I’ve talked a great deal about how to avoid drama from women in relationships. Most of my relationship management techniques are, in fact, various ways of avoiding drama from women that most men in normal monogamous relationships and marriages put up with their entire lives.

However, we can’t neglect the other side of the equation, which is you.

But before I start kicking your ass, let’s back up for a minute. Per my glossary, drama has a very specific definition when I use the term, which is:

Drama – Any harsh negative actions directed from a woman to man where the man is the target of said negativity. Screaming, nagging, complaining, arguing, demands, crying “at you,” threats, ultimatums, the “silent treatment,” refusing sex because of non-medical reasons, all of these things are drama, and there are many others. Drama is not “anything negative.” Specifically, it must be harsh (sweetly lying would not be considered drama) and focused at the man (angrily complaining about her boss at work would not be considered drama). Drama is a female trait. (Men have guy-drama.)

That’s right. Drama is a female trait, one I’ve talked about a lot on this blog and in my books. However, there is a different type of drama, one created by men. This is called guy drama. It’s definition is this:

Guy-Drama – A particular form of drama directed from a man to a woman. Unlike drama, which is feminine and takes many forms, guy-drama usually takes the form of a lecture issued in order to correct behavior.  “Setting her straight,” “straightening her out,” “laying down the law,” commands to “respect” him, or issuing “rules” are all forms of guy-drama. Guy-drama is extremely ineffective at managing a relationship. It simply creates more drama, or at best, simply delays (instead of preventing) future drama.

What men often forget is that guy drama is still drama. Guy drama is your fault. Often normal (feminine) drama is a direct result of guy drama which you instigated, which again, is your fault.

I’m about to tell you how to avoid guy drama in your life, but as always, I need to state for the record that if you’re a Hispanic or committed Alpha Male 1.0 and therefore like or don’t mind drama, or if you are a super pussy beta male and think putting up with drama is “worth it” in order to maintain your oneitis relationship, you are going to disagree with just about everything I’m about to say. If that’s you, feel free to ignore all of my advice and proceed to lecture your wife/GF about everything and experience all the usual conflict that arises. The Alpha Male 2.0 follows a different path.

Guy drama is a direct result of outcome dependence. Outcome independence is a core Alpha 2.0 trait. Not giving a shit not only makes you more attractive to women (and on some levels, men as well), but it also allows you to live a much happier life. The less you give a shit, particularly about the details of life (someone being six minutes late to an appointment) and about the things you can’t control (like political solutions trying to save the already doomed Western civilization), the more happy you will be, and the more consistent your feelings of happiness and peace you will experience.

In terms of your romantic and/or sexual relationships with women, the more you are outcome dependent, the more you give a shit about what she does or does not do, the more likely you are to instigate guy drama. When she does something you don’t approve of, even if it’s minor (and most things women do you don’t approve of will be minor) you’re going to stop whatever you’re doing and correct her in some way.

This correction is done in either a mild way or an intense way.

Mild Guy Drama

Mild guy drama is usually issued in the form of a question that is essentially, “Why the hell are you doing that? Don’t do that! You should do this instead!” All men, myself included, are guilty of doing this from time to time, and the more serious the relationship, the more often you will be compelled to do it.

Men are fixers. Men take pleasure fixing something we see as wrong. Women, god bless them, are all kinds of wrong. So as the man in her life, you’re going to happily and heroically butt your big fat nose into her business and try to “fix” her whenever you see her do something wrong or inappropriate. Which, of course, will be all the fucking time.

You’ll do this so often and so mildly that you may not even be aware of it. As a perfect example, a few weeks ago I was helping Pink Firefly with a problem she was having on her computer (computers are hyper-masculine systems, therefore men love computers and love to work on them and to fix problems with them). Looking over her shoulder, I directed her to minimize some windows. Then I saw her Windows desktop. Like most people, the entire screen was full of icons.

I’m an anal INTJ and time management expert, what do you think my brain said when it saw all this organizational chaos?

I laughed out loud and said to her, “Why the hell do you have all these icons all over your desktop? How do you even find anything? You need to…” Then, boom. I stopped myself. I was about to give her some computer productivity advice and all kinds of other guy-logic. Yet, as the words fell out of my mouth, I realized I was throwing her some mild guy drama. This was during a time a few weeks ago where I was trying my best to be aware of doing this and bringing it to a minimum, adjusting for her recent move-in.

She made an irritated sound, and I immediately stopped myself, and in a kind, loving voice, I said, “Actually, never mind. Don’t worry about it.” I instantly put it out of my mind, forever, and proceeded to fix the problem she needed help with.

Who gives a shit how a woman arranges her icons on her fucking computer? Not an Alpha 2.0. Is this important to me? No. Is this worth me taking the time to correct her? No. Is this worth creating drama between us? No.

A huge percentage of a woman’s day-to-day actions, when you date her in any context, will fall into this category.

  • Does it really matter if she was six minutes late to your date/meet?
  • Does it really matter if she has Facebook drama with one of her girlfriends?
  • Does it really matter if she ordered a nacho when you ordered a salad?
  • If you’re a father with an ex-wife, does it really matter she didn’t put the coat on your kid that you would have used?

These things don’t matter. Not if you want to be happy.

Intense Guy Drama

Intense guy drama is the typical guy drama I usually talk about, including in the definition. This is when she does something that pisses you off, your ego gets bruised, you feel disrespected, then your inner Alpha Male 1.0 takes over. You puff out your chest like a barnyard rooster and start lecturing her like a stern college professor about how her behavior is completely unacceptable and that she needs to shape up and start acting like a lady, or nicer, or more submissive, or whatever.

Unless you have an unusually submissive woman on your hands, she, of course, screams back at you with modern-day Strong Independent Woman™ rhetoric about how you Can’t Tell Her What To Do™. Then you respond with more guy drama, she responds with more feminine drama, and now you’re swimming in drama. Good job. Hope you like it.

Alpha Male 1.0’s, and men with these kinds of tendencies, live in a fantasy world where if a man commands a modern-day Western woman to do or not do something in a strong way, she will immediately bow to him while saying “yes, master” and follow his orders like a good little soldier.

The reality is that even Submissives are going to get all kinds of upset at this kind of behavior. And again, the more serious the relationship, the more likely this is to be true. The amount of women in the modern-day Western world who will actually submit to your guy drama like a compliant slave is around 5% (and many of these women have deep-seated emotional problems that will likely come around to bite you in the ass later).

All the rest are going to fight back to some degree, and then you have drama on your hands.

Even worse, some more submissive women will acquiesce to you in the moment, but will start building internal resentment. One day, they’ll dump/divorce you right out of the blue, or they’ll cheat on you and have sex with a man like me. I’ve had sex with many submissive women cheating on their domineering, controlling Alpha Male 1.0 boyfriends. Many.

When Should You Care?

If I’m telling you to stop giving a shit so you can stop giving women guy drama, the question arises as to when you should care. When should you actually tell a woman to stop or start doing something?

In terms of telling her to start doing something, never do this. The Alpha Male 2.0 never tells anyone what to do, but he can state preferences. This is a core difference between the 1.0 and the 2.0.

For example, the Alpha 1.0 would say, “Next time we meet up, you need to wear a skirt and a sexy tank top. Send me a pic before you leave your house so I can make sure it’s something I like.”

The Alpha 2.0 would instead say, “I really like girls who wear skirts and sexy tank tops. That fuckin’ turns me on. But hey, you dress however you want.” She should already know by that point that you’re having sex with other women, and the EFA should be clear that if your other girls dress sexy and she does not, she might miss out, because you’ll be spending your limited time with them instead of her. The Alpha 1.0 is usually monogamous, so he can’t do any of this. He just has to order a woman around and hope that she’ll comply forever (which, of course, she will not).

Is it possible she won’t do what you want? Sure. If that’s the case, you know what to do; spend more time with your other women who dress the way that turns you on. Very simple. No orders needed, and no drama as a result.

In terms of telling her to stop doing something you don’t like, it depends on the severity. If what she’s doing is drama (which is not the result of your guy drama), then you should soft next her ass. No guy drama needed. Just vanish and follow the usual procedure.

If she’s doing something you don’t like that is minor, and not drama, the only issue is if it’s a one time thing or a pattern of behavior.

If it’s a one time thing, completely ignore it. I do.

If it’s a pattern of behavior, you either ignore it and accept it (particularly if she’s a FB or low-end MLTR) or you can tell her something like this: “Hey, you can do whatever you want, but I have to be choosy about who I spend my time with because I’m a busy guy. If you keep doing X, that’s fine with me, but I won’t be spending as much time with you.”

About 85% of the time with FB’s and MLTR’s, I just accept it, and downgrade her if needed. Only rarely do I tell a woman the above. I’m outcome independent, and there are thousands of women in my city. I can always go get another one.

