first date advice, first online date, online dating advice, meaning of an open relationship, alpha male traits

This is the next installment of the book I never published regarding my history with women and the lessons I learned from it. If you haven’t yet, you should read parts one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, and ten before you read the article below, so you can be up to speed on where the story picks up. Everything below is all 100% true to the best of my memory, journals, and spreadsheet records, though all the names of the people described have been changed.

We last left off in the summer of 2008, having just recently slept with my first much younger woman, a crazy 18-year-old redhead named Selina, officially beginning my “crazy phase” with women that lasted about two years…

September-October, 2008

Selina was a maniac. She was an extreme extrovert with tons of friends, loved attention, and loved the attention she received from sex. We immediately started seeing each other several times a week, of course having sex every time we met, sometimes several times per meet.

As fun as this was, I had learned from past mistakes to not get oneitis, not shut off the dating machine, and ensure I had more women in my sex life than just her. So, in-between the times I saw her, I kept cranking it on the online dating sites and kept scheduling first and second dates.

During this time, I saw several other women, including,

  • The gorgeous but high maintenance 25 year-old who was furious at me when she incorrectly assumed I only wanted to pay for half of the first date (her half was six dollars). “A guy expecting me to pay half is a dealbreaker for me.” Yeah. And a gold-digger is a dealbreaker for me. Good riddance. (I describe this encounter in detail in this book.)
  • The muscular, blonde 29 year-old who was very cute in the face but (seemingly) had bigger muscles than me at the time. Yikes! I kissed the crap out of her but that was all I wanted. Didn’t want my cock accidentally snapped off during sex or something. (I mentioned her rock-hard ass in this article here.)
  • The cute half-white half-Japanese 25 year-old who had just found Jesus and therefore did not want to have sex until she “dated a guy for a while.” Sorry Darling, not my system. Good luck with the next shmuck who falls for that.
  • The 35 year-old and very fit blonde who really knew how to kiss.
  • The short 22 year-old who said “just come over to my place” for our first date. Wow! Never had that happen before. I was excited! I arrived and we talked on her couch in front of her TV, and spent most of the evening pushing her two gigantic dogs away from me, keeping them from shoving their noses into my crotch. I didn’t get anything that night…except a shitload of dog hair on my clothes. (We had sex on the second meet though.)
  • A big-boobed Asian (rare but wonderful when you can find them) who gave me a BJ on the first date, but with whom I completely blew the second date by following some very stupid PUA advice about how to do a “hotel close.” She was DTF and wanted me to have sex with her in my car, but I was stupid and instead assumed she wanted a hotel room, then gave me a bunch of resistance when I rented a disgusting room at a roach motel. I talked about this in more detail here.

…and many others. Looking through my spreadsheets from that year, there were so many dates that many of the names I don’t recognize nor can place to a face today. (I remember all the women I actually had sex with though, of course.)

I started throwing much younger women into the mix but still dated women my age and older. I hadn’t yet figured out the over-33 thing, but I started to skew more towards women in their mid to late twenties.

In the middle of all of this, one day I received a text from Marci, the first woman I had sex with after my divorce, and who I talked about in part four of this series here. After some pleasantries, I invited her over. She came over and we had sex twice. I started seeing her sporadically, “on the side” while I still considered Selina as my main girl. (I didn’t yet have the FB / MLTR nomenclature down at that point, so I simply called Selina my “Primary,” though she was essentially an MLTR.)

Marci marked the first time a woman LSNFTE’d me and then returned. It would be the first of many women in my life to do so, but I didn’t know that yet. Instead, I was elated and surprised at A) that a woman would return like this and B) that a woman would return this easily. I didn’t have to take her out on any dates, I didn’t have to spend any money on her, I didn’t have to spend any time with her, and I didn’t even have to “game” her. She just came over to my house and had sex with me. It was exactly what I was looking for.

Lesson Number Twenty

You don’t need to re-game women when they come back to you. You don’t need to start all over from the beginning with a date or “getting drinks” or whatever. Just invite her right over to your house and have sex. That’s why she’s contacting you!

