about my country!” Guys don’t have the rationality or objectivity to do that.

The worst offenders are Scandinavians, guys who live in Eastern Europe (particularly the ones who moved there on purpose), and American right-wingers, in that order (though there are others, including some men from places like India, Australia, and the UK).

11. Irrational Trump Supporters / Irrational Obama Supporters

When I say Trump or Obama supporters I don’t mean Trump or Obama voters. Lots of guys voted for Trump because they are Republicans or because they didn’t like Hillary. No, I’m not talking about those guys. When I say supporters I’m talking about the tribalists who think Trump is the shit and/or Obama walks on water.

I lump Trump and Obama supporters in the same category because they are the same people. Seriously. They act the exact same way, react the same way, think the same way, say the same things, and use the same excuses. It really is amazing. The only difference is the individual they choose to worship.

Irrational Trump/Obama Supporters are men who worship Trump or Obama regardless of what he does, even if he does things that are the direct opposite of what these men want or of what they promised. When George W. Bush bombed Iraq, Obama Supporters went insane with fury, with calls of impeachment and war crimes. But when Obama started bombing civilians in seven different countries all over the middle east, these guys just shrugged and said he was still a good president.

The same goes for Trump supporters when Trump bombed Syria for no reason, when he didn’t build the wall, or when he fired Steve Bannon. In all these cases, when a rational Trump supporter would stop supporting Trump, they just copied Obama supporters, shrugged, and continued to worship Trump like some kind of god.

Irrational Trump/Obama Supporters have no policies or actual political views even though they pretend to. Instead, they just worship an individual because its fun, and defend that individual regardless of the validity of the criticism leveled against him.

And that’s about it! Most of the anger you see on manosphere sites can be categorized in one or more of the above 11 categories. Do with that what you will.

And by the way, if you’re ready to post an angry comment bashing one of the above types of men, then you’ve missed the entire point of this article, since you will likely be identifying yourself as just another type angry guy on this list.

98 Comments on “The 11 Types of Anger In the Manosphere

  1. I think the issue with №10 is the fact that you don’t care about society and not very patriotic, when most people are, to some degree. It could be just a matter of mentality.

    P.S. I don’t live in Scandinavia but I can’t blame these guys for being defensive – the quality of life in their countries is incredible. No wonder they are proud of their nations.

  2. If you seriously think that SMV is the only factor in determining whether or not a man gets laid with at least cute girls, then you need to explain the chubby homeless guy who was banging all these girls that I talked about here.

    That guy has high SMV, because he is tall. Height is extremely important.

  3. Life maybe not so good for some of the women there though.

    Ah, come on. As with any country, there is crime in Scandinavia (although, crime levels are very low). Scandinavian countries consistently rank top of the list when it comes to the quality of life.

  4. The thing about anger is that it’s most often caused or irritated by outside sources.
    Take a splinter for example.
    Yes,it’s irritating until it’s removed.
    It seems to me you may be saying:
    “It’s not rational to irritated at splinters,just change your mindset.”
    Those of us that have actually come to terms with the ways things are
    have found serenity in being splinter-free.
    Perhaps the splinters should learn from the lowly broccoli sprout,to be tasty and not irritating!
    Oh noes,the splinter Has The Power To Destroy!
    So empowering,why be tasty when you can draw blood?

  5. The splinter analogy was about something a man prefers to live with or without.

    If you want to agree that women aren’t human enough to co-habitate with,that they should just be used like a toilet we could agree.

    On one hand we have women as a commodity:to be bought or fought for.
    OTOH we have women as a sperm dump.Nothing more.

    In both instances,women have made it this way be defining men as The Adversary.

    Perhaps it more of the rape fantasy problem,women ONLY desire the base animal sex,Fighting against the idea of Harmony in Partnership.

    I’m not opposed to compliance with those terms,just that the Police State will Penalize Heavily those who don’t fulfill The Rape Fantasy
    Exactly as pleases women.
    That is the very definition of slavery,not conquest.

    The forces that have been unleashed against men are severely unnatural and thus can be defined as Satanic,or as of Death-Cult known as Feminazism.
    There can be no one-sided Mutual Accord made.
    “A Man’s got realize his limitations”

    There is no fighting it,safety lies in walking away from the minefield,ignore the signs at your own risk.
    That said I’ve enjoyed your blog from the get-go.
    Cudos

  6. That guy has high SMV, because he is tall. Height is extremely important.

    It’s an advantage, but it’s not the be all end all many short guys make it to be. I’m 6’3 | 192cm tall, lean and kinda good looking, but until I learned game, I rarely got laid. Meanwhile, some of the best players I’ve met were rather short.

  7. LOL, at least 3 or 4 types described here are reunited (and concentrated) in that site that is supossed “the kings are returning” 😀

  8. I don’t read the Manosphere much.. although I occasionally pop into the Negro Manosphere..

    However I will say that many of these men aren’t just in there.. They’re at parties and even possibly in your group of friends.

    Many of them are just like the Feminists in that they tear down other men! Like Bitches!

    There are some other sub categories:

    – Angry Short Guys/ I assume tall Guys who claim all men are “beta” who are below a certain height
    – Elitist College or 4 year degree guys or you can’t get a hot chick guy/ I didn’t go to college your stupid cause you did (offshoot of SMV guys)
    – You have to have felony/ tattoos and be a bad boy or else you’re an incel types
    – You have to be steroid buff or you don’t lift (offshoot of the SMV guys)
    – Super Trump Hard Right/Alt Right
    – Super Bernie Alt Left

    The Sex Positive/ Positive MGTOW/ Alpha 2.0 or even Cool Beta/mild Alpha 1.0 are becoming RARE. We are endangered! 

  9. BD,

    You forgot a very important one :  White Trashionalists.

    I mean, Heartiste’s entire commentariat changed from 2009 to now, with none of the same commenters at all, because now it is full of incel White Trashionalists.

    They hate Game since it enables colored men to bed white women.  They are also among the biggest whiteknights ever, and are functionally indistinguishable from feminists (except that they say only white women are above any criticism).

    Those are much more common than any ‘Irrational Trump/Obama supporter’, or even ‘I know everything because I went to college’.   The latter hardly exists in the ‘sphere at all, as such a person would be attacked immediately.

     

     

     

  10. You can smell the anger from miles away😂

    Case in point the chap calling you out on twitter recently for being in an OLTR.

    What ever happened to the concept of “To each his own?”

    I sense similar on self-improvement circles, instead of anger its zealotry and disdain.

    Just shows the other side of the SP/6SV coin

    The solution I’ve applied is to stop consuming the content and fix my life as you suggest.

    Instant lift in mood once removed from the echo chamber by some degrees.

     

     

     

  11. They hate Game since it enables colored men to bed white women.  They are also among the biggest whiteknights ever, and are functionally indistinguishable from feminists (except that they say only white women are above any criticism).

    Not sure about that. Heartiste himself doesn’t seem to give a shit about that, though I stopped reading him a while ago. One of his game-related posts (very likely more recent than 2009) was about an funny ice cream cone routine a turkish guy was running (“can’t shirk the turk” iirc lol). I don’t know about his commenters, but he is himself not anti-game at all, on the contrary. Defo a white supremacist, but while he does talk at length about “Eurabia” themes, he doesn’t seem to care much if nonwhites learn game.

  12. Proud member of the “SMV is everything” camp, but I’m not pissy about it. Knowing that SMV is everything makes me obsessed about creating my own very high levels of SMV: Looking my best, being very well groomed, having very good people skills, being aware of the new “courtship laws” (my term for feminists’ intent to enslave men that scares incels into being angry MGTOW) and adding that to my people skills, confidence, and outcome independence. ALL of this are part of SMV.

    Confidence doesn’t matter at all. Outcome independence doesn’t matter at all. Pick-up skills, dating skills, relationship management skills, and all other woman skills are all “bullshit” and clearly don’t matter either. None of that stuff works, and if you say it does, you’re obviously lying, regardless of the mountains of evidence to the contrary. You have to be gorgeous or rich or else you either can’t get laid or can only get laid with average-looking or ugly women.

    I’ve mentioned this on other threads: That stuff is SMV. There’s no way that it can’t be SMV, those skills and mentalities are directly related to your sexual market value.

    I’m also a proud member of the “PUAs shouldn’t make money” camp. But I’m of the argument that most of them should be making a lot less money than they currently make. I’m not mad enough to where I’m inclined to waste energy going to their networks and trying to “expose” them (If it really meant something to me, I’d try to get them SWATted), but its still a minor annoyance. There is no chance in hell that any PUA should be charging anyone who wants their coaching thousands of dollars just to hang out and hit on chicks with them (that is what is done on an RSD bootcamp and those cost upwards of $5000 for a weekend or so I’ve heard).

    Squattin Casanova does it right. He only charges $1500 for a weekend. And its in Vegas, meaning you would need a good $1500 (at least) to enjoy a weekend in Vegas anyways. He specifically states that in order to take his bootcamp, you need to have all of your other shit handled. RSD and others have been known to completely ignore this.

    You forgot a very important one :  White Trashionalists.

    Do you mean Stormfronters? Those assholes are a combination of the Petersen nuthuggers, the “my nation is better than everyone” group, and the social vengeance warriors. Only unlike most other collectivists who just REEEEE online, stormfronters actually go out of their way to physically make life difficult for others. Of all these hive minds I read about, they actually give me the most concern, as they violently act their ideals out. We can say all we want about the hyper progressive assholes, but most of them just go on nonviolent protests and stuff at worst, and just REEEEE on social media at best.

    For example, I recently trolled an fb group that pinned a tweet from Whitney Cummings (an admitted female supremacist) saying something along the lines of “women have feared men for 6000 years, you’ll get used to it.” And everyone in the group (just a few thousand users I believe, so its 2% shit) just circle jerks themselves in agreement without any real dialogue being shared. To me that’s perfectly fine–they’re just expressing their opinions with a keen interest of protecting their own kind. I’m not forced to be around those very harmless opinions (which I know would be retracted if I were to ever see anyone in that group in person), and I can remove myself from their company if necessary.

