A few weeks ago, I wrote this article regarding the many factors you need to weigh before you make the decision on whether or not to have children, or when to have them. In that article, I mentioned there were some unusual scenarios where you could simply have kids and not worry about many of the negative factors I outlined. Today I will describe these scenarios.

Right up front I have to say that the majority of you will not fall into any of the categories I’m about to describe. Some of you will, but most of you will not. Others of you don’t fall into these categories yet, but perhaps will later in your life. Just be aware of this.

Here are the scenarios in which you are free to simply crank out all the kids you want without needing to worry too much about the negatives. Granted, you still need to read the list of negatives I outlined in the prior article, but they won’t affect you nearly as much if you’re in one of the below categories.

1. You are wealthy, meaning you have a net worth of $10 million or more.

As I’ve said before, men who have a net worth of $10 million or more live in a different world than the rest of us. If you have $22 million, you are free to impregnate as many women as you like, and it probably won’t affect your lifestyle or finances in any noticeable way (unless you chose it to be so). In this article I talked about how it’s perfectly fine if Kate Winslet has three kids from three different men, because Kate Winslet has countless millions of dollars to more than take care of those kids, even if she had ten more. Friggin’ Eddie Murphy has nine kids. Hey, with is money, perfectly fine.

Please note that I said if you had $10 million or more, not if you were a “millionaire.” If you have something like $1.5 million or $2.2 million, you’re technically a millionaire, but because of today’s dramatically devalued currency valuations, you’re nowhere near wealthy and are still quite within the middle class. Granted, you’re in the upper middle class, middle class with style, but you’re not wealthy. Not even close.

So no, I’m talking about a $10 million dollar net worth or more; below that, this doesn’t apply, even if you have a few million dollars of net worth.

2. You are a total loser with no job, no income, no money, and never really plan on having any.

This is pretty much the opposite of the above one, but strangely, it still applies.

Many years ago I met a black guy at a party. He was perfectly normal looking, but had a decent level of confidence and game, as many black guys do. In casual conversation, he mentioned he had eight kids with seven different women. I was shocked. He was only about 28 years old. I had never met someone like this before (though I have many times since.)

Such a concept was so alien to me that I started pelting him with questions.

“How in the hell are you able to pay your bills?” I asked him, “With seven different women going after you for child support, aren’t you getting 100% of your paychecks garnished to hell every time you get paid?”

He shrugged and said, “I ain’t got no job. So I ain’t got no money. I haven’t had any money or income in six years. How they gonna garnish me if I ain’t got no job? Fuck those bitches!”

He was right. He had no job, no income, and no money to speak of for many years. Usually he would just live at friend’s houses, and often he was homeless. Even if the women pressed it with the government, he had no steady address to issue legal paperwork and notices. (This is yet another example of a low-SMV man, a homeless black guy, who was getting laid left and right, and at least some of the women he was having sex with were cute; I know because two of them were at that party. Yet another example why the guys who scream “100% of success with women is all about SMV and nothing else!!!” are full of shit. But I digress.)

So yeah, if you have literally no money and never plan on having any for the rest of your life, I suppose you could have all the kids you want. You won’t be very happy, your life will be pretty screwed up, and you won’t be a very good father, but it’s technically an option.

3. You can easily afford a full-time nanny to raise your kids for you.

If you can easily hire a full-time nanny to take care of all the child-rearing work for you and the mother of your children, you do indeed mitigate much of the negatives and freedom-sapping aspects of having children.

The problem is the emphasis on the word easily. In the USA, a full-time nanny is going to cost you, on average, $3,031 per month if she doesn’t live with you and $2,803 if she does (source). Can you easily afford around $3,000 per month on top of all your usual living expenses, taxes, business expenses, travel expenses, entertainment expenses, paying off debt, and investing a strong percentage of your income for long-term savings and retirement?

Probably not. But for those of you who can, it’s certainly an option.

4. You can “hand off” your kid to some other person in your family who will take care of it for free.

As I’ve talked about before, this is how many teenage or near-teenage single mothers get away with having kids… they just hand the baby over to their mom, and the mom raises it. The mom does this for free. Even if the young girl has another baby, she just hands it over to her mom again. Down the road, when the young girl is older and a little more mature, she takes the kid back from her mom and raises it on her own. (Maybe.)

A ridiculous and harmful system for all parties involved to be sure, but it “works” for the irresponsible girl having the baby. So if, for some reason, you have the ability and the desire to crank out a baby and just hand it over to someone in your family who will take over the responsibilities of raising the child for free, that’s an option. Not an option I’d recommend, but an option.

5. Impregnate women in the third world.

In my business consulting practice, I once worked with a high-income, cranky old bastard in his early sixties who would regularly take long trips to SE Asia on his vacations. Once there, he would have tons of sex with both hookers and “girlfriends,” youngish women (age 25-35) with whom he’d have temporary relationships with. Many of these women he actually married and then later divorced. He had been married eight times (so far).

He didn’t give a shit about using condoms, so he impregnated a decent number of these women over the years and had many children. I never got the exact number from him, but I could tell it was a lot.

He never suffered financially because he would just fly back to the USA and get away scot-free. There were minimal child support laws in these countries, and even if there were, he was foreigner who only spent a few weeks a year in these places. The rest of the time he was an ocean away in the US, protected from any foreign government going after him for child support money.

My understanding from guys who do a lot of third-world fucking is that doing this kind of thing is not as easy as it once was, since women in countries with zero child support or alimony laws tend to be a little more choosy about the men they have sex with without condoms (apparently this is a big thing in Colombia, as one example).

Regardless, if you only want to have kids with third-world women in third-world countries where you don’t live and are not a citizen, this indeed is a way around many of the negatives I mentioned in the first article about having kids. Obviously I don’t recommend being a total asshole about it like the old man I just spoke about though.

6. Impregnate married women.

Oh Jesus. This is another option I don’t recommend but that I admit is available. Because monogamy doesn’t work, around 18% of children born are not the child of the fathers they think they are. If you impregnate a woman who is married, in all likelihood she’ll just assume the baby is her husband’s (or know it’s not husband’s and just not tell him), freeing you of any financial obligation. Obviously you won’t be able to actually raise your child though.

If you’re desperate to have kids but want to do so while getting around some of the negatives, there may be a few other ways to do it that I haven’t mentioned above. Just realize that they all require some very odd lifestyle choices in which the vast majority of the men reading these words will have little interest.

As always, having kids is one of the largest decisions of your entire life, with life-long ramifications, both good and bad, that you need to evaluate and be prepared for. Thus, I will repeat my rule I stated in the last article about this: YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE KIDS UNLESS YOUR DESIRE TO HAVE KIDS IS AT LEAST AN EIGHT ON THE ONE TO TEN SCALE. If your attitude about having kids in the future is “eh, maybe” or “eh, I don’t know” then you should not have kids.

75 Comments on “The Decision on Whether or Not to Have Kids – Part 2

  1. Nice article and great points.

    A few sidenotes:

    1) Did you know that with a networth of ~460K you are top 1% of the global population?

    “But Maldek, we are talking about the US (or EU) here, the 3rd worlders do not apply” You may say.

    But did you know that with the same ~460K net worth you are within the top 20% in the united states?

    Your example of a net worth of 2.2m U$ will put you into the top 5% in the united states according to 2017 data.

    As you may know i am very pro-children and would reason that a networth of 500K to 1m in the US or EU is enough to qualify. If somebody is willing to leave the first world and live in cheaper areas of the world a net worth 300K-500K would be enough to live decent from passive investment income alone.

    Other than the fact that 10m U$ is WAY to high and 99.99% of your readers will never have this amount of money, your points are solid.

    2) All good and true. If your black guy was young with a good and muscular body AND no fear to have children he sure as hell DID have a decent SMV. Maybe a relationship value of 0 but for raw sex with the idea to give her a baby, such guys are valued by women. But now I do disgress.

    In Europe there are several socialists states where you could even LIVE from having many children. The mother would get paid from the goverment for taking care of her children at home as if working for up to 3 years. After that the goverment will still pay something monthly until the child is 18. If the father has no income he can apply for unemployment and other social transfers AND work outside they system if he wanted.

    There are islamic families with 3 wifes and 23 kids you are receiving up to Eur 30.000 per month in total. And no, I didnt make any typing errors in this amount. Now that you know this, are you still wondering why so many immigrants want into germany?

    3) Why not have a stay-at-home mom instead?

    4) I happened to be such a child myself. I was raised the first 10 years of my life by my grand ma because my mother divorced my dad and wanted to focus on her career. This is the worst of all given reasons to have children.

    5) My area of expertise. Living in south america since 2009 and having adviced countless expats on local investments, this one works like a charm.

    You have a passport from the US (or EU) and you live in country A,B,C while your money is in country D and F. You have your monthtly passive income you draw from ATM in any country you want. There is nothing the local laws can do to you, other than minimal child support. The mothers know this and will treat their husbands like a king. Marriage to one woman and having 1-2 more girlfriends in different houses is not uncommon.

    Often legal children with all, payed for everything for under U$ 50.000 per year including your own way-above-average lifestyle. A capital of U$ 500.000 will generate this passive income reliably, including insurance against losses. You would be surprised how MANY guys around 35-65 are doing this with wifes from 16-26.

    One of the best ways to have a big family in our time and age if one has the means and does so desire.

  2. #4 is a little bit like a modern variation of the old times, when families were living together and helping each other out.

    #2 that guy lol

  3. This is yet another example of a low-SMV man, a homeless black guy, who was getting laid left and right, and at least some of the women he was having sex with were cute; I know because two of them were at that party. Yet another example why the guys who scream “100% of success with women is all about SMV and nothing else!!!” are full of shit. But I digress.

    That only works if you are “broke AF” and are not white. The “ghetto fabulous broke AF Nigga” stereotype yields a very VERY high SMV if said stereotype is outcome independent (which many brothas are not, no matter how much money they have).

    You gotta remember that we live in an age where the white man is blamed for everything. The stereotype is that if you are white, there is no excuse to never have money because according to progressive people who write our society’s narratives, white people are born with magical powers that automatically make them rich and powerful. Sooo, a poor white person is low SMV unless you can hide it really well 😉

  4. the last one is classic cuckoldry ”alpha fucks beta bucks”

    a woman always dream about getting a good genes but unfortunately majority of good looking guys are fuck boys having abundance and will not settle down easily, which always likely means they probably don’t have enough financial resource cause they’re not nerdy. Nice guys always want to prove to his woman how ‘intelligent’ he’s in the conversation…

  5. As you may know i am very pro-children and would reason that a networth of 500K to 1m in the US or EU is enough to qualify.

    Utterly incorrect. Not nearly enough. Kids are expensive as hell for 18+ years and a guy with 500K or $1M is going to need every penny of that money to retire (plus more), not spend on his kids.

    If somebody is willing to leave the first world and live in cheaper areas of the world a net worth 300K-500K would be enough to live decent from passive investment income alone.

    Correct, as I talked about here.

