One of the biggest frustrations that men in the modern era have with women is the real or perceived lack of loyalty women seem to have for the men they date or are married to. Blogs and forums all over the internet are full of angry men who are furious that women aren’t loyal. Women dump men. Women don’t respect men. Women cheat on men. Women will be in a long-term serious relationship with you and just suddenly end it, and won’t even seem bothered by it. Women get new boyfriends almost instantly after they dump you. Women reveal personal things about you to their friends and family. And on, and on.

“Why can’t women be loyal?!?!” these men scream.

Are they right? Are women truly not loyal?

As always, I look at the facts to form my opinions and decisions rather than my wants, feelings or Societal Programming. So what do the facts say?

Well, in this case, the angry men seem to be correct. The stats are quite clear. As I’ve discussed and analyzed numerous times, 70-80% of all divorces are initiated by the female, and approximately three-fourths of all girlfriend/boyfriend relationships are ended by the female. On top of that, women also cheat pretty much as much as men do in long-term relationships and marriages. In shorter-term relationships, men tend to cheat more, but that’s only because women tend to dump men and then fuck someone else rather than cheat.

As to the question of how loyal women are in relationships, that’s pretty much clear. Women indeed are not “loyal” in terms of staying with a man they’re with.

Women’s usual argument against this is, “Well, yeah, we dump/divorce guys more, but that’s because guys are assholes! If men weren’t such assholes, we wouldn’t divorce them!!!”

This argument is inherently sexist, and I’ll explain why. The implied argument is that 70-80% of all divorces (the ones initiated by women) are strictly because the husbands are horrible assholes and the wives are innocent victims. That then means women are only responsible for 20-30% of divorces, thus that women are essentially better at being married, nicer during marriages, and that women are better wives than men are husbands.

Anyone who has been reading my material for any length of time knows that is obviously bullshit. As I’ve said many times, and as the data, stats, and science repeatedly show, most women love getting married but women despise being married. Once married and past the three-year mark, women stop having sex, start gaining weight, start getting more bitchy and demanding, and exhibit all sorts of problems in the relationship.

It’s true that men also screw up marriages and relationships. No question about that. For years I have stated here on this very blog that most problems relationships encounter within the first year are overwhelmingly men’s fault, so I’m being objective about this. I’ve also stated at most problems caused in live-in relationships / marriages past the three year-mark tend to be caused by women.

Another argument used by women is that women divorce/leave men because men cheat. I understand this argument and I agree that men who promise monogamy long-term monogamy to a woman (which is astoundingly stupid, but that’s another topic) should do what they promise and not cheat on a woman behind her back.

But wait a minute. If women leaving men is usually the man’s fault, why isn’t a man cheating on a woman usually the woman’s fault? I’m being serious here. Women who use this logic need to apply it both ways. If a man’s wife stops having regular sex with him and gains 50 pounds, and he cheats on her, does the wife bear any responsibility for this? If your answer is no, then you can’t turn around and say that all these divorces women initiate are men’s fault. If your answer is yes (and the answer is yes) then you have to admit that many of these divorce women initiate are because of the woman, at least in part.

That’s the problem with this “men cheat all the time!” complaint. It never includes any context. Every time I see some wife of a politician or celebrity on TV crying about how horrible it is her husband cheated on her, my first question is always the same: “How many times in the last 6 months have you had sex with him? Or do you just give him the usual set of wife excuses every time he tried to have sex with you?” Again, men shouldn’t cheat because cheating is lying, but it’s a perfectly relevant question.

Lastly, women complain that men can’t complain about women being loyal if men cheat all the time. I actually agree with this (notwithstanding the aspect of female fault I just explained). However, women don’t understand that in a man’s world, if a man is a good husband who treats his wife well, takes care of his family, and everyone once in a while bangs a Vegas hooker but always returns to his wife and family, that is considered “loyal.” If the wife finds out about it and instantly divorces the man, destroys the family, takes his kids, and quickly hooks up with a new boyfriend, that is considered “disloyal,” at least in terms of how most men view this.

I’m against the entire concept of monogamy so I disagree with all of this, both the male and female view.  If coupled or married people just stopped acting like fucking children or Puritans from the 17th Century, and stopped promising, demanding, and expecting absolute sexual monogamy at all times, none of this stuff would be a problem in the first place. I’m just clarifying how societally programmed men and women tend to view these things.

What To Do About It

So yes, in terms of male definitions of the word, women are not loyal. That’s the problem. Now let’s talk about solutions.

All of my writing on all topics revolves around the concept of objective reality. That the world is how it really is, regardless of your personal feelings, regardless of what you want, regardless of how you think things should be, and regardless of how you have been told they are. That’s the entire point of one of the most important articles I’ve ever written in my life right here. It’s also the baseline for all of my advice regarding women, business, finances, and overall lifestyle.

Long-term happiness comes from the following realizations:

  • The world is the way it is.
  • The world is not going to change because you want it to.
  • The world is not going to change because you try to change it. This is called external solutions, and they virtually never work, as I explained here.
  • If you proceed in your life based on how you think the world should be rather than how the world is, you’ll encounter massive problems in your future. (This is why men do things like get traditionally married, or vote for politicians with actual expectations they will change things, or expect women to be loyal.)

Fortunately, you have two more options beyond acting on how you think the world should be.

One option is to withdraw from the entire system, and refuse to have sex with women or get into any serious relationships with women at all. This is the path of the MGTOW. Unfortunately, as I’ve explained on this blog several times before, while that is a path to avoid lots of problems, it’s not a path to long-term happiness. The reality (there’s that word again, reality) is that men like women, like sex with women, and most men like the company of one special woman, particularly as they get older. The man who eschews women completely (or relationships with women) is probably better off than the delusional man who constantly gets into high-drama breakups and divorces with women, but he still won’t be long-term happy (unless he is a rare exception to the rule, and those rare exceptions would be fine to take the MGTOW route, but again, these men are the rare exceptions).

That leaves us with the final option, the only one actually conducive to long-term masculine happiness. It’s not an easy option, and it’s not for everyone, but it will make you happy once you master it. It is this: Take action to get what you want, but in full acknowledgement of how the world actually is, even if you disagree with how the world is.

This means you love women, date women, have sex with women, get into relationships with women, even very serious ones, while assuming that women are not loyal and that she could leave you at any time.

The weak beta male or the right-wing Alpha Male 1.0 takes action on what he wants (relationships with women) but does so not acknowledging how women actually are, and instead assuming they’ll act the way he’s been told women act (beta males) or assuming they will act how women should act (Alpha Male 1.0’s). He gets into serious monogamous relationships or traditional marriages, then she leaves because she’s not loyal, and he’s shocked, and gets sad and depressed (betas) or furious as fuck (Alpha Male 1.0’s).

The MGTOW doesn’t take action on what he wants (relationships with women) and instead focuses on porn and masturbating. At best, he plays with hookers and/or short-term FB’s. He never has a long-term connection with women (or a woman) that he secretly desires (unless he’s an odd exception), particularly as he gets older. Long-term, he’s no more happy than the typical guy in terms of his woman life.

The Alpha Male 2.0 takes action on what he wants (relationships with women), but unlike the typical guy, he objectively looks at the world, sees that, for better or worse, he lives in a society where women are not loyal to men, nor have no incentive to be because of the welfare state and a permissive society, and thus tend to dump guys even when in very serious relationships.

He doesn’t like this, but he wants to be happy, and he knows sitting around and bitching about it won’t make him happy. So instead of screaming and ranting about how horrible today’s women are, and how the entire world should rewind back to the 1950’s (something he knows will literally never happen regardless of who he and his friends vote for), he focuses on internal solutions instead.

Thus, he adopts relationship models (FB, MLTR, OLTR) that protect him against women’s lack of loyalty that may cause problems for him down the road. He’s never monogamous, always has sex with (or perhaps even dates) multiple women at once. He makes sure he has strong long-term goals, that have nothing to do with women, that he finds exciting. He finds great meaning in his life, with or without women. He never expects women to stick around; he’s always prepared for any woman in his life, even when in a very serious relationship, to suddenly leave him, even for reasons he thinks are stupid or petty.