Because of this and my ongoing relationship with Selina (who I did not yet have any relationship discussions with), I started taking careful notes about how to design and manage multiple nonmonogamous relationships with women. Here I was, in my first real MLTR, dating one woman while still having sex with other women, without having to promise monogamy to anyone. And it was working! It was clumsy, but it was working. I was on to something!

At one point, about two or three months into the relationship, Selina looked through my phone (or my email; I don’t remember which). That day, she came to me and angrily asked who “Marci” was.

I didn’t lie. I know that if I wanted this nonmonogamy thing to work, lying wasn’t an option. I simply told her the truth, that she was someone I had briefly dated a year ago, that her and I occasionally hooked up, and that this shouldn’t be a surprise since I never verbally promised monogamy / exclusivity, nor ever did anything to even hint that’s what I was doing. I also added, again truthfully, that it wasn’t serious, and that, since Marci was my age (mid thirties), Selina, as a hot 18-year-old, shouldn’t feel threatened, and that I considered Selina as the “more serious” relationship.

Selina got upset of course, but not nearly as upset as I thought she would. Since being a VYW, her ASD was very low. Also, and I didn’t find this out until many months later, at this time she was having sex with at least two other men despite the fact she “swore” she was only having sex with me. This was yet another one of her lies, but I didn’t care. All I cared about was her not giving me any drama and her continuing to see me even though she knew I was sleeping with other women.

She did. Mission accomplished. It was my first official nonmonogamous relationship that actually lasted a decent amount of time: five full months before her first LSNFTE. Prior to that, my only real nonmono relationships were with Marci and Jenae, both of which only lasted several weeks.

Lesson Twenty-One

Despite the temporary discomfort it may cause because of a woman’s false Societal Programming, honesty works. Honesty is the only way to maintain a long-term, low-drama relationship, particularly a nonmonogamous one. If you regularly lie to a woman in a relationship, it fails to be either long-term or low-drama. Just tell her the truth, and, along with a proper EFA, you’ll be shocked at what women agree to.

Dating someone for five full months while she knew I was having sex with other women was a huge accomplishment and a critical stepping stone to the long-term nonmonogamous relationships I really wanted. I know that if I could do five months with what few relationship management skills I had at the time, I could improve and stretch that five months out into many years. Which I did, eventually.

Once comfortable with the relationship we had, then shit went really crazy. Selina started introducing me to many of the other cute women she knew, and she knew many, including her girlfriends (ahem), her sister (ahem), and even her… mom (ahem).

You’ll have to keep watching this blog for the next installment for those stories, and others. Like I said, this is when the really crazy stuff began. The next article in this series will be my longest, most detailed, and craziest yet.

Coming soon.

32 Comments on “The Story of My History with Women – Part 11 – My First MLTR

  1. @Blackdrag

    on I think you meant you eleventh installment not your tenth installment ?

  2. Her sister and her… mother???!! (jaw-drop)

    We need the next part to be published yesterday!!!

  3. Selina started introducing me to many of the other cute women she knew, and she knew many, including her girlfriends (ahem), her sister (ahem), and even her… mom (ahem).

    LMAO wow the next part is gonna be awesome. Not just reading about BD’s experience, but for the impending haters who are gonna come around and say that BD is making it up (and the responses).

  4. Hi BD,

    first of all, thanks very much for your blog. Using your advice, I can tell I’ve maintained 2 MLTRs for one year now, without lying and being both girls completely aware that I’m not dating them exclusively (after the talk).

    In this last entry, you mention that you gave detailed information to your MLTR about the other girl you were dating. In my case, each MLTR knows I have another MLTR going on (which is the truth) and frankly sometimes I’ve wondered if it wouldn’t have been better to just tell them I was dating other girls while refusing to give additional details. One of the reasons for this is that knowing these details has made the girls jealous and in particular one of them has given me drama because of this (yes I’ve also used soft nexts with her :).

    I was wondering if, after gaining additional experience with non-monogamous relationships, you continued giving precise details about the other girls in your life when a particular girl asked. What do you currently recommend in this regard?

    Thanks again!

  5. In this last entry, you mention that you gave detailed information to your MLTR about the other girl you were dating.

    Which was a mistake on my part. It is usually not a good idea to tell MLTRs details about other women. (For OLTRs and FBs that’s okay.) Remember, this was 10 years ago when I wasn’t very good at this.

    frankly sometimes I’ve wondered if it wouldn’t have been better to just tell them I was dating other girls while refusing to give additional details

    Correct. That’s exactly what you should do (with MLTRs).