In an OLTR, you can gently tell her that you don’t like X or Y, and hopefully you have already built a relationship where relationship harmony is important to her, and that she’ll be flexible. If she’s not, you probably screwed up and should have never made her your OLTR in the first place.

Guy drama is a big topic and I have a lot more to say about it, but this article is long enough. I will continue this topic in future articles.

If you find the content on this blog helpful, you should join the Alpha 2.0 Community where there’s even more. We have over 500 members who help each other with their financial and woman lives and building an Alpha Male 2.0 lifestyle. I also have community-only podcasts there that aren’t available anywhere else. It’s free to join. Just click here.

95 Comments on “How To Not Create Guy Drama

  1. I have met a few women, and I am sure that you have too, who literally fantasize about, and get all wet hoping that, the man in their life will treat them this way. Telling them what they can/can’t wear, providing rules they are supposed to follow and punishments when they don’t. I guess it’s all wrapped up in various categories of bdsm kinks, but the thing is that they want it more than just in the bedroom, they want it as a lifestyle, and they seem to get genuinely upset if you _don’t_ order them around and give them rules.

    Do you treat women like this a bit more like an Alpha 1, since that seems to be what they genuinely prefer?

  2. @Blackdragon

    “Hey, you can do whatever you want, but I have to be choosy about who I spend my time with because I’m a busy guy. If you keep doing X, that’s fine with me, but I won’t be spending as much time with you.”

    It’s a good advice, but what do you do in your situation, where you live with PF and you really don’t like something. You can’t really spend less time with her – you live together. Even if things have been great until now, they can change.

    Also, as a young guy, I have a question about frame. I have noticed that even though most of the time I have a good, strong, confident frame with women, sometimes in relationship I slip up and then kick myself for it (I still learn off it). The problem for me is my ego, it causes a lot of guy-drama. Sometimes I struggle with differentiating outcome independence (not giving a fuck) with submissive beta-behaviour (let her do whatever she wants, even if I really don’t like it). You call both Alpha 2.0. How so? Doesn’t it bother you?

  3. Coming from a Hispanic upbringing, this is something that has always bit me in the ass when dealing with American women. The culture tells you to never take any disrespect from a woman. Any time some sort of disrespect happens, you imagine your grandpa, your uncle, your father watching over you with a disappointed look expecting you to confront it. Most of the times you overcompensate.

  4. @Omar

    Coming from a Hispanic upbringing, this is something that has always bit me in the ass when dealing with American women. The culture tells you to never take any disrespect from a woman. Any time some sort of disrespect happens, you imagine your grandpa, your uncle, your father watching over you with a disappointed look expecting you to confront it. Most of the times you overcompensate.

    100% agree. But for me it is remembering the time when I was a pathetic needy and clingy beta taking shit from every chick. Causes you to overcompensate big time. Still better then before, in my opinion. At least you have self-respect and the attraction level for you actually goes up. The problem is drama.

  5. Does it really matter if she was six minutes late to your date/meet?

    Hah! I fall down on this one, not really any of the others. I’m very “northern European” when it comes to time. I don’t like being late myself and I don’t like other people (not only women) being late if I’m waiting for them.

    I ought to be a bit more specific. Obviously, living in a place like London or Sydney, where (between them) I spend more than 50 per cent of my time, people are sometimes unavoidably late because of traffic jams, problems on the trains, and so on. And of course people are sometimes late for some other perfectly good reason. I think it’s when people are late and then behave as if it simply doesn’t matter and is not important that is irritating to me. In my own defence I ought to add further that I’m not talking here about someone being five minutes late (which is usually neither here nor there) but someone being significantly late.

    I know I need to relax about this issue, esp where women are concerned. I don’t generally “make a thing” of it, but still…

  6. Great article.

    One thing I learned several years ago, was if you never tell a women what to do and they know you don’t get on to them if you disapprove of their choices; they are many times more likely to do what you say when you actually do tell them what to do.

    I reserve this for life/death or severe risk type situations. Which should be very rare.

    The shock of me actually being commanding in an assertive way (when usually I’m very “no fucks given, do what you want” or passive disapproval at most); usually makes them realize whatever it is must be serious and they should listen.

    In retrospect, it’s pretty interesting how compliant the girls have been when I’ve had to do this. Usually I go for the rebellious types, so it’s totally out of character for them.

  7. The shock of me actually being commanding in an assertive way usually makes them realize whatever it is must be serious and they should listen.

    By the way, this is also applicable to using profanity.

  8. Sometimes I struggle with differentiating outcome independence (not giving a fuck) with submissive beta-behaviour (let her do whatever she wants, even if I really don’t like it).

    “Fine! I’ll go out with some guy tomorrow for a coffee”

    With a sarcastic smirk “Don’t forget to have a good time”.

    And mean it.

    The look on their face is priceless. They are fuming inside. And the best part, they won’t do it.

    Beta behavior

    “Baby I’ll do whatever you want.”

    or

    while feeling hurt inside, say nothing.

    Aaaand they will do it.

    The difference is, giving a fuck and not giving fuck. If you give a fuck then it means you are not OI, even if you act like it.

  9. All men, myself included, are guilty of doing this from time to time, and the more serious the relationship, the more often you will be compelled to do it.

    Yes there is no escaping this. I find myself do this also to the more serious ones. For example if they have a bad habit, I’ll do a remark as an advice, but then I stop myself because I know I will be talking to a wall and they will continue doing it.

     

  10. The Best is when I have some friends who actually think I’m a Pussy for not tolerating Drama. Yea I know LOL

    See my variation to BD’s Zero Drama is I may do a Mild Guy Drama Moment just to make sure a small problem doesn’t turn into a big one later. Most of the time it works it works if it’s something within reason. It helps me maintain my frame, of course if I have to cross into being Mr Authoritarian ALPHA 1.0 HEAR ME ROAR .. I just get rid of those people One Hundred Percent, Totally and Entirely.

    Of course some people think I’m an asshole because they can’t run their games, but I’m actually super easy to get along with as long as you don’t do something that can make me lose face, at least you can’t be my friend and I won’t spend billable time with you LOL

    The trick is if I really feel like I have to get all Alpha 1.0 I just get rid of those people so I can stay Alpha 2.0. The same way I don’t hit women! SOOOO I avoid those women who who have a who actively goad men into domestic violence! We’ve all seen these crazy bitches!. Crazy Metaphor, but I think you guys get what I’m saying here. 

  11. On the Alpha 2.0 forum I mentioned that one woman asked me to come “just have lunch and chat” with her on my work lunch break, and she was insinuating no sex.  I eventually told her that the first thing to ruin relationships is when the sex gets cut out, so I would only be spending time with her if sex will be involved at some point.  One member told me this was “guy drama” and may seriously do damage.  A few others casually mentioned that I used guy logic and explained too much.  What would BD say?  She has since commented twice that she can’t do (this or that) with me because it would break my “rule”, because the context was doing something together that wouldn’t involve sex.  So I am aware now that this is on her mind and perhaps that was a bad choice of verbalizing that.  However I have not noticed any negative consequence from it as of yet and am still not sure I did anything wrong.

  12. Does it really matter if she was six minutes late to your date/meet?

    Hah! I fall down on this one, not really any of the others. I’m very “northern European” when it comes to time. I don’t like being late myself and I don’t like other people (not only women) being late if I’m waiting for them.

    I differ from BD on this slightly and it worked well for me.  Here’s what I did with a woman that was chronically late.  She still is 5-10 min late sometimes, but not nearly as bad as it was:

    The next time she showed up late (she had been 20 -30 or more minutes late often) I left before she made it there.  She called me.  I said, “I waited 20 minutes and you still weren’t there.  That’s fine, you are free to do whatever you want with your time, however my time is important, and I have friends that want to see me, so I am now with them.  I’ll call you when I’m on my way home in an hour if you want.”

    I had to pull this twice before she got it.  Second time she was beyond 20 minutes late again, but she saw me a few blocks away, leaving.  She called immediately and apologized.  I told her I was already on my way to see a friend and I’d get with her when I was finished.  She was annoyed this time so I simply told her, “I will never tell you what to do, and you are free to show up as late as you want, but I will tell you that if I get bored waiting too long, I will leave and go be with other people because my time is important.”  Ever since, she usually busts her ass and gets to me 0-5 minutes late.  I’m not a stickler for being on time, but 20 minutes or more is ridiculous.  I seriously have better shit to do with my time then sit for 20 minutes waiting to get laid.  If I can say anything changed about her, I’d say she earned a little more respect for me, and she often shows up on time or much closer.  I don’t think it put any negativity on to my relationship with her.