If/when he settles down in his older years, he uses the OLTR marriage model (or variation of it), where he’s still allowed to have sex with women on the side and 100% of his finances are completely separate from her and legally protected. If there’s a break-up/divorce, he’s not exactly happy about it, but he nods knowingly, is not surprised, and his sex life and financial life continue undamaged.

He sympathizes with his right-wing Alpha 1.0 brothers; yeah, women should be loyal. But they aren’t, and sitting around complaining about it accomplishes nothing, other than making you even more angry.

He also knows that going on hundreds of first dates and having scores of short-term relationships to try to screen for a mythical Unicorn Woman isn’t going to work and will likely just waste his time.

He also knows that traveling to some distant country to find her isn’t going to work either because even if he finds such a “loyal” woman, as soon as he brings her back to the Western world, she’ll start acting like all other Western women act.

These things are just right-wing Guy-Disney fantasies, and they don’t acknowledge how the world actually is.

He loves women while A) not making women the be-all and end-all of his life and B) accepting women for how they are, the good and the bad. He enjoys the good while building in systems in his life to protect him from the bad.

As a result, he finds a higher degree of long-term happiness than any other type of man. While other men are suffering and complaining that women aren’t loyal (which is true, they aren’t), he’s having such a great time he doesn’t even notice.

Which path will you choose? As always, it’s up to you.

81 Comments on “Female Loyalty

  1. Great post as always.

    Could you also write a post about dating a woman from a wealthy family as a guy from a midsize family?

    I am currently in this situation and I don´t know if I should dump her immediately. We are both students, but she´s living la vida loca since her parents give her everything. I am the classical student, hard working and studying, managing everything by myself. Shittests are overload, sometimes she brings her ex bf up in conversations when I refuse to do something my budget doesn´t allow. How should I run the game here? I guess LTR will not be possible in this case, but what about being FB?

     

  2. The first part of the post is a reminder of how a woman will always, always, absolutely always try the blame shifting technique. It’s his fault/responsibility, whathever happended, whatever was said, no matter the situation or context.

    They are conscious about this, they know this and they’ll keep on trying to get rid of their responsibility because they know it works. Like children with 20+ years of experience.

    Pity the fool who doesn’t know this.

  3. The realizations make the difference. More men should follow through though as most treat it like some joke conversation they have with their friends. Both 1.0 and betas are to blame for this. They realize these things but then go and joke about it instead of doing something to fix it.

    @Omer: Her standing should not bother you and doesn’t play any role other than helping you disqualify her for an OLTR. Your only job is to keep her attracted and fuck her, not marry her or be her pocket. If you move forward with this in mind, anything she says to get under your skin will not bother you. If she is getting under your skin then it’s your fault.

    @CSR: We probably all went through that shit. And looking back I just laugh with the childish way we treated their childish blame shifting. This blame shifting can and will break everything if you are clueless about it. Compared to the 2.0 way when women see you when you don’t follow through their shit test, get short circuited and think “Why I can’t get under that guy’s skin??” And then they want to fuck your brains out.

  4. This is so depressing. Most of the Western World ( I live in London,  Great Britain) see the world they way they have been told to view it and as a result are generally dissatisfied, frustrated and unhappy. They never really explore why they feel this way and absolutely crucify anyone along with society, who has the resources and bravery to take the path BD or any alternative lifestyle gurus suggests.

  5. @hey hey: yes we’ve all been played. That’s when a good old soft next does wonders. When you think about it, the correct general attitude with a woman is to treat her like a kid and only switch to “adult mode” at the times she deserves it.

  6. People think that because women talk a lot about how much they like marriage etc., that they are the loyal ones. Women like MEN who are down with that, because it serves them biologically in child care. Men are the ones who are true believers in Disney, not women.  Women are Disney men hunters.

    I had a 20 year old co-worker who got married because otherwise they would have to break up and she didn’t want to. They of course split up within the year. Her mother got married 6 times and she is well on her way to matching that.

  7. Funny that we always get the blame.

     

    Although one variation of this where women get screwed is cheating. I’M IN NO WAY PANDERING TO THE DEMOCRATS OR WOMEN, but take Hillary Clinton for example. She was in a position politically where she would get criticism if she left Bill or stayed with Bill from different groups. There was no good option! Women also get this form of (Damned if you Do/Damned if you Don’t). Although her career certainly polarized this.

    I do like where BD mentioned they reveal personal information about you. That’s a big deal. Shows you why you can’t be close friends with most women. In Frank Kermit’s material he talks about how a Woman who doesn’t gossip much/share secrets is a high value woman. All of his material is Golden.

  8. Bottom line,“You can either love women or understand them — never both.”

    When are you going to debate Stephan Molyneaux?

    BD just talking, he’s not serious about it 

  9. This means you love women, date women, have sex with women, get into relationships with women, even very serious ones, while assuming that women are not loyal and that she could leave you at any time.

    In other words, be just as outcome independent with the opposite sex as they. That’s literally all it is. Because chicks get hit on so much, they are outcome independent by nature. It truly is sad that men are becoming more and more needy than chicks nowadays lol.

    Its not a bad thing that “these hos ain’t loyal.” It just means they dislike needy men. Well I don’t like needy men either, so I say good. Let them do them.

  10. This means you love women, date women, have sex with women, get into relationships with women, even very serious ones, while assuming that women are not loyal and that she could leave you at any time.

    Visualize your mind as a group of concentric circles. Keep her away from (seeing the mind as a 5-circle system for example) the 4th and 5th circle, where every little deed of hers (let alone she deserting you) will affect you like a psychic earthquake.

    More broadly: keep the outer world (which won’t change and you can’t change) at safety distance from your center.

     

    @joelsuf

    Chicks, as you call them, have an animus and not an anima at the core of their psyche. It’s way easier for them keep their cool in love affairs.
    It comes natural to them, while men must learn it — after going through some wild ache —.

    The place this is best explained is Jung’s 1925’s essay on “Marriage as a Psychological Relationship”, which a quick google shows up.

  11. Female loyalty?
    If you want loyalty, get a dog!

    Schopenahuer said if you want to be loved, get a dog. Indeed.
    Women can, let’s put it so, “appreciate” you.

    Some right-wing literature likes to peddle the idea that women can’t love men unconditionally, but love their offspring unconditionally.
    Still wishful fantasizing.

  12. So diving into the statistical minority for a second:

    If a man deflowers a virgin, would her attitude towards him be different than say, he’s her 100th man?

    That is, in your experiences, do you notice a difference in pair-bonding mechanism?

    (before anyone freaks out – No, I am not suggesting that men should try to get a virgin wife and all that, this is strictly out of intellectual curiosity)

     

  13. Bottom line,“You can either love women or understand them — never both.”

    I disagree. Understanding women is what makes it possible to love them. If you said “You can either worship women or understand them – never both,” then I’d agree, but there’s a difference between love and worship.

  14. In other words, be just as outcome independent with the opposite sex as they. That’s literally all it is. Because chicks get hit on so much, they are outcome independent by nature. It truly is sad that men are becoming more and more needy than chicks nowadays lol.

    Chicks are anything but outcome independent. If they are hugely attracted to you and you leave them out of the blue when things are perfectly fine they will go into depression. They will call you like crazy and will be just as needy as any average guy. Even the hot ones. Chicks care if you fuck them on the first date because they think they will be called sluts etc. That’s not OI.

    BD had the perfect example for this. If I remember correctly it was about a laser gun that hits both of you simultaneously, but only one gets really hurt, the guy. If you give them the gun that’s what you are getting. So in a manner if you give them the gun they become OI towards you eventually. And if you are not OI already you are fucked.

  15. In Frank Kermit’s material he talks about how a Woman who doesn’t gossip much/share secrets is a high value woman. All of his material is Golden.

    Other than some low self esteemed women with very low sex value(and those will also gossip juicy stuff when they get the chance), good luck with that.

    When you think about it, the correct general attitude with a woman is to treat her like a kid and only switch to “adult mode” at the times she deserves it.

    Yes exactly and after some time when they get to understand you, the “adult mode” is pretty much non existent.

  16. Could you also write a post about dating a woman from a wealthy family as a guy from a midsize family?

    That’s pretty unusual so no.

    How should I run the game here?