    Other than the fact that 10m U$ is WAY to high and 99.99% of your readers will never have this amount of money, your points are solid.

    That is my point and I said that in the article.

    If your black guy was young with a good and muscular body

    He was not muscular at all nor attractive. He was skinny and average looking. He had low SMV. Nice try.

    In Europe there are several socialists states where you could even LIVE from having many children.

    Ah, good point, and I should have included that. Yes, in certain socialist countries you could indeed impregnate women and get away with it because your fellow taxpayer will be forced and gunpoint to clean up your mess for you. I’ve mentioned this a few times before but forgot to include it in the above list.

    Why not have a stay-at-home mom instead?

    Who pays for all of her bills and living expenses? That just increases your cost even more.

    That only works if you are “broke AF” and are not white. The “ghetto fabulous broke AF Nigga” stereotype yields a very VERY high SMV

    Yeah right. How stupid. Sure guys, keep fishing for reasons why a skinny, average looking, homeless black guy with no money is “high SMV.” He was low SMV. And getting laid a lot. Sorry if that disturbs your narrative about SMV, but facts are facts.

  6. This article doesn’t take into account the ethics of having children. For example, if you have a desire to have children (maybe a 6 or 7 out of 10, let’s say), but also believe that you are such a good parent and are of such good genetic stock that your children will enjoy a better-than-average life, you should have children, as the addition of happy children increases the world’s well-being.

    See Roger Chao’s treatise on Negative Average Preference Utilitarianism:
    http://www.philosophyoflife.org/jpl201204.pdf

  7. What’s the source for the 18 percent wrong dad thing? Seems high

    A study they did in the UK a few years back. When I get a few minutes I’ll try to dig it out. And sure, it may be high if you look at the entire Western world as as whole.

    This article doesn’t take into account the ethics of having children.

    I do not discuss morals, ethics, or “what’s good for society/the world” on this blog. Read this if you want to know why.

  8. you are such a good parent and are of such good genetic stock that your children will enjoy a better-than-average life, you should have children, as the addition of happy children increases the world’s well-being.

    If you care about the world, and BD is right that you shouldn’t, you should still note that there are much more productive ways to help the world’s well-being than introducing children into it. In particular, raising an orphan is strictly better.

    As for ethics, there’s also another issue. It would be a blow to my own happiness to know I fathered child(ren) which are now with some single mother and aren’t getting adequately raised.

  9. But did you know that with the same ~460K net worth you are within the top 20% in the united states?

    If you have no debt and 10 dollars in your pocket, you are wealthier than the bottom 25% already.

    Yep, things are that bad.

    In particular, raising an orphan is strictly better.

    Not necessarily because there is a genetic component to IQ (and therefore, success).

  10. BD, I’ve been reading your posts for a while now, and have learned a lot from your perspective as well as my own experiences and observations.

    I understand the idea that getting hitched nowadays is way riskier than it ever has been in history, but I still think the best outcome in terms of happiness is being with one person to settle down with eventually.

    Coming to the conclusion that having multiple relationships on some kind of rotation, while she also is allowed to fuck other guys, is some kind of new age hippie free love borderline cuck shit IMO.  No offense, just my opinion.  I think the only way one would come to that conclusion is either they are horned up like a 18 year old, and all they want to do is fuck, or if they’re over 40 and still need sex to that degree, then you probably got a sex addiction possibly.  Either way I don’t really care, you can do what you want, I’m just stating my opinion.

    Just from reading your history with women, and being a uber beta in the past, yes I said uber, cause even in my past when I was somewhat beta, I still would have never entertained the idea to get into a serious relationship or even marry a chick who has a kid from another relationship.  I’m sorry, but there is beta and there is being a cuck, and I’m not saying you were a 100 percent cuck, but more like 95%.  Its hard to become a true alpha after that, and I think it shows when you’re totally fine with allowing your “rotation” girls to fuck other guys.  Call me a hypocrite, old fashion, or whatever you want to call me, but a girl hooking up with other guys is a lot different than a guy, biologically and emotionally.

    So I’m just wondering if the alpha male 2.0 is even really alpha, but rather some new excuse for some sex addicted cuck, do get off…basically.

    There are a lot of guys, usually men with a lot of money, or good looks, or fame, where they care about nothing but their dick.  They could almost care less about the girls experience, and see women in a way as some kind of sex doll.  Then there are other like me, who I have no desire to fuck a girl, if she doesn’t want to fuck me for the right reasons, not status, money, or even good looks, but a genuine attraction where she wants my kid.

    So to sum it up, I think your bad marriage experience was a combination of a few things.  One is you married a girl who was looking for the beta provider to bail her out of a bad situation, and you and your dick couldn’t say no.  Two, it was all about your dick and you didn’t have game back then to keep a wife interested.

    Too say that since you couldn’t make it work, when I personally know many people who have, and that the best option out of a list of somewhat bad options is to have an open relationship with as many women as you want, seems more like a sex addiction masked as high sex drive.

    I understand I’m assuming a lot of things, but tell me where I’m wrong.

  11. I did one and two as it turns out. I never had a high income, and for the most part it has always been on the down low, so I pay min child support. I had my daughter with a barely legal girl that was also a spoiled brat who was very selfish. She pawned off our daughter and a kid from another dude on her mom. So the mom does most of the day to day grunt work, while baby’s mom gets mostly the rewarding parts. My daughter gets to go to a good school and live in good neighborhood, surrounded by a huge extended family that loves her, while I get to see her twice a week. Not bad I guess.

    In the case of point two, there are a lot of thugs out there that I’ve met just like the one BD described, that still see their kids, and their baby mamma doesn’t sue them for CS. It’s funny, even though they owe it it’s still like the girl would be a bitch is she did that in their minds. Ha ha the many differences between white middle class suburbia and the hood.

    If I had a high largely unreported income I would definitely try to have more kids from different women. Not because I don’t believe that children don’t need two parent’s preferably in the same home (because I believe they do). I actually wouldn’t mind raising one or two children with a woman, but I know that it won’t work out, since they always either crank up the drama, are unreasonable and ask for more stuff, or they get bored and don’t want to live with you any more. Only option is to stay amicable and continue co-parenting the child between two separate houses.

    If this ends up happening, then I’ll end up racking up more kids as time goes on (or I’ll get snipped at some point). Of course I would stay in the same city so that I could see them every weekend and be a part of their lives. In any event, my plan is to travel for now, but I’m sure I’ll meet a girl in some city and I’ll end up settling down for how ever long. :sigh:

    You gotta remember that we live in an age where the white man is blamed for everything. The stereotype is that if you are white, there is no excuse to never have money because according to progressive people who write our society’s narratives, white people are born with magical powers that automatically make them rich and powerful. Sooo, a poor white person is low SMV unless you can hide it really well

    I’m sure there are plenty of white Chads that are broke or have “loser” jobs out there. Go to Boston I’m sure you’ll find some over there. What you are saying mostly applies to betas that derive their self worth from society.

  12. 7. Have a child and then give it up for adoption to a loving infertile couple who always wanted babies.

    This is not something I would ever do, nor would I ever adopt a child myself, but it’s an option.

     

  13. Another option: sperm donor. I did this back in grad school. I got paid tens of thousands of dollars to do what I was gonna do anyway. I now have 29 kids all over the USA, all raised and paid for by someone else.

  14. Why not have a stay-at-home mom instead?

    1. Because I’m against prostitution and will never allow another adult to be a parasite upon my bank account or resources. If I’m consenting to have one child, I mean one, not two. Supporting a woman that you’re having sex with (as if she’s a child) is implicit philosophical pedophilia, in my opinion.

    I don’t want to have sex with a resource extracting parasite. Taking care of other adults, as if they are children, is for betas, male servants, and female supremacists. I actually have self respect.

    2. I want to make sure that a woman who is having sex with me is doing it only because she is genuinely sexually attracted to me. The only way to be sure of that is to know that she can walk away from me at any time without losing anything, while she chooses not to from a position of strength.

    Making a woman financially dependent on me would cause her sexual lust for me to be given a materialistic safety net which has the potential of putting the relationship on life support if she’s no longer sexually attracted to me, thus motivating her to live in hypocrisy, like a prostitute.

    If sexual horniness rests on a safety net of materialistic resources, it has no motivation to maintain its vitality, which means, it usually vanishes with the resting in the form of making her materialistic survival a higher priority than her lust, thus swallowing up the lust.

     

     

     

     

  15. Ooooohhh #2 there a lot of those where I live and those stupid chicks then look to guys like us so we’ll take care of em and be their providers (because they don’t have time for that bullshit no more).. yeaaa #PSYCHE

    This is why I’m getting snipped but storing enough Sperm for 2-3 kids via IUI’s and IVF’s if my partner has complications where we need IVF. Thing is I don’t want kids till I’m in my 40’s. I live in California where it costs a lot to live and a lot to raise kids.

    Totally proves that SMV doesn’t mean shit when you’re trying to fuck. Now obviously it helps, but

  16. I still think the best outcome in terms of happiness is being with one person to settle down with eventually.

    I agree and I’ve said that many times. Just don’t do it by promising or expecting eternal monogamy or by legally combining your finances. Do it like I did it with Pink Firefly.

    Coming to the conclusion that having multiple relationships on some kind of rotation, while she also is allowed to fuck other guys, is some kind of new age hippie free love borderline cuck shit IMO.

    Okay. Then have fun getting divorced and/or getting caught cheating on your GF/wife. You may not like my system, but at least my system works. Yours does not.

    So I’m just wondering if the alpha male 2.0 is even really alpha, but rather some new excuse for some sex addicted cuck, do get off…basically.

    Incorrect. I do not experience any sexual pleasure, happiness, or satisfaction if a woman I’m fucking fucks another man. I view it as a necessary evil to avoid a system that clearly doesn’t work (long-term monogamy), not as something I enjoy.

    Too say that since you couldn’t make it work, when I personally know many people who have

    Read objection #35 here.

    I also strongly suggest reading that entire article, since you seem to be delusional regarding thinking long-term monogamous marriage works for most humans just because you feel jealous. It does not, and your personal feelings have nothing to do with facts, biology, science, and the statistics.

    seems more like a sex addiction masked as high sex drive.

    Incorrect. Read this and this.

    And I’m not going to comment on the stupid things I did 25 years ago. The man who did those things is not me.

    7. Have a child and then give it up for adoption to a loving infertile couple who always wanted babies.

    Not really an option, since legally that’s up to the woman, not you.

    Another option: sperm donor.

    Technically that’s an option for men who don’t want to raise their own kids. However! I don’t recommend this because in many countries, they are starting to allow women to find the sperm donor, even if he was anonymous, and legally go after him for child support. Not a good trend to bank on long-term.

    I did this back in grad school. I got paid tens of thousands of dollars to do what I was gonna do anyway. I now have 29 kids all over the USA, all raised and paid for by someone else.

    Holy fuck!

    Ooooohhh #2 there a lot of those where I live

    There are lots of those guys everywhere.