  13. I guess it’s all wrapped up in various categories of bdsm kinks, but the thing is that they want it more than just in the bedroom, they want it as a lifestyle

    As I’ve said before, that BDSM dominating lifestyle is a completely separate category from what we’re talking about and it doesn’t apply to some of what I’m saying. If a woman honestly wants to be a slave to a man at all times because it turns her on sexually, and the guy is an Alpha Male 1.0 who enjoys that kind of thing, even if it includes regular drama (which it does), then I have no problem with it, but it falls outside the purview of what I’m talking about here.

    There’s a lot of “ifs” in that statement though.

    It’s a good advice, but what do you do in your situation, where you live with PF and you really don’t like something.

    Dealing with this stuff when you actually live with someone is an entirely different topic and beyond the scope of this article.

    And you just said you’re a “young guy” so should be living alone right now and you shouldn’t even be thinking about this.

    The problem for me is my ego, it causes a lot of guy-drama.

    Correct. That’s the problem.

    Sometimes I struggle with differentiating outcome independence (not giving a fuck) with submissive beta-behaviour (let her do whatever she wants, even if I really don’t like it). You call both Alpha 2.0.

    Incorrect. Putting up with behavior you don’t like is not Alpha 2.0. The difference is how he handles it vs. a 1.0.

    The 1.0 lectures her and commands her to stop, and has drama when she doesn’t (which she won’t, at least over the long-term).

    The 2.0 says nothing, but then spends less time with her, downgrades her, soft nexts her, or hard nexts her, and spends more time with other women who don’t do things he doesn’t like. Far more conducive to happiness than the 1.0 method.

    Coming from a Hispanic upbringing, this is something that has always bit me in the ass when dealing with American women. The culture tells you to never take any disrespect from a woman. Any time some sort of disrespect happens, you imagine your grandpa, your uncle, your father watching over you with a disappointed look expecting you to confront it. Most of the times you overcompensate.

    Absolutely, and I’ve had other Hispanic men explain the same thing to me.

    This is classic cultural Societal Programming (the strongest type of Societal Programming), and as always, its your job to clean that bullshit out of your mind if you want to live a happy life.

    Your Hispanic grandpa/uncle/father didn’t give as shit about your long-term happiness when they did that… they cared only about their respect, family honor, and projection, none of which should matter to you as an independent adult.

    One thing I learned several years ago, was if you never tell a women what to do and they know you don’t get on to them if you disapprove of their choices; they are many times more likely to do what you say when you actually do tell them what to do.

    Precisely. There are exceptions to this rule of course, but more than 50% of the time it’s true. And it’s done so much easier than all the angst and yelling.

    I eventually told her that the first thing to ruin relationships is when the sex gets cut out, so I would only be spending time with her if sex will be involved at some point.  One member told me this was “guy drama” and may seriously do damage.  A few others casually mentioned that I used guy logic and explained too much.  What would BD say?

    BD would say they were correct and that you were verbalizing way, way too much.

    However I have not noticed any negative consequence from it as of yet and am still not sure I did anything wrong.

    Uh, did you fuck her? If the answer is no then I think you’ve found your negative consequence.

    The next time she showed up late (she had been 20 -30 or more minutes late often) I left before she made it there.  She called me.  I said, “I waited 20 minutes and you still weren’t there.  That’s fine, you are free to do whatever you want with your time, however my time is important, and I have friends that want to see me, so I am now with them.  I’ll call you when I’m on my way home in an hour if you want.”

    That is a great Alpha 2.0 approach and I don’t “differ” with that at all. Well done.

  14. @Blackdragon

    The 2.0 says nothing, but then spends less time with her, downgrades her, soft nexts her, or hard nexts her, and spends more time with other women who don’t do things he doesn’t like. Far more conducive to happiness than the 1.0 method.

    Isn’t it childish? Are you not acting like a pouting child? I am all for avoiding drama, but how can relationship work if you don’t communicate.

  15.  

    Isn’t it childish? Are you not acting like a pouting child? I am all for avoiding drama, but how can relationship work if you don’t communicate.

    And what tells you he doesn’t communicate? His answer is precisely about communicating… in the non-direct, more effective and peace-inducing way.

    Maybe he should have recommended readers Greene’s 48 Laws of Power, it’s the best read one can make on how to make others meet your wishes as much as possible (and yes, it’s never through reasoning, straight sincerity, and truth-searching, lol).

    I can give you my word for it, Alpha 1.0 ways don’t work or work briefly, because they don’t come out of an understanding of the human mind in general and female in the specific.
    Besides, even a submissive and much-in-love woman (the kind that will build internal resentment and leave you out of the blue, harrowing your mind; and the kind who has emotional issues that will “bite you in the ass” later) with the best intent cannot help you — because she knows nothing about her “internally building [negative] feelings” and she knows nothing about the fact she’s going to leave you tomorrow and she also can’t follow your reasoning and see the issues you are bringing up from a rational, non-ego-centered point of view.

     

    When you “correct”, their mind reads it as a personal aggression.
    The real content of your correction, and whether or not it is right, never crosses their mind. (A good number of men are no different ofc).

     

  16. @hollywood

     

    You did it entirely wrong regarding the “I meet only if I have sex” thing.
    That’s what, of all behaviours, will most lower your chances of having sex with her.

    Remember: even though she wants sex, her conscious mind can’t stand knowing she wants it.

    You have to sidestep the subject, create the conditions to increase her excitement, and then it must happen in a way so that she can tell herself it wasn’t her intention, it “just happened”.

     

  17. Isn’t it childish? Are you not acting like a pouting child?

    Item #32 here.

    I am all for avoiding drama, but how can relationship work if you don’t communicate.

    Who ever said I wasn’t communicating?

    And also read #6 and #20 in that above link.

  18. If what she’s doing is drama (which is not the result of your guy drama), then you should soft next her ass. No guy drama needed. Just vanish and follow the usual procedure.

    If it were me I would hard next. I have zero tolerance for drama, to the point where if I experience it from any chick I’m going out with, I have no problem just getting out of there and never talking to her again. Of course, every time I have done this, the chick starts blowing me up begging me to come back. To which I say nothing.

  19. Just a quick question.

    How is soft next different from the silent treatment?

    Silent treatment from her is considered a girl-drama.

    Is it like a guy-drama version of it?

    PS. I am not questioning the method here. Of course soft next is an important tool in our arsenal.

  20. This is gold.

    It perfectly relates to my recent situation after I tried bringing up an issue with a girl I was seeing. It doesn’t work and only creates even more drama. The usual pattern is they tactfully turn it around on you and make themselves the victim by accusing you of being aggressive and overreactive.

    Caleb’s strategy works because you’re simply being unreactive and passing her tests. Girls will consistently do things to try and cause you to get reactive. But the minute you do this, you’ve lost the frame and it’s game over.

    As a caveat, Alpha Male 1.0 behavior does tend to work well on Russian and FSU girls and seem to love being told off and put in their place and often leads to sex.

  21. I treated my employees in an Alpha 2.0 way for decades before I got divorced.

    Explain to them what I expected to be done, and get out of their way.  I don’t think I have ever raised my voice at a subordinate ever.

    One thing I learned early on is the power of disrespect (throwing drama) to destroy a working relationship, particularly with LatinX types.  Their egos can’t take it, and it destroys morale, and doesn’t build respect.

    Same for women.  You can communicate plenty without opening your mouth if you are outcome independent and not needy.

  22. I have met a few women, and I am sure that you have too, who literally fantasize about, and get all wet hoping that, the man in their life will treat them this way.

    Do you find these hard to recognize? I sometimes get it wrong. And it seems to me that even when I get it wrong its only that they are in that kind of mood sometimes and not always which is a big problem.

    The 1.0 lectures her and commands her to stop, and has drama when she doesn’t (which she won’t, at least over the long-term).

    The 2.0 says nothing, but then spends less time with her, downgrades her, soft nexts her, or hard nexts her, and spends more time with other women who don’t do things he doesn’t like. Far more conducive to happiness than the 1.0 method.

    I have a big problem with this as well. I tend to lecture women and people in general. Especially if they do something irrational or I see what they want and do isnt aligned then I feel the need to explain it to them. I can agree this isnt the right way, also because a lot of women have ran away from me or got incredibly angry when I did this. But here is another problem: going to spend time with other women who dont do this isnt a solution as far as I can see because they all do the stuff which makes me want to lecture them.

  23. It perfectly relates to my recent situation after I tried bringing up an issue with a girl I was seeing. It doesn’t work and only creates even more drama. The usual pattern is they tactfully turn it around on you and make themselves the victim by accusing you of being aggressive and overreactive.

    Yes I saw this many times. When I explained what I didn’t like and why the response was something in the direction that I am abusing her etc.

  24. BD, I’ve been giving my MLTR a lot of guy drama lately in the form of laying down rules, texting and calling her too much, asking to know who she’s with etc. The problem is I’m jealous of her other lovers. We’ve tried to work through it but I’m having trouble not picturing her with other guys when we’re not together. It’s gotten so bad I’ve told her we have to spend less time together until I can get perspective. The weird thing is I have two FBs who I’m not the slightest bit jealous. It’s just with my MLTR. Any suggestions for dealing with jealousy? This is becoming a real problem for me.