    It’s not like that when it comes to Stormfronters. They actively go out and physically make life difficult for anyone who does not agree with their ideals 100%. Haven’t seen that too much with the uber progressive assholes. Not yet anyways.

  13. Antekirtt,

     

    Not sure about that. Heartiste himself doesn’t seem to give a shit about that, though I stopped reading him a while ago. One of his game-related posts (very likely more recent than 2009) was about an funny ice cream cone routine a turkish guy was running (“can’t shirk the turk” iirc lol). 

    You haven’t checked there recently.  He often says that mudsharking and miscegenation are the worst things a white woman can do.  Heartiste himself doesn’t really believe that, but his comments are the most anti-miscegenation bile I have ever seen anywhere.  If you tell that that CH’s own writings have enabled thousands of colored men to bed white women, they will insist that ‘Game does not work if a colored guy tries it on white women’.

    He has no Game commenters anymore.  His commenters are 100% male (that too angry incel Stormfront white trashionalists).

     

  14. That guy has high SMV, because he is tall. Height is extremely important.

    The only reason he got laid was because he was tall?

    You’ve got to be fucking kidding me.

    (But there you go, folks, that’s how “Looks Are All That Matter!” Guys think.)

    It seems to me you may be saying:
    “It’s not rational to irritated at splinters,just change your mindset.”

    Only partially. I’m saying, pull the splinter out of yourself and your close loved ones, then stop worrying about other people’s splinters and go build a great life.

    You forgot a very important one :  White Trashionalists.

    They fall under the Tradcon or Irrational Donald Trump Supporter category.

    Case in point the chap calling you out on twitter recently for being in an OLTR.

    No idea what you’re talking about. I have an automated Twitter posting feed but don’t pay attention to Twitter much otherwise (I’m too busy). Regardless, I’m not sure someone can “call me out” for something I’ve already announced myself. (This term “call out” is almost always incorrectly used.)

    I’ve mentioned this on other threads: That stuff is SMV.

    If you believe that then you’re not my definition of “SMV is everything!” Guy. To them, a learned social skill is not SMV and has nothing to do with it.

  15. They fall under the Tradcon or Irrational Donald Trump Supporter category.

    I think they are much more numerous than that (as they are the central audience at Heartiste now and a large part of RoK), plus, their economic views are very socialist and they are not very pro-Trump (Trump was never a WN and never wanted to stop legal immigration).  Many in fact supported Bernie Sanders.

    At Heartiste, some commenters actually post pictures of pregnant white women for other commenters to jerk off to.  Plus, this had become a bonafide goddess cult (some of the more extreme incels even insist that white women don’t poop and have other supernatural abilities).  They also say that cuckolding and other paternity fraud is OK if it produces a white baby :

    http://www.antifeministtech.info/2011/04/white-nationalism-is-a-goddess-cult/

    http://www.antifeministtech.info/2011/11/white-nationalists-want-white-women-to-trap-white-women-with-oops-pregnancies/

    I would say that they deserve their own category, as they have said the outright weirdest things I have seen heard anyone in the manosphere say.

     

  16. I think they are much more numerous than that (as they are the central audience at Heartiste now and a large part of RoK), plus, their economic views are very socialist and they are not very pro-Trump (Trump was never a WN and never wanted to stop legal immigration).

    I addressed that. They support Trump even if they don’t support what he does (which, yes, is fundamentally irrational).

    Many in fact supported Bernie Sanders.

    Incorrect. A teeny tiny few supported Sanders. The vast majority hate him as much as they hate Hillary.

    I would say that they deserve their own category

    They don’t. They are indeed within the Tradcon or Irrational Trump Supporter category.

    as they have said the outright weirdest things I have seen heard anyone in the manosphere say

    Yup, agree.

    As I’ve said many times, left-wingers have always been insane, and now the right has also lost its mind. It’s sad.

    (But again, I stopped giving a shit about this circus many years ago.)

  17. I dont know bro.  Once you move in with a woman, AND get married, I think its time to hand over the MGTOW card.

  18. I wasn’t even aware there was such a thing as positive MGTOWs. I looked into MGTOW a few years ago, and all I found were very bitter men, who might have had good reason to be bitter, but didn’t seem to have any positive, productive course of action to offer.

    On a different note, I think you’re missing one type in your list: men who think there are plenty of decent women but who absolutely loathe SJWs. I would be in that group. Problem is, the rampant misandry I see gets me so angry that it seriously darkens my overall mood, saps my energy, and sucks up my time with endless online arguments. I would really like to hear your thoughts on how to deal with this shit without letting it poison your life.

  19. I dont know bro.  Once you move in with a woman, AND get married, I think its time to hand over the MGTOW card.

    OLTR Marriage you mean. Either way, it’s not a label I need nor give a shit about.

    I wasn’t even aware there was such a thing as positive MGTOWs. I looked into MGTOW a few years ago, and all I found were very bitter men, who might have had good reason to be bitter, but didn’t seem to have any positive, productive course of action to offer.

    Positive MGTOWs are A) the exception to the rule and B) the ones who read the MGTOW sites rather than comment on them. So you’re not going to actually see them on these sites (but they’re there).

    men who think there are plenty of decent women but who absolutely loathe SJWs. I would be in that group.

    Tradcons (and other right-wingers).

    Problem is, the rampant misandry I see gets me so angry that it seriously darkens my overall mood, saps my energy, and sucks up my time with endless online arguments. I would really like to hear your thoughts on how to deal with this shit without letting it poison your life.

    STOP. READING. THAT. STUPID. SHIT. I certainly don’t. I have better things to do.

    You have control over what you read and what you listen to. Use it.

  20. STOP. READING. THAT. STUPID. SHIT.

    Yeah, you’re right, that’s a necessary step, but I don’t think it’s sufficient. We live in a sea of misandry and female chauvinism; you can’t really avoid it any more than a fish can avoid water, not unless you want to live as a hermit in the woods.

  21. If you believe that then you’re not my definition of “SMV is everything!” Guy. To them, a learned social skill is not SMV and has nothing to do with it.

    Got it. I think I was getting some heat on former posts about this. I’m happy at least you and I are clear on this, BD.

    While I do believe SMV is everything for a man, I also believe that everything a man says/does/acts is SMV. Every last thing. To steal an incel term, your goal in life is to be as close to Chad as possible. This means making lists of every trait you have that could be affecting SMV and improving upon it. Just going “cope or rope” because you aren’t 6’2” is no way to go through life.

    How are learned social skills/personality traits/strategies/mindsets/habits NOT SMV? To me, they are every bit as important as looks/money/status if not more important.

    We live in a sea of misandry and female chauvinism; you can’t really avoid it any more than a fish can avoid water, not unless you want to live as a hermit in the woods.

    Can you give examples of how unavoidable this is? Cuz I haven’t dealt with it once. Sure society is taught to distrust men but to me that’s a good thing. Cuz then when you become a good dude that people can trust all of a sudden you can win any crowd over.

    And what is this “female chauvinism” you speak of? To me that means that chicks are running around belligerently hitting on guys the way some guys run around belligerently hitting on chicks. Where’s that in my life? I want chicks to hit on me!

    The Manosphere act EXACTLY like the social vengeance warriors they like to mock so much. I see literally the same patterns.

    If your screen name is accurate, you need to do as BD says and quit reading pissy manosphere faggotry and start developing Alpha 2 traits. Look at the shit around you, and accept, adapt, and adjust to it.

    For example, the #MeToo thing. The manosphere likes to hate on it because they think it means chicks want men to be paranoid. That’s hilariously wrong, and exposes most of the manosphere for the emotional beta faggots they truly are. Because for the first time ever this “movement” has allowed us to talk about sex casually and it is one more thing that has removed the taboos that religion has placed on talking about sex for millennia. I’ve been able to talk about sex with chicks SECONDS after meeting them because of the current events surrounding this. This gives me a very powerful edge. When I’m with a chick and things are getting sexual and intense, I can be like “yo, you aren’t gonna #MeToo me after this, are you? Cuz that would be rather unpleasant.”

    This means that groups of chicks are singling themselves out now. Chicks who act like Whitney Cummings are giving themselves away. Guess what? That removes really shitty guesswork that I had to do 15 years ago. 15 years ago, you often had to discover that a chick was a female supremacist asshole while hanging out. Then you’d disagree with their collectivist rage, and awkwardly end the date. Because the internet now gives us away, that isn’t necessary anymore.

    This also means I can adjust my actions as necessary, because the women’s groups who talk about this are DIRECTLY TELLING MEN WHAT NOT TO DO.

    It’s not like they’re saying “I’m sick of guys having conversations with me, they should all die” which is what the manosphere paints this stuff as. 2% of these women’s groups (which, AGAIN, are giving themselves away) say that. The other majority are saying “I’m sick of guys telling me I should smile more, they should get locked up.” Difference. And even that kind of musing is very rare.

    All this means is that I need to make an adjustment. Another thing, unlike the manosphere fantasizes, feminist assholes who truly believe all men should die just for possessing a cock n balls represent maybe 2%…of their own circles. Which means among the general population they are literally 1 in 1000. But leave it to incels and the manosphere to paint all women that way because their game is weak and they are too retarded to relate to other human beings who don’t believe in the collectivist faggotry they believe in.

    To them I say keep at it. It’s not my energy you’re wasting.

  22. Can you give examples of how unavoidable this [misandry and female chauvinism] is?

    The movies are full of highly negative depictions of men. Virtually every child abuser in the movies is a man, even though the  majority of child abusers in real life are women. Fathers in the movies are more often than not horrible people, and protagonists very often hate their fathers — while the mothers are noble and sacrificing. If there’s a contest between a man and a woman in a movie or TV episode, I know immediately how it will end: the woman will win. In the Simpsons, the males (Homer and Bart) are aggressively stupid and actively vile, whereas the females are either good natured (Marge) or highly intelligent and the model of ethical behavior (Lisa). This is a typical pattern. The Last Jedi was a hatefest towards men. If a TV commercial requires a stupid or foolish character, 90-95% of the time it will be a man. So if I want to avoid this shit, I have to avoid the movies, TV, and radio.