    And there will be more.

    This is why I’m getting snipped but storing enough Sperm for 2-3 kids via IUI’s and IVF’s if my partner has complications where we need IVF.

    Good move.

    Totally proves that SMV doesn’t mean shit when you’re trying to fuck. Now obviously it helps

    Correct. As I’ve said (and shown) numerous times, SMV is a factor, and an important one, it’s not 100% of the entire equation. Saying so is just a way to justify one’s own lack of results and to make excuses.

  17. Sooo, a poor white person is low SMV unless you can hide it really well

    Then how do you explain the fact that every new woman who I fuck initially thinks I’m a janitor’s assistant, or the guy in a chicken costume standing outside KFC handing out coupons?

     

  18. I always sort of wondered why, say, Bill Gates stopped at 3 kids. He could definitely afford a 4th.

  19. Slut shaming and Disney purity detected. Initiating red pill countermeasures now:

    I still think the best outcome in terms of happiness is being with one person to settle down with eventually.

    Really? You think the best outcome is giving one woman a sexual monopoly over your balls? What if she refuses sex, thus turning you into an involuntary celibate?

    What are your thoughts on putting all of your money into one stock?

    Coming to the conclusion that having multiple relationships on some kind of rotation,

    No. Not “multiple relationships.” Only one serious relationship, plus multiple fuck buddies. Difference!

    while she also is allowed to fuck other guys,

    As distinguished from what? Her cheating on you? And then you having to throw away the entire loving relationship just to maintain your self respect? You…..think that’s smart?

    is some kind of new age hippie free love

    What’s wrong with free love? Do you have a low sex drive, or something?

    borderline cuck shit IMO.

    No. A cuckold is someone who enjoys watching his woman fuck other men while he masturbates. Or a man who derives sexual pleasure out of watching his woman get pounded by someone else while he himself never participates and never has sex with anyone but her.

    That’s not what we recommend here.

    No offense, just my opinion.

    Your opinion is ignorant of dictionary definitions. So you think you should be a woman’s only source of sex? Do you realize how needy, insecure, and annoying that would make her?

    I think the only way one would come to that conclusion is either they are horned up like a 18 year old,

    So…….your sex drive is super low. Got it.

    and all they want to do is fuck,

    No. I want a serious and loving relationship (plus children) with the woman I’m in love with, while, at the same time, avoiding the slavery of a sexual monopoly.

    Sexual competition creates incentive to never take each other for granted, knowing that you can technically lose each other at any time. It keeps both of you on your toes and motivates you to be nice, sweet, and angelic to each other.

    By contrast, your sexual monopoly idea tends towards tyranny, sexual dictatorship, involuntary celibacy, and absolute misery that can only be escaped by cheating, or opening up the relationship.

    or if they’re over 40 and still need sex to that degree, then you probably got a sex addiction possibly.

    HAHAHA! You asexuals make me laugh. Not every heterosexual has a sex addiction. A sex addiction is when you hate sex, but can’t stop doing it, regardless of whether the person you’re screwing is attractive to you or not.

    Having sex because you love it, and only with people whom you’re sexually turned on by is, by definition, not sex addiction. It’s just a healthy sex drive – which is something that you lack.

    Just from reading your history with women, and being a uber beta in the past,

    And in your present. Since you’ve admitted that you have a low sex drive and are into Disney forever monogamy. That’s not alpha.

    in my past when I was somewhat beta,

    As distinguished from the Disney man you are now? What’s the difference?

    I still would have never entertained the idea to get into a serious relationship or even marry a chick who has a kid from another relationship.

    I agree here. I would never take care of another man’s sperm.

    Its hard to become a true alpha after that, and I think it shows when you’re totally fine with allowing your “rotation” girls to fuck other guys.

    As distinguished from what? Them cheating on you? And then you having to throw away the entire loving relationship just to maintain your self respect? You……..don’t see that as a waste?

    Call me a hypocrite,

    You are.

    old fashion,

    Check.

    or whatever you want to call me,

    Disney Puritan. By definition.

    but a girl hooking up with other guys is a lot different than a guy, biologically and emotionally.

    Dude, like a beta, you are pedestaling her. You’re acting as if she’s a rare and precious diamond whom you must guard from other men with electric fences and laser guided missiles.

    Why care if she fucks other men? She’s not that special and is certainly not worthy of being worshipped or hoarded.

    So I’m just wondering if the alpha male 2.0 is even really alpha, but rather some new excuse for some sex addicted cuck, do get off…basically.

    You obviously don’t know the definition of cuckold. And, just as obviously, you don’t know the definition of sex addict. Though, I suppose, a low sex drive dude like you fails to see the difference between a sex addict and a high sex drive person.

    There are a lot of guys, usually men with a lot of money, or good looks, or fame, where they care about nothing but their dick.  They could almost care less about the girls experience, and see women in a way as some kind of sex doll.

    I am the opposite of that type of guy. Those are the men who fuck hookers and housewives (same difference) because they don’t care if a woman is horny or if she’s just being mechanical to put food on her table.

    Then there are other like me, who I have no desire to fuck a girl, if she doesn’t want to fuck me for the right reasons, not status, money, or even good looks, but a genuine attraction where she wants my kid.

    What? So…..you’re not attracted to women who don’t want to have your baby? Jesus man, your sex drive is insanely low!

    Too say that since you couldn’t make it work, when I personally know many people who have, and that the best option out of a list of somewhat bad options is to have an open relationship with as many women as you want, seems more like a sex addiction masked as high sex drive.

    So wanting sexual variety is sex addiction? Wanting threesomes is sex addiction? Wanting group sex is sex addiction? Wanting to partner swap is sex addiction?

    Then what’s a high sex drive? Monogamy?

    What will you do when she refuses sex? What will you do when she cheats on you? How can you be sure she hasn’t? We no longer live in a world of neighbors observing neighbors. Will you put spyware on her computer? Stalk her wherever she goes? Track the gps on her phone? That’s pretty needy dude!

    I understand I’m assuming a lot of things, but tell me where I’m wrong.

    You have a very low sex drive and are into the Disney fantasy, which requires a totalitarian society in which neighbors observe neighbors, slut shaming is massive, a puritanical religion rules the government, privacy is criminalized, individualism is laughed at, and cheaters, poly people, and high sex drive individuals like me are imprisoned or put to death. In other words, pure hell.

    But since we don’t live in that type of society, it is you who is going to have to adapt to us. Or just move to Saudi Arabia. Your choice.

  20. Another option: sperm donor. I did this back in grad school. I got paid tens of thousands of dollars to do what I was gonna do anyway. I now have 29 kids all over the USA, all raised and paid for by someone else.

    Careful. Check your state laws on sperm banks. You might get hit with 29 separate child support orders within 10-15 years. Good luck.

  21. He was low SMV. And getting laid a lot. Sorry if that disturbs your narrative about SMV, but facts are facts.

    Of course guys with low SMV can still have good sex lives, if they know what their target market is. Allow me to explain further. It didn’t disturb my narrative about SMV at all: If you put in the numbers with people with your SMV level or lower, you’ll still get laid a lot. With people higher than your SMV you’ll just have to triple your commitment.

    Since he was aiming for his target market who also have a low SMV (unattractive physiques, drug use, single moms etc), his SMV was high for them. And since most modern hip hop lionizes the “Broke AF Nigga who hustles for cash” this makes that certain stereotype extremely attractive to women with low SMV (again, bigger chicks, chicks with drug problems, single moms etc). So he had an advantage there. Also, broke AF Niggas tend to get their name out at ridiculous rates and put in the numbers like crazy. Sure they may be outcome dependent while doing it and their game is really REALLY bad, but they still do it like crazy. Thus, they get results.

    I’m sure there are plenty of white Chads that are broke or have “loser” jobs out there. Go to Boston I’m sure you’ll find some over there. What you are saying mostly applies to betas that derive their self worth from society.

    And according to BD’s books, those types of betas account for a fair amount of men. So its pretty relevant. And yeah they may have crappy jobs but because they are good looking guys, they can get away with it because looks matter more than many think. But other stuff matters as well. However, like BD says, you can take one trait and just run with it. Which is an option if you are a good looking white guy who has a “loser” job/lifestyle.

    I was just arguing that there are varying degrees of SMV and that they are more subjective than many may think.

  22. Not really an option, since legally that’s up to the woman, not you.

    Legally, the father has to agree before the woman gives the child up for adoption, unless the father cannot be located, or family court has already established that he has zero rights to the child for whatever reason.

    Otherwise, the man may petition family court to give him access to his child, which would legally forbid the woman from giving it up for adoption (unless she wants to give it up to him).

    It is true though that the woman has to agree to give the child up, unless the father goes to family court and obtains sole custody by getting her declared an unfit mother. Then he may do with the child whatever he wants, including give it up.

     

  23. Funny how Deep thoughts finds two-way nonmonogamy “borderline cuck”, then attributes the problem to “sex addiction” on the guy’s part. Some basic logic required here: is your problem the excess of sex or the woman being allowed to fuck on the side?

  24. Blackdragon can We PLEASE have a post about guy #2. I think a lot of us need to learn some moves from those type a guys. The Loser Game has it’s merits as we can see. Obviously not all of it, however these types are very outcome independent!

    I feel like many of us here secretly resent and envy the Guy #2 types. Instead of hating on him and saying he can only get such and such types of chicks, BLAH, BLAH,BLAH..

    Let’s be real lol! They obviously has a real cornerstone in the dating free market and we really need to analyze it! We may even need to outsource some other guys to help us on this.

  25. Jack,

    “Really? You think the best outcome is giving one woman a sexual monopoly over your balls? What if she refuses sex, thus turning you into an involuntary celibate?””No. Not “multiple relationships.” Only one serious relationship, plus multiple fuck buddies. Difference!”

    If she refuses sex, then were done, I’m moving on.  I never said anything about marriage btw, you assumed I’m under some delusional Disney fantasy, which couldn’t be further from the truth.

    “Your opinion is ignorant of dictionary definitions. So you think you should be a woman’s only source of sex? Do you realize how needy, insecure, and annoying that would make her?”

    Yes, if I’m with a chick, I think I should be the only one giving her dick.  Shocking I knw.  If she’s not loyal, the best we can be is fuck buddies.  But you’re right, I’m just insecure cause I would kick her ass to the curb if I knew she wasn’t loyal to me.  SMH.  In a way what you’re doing, by letting your girl fuck other dudes, is what an insecure beta would do.

    “What? So…..you’re not attracted to women who don’t want to have your baby? Jesus man, your sex drive is insanely low!”

    I wouldn’t say I’m not attracted to the women, I just see sex differently than you and Black Dragon.  For example, if there were two girls, one was a 7, and the other was a 10.  The 7 is totally into me, we have great chemisty, the sex is great etc.  The 10 is more fake, we don’t have the same outlook on life, and the sexual chemistry isn’t there.  If were fucking, its not from genuine attraction, but more of a transactional deal, where she give me sex, and I provide a nice life for her.  I’m taking the 7 everytime.  I see a lot of older men dating younger women, and I’m sure if he didn’t have money, she wouldn’t be fucking him.  I have no interest in transactional intimacy.