    Johnny

  25. Caleb what do your take on this?

    As a small variation of what you say of just essentially Falling Back/Downgrading your ladies/people in your life..

    What do you think of giving them a verbal warning/ inform them while having the intent to sever ties/walk if they don’t do what you want? You obviously don’t have to tell them your intent, but sometimes I feel people might be doing something that rubs you the wrong way when in reality they wouldn’t continue if it was just Communicated. 

    I feel like it’s still in line with Alpha 2.0 way of life.

  26. What do you think of giving them a verbal warning/ inform them while having the intent to sever ties/walk if they don’t do what you want? You obviously don’t have to tell them your intent, but sometimes I feel people might be doing something that rubs you the wrong way when in reality they wouldn’t continue if it was just Communicated.

    Thats basically giving an ultimatum.

  27. guy-drama usually takes the form of a lecture issued in order to correct behavior.

    So to clarify/double-check:

    If someone’s (especially a woman’s) behavior has the potential to affect me in a way that I don’t like, I still would need to take action to create a positive solution.  But using guy-drama wouldn’t solve anything in a long-term, positive way.  Creating a life that has a high-level of outcome independence seems to be the best long-term solution – and maintaining a good frame.

    But what are some good ways to handle situations in the meantime when one is still transitioning to a higher level of outcome independence? Someone with a more alpha1.0 attitude would practice more patience? And someone with a more beta attitude would practice being more assertive?

     

    Thanks

  28. I tend to lecture women and people in general. Especially if they do something irrational or I see what they want and do isnt aligned then I feel the need to explain it to them.

    Extremely outcome dependent.

    Work on that. Stop doing it, or at least work on cutting back.

    I can agree this isnt the right way, also because a lot of women have ran away from me or got incredibly angry when I did this.

    Exactly.

    But here is another problem: going to spend time with other women who dont do this isnt a solution as far as I can see because they all do the stuff which makes me want to lecture them.

    Then you need some new women.

    Any suggestions for dealing with jealousy?

    Chapter 14 in this book. If you can’t afford that book, Chapter 12 in this book will also help, but not as much.

    What do you think of giving them a verbal warning/ inform them while having the intent to sever ties/walk if they don’t do what you want? You obviously don’t have to tell them your intent, but sometimes I feel people might be doing something that rubs you the wrong way when in reality they wouldn’t continue if it was just Communicated.

    This is fine under certain conditions with a woman who has been in your life a very long time and knows you well, like a long-term high-end MLTR or OLTR. However, this is more of a verbal reiteration of what they should already know about you, not a threat or ultimatum that comes out of nowhere.

    It should also be a single statement, not a lecture. There’s a big difference.

    For example, there’s the 20 Second Rule, where you can indeed issue a single warning. I usually don’t, but when I do, it’s when a woman is raising her voice at me (or whatever), and I just shake my head and say something like, “You know I don’t do this.” Then if she persists I soft next. That’s a clear verbal communication, but not a lecture, nor drama.

    But what are some good ways to handle situations in the meantime when one is still transitioning to a higher level of outcome independence? Someone with a more alpha1.0 attitude would practice more patience? And someone with a more beta attitude would practice being more assertive?

    Those are very general and broad questions that I don’t have time to answer in a quick comment like this. Like I just said to the guy above, if you lecture people all the time, you probably can’t stop doing it tomorrow, but you can start working on it and start doing it less. Baby steps.

  29. How about dominants?

    Those women love to boss guys around and seem to create drama out of nowhere. What’s the right move to diffuse or even discourage it in an outcome independent way?

  30. How about dominants?

    Those women love to boss guys around and seem to create drama out of nowhere. What’s the right move to diffuse or even discourage it in an outcome independent way?

    Don’t date dominants.

    (Unless they’re distant, pure FB‘s and nothing else.) Read this.

  31. I eventually told her that the first thing to ruin relationships is when the sex gets cut out, so I would only be spending time with her if sex will be involved at some point.  One member told me this was “guy drama” and may seriously do damage.  A few others casually mentioned that I used guy logic and explained too much.  What would BD say?

    BD would say they were correct and that you were verbalizing way, way too much.

    However I have not noticed any negative consequence from it as of yet and am still not sure I did anything wrong.

    Uh, did you fuck her? If the answer is no then I think you’ve found your negative consequence.

    @hollywood You did it entirely wrong regarding the “I meet only if I have sex” thing.
    That’s what, of all behaviours, will most lower your chances of having sex with her.

    I really screwed up the wording of this and confused you both.  This is the same woman, I’ve been with her for 1.5 years and yes we’ve had lots of sex.  However I felt she was making an attempt to betaize me by trying to plan a sexless lunch break, so I told her that I don’t meet with her in situations where we won’t be having sex.  Was that guy drama?  Apparently it was verbalizing too much? And No, other than her bringing up twice since in about a month, nothing negative has happened that I am aware of.

  32. Then no, it wasn’t too much verbalization and it wasn’t guy drama, since you weren’t telling her what to do, just what you’ll do, and you’re dealing with a woman who has been having sex with you for 1.5 years.

    This is provided you only said this once. If you said it several times, now it’s guy drama.

  33. However I felt she was making an attempt to betaize me by trying to plan a sexless lunch break, so I told her that I don’t meet with her in situations where we won’t be having sex.

    Why not have sex in the restaurants bathroom during the lunch? If you think you cant have sex during a lunch meeting you need to work on your imagination.

  34. I tend to lecture women and people in general. Especially if they do something irrational or I see what they want and do isnt aligned then I feel the need to explain it to them.

    Extremely outcome dependent.

    Work on that. Stop doing it, or at least work on cutting back.

    I know, its a habbit of mine. Full disclosure, I have a very authoritarian tendencies. And it pisses me off when people dont do what I expect / command. I am fully aware that its not functional but its really hard for me to resist doing this.

    But here is another problem: going to spend time with other women who dont do this isnt a solution as far as I can see because they all do the stuff which makes me want to lecture them.

    Then you need some new women.

    Its true I did not have this problem with all women, but I do have it with most I have met. That is obviously still not ideal because the goal is to be able to work with most women not just 1 in 30 or something like that. I am not really sure what to do with this.

  35. Its true I did not have this problem with all women, but I do have it with most I have met.

    Then the problem is with you, not them.

    I am not really sure what to do with this.

    I have a podcast in my monthly coaching program about how to be less Alpha 1.0. Beyond that, read (or re-read) my primary book, since it has many chapters that directly apply to this problem.

  36. Political correctness detected. Initiating red pill countermeasures now:

    LatinX

    What. The. Fuck?????

    What in the holiest of fucks is this horse vomit?????????

     

  37. First this:

    “Fine! I’ll go out with some guy tomorrow for a coffee”

    With a sarcastic smirk “Don’t forget to have a good time”.

    And mean it.

    The look on their face is priceless. They are fuming inside.

    Then this:

    And the best part, they won’t do it.

    Why is that the best part? I thought you said to mean it, not just fake it.

     

  38. I’ve been giving my MLTR a lot of guy drama lately in the form of laying down rules,

    What sorts of rules?

    texting and calling her too much,

    Yeah, that’s needy.

    asking to know who she’s with etc.

    That’s none of your business. She’s not your girlfriend.

    The problem is I’m jealous of her other lovers.

    In other words, you have her on a pedestal. You think she should be guarded, protected, and hoarded like a precious diamond found in an African mine.

    Dude, this isn’t the stone age. There is more than one female per tribe. Plenty of other fish in the sea. She’s not that important.

    We’ve tried to work through it

    We? You mean, you confessed to her like a needy beta? Did you think that would do wonders for her attraction to you, or something?

    but I’m having trouble not picturing her with other guys when we’re not together.

    Then picture it. What’s wrong with picturing it? Even vividly?

    It’s gotten so bad I’ve told her we have to spend less time together until I can get perspective.

    Jesus dude, you’ve got oneitis bad! You’re acting like the provider guy and her attraction for you is rapidly fading because she sees that you can’t handle the truth like a real man. If she were smart, she’d just propose monogamy with you, drain you of your resources, and just cheat on you on the side.

    At least this way you won’t know about it and she doesn’t have to hear your whining.

    Any suggestions for dealing with jealousy?

    Have a threesome with her and another dude. Observe her getting passionately pounded by another man while her eyes are on you! Make out with her, have her suck your dick enthusiastically. Then switch places with the other guy and have her make out with him/suck his dick while you pound her.

    Then, after its over, you’ll see that she’s still there, still your MLTR, and still likes you. No one stole her from you. Nothing has changed. Everything is still the same. You didn’t lose her.