    Although male-only organizations are nearly completely prohibited, I constantly see events and groups that are restricted to women because presumably because men are lepers or something. A lot of the legal psilocybin retreats (foreign, of course) are no-men-allowed events. A local hiking meetup constantly has events that are no-men-allowed. At my work I am constantly bombarded with announcements about yet another women-only opportunity. When my son was in high school I lost track of the number of educational opportunities in tech he was denied by virtue of being a boy. Et cetera.

    As for female chauvinism, I am constantly hearing women casually asserting their superiority over men in ways that would cause a huge stink if anyone made such claims in favor of men.

    Don’t know how to avoid these last two groups without withdrawing from society altogether.

    Sure society is taught to distrust men but to me that’s a good thing.

    Being presumed guilty until proven innocent — or even after being proven innocent — is a good thing? Men are being systematically stripped of any semblance of due process if accused by a woman.

    So the question for me is, how do I get on with my life in a world that is incredibly hostile to men and which I can’t change?

  23. The problem for me is libraries have whole shelves of self help books that people donate because they are no help at all.  Write 200 pages of “try harder” filler,  slap an exaggerated title on and market the f*** out of it.  Worthless.  Now there are hundreds of internet PUAs doing the same thing.  I see no evidence that they know more about dating than anyone else.  Do they even have girlfriends, or do they hire models to pretend?  Like the chicks that work at convention booths to draw attention.

    It all started with Mystery and Style, who are both betas.  Mystery is such a loser, he almost committed suicide.  Style gets oneitis for chicks.  Yet these guys are PUAs???

    The author of this blog seems to be an expert at everything.  Not just PUA, but business, marketing, entrepreneurship, government, science, investment, and probably a lot I’ve forgotten.  Know it all’s are annoying because you can never convince them of anything.  Of course, because they know more than you do.

     

  24. So if I want to avoid this shit, I have to avoid the movies, TV, and radio.

     

    Many people, including me, do so, and their lives are much better for it.

  25. No idea what you’re talking about. I have an automated Twitter posting feed but don’t pay attention to Twitter much otherwise (I’m too busy). Regardless, I’m not sure someone can “call me out” for something I’ve already announced myself. (This term “call out” is almost always incorrectly used.)

    Thanks for the correction BD.

    The individual was making fun of you letting your women be free to do whatever they want.

    Another thing about the manosphere, close-mindednes to other peoples methods.

    Only objective, effective guys I know when it comes to women are you and GLL.

     

  26. How to get away from rampant man-hating:

    Your male friends who publish heart-felt feminist posts begging pardon for being men? Don’t browse social media.

    The philosopher whose interview is headlined with “Men are retarded”? Don’t read mainstream media

    The man-baby chastised by women in a movie? Laugh loudly at it, like it’s the whole point of the movie. Also, don’t go to the movies.

    There, I saved you several hours per week that you can use to get further ahead in life.

    Bonus: All the girls who describe themselves as feminist (and are generally fugly) on Tinder? Go to another country. I sure am glad I left Spain!

  27. Bonus: All the girls who describe themselves as feminist (and are generally fugly) on Tinder? Go to another country. I sure am glad I left Spain!

    @Shura: any country suggestions? I am not (yet) trying to escape the West till I’m more convinced that it’s collapsing soon, but medium-term I’d like to pick a western/latin country that is good on the woman level without being too conservative.

  28. Quick question author,

    i once hung out with three(3) different girls per day thanks to OI mindset. however, almost every night/day i came back home i felt a sense of fatigue, does it mean i haven’t ”internalize” the game concept yet, or it’s just matter of time or how many girls should i go out interact with so that every interaction is potentially to be LEAST effortless and fun.

    i can relate to any sport, it’s like swimming, i was using MORE effort for each stroke.

    p/s: im not complaining, still taking actions, those game denialist is foolish, b/c almost everything in life involves a little bit of manipulation. Game = sales, sales = game.

    The art of persuasion has to be learned.

     

  29. While I do believe SMV is everything for a man, I also believe that everything a man says/does/acts is SMV. 

    This is where you are wrong though. I might be sleeping on the couch of my mom’s house have few hundred dollars on my name, working at McDonald’s but be able to bang hot women left and right.

    How is this high SmV? Explain

  30. i once hung out with three(3) different girls per day thanks to OI mindset. however, almost every night/day i came back home i felt a sense of fatigue

    I experienced precisely that. Maybe, like me, you are not a Thrill of the Hunt man. It’s normal. Many good things in life require effort. Just make sure it’s the right kind of fatigue, where you are positive that you can get what you want reliably in a reasonable timeframe, and where you are inspired to take further action until success.

  31. I’ve just been alerted to a new term going along the lines of the “SMV is Everything” guys and Looks is Everything” guys.

    Gymcels

    We’ve seen em!

  32. Yeah, you’re right, that’s a necessary step, but I don’t think it’s sufficient. We live in a sea of misandry and female chauvinism; you can’t really avoid it any more than a fish can avoid water, not unless you want to live as a hermit in the woods.

    How do you explain me then? It doesn’t affect my happiness at all, I’m the happiest guy in the world, and I live on the same planet and probably the same country as you.

    How are learned social skills/personality traits/strategies/mindsets/habits NOT SMV?

    A man who is average looking, no money, and not ripped but who has great woman skills is still considered low SMV by society and women, despite the fact he can get laid.

    So the question for me is, how do I get on with my life in a world that is incredibly hostile to men and which I can’t change?

    1. Shift your focus on your own life instead of the world.

    2. Stop giving a shit.

    (I have a strong feeling you are unwilling to do either of those things.)

    The author of this blog seems to be an expert at everything.  Not just PUA, but business, marketing, entrepreneurship, government, science, investment, and probably a lot I’ve forgotten.

    Not true at all but I wish. I’m an expert at women and business, that’s it.

    I’m decent with investments but no expert (I’ve lost money this year). I am not an expert at government or science at all; I’ve just read a little about those things.

    Ask me a question about how to fix my car, or replace a window, or about sports, or martial arts, or alcohol,  and you’ll quickly see how stupid I am. I’m a fuckin’ moron regarding most normal topics.

    The individual was making fun of you letting your women be free to do whatever they want.

    Cool. I wonder how many women this individual has had sex with in the last 30 days. I’ve fucked four. I also wonder how hot the women he’s having sex with are (if any).

    Only objective, effective guys I know when it comes to women are you and GLL.

    Chris is a good guy.

    i once hung out with three(3) different girls per day thanks to OI mindset. however, almost every night/day i came back home i felt a sense of fatigue, does it mean i haven’t ”internalize” the game concept yet, or it’s just matter of time or how many girls should i go out interact with so that every interaction is potentially to be LEAST effortless and fun.

    Because three women in one day is way too fucking many, dude. I would never do that. Jesus. (I usually see two per week.)

    The goal is to have the minimum number of women in your life to make you happy so you can focus on your Mission and other things. It’s not to blow your brains out with mountains of pussy. That’s stupid (unless you’re very young and/or an extreme Thrill of the Hunt guy).

  33. I’m a fuckin’ moron regarding most normal topics.

    But you’re smart enough to know what you’re not good at and concentrate your effort in the areas where you are knowledgeable.

    The smartest people are the ones who know the boundaries of their own ignorance.

  34. But you’re smart enough to know what you’re not good at and concentrate your effort in the areas where you are knowledgeable.

    Precisely.

  35. Because three women in one day is way too fucking many, dude. I would never do that. Jesus. (I usually see two per week.)

    I thought he was referring to three dates with new women.

    Seeing three existing women in the same day is surely overkill. Unless it’s all three at the same time in the same bed, now that would be good time management : )

  36. Youngun, we get it; you don’t like PUA’s. It doesn’t change the fact however,  that it’s helped loads of guys get better with women. The guys who get angry because they don’t get results, tend not to have Social Calibration or understand how to successfully transition from being a nice guy who can hold a conversation into a sexual guy who can break rapport, trade & flirt. Pick-up isn’t the problem, it’s the guy not understanding the sexual dynamics behind it, just thinking he can do a few Jedi mind tricks and he’ll be drowning in pussy.

  37. GLL debunks everything you say about SMV

    Incorrect. I just read that entire article and I don’t disagree with his thesis in any way. He said “Game cannot compensate for a significant lack physical attractiveness.” That’s right. If you’re an ugly fuck, game isn’t going to help. I’ve said that myself. But if you’re an average-looking guy, it will help.

    He says “This is not to suggest, as some argue, that all “game” outside of confidence has no impact whatsoever on sexual tension. It has a small effect.” Again, correct. Game without confidence won’t help very much, as I’ve said a million times. You need confidence and outcome independence. Then game skills help. But not before.

    Answer this question: Two men who are both identical in appearance and average-looking, about a 6 in physical appearance. Guy A has zero confidence, zero outcome independence, and zero game. Guy B has tons of confidence, tons of outcome Independence, and tons of game / dating skills. Will Guy B get laid more often and/or with hotter women, or will these two men be getting laid exactly the same with no difference whatsoever?

    I already know the answer.

  38. As I said, self help books are over marketed garbage.

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes? : )

    It’s just that different men are confronted with different challenges. One is looking for specific techniques, another needs an encouraging nudge etc.

    Only lately have I realized how different people can be. It’s very likely the books you read just weren’t for you.

    The overmarketed part seems true though—according to Wikipedia, top 3 best-selling non-fiction books are all self-help books : )

  39. Blackdragon writes:

    1. Shift your focus on your own life instead of the world.

    2. Stop giving a shit.

    (I have a strong feeling you are unwilling to do either of those things.)