  6. Did Marci know about you fucking an 18 year-old? What did you tell Marci about that, if anything? If she didn’t know do you think she would have cared?

    How did you react to Selina snooping around your phone and email? Do you consider that soft next worthy?

  7. Did Marci know about you fucking an 18 year-old? What did you tell Marci about that, if anything?

    I don’t remember. (Again, this was 10 years ago.) She definitely knew I was sleeping around with other women but I don’t know if she knew they were that young at that time. (Later she knew.)

    If she didn’t know do you think she would have cared?

    In her case, no. Years later, she was happy to let her daughter try to set me up with one of her (her daughter’s) friends who was about 19 or 20. (It never happened though.) Marci, like Pink Firefly, was one of those more rare low-ASD over-33 women.

    How did you react to Selina snooping around your phone and email?

    I remember being very irritated and surprised, but not upset.

    Do you consider that soft next worthy?

    No. A woman looking at your phone or email without your permission isn’t very nice, but it’s not drama. However, a woman who looks at this stuff and then turns around and bitches at you about what she finds is drama and absolutely worthy of a soft next.

  8. BD

    I have read your post on 3 types of women and myth of the submissive alpha male.

    have you ever got past the lock-in stage with a woman who seemed dominant in public but wanted to be submissive in the bedroom?

    in your classification system does this type of woman exist?

    thanks for the great article

  9. have you ever got past the lock-in stage with a woman who seemed dominant in public but wanted to be submissive in the bedroom?

    Yes.

    in your classification system does this type of woman exist?

    Yes. They are Dominants.

    I’ve said before that during sex the classification system sometimes no longer applies. There are many pure Alpha Males who are 100% Alpha… until they have sex, then they want to be dominated. Just as there are some Dominant women who are 100% Dominant at all times… until they have sex, they they want to be dominated. But, as soon both people cum and the sex is over, they’re right back to being Dominant.

  10. A little off topic,bd but kindly advise me.
    I’m an intp 23yr old guy who is in good shape, looks reasonably good,works an odd job and lives at home with parents not because I couldn’t afford to live alone but because I’m still in a very early stage of my career building (I will become an architect).
    My problem is,although I do get attention from lower tier girls here and there and can get decent girls if I put in work.but i feel like putting the necessary work into game might put me off track on my mission, plus I don’t find really feel motivated(I’m almost mgtow) to game until I’m horny,I do Hookers at times but it’s really a pain on my ego and I really shouldn’t be blowing my hard earned money on hookers.do you think it might be wise for me to get a monogamous girlfriend for now?

  11. Blackdragon, I just read all the posts, from one to eleven, in a single sitting. Some of it is hysterically funny. I always assumed that you were a natural. Great to see you’ve made the same mistakes as all of us. I can afford to smile right now, I just sent home a woman I had sex with on the second date, consciously trying to follow your system. She seems to have good potential to become my second regular FB. I find I’ve learned a lot of your rules myself from experience, I’ve just never explicitly thought about them, but I still pick up valuable stuff.

    Ah, defacto monogamy is a bitch. I sighed when I got to that post. Worth making a conscious effort to avoid, even if it goes against your natural tendencies in the throes of an NRE with a 10.

    Thanks for sharing these hilarious and informative, useful stories!

    PS @Jub-Real, I can tell you’re not gonna like any responses you get. Fundamentally, I’m also a lazy bastard, so I can see where you’re coming from. But it’s like going to the gym. If you only do it when you feel like and really don’t have anything else that you could be doing with your time, you aren’t gonna go very often. And then you’ll be in crappy shape, which will mean you’re even less likely to feel like it next time.

  12. Jub-real, you say you want to preserve your ego and focus on your work, but one of problems with monogamy is that you won’t really be able to relax from relationship management. You’ll be stressed trying to retain that one person.

    Instead, do what it takes you to get a girlfriend, then just do the same again : ) You’ll feel confident that nothing disastrous will happen should one of them dump you and you’ll feel confident that there’s a system that can easily get you more girls should you need them.