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/

    BD, what’s your opinion on the effect of D/s dynamics on the relationship?

    Too general a question.

    In particular, what about the technique Marty suggests in this comment?

    I’m against physically abusing women (or men for that matter), regardless of the reason.

    When are you going to debate Stephan Molyneaux?

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2017/02/02/qa-various-updates-trt-sampson-etc/

    Bottom line,“You can either love women or understand them — never both.”

    Incorrect. I love women, accept them, and fully understand them. (And remember that understanding and accepting does not mean agreeing with them.)

    If a man deflowers a virgin, would her attitude towards him be different than say, he’s her 100th man?

    Yes. She will get oneitis and Disney desires for him faster than otherwise. I’ve been with several women where I was the 2nd man they ever had sex with and this happened pretty much every time.

  17. Understanding women is what makes it possible to love them. If you said “You can either worship women or understand them – never both,” then I’d agree, but there’s a difference between love and worship.

    Then, you are neither (pragmatically) understanding* women nor (deeply) loving them.

    There’s no significant difference between love** and worship.

    *) You still in BluePill realm
    **) Possibly, you just liking them. Love is your #1 priority.

  18. Understanding women and what makes them tick can make you much happier long term.  You are no longer bewildered and all butt hurt when they inevitably act the way women naturally do.   You just learn to shrug it off as typical girl BS and move on with your day instead of obsessing over it and getting depressed.  I never would expect lifelong loyalty from any woman and that’s fine.  I have them around for as long as I can and always have backups.

    I see so many guys distressed and upset over getting dumped “suddenly”, or cheated on, etc…  and trying to get answers which are usually obvious to me.

    If we all would just get past this idea of lifetime monogamy and partnership, I think men and women would be happier.  Society keeps pushing this same narrative on everyone even though we are all different in our needs and desires.  It would be like forcing everyone to have the same career, live in the same house or drive the same car regardless if they like it or not.

  19. “He also knows that traveling to some distant country to find her isn’t going to work either because even if he finds such a “loyal” woman, as soon as he brings her back to the Western world, she’ll start acting like all other Western women act.”

    Not always true. I took my first wife, half -Filipina/half-Chinese back to NZ with me from HK; she was fantastic, only assimilating the ‘good’ aspects, while remaining loyal, feminine, demure etc. Finally I left her and returned to Asia, while she stayed there and eventually met a new husband.

    She was perhaps an exception, with a very strong traditional family and personal values though, but in six years of marriage there she never waivered.

    As has been said elsewhere, it is certainly safer to go to one of these countries and stay there if you can.

  20. Understanding women and what makes them tick can make you much happier long term.  You are no longer bewildered and all butt hurt when they inevitably act the way women naturally do.   You just learn to shrug it off as typical girl BS and move on with your day instead of obsessing over it and getting depressed.  I never would expect lifelong loyalty from any woman and that’s fine.  I have them around for as long as I can and always have backups.
    I see so many guys distressed and upset over getting dumped “suddenly”, or cheated on, etc…  and trying to get answers which are usually obvious to me.
    If we all would just get past this idea of lifetime monogamy and partnership, I think men and women would be happier.  Society keeps pushing this same narrative on everyone even though we are all different in our needs and desires.  It would be like forcing everyone to have the same career, live in the same house or drive the same car regardless if they like it or not.

    Exactly!!!

  21. Not always true.

    When have I ever said anything that is always true?

    She was perhaps an exception

    Not perhaps.

    six years of marriage there she never waivered.

    Thus my point. A divorce after six years is not a successful marriage, nor is a temporary six year marriage the goal of men seeking this kind of woman or relationship.

    If you said you two have been married for 25+ years and she was still perfect, then I’d agree you had something there.

  22. Although one variation of this where women get screwed is cheating.

    No, women do not get screwed by cheating. They get screwed by the man’s lack of discretion. There is a big difference!

    take Hillary Clinton for example.

    HAHAHAHA!!!!! What about the Bull Dyke?

    She was in a position politically where she would get criticism if she left Bill or stayed with Bill from different groups. There was no good option!

    Dude, first of all, he never cheated on her. The Bull Dyke is a lesbian who entered into an open marriage with Bill Clinton because she wanted to be president some day. Their entire marriage was sham, a business deal, a farce, etc…

    They were never monogamous. Their arrangement was that Bill could fuck as many women as he wanted on the side, and the Bull Dyke can lick as much pussy as she wants (most notably, Anthony Weiner’s wife).

    They were always poly. All politicians in Washington are in open marriages.

    The problem is that Bill wasn’t as discrete as he should have been, so when he got caught, both he and the Bull Dyke had to sell it to the masses as “cheating” because the sheep would not accept the existence of open marriages in the 90s, and certainly not from the President of the United States.

    So she had to pretend to be mad at him, while they both continued fucking others on the side. If the marriage were monogamous, she would have divorced him. She didn’t because this was always just a business deal between a man and a lesbian, designed exclusively to make her president one day.

    Donald Trump literally ruined over 30 years of the Bull Dyke’s best laid plans. And for this, I will always be eternally grateful and overcome with glee and genuine joy every time I think about it.

    Bottom line – Male cheaters need to be more discrete. Female cheaters pretty much already are.

     

     

  23. If a man deflowers a virgin, would her attitude towards him be different than say, he’s her 100th man?

    Yes, she’d become delusional, needy as hell, and follow you around like a puppy dog that you tried to leave at the Grand Canyon, but miraculously followed you back and found you.

    Eventually, if you would refuse to give her the Disney fantasy that she craves, she will start acting like a very dangerous wounded animal, which may even result in a false rape accusation in revenge.

    By contrast, if you DO give her the Disney fantasy that she craves, the two of you will get married and have babies while she eventually gets bored with you, starts feeling like she missed out on her “wild years” and will do one of two things:

    Either she will start cheating on you (which will actually slightly improve her mood and make the marriage a little better) or she will be miserable, start fights with you, and then eventually divorce you, take the kids, put you in a homeless shelter, and then make up for lost time by fucking as many men as she can.

    Whichever one of those two she picks, she will blame you for her actions. If she cheats on you, it will be because you don’t give her enough attention, especially when she bought that red bra just for you and you didn’t even mention it! If she divorces you, she will attempt to provoke you into a fight and then be mad that you’re not man enough to resist her agenda, as you keep trying to please her even more, thus compounding her disgust!

    Lesson: Go after the experienced, high sex drive women only. At least that’s what I do. They’re not delusional. They can take rejection. And if they say “I’m in love with you,” they actually mean it and know what they’re talking about, unlike the virgin who will fall in love with a rock if it pops her hymen!

     

     

  24.  If they are hugely attracted to you and you leave them out of the blue when things are perfectly fine they will go into depression. They will call you like crazy and will be just as needy as any average guy. Even the hot ones.

    Yeah that’s if they are attracted. Different than guys, who are now beginning to catch stupid feelings for anything with a vagina.

    if they say “I’m in love with you,” they actually mean it

    None of them mean it. OK maybe like 1 in 100 do. Get real, homie.

    withdraw from the entire system, and refuse to have sex with women or get into any serious relationships with women at all. This is the path of the MGTOW. 

    This is why there needs to be distinctions with MGTOW. Those who refuse to have sex with women are pretty much closet homosexuals. They may as well just turn gay and start having sex with guys, if they can even do that. The second is what MGTOW actually is: No long term relationships, just a whole bunch of short term ones with some FBs. Serious relationships favor chicks nowadays, no point for any man to pursue them.

  25. However, women don’t understand that in a man’s world, if a man is a good husband who treats his wife well, takes care of his family, and everyone once in a while bangs a Vegas hooker but always returns to his wife and family, that is considered “loyal.” 

    Yikes. I’d like to meet the man who believes this and ask him how he’d feel if wife went on vacation, screwed some hot local guy for a ONS, and returned home, would he consider her loyal?

    If you are doing something with a hooker or another woman that you wouldn’t like her to do with another guy, then maybe you shouldn’t be doing that. Or if you are doing something behind your woman’s back that you feel you have to hide from her, that’s when the line has been crossed. Same thing when the genders are reversed. Everyone’s made up definitions of what constitutes as cheating goes out the window when you realize it all boils down to coming to an agreement about what is within or outside of your boundaries.   You create your boundaries, and either they agree or they can walk through the door.