    Seriously, propose this to her and say that it will be good for the both of you. It’s called shock therapy!

    This is becoming a real problem for me.

    This is the fire you must go through during the MLTR phase. This is why all OLTRs which haven’t gone through the MLTR phase will be doomed to failure.

    She starts out as a fuck buddy who is fucking other men. Then you upgrade her to friend with benefits (while she’s still fucking other men). After six months to a year of that, you upgrade her to MLTR while she’s still fucking other men!

    But remember, during the MLTR phase, she’s allowed not just to fuck other men, but also, to fall in love with her other men, while continuing to be your MLTR. You must handle that as well. After it’s proven that you can handle that AND she’s chosen to fall in love with you, instead of one of her others, the test is over.

    Once the MLTR test is over, you may upgrade her to OLTR in which she isn’t allowed to date, or get emotional with, other men, but may only have casual sex with them!

    So the OLTR is a piece of cake in contrast to the fire of purification that is the MLTR! That’s why the MLTR (the harder of the two) comes first.

    If you can dodge a bullet, you can dodge a ball!

    The problem is that you can’t even handle her having sex – just sex – with other guys during the MLTR test. How will you react if she actually starts to date or get emotional with one of her other male MLTRs?

    Jeez man! You REALLY need to take her off the pedestal. Or, just go monogamous and have her cheat on you on the side. At least that way you won’t know anything and will be at peace. Your choice!

     

     

  39. PLEASE HELP, I just need to understand what is going on with this woman?

    I used to hang out at a smoothie shop after work. One day I saw a women(9-10) come to get drinks. The third time I saw her I aggressively approached her and asked her name then asked for her phone #. She said no but then said I could come visit her at the place she worked. I did not go to her place of work but she came back to my hangout(smoothie shop) and I approached again, grabbed her hand, and asked for her number. She was visibly flattered/taken by my boldness but refused to give her number. This pattern which included hugs/kino, continued for a year with push pull games being played by both of us. I finally ignored her she said NO when I asked if she would like to go for a walk and never seemed to commit. I found out that she left her place of work and moved away after recently graduating from college. Eight months had passed with NO CONTACT.  Last week I went into the smoothie shop and saw what looked like “her” behind the counter being trained. I couldn’t believe it.  I questioned what my eyes saw and decided I would go by there the next morning to make sure I was not seeing things. Sure enough it was her. Evidently this gal came back in town(city) and decided to get a lower paying job at my particular hangout where there were lots of game/drama between us. She could of chosen a 1000 places to work and for higher pay. What the hell is going on?
    When I went up to the counter and said hi she turned and gave me an intense stare for what seemed like eternity(5-10 seconds), no smile then said “do you still come here?” I said yes and said good to see you.  She said the same.  A few days later I went into the smoothie shop do do some of my work.  She could tell I was paying no attention to her so she started cleaning counters near me while showing off her ass to me.  I ignored.  I eventually went outside to talk on the cell when she came out and sat down with a customer right in front of me before she got up.  I finally approached and said her name, she turned and kind of rolled her eyes while smiling and looking into my eyes.  I asked where she was going and she said to find a bench to sit down on.  I said lets go to the corner coffee shop and get a seat.  She said no and turned around and said “Have a good day”.  Evidently it was a work break for her.
    Of note- I also noticed that a gal I knew at the shop had become friends with the 9-10 and now changed her makeup to look exactly like the 9-10 gal. The last couple of days the gal I know at the shop has started being super nice to me also. I can’t make this shit up.

    Please just help with understanding the psyche/psychology of a women that would actually work at a place like this just to enter my orbit and do this shit?

    Please no shaming or calls about oneitous, etc..  I just want to know what she is thinking from a red pill male with wisdom.

  40. PLEASE HELP,

    Help is here!

    I just need to understand what is going on with this woman?

    Short version: You’re an aggressive stalker and she is completely creeped out by you.

    Long version:

    The third time I saw her I aggressively approached her

    Mistake #1: You shouldn’t be aggressively approaching anybody, especially total strangers. Did she give you any approach invitations or choosing signals? If not, you’re uninvited.

    and asked her name then asked for her phone #.

    Just like that? No small talk? No social calibration? That is aggressive and creepy.

    She said no

    Duh!

    but then said I could come visit her at the place she worked.

    She’s a good employee, thinking that her business could use more money, and if she invites customers her boss will promote her. She’ll say, “that’s the guy I invited here” and her boss will be pleased!

    I did not go to her place of work but she came back to my hangout(smoothie shop) and I approached again, grabbed her hand, and asked for her number.

    This is physical assault. At this point, you’re a criminal. Dude, this isn’t a date! Don’t touch total strangers! It’s creepy.

    She was visibly flattered/taken by my boldness

    Maybe a little flattered, but come on dude, this is not cool. You need to chill. Wait for some indicators of interest first. Calibrate!

    but refused to give her number.

    Uh huh.

    This pattern which included hugs/kino,

    You put her in a stupid situation because of your aggression, so she went with the flow thinking that that’s the best way to get rid of this harasser.

    continued for over a year with push pull games being played by both of us.

    Over a year? Then she’s obviously not interested. If she hasn’t fucked you in over a year, she won’t start now. I’d wager it wasn’t mutual. She’s just playing along in order to minimize awkwardness.

    I finally ignored her she said NO when I asked if she would like to go for a walk and never seemed to commit.

    She’s not interested. She’s just playing along because you’re aggressive and socially uncalibrated and she doesn’t want to make a scene. Move on.

    Evidently this gal came back in town(city) and decided to get a lower paying job at my particular hangout where there were lots of game/drama between us. She could of chosen a 1000 places to work and for higher pay. What the hell is going on?

    Nothing is going on. Not everything is about you.

    When I went up to the counter and said hi she turned and gave me an intense stare for what seemed like eternity(5-10 seconds), no smile

    She was horrified that her stalker is still there.

    then said “do you still come here?”

    Bingo! She got a job there because she thought you’d no longer be a problem!

    I said yes and said good to see you.  She said the same.

    She has to be polite to the customers.

    A few days later I went into the smoothie shop do do some of my work.  She could tell I was paying no attention to her so she started cleaning counters near me

    She’s just doing her job.

    while showing off her ass to me.

    Your imagination. Or she just wants a tip.

    I ignored.  I eventually went outside to talk on the cell when she came out and sat down with a customer right in front of me before she got up.  I finally approached and said her name, she turned and kind of rolled her eyes

    Leave her alone!!!!!!

    I asked where she was going and she said to find a bench to sit down on.  I said lets go to the corner coffee shop and get a seat.  She said no and turned around and said “Have a good day”.

    LEAVE HER ALONE!!!! YOU’RE CREEPY!!!!

    Please just help with understanding the psyche of a women that would actually work at a place like this just to enter my orbit and do this shit?

    She isn’t “entering into your orbit.” As she herself mentioned, she didn’t even think you were there anymore. And she knows that you’ve been fixated on her for over a year, which is damn weak!

    Please no shaming or calls about oneitous, etc..

    Are you fucking anyone else?

    I just want to know what she is thinking from a red pill male with wisdom.

    She’s thinking that you’re a creep who probably hasn’t gotten laid in years. She vacillates between playing with your harmless ass and thinking that maybe she’ll get some tips or money for her business out of you and thinking that you’re a stalker whom she may wish to alert her boss about.

    Dude, you don’t creep on women whom you haven’t even had sex with for over a year like that. Save what’s left of your dignity, move on, and leave the poor woman alone and let her make her money!

     

  41. “This is physical assault. At this point, you’re a criminal. Dude, this isn’t a date! Don’t touch total strangers! It’s creepy.”

    I stopped reading your reply after this. Your criminal theory is bullshit and does not make sense.   What PC garbage the directives in this country have created.  Amazing how jealous and angry grown men get at this. I had 2 dudes get so passive aggressive because of jealousy. This scenario is such a litmus test for who is a pussy. Did have a couple of older gents who I considered wise say there is no way in hell this is a coincident. Just too many factors.
    Why are there woman on the site?

  42. I stopped reading your reply after this.

    Your mistake.

    What PC garbage the directives in this country have created.

    It’s called the law! Nothing to do with PC. Physically grabbing someone is a crime, and always has been!

    You have to be a woman.

    No, just an ex-lawyer!

     

  43. Amazing how jealous and angry grown men get at this.

    Jealous? What the fuck? I’m not jealous of you breaking the law! Nor am I angry. Just telling you how it is.

    This scenario is such a litmus test for who is a pussy.

    So…..refusing to do something illegal makes me a pussy?

    Did have a couple of older gents who I considered wise say there is no way in hell this is a coincident. Just too many things to make it a coincident.

    For fuck sake, it’s been over a year! And she STILL refuses to give you her phone number, STILL refuses to go for a walk with you, STILL refuses to do anything with you…………AFTER A YEAR!!!!!!!

