Oh boy. Get ready for some angry comments on this one. Having lost the culture war, today’s version of the right-wing get very angry (or should I say, more angry) when one of their gods are disputed in any way, even when the one making the observations agrees with most of what the person in question says…

Over the last several months, I’ve been bombarded with emails from many of you getting very excited about the new kid on the right-wing block, Jordan Peterson. Peterson has officially replaced Milo Yiannopoulos as the darling of the anti-SJW right since Milo’s fall from grace last year.

As always, since I’m not on the right or the left, and since I view the world through an objective lens rather than a political one, I view Jordan Peterson very differently than the right-wingers who think he’s the greatest thing ever and the left-wingers who despise him. However, before I can explain my position regarding him, I need to clear up a few misconceptions about the right-wing movement which most people either don’t understand, or understand but often forget.

The modern-day right-wing are actually three very different groups:

  1. The anti-SJW’s
  2. The standard right-wing
  3. The traditional conservatives, or “tradcons”

Most people, right and left both, tend to view these three groups as one big ball. In fact, these three groups are very, very different.

The anti-SJW’s are those guys who utterly hate the far left and SJW crowd, and love to create and consume content bashing said crowd, but have no strong political opinions of their own beyond “the left sucks!!!” These guys cum in their pants when Tantrum Trump infuriates left-wingers on Twitter. They cheer loudly when Milo or Ben Shapiro schools some far left feminist or socialist. However, in terms of actual, governmental policy that actually occurs in real life, they don’t really give a shit. They pretend they do, but they really don’t. If Tantrum Trump bombs yet another country or makes excuses about how he can’t build a wall, they just shrug, make some excuse about how Hillary would have been worse, re-iterate how fun Trump is on Twitter, and continue cheering for him. They’re all about pissing off the left, not about enacting any actual, right-wing policies.

The standard right-wing are quite different. These are the rank and file right-wing Republican voters. They are generally (though not always) for smaller government, lower taxes, lots of wars, and more modest social behavior. They robotically vote for the Republican guy no matter who he is or how much they hate him. Unlike the anti-SJW’s, they actually do give a shit about policy, have very specific “pro” political views (instead of the anti-SJW’s who are just against things) and feel that their policies and social norms should be enacted and followed.

The traditional conservatives, or tradcons are the zealots of the right wing. They are focused more on social issues than economic or political ones, and are fundamentally passionate about them, often to insane degrees. Their life advice is always the same:

1. Shut up, calm down, and “grow up.” Stop having all this sex and having fun and stuff. That’s immoral, childish, and/or nihilistic.

2. Be a Christian, and give yourself to God. It doesn’t fucking matter that the Bible doesn’t make any sense. It’s what’s best for society, so shut up.

3. Get legally, monogamously married (because that’s what a “real man does”), and if you’re white, marry someone else white (to “save the white race”). It doesn’t matter what the divorce rate is. Just shut the fuck up and get married because that’s what society needs.

4. Have lots and lots of kids because kids are the meaning of life, you have an obligation to your race, and you need kids and grand kids to take care of you and entertain you when you’re old (which is no longer true these days, but that’s what they believe).

5. Vote for Republicans (or other right-wingish parties) religiously, because they’re the only ones who can Save Us™. (Never mind the fact that Republican politicians like George W. Bush are the direct cause of the collapse of the USA, but that’s a discussion for another time, and a different blog.)

Tradcons mean well. They really do. Some of the men I’m close to in my personal life are tradcons, and I love and respect them. The problem is that their advice is calibrated for a man living in circa 1952 at the zenith of Western power, not a man living in the 21st Century in a crumbling society like Collapsing USA, Suicidal Europe, or Cuckoo Canada. Taking the above advice in 1952 was a pretty good idea. Taking that advice today means you’ll probably destroy your future.

That brings us back to Jordan Peterson. I like Peterson and have enjoyed many of his videos like many of you have. His points about the neo-Marxists and postmodernists are all accurate. His anti-SJW points and arguments are sound, and I agree with them all.

So far, so good.

Just one problem. He’s a closet tradcon.

Oh, don’t get me wrong. He’s a very smart tradcon. Unlike most tradcons (including many who post on my blogs from time to time) he doesn’t walk around screaming his head off about how you need to have kids for the good of society or how you need to give your life to Jesus. No, instead he makes lots of very rational, objective, sound arguments, and then every once in a while, his tradcon-ness slips out. A quick comment about how happiness isn’t important, a brief statement about how kids are the meaning of life, a quick side-comment about how porn is bad, and so on.

Now, if YOU are a tradcon, then by all means, go for it! Drink up Jordan Peterson as much as you want. He’s your guy.

But, if you’re an objective thinker like I am, you need to be a little careful. Be very aware that in the midst of Peterson’s sound, anti-socialist, anti-SJW arguments (all of which I agree with!) he laces them with a bunch of outdated tradcon bullshit. If all you do is absorb 100% of his content, you’ll miss it, but your subconscious mind will internalize it. If you take action on it later in life, you’re going to suffer the usual consequences of beta males and Alpha Male 1.0’s as they do things like go to college, get a “good job,” get traditionally married, crank out kids, go into debt, and stupidly hope that external solutions will solve all of their problems. You’ll end up in divorce court, spending thousands of dollars you don’t have trying to get visitation of your kids while being unable to ever retire.

But, if you keep your eyes and ears open while you listen to him or read his stuff, you’ll be aware of the tradcon stuff he occasionally throws in there, and then you’ll be fine.

Tradcons reading this are going to interpret this article as a hit piece on Jordan Peterson. It is not. For the third time, I really like the guy and watch his videos all the time on YouTube. I will probably get around to reading his book someday too. He’s great. I’m just warning you to be aware of his very subtle and very clever placing of tradcon programming in his content. If that’s not the kind of life you want (it certainly isn’t what I want), you need to be careful, and keep your ears open.

97 Comments on “Jordan Peterson

  1. BD I wish you were born in my country, Israel,  (or I would have born in the USA 🙂 )

    we need your MIND and your OBSERVATION here.

    we need the alpha male 2.0 here. I wish………

  2. I’ve certainly noticed the same themes to JBP’s talking points that you share here. Currently reading his 12 Rules for Life, and it’s rather evident there.

    He is a strong, clear, careful thinker, but has a habit of presenting his opinion as fact when it comes to these sorts of things.

    There’s a lot to be learned from him that I greatly enjoy, but his statement that the pursuit of life is not happiness is somewhat absurd and he has yet to present the argument for it to my satisfaction. Certainly not as well as Aristotle himself, when he claimed virtue -> fulfillment-> happiness.

    If one simply used the phrase “Long-Term, Consistent Happiness” (as you ofteo do) rather than simply Happiness, that refutes many of the good Doctors examples right there, from what I can see.

  3. This is so on point!

    When I watched this short video titled Jordan Peterson’s MOST EPIC SPEECH – The Truth About Life I thought about what you said about happiness and that after you have turned 20 you have already experienced the whole range of human emotions and that there is no reason why you should be purposely unhappy from time to time. This is like saying that you must go bankrupt every few years in order to keep the ability to cherish your wealth and freedom. This is complete BS advice for a man. For women, this advice is okay since the female psyche flourishes on a wide range of emotions. But the male psyche is all about improving.

    But I still enjoy his videos and have learned a lot.