    It’s not that my sex drive is low, it swings between very high, and normal.  I’m not sex crazed like I used to be, and back then, it was all about variety, but I was never satisfied.  No amount of variety would satisfy.    My point is that if you’re with a girl, and you feel the need to fuck other women, then just breakup.   That’s great, be fuck buddies.  I’m not even advocating marriage, just saying for most men, we want loyalty.   If we don’t get it, then move on, next her.  But most men don’t know how to spot the difference between good women and a chick who will eventually cheat.  Too many back in the day Black Dragons out there, who are just clueless.

    But if your sex drive dictates variety, then that’s great for you.  Do what you need I guess.  Some guys would rather have or at least try to have a genuine loyal relationship, where we don’t need to fuck anybody else.  Nothing is guaranteed, but its worth striving for at least.

  26. @Jack

    By contrast, your sexual monopoly idea tends towards tyranny, sexual dictatorship, involuntary celibacy, and absolute misery that can only be escaped by cheating, or opening up the relationship.

    Let’s not demonize the idea of monogamy, ok? We all know its far from perfect, but no matter how flawed it is, it’s not a hell on Earth you are describing. I agree with Blackdragon that it doesn’t work long-term, but I think Deep Thoughts has got the point too. Both systems have some really shitty sides to them. Let’s stay objective.

    As for the babies, I live in Europe, in one of the most socialistic states – Ireland. If you have a kid and separate with a girl, you can pay as little as €50 a week in child support with some very lenient enforcement procedures. The government will take the rest of the expenses. Being a single mom here is like winning a frickin’ lottery.

  27. Funny coincidence that you posted this recently,I think I’ve sort of figured out a way for people to determine if they truly wish to pursue parenthood:

    1. Take Parenting training programs from a reliable source. (you’d have to do your own research for this,but “evidence-based parenting programs” might be a good start. I’m not talking about reading books or watching videos,but attending an actual program. That may cost you,but guess what? Actual parenthood will cost you far more,and cost at least 18-20+ years of your time.) This should give you what you need to know in order to properly raise a child(The last thing you want is to end up stuck with a spoiled little shit. that will ruin your life)

    2. Sign up for short-term fostering. This should give you a taste of parenthood without the making the permanent decision. Even if your application gets rejected,the screening process may open your eyes and learn all kinds of things about yourself and what parenthood really is all about. This is the experience of one of the people I spoke to about this,our conversation can be located over here:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Fencesitter/comments/88gjuy/shortterm_fostering_a_good_idea_for_fencesitters/

    At the very least,this should give you live-experience and a chance to apply what you’ve learned from parenting training. It’ll refine your approach to parenting if it really is what you want. (and who knows? maybe you’ll fall in love with one of the kids you’re fostering and permanently adopt them.)

    I’m childfree,but if I ever end up “changing my mind” (and according to BD,this is likely,but I’m already an anomaly in many other areas so I doubt it),this is how I’d go about it.

    Another option,though not as good as doing the above:
    -Temporarily take up a job as a nanny,and see whether or not you’re still up for it after.

     

    Just my 2 cents…

  28. Yes, if I’m with a chick, I think I should be the only one giving her dick.  Shocking I knw.  If she’s not loyal, the best we can be is fuck buddies.  But you’re right, I’m just insecure cause I would kick her ass to the curb if I knew she wasn’t loyal to me.  SMH.  In a way what you’re doing, by letting your girl fuck other dudes, is what an insecure beta would do.

    No it’s not shocking. You and the rest of 95% of men. Have fun babysitting them, while we fuck them for you. That is if you think they belong to you.

  29. If she refuses sex, then were done, I’m moving on.

    But why put yourself in that position in the first place? It’s such a waste. If she’s not in the mood to fuck you, just fuck someone else.

    Yes, if I’m with a chick, I think I should be the only one giving her dick.  Shocking I knw.

    Not shocking. Just pathetic. And needy.

    Is your ego truly so fragile that you can’t handle your precious angel taking my dick in her ass? What’s the big deal?

    If she’s not loyal,

    Loyal? Oh brother… You are so brainwashed. There’s a huge difference between loyalty and monogamy.

    the best we can be is fuck buddies.

    Why? Why not develop an emotional connection as well?

    But you’re right, I’m just insecure cause I would kick her ass to the curb if I knew she wasn’t loyal to me.

    Correct. Insecure, needy, and fragile.

    In a way what you’re doing, by letting your girl fuck other dudes, is what an insecure beta would do.

    Huh? Allowing my girlfriend to fuck other dudes is……..insecure? Um……I’m pretty sure that it’s the very definition of secure! Insecure would be crying about it like a little bitch and “kicking her to the curb.” That’s not me!

    I wouldn’t say I’m not attracted to the women, I just see sex differently than you and Black Dragon.  For example, if there were two girls, one was a 7, and the other was a 10.  The 7 is totally into me, we have great chemisty, the sex is great etc.  The 10 is more fake, we don’t have the same outlook on life, and the sexual chemistry isn’t there.  If were fucking, its not from genuine attraction, but more of a transactional deal, where she give me sex, and I provide a nice life for her.  I’m taking the 7 everytime.

    That means that we both see sex the identical way. How is that different?

    I don’t tolerate prostitution any more than you do. She has to be genuinely attracted to me, or I’m not interested. What does that have to do with what we’re talking about?

    I see a lot of older men dating younger women, and I’m sure if he didn’t have money, she wouldn’t be fucking him.

    Agreed. And that’s pathetic.

    I have no interest in transactional intimacy.

    Neither do I.

    How the fuck did we get on the topic of prostitution? I thought we were talking about non-monogamy!

     My point is that if you’re with a girl, and you feel the need to fuck other women, then just breakup.

    But I don’t want to break up because I love her. And I feel the need to fuck her also! And have kids with her.

    That’s great, be fuck buddies.

    Why should I limit myself like that?

    just saying for most men, we want loyalty.

    I receive emotional loyalty from my girl, which is way more powerful than laboring under the delusion that her body is my private property.

    If we don’t get it, then move on, next her.

    That’s neediness. There is no reason to hoard a woman’s body like that.

    But most men don’t know how to spot the difference between good women and a chick who will eventually cheat.  Too many back in the day Black Dragons out there, who are just clueless.

    Every woman will eventually cheat, unless she’s a low sex drive prude, in which case, the price is too high. I want a high sex drive woman, and the price is non-monogamy. So be it.

    You’d be shocked how many married and taken women I fucked, whom their husbands swear are “good women” who would never do that. It’s a purity fantasy.

    But if your sex drive dictates variety, then that’s great for you.  Do what you need I guess.

    I will not give any one woman a monopoly over my sex life. Putting all my eggs in one basket would take all of my negotiating power away. In order to keep your power, you must diversify your assets.

    Some guys would rather have or at least try to have a genuine loyal relationship, where we don’t need to fuck anybody else.  Nothing is guaranteed, but its worth striving for at least.

    Why? You keep using the word “loyal.” It makes no sense in this context. Who’s more loyal? The woman who fucks other men for fun, but is in love with you? Or the woman who is sexually monogamous, but can’t stand you and wishes you were dead so she can collect the life insurance money?

     

     

  30. Let’s not demonize the idea of monogamy, ok?

    I absolutely will demonize the idea of monogamy. And spit on it. And ridicule it. And beat it into the dust of the earth. It’s a despicably laughable concept that absolutely deserves to be demonized!

    We all know its far from perfect, but no matter how flawed it is, it’s not a hell on Earth you are describing.

    Yes it is!

    I think Deep Thoughts has got the point too.

    How so?

    Both systems have some really shitty sides to them. Let’s stay objective.

    What is the shitty side of non-monogamy?

     

     

  31. Let’s not demonize the idea of monogamy, ok? We all know its far from perfect, but no matter how flawed it is, it’s not a hell on Earth you are describing.

    It is very bad if you compare. After 6 months or a year the drama increases 10 fold. Whether you are an alpha 1.0 or beta the drama is a headache and childish if you are looking at it from the other side. You are caught into a net of drama without escape.

    There is no actual freedom in most situations because whatever decision you make it goes through the woman. And in most cases if she disagrees you’ll back off.

    Your finances in most situations are fucked up due to monogamy. That’s even before the divorce. She sucks up your finances so rapidly you are left working paying the bills and her needs.

    Not to mention the sex frequency that decreases as the time passes by FAST.

    And many many more.

    Thankfully I had to live through few short term mono relationships and thinking about it I don’t know how men cope with it for more than 3 years.

    In comparison there is minimal drama, not worthy of a mention. You are spending for them almost nothing in comparison(in fact they do spend for you). Sex frequency stays the same. You can fuck whoever you want and do whatever you want without having to give a report(unless she is an OLTR then you have to give something). They leave? Yes, just like monogamy. The difference is that in monogamy if she’ll stay in your life she’ll stay only as a headache and nothing more. In non mono they’ll return when they see their Disney dreams are shuttered once more and the only way to escape this, is to go to the rare person who gave them freedom and good sex.

    Moreover in mono you have no immediate backups. When she’ll kick your ass out and you are 35+, in most situations men are left wondering what to do with their lives and how they will find a new love, the beta mode, wasting years of sexless life.

    Still think monogamy is somehow a good option? Please share the pluses. Pair bonding? I get that from the high MLTRs and I don’t see much difference in that regard, even if I see them once a week. I have better things to do in my week and one day to relax and have fun with them is perfect.

  32. @Jack

    How so? What is the shitty side of non-monogamy?

    Blackdragon himself admits that his system has drawbacks, like the fact that your girl is allowed to fuck other guys, the concept still not being completely socially-acceptable and many of them simply craving Disney paradise, leaving you for betas and monogamy-guys.

    I would personally add the need to deal with more than one woman. I currently have two (mltr+fb), and even at 28 I find it quite tough and sometimes draining – both time and energy-wise. I value my personal time and am an introvert, so spending 2 days a week (or even once every two weeks, as I don’t always see my fb every week) on them is a lot. Besides, we agreed I won’t have sex with fb at my place, and going to hers is a bit of a drag and the whole thing lacks intimacy by nature. Sometimes, I really feel like I have an open relationship just for the sake of having an open relationship. It’s like a defense mechanism that Deep Thoughts has described, some kind of insecurity, which I think it totally possible. We have all had failed monogamous relationship and remember how shitty it felt when the whole thing went crashing down. So we cushion ourselves with all these fuck buddies, back-ups, etc. at the fear of getting dumped/cheated on.

    I like spending time with them, and I love sex, but I think a part of monogamy’s appeal is that you just have one girl to deal with. I agree with you that it doesn’t work long-term, but I think it has its own pluses too.

  33. Blackdragon himself admits that his system has drawbacks, like the fact that your girl is allowed to fuck other guys, the concept still not being completely socially-acceptable and many of them simply craving Disney paradise, leaving you for betas and monogamy-guys.