    What do those wise men tell you about that? It’s over man! Move on!

     

     

  44. Your criminal theory is bullshit and does not make sense.

    Wherever you went to law school, you need to sue them and get your money back.

    Take it from someone who actually graduated a real law school – non-consensual physical grabbing is a crime!!!!! Physically touching or grabbing total strangers whom you’re not on a date with is a crime!

    This isn’t theory, it’s legal fact!

     

  45. Why are there woman on the site?

    There have always been women on this site, but I’m a man!

    Telling you what the law says (as a law school graduate) doesn’t make me a woman!

     

  46. “There have always been women on this site, but I’m a man!”

    LOL, yeah whatever. You are dumb as shit that is for sure.

    The law blog is down the street to the right.

     

     

  47. You are dumb as shit that is for sure

    Because I told you not to physically grab strangers? I’d say informing you about the law is smart, since you obviously don’t know what the law is

    The law blog is down the street to the right.

    I almost never bring up the law here, unless someone breaks it (which is rare).

     

     

  48. Just to add a couple things:

    Amazing how jealous

    Did you fuck her? Did you kiss her? Did you get her number?

    You have to give me something to be jealous of first. Creeping on her for over a year and getting nothing in return = no jealousy! LOL!

    Your criminal theory is bullshit and does not make sense.

    Then keep touching people against their will and see what happens.

    It’s your funeral man! Just make sure you do everything the officer tells you to do, and keep your hands where he can see them (don’t even reach for your ID unless he asks).

     

  49. “You have to give me something to be jealous of first.”

    She kept coming back to the smoothie shop numerous times which included kino.  Hugs and holding her hand.

    The person she works with at the smoothie shop has now changed her attitude toward me significantly the past few days.  Trying to get my attention and being extra nice.  If the 9-10 was creeped out she would of told the gal she works with that it was the case.

    You created a fantasy legal scenario because of your passive aggressive jealousy.  Surely your reading comprehension is not that bad.  If it is then dumb shit fits.  A women does not continue to come back to a situation which creeps her out.  Think you feminine pos.  We are talking 70 iq.

     

     

  50. Jimmy – I realize Jack’s comments can be irritating, but personal ad hominem attacks are not allowed on this blog. Please read the posting rules before continuing to post comments here. Thanks in advance.

  51. She kept coming back to the smoothie shop numerous times which included kino.  Hugs and holding her hand.

    Did she initiate that? If she did, or if it was clearly mutual, then I stand corrected. You weren’t completely clear before though. No need to get this defensive.

    The person she works with at the smoothie shop has now changed her attitude toward me significantly the past few days.  Trying to get my attention and being extra nice.  If the 9-10 was creeped out she would of told the gal she works with that it was the case.

    Okay, then I was wrong. But seriously, chill out.

    You created a fantasy legal scenario

    That wasn’t fantasy. You described approaching her and physically grabbing her hand before any of the other closeness happened between you two. Nothing came of it this time, but seriously, you should tone that down when a woman is still a stranger towards you.

    because of your passive aggressive jealousy.

    LOL! I’m fine with my sex life dude. I even have a girlfriend. I wouldn’t get jealous of a guy who never even kissed the girl. The jealousy thing is your fantasy.

    Surely your reading comprehension is not that bad.  If it is then dumb shit fits.  A women does not continue to come back to a situation which creeps her out.

    Like I said, you weren’t clear before about the mutual hugs and all that. You made it sound like you kept initiating and hugging her while she was rolling her eyes. Just be clearer next time and it’s cool.

    Think you feminine pos.  We are talking 70 iq.

    HAHA! Ok. Have a nice day. 🙂

     

  52. “Jimmy – I realize Jack’s comments can be irritating, but personal ad hominem attacks are not allowed on this blog. Please read the posting rules before continuing to post comments here. Thanks in advance.”

    Understand. Will do.

    “That is aggressive and creepy.”

    “She’s a good employee, thinking that her business could use more money, and if she invites customers her boss will promote her. She’ll say, “that’s the guy I invited here” and her boss will be pleased!”

    LMFAO!  Yes, so she invites the creepy guy to the business she works at. 

    White Knights.

  53. LMFAO!  Yes, so she invites the creepy guy to the business she works at.

    There are women who aren’t sexually attracted to a man, but still want to use him for non-sexual things, like money, professional advancement, etc… So it’s possible.

    Again, thanks for clarifying the mutuality of the physical contact. It didn’t sound like that at first.

    White Knights.

    LOL! If you knew anything about my posting history here, you’d know how retarded that accusation is.

    Not a white knight. Just initially confused about some of the stuff you wrote in your first post. That’s all.

     

  54. Black Dragon or anyone else that does not have an axe to grind, I would appreciate some kind of answer regarding the psychology of this gal from what I have written.  I am trying to avoid any kind of pissing contest.  Not looking for advice, just someones perception of this gals hamster/psychology.

     

    Thanks

  55. Short version: You’re an aggressive stalker and she is completely creeped out by you.

    The Oneitis is bad with this one!

    Jack pretty much nails it.  But, I think he is also way needy which makes it that much worse.

  56. “The Oneitis is bad with this one!”

    I did not see her or think about her for 8 months.  She now takes a low paying job where I hang and injects herself into my world making friends with people I know.  The reading comprehension is a concern for me.  The older alpha 1.0 warned me that peoples hind brains would not be able to handle my situation as it goes against their biased directives.  A 9-10 creeping is not what most men can comprehend.

    What is truly amazing is how hard it is for men to give a simple read on a  woman these days.

  57. I suspect that no one here cold approaches.  The alpha 1.0 said it was a lost art which the deep state is criminalizing.  Also men don’t have the balls to do it anymore.

    FWIW, It can change your life for the better.

  58. “Chapter 14 in this book. If you can’t afford that book, Chapter 12 in this book will also help, but not as much.”

    Thank you, Caleb. I went ahead and ordered the Open Relationships Manual. Looking forward to reading it!

    Johnny

  59. I suspect that no one here cold approaches.

    You would be wrong.

    I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you aren’t any good at it. It’s only a crime if it’s unwelcome.

  60. “You would be wrong.”- Alright, good to know.

     

    “I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you aren’t any good at it. It’s only a crime if it’s unwelcome.”

    That limb broke.  I am the best.  And your crime comment validates my thesis.

  61. I did not see her or think about her for 8 months.  She now takes a low paying job where I hang and injects herself into my world making friends with people I know.  The reading comprehension is a concern for me.  The older alpha 1.0 warned me that peoples hind brains would not be able to handle my situation as it goes against their biased directives.  A 9-10 creeping is not what most men can comprehend.

    What is truly amazing is how hard it is for men to give a simple read on a  woman these days.

    Is it only me or is this comment completely incomprehensible? Seems he contradicts himself several times there especially in the context.

    Perhaps you can rephrase it if you expect some kind of response/discussion?

  62. I am the best.

    Clearly – that’s why you are asking for advice from novices.

    @AO

    Because he’s the best!  It’s obvious that the problems he’s expecting are WAY PAST us.  We are being graced by his presence*.

    *or, this is why men get a reputation for being creepy MGTOW incels. Because this bro is getting laid like tile!  Except for this one special lady.

     

     

  63. Ah I see, because he is the best we cannot comprehend his comments because the content of his comments is way ahead of us.

  64. Like I just said to the guy above, if you lecture people all the time, you probably can’t stop doing it tomorrow, but you can start working on it and start doing it less. Baby steps.

    Cool – makes sense, thanks!  And coming from the other side (too-beta), the baby steps would be practicing assertiveness.

  65. “Is it only me or is this comment completely incomprehensible? Seems he contradicts himself several times there especially in the context.

    Perhaps you can rephrase it if you expect some kind of response/discussion?”

    Read the original story.  There was no contact for 8 months.

  66. By the way how do I practice being more patient? Its clear that its a good thing to do and everyone always says it everywhere and that I need to practice it, but so far no one was able to explain to me exactly how to do that.

  67. Read the original story.  There was no contact for 8 months.

    That part is clear, but not the rest of that post.

  68. “What is truly amazing is how hard it is for men to give a simple read on a  woman these days.”

    Because I am just straight forward I would of just taken 3 minutes to answer a question… saying what I thought her motives were and what she is trying to do.  Because women are conniving and premeditated. Men need to learn this.
    It is extremely hard for most men to react in a functional manner these days because of all the feminine insecurities and thus pissing contests start.

    Truth.

  69. @Jimmy

    What is truly amazing is how hard it is for men to give a simple read on a woman these days.

    No one here knows this woman, and the situation you’ve described sounds highly unusual. Therefore, while we can take a stab at interpreting the sequence of events you’ve described, no one here can tell you with any real accuracy what she’s really thinking or what’s motivating her life choices. What’s worse is that you’re clearly not receptive to interpretations you don’t like.