  4. Yeah I agree. He makes lots of astute observations about SJWism, postmodernism, neomarxism, etc, but as soon as he talks about God/Jesus his IQ seems to suddenly drop 20 points. Of course I suppose that a SJW reading me would go “Hah! that’s because Jordan’s anti-SJWism is actually just as dumb, but you’re biased in its favor, so you only realize he’s dumb when he talks about stuff we both agree is stupid, like religion!” I suppose it isn’t impossible, but I don’t think so.

    I think I’m still waiting for a thinker with lots of public exposure that I can almost thoroughly get behind. Sam Harris might come relatively close, I think. But it’s still entertaining to watch Jordan; his two-hour interview with Camille Paglia (see youtube) was very enjoyable.

  5. Beware of him.

    He has an agenda.

    Even though he’s (obviously) one of the great mind of our era, if I could say one thing to him, then it definitely would be:
    “STICK YOUR RELIGION UP YOUR ASS!!!”

  6. At least he’s rational and reasonable at destroying the SJW arguments.
    Though yes, at times he seems to be tradcon to the point the point of no against sex before marriage.

    Yes the science supports marrying a female with zero sexual partners is better, and maybe gives a chance at 10 to 15 yrs marriage span but but modern times have changed that.

    I think he’s rational enough to eventually realise.

  7. I thought some his off topic views were a little bit…off for me.

     

    Im starting to be able to tell cause usually ill start feel guilty, or ill start to feel pain on whatever advice that is blaringly against something in my life…and trying to consider said advice in my brain is like a paradox that doesnt pay off.

     

    Great to watch othereise.

  8. I wish you were born in my country, Israel

    Its really sad to see Israelis systematically BECOME a version of the Nazis who killed them…but that’s how things are out there. Remember kids, its alright that Israeli terrorists are able to kill innocents because they’re “defending themselves.” Yuck. That being said, Israeli chicks are pretty attractive and wild.

    Beware of him. He has an agenda.

    Yup. They all do. Peterson may as well be Anita Sarkeesian with a cock n balls. Making sure we hold onto our precious ideals of collectivism, which has become our new official religion of course. Well that and Nihilism. What a great combination! Obsessing about external solutions that only help your group and not having much purpose behind it. Sounds like a plan to me lol.

  9. How is sorting oneself out advocating for collectivism? I agree that we are a materialistic and nihilistic consumer culture, though.

  10. @Marty: Joelsuf is doing the same thing as SJWs, maximally expanding the definition of a word (in this instance, “collectivism”) to the point of making 40 or 70% of people guilty of it. And now I’m doing a version of his “you are just like SJWs/tradcons”, lol.
    Not that he’s necessarily entirely wrong, but jack-hammering it in every single thread is starting to make it sound less clever than it did the first time you voiced that idea, Joel. Meaning no offense.

  11. I really like a lot of what he writes from 12 Rules For Life…  But boy he has a HUGE HARDON for the Bible.  Yeah you can interpret it as metaphorical and not-literal, and there’s a lot of wisdom from the process.  His thoughts on personal sacrifice are pretty good, which is about fulfilling your mission versus jerking to porn or pouring vodkas down your gullet…

    After a while it gets really tiring.  In 12 Rules for Life, after a solid lambasting of SJWs, he keeps going on and on about it.  Enough already, we get it, SJWs are retarded, now let’s move on.

    I’d say his content is generally pretty solid, and it’s good that someone is speaking against the SJW bullshit.  His agenda is to prevent men from giving up on our culture, like a lot of us Alpha 2’s, we’ll see what happens.

  12. I like Peterson but he’s all brain and not enough cock and balls.

    The way he ended the interview with Cun*y Newman – he was too nice. She ambushed him in the most grotesque way by being pleasant pre-interview and then switching into super-biyatch man-hater mode as soon as the lights went up. This was obviously to throw him off and intimidate him to the greatest extent possible and leave him to lose and try to regain his composure with the camera on him. This was pure evil and I take my hat off to the guy for not losing his cool. She didn’t realize that as a clinical psychologist, he is used to dealing with all kinds of sniper fire from his patients.

    However, he tends to overintellectualize things. Rather than citing studies and concepts, he should learn to be more forceful and talk on the everyday level. He needs to find his animal self. This is a problem with intellectuals and maybe Canadians. Can you imagine him giving the Braveheart speech. You can’t. He would be spouting off what Jung or Nietzsche said and twaddling his hands but he would not instill that sense of masculine strength that move’s mens hearts like (Gregory Peck playing) General MacArthur did. He doesn’t stir the heart and soul. He only gives some intellectually satisfying explanations but nothing that would make a girl wet her panties.

  13. I think tradcons annoy me the most out of that group of conservative types.  They don’t live in the current reality and just keep pining away from the 50’s.  The progressive pandora’s box has been opened wide and can’t be closed again in the west.  Trump was an anomaly, not a swing back to some old school conservative state.  The next election will most likely produce an extreme progressive like Bernie Sanders as the pendulum is already going that way.  There’s already been a bunch of historically conservative seats taken by liberals over the course of 2017/18, at least at the state level.

    Funny you wrote this post since I’ve recently seen some of his stuff and while I do agree with alot of what he says, he does let the tradcon stuff slip out and makes me take a pause.  Reminds me of that Prager U video they did about being a real man and marrying in a traditional way.

  14. It will probably just take the right people to provoke and lure out his true colors. He goes to bed at night seething in anger and hatred just as the rest of them do.

  15. JBP is a beast. He is a TRADCON, but not the same as American Republicans are. He seems more like he happens to be, but doesn’t really give a fuck if you are/are not.

    Overall I’d say he’s a friend to the Classical Liberals, Alpha 1.0 and Right Wingers obviously love him, and Right Leaning Libertarians.

    I’d say overall aside from him maybe not agreeing with all of our Alpha 2.0, but I’d still say he’s most def more a friend to us than Progressives or Hard Right Republicans. 

    I’d say his Self Help material is pretty dope, but I just ignore his TRADCON ideas. I learn a lot from him though.

    I’ll take TRADCON’s over the ANTI-SJW’s and the ALT-RIGHT tards though, some of them are just blind followers of Trump and if you disagree with him on any point they get downright combative with your because you won’t bend the knee to the Orange Fuhrer.

  16. Most LIBERALS hate SJWs.

    Most of those on the left-side of the spectrum actually believe in social liberties. Weed, sex, rock and roll, and oh yeah … saying whatever the fuck you want. The “safe spaces” and anti-white babies (usually rich kids with nothing better to do than score social media brownie points) … are just the younger crowd, and the middle left and moderates hate them as well.

     

    As for the right, yes the union on the right is general known. Greedy business asshole who just wants less taxes and regulations….. Christian Fundie who believe all sorts of dumb things about an invisible man, condoms, premarital sex, etc …. and the Duck Dynasty/ Walmart shopper who hates Mexicans and likes “trolling” young brown ‘gender-fluid’ SJWs … well naturally. I hate SJWs too but that guy especially does.

  17. Classical Liberals do hate SJW’s, they most def do. Dave Rubin for example doesn’t exactly roll out the welcome mate for them. Theses guys who advocate for Free Speech and Legal Weed, these guys like the Sex Positive Feminists are most def our friends.

    The Leftists and Progressives however Love and in many cases ARE the SJW’s/Snowflakes. These Whiny Motherfuckers can’t stop virtue signalling for all 200 genders lol.

    In practice the ANTI-SJW’s are De Facto Right Wing Snowflakes themselves. They think their Alpha’s when they’re really beta AF. I know you’ve seen em.