    All three of these are pure SP in that there’s nothing wrong with the items listed from a rational standpoint, yet we are taught to be repulsed by those.

    Rationally, women you’re dating are adult humans. They do have the right to do whatever they want with any other adult humans, and they don’t have the obligation to please your relatives.

    As an analogy, consider friendships. Would you say you “allow” your friends to have friends of their own? If you befriend a good person who is a positive influence on you yet is socially unacceptable (by being black, or a Jew, or whatever), would you value your friend over the hypocrites? When your friends leave town, do you cling to them or do you wish them well?

    It’s natural to behave that way towards friends, and it’s natural to treat women the same, it’s the SP that’s unnatural.

    spending 2 days a week on them is a lot

    And monogamy would help this how?

    I have a feeling you’re not managing the relationships correctly, allowing at least one of the women too much control. BD, for example, only permits OLTRs and not MLTRs to negotiate rules of any kind.

    We have all had failed monogamous relationship and remember how shitty it felt when the whole thing went crashing down. So we cushion ourselves with all these fuck buddies, back-ups, etc. at the fear of getting dumped/cheated on.

    Well yes, we most definitely cushion ourselves whenever there’s significant risk of something we wouldn’t otherwise like!

    I sometimes think BD should change the tagline of the blog to “NO MORE BREAKUPS!!!1111!” in huge letters. That’s a selling point of such enormous value that it can’t be overemphasized.

  34. @Anon

    And monogamy would help this how?
    I have a feeling you’re not managing the relationships correctly, allowing at least one of the women too much control. BD, for example, only permits OLTRs and not MLTRs to negotiate rules of any kind.

    If I just had one girl, I would only give away 1 day a week.

    Of course, I am doing some things wrong, I don’t deny it. You live, you learn. Always keep self-improving.

  35. BD, do you have any opinion on how old is too old to start having kids? I’m 51 and I don’t rule out the possibility but all else being equal, do you think it’s a good idea?

  36. Let’s not demonize the idea of monogamy, ok? […] Both systems have some really shitty sides to them. Let’s stay objective.

    Being objective doesn’t mean always taking the middle stance between any two POVs. They can both have drawbacks while one demonstrably sucks way more than the other.

  37. Careful. Check your state laws on sperm banks. You might get hit with 29 separate child support orders within 10-15 years. Good luck.

    Nah. The court cases where that happened, the donor father did not act like an anonymous donor; i.e., he had an existing relationship with the mother, he did not use a sperm bank, he had contact with (and took an interest in) the child while it was growing up, etc.

  38. I think I’ve sort of figured out a way for people to determine if they truly wish to pursue parenthood:

    2. Sign up for short-term fostering. This should give you a taste of parenthood without the making the permanent decision. Even if your application gets rejected,the screening process may open your eyes and learn all kinds of things about yourself and what parenthood really is all about.

    First of all, kids in foster care programs are fucked up by definition (because their parents were so bad that the government took them away from their parents), and you are going to get a false impression of what parenting is like if you “practice” on some kid who has been turned into a monster by his abusive parents.

    Secondly, even if the kid isn’t fucked up, there is a world of difference between your kids and someone else’s kid. I detest other people’s kids. Even kids who are related to me – i.e., nieces and nephews – irritate me and I have no patience with them. If I “practiced” taking care of them, my conclusion would be “fuck this shit, I’m not having kids”. But this would be a false conclusion! I love my own kids, I love taking care of them, I have lots of patience for them. I realize, in fact, they’re not really qualitatively much different or better than my nieces and nephews, it still matters that they’re mine.

    In short, there is really no substitute for the real thing when it comes to finding out what it’s like to be a parent.

  39. be careful about condom-less sex in foreign countries.  i have lawyers as clients and friends.  the law applies where you live.  that cute little Thai girl or the Eastern European slut or the Philippine peasant can get on a plane to your country and state and has the same rights to the court system as a citizen in many Anglo countries.  if she can establish paternity in the same manner as a citizen of your state, you will be forced to support the child even if she raises it in her native country.  her lawyer here in the USA will be happy to file against you if you forget to mail payment to her in her country.  worse yet is that she can sue to have your child raised in America which includes her living expenses here.  and now that the little bastard is born in the USA, it is even easier to attach your wages and assets.  she can sue to have the child raised according to the standards of where you live.

    play games, get prizes.  snip it or bag it; there is no easy out in this modern world.

  40. I value my personal time and am an introvert, so spending 2 days a week (or even once every two weeks, as I don’t always see my fb every week) on them is a lot.

    So we cushion ourselves with all these fuck buddies, back-ups, etc. at the fear of getting dumped/cheated on.

    I like spending time with them, and I love sex, but I think a part of monogamy’s appeal is that you just have one girl to deal with. I agree with you that it doesn’t work long-term, but I think it has its own pluses too.

    Yes I’m seeing the Disney tendencies all over here. You say you despise spending 2 days a week(with 2 different women), yet you love spending every day with a woman in mono relationships? Isn’t it obvious with this sentence that you are contradicting yourself just because you have to defend monogamy?

    As an introvert you should be happy with the current setup. 2 days a week out of 7? With two different women? Without anyone complaining that you see two women at the same time? Heaven compared to monogamy.

    As Anon said you probably don’t deal with this correctly, otherwise you would have understood t that monogamy sucks big time in comparison.

    This is not something you play for few months then go back to monogamy, because you are lazy, not strong enough or whatever the problem is.

    So we cushion ourselves with all these fuck buddies, back-ups, etc. at the fear of getting dumped/cheated on.

    When you buy stocks you go just for one stock and put your money all in? So you say the guy who does this is brave and the one who takes precautions and actually not lose or MAKES money is a pussy?

    There is no fear. It is the most likelihood scenario by far. On top of it after a year or so monogamy is boring, sucks and is a headache. Anyone who says otherwise is not truthful to himself or is a beta and with this miserable setup is happier than ever.

    So we choose happiness and freedom over stupid childish micromanagement of the mono relationships and see the big picture. On top of it we have women in our lives who actually are really attracted to us over time which is the only thing that keeps them for leaving. This, in my opinion is the power that most relationships are missing.

    Of course BDs system has drawbacks but they are not important compared to monogamy’s. They are important if your frame is off.

  41. @Heh

    While you’re right that there’s nothing that will truly recreate the magic of parenthood other than the real thing itself,I do believe my suggestions minimizes the chances that you end up regretting your decision,since you’ll already be aware(not just “knowing” but because you’ve experienced them)of all the hard work and rigor of that comes with parenthood.

    Take a look at these:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/regret

    As much as possible,we’d want to avoid ending up as one of those people. I’m afraid the magic doesn’t happen for everyone. Sure,there’s the option of sending your baby to adoption should you find that the magic “just isn’t there.” but from an ethical/moral standpoint,I think that’s only a valid option for “accidents.” to impregnate someone with the plan of sending the baby to adoption if you find that the magic isn’t there…that would be unethical.

    Its not impossible to be able to tame or even earn the affection/respect of an unruly foster child. in fact,if you can manage to pull that off(without overly relying on corporal punishment),I’d think you’d be prepared as ever for the real thing. Though whether or not this level of skill/charm would be necessary is up to question,I admit.

  42. @hey hey

    You say you despise spending 2 days a week(with 2 different women), yet you love spending every day with a woman in mono relationships?

    No, I didn’t say that. I said I spend 1 day a week with her and 1 day a week (not even every week) with another girl. And yes, 2 days out of 7 is a lot for me. I’ve got shit to do.

    When you buy stocks you go just for one stock and put your money all in? So you say the guy who does this is brave and the one who takes precautions and actually not lose or MAKES money is a pussy?

    I get your point, but women are not stocks, are they? All I’m saying is that Jack debated the nature of insecurities with Deep Thoughts, stating that if you choose to be in open relationships and let other guys fuck your girl, it is the opposite to being insecure – that you are so secure you don’t give a shit if someone fucks her. My argument is that it is actually the insecurities that drive us to opening our relationships up and letting some dude fuck our girl in the first place. We are so certain the “inevitable” cheating will happen, we cushion ourselves with fuck budies and the thought that monogamy doesn’t work anyway and it is our “decision” to let her fuck other guys. It is almost self-sabotage and consequent denial of what we really want (them not fucking other guys. But we are so afraid of not controlling the situation and being betrayed, we just jump ahead and scream that monogamy never works and open our relationships, even if we don’t want it). You understand what I mean?

  43. I feel like many of us here secretly resent and envy the Guy #2 types. Instead of hating on him and saying he can only get such and such types of chicks, BLAH, BLAH,BLAH..

    I’ve known plenty of guys like that and hell, for a season I have been like that as well. But like BD says its not gonna lead to long term happiness or stability. I mean for about a decade or so I was working at a lame retail job living in a college town and having a go of it. Had plenty of access to all kinds of good looking college chicks. But it wasn’t leading me anywhere.

    So its not that we resent them its more of a sympathetic contempt kind of thing. Dislike them but feel bad for them at the same time kinda deal.

  44. Blackdragon can We PLEASE have a post about guy #2.

    No post needed. He was confident, had strong PUA/game skills, and put in shitloads of numbers via constant social circle game. That’s it, no secret, no special sauce… just doing what I’ve been saying to do for almost a decade. Confidence, dating skills, and putting in the numbers works, regardless of your SMV. (Yes, it’s harder to get laid when your SMV is low, but you can still do it.)

    Again I will say that most of the girls he fucked were ugly or average, but he did fuck a few girls most of the men posting here would consider very cute.

    If she refuses sex, then were done, I’m moving on.

    That’s fine, as long as you understand that you are then relegated to live the rest of your life in a state of serial monogamy, one relatively brief (under 3 years) monogamous relationship after another, over and over again, until die or get too old.

    If that’s not what you want, you need to adopt my systems. If that’s is what you really want, that’s fine and I respect your decision. It would never work for me because I like to be happy; I already talked about what I think of the serial monogamy lifestyle here.

    I’m sure if he didn’t have money, she wouldn’t be fucking him

    For normal men, yes, but for my system, no. I have carried on multi-year long relationships with women 15 and 20 years younger than me without spending money on them (beyond the occasional dinner or Taco Bell run).

    I agree with Blackdragon that it doesn’t work long-term, but I think Deep Thoughts has got the point too.

    Incorrect. He’s not making a point or an argument, he’s just stating an emotional preference. His “point” is “I don’t like that,” which is the most common “point” pro-monogamy men make. There is no rationality, logic, objectivity, science, or data in anything he’s saying.

    He just “doesn’t like it,” which is not an argument; it’s just emotion and stubbornness.

    Take Parenting training programs from a reliable source.

    Excellent idea. I agree.

    Blackdragon himself admits that his system has drawbacks, like the fact that your girl is allowed to fuck other guys, the concept still not being completely socially-acceptable and many of them simply craving Disney paradise, leaving you for betas and monogamy-guys.