  13. No. A woman looking at your phone or email without your permission isn’t very nice, but it’s not drama. However, a woman who looks at this stuff and then turns around and bitches at you about what she findsisdrama and absolutely worthy of a soft next.

    This may sound like I’m an alpha 1, but I’d actually consider that a hard next. No one has the right to go into that kind of stuff except me. Even my folks know this. Asking my permission is cool. I’ll open up the phone/email/social networking page and let them check it out. But without my permission? Its over.

  14. There are many pure Alpha Males who are 100% Alpha… until they have sex, then they want to be dominated.

    HAHAHAHA! Okay, first I still have work to do before I can call myself an alpha, and second I’ve been neutral-to-dominant during sex so far, but I do get fantasies of being dominated by a tasty lass that mysteriously vanish whenever I’m done jerking off. Weird. I’m gonna have to start making “special requests” to the next girl I bang and see how it feels, lmao.

  15. I always assumed that you were a natural. Great to see you’ve made the same mistakes as all of us.

    BOOM. THAT IS PRECISELY WHY I’M PUBLISHING THESE ARTICLES. TO SHOW YOU THAT I’M A NORMAL GUY WHEN IT COMES TO THIS STUFF JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE. I AM NOT A NATURAL, NOT EVEN CLOSE, AND NEVER HAVE BEEN. ANYONE READING THESE WORDS WHO IS NOT 400 POUNDS OR PHYSICALLY DEFORMED CAN DO THE EXACT SAME THING I HAVE DONE.

    I’ve been neutral-to-dominant during sex so far, but I do get fantasies of being dominated by a tasty lass that mysteriously vanish whenever I’m done jerking off.

    Yup. That’s how it works.

  16. If a long time MLTR is really wanting to be primary partners, is there ever an occasion where you will tell her you don’t want that with her? Or divulge information about your other MLTRs if she’s really pushing for answers to the seriousness (or lack therof) of your relationship?

  17. Hey BD!
    I’ve bought a couple of books from you, such as the online dating one. I believe I understand the concepts you talk about, but there is a reoccurring problem I can’t seem to figure out.

    Eventually, girls I sleep with end up soft nexting me, and that’s fine. It’s when they inevitably text me back (with something innocent) weeks to months down the line, I try to push for a meet up at either her or my place. However, once this is proposed, they immediately friend zone me (sometimes all unprompted before the invite). Before this, I followed the rules you talk about to a tee in regards to keeping women at the periphery. During the soft next, I do not contact them at all and am happy and easy going when they text me. Am I taking their words too seriously, and should just try to meet up and escalate?

    My originaly question is, has this ever happened to you, and why does this happen/ how can I prevent this?

  18. If a long time MLTR is really wanting to be primary partners, is there ever an occasion where you will tell her you don’t want that with her?

    Yes. At The Talk, 3-5 months into the relationship. Read this book for exactly how and when to do that.

    Or divulge information about your other MLTRs if she’s really pushing for answers to the seriousness (or lack therof) of your relationship?

    No. That will just cause drama. Talking about other women is okay for FBs and/or your OLTR, not MLTRs.

    However, once this is proposed, they immediately friend zone me (sometimes all unprompted before the invite).

    A woman can’t friend zone you if you don’t let her. If she tries doing this, stop responding to her texts.

    My originaly question is, has this ever happened to you

    Yes, but rarely.

    and why does this happen/ how can I prevent this?

    Follow the usual system. Don’t initiate any contact for 4-6 months at least, then hit her up after that if you haven’t heard from her.

    If you do hear from her, and pitch a meet at that time, and she says no but she still wants to text you all the time, tell her nicely that you don’t do friend zone and that you’re really not interested in that. Then stop responding to her contact (for a few weeks/months), unless such contact is that she wants to hang out with you.

    I also suspect you’re doing something wrong during the relationship if this keeps happening over and over again with numerous women. I would suggest that book that I linked above to you as well.

  19. That’s interesting. Actually, I would tell these girls that I don’t do the friend zone and then proceed to stop contacting them.
    Hmm, I do actually have that book and I remember reading the cardinal rules and followed those 100%. Truthfully, I could always sense the girls wanted something more, however, I’d ignore it unless they verbalized it (if at all). I wonder if my player vibe is too high and its freaking them out after a while (personally I don’t think of myself as a player, but its their perception that matters not mine, I guess).