  18. It all boils down to; is the “pursuit of happiness”, your personal happiness, the end all, be all of life? If so, keep your head down, do not engage society at large, make money, bang lots of hot women and have fun. Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, for periods of life, I’m all for it! That said, most men do seek something deeper, meaningful in life. You can ask, was Abe Lincoln happy? Did Teddy Roosevelt, Winston Churchill, Mother Theresa, TE Lawrence live happy lives? By most accounts, no. But they lived profoundly important, meaningful lives because they chose to be “in the arena”, not often a happy place. Taken from the other side, Edward VIII chose personal happiness above all else. He abdicated the throne to marry his love.  In the end, he was despised by his country (for that and being a Nazi sympathizer) and died having lived an utterly pointless life of frivolity.  Was he happy? I’m not sure there are any correct answers. Every man is different. I would guess for a man to be truly happy, he must pursue things beyond his own personal gratification.

  19. Hey Blackdragon.. 

    What’s your take JBP on the Alpha Scale?

    He’s def not a beta..

    Being he’s for sure a TRADCON, I was thinking this for a while BTW.. This makes him a unique Alpha 1.0, being he’s nothing like our American Alpha 1.0’s  who want to FORCE  their agenda on you. I can’t quite say he’s an Alpha 2.0 either though.

    If Canada had any brains they’d make him Prime Minister and save “PeopleKind”.

    I’d say he’s more of an Ally to us than a guy like Shapiro, even though I love Shapiro he’s most def not a boon to our cause. 

  20. He’s pretty open about his tradcon views when he’s not doing the anti-sjw stuff – ie,he’s got hours of lectures on the biblical stories, and speaking at conservative conferences – so it’s failure of categorization to call him “closeted” tradcon.

     

    It’d be interesting to listen to you debate a smart, articulate and not super emotional tradcon. Though that debate with Stefan Molyneaux isn’t going to happen it looks like.

  21. He clearly isn’t on the right politically. He is closer to a classic liberal as opposed to modern american liberal.

    Sexually speaking he is ‘conservative’ but it this context the word conservative just means fearful.

    Bearing in mind how extreme the bell curve is right now with people fleeing to either one extreme or the other he is clearly a moderate voice operating in the middle part of the bell curve which one could simply label ‘sane’.

     

  22. When I watched this short video titled Jordan Peterson’s MOST EPIC SPEECH – The Truth About Life I thought about what you said about happiness and that after you have turned 20 you have already experienced the whole range of human emotions and that there is no reason why you should be purposely unhappy from time to time. This is like saying that you must go bankrupt every few years in order to keep the ability to cherish your wealth and freedom. This is complete BS advice for a man.

    Correct. But that viewpoint is cherished by both the traditional right and the far left, that being regularly unhappy is somehow a good thing.

    I really like a lot of what he writes from 12 Rules For Life…  But boy he has a HUGE HARDON for the Bible.

    Yup. Tradcon.

    Reminds me of that Prager U video they did about being a real man and marrying in a traditional way.

    Yes! I was thinking of that myself as I was writing this article. “It doesn’t matter what the divorce rate is. It doesn’t matter that the family courts are against men. It doesn’t matter that the costs of having kids and a traditional wife have skyrocketed beyond your ability to pay. Just fucking get married you selfish, immature asshole.”

    Most LIBERALS hate SJWs.

    Incorrect. Where are the thousands of YouTube videos featuring liberals bashing the shit out of SJW’s? Other than TJ Kirk and maybe Sargon (I’m not sure if Sargon is liberal anymore), I don’t see them, and that should tell you something. At best, liberals mumble something to SJW’s that they should let conservatives speak at colleges (or something) but that’s about it.

    You’re saying that you hate SJW’s, but you are not “most liberals.”

    It all boils down to; is the “pursuit of happiness”, your personal happiness, the end all, be all of life? If so, keep your head down, do not engage society at large, make money, bang lots of hot women and have fun. Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, for periods of life, I’m all for it! That said, most men do seek something deeper, meaningful in life.

    Correct, that’s why I keep harping on men to create a personal Mission, something that brings deep meaning to a man’s life.

    Being happy and having deep meaning are not mutually exclusive. That’s something the tradcons don’t understand.

    What’s your take JBP on the Alpha Scale?

    Mild Alpha 1.0.

    It’d be interesting to listen to you debate a smart, articulate and not super emotional tradcon.

    Not super emotional tradcon? Name one. Even Ben Shapiro loses his shit and sounds like an idiot when the he’s cornered on social issues. The guy doesn’t use an electric razor below his chin line because of his fucking religion,which is why he often has huge red marks on his neck.

    Just look at what happened when he tried to defend monogamy:

    His entire argument against monogamy not being natural: “SO???”

    Yeah, good stuff, Ben. Gotta love that Societal Programming.

  23. I can’t listen to Ben Shaprio talk… hes in his head every second of every day and talks in this high-pitch nasal know it all tone.

     

    Jordan Peterson is neat, people are impressed by his ability to define things… but like a lot of “academics” anything he doesn’t understand or is wrong about, he skips over with the… “Well, I’ve thought about that and it’s wrong” and just blows past it.

  24. As far as I know, Peterson has yet to go after women in any meaningful way. That’s tradcon pedestalization and is easily the single most destructive element in our society right now. He’s all “man up” when the subject comes around to it. He can talk about a million different things but when the core manosphere issues arise, he’s “Man Up/Win her approval” so I can’t back him on that at all. I have a feeling that he wouldn’t approve of a 60 year old man eating teen ass in Brazil so %$&# him ultimately.

  25. I enjoy a lot of the content that this latest wave of “intellectual dark web” guys pump out, but none of them come close to the sadly missed mastery of argument wrapped in charm that was Christopher Hitchens.

    I enjoy a lot of Jordan’s stuff but imagine him sitting down with Hitch…

     

     

  26. Blackdragon,

     

    Thanks for this.  It is amazing how many on the right think that a new person, saying the same things, means that suddenly there is going to be change.

    Plus, they think that pointing this out means one is disagreeing with his views.  That is not the case either, but the right easily falls into ‘if you don’t fully approve, you are against us’.

    Note that this is worse than working hard at an external solution (already a low-return approach).  They want someone ELSE to create the external solution.  This, among other things, is why MRAs don’t do any actual activism (i.e. they are below even those who work towards an external solution).

     

  27. Hey BD,

    After reading your articles for over a year, I have concluded that you give sound advice,are rational and walk the walk. Were this rational and calm during your beta days? If you werent, how did you transform your emotionalism to being rational or do you have any advice for younger guys(early 20s) to stay calm and think logically?

  28. JBP is a conservative and that is a good thing.  Unless you like lawlessness and “living in the jungle,” thank the conservatives for giving you a civilized place to run game.

    But JBP has very little sexual experience.  And the way to critique him is to note that he thinks non-relationship sex is “meaningless.”  And that is where he is (sometimes) wrong.

    If you think a players life is full of “meaningless” sex, then you agree with him… Say so.

    If you’re a player, are out to fuck a bunch of girls, but don’t always find that “meaningless,” that is the place to get after JBP.

    JBP understands meaning (he is a psychologist first).  A lot of what I am doing before/during/after a seduction is about finding some kind of meaning… And looking at the meaning for the girls.

    JBP would respect that argument… I just don’t think he’s heard it.  And it a more complex and interesting POV for a man of game than “enjoy the decay.”

  29. It is amazing how many on the right think that a new person, saying the same things, means that suddenly there is going to be change.