  26. None of them mean it. OK maybe like 1 in 100 do.

    Depends on your def. If “I love you” actually means “I’m in NRE with you and I’m using the SP way of expressing it that I’ve learned from my entourage and TV”, then these girls aren’t really lying, just mistaken. It’s not like men don’t make that same mistake all the time.

    The problem, of course, is that even the real “I love you”, many months post-NRE, doesn’t guarantee at all from things like divorce rape and other trouble. When it’s over, any sense of ‘loyalty’ can easily be dropped.

  27. Question for @Blackdragon

    ive been seeing a woman age 22 me 26 for 2 months. I never made any promises or commitments to her about a relationship. She is leaving her stuff (marking territory) and getting crazy about me seeing other women when I don’t confirm it or mention it. I’m doing the gradual faucet technique we’re i gradually warm it. What should I do in your opinion? Should I drop her, or should I try another approach?

  28. Yikes. I’d like to meet the man who believes this

    Millions do.

    and ask him how he’d feel if wife went on vacation, screwed some hot local guy for a ONS, and returned home, would he consider her loyal?

    Of course he wouldn’t, but remember, men’s biological default is polygamy; I can fuck other women but you can’t fuck other men.

    It doesn’t make any sense and it isn’t fair, but biology and Societal Programming don’t care.

    And to be clear, women’s biological default sucks too: serial monogamy; I’ll fuck this guy and treat him like my boyfriend until I get bored, then I can dump him even if he’s done nothing wrong and fuck the next new exciting guy that drops into my life.

    Question for @Blackdragon

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/

  29. “If your husband of many decades, with whom you have lived, loved and raised kids, is not interested in working on your relationship, you should change your partner,” says Avivah Wittenberg-Cox, CEO of 20-first, a gender-balance consultancy, and author of Late Love: Mating in Maturity.
    Tim, an old friend who turned out to be her “soulmate”. Her husband of 22 years was good for the stability of raising kids – but after that he was expendable.
    “He had the nerve to think he was doing what he was supposed to be doing – not fooling around, earning money – and thought that was enough.”

    I’m not sure what the husband was unwilling to do, she was probably bored and just made up that excuse for leaving him, or made impossible demands – knowing he would never be able to change or be willing to submit to her wants.

  30. Blackdragon,

    Do you have a step by step way that you to formulate an internal solution for any issue? I have read Harry Brownes and  Robert Ringers book as well as your blog posts and find this concept to be very pragmatic and logical and I wish to implement it everywhere in my life.

  31. Good article.  Society changes quicker and quicker.  People are trying to squeeze an old concept from the past into this new world.

     

    Im realizing that im one of those guys that actually does not like relationships. Or maybe i dont like women. I like the game of pushing myself to approach, make new girls laugh, meet new chicks, hooking up,  but i really dont even like being around women.  I do it for the gratification of feeling powerful/persuasive and sex drive, thats probably it.   Most women bore me to death, cant handle deep conversation without getting offended, and remind me of children.

    Every now and then i meet a very bubbly, feminine girl that starts to change my mind, but eventually its over and im relieved to have my freedom back.  So maybe im mgtow with pua tendencies or vice versa.  Who knows.  My mother was super abusive and my sisters and her are textbook man hating feminazis ( i just realized in the last few years.).  It would make some sense.  Lol i sound like a bitter, old divorced guy but im 34 and havent had any long relationships.

  32. If a man deflowers a virgin, would her attitude towards him be different than say, he’s her 100th man?

    I would say yes, in my experience, but I should add that each time I’ve been with a virgin I was young myself. But in each case they have developed an attachment that I didn’t want and didn’t encourage, and that is not the norm with sexually experienced women. One in particular was very difficult to deal with, even though she had virtually begged me to have sex with her and said beforehand that she was not wanting any sort of long-term  exclusive relationship. But you live and learn.

  33. Yeah that’s if they are attracted. Different than guys, who are now beginning to catch stupid feelings for anything with a vagina.

    That was just an example. You can find anything in any woman’s life that makes her highly outcome dependent. What you mix up is her way she drops guys. But the inbetween is anything but OI.

    A guy would have treated a woman a similar way if she found some new more beautiful and exciting woman. She would drop the current without any thought and treat her like shit. Even a beta is capable of that.

    Also a woman will catch stupid feelings for a highly dumb guy just because he is indifferent to her.

  34. This really is spot on.  I still struggle with it from time to time, but it’s reality.

    I recently caught my wife lying about something.  I know she’s lying.  I got butthurt about it and acted pissy, but then I caught myself, dropped the whole subject, and just let it go.  I’m not leaving my machine shop and my dog to prove a point of honor, and she’s NEVER going to admit she lied.

    It’s frustrating, but that’s the nature of the beast.  Women lie, they aren’t loyal, and they have no real honor.  These are man concepts.  If you want a partner who is loyal, truthful, and honorable, you have to fuck dudes.  No thanks!

  35. Mind vs. Reality

    Guy’s Mind: I’m every gals dream guy.  I approach daily and get 1 workable gal each wk.

    Girl’s Reality: I’m just a gal like any other.  I get approached 4 times daily getting my coffee and lunch.  I do nothing at all, I get approached so much, I label daily guys who approach me as lame, boring.

    Mind: The Male 2.0 stay happy always cause you can control it.  Until external circumstances affect it.

    Reality: There comes a pt where Male 2.0 internal solutions won’t work.  Male 2.0 is a constant happy mind meanwhile your city is being cut up into no go zones.  USA is a selective liberal place meaning well off liberals’ houses are separated from social houses.  Countries that are truly liberal mandate luxury living with social housing built direct across the street.  Portions of luxury skyrises are mandated to have portions designated for unemployed, uneducated, immigrants.  USA doesn’t do this.  This allows those USA liberals to go around happily screaming to allow more welfare, social housing because there are no groups of people in their immediate daily eye’s view who are really rough and intimidate them on the daily.

  36. There are no snowflakes…there is only chick logic.

    Chick logic is (flawed) logic AFTER the fact, not before. When a guy cheats, he does not rationalize cheating. He just flat out lies to his main gal and then follows his animal instincts (put your dick inside that hottie now!). Then he gets caught and gets lots of drama.

    When a girl cheats, she usually has:

    1) a carefully formulated plan or at least an idea of when and were she’ll do it

    2) she bangs the first guy who fits the bill, then covers her dirty like a cat on a sandbox;

    3) chick logic enters, she rationalizes she did it because of X reasons (but it’s never 100% her fault) and go on with her life like nothing happened;

    If you want loyalty, get a dog (it’s true).

    Women will never understand men’s sense of honor and loyalty. Ever. Like BD said, a mono guy can have some on the side and still be 100% loyal to his wife and family. Women won’t understand that type of concept and rational thinking. It’s biologically impossible!

    This is why they flake dates. This is why they friendzone guys. This is why they go after guy’s assets during a divorce. This is why they are not united and constantly pull the rug from under each other. This is why they date nice guys forever and don’t have sex with them, but fuck jerks after 15 minutes of smooth talk…it’s not their fault! And it’s not something bad per se. It’s just how they are. It only becomes bad if you don’t understand it, don’t get precautions, get pissed and suffer the consequences of your dumbness.

  37. As Blackdragon has demonstrated.. this is more evidence that you should.

    Get a Pre-Nup if you do get Married (OLTR)
    DO NOT diviuldge personal information that can be used to hurt you. Unless you’re divuldging some sort of weakness you turned into a strength to show value (be carful though)
    Dont believe Mongamy Pledges™️
    Don’t slip too far into Roamance that you end up in Guy Disney. This is where the biggest mistakes get made!!

    It’s a good thing we have these articles to help remind us not to Fuck Up lol

    It makes sense when you look at girls friendships. I’m not saying all, but many girls friendships are like Political Alliances. They turn on each other with quickness!

  38. I’d like to meet the man who believes this and ask him how he’d feel if wife went on vacation, screwed some hot local guy for a ONS, and returned home, would he consider her loyal?

    I wouldn’t care, but I don’t have expectations that anyone is not going to betray you eventually.  Believing otherwise is just societal programming messing with you.