    Your feeling is incorrect, as is your assumption that I’m a tradcon (I’m hardcore libertarian.) Some recent experiences have convinced me that I make myself unnecessarily miserable, and I think your advice is an important part of what I need to do. It fits in with changes I’m already trying to make, but I’m finding it to be a difficult process; I can’t just flip some “give a shit” switch from on to off.

    To be clear, I’m not throwing up my hands and giving up. The strategies I’m already pursuing (such as meditation and identifying where I first went wrong when I fuck up) may suffice. I’m just looking for every angle that can improve my chances of success.

  40. The movies are full of highly negative depictions of men.

    And? How does this affect me? My IQ isn’t low enough to take movies (or any kind of entertainment) as gospel.

    Virtually every child abuser in the movies is a man

    Which is weak sauce, but it does give me information on how not to act towards people. Alright, don’t act the way abusers in the movies act. Done.

    even though the  majority of child abusers in real life are women. 

    I believe you, but unlike every other collectivist asshole out there, I have zero emotional stake in “stopping abusive mothers.” I’d rather spend my energy helping people who have been affected so that they can recover this way their light can shine. Abusive assholes are gonna be abusive assholes, no matter what genitalia they happen to possess. Stopping them is a waste of energy.

    So if I want to avoid this shit, I have to avoid the movies, TV, and radio.

    So just enjoy entertainment from back in the day or current stuff that doesn’t depict dudes as stupid assholes. It’s out there. Or even better, watch some Alpha 2 stuff and listen to Alpha 2 podcasts. Joining BD’s SMIC would be a good start 😉

    As for female chauvinism, I am constantly hearing women casually asserting their superiority over men

    You’re “hearing” about it. Have you physically experienced it? Do you experience it often? Is it a constant inconvenience? If it was everywhere, then I’d be like “yeah that sucks.” But it isn’t everywhere. And chicks who want to act like that give themselves away.

    I constantly see events and groups that are restricted to women because presumably because men are lepers or something.

    That seems like a legit concern, although it isn’t relevant to me. It’s 1 of probably 1000 things actually worth pursuing an external solution for.

    Men are being systematically stripped of any semblance of due process if accused by a woman.

    While that totally sucks and WILL get worse going into the 2020s to the point where there won’t be any trials for men who get accused of stuff by a chick (which is why I’m off to Southeast Asia sometime during the 2020s), at least the offenses are REALLY clear. No catcalling, groping, dick pics, or assuming a chick wants sex if she doesn’t resist you; physically ask if she wants sex first. Done deal, I never had an interest in doing such asshole things anyways.

    how do I get on with my life in a world that is incredibly hostile to men and which I can’t change?

    You accept it, adapt to it, adjust to it, and do you. “Doing you” isn’t a crime yet, although the way western culture worships collectivism and external solutions, it soon will be.

    Great, now I’m catastrophizing lol.

  41. It fits in with changes I’m already trying to make, but I’m finding it to be a difficult process; I can’t just flip some “give a shit” switch from on to off.

    To be clear, I’m not throwing up my hands and giving up. The strategies I’m already pursuing (such as meditation and identifying where I first went wrong when I fuck up) may suffice. I’m just looking for every angle that can improve my chances of success.

    Good; I’m glad to be mistaken. Read this.

  42. Answer this question:Two men who are both identical in appearance and average-looking, about a 6 in physical appearance. Guy A has zero confidence, zero outcome independence, and zero game. Guy B has tons of confidence, tons of outcome Independence, and tons of game / dating skills. Will Guy B get laid more often and/or with hotter women, or will these two men be getting laid exactly the same with no difference whatsoever?

    Or two 15 yo boys decide they want to play tennis. They are the same in every way. Physically, intelligence, size…..Everything! They both join the same tennis competition. One teaches himself and just plays as best he can, the other hires an elite level A grade coach to help him with his overall game. Which one do you reckon becomes the better player?

    It blows my mind that in every other area of life its clear that coaching, experience and knowledge can help anyone get better at something. Yet guys continually fight and argue to prove that there is absolutely no way you can learn to do better with women.

    Maybe its true for guys who think like this. Maybe they are just too dumb to learn new shit! 😀

  43. It blows my mind that in every other area of life its clear that coaching, experience and knowledge can help anyone get better at something. Yet guys continually fight and argue to prove that there is absolutely no way you can learn to do better with women.

    Exactly.

    It’s lazy thinking. When a guy can’t get laid it’s easier to think it’s impossible for an average guy to get laid with a cute girl unless me makes a million dollars or gets a six pack. It excuses laziness.

    Being a victim is so much easier.

  44. BD and joelsuf: thanks for the feedback. I have one last comment that may be relevant to some segment of the readership here. I’ve come to realize that the reason the SJW shit gets me so hot under the collar is that it feels like a personal attack, and pattern matches to some ugly experiences in my past. I suspect something similar may occur with many other men. Looking for ways to defuse that feeling is on my agenda. Perhaps the ideas here will prove useful:

    Keep Your Identity Small

  45. I’ve come to realize that the reason the SJW shit gets me so hot under the collar is that it feels like a personal attack, and pattern matches to some ugly experiences in my past. I suspect something similar may occur with many other men. Looking for ways to defuse that feeling is on my agenda.

    Therapy. Get some.

  46. @Antekirtt

    I live in san diego and speak spanish.  My income kicks ass, but it REALLY makes a difference when I hop the border.  Im 35, so call me a creep, but the bars in MX are full of 18 yr old chicks anxious for a dude who can just afford bottle service ( $40 bucks lol.)  Many are ashamed that they cant speak english since its required at most high profile jobs.  Life has been awesome since i realized this.  I assume other border towns have a similar phenomena.  Regardless if you can ball, are good looking, or wealthy, or not… a few trips to latin america will really take the edge off.  Colombia, DR, Tijuana come to mind.  In fact, “strip clubs” outside of the US offer a little more than just eye candy, if you catch my drift. This factor alone can make an enormous difference in a guy’s self esteem.  Many times we judge ourselves based on women’s perception of us, which is totally irrational, especially from  a woman in the West.  For example, I was born in Ohio.  Im 6’ tall , but all my friends were taller.  I was a nobody there.  Then in socal, I was taller than avg, but in Latin America, Im a god.  Just start taking trips and see where you’re treated best.  In the US , women have an issue with older guys, foreign guys, or guys with accents sometimes.  In other countries, its not a big deal.

     

  47. Or two 15 yo boys decide they want to play tennis. They are the same in every way. Physically, intelligence, size…..Everything! They both join the same tennis competition. One teaches himself and just plays as best he can, the other hires an elite level A grade coach to help him with his overall game. Which one do you reckon becomes the better player?

    It blows my mind that in every other area of life its clear that coaching, experience and knowledge can help anyone get better at something. Yet guys continually fight and argue to prove that there is absolutely no way you can learn to do better with women.

    Nice analogy, Marty! (I coach tennis part time :)) As a guy who gets paid for a coaching service, I always sigh when I read guys saying stuff about how advice to get better with women, should be free and not charged for. If you’ve spent time & effort in getting good at what you do and want to help other guys, you should be remunerated for it.

    Exactly.

    It’s lazy thinking. When a guy can’t get laid it’s easier to think it’s impossible for an average guy to get laid with a cute girl unless me makes a million dollars or gets a six pack. It excuses laziness.

    Being a victim is so much easier.

    It is lazy thinking and I also think on a subconscious level there’s Inadequacy issues, linked also to what I mentioned above about men thinking that advice and coaching on how to get better with women, shouldn’t be charged for.

    Guys who moan & whine about PUA/Self help not working, do so because men feel that it’s hard wired into their DNA that they should be good at getting girls or at the very least be as good as the next guy.

    By not achieving even some success, they seek to justify their failure by convincing themselves that the ‘pot of gold’ which would transform them into mega studs, should be given out free to everyone and not kept back for money, by ‘evil’ pua’s.

     

     

  48. @Antekirtt I’m no expert. I went to Cyprus and am loving it, but I have been lucky to find a (just cute) girl who has always been outside the rampant societal programming of this island.

    So you can get an idea: One day, at 30 years old, one of her pupils’ mother came unsolicited to her house to offer setting her up with some cousin that was still single, like her.

    Also, take in count that in countries like this, night game is still king.

  49. Yo @David Its Kind Im like 5 yrs younger than u and would like to meet u man. Can you send your email or facebook maybe we can meetup in SD or TJ sometime. I feel your thoughts man I currently live in LA and trying to move to SD soon and maybe even Tijuana because you can  save so much on housing expenses in TJ its mind boggling and its a blessing to have close access to Tijuana. I have a friend who actually lives in TJ and works in San Diego that crosses the border almost everyday. Tijuana and Latin America etc promotes a sexually friendly culture unlike the United States, Canada, Uk etc which promotes a gynocentric negative sexual culture which is reaching peak levels with this metoo, Bill cosby, weinstein etc type stuff going on especially in U.S . It seems like the laws and culture overall in Tijuana, Latin America etc make women seem more realer and fun while the gynocentric laws in United States, Canada etc make women more fake and less pleasant to deal with overall. Its similiar to Durant and Demarcus Cousins going to Warriors to stack the deck in their favor to Win Championships and have fun when you go from U.S to Tijuana,  Latin America nongynocentric countries etc the game is easier on men to win Championships when dealing with women. Women in U.S play more games and likes to waste dudes time more. I doubt dating coaches exist in Tijuana, Brazil, Colombia type Places. No way they could make profit like some do in gynocentic countries like the U.S lol.

  50. Answer this question:Two men who are both identical in appearance and average-looking, about a 6 in physical appearance. Guy A has zero confidence, zero outcome independence, and zero game. Guy B has tons of confidence, tons of outcome Independence, and tons of game / dating skills. Will Guy B get laid more often and/or with hotter women, or will these two men be getting laid exactly the same with no difference whatsoever?