    The first two based purely in false Societal Programming, the third item not very relevant since the vast majority of these women come back to you.

    Sometimes, I really feel like I have an open relationship just for the sake of having an open relationship.

    That is stupid beyond belief. If doing something makes you unhappy, stop doing it immediately. Do you seriously think I would do nonmonogamy when I didn’t like it, just because some blogger said I should? Do what makes you the most happy (or the least unhappy if you have a more touchy personality type).

    I value my personal time and am an introvert, so spending 2 days a week (or even once every two weeks, as I don’t always see my fb every week) on them is a lot.

    Dude! This frequency would increase with monogamy!!!

    You’re not viewing this clearly at all.

    If I just had one girl, I would only give away 1 day a week.

    INCORRECT! A monogamous woman would not tolerate 1 day a week forever. Betaization would skyrocket and she would start demanding to see you more often. If you don’t believe me, then try it, seriously, and watch what happens.

    And if your answer is that you would just dump her and find a new one, read above what I said about serial monogamy.

  45. BD, do you have any opinion on how old is too old to start having kids? I’m 51 and I don’t rule out the possibility but all else being equal, do you think it’s a good idea?

    I don’t think having kids is a “good idea” at any age for men who desire long-term consistent happiness and freedom as their top priory. But that aside, I think 51 is perfectly fine to have kid if it’s something you want, and your health is good, and you’ve got plenty of money/income.

    I’ve said many times that, if you’re going to have kids, I’d rather see you have kids at age 51 than at age 25. That’s just stupid all around.

    The biggest problem is men having kids when too young, not when too old. Arnold didn’t have kids until he was in his 40’s. Jim Rogers didn’t have kids until his 60’s. I’d far rather live like those men than the guy who has kids at 25 or 30.

    Being objective doesn’t mean always taking the middle stance between any two POVs.

    Yeah, he’s not being objective, just based on his quotes above.

    be careful about condom-less sex in foreign countries.  i have lawyers as clients and friends.  the law applies where you live.  that cute little Thai girl or the Eastern European slut or the Philippine peasant can get on a plane to your country and state and has the same rights to the court system as a citizen in many Anglo countries.

    Interesting. I wasn’t aware of this.

  46. No, I didn’t say that. I said I spend 1 day a week with her and 1 day a week (not even every week) with another girl.

    Yes that’s what I meant. But you prefer spending time with one woman everyday in mono relationship? You don’t have shit to do when she’ll be busting your balls constantly?

    Also you have shit to do 7 days a week, that you don’t have one day to fully sacrifice for a woman you like/love and another few hours in every 10-14 days for another woman that you love fucking?

    But it’s ok if you had a woman busting your balls everyday? You see where is the contradiction?

    I get your point, but women are not stocks, are they?

    No but the risk factor is there. If you want to destroy your life, you’ll succumb and go with the flow.

    My argument is that it is actually the insecurities that drive us to opening our relationships up and letting some dude fuck our girl in the first place.

    Yes and we are far far better off without them. That’s why we shed them off. Also we don’t let some dude fuck the girl. She is not our girl. She does not belong to us. She can do whatever the hell she wants when she is not with us.

    And frankly if you have a high end MLTR and she does this, she’ll likely leave you already. Didn’t have that problem up to now. Women react the same way in this as in monogamy. They find some beta who orbits them and when she’s angry at you she’ll vanish, probably will have some fuck session with the beta expecting from you to react in her vanishing. When she doesn’t get her way she’ll go with the flow experience some NRE, then she’ll hate herself for leaving you and the beta who is boring and she’ll find a way to reach you.

    So Deep Thoughts, has no idea what he is talking about. He has completely different scenario about non monogamy in his mind which is far from the truth.

    It is almost self-sabotage and consequent denial of what we really want (them not fucking other guys.

    As I’ve said, I don’t give a fuck what a woman does when she is not with me(I’m not talking about OLTR here), I have better shit to do. I don’t have to let them of anything. I’m not their dad to get my permission. There are only two scenarios in my mind when they are not with me. Meet or no meet. If no meet with obvious avoidance, she gets another pitch another day, if not with obvious avoidance, then I let go. Then I can play with other women more. When she returns(if I have space), we resume as nothing happened. She gets much more hornier than before, because she knows I’m rock solid with this and not playing games.

    I didn’t have a woman who was an MLTR and had a serious relationship with another guy. Obviously if she wants to stay with me, she’ll become a FB in this scenario. So as you can see everything works out just fine. Just because they have the freedom doesn’t mean they push for it.

    And yes long term monogamy doesn’t work: a) Misery, b) Cheating c) low sex drive boring people d) divorce. Take your pick.

  47. Maldek, I’m very interested in your expertise on investments in the third world. Do you have a profile on the Alpha 2.0 Community so I can get in touch with you?

  48. “I get your point, but women are not stocks, are they? All I’m saying is that Jack debated the nature of insecurities with Deep Thoughts, stating that if you choose to be in open relationships and let other guys fuck your girl, it is the opposite to being insecure – that you are so secure you don’t give a shit if someone fucks her. My argument is that it is actually the insecurities that drive us to opening our relationships up and letting some dude fuck our girl in the first place. We are so certain the “inevitable” cheating will happen, we cushion ourselves with fuck budies and the thought that monogamy doesn’t work anyway and it is our “decision” to let her fuck other guys. It is almost self-sabotage and consequent denial of what we really want (them not fucking other guys. But we are so afraid of not controlling the situation and being betrayed, we just jump ahead and scream that monogamy never works and open our relationships, even if we don’t want it). You understand what I mean?”

    Well said Smile, couldn’t have said it better myself.  Its the negative inevitable impeding doom thoughts of being in a monogamous relationship, that these low self esteem men have going on.  In a way, they can’t lose, but they also can’t win, cause they aren’t really in the game.  They just think they are.

    I’m not claiming to be an expert in female psycology, but I do know how they tick more than the average men today.  If you had to choose, between love and respect, choose respect. (Chris Christy was right).  Love is fleeting, not consistent, and basically doesn’t exist in reality.  Respect will take you farther with women and in life.  A women will never respect a man, who allows her to fuck other men, while being in a serious relationship with her.  Its biologically not possible IMO.  She would respect a guy who fucks other women, more than a guy who allows her to get away with such nonsence.  But but but, that’s hypocritical.  If the man can fuck other women, why can’t the women fuck other men??  Cause we aint equal ya bitch.   First a male is designed from birth to try to fuck as many bitches ass possible.  Second, a man cant bring back to his next the offspiring of another mate.  Only a women can do that.  Were wired differently, so call me a hypocrite all you want, its not me, its biology.  She knows this too deep down, and the best you can do when that happens is become fuck buddies.  Once a line gets crossed, there is not turning back, you’ve become beta.

    Your self respect as man is the most important thing you have.  More important than fucking big boobed blond chicks, more than how much income you have, more than your fame, or looks.  Without it, you have nothing.

     

     

  49. But but but, that’s hypocritical.  If the man can fuck other women, why can’t the women fuck other men??  Cause we aint equal ya bitch.

    Ah, monogamy. That mindset says it all, folks. Good luck being happy with that.

  50. Blackdragon himself admits that his system has drawbacks, like the fact that your girl is allowed to fuck other guys,

    I don’t understand. Please explain why her fucking other guys is a “drawback.”

    For me, it’s a huge plus. I want my woman fucking other men. Being her only source of sex? I sure as hell don’t want that responsibility. Every time she’s horny, she has to call me or be frustrated? Hell no! I won’t always be there, and she shouldn’t have to masturbate.

    Her sexual needs should be satisfied any time she wants them satisfied, not only when I’m available. That would just be cruel. I certainly wouldn’t want to have sex only when my girlfriend is available. Too frustrating.

    Besides, if I’m her only source of sex, she will get needy and annoying, especially if I’m fucking other women.

    Also, I want my woman to have a high sex drive. If she actually agrees to sleep with only me and no one else, she’s either full of shit, or her sex drive isn’t high enough for my liking. Sleeping with other men shows me that she’s a keeper, because I want women who enjoy sex a lot, not a woman who would be sexually satisfied with just one man. Yuck!

    the concept still not being completely socially-acceptable

    Who gives a flying fuck what is or is not socially acceptable? Dude, you need to unplug from that matrix! You shouldn’t be concerned about the thoughts of the sheep!

    and many of them simply craving Disney paradise, leaving you for betas and monogamy-guys.

    That’s why you niche yourself to the types of women like my girl, who have poly in their blood. Or, just follow BD’s method. They’ll leave you for monogamous betas and then they’ll come back to you. In the meantime, enjoy your rotation of other women while she’s off playing Disney candy land with Mr. Boring Beta or Mr. Controlling Alpha 1.0. Where’s the drawback?

    I would personally add the need to deal with more than one woman. I currently have two (mltr+fb), and even at 28 I find it quite tough and sometimes draining – both time and energy-wise.

    And a monogamous girlfriend would see you…..less?

    I value my personal time and am an introvert, so spending 2 days a week (or even once every two weeks, as I don’t always see my fb every week) on them is a lot.

    And if you only had one, she would insist on far more.

    Besides, we agreed I won’t have sex with fb at my place,

    What????

    Do you live with her? If so, she’s an OLTR, not an MLTR. If not, what right does the bitch have to tell you what you can and cannot do in your own home??? What the fuck?

    and going to hers is a bit of a drag and the whole thing lacks intimacy by nature.

    Then invite any woman you want to your place!

    We have all had failed monogamous relationship and remember how shitty it felt when the whole thing went crashing down. So we cushion ourselves with all these fuck buddies, back-ups, etc. at the fear of getting dumped/cheated on.

    That’s just called being smart, not insecure. You can be the most secure man in the world, but that won’t stop your monogamous girlfriend from cheating on you, unless she’s low sex drive, in which case, I don’t want her. High sex drive women cheat. If she doesn’t, there’s something wrong with her levels of lust that just turns me off!

    I’m not attracted to women who don’t cheat! That’s why I need an open relationship if I’m ever going to have love, happiness, or children in my life!

    So, for me, it’s not insecurity. It’s what I want them to do, or I can’t get turned on! And it’s not because I want to watch. It’s because it all comes with the package of being a sexually open minded woman!

    Open minded women (and men) don’t stick to just one sex partner. That’s boring. They want things like threesomes and other stuff. They want sexual thrills. A woman like that will never be monogamous. If she is, then she’s not that kind of adventurous woman, which means, she turns me off!

    I like spending time with them, and I love sex, but I think a part of monogamy’s appeal is that you just have one girl to deal with.

    So, no threesomes. No partner switching. No adventures with married men she can tell me about during sex. Ew. Not for me man! I need sexual excitement, and I need her to need it too!

     

  51. @Jack

    Her sexual needs should be satisfied any time she wants them satisfied, not only when I’m available. That would just be cruel. I certainly wouldn’t want to have sex only when my girlfriend is available. Too frustrating.