    (full disclosure: I was that guy for DECADES)

    Certainly, there are loyal women out there.  Problem is there’s no Voight-Kampff test for women like there is for replicants.

    Dont legally marry them and your problem is mostly addressed.  They can’t hit you with the hammer if you don’t give it to them.

     

  39. Do you have a step by step way that you to formulate an internal solution for any issue?

    Yes.

    1. Rationally identify the problem.

    2. Objectively define how unhappy the problem makes me, or will make me in the future.

    3. Ignore how society usually tries to solve the problem and instead do objective research on how the problem would actually be fixed in the real world, even if such fixes seem weird or emotionally uncomfortable. The only two parameters these systems must follow: they must be legal, and they can’t require me to lie to anyone. Other than that, sky’s the limit.

    4. Come up with two plans to deal with the problem, Plan A and Plan B.

    5. Repeatedly test Plan A, track results, improve.

    6. If Plan A is still a dud, repeat step 5 with Plan B.

    7. Solve problem.

    8. Identify the work involved in making sure the problem stays fixed forever, and resolve to do that forever.

  40. There comes a pt where Male 2.0 internal solutions won’t work.

    That occurrence is very rare. But if it happens, you just move to some other region where they do work, which is easy for an Alpha 2.0 because of his location independent income.

  41. You can either love women or understand them — never both.”

    “It’s either love women, or suck a big dick. Thanks, God – thanks for the big menu!”

    Sam Kinison

  42. “He had the nerve to think he was doing what he was supposed to be doing – not fooling around, earning money – and thought that was enough.”

    I’m starting to feel less and less sympathy for men who get shafted. They expect to just do what they’re told, work and pay for stuff. The woman is supposed to accept this AND be loyal. Then they get upset when this script doesn’t work.

  43. Thank you, Blackdragon, for this post. It inspired me – I’m hammering the final nail to the coffin of the beta-I-used-to-be while also hammering a nail to the coffin of the Alpha 1.0 I was becoming. There is simply more to be had.

    I will make sure to pass on the wisdom when appropriate. Now, I’ll get busy making myself as free as possible and financially independent. Then I’ll pick pleasures from this strange a la carte that we call life 🙂

    What we do and say matters way more than we think. I’ll remember that too.

     

     

     

  44. None of this is based in fact. Nor is it an educational forum it’s a bitch session. The author writes at a low-level. His arguemets are all over the place and are likely pieced together from dating and pick up blogs, not from his actual life experience. 

    He is making assertions from one-off cases. You cannot recognize patterns from one off cases. There is no script to dating. Relationships are complex and everyone is unique and it’s never about who breaks up with who, it’s about taking lessons from every relationship and applying them to your life.
    You can’t become alpha by reading blogs, you only become alpha by being the boss of your life. That’s why you are frustrated by women, you aren’t the boss yet. You know it and they  know it. It’s ok, it’s not your fault that your dad didn’t help you understand women. It’s not your fault that your not athletic or really good looking. But you can change, if you work at it. Look around to men in your life who are in healthy relationships and ask them for advice. 
    Women don’t owe you anything. Don’t expect them to make up for your shortfalls. Stop watching porn and playing video games. Exercise and go to sleep early. Commit to a decade of education and personal development and you will be fine.

  45. None of this is based in fact.

    Incorrect. It is all based in fact, namely multiple statistics and scientific studies I have linked to many times over the past many years.

    His arguemets are all over the place

    How so?

    and are likely pieced together from dating and pick up blogs, not from his actual life experience.

    Right, I’ve been writing about this stuff non-stop for 10 years publicly, and clearly I have the level of genius required to make it all up and keep all the lies consistent over that period of time and that amount of content.

    Moreover, I am the one who ended most of my serious relationships, not the women, so if this was just based off my experience, my view on this would literally be the opposite.

    He is making assertions from one-off cases.

    Nope, I’m making them from statistics over a wide population of humans.

    There is no script to dating.

    There is in the respect that you can do certain things to raise or lower the odds of success.

    Relationships are complex and everyone is unique and it’s never about who breaks up with who, it’s about taking lessons from every relationship and applying them to your life.
    You can’t become alpha by reading blogs, you only become alpha by being the boss of your life. That’s why you are frustrated by women, you aren’t the boss yet. You know it and they  know it. It’s ok, it’s not your fault that your dad didn’t help you understand women. It’s not your fault that your not athletic or really good looking. But you can change, if you work at it. Look around to men in your life who are in healthy relationships and ask them for advice.
    Women don’t owe you anything. Don’t expect them to make up for your shortfalls. Stop watching porn and playing video games. Exercise and go to sleep early. Commit to a decade of education and personal development and you will be fine.

    You realize that literally everything you just said is exactly what I recommend to men?

    What is it like to be the kind man (or woman?) who posts a negative comment on a blog when you clearly know nothing about the author nor his advice, thus getting literally everything in your comment wrong? It’s honestly fascinating.

  46. My first thought was “Speak English Please”.
    Second “No Hablo Espagnol”

    The most loyal women is the obsessed stalker. Also the most dangerous.
    Manson is a prime example.

  47. Man, the SP is deep with that one.

    No matter who is at fault, ultimately you have to make the best decisions you can for your own personal situation.  Pretty simple.

  48. I’m starting to feel less and less sympathy for men who get shafted. They expect to just do what they’re told, work and pay for stuff. The woman is supposed to accept this AND be loyal. Then they get upset when this script doesn’t work.

    I agree. I say let them be shafted, as well as #metoo’d for being dumbasses, expecting the chicks they are with to be like their mommies AND have sex with them at the same time. Doesn’t work that way anymore, homies. Quit trying to fit a square peg into a triangle hole.

    I am so DONE having sympathy for betas and alpha 1s. Omegas who feel like they never had a chance because they are disabled/beaten down by life I kind of feel bad for and wish to help (I used to be one), but not betas and alpha 1s who walk RIGHT INTO disaster hoping it will maintain them (beta) or that they can “change” it (alpha 1). Done with them. They do not exist to me. The stupidity doesn’t even surprise me anymore and I don’t feel sorry for them when it breaks down.

    MGTOW, fellas. That’s the way. And not the /pol/ posting, PUA obsessed, neckbearded troll MGTOW who still wants chicks to replace his mommy even though he’ll never admit it. That’s not real MGTOW, that’s closet homosexuality. Unacceptable for a man. I respect ACTUAL homo guys more. At least they KNOW they want to have sex with guys cuz chicks don’t do it for them lol.

    I’m talking BD’s brand of MGTOW, which is the tagline of his damn blog: Love Women While Still Being Free. Get with that, son.

  49.  

    A brief scan of the comments tells me that this forum encourages the use of pick-up terminology and strategy. DATING IS NOT A WAR AND WOMEN ARE NOT THEENEMY. A STRONG RELATIONSHIP IS A PARTNERSHIP NOT A POWER STRUGGLE. And if you don’t see the themes emerging from this forum, you’re not paying close enough attention to your base.

    The fact that you have kept careful track of who left who in your past relationships is actually proving my point about your maturity level.

    Sure, there is a script to dating, but it contributes to maybe 10% of success. Timing, mood, mindset, self-esteem, practice, general position in life  contribute much more. But your daily habits and what you actually DO, with your life contributes the most. It’s like supplements: take all the creatine you want, if dont follow a strict diet and weight routine, you won’t see results.

     

    I get that everyone needs a place to belong without being judged, and I’m not judging anyone here, I’m criticizing the content and the message, which as anyone sincerely committed to personal growth would know is very different than hating.

    Why do I care? Because I’m a man who loves women, and I can tell you that women are not into guys who are into this stuff  and the smart ones are starting to withdraw from dating altogether. So the only people playing games are the ones here.

     

    Hey, good for you for being driven and determined enough to keep a business going for 10 years, it’s an accomplishment. It does not, however qualify you to be giving life advice. What if something you suggest backfires? Are going to hold yourself accountable? Or are  you going to pin it on them, saying they didn’t execute properly!

    And Inserting, ‘literally’ and ‘honestly into every other sentence. does not make you sound smart, it makes you sound uneducated.