    I agree 100% with you BD, but I feel like this (famous) thought experiment can be taken the wrong way by many (theres no way they are 100% equal in looks etc. the usual arguments).

    Instead, what I like telling guys is : “ok, you are ugly, and only sleeps with 4s occasionally. Then do you agree that by learning game (basically learning to be confident, non-needy, teasing being funny etc.), you could sleep with 5s and the occasional 6? If you do not agree with it, then you are delusional. Game allows you to upgrade the quality/quantity of girls you get, compared to the you without game”.

    I feel like people understand better this way!

    Anyway, great article, very interesting. I was pretty surprised that all these types of guys exist tbh. That is what I liked about old-school PuA : if you did not go out and approach, you did not have the right to an opinion. Nowadays it is unfortunately not the case.

  51. I’ve come to realize that the reason the SJW shit gets me so hot under the collar is that it feels like a personal attack, and pattern matches to some ugly experiences in my past.

    I’m with BD here: You should get some counseling. I struggled with the same thing. Got framed for harassment in high school just cuz I was being a creepy weirdo. It wrote the propaganda in my brain that all chicks do that. Made me feel like a victim.

    Like I keep repeating, collectivist assholes like social vengeance warriors who are just out to protect their own kind give themselves away. It is very easy to spot them. Being afraid of their actions or assuming that their actions are indicative of the actions of ALL chicks means that they have conquered you.

    That is what I liked about old-school PuA : if you did not go out and approach, you did not have the right to an opinion. Nowadays it is unfortunately not the case.

    lol it’s almost reversed now, to where if you DO approach you have no right to an opinion, or you’re “making it up.” Or you’re “coping.”

    Its like the incels have taken over PUAism. I imagine they’ll be taking over the manosphere as well.

    night game is still king.

    Because of all the retardedness surrounding online game, its making a comeback. For me its all about day game tho. There’s a lot less pressure during day game, and mocking the assholes who catcall is actually a hilarious and effective way to break the ice.

  52. Regards to #1 I am not rich, 49,  and have had to turn down dates with 2 24 year olds (one was actually pissed) in the last 3 months.  Get hit on by VYW (18 was the last) Not ripped, have a 10 year old car, shaved head but I play to a type.  Clean, walk like I’m the shit, slick neat dresser, strong, Alpha, enormous confidence, and downright cocky at times.  Dismissive towards guys (in a competitive setting only) but a gentlemen, cute, and respectful but aggressive towards women I want to fuck.  Basically try to act and look like James Bond arch type which works for me..  All things I had to learn thru BD’s advice.  It’s like fishing with dynamite….  There’s no question SMV is not everything.

  53. What about guys who have put their consciences in the deep freeze, because from a young age they realized that to feel is to care, and it hurt too much to care?

     

    So instead of having the normal vulnerability and full range of emotions, they started to act like they were above all that noise, and that they had some special insight into human character, and that, Spock-like, they could place themselves outside the human experience, and objectively analyze it all in a way that most people couldn’t.

     

    And they have masked their estrangement even from themselves, but it is in this estrangement, in this lack of engagement, they have found a huge freedom, and their energies are freed up for many things, now that they no longer get emotionally engaged in people and ideas.

     

    And now there is nothing left to do but chuckle, and dispassionately catalogue all the ways that other people’s emotions hold them back.

     

     

  54. Positive MGTOWs are A) the exception to the rule and B) the ones who read the MGTOW sites rather than comment on them. So you’re not going to actually see them on these sites (but they’re there).

    I’m one of these positive MGTOW’s; didn’t know this was a thing. I started reading their stuff back when they started mgtow.com around 2014. I probably read them for a little less than a year, then it started to get too repetitive. I still read them occasionally, and I actually root for them in their quest for abating their natural instincts. I’ll be like “hell yeah, don’t give them any attention, sex, friendship, or help them with anything. Starve them bitches!”All these guys pretty much just repeat the same shit:

    From age 18-25… I was too poor or enlisted, to be able to afford my own living space like an apartment. I blamed my lack of sex and bad luck with women on the fact that I had had no

    place to take them. What woman will date you long term when you don’t even have an apartment to take her for sex, or to live with her in…

    Now that I’m 32, been living alone for 5 years, paying a mortgage on a nice condo, (so I finally have the place to ‘take her to’ right?) WRONG! Now Im too protective of my tranquility and peace, my precious assets and my personal space. there is no way I will let some bitch start receiving mail at my address! Im hesitant to even let one in the door to be honest, I dont want the c~~~s in my house!

    So Im back at square one I guess. LOL. They never gave me affection, sex or love for twenty years of my youth!!! So they can forget about it going forward. I already survived the abuse and neglect of women. They left me sexless for my youth. THEY TRAINED ME ON HOW TO LIVE WITHOUT THEM. So now that they want me. FORGET ABOUT IT.

    MGTOW FOR LIFE. MONK

    It is through that site and other similar sites though, that I’ve come to the conclusion that women simply react to their environment (betas). The betas created a monster that leaves men with very few viable options for long term female companionship. Short term non-committal sex-based relationships (as in 3 months to about two three years) is the only logical alternative These sex negative mgtows don’t want to put in the effort, and or can’t stand women’s personalities, to procure these relationships and I honestly can’t blame them. At least they have a way to release their anger with the current situation though.

    @ David, stop mentioning the secret spot! Just kidding mostly, but I’m seriously considering a move to SD/TJ. Cheap living, access to beautiful feminine women, and most importantly access to the money of the US.

  55. D. Beguiled – I’ve been patient with you but now I’m tired of your ad hominems. If you want to be a Bible-worshiping Christian, that’s fine, but don’t personally insult those who are not and don’t want to be. One more ad hominem, even a veiled one, or one more “demand,” and I will ban you from this blog permanently. Thanks.

  56. You were wrong about Romney winning in 2012 and you’re wrong about Trump. When did Obama put tariffs on China and have a peace summit with North Korea? That’s what I thought. And no actual Trump supporter gives a fuck about Steve Bannon (who still supports Trump, btw). Dunno why you are so irrationally against Trump. In many ways, he seems like he’d be your ideal candidate.

  57. The movies are full of highly negative depictions of men. Virtually every child abuser in the movies is a man, even though the  majority of child abusers in real life are women. Fathers in the movies are more often than not horrible people, and protagonists very often hate their fathers — while the mothers are noble and sacrificing. If there’s a contest between a man and a woman in a movie or TV episode, I know immediately how it will end: the woman will win. In the Simpsons, the males (Homer and Bart) are aggressively stupid and actively vile, whereas the females are either good natured (Marge) or highly intelligent and the model of ethical behavior (Lisa). This is a typical pattern. The Last Jedi was a hatefest towards men. If a TV commercial requires a stupid or foolish character, 90-95% of the time it will be a man. So if I want to avoid this shit, I have to avoid the movies, TV, and radio.

    Stop watching crappy shows and movies. Theres lots of good ones that arent like this.

    When my son was in high school I lost track of the number of educational opportunities in tech he was denied by virtue of being a boy. Et cetera.

    Thats highly illegal and you can take them to court over this and get a huge some of money from them. They have no chance of winning.

    As for female chauvinism, I am constantly hearing women casually asserting their superiority over men in ways that would cause a huge stink if anyone made such claims in favor of men.

    Anyone who has the need to announce it is clearly insecure and thereby not superior at all. Those who truly believe / know it have no need of announcing it. I would say either laugh or feel pitty for them.

     

     

  58. I’d like to add one one small category of angry manosphere types in the seduction community:

    The My Game is the only real Game types

    These are the men who practice one form of seduction, and get very angry when other men have success with other forms.

    For example, *some* of the guys who practice cold approach get particularly incensed by online game -angrily insisting that all the women are ugly, and that guys who practice it are lazy losers.

     

    PS.  FYI, I had to re-enter the name and email fields…maybe that’s broken again?

  59. You were wrong about Romney winning in 2012 and you’re wrong about Trump.

    My accurate predictions far outweigh my mistakes (of which I have made many, granted), and one thing has nothing to do with the other.

    When did Obama put tariffs on China and have a peace summit with North Korea? That’s what I thought.

    Correct, I think Trump handled North Korea extremely well. We have no disagreement there; not sure why you think we do.

    And no actual Trump supporter gives a fuck about Steve Bannon

    Incorrect. Go read the comments on the angry alt-right sites.

    Dunno why you are so irrationally against Trump.

    I’m not, and if you think I am, you don’t know how to read. I absolutely love his tax cuts, really like how he handled North Korea, liked that he’s cut a bunch of silly regulations, and love how he calls out the press.

    And, at the same time, he’s also a lying, big-government, pro-war corporatist which is a serious problem. If you don’t believe me then read this.

    Good and bad. It’s called being rational and objective. You might want to try it sometime.

    In many ways, he seems like he’d be your ideal candidate.

    A guy who is maintaining eight different useless wars with my tax dollars and has jacked up government spending by hundreds of billions (if not a trillion or more) is not anywhere near my ideal candidate and never could be no matter who well he does handling a country like North Korea. I’m a libertarian. Trump is for big government. And if you support him, so are you.

    I’d like to add one one small category of angry manosphere types in the seduction community:

    The My Game is the only real Game types

    Haha, yes, I know exactly the type you’re talking about. Very common type of advice-giving PUA. You should have seen how angry these guys were back in the day when I first started talking about online dating!

    FYI, I had to re-enter the name and email fields…maybe that’s broken again?

    Let me know if it happens again. We’ve been doing work here lately.

  60. Well, I guess I would be the scandinavian madly in love with my own country. Except that isnt true. First of all, I seriously doubt I am part of any manosphere and I am certainly not angry. What is there to be angry about? When were men freer than now?