    Are you a primate? Or 15? Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy sex too, but this is just a ridiculous statement. You can date five chicks at the same time, but if you are in the middle of a four hour business meeting and suddenly get horny, then what? You gonna call one of your girls to race to the office and bang her in the bathroom? I would imagine you (and her) have at least somewhat mastered a precious skill of self-control by now.

    For me, it’s a huge plus. I want my woman fucking other men. 

    I’m not attracted to women who don’t cheat!

    We are very different, my friend. I respect your opinion (to each their own, hey) but I don’t think we will ever come to an agreement on that matter.

  52.  A women will never respect a man, who allows her to fuck other men, while being in a serious relationship with her.  

    “Allows?”

    lol

    “Serious relationship?”

    lol

    Still in the prison, this one.

  53. I get your point, but women are not stocks, are they?

    Same principle.

    My argument is that it is actually the insecurities that drive us to opening our relationships up and letting some dude fuck our girl in the first place. We are so certain the “inevitable” cheating will happen, we cushion ourselves with fuck budies and the thought that monogamy doesn’t work anyway and it is our “decision” to let her fuck other guys.

    I’ve always wanted my women to fuck other guys. But back when I was still brainwashed, I thought monogamy was the only way to have a serious relationship. So I agreed to the monogamous contract. When my monogamous girlfriends cheated on me (which most of them did), I would feel disrespected because they violated the contract (even though I was cheating on them as well).

    And, of course, no woman would ever respect, or be sexually turned on by, a man who forgives cheating (upon her getting caught), so I had no choice but to break up with these women to maintain my own dignity. Very beautiful relationships wasted. Why? Because of a bullshit monogamy contract.

    If I would have told her that it’s okay and I don’t care, she wouldn’t have been attracted to me anymore and I would have been pegged as a beta (because she lied to me and disrespected me). So I had no choice but to trash the whole thing! Thanks monogamy!

    And, of course, the presence of the monogamy agreement motivates other lies from the woman that has to do with her cheating (lying about paternity, etc…), and all because of an exclusivity agreement that is, at its core, childish!

    Even if you’re not attracted to promiscuous women like I am, why waste a good thing? If she fucks a random guy because she’s horny during a girls’ night out, that’s okay! It’s not worth trashing the entire relationship, especially if you’re both in love with each other!

    Monogamy ruins everything beautiful!

    I was so in love with my last monogamous girl and breaking up with her (because she cheated on me with two men and then tried to pass a baby off as mine) was one of the hardest things I ever had to do. Without monogamy, her lies, deceptions, and manipulations wouldn’t have been necessary, she wouldn’t have gotten pregnant by another man irresponsibly, and her and I would probably still be together today, deeply in love!

    What a fucking waste, all because of goddamn monogamy!

    Then again, without breaking up with her, I wouldn’t have met my wonderful current poly girlfriend, so there’s that!

    It is almost self-sabotage and consequent denial of what we really want (them not fucking other guys. But we are so afraid of not controlling the situation and being betrayed, we just jump ahead and scream that monogamy never works and open our relationships, even if we don’t want it).

    Except I want my serious girlfriend banging other dudes and would be turned off by her if she didn’t, because I need a high sex drive woman who’s too horny for one man!

    But, be that as it may, let’s take your premise seriously: Many guys don’t want their women fucking other dudes, so they will allow it to happen on their terms (in an open relationship) in order to avoid betrayal, lying, hiding, and disloyalty on her part, thus allowing a deeply loving relationship to continue, regardless of whether or not she gets horny from time to time and bangs her brother’s best friend!

    Isn’t that genius? There will be no betrayal because there, by definition, can’t be. If she’s monogamous to him, great! If not, the two of you are still deeply in love and making it work!

    Non-monogamy protects against unnecessary waste! Unnecessary heartbreak. And unnecessary deception. Plus, it makes your relationship stronger, as the trust factor increases exponentially, as distinguished from monogamous relationships that are so fragile that they wouldn’t even survive sleeping with even one other person one time! Pathetic!

    Shit, I’ve known monogamous couples where a simple threesome with one other girl tore apart the entire relationship! True love should be stronger than that!

    Non-monogamy protects love from being unnecessarily destroyed by trivialities!

    Plus, it allows both of you to have way more fun without hiding it! Win/win

     

     

  54. Its the negative inevitable impeding doom thoughts of being in a monogamous relationship, that these low self esteem men have going on.

    How is that low self esteem? It’s just a recognition of modern day reality. Listen to Tom Leykis once in a while. His female callers will disillusion you on the female purity subject. What would be an example of high self esteem? The belief in female sexual purity?

    First of all, you’re assuming that a serious girlfriend having casual sex with another man is “negative.” I beg to differ.

    Second of all, even if it is negative, you’re assuming that monogamy works and that your angel of purity won’t cheat. Was she a virgin when you met her? Are you even turned on by virgins? Is she a low sex drive prude? If not, I can’t picture her not cheating on you.

    Women today are way too free not to cheat. And I’ve been with so many married and taken women that it is impossible for me to believe that everyone isn’t doing it, unless they have low sex drives, and therefore, are the types of conservative girls that just don’t do it for me.

    In a way, they can’t lose,

    Thank you! I rest my case!

    but they also can’t win, cause they aren’t really in the game.  They just think they are.

    I don’t get this. What exactly should I be winning? A woman with a sex drive so low she’ll never have a threesome with me? A woman with a sex drive so low that she can sleep with only me and not get bored? How is that satisfying?

    Also, even if you could find a woman who would never cheat on you, despite having a high sex drive and being wild and exciting (not likely), how would you ever be able to confirm that she never had sex with anyone but you while you were together? Would you follow her around everywhere she goes? If not, how would you ever know? Women are EXTREMELY discreet and very clever. I know because I’ve slept with many of them.

    So the most you can ever “win” is the speculation that she never cheated on you. Why is speculation considered “winning?”

    I’ve had married women in my bed who told me that they planned their cheating months in advance, beginning with inventing fictional stories to tell the husband about non-existent men hitting on them and how they said no because “I’m married,” only to deepen the husband’s trust and throw off his suspicion before starting to actually cheat (seven months later, after all the plausible deniability was put in place)!

    Does your speculation that she never cheated mean so much to you? Do you have that much faith in female sexual purity?

    I’m not claiming to be an expert in female psycology,

    That’s a relief, because you’re clearly not.

    but I do know how they tick more than the average men today.

    Then you should know that they all either cheat, are poly/open, or have low sex drives.

    A women will never respect a man, who allows her to fuck other men, while being in a serious relationship with her.  Its biologically not possible IMO.

    Oh. My. God!

    I…….have no words!

    So….my girlfriend doesn’t respect me? Women in the poly community, or in open marriages/relationships have no respect for their primaries?

    Dude, you are so clueless about the reality on the ground! LOL! It’s mindboggling. I’m willing to bet that whatever monogamous girlfriends that you had, whom you assumed were angels of purity, cheated on you more than once and you never found out.

    A woman can’t respect a man who allows her to cheat if she gets caught, that’s true. But that’s why you open up the relationship – so she won’t think you’re a pathetic beta, because the both of you sleeping with other people is precisely your intentional arrangement!

    She would respect a guy who fucks other women, more than a guy who allows her to get away with such nonsence.

    Actually, in my experience, many mainstream women hate it when you tell them that in this open relationship they may have sex with other men as well, because it de-pedestalizes them. It sends the message that their boyfriends don’t see them as rare diamonds that should be guarded, thus taking away all of the woman’s power to manipulate the man via jealously plotlines, threats of cheating, etc…

    The woman knows that she is replaceable and not a princess, which pisses them off to no end, but makes them hyper-attracted to you at the same time!

    By contrast, if you’re monogamous and she’s cheating, while knowing that you know and that you’re allowing her to get away with it, I agree. A woman can’t respect a man as castrated as that! Solution: Don’t be monogamous, or if she’s cheating, don’t let her know that you know.

    But but but, that’s hypocritical.  If the man can fuck other women, why can’t the women fuck other men??  Cause we aint equal ya bitch.

    Oh boy! LOL!

    First a male is designed from birth to try to fuck as many bitches ass possible.

    Read Sperm Wars. Sperm are designed to fight with each other inside the woman’s vagina so that the best can win, after she fucks a ton.

    Second, a man cant bring back to his next the offspiring of another mate.  Only a women can do that.

    Paternity tests!

    Were wired differently, so call me a hypocrite all you want, its not me, its biology.  She knows this too deep down, and the best you can do when that happens is become fuck buddies.  Once a line gets crossed, there is not turning back, you’ve become beta.

    A part of me agrees that very conservative women do indeed think in this way. These are the same types of women who enjoy rape role playing in bed (to test the man’s primal, and therefore, protective instincts), instigate physical fights between their boyfriends and other men after flirting with those men (just to see if her boyfriend still cares, can still be controlled, and to make sure that she “still got it”), and, at the most extreme side, marry serial killers!

    Those types of women who crave the territoriality of alpha 1.0s do exist. They are very old fashioned, primitive, and (usually) gold digging women. And I want nothing to do with them!

    Your self respect as man is the most important thing you have.  More important than fucking big boobed blond chicks, more than how much income you have, more than your fame, or looks.  Without it, you have nothing.

    Agreed. That’s why I refuse to be a woman’s tool, or indulge the obsolete biological wiring of conservative females.

    That’s also why I will not go monogamous and set up potential betrayal from the liberal women who are my sexual bread and butter!

     

  55. Are you a primate?

    Perhaps. 🙂

    Or 15?

    Ha! I wish! To live through high school again knowing what I now know? Oh man, I would have fucked 80 percent of the girls at school! Their jock boyfriends would never know!

    Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy sex too, but this is just a ridiculous statement.

    No it’s not. Your sex drive is obviously lower than mine!

    You can date five chicks at the same time, but if you are in the middle of a four hour business meeting and suddenly get horny, then what? You gonna call one of your girls to race to the office and bang her in the bathroom?

    Well obviously I don’t get horny when I’m in the middle of working. I meant in my personal life, on my own time, when I actually have time to think about sex and sexual things. Even a serious girlfriend may not always be available when I’m at home with a hard on! So what do I do? Suck it up? Masturbate? Fuck that! I’ll just call a fuck buddy!

    Then again, I have, once or twice (around seven years ago), called a fuck buddy during work hours to fuck me on my lunch break. We got a hotel. No big deal. That’s how I eventually got one of my fuck buddies to introduce me to her female friend who was an IRS agent, whom I ended up fucking behind the back of my final monogamous girlfriend. I couldn’t resist screwing the IRS!

    I would imagine you (and her) have at least somewhat mastered a precious skill of self-control by now.

    Self control is only necessary when it’s necessary. But when it’s unnecessary, it’s overrated!

    You obviously need to control yourself at work, when you’re conducting some type of business, or when you’re on someone else’s time, or a guest on someone else’s property, but when I’m on my own time and have finished my business for the day, I shouldn’t have to control myself. When I get horny, I want sex. If my girlfriend is busy, that’s okay. I’ll call the next one in my phone.