  50. DATING IS NOT A WAR AND WOMEN ARE NOT THEENEMY. A STRONG RELATIONSHIP IS A PARTNERSHIP NOT A POWER STRUGGLE.

    Correct, and I’ve said that many times, particularly here. If you had actually read some of my past articles, you would know that.

    Again, that thing about posting negative comments on a blog you know literally nothing about…

    And Inserting, ‘literally’ and ‘honestly into every other sentence. does not make you sound smart, it makes you sound uneducated.

    Honestly and literally, based on your comments and mine, I know exactly which of us sounds uneducated.

  51. BD, at one point in time I had thought that maybe I might entertain being married again. (The only reason I left my ex-husband was because he was extremely abusive otherwise I would have stayed with him.) After having read several of your articles and experiencing a guy who says he’s an Alpha Male I no longer see being married as a reasonable thing to do considering the odds are he would most likely end up cheating on me from what I understand from reading your blog he wouldn’t be able to be monogamous no matter how fun I am or what I do for him. I still believe in being monogamous if in a marriage and as for me I have no problem controlling my actions and taking my sexual frustrations out on the man I’m with only, and keeping toys handy, or my shower to keep my sexual cravings tamed down when he’s not available. I’ve never cheated on anyone I’ve dated or my ex-husband. I also hold great value on the fact that I’m STD free and prefer keep it that way. I’m a very attractive woman (I’d say at the very least an 8) and have an extremely high sex drive (my entire life since I first experienced my hormones) and very kinky and diverse in bed or wherever else my partner and I happen to be when the mood sets in which is often. I have no problem with him watching porn as I do that too and enjoy watching it with him also. I don’t have a problem with each other getting a happy ending massage together or separately if he wants to get a massage and hand job, or him masturbating.   I’m a very loyal friend and lover with an intense level of intimacy and passion. I hold a great deal of respect for my man and the more loyalty and nice things that he does for me makes me want to go above and beyond to do things for him, and makes me feel more submissive and want to make him happy. I’m a pleaser by nature, and those things inspire my deepest devotion contrary to what most women are like in this respect. Do you think that it’s possible for an Alpha male to be loyal to one woman forever? If not, what would the incentive be for a woman to want to marry a man if that’s what he’s wanting to do one day? If he were to cheat on me it would be easier to just break up if we weren’t married and we wouldn’t have to worry about the loss of time, and money on attorneys etc, and having to split our assets. If I have a great deal of assets this honestly seems like it would be a risky endeavor to marry anyone especially a man who claims to be an Alpha male. If an open relationship isn’t an option because we both get jealous and it hurts the other when either of you go out with someone else or talk to someone else how do you deal with that? I’m just not sure if marriage would be a great idea if things are great the way they are, and don’t see why a woman would want to marry an Alpha Male knowing that he isn’t capable of being faithful to one woman longterm.

  52. @Steve

    Although BD answered some of your points, I’ll address the ones he didn’t

    None of this is based in fact. Nor is it an educational forum it’s a bitch session.

    Per the Oxford dictionary: Educational – Intended or serving to educate or enlighten. The post clearly shows an objective reality (backed by all the facts linked to the page) and then provides a practical, step by step how to deal with it; namely under the “What to do about it section”, in case you missed it. It fits perfectly into actual definition of educational.

    His arguments are all over the place 

    No, they’re not. The main argument of the article, which is “acknowledge the way the world (in this case women loyalty) works, and plan accordingly for long-term happiness” is right in the middle of the article. In bold letters.

    and are likely pieced together from dating and pick up blogs, not from his actual life experience

    Real-world statistics (also linked in the article) do not constitute as being “pieced together from dating and pick up blogs”. Even if they’re emotionally uncomfortable (which they are).

    He is making assertions from one-off cases. You cannot recognize patterns from one off cases. 

    I agree. You can’t recognize patterns from one off cases; that’s why, besides personal experience, BD relies on actual, real-world statistics.

    A brief scan of the comments 

    That’s a problem right there, and you’re proving BD’s point. You’re emitting judgements without actually reading stuff.

    Tells me that this forum encourages the use of pick-up terminology and strategy.

    Yes it does, because terminology and strategy simplify the process of improving an ability (dating) and achieving a desired outcome, but you obviously find something wrong in that. Mind sharing why? Please be very specific.

    And if you don’t see the themes emerging from this forum, you’re not paying close enough attention to your base.

    We all (except you) see the themes emerging from this blog:  male personal development and freedom, based on facts, not feelings. You, for some reason, seem very  oppossed to these concepts.

    The fact that you have kept careful track of who left who in your past relationships is actually proving my point about your maturity level.

    You do know that keeping track of anything you do is the only way to improve, right? Also, in your previous comment, you never stated point about “maturity level”, so I don’t know where you’re getting this from now.

    There is no script to dating

    First you say this, but then:

    Sure, there is a script to dating

    Completely contradictory. Please pick a stand.

     but it contributes to maybe 10% of success.

    Where did you get this number figure exactly? And I hope it wasn’t from past experiences, since that would mean that you actually kept track of your dating results, and that, by your own admission, “proves a point about maturity level”.

    Timing, mood, mindset, self-esteem, practice, general position in life  contribute much more. But your daily habits and what you actually DO, with your life contributes the most. It’s like supplements: take all the creatine you want, if dont follow a strict diet and weight routine, you won’t see results.

    Completely agree. And by the way, guess what does following a strict diet and weight routine entails? Exactly, keeping track of it.

    I get that everyone needs a place to belong without being judged, and I’m not judging anyone here, I’m criticizing the content and the message

    Providing back-handed insults about someone’s maturity constitutes as judging. So you’re not only criticizing the content and the message.

    Why do I care? Because I’m a man who loves women, and I can tell you that women are not into guys who are into this stuff 

    Again, where did you get this from? “One-off cases”? “Personal experience” ? Really?

    Hey, good for you for being driven and determined enough to keep a business going for 10 years, it’s an accomplishment. It does not, however qualify you to be giving life advice.What if something you suggest backfires? Are going to hold yourself accountable? Or are  you going to pin it on them, saying they didn’t execute properly!

    BD gives advice, again, based mainly on facts the experiences of himself and hundreds of other men. On the other hand, you’ve been giving “life advice” all over your comments. So now tell me, what does make you qualified to do so? What if something you suggest backfires? Are you going to hold yourself accountable? Are are you going to pin it on us, saying we didn’t execute your advice properly?

    And Inserting, ‘literally’ and ‘honestly into every other sentence. does not make you sound smart, it makes you sound uneducated.

    And how does this, assuming you’re right (which you are not), has anything to do with the topic at hand?

    Honestly dude, I get that you’re intentions are good, but angrily answering to a blog post without reading the author’s material is never a good idea; and it also does not make you sound smart, it makes you sound uneducated.

  53. I can tell you that women are not into guys who are into this stuff

    How wrong you are here is laughable. That’s like saying, men are not into women who read Cosmo.

    and the smart ones are starting to withdraw from dating altogether.

    Wow! So you’re in favor of lesbian separatism and man-hating, and designating that as smart? Why do you hate your own manhood? Did a man molest you as a child?

    It does not, however qualify you to be giving life advice.

    Who is qualified then?

    What if something you suggest backfires? Are going to hold yourself accountable? Or are  you going to pin it on them, saying they didn’t execute properly!

    Any type of life advice could technically backfire. That’s an argument against anyone ever giving advice to anyone else, which is absurd. Everything has risk. But being a risk-averse beta isn’t the way to go.

    Do you drive a car? What if you get into a car accident? Is the car dealer going to take the blame, or will he say that you got into that accident because you didn’t drive the vehicle properly?

    And Inserting, ‘literally’ and ‘honestly into every other sentence. does not make you sound smart, it makes you sound uneducated.

    Honestly, using the term “uneducated” doesn’t make you sound smart. It literally makes you sound like a smug elitist.

     

     

  54. If not, what would the incentive be for a woman to want to marry a man

    None at all. Marriage does not make any sense.

    If an open relationship isn’t an option because we both get jealous and it hurts the other when either of you go out with someone else…

    People in OLTRs do not go out with other people. They only have fuck buddies without an emotional attachment.

    …or talk to someone else how do you deal with that?

    If you’re going to get jealous whenever your man talks to someone else, there’s a problem within yourself that you need to address.