    To be fair to them, it’s more about they hope and wish and fantasize there will be change rather than expecting it will actually happen. For example, lately I’ve noticed that the Trump supporters are, amazingly, starting to come clean and admit they really never expected him to make America great again. They just got excited.

    As usual, the issue is not stupidity, it’s irrationality.

    What is your deep meaning, Blackdragon?

    I largely keep that to myself, but my Mission and the meaning of my life is very clearly defined, and brings me great fulfillment. I talk about a piece of my Mission in the first Alpha 2.0 Community podcast, but not the entire thing.

    After reading your articles for over a year, I have concluded that you give sound advice,are rational and walk the walk. Were this rational and calm during your beta days?

    In my later twenties, somewhat. In my early to mid-twenties, no. I was just as angry and reactive as many other younger guys you see out there (including on my blogs), if not more so.

    The twenties is the hardest decade in life for a man; that’s why younger men tend to be so hair-trigger and reactive, and why the majority of men who are really angry tend to be under under age 30.

    If you werent, how did you transform your emotionalism to being rational or do you have any advice for younger guys(early 20s) to stay calm and think logically?

    I’ve been asked that question before and I don’t have a solid answer. It’s not something I tried to do, I just did it. Somewhere around my mid-twenties I realized two things:

    1. That reacting with anger towards common occurrences in life would never make me happy.

    2. That NO ONE was going to EVER solve ANY my problems for me. If anyone was going to solve them, it HAD to be ME.

    Those two things pushed me into a more rational, and happy, direction in life.

  30. Trump was an anomaly, not a swing back to some old school conservative state.  The next election will most likely produce an extreme progressive like Bernie Sanders as the pendulum is already going that way.

    All part of the plan, my dude. The plan? Make the US like the USSR in the 40s. At first we’re gonna have a kind, beta, and harmless president similar to Comrade Bernie, but after him? Hooboy. Get ready. The 2030s US is going to be eerily similar to the USSR during Stalin. Great Purges, Quotas, ALL that stuff will be part of the US.

    But that’s just how it goes. History repeats itself more frequently and more consistently than we give it credit for.

    How is sorting oneself out advocating for collectivism?

    Old school western religion, as well as the dogmatic thinking that it has been a champion of, is collectivism to the core. Simply put, the trad-cons seek vengeance for their own kind just like progressives do. Peterson clearly is seeking vengeance for his own kind. As does Yiannopolos. And Shapiro. If you attempt to determine what is best for a large group of people, you are a collectivist.

    Joelsuf is doing the same thing as SJWs, maximally expanding the definition of a word (in this instance, “collectivism”) to the point of making 40 or 70% of people guilty of it.

    40% to 70%? I wish it was that LOW haha. Its more like 80-90%. Even BD has similar observations. As he has stated here. The External Solution is our rock as a society and now Collectivism has become a religion. Everything you come across in the entertainment industry revolves around “making a stand” or “banding together” or “uniting for change” or any other phrase they can use to get the hiveminds to existentially kill the individual.

    Now like BD, I have zero emotional stake in this and I’m not going to hypocritically “rise up” against collectivism. But I see nothing hypocritical in making others aware of it.

    jack-hammering it in every single thread is starting to make it sound less clever than it did the first time you voiced that idea, Joel. 

    Holy Christ, I did not know that dragging collectivism through the mud was seen as clever nowadays. What can I say? I just really dislike collectivism! lol

  31. Unless you like lawlessness and “living in the jungle,” thank the conservatives for giving you a civilized place to run game.

    No thank you. I’m not an anarchist (I’m a minarchist libertarian, not an anarchist), but I would far prefer to live in a modern-day anarcho-capitalist culture than a conservative one, if those were the only two choices presented to me.

    JBP would respect that argument… I just don’t think he’s heard it.  And it a more complex and interesting POV for a man of game than “enjoy the decay.

    I agree, but to be fair to me, “enjoy the decline” (a phrase I stole from Aaron Clarey and who deserves full credit for it) is an incomplete picture of my view. My full viewpoint is: “Find a Mission that brings great meaning to you, forget about what society wants, exploit society’s failings as best you can for your personal benefit, focus on yourself and your loved ones, and in your spare time, enjoy the decline.”

  32. I’d never heard of JP. I tuned into some of his YT broadcasts. He strikes me as a word surfer. He rides on the emotions of words. There’s very little underneath. All hail Blackdragon, whose words have specific meaning.

  33. I feel the same way about Stefan Molyneux. He’s pretty smart, has some good right wing arguments, but still has some outdated ideals.

  34. As with almost all Trad-Cons, Peterson is exceptionally Blue Pill when it comes to women. His perception of women is colored by to factors. First, his only real “hands on” experience with women comes from his wife whom he met, developed a soul-mate ONEitis for as a 7 year old boy. He waxes romantic about this in a few of his videos when asked about the best ways to meet and marry a mythical “quality woman”.  As his story goes, his wife identified (identifies?) as a feminist and had Jordan pegged as a Beta from the time they were adolescents (I also believe she’s a few years older than him too).

    In many ways Peterson is still that 7 year old boy with respect to how he sees and defers to women today. This is the main source of conflict between himself and the MGTOW movement he disparaged – MGTOWs & TRP reveal a side of women he has no frame of reference for. Since he’s ego-invested in his marriage (scarcity mentality goes hand in hand with the soul mate myth) any faction showing him the realities of women today is an attack on his ego.

    Secondly, Peterson’s entire world is built around Jung and Nietzsche’s philosophies. He is painfully domain dependent on Jung to the point that you can make a drinking game around how many times he says or cites Jung in any given video. Jung is his ‘real’ Christ. Thus, his beliefs about men and women stem from the fanciful imagination of an early psychologist whose ‘Game’ was about psychoanalyzing the women he wanted to bang and then make into ‘psychologists’ themselves. Peterson endlessly cites Jungian archetypes as if they were proven facts and not theoretical constructs. This is yet one more reason he butt heads with the MGTOWs and TRP; objective analysis and risk assessment of interacting with women today challenges those archetypes of women.

    Peterson is the champion that all stripes of conservatives have wished for in order to fight SJWs so it’s no wonder they’ll defend him from even the slightest objective critique. His Vice interview (though doctored and edited) showed a few chinks in his armor as well. It’s not the SJWs he needs to fear for his downfall from, his self-destruction will come from the inside out. He’s an older college professor who stumbled into his new role – he’ll openly admit to his stardom as being surprising and overwhelming – but he’s found a niche and I think his popularity says more about the ‘lost boys’ generation needing a father figure than anything he organically represents to them.

    We did a two-hour live chat about Peterson here:

    https://therationalmale.com/2018/02/12/no-prescriptions/

  35. I feel the same way about Stefan Molyneux. He’s pretty smart, has some good right wing arguments, but still has some outdated ideals.

    I agree.

    his only real “hands on” experience with women comes from his wife whom he met, developed a soul-mate ONEitis for as a 7 year old boy. He waxes romantic about this in a few of his videos when asked about the best ways to meet and marry a mythical “quality woman”.  As his story goes, his wife identified (identifies?) as a feminist and had Jordan pegged as a Beta from the time they were adolescents

    Amazing! I wasn’t aware of this history, but it explains a lot about his viewpoints. Interesting.

    i am an INTJ

    Me too. Welcome to the club.

    what helps you focus on doing and getting results rather than perfectionism?

    I’m not a perfectionist at all so that doesn’t factor into it. The answer is: reminding myself of my goals on a regular basis (and why I want them) and reminding myself of what my life will look like years down the road if I don’t hit my goals.