    I shouldn’t have to wait for one specific woman to get my needs met! And my girlfriend shouldn’t have to wait for me either when she starts craving dick!

    We are very different, my friend.

    Yes. My sex drive is indeed very intense! Fortunately, so is my girlfriend’s.

    I respect your opinion (to each their own, hey) but I don’t think we will ever come to an agreement on that matter.

    You’re probably right. I just wanted the readers to see that there is another point of view out there. And that it’s not shameful in any way to be this horny and to develop this type of lifestyle that accommodates said horniness!

     

  56. BD, I’m simply saying being in a relationship with one person is something to strive for, even though its unlikely nowadays.  If you want to fuck other women, then I don’t have any problem with that to a degree.   There are actually a lot of women who like and respect a man enough to where if he cheats on her, its not the end of the relationship, and might even bring even more respect to him from her, in a somewhat fucked up way.  It just doesn’t work both ways.  Trying to have an open relationship does not work for the man, or the female indirectly.  It will backfire on the male in the long run.

    Females get bored with guys who they feel they are above, or easy, or have no emotional foundation, and there are no consequences for the females bad actions toward her man.  They want the man that can cheat at any moments notice, but doesn’t necessarily cheat.   They also need to be put in check.  They get confused and don’t know what to think, when they are allowed a freedom that goes against the mans biology and hers indirectly.   A leader draws the lines on what she can or can’t do.  Its not controlling her, and shes not my personal property.  She has complete freedom to leave and find some cuck.  Its the fact that my life as a man is more important than her right to do whatever she wants, and still maintain a serious relationship with me.  It’s her choice, I don’t force this on her.  She has the right to walk away if she wants.  If she thinks that shit is too 1950’s and were living in a world now were women get to fuck all kinds of men, and men should be ok with that, then she can leave without me caring the slightest.

  57. BD, I’m simply saying being in a relationship with one person is something to strive for, even though its unlikely nowadays.

    I already addressed that in my earlier response to you; if you want to be serial monogamous for the rest of your life, go ahead.

    There are actually a lot of women who like and respect a man enough to where if he cheats on her, its not the end of the relationship, and might even bring even more respect to him from her, in a somewhat fucked up way.

    You’ve repeated that several times already. I’m an Alpha Male 2.0, so I don’t care about a woman’s respect as long as she’s hot and low drama. I realize respect is a big issue for you, since Alpha Male 1.0‘s would rather be respected than happy. I’d rather be happy (and possibly respected too; PF respects me, believe me).

    Trying to have an open relationship does not work for the man, or the female indirectly.  It will backfire on the male in the long run.

    Incorrect. I’ve been doing this for 11 years now and it’s never backfired on me once. But as I already pointed out above, you’ve lost any sense of rationality or objectivity regarding this issue, so you’re not in any place to actually listen to any rational, fact-based counterarguments. Which is fine with me.

    The rest of your comment is the usual Alpha Male 1.0 stuff about respect and control which you’ve already repeated several times, so unless you have anything new (which I doubt), this is my last comment to you about this topic. I wish you the best, though you will never be as happy as me. Not that you care.

  58. I don’t even know why you are trying so hard to convert the nonbelievers here.

    Let them burn in their monogamy hell.

  59. That’s alot of assumptions in that post.  I would say I take the things that make the most sense of the alpha male 1.0 and 2.0, but I’m not afraid to apply new concepts.  It’s not closed minded or stubborn to have an opinion or disagree with some of your views.  I repeat them cause you keep assuming I’m something I’m not, which is a serial monogamous.

  60. I don’t even know why you are trying so hard to convert the nonbelievers here.

    I’m not.

    (Unless you’re talking to Jack.)

  61. BD, I’m in a great relationship with a hot and low drama woman. She always compliments me, buys me gifts, tells me how happy she is with me etc. We have had sex almost every day for the past 4 years. She almost never shit tests me, mainly comfort tests, never nags, is happy and pleasant all the time.  She has a great job, is not dependent on me, and is very supportive of my work and career.

    But…I am 45, she is 34. If you have read any of rollo tomassi’s work, she is in the ‘epiphany’ stage, so I figure she has pegged me as a beta provider, and continued ‘happiness’ will be dependent on fulfilling her imperatives, like marriage, children etc.  Do you think this will, like most LTR‘s or marriages, end up in cheating and divorce? Having been married once I am basically completely gun shy to the idea, so I figure I have to end it.  I hate to be so cynical and pessimistic about it, but is this inevitable, in your opinion?

    I’ve read on Married Red Pill subreddit that women only treat men as well as I am treated if they see them as Alpha/really respect them. However, I am not delusional enough to consider myself an Alpha.  I think women are very capable of playing a strategic long game, and then bailing whenever they’ve exhausted your utility (ps. I bought a copy of your book, reading it at the moment).

  62. @OZVey 

    Diagnosis: severe case of oneties.

    Prescription: GFTOW (go fuck 10 other women)

  63. @BD and everybody interested to give their opinion

    I have a case combining possibly 3. 4. and 5. I wonder what’s your opinion.

     

    Background:

    One woman in Thailand (I consider it a newly developped country, but do you count it as case 5?) has been saying since I know her that she wants to have a baby on her own, she said things like she wants the baby to be hers. If the genitor wants to see it now and then every several months, fine, but she and her familly would be the only ones raising him and she doesn’t want to live with the guy (so that’s kinda one of the case recommended in the unchained man).

    I am childfree and my desire to have children is a 0 to 1 out of 10.

    But sometimes I contemplate the idea to let her have a child from me out of empathy for her situation and love for her, and also for myself as an insurance policy against any potential future regrets. The main thing that blocks me is that I am terrified that she might completely backpedal on her idea and request me to participate in any form with raising the child. But if I was 100% sure she never change her mind about that and if she asked me very directly to impregnate her, I feel I would like to “give” her that.

    I have an ongoing MLTR for about 3 years now with her. She is a
    0 drama, successful corporate sales engineer (she can afford full time nany, case 3.) woman living in Bangkok. She’s 34, I am 36. She considers me a “playboy”. Her only brother died a long time ago so she’s an only child with very good relationship with her parents (I am pretty sure she could hand over the kid to her parents and they would be super glad to rase it, case 4.). With huge amounts of time apart since I am not very often there. For instance I haven’t been in her city since november 2016 and I will be there next novemember, so that’s 2 years.

    She had a marriage before meeting me, and broke up because the guy was too possessive or pressuring. During the 2 years without seeing her she was in a serious relationship with a Malaysian guy and they alreay broke up, same reason. Meanwhile she had some sorts of FwB as far as I understand (it’s quite common in Thailand, they call it “gik”). Basically she can’t really deal with romantic pair bonding, she needs lots of space and time, and is independant. Perhaps more so than me.

  64. sometimes I contemplate the idea to let her have a child from me out of empathy for her situation and love for her, and also for myself as an insurance policy

     

    I would seriously advice against that. Way too many things could go wrong,as you’ve said. Let some other man take that place and take that risk. This is putting aside the fact that a child needs its father. Children raised by single moms…usually don’t turn out too well. I believe BD says this himself in his Unchained Man book.

    I know I’m not BD,but I’m pretty sure he’d say the same thing.

     

  65. @Kevin Velasco

    I’m familiar with this philosophy. I gotta be honest here,I do largely agree with it. Not the entirety of it,but a large part of it I do. Consider me a “Conditional/Situational Antinatalist.”

    I strongly believe that having children shouldn’t be a right,but a privilege. A privilege you earn by proving you have the knowledge,resources and strength of character to raise them properly. Sadly,the vast majority of “parents” out there are totally unfit for the role,and thus the children are often destined to be raised into failures and doomed to a life of 9-5 mediocrity. (if not worse)

    Having kids isn’t just about you anymore,if you can’t or don’t know how to raise your children into good and successful adults,you shouldn’t do it. Not until you develop yourself into the kind of person who can.

    As far as I can tell from his book,BD did an excellent job raising his kids. I’ve always disdained the “time out” punishment because of how the mainstream version of it is so ineffective,but BD’s version actually works. I think the only thing I can criticize is that maybe BD should have had his wife internalize the same philosophy/method or/and take parenting training so that the kids will also develop the same level of respect for her,but hey,he probably wasn’t as knowledgeable back then as today and we all make mistakes.

  66. I don’t think the arguments against having kids make a case that people in general shouldn’t have any or very few. Most people have fucked up lives, perhaps not compared to a couple centuries ago but still pretty unhappy. As distasteful as it sounds the current prosperity is built on a majority of people either having kids because they need them (farmers, etc) or because they’re naïve about how hard it’ll be. BD’s advice is justly directed at a small percentage of men who will truly take those points seriously about how you should only have kids if many difficult conditions are met. You’re not gonna convince a majority to abide by those rules; but if somehow you did, the birth rate would descend so low that the worst “aged population” problems in low fertility countries would suddenly look like a joke; we’d have a MAJOR crisis on our hands.

    If aging is one day cured and people now only die from accidents/murder/suicide, THEN a very low birth rate can be justified because it would prevent population from suddenly climbing into the trillions. With high tech and smart housing/production we can house hundreds of billions, but near zero death rate will eventually screw us, unless birth rate is also throttled. But again, that’ll only be an issue when/if aging is cured (for those who choose to take the procedure of course). Until them, let those misguided souls have kids. Heck even I might cave in to the temptation.

  67. I am childfree and my desire to have children is a 0 to 1 out of 10.

    Then don’t have children. Period.

    But sometimes I contemplate the idea to let her have a child from me out of empathy for her situation and love for her

    Insane.

    and also for myself as an insurance policy against any potential future regrets.

    Not a good enough reason to have kids.

    You’re not gonna convince a majority to abide by those rules; but if somehow you did, the birth rate would descend so low…

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2017/10/02/what-if-everyone-did-that/

  68. @BD: actually my comment was agreeing with you. I was mostly reacting to / thinking over earlier comments, not to the article.

  69. I have seen firsthand how effective #7 can be but it is very high risk. I had some acquaintances in the Vietnamese community. One day I find out one of them had gotten beaten to death! I ask the other acquaintances what happened. They told me that a wife had told her husband that he was the true father of their second born and third born! So the husband and a bunch of his friends ambushed him in a parking lot at night with a baseball bat. After the murder, lots of other husband’s suspicions were raised and the rumour was that he had fathered other children by other wives as well although none of the wives confessed. The gossip was that he was a Casanova who targeted bored married women. I had met him a few times and he was a 7 in SMV maybe. Main thing going for him was that he was decently looking, very high confidence and low inhibition, and seemed to have good money from his business. I did notice him flirting a lot with married women. He was a horndog and would flirt with even 3’s and 4’s. Being at an age where many in my social circle are married guys who have let themselves go and the honeymoon period is over, it’s not hard for me to imagine his success if he targeted women with lower SMV and was exciting/romantic and had a bit of cash to arrange logistics and take a woman out on a nice date. I can answer any questions anyone might have about this.

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