    Also if I should mention a specific most impressive country, it wouldnt be Denmark but the UK. Whereas most of europe were under various dictatorships until late last week, the UK basically invented the western world with rule of law and basic rights going back to Magna Carta 1,000 years ago, influencing the world to the degree that everyone tries to speak their language. And an unarmed police, thats just peak civilization

    Other countries do better too in some areas. Take switzerland. Not only their amazing levels of localism with Cantons operating as near nation states but they are better than Denmark when it comes to avoiding people wasting time at university. Interestingly – but probably not surprisin, as a consequence of limiting university education, they are possibly the only western country with more men than women at university.

    Finally, despite my heavy criticism of the US, I am not even remotely anti-american.  In fact I have far more faith in it than most ameticans here, including Blackdragon. The US is not collapsing. Its full of people willing to work hard. Its just that so many of them seem to get such a tough deal for no purpose. And you really fail to understand how a welfare state can function, including hard economic benefits. Its cheaper hiring doctors and nurses for all than having thousands of lawyers arguing who deserves treatment. And those gargantuan prison numbers. Isnt that just american style socialism? Millions of people not working at the cost of god knows what to the taxpayers.

  61. The My Game is the only real Game types

    Oh, those assholes, the same assholes who banned me from The Attraction Forums in 2009 for saying that social circle game is necessary for night game (which it is, doing night game alone is not a good idea).

    That being aside, I’d even prefer that to what the manosphere is now, which to me seems like a bunch of incel assholes who pretty much all in some way think like Elliot Rodger when it comes to chicks. Seriously, if you go on Roosh’s boards and Return of Kings, you’ll see exactly what I mean. SJdubs attacking SJdubs.

    How hard is it to just laugh at the shit going on around you, adapt to things, and just do you? Do we worship collectivism that much to where it has now become part of the manosphere?

    *sigh*

  62. The US is not collapsing.

    Please present your economic data showing the US is maintaining its economic position, or is on the rise, and will continue to do so in to the future.

  63. I’m a man man in his early 20s who you’d probably say falls under the “hypersensitive SJW” type and/or the ““I Know Everything Because I Went To College! guys”. I don’t agree necessarily with that categorization, but I like to learn from people by asking them questions with the hypothetical assumption their beliefs are completely true. What specific advice would you give in relation to money and women to counteract my supposedly irrational beliefs?

  64. What specific advice would you give in relation to money and women to counteract my supposedly irrational beliefs?

    Ask yourself two questions:

    1. Is it true? Do the fact and stats and data and/or overwhelming anecdotal experience (not just two or three people 30 or 40 people you know) all clearly and obviously corroborate what you believe? Or do you believe it just because someone said so? Or, more likely because you want it to be so?

    2. Is it relevant? If less guns equal less gun crime, is that really relevant when you have a country like the USA with over 350 million guns in the hands of civilians already? If India has a 1% divorce rate, is that relevant at all if you’re getting married while you live in Europe? Sometimes even your true beliefs aren’t true because they aren’t relevant within the current context.

  65. For about 1-2 years, they can’t think rationally about the subject of living with a woman or marriage.

    I will be divorced soon. Thinking back on your divorce, what is the best way to “get over it” faster, or think rationally about relationships faster? I’m not angry now – at least, I don’t think I am – but I am very skeptical about relationships at this point, inasmuch as my wife had very few “red flags” when I married her, and still things eventually went south. (She had a low notch count, traditional values, etc. — her parents were divorced, that’s the only one.) What I hope to do is transition to being a “positive MGTOW”. But after many years of marriage it is hard to get my head around the idea of spinning plates or OLTRs…

  66. Maybe its a sub catatory of Angry Tradcons but I find all the gay hate in the manosphere kind of funny. Gay guys ultimately help straight guys by reducing women’s options.

  67. I am very skeptical about relationships at this point, inasmuch as my wife had very few “red flags” when I married her, and still things eventually went south.

    Ah, the “quality woman” fallacy!

    The reason you are having trouble is the cognitive dissonance between what you have been programmed to believe and what you actually experienced.  Your head is messing with you because you haven’t got it sorted out.

    My observation (and I don’t know you other than this one post) from the words you use is you have been reading manosphere stuff.  Be careful, most of it is garbage and will fill your head with more useless social programming that will make your life much worse (till you get rid of it).  Some guys (like the rational male types) make a living by feeding your anger phase, and attempt to keep you there.  Believe me, you have a lot of social programming in your head already that you are going to need to work out before you get your head on straight.  Divorce does that to you.  Don’t make it worse by learning bad technique.

    But to really get yourself pointed in the right direction, you need to go through your head and root that social programming out.  BD has a number of articles here on the subject (type “programming” into the search box) so I’d start there, plus I thoroughly endorse BDs book.  It helped me immensely.

     

  68. Maybe its a sub catatory of Angry Tradcons but I find all the gay hate in the manosphere kind of funny. Gay guys ultimately help straight guys by reducing women’s options.

    Seriously!

    I never understood why they feel threatened by gay people.  It’s none of my business what you do, why do they care so much?  I just don’t get it.

    On a off note, this list is insanely fun to start using on people you know and meet.  For example, I’m #8, but I don’t like it, and am working hard to not be that guy.

    Being self aware is no fun sometimes.

  69. I never understood why they feel threatened by gay people.

    Many don’t, they just have an irrational belief that homosexuality is a sign or an example of “degeneration” of society, or that it is “against nature”, etc. It’s a “religious” belief in religious *and* non-religious homophobes alike, there isn’t necessarily any practical worry behind it.

  70. Ah, the “quality woman” fallacy!

    It is a fallacy to think a quality woman isn’t going to divorce you. But I did not think that. It is not a fallacy to think a quality woman is less likely to cheat on you or divorce you than a low-quality woman. If you’re going to have a marriage or an LTR at all, it should be with a quality woman.

    Most of my “programming” is blue-pill beta male stuff. I am not one of these “I used to be alpha until I got married” guys. I was always beta. Still am. Despite the failure of my marriage, blue-pill ideas – along the lines of “how am I going to find another woman to marry me so we can live in monogamous happiness forever” – keep floating up from my subconscious, and I am reading this blog, among others, to help me fight them off.

  71. It is not a fallacy to think a quality woman is less likely to cheat on you or divorce you than a low-quality woman.

    Is this your definition of the term “quality”? If so, what other observable properties do quality women have so they can be distinguished from non-quality ones?

  72. Gay guys ultimately help straight guys by reducing women’s options.

    Correct. One of the reasons the Philippines is the best and easiest place to get laid in the entire world is because of the massive amount of gay men there. Women have far less options. A high prevalence of gay men is fantastic for the heterosexual Alpha Male.

  73. Tradcon slut shaming detected. Initiating red pill countermeasures now:

    I will be divorced soon.

    Well congratulations! 🙂

    So the chains of slavery are loosening huh? Always cool to hear good news.

    what is the best way to “get over it” faster, or think rationally about relationships faster?

    Go fuck 10 other women!

    Then we can have a conversation about “perspective.”

    I am very skeptical about relationships at this point, inasmuch as my wife had very few “red flags” when I married her, and still things eventually went south. (She had a low notch count,

    Ok, her being a prude is red flag #1. You are slut shaming, my good sir. And you picked a wife based on a Disney purity fetish! No wonder it didn’t work out!

    traditional values, etc.

    Oh dear god, why torture your humble servant like this? Say she never liked sex with the lights on and I’ll kill myself!

    Seriously though, stop being such a 1950s tradcon! You allowed your sex-negative societal programming to pick a wife for you based on manosphere Disney garbage, and look where it led you!

    Time to dump the anti-slut attitude and become more sex-positive!

    — her parents were divorced, that’s the only one.)

    No, that’s actually a good sign. Divorce is a sign of sanity. As Groucho Marx said, “Marriage is a wonderful institution. But who wants to live in an institution?”

    Even now, you are filled to the brim with traditionalist purity horseshit! You are suffering from Disney based mind control! Stop it!

    What I hope to do is transition to being a “positive MGTOW”.

    And yet you are still trashing female sexuality and implying that women who like sex are bad. You need to completely change your thinking on this matter!

    But after many years of marriage it is hard to get my head around the idea of spinning plates or OLTRs…

    For all you know, your soon-to-be ex-wife didn’t have a problem with spinning plates even while she was still married. And she’s been married for as long as you, so there’s that! Or did you monitor her 24/7? How did your Disney fairytale end in divorce again?

    It is a fallacy to think a quality woman isn’t going to divorce you.

    Again, you equate “quality woman” with “low sex drive prude.” This is a problem. You’re still steeped in the blue pill world of the 1950s in which “good girls” don’t “do that.”

    It is not a fallacy to think a quality woman is less likely to cheat on you or divorce you than a low-quality woman.

    Yes it is! Again with the slut shaming and the prude worshipping!

    All women will cheat on you eventually if they are presented with the option! The traditionalist “good girls” will make up for lost time, while the sex-positive ones are too smart to limit themselves to only one sex partner for the rest of their lives. That would just be insane!

    Either way, you slut shaming monogamy enthusiasts are fucked!

    Solution: Stop being a slut shaming monogamy enthusiast and embrace sex-positivism.

    I think sleeping with another man’s wife would actually empower you and do you good. Think about it!

    If you’re going to have a marriage or an LTR at all,

    Which would be an insane thing to want….

    it should be with a quality woman.

    Translation: A woman with a low sex drive and a traditional Jesus fetish!

    Yuck! No wonder you’re confused! Your thinking is the exact opposite of what it needs to be in order for you to get out of this. Tip: Shaming women for liking sex is the exact wrong thing to do.

    Most of my “programming” is blue-pill beta male stuff.

    I hadn’t noticed. You think?

    I was always beta. Still am.

    You don’t say!

    Despite the failure of my marriage, blue-pill ideas – along the lines of “how am I going to find another woman to marry me so we can live in monogamous happiness forever” – keep floating up from my subconscious, and I am reading this blog, among others, to help me fight them off.

    Well, you’re not exactly doing a very good job of fighting them off if you still equate “quality” with “traditional values” and a lack of sexual experience. Such a woman isn’t quality. In fact, the exact opposite type of woman is what you need.