  36. In the end, the guys who explain american culture in a way that I agree with the most are older expats.  They got burned by their ex wives, sold out by politicans, or whatever, so they took their savings and traveled to a place where men are treated better.  We can hypothesize all day long about the potential the US had, who’s to blame, how we can fix it in fifty years, etc.

    The old expats put their money where their mouth was.  Many of them saw this shit coming decades early.

     

     

  37. Everything you say about Peterson here is correct, BD. He has been a valuable ally to us Free Speech absolutists and a voice of sanity for everyone who knows there are only two genders, but he ruins everything by being such a prudish tradcon. It’s absolutely disgusting!

    Here is a video of him that made me want to vomit. He suggests slut shaming and the abolition of casual sex as a means to fight rape. Seriously, it almost made me puke:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMm8N7rrJUM

     

  38. @JackOutsideTheBox

    He is def an Ally to us. He is a Tradcon, that’s a given, but much different than the American Tradcons and guys we have on the Right. He isn’t really like all guy disney or anything.

    It’s like he’s redpill, but choses to be Monogamous or just got married and found out later, but stayed committed. I hate the Red pill/Purple pill/Blue pill jargon, but I had to make a point there.

    In the end he’s in the public eye, who knows what the fuck he does in private! The Tradcons are the worst usually. The most internet porn is consumed in Utah of all places lol..

    I feel like we are judging him harshly in this thread though. You’ve gotta remember we are a small group of men!Even though he’s a Tradcon.. The last thing open minded Outcome Independent guys like us want to be of a guy like him is intolerant, like the American Far Leftists of today are of guy like Pence (not that he’s anything like Pence, but I’m just making a point.)

  39. But here’s where I disagree with you:

    Peterson has officially replaced Milo Yiannopoulos as the darling of the anti-SJW right since Milo’s fall from grace last year.

    Milo has not “fallen from grace.” He was just falsely accused of pedophilia, which didn’t go anywhere once everyone discovered what he really said and saw how retarded of an accusation that was.

    He’s just finished his college tour and now has a subscription based Internet radio show. I think he’s going back to speak at Berkley in the spring.

    What really pisses me off though is how Milo has shown some hypocritical tradcon tendencies as well (although not nearly as bad and blatant as Peterson).

    For example, Milo has said that “Catholicism is right about everything,” how everyone should be a Christian, and how horrible it is that the U.S. Supreme Court is enforcing the First Amendment by banning Christian displays from government property. Seriously? How the fuck can you promote cultural libertarianism and sex-positivism (which Milo constantly does, to his credit) and, at the same time, call for a return to “Christian values?” It’s hypocritical bullshit!

    I was also shocked that Milo is in favor of male genital mutilation because, in his words, “you don’t have to have these things in your mouth, but I do.” Seriously Milo? That’s your defense for a human rights violation? Sigh.

     

     

  40. He isn’t really like all guy disney or anything.

    Yes he is! He’s all about traditional monogamous marriage. Plus he’s fucked only one woman in his life and advises men against casual sex, tells them to man up, and turns into a gentle puppy around women. That’s definitely guy Disney!

    It’s like he’s redpill, but choses to be Monogamous or just got married and found out later, but stayed committed.

    He’s red pill on SJWism, post-modernism, and cultural Marxism. He’s blue pill on sex.

    In the end he’s in the public eye, who knows what the fuck he does in private!

    It’s not about what he does in private (although I think fucking someone other than his wife would do him immeasurable good). It’s about what he’s telling men to do in public. Did you watch the video I linked to above? He’s trying to publicly discourage casual sex and is in favor of slut shaming, for fuck sake!

    I feel like we are judging him harshly in this thread though. You’ve gotta remember we are a small group of men!Even though he’s a Tradcon.. The last thing open minded Outcome Independent guys like us want to be of a guy like him is intolerant,

    Can you pick out the PC buzzword you just used in the above paragraph?

    I’m absolutely “intolerant” of a slut shamer who wants to actively discourage casual sex, regardless of his own private life. I’ll support him on the issues that he’s clearly red pill about, but I’ll oppose him on his 1950s Disney!

    like the American Far Leftists of today are of guy like Pence (not that he’s anything like Pence, but I’m just making a point.)

    Pence is an even more laughable prude who deserves all the laughter we can muster for his sex-negativism. Unlike Peterson, Pence isn’t even an ally to any aspect of the red pill movement. He’s just a full on Disney chivalrist!

     

     

  41. Yes the science supports marrying a female with zero sexual partners is better,

    No, it doesn’t. Science does not even acknowledge absurd social constructs like marriage. Getting married to anyone – regardless of sexual partners – is seeking validation from the State and inviting the government into your bedroom. Marriage is the bedrock of “external validation theory.” No one needs to have their sex life validated by a large audience (and least of all, by the State).

    Practice internal validation only and stay away from primitive rituals. And if anyone calls your children “illegitimate” just because you don’t have a piece of paper from the government, laugh profusely!

    and maybe gives a chance at 10 to 15 yrs marriage span but but modern times have changed that.

    Yeah, a miserable monogamous marriage between two low sex drive people, bordering on asexuality! If a woman is a virgin on her wedding night, I shudder to think what her sex life will be like with her husband. She’ll probably give him sex only on his birthday and Valentine’s Day, unless his birthday is on Valentine’s Day!

    I mean, the fact that she even has a wedding makes me lose some respect for her, but zero sex partners beforehand? Yuck! That’s Taliban territory!

     

  42. Trump was an anomaly, not a swing back to some old school conservative state.

    No, he wasn’t an anomaly.

    First of all, Trump isn’t a tradcon. Never was. He’s extremely libertarian/liberal on social and cultural issues. He was elected because people are sick of political correctness, white guilt, self-hatred, and the cultural authoritarianism of the SJWs. That’s not an anomaly. That’s sane people saying “Enough” when blue haired bimbos tell you that you can’t order “black coffee” at Starbucks because you must say “coffee without milk” or you’re a racist!

    The next election will most likely produce an extreme progressive like Bernie Sanders as the pendulum is already going that way.

    That depends. SJWs, and anti-white garbage dumps like Buzzfeed, are already ramping up the white guilt and PC outrage. The more they do that, the less the Democrats stand a chance in 2020. We’re not dealing here with smart or politically savvy people. They can’t help it. They’re already setting up Trump’s reelection with their “kill whitey” bullshit!

    Then the Democratic candidate will surely run on the slogan “Checking America’s Privilege,” while Trump runs on “Hindsight is 2020.” I think I know which slogan will play better with the voters.

    There’s already been a bunch of historically conservative seats taken by liberals over the course of 2017/18, at least at the state level.

    Liberal or Democrat doesn’t necessarily mean SJW though.

     

  43. hates Mexicans and likes “trolling” young brown ‘gender-fluid’ SJWs …

    Some of us don’t hate Mexicans. We just hate illegal Mexican imperialists who are trying to colonize our country and convert it to Mexico (linguistically, culturally, and then politically) without firing a single shot.

    And I very much enjoy trolling all gender fluid SJW retards, regardless of color, thank you very much!

     

     

  44. JBP is a conservative and that is a good thing.

    What an absurd thing to say!

    Unless you like lawlessness and “living in the jungle,” thank the conservatives for giving you a civilized place to run game.

    Uhh, we’re not anarchists here (except for Joelsuf who lives in our attic screaming “COLLECTIVISM” all day while the rest of us get on with our lives).