    Why does understanding her ‘psyche’ matter to you so much? If some omnipotent being could give you the exact answer, how would that answer inform your future actions?

    Then again, maybe you’re just trolling us.

  70. The exchanges between Jimmy and JOTB = Why Alpha 1 Guy Drama is feminine. Just look at it, what man with balls would even entertain any of that? lol

  71. this is why men get a reputation for being creepy MGTOW incels. Because this bro is getting laid like tile!  Except for this one special lady.

    LMAO I got that vibe too. Its pretty hilarious. Unsettling, but hilarious.

  72. The exchanges between Jimmy and JOTB = Why Alpha 1 Guy Drama is feminine. Just look at it, what man with balls would even entertain any of that? lol

    Ummm………………..it’s……………………….fun?

  73. Ummm………………..it’s……………………….fun?

    Touche. Everyone has their forms of entertainment I suppose. But I find it pretty difficult to believe that you are having fun squawking at others on blogs like this. BD’s rules just do not make it a platform to have any REAL fun. Which is good, I suppose.

    A little history lesson, I would go on kiwifarms, /pol/, and The Misc and stuff to shitpost and have fun messing with people online. Used to do it on social networking all the time, but the NSA has pretty much appropriated that platform, I can’t do it there anymore. Or at least not without risk. It was really fun triggering people on there too.

    I’ve been banned from SO many instagram and twitter pages, you wouldn’t believe. Has to be in the thousands. On /pol/ we would have contests about it haha. Three magic letters were all I ever needed: “kys.” Post that on any given social media page, and you’ll get banned in seconds in most cases. Even on some message boards/blogs too haha. Good times, but I understand that it was really toxic and a tragic waste of energy. Still its crazy what the power of those three simple letters hold now. Nowadays if you get caught putting them on a person’s insta or twitter page you can get fined or something lol. Its hilarious, but massively unsettling at the same time.

    tbh, I don’t even do that stuff anymore now that I’ve realized that its no better than watching porn or doing drugs. But if you are indeed having fun, more power to ya mane.

    I look forward to the next user you decide to have a verbal war with on here. I’ll have my popcorn ready.

  74. @Jimmy

    1) http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/

    2) Have you ever heard that… men shit-test too?
    Especially a newcomer to “their” forum, comments section, work department, sports team, …

    Outside the Box’s first reply to you was a shit-test, requesting to be shrugged off.
    Not that none of what he said makes sense; just the way he delivered it makes it a roughly delivered shit test.
    And what do you do? You enter an argument, and never stop replying.

    3) Please no shaming or calls about oneitous, etc..  I just want to know what she is thinking from a red pill male with wisdom.

    Look at how you ended your post, addressed at the male readers here. What it communicates is the opposite of confidence.

    Piece 2) and 3) together, and you have beta behavior.
    Add your relation of the story with that woman, and where does it point to? Again beta behavior.

    **
    Now there are two possible case scenarios.
    She either isn’t attracted to you in the least; she is mildly attracted to you, but your beta behavior keeps her attraction below the threshold of action (or “consent”).

    What to do to play your chances at best? Minimize beta, use some alpha spice.

    Get another girlfriend who’s decently looking, and nonchalantly go with her to this smoothie place.
    Go to the same place with some decently good looking male friends. Maybe you, your male friends, your new gf, and their gfs.

    Use new talking routines with her. The normal human mind is liable to being programmed, to positive and negative reinforcement. If you have asked her number many times, somewhere in her neurons there is an entrenched “NO” response to that question. You have to find a workaround.
    But this must come after you minimize beta and add alpha spice to your persona.

    Even your shows of indifference are too brief; after a while you are back at it. This won’t make her interested in you. Indifference must be genuine, real inside you, for it to affect her.

    All in all the best route to get this woman interested in you (assuming it as a possibility) is that you first get another, decently attractive, girlfriend, and are seen together (without making it too obvious / blatant a display).

     

    Also, try to be funny. Not in a “male teenager cracks a joke after another in an obvious attempt to flirt with teenage girl”.
    It must be done in a mature, nonchalant, way.
    Funny, relaxed, … talk to her one out of 5/6 times you are there. Do small talk. Dress better.
    Oneitis is your worst enemy in all this.

  75. “2) Have you ever heard that… men shit-test too?
    Especially a newcomer to “their” forum, comments section, work department, sports team, …”

    Fair and true.

    “Look at how you ended your post, addressed at the male readers here. What it communicates is the opposite of confidence.”

    Yes, my confidence in a lack of secure men these days was showing.

    “Piece 2) and 3) together, and you have beta behavior.
    Add your relation of the story with that woman, and where does it point to? Again beta behavior.”

    Well to be fair I had a couple of beta reactions with her during our interactions by saying things which caused her to freak out about. Although I had buddies giving me high fives it would have been better to ignore her off hand insults.

    Italy, I think your comments are fair.  I will admit to some of my frustration/emotion with her has to do with inserting herself into my orbit in almost a power play sort of way.  Think about it like this.  For me to get away from her I have to change things in my life.  Don’t kid yourself she knows this.  As I like to say men can be putt putt while women PGA when it comes to being premeditated and conniving.

    Appreciate the comments

  76. “Get another girlfriend who’s decently looking, and nonchalantly go with her to this smoothie place.”

     

    BTW, nice call.  I would normally  no contact the bitch but it would require me to make changes in my life which could validate her.  The only thing that can challenge NC is another attractive woman.  It is amazing how that can hit them to their core.

  77. Bloopers accuse RP guys of “lacking nuance” on a regular basis. When I initiate “guy drama” then in the vast majority of cases it is problem solved. Women may be dumb but they are not stupid. Tell them what annoys you and they stop it unless a) it is important to them or b) they WANT to piss you off for their own messed up mental reasons.  Sure, NEXT in those cases but for the other 65% or whatever you just push them away if you NEXT. Get them back in the program.

  78. @Jimmy

    She’s a prick tease. Any guy who’s cold approached or run game through social circle will have come across this type of girl.
    She does the old ‘cat string theory’ on guys by at once, showing interest by flirting/hugging etc.. but not actually agreeing to give her contact details/go on a date.
    They get off on the attention and getting the guy all worked up as it’s an ego boost to her, validating her ability to attract any guy who shows an interest..
     

  79. @Jimmy

    You have received several good answers here.  You have shrugged off many of those good answers.  If it was me, I’d remove myself from the situation of seeing this woman at all.  Reason is, at the very least, her 9/10 status in your mind is causing beta behavior from you.  Spending a year working on a specific woman is beta no matter how you look at it.  You can argue til you’re blue in the face, but spending a year on a woman is a giant waste of time even if there was an 8 month break in there.  Read BD’s advice all over the blog about “abundance mentality”.  If you had an abundance mentality, you would have stopped giving this woman a second thought 11.5 months ago.

  80. “She’s a prick tease. Any guy who’s cold approached or run game through social circle will have come across this type of girl.
    She does the old ‘cat string theory’ on guys by at once, showing interest by flirting/hugging etc.. but not actually agreeing to give her contact details/go on a date.
    They get off on the attention and getting the guy all worked up as it’s an ego boost to her, validating her ability to attract any guy who shows an interest..”

     

    Neil,

    Yes, well she is getting off on something.

    Thanks

  81. “You have received several good answers here.”

    LOL, nice.

    “If it was me, I’d remove myself from the situation of seeing this woman at all.  Reason is, at the very least, her 9/10 status in your mind is causing beta behavior from you.”

    hollywood, did you read my comment about preferring to go NC?  I already did it for 8 months.  She keeps injecting herself into my world dude.  What is wrong with you people?   I am honest enough to admit some beta mistakes but most of the people here have missed the Elephant in the kitchen. She could of got a job at a 1000 places. She has a college degree. Look where she got a job after 8 months of NC. Come on, the hamstering is epic.  I have to repeat things over and over again because of hamstering.  I only went to the place she worked a few times in the past situation.  Two of those times I was on a date with 9’s.  One 9 aggressively put her tongue down my throat and it was at lunchtime.  She was noticeably hurt.  I can’t even tell you most of my shit because people would explode on these forums.  So my bad for even posting this on here.

    “Spending a year working on a specific woman is beta no matter how you look at it.”

    Well on the surface that is true but she was coming to my place versus me going to her establishment on a 8 to 1 basis.  I put in little effort.  Comprehende?

    “You can argue til you’re blue in the face”

    No, not gonna do it with a group of beta’s. I am done now.

    Read BD’s advice all over the blog about “abundance mentality”.  If you had an abundance mentality, you would have stopped giving this woman a second thought 11.5 months ago.”