    You’ll never get rid of your Disney programming if you keep seeking out women with Disney programming and a hatred for sex. So please snap out of it!

     

  74. JOTB never ceases to entertain.

    Although I’m with him on this. If tradcons let chicks just be horny, there would be way less #MeToo-ing going on.

    But nah. Tradcons gon’ Tradcon.

    I never understood why they feel threatened by gay people.

    They’re afraid they might relate and actually be attracted to fags if the fags actually kicked it with them. Like SJdubs, tradcons despise what they don’t understand. And they despise EVEN MORE what they possibly could be.

    Its just like when SJdub feminists claim that all sex is rape. They do this because they are afraid that THEY might be rapists because they sometimes act on their desires the way the catcallers they despise do. This realization that they may be acting like the people they dislike gets them to frantically defend themselves because they know that they have the propensity to act that way if given the opportunity.

    I saw that at my last job: this chick hit on this frat looking dude, he wasn’t having it, then she accused him of harassment despite pretty much everyone around them saying she just grabbed his ass. She then actually attempted to say that his existence made her do that and it was because guys do that to chicks that made her do it so it was his fault. She started bursting into tears. She wasn’t believing her own bullshit and it scared the shit out of her.

    If I ever cared about improving the world, I’d try to get into grad school and do some research on collectivists and how paranoid they act and how bad their mental health actually is. Then go to each and every one of these rallies and protests these assholes put on, and throw my findings in their faces. But I know what would happen. Which is why I don’t care for going that route.

    In this observation, when I say collectivist I mean people who physically start protests etc. I’d bet that they have serious mental health issues and are probably very, very unhappy.

  75. I hope Dex stays.

    JOTB, on the other hand, buddy I missed you!

    Except he’s Alpha 1.0 (and in denial) which cracks me up,

     

     

  76. he’s Alpha 1.0 (and in denial) which cracks me up

    LMAO his sperging has literally cured me of depressive states. It’s more entertaining than when I trolled manosphere, incel, and hyper progressive boards in that I don’t even need to troll him in order to get him to REEEE. I mean I go off on my fair share of stuff too, but its not that bad and I try to make it funny for everyone including myself.

    Dex has a lot to learn. I too hope he stays.

  77. Except he’s Alpha 1.0 (and in denial) which cracks me up,

    In denial about what? That I’m an alleged “alpha 1.0?”

    Every alpha 1.0 I’ve ever met is a tradcon, a slut shamer, and a territorial douchebag who thinks “his” woman is his property and she “better not fuck anyone else.”

    I’m the exact opposite of this type of territorial, slut shaming caveman! But if you want to call me an alpha 1.0, it’s not worth a fight. Go right ahead. See? I’m outcome independent already, lol!

    LMAO his sperging has literally cured me of depressive states. It’s more entertaining than when I trolled manosphere, incel, and hyper progressive boards in that I don’t even need to troll him in order to get him to REEEE.

    So……you think anything I said to Dex was stupid or untrue? Maybe provide a counter-argument then.

     

  78. So……you think anything I said to Dex was stupid or untrue? 

    Actually, quite the contrary.  Problem is, that truth hurts.  In my experience most people cannot face the pain and will do whatever it takes to deny it.

    He might run away, which is why I encouraged him to stay.

  79. So……you think anything I said to Dex was stupid or untrue?

    Nope, its the fact that pretty much 85% of everything else you’ve said is sperging and REEEEing and I just think its funny. Case in point:

    Every alpha 1.0 I’ve ever met is a tradcon, a slut shamer, and a territorial douchebag who thinks “his” woman is his property and she “better not fuck anyone else.” I’m the exact opposite of this type of territorial, slut shaming caveman!

    Says the dude who gets more psychotic than a 33+ Dominant chick when challenged. If you just calmed down, I’d take you more seriously.

  80. Nope, its the fact that pretty much 85% of everything else you’ve said is sperging and REEEEing

    I don’t even know what those terms mean exactly. I’ve never been diagnosed with Asperger’s or any other mental disorder. Then again, I’m a lawyer by trade, so my thorough writing probably             resembles someone with autism. It’s a curse of the profession. Oh well.

    Says the dude who gets more psychotic than a 33+ Dominant chick when challenged.

    Um…….. hey Joelsuf, no offense there buddy, but you have said recently that you believe that private citizens should be allowed, as individuals, to possess nuclear weapons. On a 1-10 insanity scale, that idea ranks about a trillion!

    That is a level of crazy that my “psychotic 33+ dominant chick persona” cannot even begin to fathom. But hey, there’s no need to measure our dicks any more like this. We all have ideas that would drive the blue pill world mad with rage!

    If you just calmed down, I’d take you more seriously.

    It’s funny, because, just two days ago, my girlfriend said this to me:

    “You are the most passionate boyfriend I’ve ever had and the most passionate man I’ve ever met. Which is probably why I’ve been with you longer than any other guy. And why you’re the only guy I’d feel safe to have a baby with.”

    That, and I’m the most sex-positive serious boyfriend she’s ever had.

    You see it as “psychotic rage.” I see it as passion. On the internet, you can’t tell the difference, but in real life you can.

     

     

     

  81.     Ok, her being a prude is red flag #1. You are slut shaming, my good sir. And you picked a wife based on a Disney purity fetish! No wonder it didn’t work out!

    Nah, I don’t have a problem with sluts. Banged sluts before I met my STBXW, but I wouldn’t have married one. I married her for many other reasons than her “purity”, but I regarded her purity as a plus, not a minus.

        You allowed your sex-negative societal programming to pick a wife for you based on manosphere Disney garbage, and look where it led you!

    My major Disney mal-programming was not sex-negativity, but the “forever soul-mate” thing.

      Even now, you are filled to the brim with traditionalist purity horseshit!’

    Again… I don’t think sluttiness is bad, I’m just not going to marry a slut. The fact that marrying a not-slut didn’t work out, does not mean that marrying a slut is a good idea.

        you are still trashing female sexuality and implying that women who like sex are bad.

    I wanted the unicorn who liked sex, but only with me. So sad to strive for the unattainable!

        For all you know, your soon-to-be ex-wife didn’t have a problem with spinning plates even while she was still married. And she’s been married for as long as you, so there’s that! Or did you monitor her 24/7? How did your Disney fairytale end in divorce again?

    Heading for divorce because (a) I got lazy and she lost attraction to me, (b) she entered mid-life crisis mode (mid-40s) and regretted not slutting it up as a 20-something, and (c) she is mentally ill, which no amount of self-improvement on my part or couples counseling is going to fix.

        you equate “quality woman” with “low sex drive prude.”

    Quality woman = highly sexual but only with you.

        All women will cheat on you eventually if they are presented with the option!

    Agree. But it’ll take longer for her to get there if she’s not a slut.

        The traditionalist “good girls” will make up for lost time,

    Which my STBXW is about to do, and all other factors aside, I had to pull the plug or I was certain to get cucked.

        Stop being a slut shaming monogamy enthusiast and embrace sex-positivism.

    Well… my marriage has certainly diminished my enthusiasm for monogamy. Or at least, made me more cynical / realistic about it. It would be absurd for me to get married again, as I have no intention of fathering more kids, and it would only expose me to financial risk. The difficulty will be getting into an OLTR mindset. There’s still that bluepill craving for a single faithful lifetime partner that I have to get over.

      [If you’re going to have a marriage or an LTR at all,] Which would be an insane thing to want….

    Agree! Rationally, anyway. Emotionally, I gotta reprogram myself.

        Tip: Shaming women for liking sex is the exact wrong thing to do.

    Again, I don’t shame them for liking sex. I just don’t want them having it with other men as well as me, and in particular, when they are married to me (which will soon be a moot point).

        Well, you’re not exactly doing a very good job of fighting them off if you still equate “quality” with “traditional values” and a lack of sexual experience.

    The Struggle Is Real. =)

    At this point in my life, I doubt I’ll be able to start an LTR with a 19 year old virgin. The women I meet will undoubtedly have significant sexual experience. So, it’s sluts or nothing for me, eh?

  82. JOtB just cracks me up. I lold

    Yeah its great stuff. If he ever became a public figure, or even as popular as BD, he’d be a total lolcow and would probably be on encyclopedia dramatica haha

  83. I don’t even know what those terms mean exactly.

    Look them up mane. Urban dictionary my dude.

    but you have said recently that you believe that private citizens should be allowed, as individuals, to possess nuclear weapons. On a 1-10 insanity scale, that idea ranks about a trillion!

    I jokingly said that to mock you. We were on one of BD’s posts about guns and stuff and you were like “if everyone had automatic weapons, we’d be cool” to which I then said what I said above.

    We all have ideas that would drive the blue pill world mad with rage!

    I guess we do.

    You see it as “psychotic rage.” I see it as passion. On the internet, you can’t tell the difference, but in real life you can.

    So if I’m a fatass, is it cool to call myself “overweight?” Which one of us was the anti-PC guy again?

  84. Nah, I don’t have a problem with sluts.

    But you do, as I shall now demonstrate!

    but I wouldn’t have married one.

    Why not? You think sexual free spirits are only good for fucking and aren’t fit for anything serious? That pretty much reduces their humanity, don’t you think?

    You obviously have a problem with them as wives, serious girlfriends, and mothers.

    I married her for many other reasons than her “purity”, but I regarded her purity as a plus, not a minus.

    Uh huh. So being a “slut” would have been a minus? But you have no problem with sexually liberated women and would never reduce their worthiness in the sexual market to just casual sex. Right.

    You’re making my case for me here. Please don’t stop.

    My major Disney mal-programming was not sex-negativity, but the “forever soul-mate” thing.

    Ah, but what you have to understand is that those two things are actually one and the same!

    The whole monogamous, Disney, “you are my sunshine, my only sunshine” horseshit creates the concept of slut shaming as an unavoidable side effect that you can’t get out of with your intellectual honesty intact.

    If you believe in monogamy, who is the better monogamous partner?