    Thanks for the reply, BD! Kind of you to take the time. From what I could gather indirectly through your articles, you’ve been at this for quite some time, so your process must be air tight and natural for you. I think more grinding and experience is necessary for me, so I can achieve a somewhat similar level of success. Thanks again.

  20. ML, I had something like that happen a few months ago. On reflection, I did practically everything wrong in terms of relationship management – apart from making sure she had a lot of satisfactory orgasms. She was in long distance relationship with some guy, we met, had sex on the second date … and then we met practically every day for three weeks. Most of the time we had sex, but we also did films, went swimming, all sorts of stuff like that.

    And then the other guy was scheduled to turn up, and she rather abruptly said, no more sex … but you’re great fun, hope we can still be friends.

    I think she wanted a buddy for all the other things we did together.

    I hadn’t come across BD’s blog yet, but I didn’t think it would be dignified hanging out with her trying to get her to change her mind, so I cut off contact.

    Haha. Actually, that was how I discovered BD! I was kinda pining for her and googled the word “oneitis” and came across this site! I was happy to see that I’d instinctually done the right thing. In another month, we’ll hit the 4 month mark. Maybe I’ll check her socmed to check if the LDR guy is still around or arriving any time soon. But after a few months, I’ve sort of moved on. Still ….

    So, my lesson learned from that is I think women will want you in the friend zone if you acted kinda like a good candidate for that position when you were having sex with her.

  21. It’s the 5th already, I wonder where’s Jack Outside: The Blog?

    Abducted by aliens, I suppose.

  22. It’s the 5th already, I wonder where’s Jack Outside: The Blog?

    What did I say? I said I’m going to push hard for the 4th of July to be the date of my blog’s release for obvious symbolic reasons. I also said that, in all likelihood, it will be between July 4th and August 1st.

    I have a meeting with a computer expert tomorrow (he’s fucking my girlfriend, so I trust him). We will be talking about hooking me up with a VPN, other internet privacy issues, blog costs, as well as the technical side of things when it comes to blog management.

    It’s taking this long because I need to have all my ducks in a row, not just in terms of money and technical knowledge, but also in terms of privacy and the prevention of doxxing. Remember, my blog will be super controversial, so privacy is important and I can’t make any mistakes.

    I promise, I’ll link it here when it’s ready. Lots of people are waiting (and I appreciate it), but it must be done right, or it can’t be done at all. This isn’t going to be some cooking blog that will make no one angry. This is going to be some deep shit that will make people furious.

    Topics will include: The Ten Principles of the Alt Lite, individualism, the true nature of the elite, the two dimensional dialectic, sexual repression as a tool of control, political correctness, and elitist institutional pedophilia, among other things.

    So I must protect myself first! Just be patient!

    Thank you for your interest.

    Abducted by aliens, I suppose.

    I don’t believe in aliens. Try again!

     

     

  23. @Anon, and anyone else who cares:

    The meeting with the computer guy went well. In fact, it eventually turned into a threesome (we double teamed by girl).

    He gave me a simple, step by step, strategy on how to start the blog, while maintaining maximum privacy.

    I must:

    – open a completely separate bank account exclusively for blog related purposes

    – purchase a very specific VPN which he recommended with said bank account

    – create the wordpress blog, which he will do with me and make sure everything is kosher

    So hang tight, gentlemen! This is happening. Just a few more weeks, that’s all.

    Thank you all for your patience.

     

     

  24. Jack – Stop advertising your nonexistent blog on my websites. Last warning. Thanks.

  25. Jack – Stop advertising your nonexistent blog on my websites. Last warning. Thanks.

    I was simply responding to questions asked by your other commenters. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have mentioned it.

    Sorry if I overstepped by bounds.

  26. Regarding that muscular blonde lady, I would totally pit my jackhammer against her bottom boulders. The world needs more muscle women:)

  27. Don’t initiate any contact for 4-6 months at least, then hit her up after that if you haven’t heard from her.

    When you hit her up after 4-6 months, do you do rapport-building through texts (“How’s everything”, “What’s new”, etc) or do you just go straight into proposing a meet at your place with your first or second text?

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