    BD has some good stuff.  His short game is excellent and some of his advice is top notch.  In regards to abundance it is quite the opposite.  My dgaf attitude along with my dress and inner game sometimes needs to be calibrated in the real world because it can be intimidating.  I also have issues with hetero guys stalking me.

    Regards

     

     

  82.  

    I stopped reading your reply after this.

     
    Jimmy,  I would highly recommend that you continue reading that reply, if anything so you can get a more well-rounded point of view.
     
    Also, as a woman myself, I don’t know exactly why she was doing some of that stuff in your story, but bottom line, if she still hasn’t wanted to give you her number and hang out with you, then it’s quite certain she is not interested at all.
     
    The part that kind of confused me was when you said she started cleaning off tables near you and was showing off her ass to you…….but I remember when I was younger, like 19-20, working kind of a part-time cake job just like that.  Anyways, there was this one guy who was very weird but he was very talkative.  (I’m not implying that you are weird, I’m just describing how this guy was.) He’d come up to our work a few days a week and start up conversations with all of us young girls there.  Some of them blew him off and avoided him straight off.  Now……the more mischievous ones like myself and my one friend, AND depending on our mood that day, would mess with him.  We’d act friendly, gave him fake names, etc.  It was like a game, we’d be like, “here he comes!”  It was just us goofing around to make the day fun or to have a funny story to tell our other friends.  (Also let it be known that sometimes we’d ignore him/try to shoo him away. Like I said, it depended on our mood that day) I’m not saying that is what was going on in your situation, but I’m just telling you what we used to do.

  83. BTW, props to Neil!  The only man who really ANSWERED THE question. He blew my thesis out of the water that there are no secure men communicating on this forum.

  84. “The part that kind of confused me was when you said she started cleaning off tables near you and was showing off her ass to you”

    YES, but then she followed it up by following me outside and sat down facing me while I was on the phone.  There was definitely ioi’s being shown which is why I decided to even talk to her.  Could the ioi’s have been false?  Sure, anything is possible.

    Bulma, I understand why you would take the legal scenario so serious.

     

    Regards

  85.  

    YES, but then she followed it up by following me outside and sat down facing me while I was on the phone.  There was definitely ioi’s being shown which is why I decided to even talk to her.  Could the ioi’s have been false?  Sure, anything is possible.
     
    Bulma, I understand why you would take the legal scenario so serious.

     
    Hi Jimmy,
    If it came off like I was taking an “alleged” legal scenario seriously, I wasn’t; I actually believe people need to toughen up and stop calling out “sexual harassment!” for every stupid thing.
     
    Yah, I forgot about that second part of the story, it is very weird, so I don’t blame you for being confused.  I think that since you always have gone to this smoothie place that you should always continue to go.  It seems like it is kind of your territory and always has been long before she showed up.  Also, if I was truly creeped out by a guy that I knew frequented a particular place, I certainly would not get a job there……but I know Jack said above, maybe she got a job there because she thought you’d no longer be around after all of that time passing.  Maybe when she asked, do you still come here? And you said yes, maybe in her mind she was like, “Shit!”  Who knows, maybe she told her co-worker, “omg! you’ll never believe this, but this guy that used to come up here all the time and talk to me and ask for my number is still here!” Maybe her co-worker thought it was funny and dared her to go out there and sit by you.  I’m just naming some bad reasons, but there could be a hundred reasons, bad or good.  I have no idea!  I mean, if she is a 9/10, I’m sure she must be banging some other guy(s) right? Or have a boyfriend(s)?  Well I think the one guy above had some good advice and it seems like you’ve done this a few times already; taking another girl with you to the smoothie place or going with a group of guy friends.  I really don’t know what else to say!

  86. YES, but then she followed it up by following me outside and sat down facing me while I was on the phone.  There was definitely ioi’s being shown which is why I decided to even talk to her.  Could the ioi’s have been false?  Sure, anything is possible.

    Question for you – why are you so obsessed with this girl? For all we know based on this story she could just be mental. Why dont you get some other girl(s)?

  87. “Yah, I forgot about that second part of the story, it is very weird”

    Bulma, weird in regards to this situation is an understatement.  As for your other scenarios I say anything is possible.  BTW I did see the mutual friend today and she orbited me with flirty intentions.  Would say my social proof with the friend is strong though.

     

    “Question for you – why are you so obsessed with this girl? For all we know based on this story she could just be mental. Why dont you get some other girl(s)?”

    Alpha, I did NC for 8 months=no obsession.  Make no mistake I am worked up now that she injected herself into my world.  Also your point about “mental” HAS to be seriously considered.  Have had woman come back after NC but this would take the cake if it was premeditated.  I have heard about coincidences like this but I just haven’t seen one.

  88. Jimmy is “Guy Drama”!

    Yeah. He is. Lots of sand in his vagina. Meh. That’s just how it is.

    He’s also quite fake, trying to act like Sonny Arvado or JMULV (the two LEGIT best people at cold approaching, look them up: They are the real deal) when he says he is the best at cold approaching. He isn’t. I can tell he probably came here from either RSD, or Roosh’s boards, both of which preach using guy drama as a pickup technique. Guess what it doesn’t work. Being normal, inviting chicks places, having good EFA, knowing your LMS levels vs your target market, then putting in the numbers works. Not worrying about what ONE chick at a coffee shop is doing.

    Why anyone even entertained anything he wrote on here is beyond me. Save for JOTB, since he enjoys that kind of stuff somehow.

  89. I suspect that no one here cold approaches.  The alpha 1.0 said it was a lost art which the deep state is criminalizing.

    Well I guess my legal knowledge is needed here if you’re going to say shit like this:

    Cold approaching is legal, unless you do one of three things:

    1. Physically assault her, or touch her without permission:

    You approaching her as a total stranger and physically grabbing her hand counts as assault, which is a crime. You may not physically touch or grab a person without their obvious permission, especially if they are a total stranger, like she was in your case when you grabbed her hand.

    2. Follow her after she tries to walk away from you:  

    If she attempts to walk away from you, but you follow her against her will, this means you are involuntarily turning her into a captive audience, which counts as stalking and is a crime.

    3. Constantly bother her or show up near her after she has expressed disinterest:

    If you keep showing up where she is or constantly try to contact or communicate with her even after she has told you to leave her alone, this is criminal harassment. It doesn’t even have to be sexual. It’s a crime to harass people in any way after they told you to stay away from them.

    Other than these three things, you’re legally fine. Continue cold approaching.

     

     

  90. Touche. Everyone has their forms of entertainment I suppose. But I find it pretty difficult to believe that you are having fun squawking at others on blogs like this. BD’s rules just do not make it a platform to have any REAL fun. Which is good, I suppose.

    It’s not just fun. It’s also educational. I enjoy spreading knowledge and learning from people too. All of those things are fun for me, but I also believe them to be useful to certain readers. Especially those asking questions about the topic of the blog post.

    Elaborating on the topic at hand, exchanging ideas, and calling out those with bad ideas is fun. But I don’t do it just to pointlessly troll.

    Nowadays if you get caught putting them on a person’s insta or twitter page you can get fined or something lol. Its hilarious, but massively unsettling at the same time.

    No dude, you can’t get fined for telling someone to kill themselves. That’s Free Speech. The government might fine you in Canada or something, but we’re not talking here about foreign tyrannies.

    its no better than watching porn or doing drugs. But if you are indeed having fun, more power to ya mane.

    Again, I see it also as spreading red pill knowledge. Everything I do here has a practical purpose in my mind as well, but I’m also having fun, yes.

    I look forward to the next user you decide to have a verbal war with on here. I’ll have my popcorn ready.

    Have fun! 🙂

     

     

  91. Other than these three things, you’re legally fine. Continue cold approaching.

    But our lovely specimen did all three of those things…and probably does every time he cold approaches cuz its what Roosh told him to do lol. And of course, because Roosh’s crowds think they are the best at everything because they possess a cock n’ balls and make sure they maintain their hugboxes as such, he then believes he is the best.

    No dude, you can’t get fined for telling someone to kill themselves.

    I’ve heard stories to the contrary, but its just hearsay. Hell, people who say that kind of stuff online should get PAID for it, but only if they got good lulz or if others join in. I’d rather have a system where if you troll someone and get good lulz, you get paid, but if you don’t get good lulz and get called out, THEN you get fined.

    I actually think if the general public was more accepting and even encouraging about teasing, bullying, and trolling, there would likely be a lot less of it. It was going to be one of the reasons why I wanted to be a schoolteacher: I was going to hold lectures about how to properly mess with someone and how to properly react if someone messes with you. I was gonna post a big sign in my classroom: “Bullying is cool. Being butthurt is not.” I was even gonna tease certain students about certain things and let them get at me right back. But that wouldn’t have lasted long haha.

    I’ve been pro-bullying/teasing/trolling my whole life because when you stop being butthurt from it and just laugh along, that’s when you develop REAL outcome independence.

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