    1. The virgin Amish girl whose idea of getting naughty is wearing a dress that shows a little bit of her naked legs; or,

    2. A girl who lost her virginity at the age of 12 in an interracial foursome, seduced her married math teacher at the age of 15, had three abortions by age 21, and who now enjoys frequent group sex with her social circle of pagan friends.

    No doubt, you would say that the Amish virgin would make a better monogamous partner and would be less likely to cheat on you. Which is true. But that only means one thing: Slut shaming is involuntarily and instinctively built into the very foundation of the monogamy racket!

    If you are a believer in monogamy, you MUST be a slut shamer, at least to a certain degree. You have no intellectual choice! Monogamy shuns sexual free spirits, and sexual free spirits shun monogamy.

    Back when I was a monogamous hypocrite (while cheating on all my monogamous girlfriends, of course), I eventually realized that I must be either a slut shamer – which is the unavoidable commonsense conclusion of the belief in monogamy – or I must trash monogamy altogether in order to fully embrace sexually open minded women, both as casual sex partners AND as loving girlfriends and mothers. I chose the latter.

    Again… I don’t think sluttiness is bad, I’m just not going to marry a slut. The fact that marrying a not-slut didn’t work out, does not mean that marrying a slut is a good idea.

    Marrying ANYONE is a bad idea, so I’m with you there. If you’re kinky enough to want a threesome with the government, the government is going to pound you in the ass and it will not ask for consent! And then the government will say it’s because it loves you.

    But see? In the monogamy paradigm, a non-slut is automatically better. Hence, you can be a slut shamer (even a mild one), or you can totally reject monogamy. There is no third option, barring hypocrisy!

    I wanted the unicorn who liked sex, but only with me.

    HAHA! A lesbian towards all men, but a heterosexual towards you.

    It’s kind of like women who want the fictional “submissive alpha.” He’s a badass, but he does what he’s told every time she snaps her fingers. Such a walking contradiction does not exist.

    A man can either be a beta and do what he’s told, and thus be an unattractive pussy, or he can be a very hot and attractive badass, but is certainly not going to take the bitch’s orders.

    It’s a trade off that women must make.

    Likewise, a man can have a woman who will never cheat on him because she hates sex, and therefore, will fuck him only twice a year – once on his birthday and once on V-Day with the lights turned off in the missionary position while being completely silent (unless his birthday IS on Valentine’s Day, in which case, only once a year).

    Or he can have a woman who gets fidgety if she doesn’t get sex at least four times a day, but such a woman desperately needs sexual variety and will definitely be fucking other dudes (with or without his permission) when she gets horny and her boyfriend is at work.

    It’s a tradeoff that men must make.

    she entered mid-life crisis mode (mid-40s) and regretted not slutting it up as a 20-something,

    Yup. The late bloomers get really wild in their 40s as they make up for lost time. It’s a beautiful thing to see. I’m fucking one such woman right now.

    and (c) she is mentally ill,

    Heh, heh, heh.

    Sorry, but I don’t buy the whole “mental illness” myth in any real medical sense. Mental illness is just defined as behavior that you personally don’t like.

    Real doctors use pathologists to prove real diseases. To prove mental illness, psychiatrists use lawyers.

    Quality woman = highly sexual but only with you.

    In other words, quality = non-slut.

    You’ve proven my point that you are indeed a slut shamer in the sense that you don’t think sluts are quality women. Thanks for playing.

    Don’t feel bad. Slut shaming is an unavoidable part of believing in monogamy.

    Solution: Dump monogamy.

    Agree. But it’ll take longer for her to get there if she’s not a slut.

    At the price of being prudish towards you and thinking about rainbows and puppy dogs when you just want a good hard fuck! And then she’ll cheat on you anyway.

    The only way out of this conundrum is to embrace the cheating via open/poly relationships. Then you can have all the fun in the world without guilt, hypocrisy, or infantile territoriality.

    I had to pull the plug

    Well, you could have just opened up the marriage. In fact, BD has an entire book on how to convert a monogamous marriage into an open one. I highly recommend it.

    Well… my marriage has certainly diminished my enthusiasm for monogamy. Or at least, made me more cynical / realistic about it.

    Good.

    It would be absurd for me to get married again, as I have no intention of fathering more kids,

    I have every intention of fathering kids. And it would be absurd for me to ever get married.

    The difficulty will be getting into an OLTR mindset. There’s still that bluepill craving for a single faithful lifetime partner that I have to get over.

    Yes, this is definitely something you must get over. I suggest having a threesome with your next little angel and another man. Watch her face and have her say “I love you” as she is being pounded by him. You’ll see that letting your serious girlfriend bang other dudes is really no big deal, and may even strengthen the relationship by building a level of trust that the monogamous world is incapable of even conceiving!

    Again, I don’t shame them for liking sex. I just don’t want them having it with other men as well as me, and in particular, when they are married to me

    But why not? It’s no big deal. In fact, like I said, in the long run, it will even strengthen your relationship. And hey, you get to fuck other women too!

    At this point in my life, I doubt I’ll be able to start an LTR with a 19 year old virgin.

    Good. Forget about all the virgins and prudes. Traditionalism sucks!

    The women I meet will undoubtedly have significant sexual experience. So, it’s sluts or nothing for me, eh?

    Make sure you start off the relationships the right way though. Present yourself as an open minded dude. If she’s into threesomes or group sex, get in on that shit! That way, by the time she is your serious girlfriend, screwing others will be just a regular routine and par for the course. No big deal.

    Remember that phrase from the movie Dodgeball – “If you can dodge a bullet, you can dodge a ball.”

    BD has a similar concept. Before you upgrade the woman to OLTR status, you must first pass through the fire of the MLTR. As an MLTR, she is allowed to not just fuck, but also, actually date and be in love with other dudes. Then she must naturally shun them and choose you due to her superior attraction for you. That’s your cue to upgrade her to OLTR status, in which she’s only allowed to use other men for casual sex and no longer date them.

    So the OLTR is a piece of cake, compared to the MLTR. That’s why the MLTR comes first. If you can dodge a bullet, you can dodge a ball!

    Good luck to you, sir. Now get out there and use that penis!

     

     

     

     

  85. I’m guilty of being a pedantic know-it-all and you were spot on about not making more than 30K. What an eye opener.

  86. You think sexual free spirits are only good for fucking and aren’t fit for anything serious? That pretty much reduces their humanity, don’t you think?

    You obviously have a problem with them as wives, serious girlfriends, and mothers.

    Yes, I do have a problem with sluts as wives and mothers. I wouldn’t marry or reproduce with one. I don’t agree that “reduces their humanity” though. They are as human as anyone else. They are making their own choices. And I am making mine – namely, I won’t marry one of them. I am sure we could identify some other behaviors that even you would not accept in a girlfriend, wife, or mother; but they would not be “less human” for all that you reject them.

    So being a “slut” would have been a minus? But you have no problem with sexually liberated women and would never reduce their worthiness in the sexual market to just casual sex. Right.

    Yes. A slut is a definite minus in a wife. They are only valuable for casual sex. I don’t even know why this is even controversial.

    The best monogamous partner is monogamous. Duh! That means she has sex with you, not with lots of other men.

    If you are a believer in monogamy, you MUST be a slut shamer, at least to a certain degree. You have no intellectual choice!

    No. You are free to select a non-slut as your partner, while being indifferent to what other women choose to do.

     a man can have a woman who will never cheat on him because she hates sex,

    No, that’s not the idea (or the ideal). She does not cheat on him because she has moral standards, and self-control. She likes sex, but with him. In practice this actually happens, at least for a certain period of time. In the beginning of the relationship with you, she won’t be interested in another man. Alas, that period always comes to an end.

    I don’t buy the whole “mental illness” myth in any real medical sense. Mental illness is just defined as behavior that you personally don’t like.

    How would you describe someone who believes she is in daily mental contact with a supernatural being, hears the being speaking to her (but nobody else can hear it), and also believes she is in telepathic contact with a celebrity who is in love with her and sending secret messages to her when he appears in public? To be sure, I do not like those behaviors, but they’re also totally nuts, in an objective scientific sense.

    You’ve proven my point that you are indeed a slut shamer in the sense that you don’t think sluts are quality women.

    They don’t have the “quality” I seek in a wife or mother. I do not care what they do – they can go fuck as many men as they want, that’s nothing to me – but I’m not going to wife them up. If you form a legal and financial entanglement with a slut, that’s your choice, and in my opinion an unwise one, but I’m certainly not going to “shame” her (i.e., criticize her to her face).

    But yes I have given up on monogamy.

    At the price of being prudish towards you and thinking about rainbows and puppy dogs when you just want a good hard fuck!

    Could just be a function of their age at the time, but the girlfriends I had back in the day had a low notch count, but they weren’t prudish towards me.

    you could have just opened up the marriage.

    No advantage to me in that. I continue providing resources, while she goes out and fucks other men? Forget it. She’s not going to live in my house and eat my food while she does that.

    I have every intention of fathering kids. And it would be absurd for me to ever get married.

    Let me know how that goes. I’m interested in that model for my own son.

    Now get out there and use that penis!

    Sadly, it’s a little rusty at the moment…

  87. All this anger (and majority of other types of anger) falls into category of following one simple rule:

    You will not get return on investment from emotional attention that is put everywhere except areas that are in your personal control and borderline areas of your personal control.

  88. I continue providing resources, while she goes out and fucks other men? Forget it. She’s not going to live in my house and eat my food while she does that.

    Why would you provide resources to an adult person?

    Why would you care who an adult person fucks?

  89. Why would you provide resources to an adult person?

    Get real. Most men are going to be married to a woman who makes less than him. And most men are not going to hold their wives feet in the fire and require them to pay exactly 50% of the household and child care expenses. If you get married, as a man, you are going to furnish more than 50% of the resources in the relationship.

    Why would you care who an adult person fucks?

    I don’t if she’s not married to me.

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