  55. I’ve never cheated on anyone I’ve dated or my ex-husband. I also hold great value on the fact that I’m STD free and prefer keep it that way. I’m a very attractive woman (I’d say at the very least an 8) and have an extremely high sex drive (my entire life since I first experienced my hormones) and very kinky and diverse in bed or wherever else my partner and I happen to be when the mood sets in which is often. I have no problem with him watching porn as I do that too and enjoy watching it with him also.

    That’s all nice but none of that will prevent a man from eventually cheating.

    Monogamy doesn’t work, particularly for Alpha Males.

    Do you think that it’s possible for an Alpha male to be loyal to one woman forever?

    Emotionally, financially, familially, and logistically, yes. (Though it’s hard).

    Sexually, no.

    If not, what would the incentive be for a woman to want to marry a man if that’s what he’s wanting to do one day?

    Emotional, spiritual, financial, family, and logistical reasons. Wanting to share your life with someone is not all about sex, right? (I can’t believe me, a man, is telling you, a woman, this.)

    If an open relationship isn’t an option because we both get jealous and it hurts the other when either of you go out with someone else or talk to someone else how do you deal with that?

    I describe that in detail in this book and this book and this book. And as Anon said, you don’t date other people, you just have condomed sex with other people, that’s it.

    I’m just not sure if marriage would be a great idea if things are great the way they are, and don’t see why a woman would want to marry an Alpha Male knowing that he isn’t capable of being faithful to one woman longterm.

    It sounds to me like you’re married to the wrong man. But you also need to remember that you’ll have the exact same problem with the next husband unless you make accommodations for him to play around sexually on the side a little bit when he needs to.

  56. Why can’t I use my Gravatar image anymore?

    I don’t want to be mistaken for that “Steve” guy.

  57. Sometimes the timing of these posts coincides with what’s happening in my dating life perfectly…

    Just had 2/3 of my wonderful MLTRs dump me (yes I know that’s a lot of MLTRs, but I’m a more emotional dude). I introduced these two because they are super kinky and wanted to have a threesome with me. We had the single best threesome of my life together. Seriously, it was insane…

    Fast-forward two months, they have both been dropping hints that they want to be my “primary” and I’ve been responding that I’m not 100% ready for that yet, but that it’s definitely something I want in the future (I love having a primary partner/OLTR). They decide to talk to each other on the phone and ended up outing me on a lie I had told one of them. She got real angry, called me on it, and I agreed that I was wrong and apologized (lying is a terrible habit from my monogamy days). We made up. Then the second girl called and dumped me the very next day saying I was incapable of having a primary (untrue, I want that in the near future), and told me she no longer loves me and wishes to never see me again. Then they talked again, and the first girl dumped me in the same way. These are women I’ve been seeing for over a year and care about very much. I can’t help being somewhat heartbroken about this, and have been wondering how I can improve and not have this happen in the future. I clearly made mistakes, but how do you handle this kind of situation?

  58. Also, should I simply tell my favorite girl that she’s the most important to me? Actually make a choice without creating a primary relationship yet? I don’t know how to handle this but I really don’t want to lose BOTH of them, especially not my favorite, I care about her very much and want her to stick around.

  59. Why can’t I use my Gravatar image anymore?

    That’s a problem with your account over at gravatar.com or wordpress.com. I have no control over it.

    I clearly made mistakes, but how do you handle this kind of situation?

    My policy is to not answer questions about “that one girl” but since you’re asking about two girls you’re dating, which means you’re actually doing this stuff correctly, I’ll provide a single response to your questions.

    Having two concurrent MLTR‘s (or even FB‘s) who are actually friends and know each other is an extremely advanced form of relationship game, not recommended for someone who is in the beginning stages, which it sounds like you are. I’m not saying you can’t do it (I just spent last evening with my OLTR and my primary FB, who are now friends because I put them together, and it was fucking awesome). I’m saying you need to delay that kind of thing for when you get really, really good at this stuff after years of nonmono relationship experience and building outcome independence. The possibility of problems are too high, resulting in both women leaving you at the same time, as you’ve now discovered.

    Also, should I simply tell my favorite girl that she’s the most important to me?

    That’s fine, but if she comes back, keep her as a MLTR. Never upgrade a relationship just because a woman demands it.

    Actually make a choice without creating a primary relationship yet?

    Sure, if you want.

    I don’t know how to handle this but I really don’t want to lose BOTH of them, especially not my favorite, I care about her very much and want her to stick around.

    That is oneitis thought and you need to man the fuck up and stop thinking like that right now. There are likely thousands of women better than her within a 20 minute drive of your home. Stop it.

    Good luck.

  60. Your mistake was in commingling these two.  Had you kept them separated this wouldn’t have been a problem.

    I remember reading Strauss “the Truth” and being struck by his experiment of bringing three women (that he was previously seeing in an open relationship) into the same house.  It exploded on him in a pile of drama and jealousy.  Shocking!

    I’m going to go full antichick and cite this article I found earlier.  Seems appropriate for this thread.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/women-reportedly-uncivil-women-work-men-article-1.3851460

     

  61. That’s a problem with your account over at gravatar.com or wordpress.com. I have no control over it.

    It’s only happening here and not on the other blog, but I suppose it’s not a big deal.

    On topic: If you want a loyal bitch, then get a dog!

  62. Bruh, I gleaned so much out of this article…

    One of your better ones at least as it relates to me. Since I was 13 yrs of age I knew women weren’t loyal and would come and go. In many instances in this article you touch base on some of the mistakes I’ve made, even knowing what I knew, and some of the goals I and others should seek.

    Well Done BD, Very Well Done..

    Chavel

  63. Thanks BD, that was helpful.

    Just to be clear, I was dating THREE women, not just the two. But you are correct, I’m still pretty new at this, it’s only been about a year and a half since I started.

    The two women that dumped me didn’t know each other beforehand, I introduced them in order to have some very fun threesome adventures together, which we did! It got fucked up when I was continuing to maintain romantic relationships with all three, causing a sort of “queen of the hill” effect which I had never dealt with before and was clearly ill-equipped to do so. I have your latest open relationships manual and will continue to practice.

  64. Hi BD,

    I’d like to change the way people frame the female loyalty debate.

    he lives in a society where women are not loyal to men

    I would contend that there is no such thing as a society where women are loyal to men.

    A strong statement that definitely contradicts the ideas so many TradCon fools hold (that you should go overseas to where “Traditional Values” hold sway to find your “Good Woman.”)

    It’s true that there are societies where women face disincentives to be disloyal (Traditional Values.)

    But there are no societies where women are loyal to men.

    I can say from experience having visited and lived in many parts of the world where Traditional Values hold sway, that women are not “being loyal,” they’re simply responding rationally to coercion to “not be disloyal.” There’s a difference.

    And when they get the chance to get some Alpha sperm, to make a hypergamous move to a better provider, to get their tingles with a high SMV guy . . . they still do it, sometimes even in the face of great personal danger!

    This is because at the biological, brain hardwiring level, women do not have the loyalty instinct that men have.

    Men project the way they experience the world onto women.

  65. DATING IS NOT A WAR AND WOMEN ARE NOT THE ENEMY. A STRONG RELATIONSHIP IS A PARTNERSHIP NOT A POWER STRUGGLE.

    Actually, it kind of really is. Have you never been in a long term relationship? Have you not witnessed any married couple you know divorce? However, women are not the “enemy” (although the current narrative of sex and gender tells women that men are the enemy…unless you find a way to control them).

    This is the enemy. That’s from my blog by the way. When we end this narrative that tells us that not only is it socially acceptable, but morally sound to place stupid amounts of pressure on someone with “monogamy,” then it will stop being a power struggle.

    the use of pick-up terminology and strategy.

    That’s exactly what any man who is successful with women DO NOT use actually.

    I get that everyone needs a place to belong without being judged

    I am SHOCKED JOTB hasn’t come at you for this yet lol. I believe the opposite, everyone needs a place where they are judged constantly. Being “judged” makes you adjust your way of thinking and your strategies. Not to mention opens your mind a bit and will get you to resist the temptation to not judge others yourself, because you have been judged. Self-government; get with it!