    Also, conservatives are precisely against seduction and game.

     

     

  45. Seems to me SJWs and Tradcons are just different flavors of SP laden bullshit.  Whatever flavor one chooses, it’s just a buffer so you can sleep better at night.

    Some red pill authors have tapped into that anger and use it to sell books to Incels and the Frivorced, but they come up light on actually providing solutions to the root problem:

    Societal programming is keeping you from having the life you really want!

    Thats the difference between BD and everyone else in the sphere.  Nobody else talks about the prison, and they therefore have no idea that they can walk away from it in a moment because they are afraid some asshole is going to shame them. SP hates outcome indifference. It loves shame. JP and those SJWs are selling shame.

    Most people would have better outcomes if they worked slightly harder at rooting out that faulty programming and less hard at finding something to be pissed off about (because most of that is based in SP too).

  46. I’ll take TRADCON’s over the ANTI-SJW’s

    Really? You’ll take slut shaming tradcons over sane people? Wow!

    and the ALT-RIGHT tards though,

    The Alt Right people ARE the tradcons. Hyper-tradcons.

    In practice the ANTI-SJW’s are De FactoRight Wing Snowflakes themselves.

    Some are, sure. But you’re describing tradcons again. Not all of us are tradcons though. I myself am a proud anti-SJW and a sex-positive Alt Lite libertarian. Most of the anti-SJWs (who aren’t tradcons) are just sane people. I call them NHBs (normal human beings).

    I’d say he’s more of an Ally to us than a guy like Shapiro,

    Man, don’t get me started on Shapiro! He’s Mr. Super Tradcon! He keeps bragging how he and his wife lost their virginities to each other (my condolences, dude), how all healthy people should follow his example, and how men need to “stop being pigs.” Just more tradcon trash.

    Plus, he’s a hypocrite for calling the Alt Right “human debris” because they want a white ethno-state and connect culture with genetics, when he supports a Jewish ethno-state in Israel (which absolutely connects culture with genetics), where it’s illegal for a biological Jew to marry a biological non-Jew.

    Thanks for the hilarious hypocrisy, Ben! But hey, I’d rather him be president next (which he probably will be) than Lisa Simpson.

     

  47. Peterson clearly is seeking vengeance for his own kind. As does Yiannopolos. And Shapiro.

    How the fuck is Milo seeking vengeance for anyone? He just hates cultural authoritarianism and wants to smash political correctness! He has *some* tradcon tendencies, which is bad, but mostly he is for freedom and individualism! Is he not anarchist enough for you?

    Hey BD, can you do an article like this one about Milo? You and I haven’t yelled at each other in a while and I miss that! 🙂

     

     

  48. I follow politics religiously and I truly have never heard of the guy.

    That means you follow only mainstream politics. Get your head out of the blue pill media (which tells only 10 percent of the story) and spend more time on the Internet. Even youtube will tell you more than the mainstream. Peterson has his own youtube channel. I strongly suggest you subscribe to some red pill youtubers, like Milo Yiannopoulos.

     

     

  49. Jack,

    Why would anyone waste their time on any of those saps?

    I see SJW types or somebody protesting or Milo doing his thing and I’m like….what a angry, unhappy fool.

    Anymore, I try to focus on stuff that adds to my bottom line, improves my health, or makes my life easier or more pleasurable.

    However, shapiros sister is a piece and apparently sex positive so there’s that….

  50. JBP ain’t blue pill on sex. He has lots of videos saying doing be a beta male if you want women and ‘why women like bad boys’ and the importance of being a dominant and capable man if you want to attract women,

    Spot on.

    Maybe he just has a low sex drive though and prefers work to sex.

  51. Hey BD, can you do an article like this one about Milo?

    Nope. He’s relevance has passed. Hell, Jordan Peterson barely warranted a blog post from me.

    You and I haven’t yelled at each other in a while and I miss that!

    Yeah I know you like drama. Weren’t you going to start your own blog? You can have all the drama you want over there.

  52. So nothing included in this article to back up the claim made against him? Obviously we can listen to his various talks and find out directly, but if you are going to label somebody, and in the process insinuate that it is a negative quality, something to back up these claims would be nice.

  53. Blackdragon..

     

    It’s funny the more you look at comments the more you see people have a hard time letting go of OBW, personal biases, and overall baggage that holds them back from Alpha 2.0 (not that it takes one day).

    It really does take experiences after embarking on the journey of becoming an Alpha 2.0and witnessing things in relationships, politics, government, as well as your own reading books and interactions to really make the Change.

    And the resistance you encounter from Betas, Alpha 1.0’s, and Dominant/over 33 Women

    TIP for anyone reading. If you’re having a hard time and still resisting stuff Caleb say read How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World. I haven’t finished it yet, but it’ll help. As well as Robert Ringer

  54. Nope. He’s relevance has passed.

    You don’t need to insult my boy Milo like that. His college tour may have ended, but his book “Dangerous” is still flying off the shelves and his next one “Despicable” (about Hollywood pedophilia) will probably put him on the best seller list again. Also, did I mention he’s going back to Berkley in the spring?

    Yeah I know you like drama.

    I like passionate debate. Maybe I just miss being in a courtroom.

    Weren’t you going to start your own blog?

    Yes, and I do apologize to all the people whom I said that I’d do it by January.

    Very unexpected and chaotic things have happened in my life concerning my life’s mission to save the world from authoritarian prudes that the blog side of it had to be delayed.

    I’m getting more and more involved with the Alt Lite and organizing people for very specific cultural infiltrations within SJW AND Alt Right circles for the purposes of sabotage (I narrowly avoided being spotlighted by CNN last week), so it’s taking way longer than predicted (especially striking the correct balance between activism and anonymity).

    The new projected date for my blog’s creation is April or May (ish), after everything else is in place.

    My blog will be just one out of five branches of my plan to restore sanity, individualism, and cultural libertarianism to America. The other four denominations involve organizing Alt Lite cells, which will include meeting and befriending just a few influential people (Milo being one of them).

    You can have all the drama you want over there.

    Well, here’s one promise: It certainly won’t be a polite place!

     

  55. @ Jack Outside the Box

    You regard yourself as a Sex Positivist, but you are less so than me!!! I know that in a legal sense you would allow prostitution, but it emotionally disgusts you, and you socially ridicule plus chastise  those you engage in it. Prostitution neither emotionally disgusts me nor do I ridicule plus chastise those who engage in it. True sex positivism means knowing that each individual person is different, and that increasing men’s sexual options as well as opportunities to have sex improves men’s overall happiness in this world, and legal affordable and available prostitution does this. Homosexual Sex especially between men disgusts me. Let me qualify that last sentence by saying that bisexual women who engage in lesbian sex and then have sex with me is my favorite kind of sex because reverse gangbangs are usually my favorite kind of sex, but lesbians and bisexual women who engage in sex before me and refuse to have sex with me anger, disappoint and disgust me. Homosexual male (gay)sex disgusts me because I vomited the first time I saw it which I never had any intention to see but accidently saw anyway. All I can say is that I am completely a heterosexual(strait) man. What is your sexual orientation? Why do you do ridicule and chastise those who engage in prostitution? What disgusts you from most to least, amateur homosexual sex between men(gay sex), amateur homosexual sex between women or professional heterosexual sex between a male customer, john, and a female prostitute, whore and why?

    I am surprised that you don’t understand Milo Yiannapolis better because you said that you were raised Catholic just like I was. Milo Yiannapolis and I even though he is gay and I am strait are sexual sinners as we have engaged in fornication and not married sex with our wives because we never had wives according to the Catholic Church teachings on the manner. Milo Yiannapolis and I still consider ourselves Catholic unlike you. Because Milo Yiannapolis and I are Catholics and you are not, we understand that there is a difference between 1)what is best for society(that is most individual human beings in it) and what makes most individuals in society happy, 2)what is best to make oneself holy enough to enter heaven to be in direct union with God for eternal afterlife happiness as well as have a profound life, and 3)what makes the individual person happy in this life alone. Even Blackdragon understands the difference between number 1) and number 3) better than you do. and he is a former Catholic just like you are a former Catholic. I understand that number 1) and number 2) align better in the sexual marketplace better than any other combination. I know that most men and women would be better off and long term happier having successful monogamous marriages, but that world is gone and was last seen in the 1950s and was around at least 1,500 years before 1950AD. There is no good for society anymore and it will be a long time before the good returns to society if it ever does and it will be after I am dead as I am 50 years old. Most men like myself could do all three up until the 1950s. Now one must choose between number 2) and number 3) as number 1) is gone. The problem is that number 2) and number 3) has been made exceedingly difficult to attain because number 1) is gone for most men. Most men would be happiest attaining the goals set by Blackdragon in this world, but the problem is many will fail no matter how hard they try  and very many more will not even try. Marriage and/ or Cohabitation with women is too risky and even having consensual sex with women has become riskier with the #ME Too Movement etc. Even Blackdragon admitted that if every man tried his system that 10% would be Alpha 2s, 40 % would be Alpha 1s and 50% would be Betas. That says to me that monogamous marriage and available prostitution would make most men happy in this world because of Briffaults law, Hypergamy and female solipism

  56. >> main source of conflict between himself and the MGTOW movement he disparaged – MGTOWs

    MGTOWs, LOLz. They don’t need anyone’s help looking weak and disappointing.

    But that does bring up a great point: JBP’s most common prescription for men is to accept responsibility.  I’m sure the Kings of the MGTOWs would have a problem with that…

    But men of game have no quarrel with a call to responsibility.  “Breaking free” is about taking responsibility for your own life.  If you worked on your game to have any improved success in your sexual opportunities, you get that.  If you grew as a man to get there, you know what it means to “clean your room,” and you know that is a basic requirements to be an attractive man (or have any self respect).  JBP is all over that in a way the neckbeard Quitters would rather not face.

    JBP is wrong about monogamy for the small class of men that have multiple women in their lives…he doesn’t get it.  And he is right about that for the bulk of men… That can’t get a date, let alone spin plates.  If most men are monogamous (which would be an improvement for them), that does no harm to players.  JBP is no threat there.

    And while we’re talking drinking games…

    What if we listened to Chicken Little talk and “made a drinking game around how many times he says MUH-HYPERGAMY!!!!!”

    We’d get hammered.

     

     

     

    talkabout guys with only one concept to schlep around…

     

     

     

     

    defend

    MGTOWs

  57. >> main source of conflict between himself and the MGTOW movement he disparaged – MGTOWs

    MGTOWs, LOLz. They don’t need anyone’s help looking weak and disappointing.

    But that does bring up a great point: JBP’s most common prescription for men is to accept responsibility.  I’m sure the Kings of the MGTOWs would have a problem with that…

    But men of game have no quarrel with a call to responsibility.  “Breaking free” is about taking responsibility for your own life.  If you worked on your game to have any improved success in your sexual opportunities, you get that.  If you grew as a man to get there, you know what it means to “clean your room,” and you know that is a basic requirement to be an attractive man (and a path to solid inner game).  JBP is all over that in a way the neckbeard Quitters would rather not face.

    JBP is wrong about monogamy for the small class of men that have multiple women in their lives…he doesn’t get it.  And he is right about that for the bulk of men… That can’t get a date, let alone spin plates.  If most men are monogamous (which would be an improvement for them), that does no harm to players.  JBP is no threat there.

    And while we’re talking drinking games…

    What if we listened to Chicken Little talk and “made a drinking game around how many times he says MUH-HYPERGAMY!!!!!”

    We’d get hammered.

  58. Why would anyone waste their time on any of those saps?

    Because abolishing political correctness is necessary for the proper flourishing of individual freedom on a decent scale.

    I see SJW types or somebody protesting or Milo doing his thing and I’m like….what a angry, unhappy fool.

    Really? You think Milo is an angry, unhappy fool? Wow! Then you obviously haven’t paid any attention to him. He’s the one who is precisely rebelling against the angry, unhappy fools.

    When my blog is ready, I will be articulating the 10 principles of the Alt Lite. Just as a spoiler:

    Principle #1: The sound of laughter must be protected:

    Summery: Whereas the military might be considered the “last line of defense” for freedom, the first line of defense are comedians. To paraphrase Milo: The one thing that tyrants hate the most is the sound of laughter because they can’t control it. Laughter is the first cultural sign of freedom and the very first thing which makes wannabe dictators shriek with hate! Thus, the first weapon, and the first resort, when fighting for a free society is humor. The opposite of humor is political correctness.

    Alt Lite First Imperative: Protect the Comedians!

    Anymore, I try to focus on stuff that adds to my bottom line, improves my health, or makes my life easier or more pleasurable.

    Those are very worthy goals and I agree with, and support, all of them. But your life won’t be very pleasurable, easy, or profitable if this country becomes North Korea!

    How will you improve your “bottom line” if you are forced to give away your money to a corrupt government under penalty of being thrown into a den of anal rape?

    How will your life be pleasurable if all sex is redefined as rape?

    How will you make money if you are put out of business because you told the wrong joke on Twitter?

    See, that’s where I come in, and those like me. No need to say thank you. Keep enjoying your life. Just stay out of our way so we can make that possible.

     

     

     

     

  59. @ Jack Outside the Box

    I forgot to add this to the above post. Homosexual (Gay)Sex between men disgust me the most and all the time. Whether or not Homosexual (Lesbian) Sex disgusts me or not depends on the situation. Professional sex between a customer man, john, and a woman prostitute, whore, do not disgust me at all.  I have given you the reasons why in the above post. I regard Sex Positivism as having mutual consensual sex for any reason between 2 adults of sound mind for any reason and minimal consent, not maximal or enthusiastic consent. I also regard sex positivism as increasing sex for the individual and society overall.

  60. @ Jack Outside the Box

    I like Blackdragon’s system because I recognize that with the world today, it is the least bad thing because the other better world is gone and not coming back in my lifetime as well as it does increase happiness in this world for individual men. Even if one fails at it, he is most probably a little more successful and happy, and in a certain sense that is good. It is kind of like when I voted for Donald Trump to be President and all of the Republican candidates meaning that I could not vote for the good or the best because I could only vote for the least bad as the good or the best was not available. By the way, I regard your comments over at the Caleb Jones blog to be much more sensible than here.

  61. Yo Doclove, how about we save the prostitution discussion for the polyamory thread. I’ll respond to you over there. Let me just finish some things up here.

     

  62. JBP ain’t blue pill on sex.

    Um……he supports traditional monogamous marriage. He’s against casual sex. He’s in favor of slut shaming. What more do you need? The word “beta” on his forehead?

    He has lots of videos saying doing be a beta male if you want women and ‘why women like bad boys’ and the importance of being a dominant and capable man if you want to attract women,

    Yeah, so you can get a wife and lose your virginity on your wedding night! LMAO! I wonder how many times his wife cheated on him.