    For example, I’m an anarcho-capitalist who believes marriage should be illegal. I get judged on everything all the time and get attacked by ALL angles. It’s astoundingly hilarious how butthurt people get when you turn their arguments against them. So I am very much used to being judged and attacked. If I was actually successful, I’d probably get doxxed quite a bit as well.

    Keeping that in mind, last night I went out with a Sanders fangirl who doesn’t believe in open relationships (but she’ll do three-ways for some reason…mmmkay?). So right leaning Big “L” Libertarian meets uber lefty. Hmm…should I judge her just for grounds of her punching left? Um no, that wouldn’t be cool at all especially if I want to have sex with her. So I’ll refuse the temptation to call her whatever names my “camp” (and the AnCaps definitely have a camp) and instead see if we can have a nice connection. How cool is that!

    Its because of this observation that I think BD should allow personal attacks when discussing his blogs. We need to learn how to not be butthurt and just joke around, and allowing personal attacks can (and will) do that.

  66. Its because of this observation that I think BD should allow personal attacks when discussing his blogs.

    No. He’s right, personal attacks end the conversation. If people were calling each other “moron” or “idiot” every fifth or sixth comment as occasional punctuation or a sign of exasperation, I wouldn’t mind, but that’s not how it would go: the entire comment section would be filled with silly namecalling from the butthurt who can’t defend their case with rational arguments. Rule N°1 keeps the discussion relatively fruitful and less time is wasted.

    On the other hand, ad hominems without name calling I’m 100% on board with. Concluding legit arguments with a final ad hominem to bring the other guy’s attention to his biases or to the dishonesty/stupidity of their own arguments is legitimate and healthy, so if that’s your main point I agree.

  67. No. He’s right, personal attacks end the conversation. If people were calling each other “moron” or “idiot” every fifth or sixth comment as occasional punctuation or a sign of exasperation, I wouldn’t mind, but that’s not how it would go: the entire comment section would be filled with silly namecalling from the butthurt who can’t defend their case with rational arguments. Rule N°1 keeps the discussion relatively fruitful and less time is wasted.

    Precisely; that’s exactly what ends up happening. Guys who say things like “we should be allowed to call other commenters ‘pricks’ or whatever, that’s not big deal!” don’t understand that during internet discourse, “prick” quickly becomes long paragraphs of psychotic ranting that spin the entire conversation off the rails and far away from the original topic. Next thing you know, that stuff makes up 30% of the thread, or more.

    Men on the internet don’t have the emotional control to just stop at “asshole” or “prick” or “narcissist” or whatever. I wish they did. I really do. But they don’t.

  68. I believe the opposite, everyone needs a place where they are judged constantly. Being “judged” makes you adjust your way of thinking and your strategies.

    Criticized with substantiation, yes, but not judged. “Are you sure your safe(r) sex practices are adequate vs the common STIs?” vs “You slut!!!11!”

  69. Hate to break it to everyone, but dogs aren’t loyal either. If another person offered them better food, playtime, and attention, a dog will go with the better option too.

    It really is not complicated, just assume that every living creature, man, woman, child, dog, etc will always do whatever is in their best interests in the moment. And that changes over time depending on shifting circumstances, opportunities, incentives, and disincentives. Stop expecting anything other than that and you will stop being disappointed. If you want to feel secure in someone’s “loyalty” (whether that be a friend, woman, employee, or whatever), the ONLY thing you can do is make sure that you are always their best option. And if you are not, then don’t expect “loyalty”, which is really a ridiculously self-centered and childish concept which expects others to act NOT in their own best interests but in yours.

    P.S. This romanticized idea many of you have of the “loyalty” of men is ridiculous too. Men will bang their best friend’s girl behind her back, lie to their employer, hell, lots of men throughout history have murdered their own brothers so they could be king, etc. Loyalty and fidelity are just made up feel good concepts to try to coerce others to act in someone else’s interests, and an illusion bc what appeaars as loyalty is usually just a rational analysis of social consequences and incentives.

  70. Loyal? nope….. and why do women ALWAYS state on their dating profiles that they are “loyal” ??????

  71. I think this frame… is probably the hardest chunk of the redpill to swallow for most men, i know it was for me.

    Men usually become devastated when they find our their precious little toy has been gorilla-fucked behind his back. Especially after she blows a bunch of smoke up his ass about how much she loves him, you are the best thing that happened to me.. blah fuckin’ blah. Never listen to what women say, and always be aware that portrayed innocence is very seductive, and women know this.

    I just had two MLTR‘s dump me in the past couple weeks, but thanks to some tools and techniques out there, including this blog, I was full-on expecting to be LSNFTE‘d, i knew it was just a matter of time. And it did not phase me one bit, it was relieving in a way.

    They are pretty funny stories though lol…

    The first one was my ‘youngun’ been pounding her since she was barely 22 and now she is 26, (i’m 39) she has LSNFTE‘d me numerous times to go ride the magic school bus.. with beta providers that will feed her, and ‘love’ her, pay for her drug/drinking habits etc. Then she just absolutely destroys these men, using them as a proxy to get back at her father, or whatever. Then she calls me and i proceed to lay-pipe, but never EVER talk or even bring up relationships, she can do whatever the fuck she wants, which has kept her glued to my dick, until she hits the inevitable wall, which as a party girl that doesn’t exercise, is coming FAST. But for now, i am grateful to have a young FB that comes and goes and is a amazing in bed, for now. The things i have seen this girl put these betas through, oh man, like nightmare scenarios, one time i had her bent over and her bf came over and tried to walk in on us LOL.. he’s a puny little guy so i didnt care.. he stormed out all pissed and she came back over and finished the job like a good girl. but oh man did i get a laugh out of that one, i just couldnt stop cracking up for some diabolical reason…but she still ended up leaving me for that afc and moved to washington with him, she needed a meal ticket, and he unbelievably took her back thinking she will be monogamous, oh man she is going to destroy that poor beta…oh well…but hey, good riddance, for now lol

    lesson learned: its FAR better to be on the this side of the door.

    A few years ago, i would have been devastated getting broken up with over and over, but nowadays it doesnt even phase me, i expect it because i will not let them move in with me or go down that road….EVER, it keeps them always coming back, but never sticking around too long. And everytime it happens i follow the 4-6 month rule of no attention whatsoever, and i have never had to wait that long for them to return and spread the legs, but it is a great rule of thumb.

    The other girl is actually really cool, always been super hott, she is 30 now and gained a tad bit of weight (the wall) but is still banging hot.. i have been fucking this girl for 10 years now and she still comes back! but she left me after about 3 months of solid bedroom aerobics, shes a good friend and we love each other, on a very deep level, so i expected and respected her choice to leave because she ‘just doenst want men in her life right now’, so i just told her best of luck! she just got out of a relationship with a total asshole alpha1.0.. he actually sent her like a book of hatemail so whenever she thinks of him, all she has to do is pull up all that bullshit he sent her… lesson: never send drama via text or email… EVER!

    Just two examples, these were my holiday FB/MLTR‘s and they left me just in time for national breakup month, and the thirsty hoes are out on the prowl!!

     

  72. In the west today, if you get married you are an IDIOT.  With no-fault divorce AND the financial burdens that the MAN will bare you are an idiot to ever consider getting married.

    Here is what will happen 100% of the time.  If you make more money than she does and you’ve been married for more than, in some cases, 5 years and certainly beyond 10 you WILL be paying alimony.  In the vast majority of cases, you WILL be paying child support since SHE will get residency rights and YOU will get to see your kids every other weekend IF you’re lucky and IF she stays close enough for that to occur.  She will get half of EVERYTHING even if you owned it prior to marriage.

    Example.  You as a single man purchased a house.  You lived there alone for 5 years and met what you thought was Mz Right.  Like a dumbarse you convinced yourself she was an angel and you got married to her.  So she moves into YOUR house and she slowly begins to make it HER house and you just happen to live with her.   10 years in she announces to you that she is not happy and she is suing you for divorce out of the blue.  Guess what that house that YOU owned and that YOU and YOU alone have made all the house payments… well her attorney informs you that your now demon bitch from hell soon to be ex-wife wants HALF the equity.

    You want to get ass raped then get married.  It’s not forever, its just your turn.

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