    Maybe he just has a low sex drive though and prefers work to sex.

    It’s not about what he prefers for himself. It’s about what he prefers for others.

     

     

  63. So nothing included in this article to back up the claim made against him? Obviously we can listen to his various talks and find out directly, but if you are going to label somebody, and in the process insinuate that it is a negative quality, something to back up these claims would be nice.

     

  64. @JackOutsideTheBox

    I like you dude!

    Thanks….. I think.

    YES!!! We need to analyze Milo so badly!!!

    Back when he was planning on going to Sweden in order to lead a gay pride parade through a Muslim ghetto, I actually wrote a eulogy for him, since, like everyone else, I thought he was going to die. But then he didn’t go, because he realized that he was going to die.

    But here’s just a tiny excerpt from my never published eulogy:

    “Milo Yiannapoulos was a name that we could have very easily never heard. Like many gays, he could have been the typical, self-righteous, heterophobic bigot; obsessed with his hair, whining about irrelevant Christians, and constantly preening in the newest fashion trends when going to SJW protests for the pronoun rights of trannies.

    “But because he chose instead to be a great man, he said, ‘fuck all that noise’ and instead chose the road less traveled by. This path earned him the respect of millions and the hate of thousands (because fat women are counted twice). And it’s a path that has turned him into a pro-heterosexual, anti-SJW, pro-laughter, pro-freedom, pro-sex, and politically incorrect gay man……who still obsessed about his hair and enjoyed preening in the newest fashion trends, but only while going to college campuses in order to trigger the tyrants that would silence him.

    “Well Milo, although I never actually met you face to face, and didn’t agree with you about everything, I am still proud to have known of you, proud to call you a hero, and proud to say that I, for one, will miss you. Rest in peace, Milo, and fuck Islam!”    

    Those were just the highlights. My full eulogy was 10 pages long. Still, I’m glad he’s still alive and that he realized that he’d die if he would have gone to Sweden. So now my full eulogy will have to wait, hopefully, a long, long time.

     

     

     

  65. talkabout guys with only one concept to schlep around…

    LOL seriously. The stuff that MGTOW bitch about is great for guys who like sex. One alright thing about the feminine imperative is that it will make chicks the main pursuers of sex. By the 2020s, chicks will be hitting on guys just as much as guys hit on chicks now. Its not a horrible thing.

    Us using collectivism as our new religion, that is worrisome. Its becoming unavoidable and its not going to end well. Take Yiannopolos and Peterson for example. They have decided to fight against social vengeance warriors (Justice = Vengeance in all cases now, I’ve made up my mind), by BECOMING social vengeance warriors of a different breed. And Alpha males consider this acceptable. External solutions are a form of moral subjugation.

    Why does this worry me? Because it won’t be long before the government will make it one more thing that will be forced upon us. Taxes aren’t enough, in a few years our government will likely be forcing citizens to “donate a portion of their income to a cause.” The idea of charity in and of itself is degenerate enough. But to force it onto others? I’m good. The observation that grown ass men, supposedly masculine individuals are supporting this, as long as the “cause” fits their ideals, is very, VERY worrisome.

    More “Us vs Them.” Less “You vs You.” Fantastic.

    Keep thinking those external solutions are gonna “save the world,” kids. I’ll be over here doing me and laughing my face off…while I still can. Which won’t be long, I imagine…

    Um……he supports traditional monogamous marriage. He’s against casual sex. He’s in favor of slut shaming. What more do you need? The word “beta” on his forehead?

    And that’s the problem. He’s seducing trad-cons into relying on the opposite sex for happiness, which is what TMM is all about. The concept of TMM is the very first thing that set off the emasculation process. Just like organized western religion were the very first collectivists.

    If Peterson instead said “casual sex is great, just make sure no one gets hurt,” he would win a few more points with me. But nope. Instead he wants to save the world from social vengeance warriors by becoming a different flavor of social vengeance warrior. Yawn.

  66. @ Jack Outside the Box.

    Let us discuss prostitution in the previous thread , The Fourteen Types of Non Monagamy, as I and Marty made comments to which you did not respond and it is the closest thread on that. I do not see how your ideas of how the sexual market place should work without either creating violent chaos or passive aggressive soy boys who will let civilization collapse either by implosion or by conquest. To be honest, even with prostitution, your ideas may not work.

  67. Let us discuss prostitution in the previous thread , The Fourteen Types of Non Monagamy,

    Yes, that’s what I meant when I said “the polyamory thread.”

    Give me an hour to respond to your very long first post over there. Then I need to leave the house. I’ll respond to the rest tonight.

     

     

  68. Spot on about the components of the right-wing.  I too enjoy Jordan Peterson; but, as you say, consume with care.  Of course, that should be the same with any media you consume (or any product for that matter).

  69. No, Jack.  I’ve learned to largely stick to Libertarian voices.   I really don’t need much diversity of thought at this point unless it comes to business matters. I’m pretty well set.

  70. What really pisses me off though is how Milo has shown some hypocritical tradcon tendencies as well (although not nearly as bad and blatant as Peterson).

    Is he really serious though or just taking the piss? He is so insanely provocative towards the left sometimes I think that tradcon stuff is him subtely doing the same thing to the people who like him.

     

  71. This is a very fun post. Especially the comments. Pretty blown away to see a comment by Rollo Tomassi on a BD post. The two best RP writers in the IMHO! 🙂

  72. BD, would you consider doing a blog post about Joe Rogan. To me he is one of the most interesting guys out there at the moment. His star is rising an a pretty amazing rate. And well deserved if you ask me. He is so open and very balanced with a lot of the people he has on his show. But he rarely shows his true hand on things. Actually this is probably not fair. He does. Unless its a really sensitive SP topic. Eg: monogamy.

    I would really like to know your opinion on if he is monogamous or not?

    One of his best friends is Chris Ryan who wrote sex at dawn. From most of his content you get the feeling that he is hardly sexually conservative. But he’s married and has 3 kids and seems pretty happy and content with his life.

    If I had to bet my house on it I’d say he is very Alpha 2.o and not monogamous at all. But I’m just not sure!

  73. BD, would you consider doing a blog post about Joe Rogan.

    At my other blog maybe, sure.

    I would really like to know your opinion on if he is monogamous or not?

    As you said, he’s marred with three kids. As to monogamy, my best guess is that he’s following the standard Hollywood model of cheating on the side every once in a while. But that’s only a guess on my part. I see no indication of him having a discreet open marriage, and I’ve seen many of his podcasts.

  74. Hey BD

    Speaking of Joe Rogan..

    I know you’re a YUUUGGGEEEE fan of Robert Ringer and Harry Browne. You think we can ever analyze Robert Ringer and Harry Browne.

  75. However, he tends to overintellectualize things. Rather than citing studies and concepts, he should learn to be more forceful and talk on the everyday level. He needs to find his animal self. This is a problem with intellectuals and maybe Canadians. Can you imagine him giving the Braveheart speech. You can’t. He would be spouting off what Jung or Nietzsche said and twaddling his hands but he would not instill that sense of masculine strength that move’s mens hearts like (Gregory Peck playing) General MacArthur did…

    Get rekt!

    On a serious note, I think intellectuals and ‘Bravehearts’ should stick to what they’re best at. Broaden your horizons enough if you feel that you need to but don’t lose yourself trying to be something you’re not. If he started spouting too much braveheart speeches he’d lose his credibility as an intellectual and be labeled a maniacal doomsayer. Just look at Stefan molyneux. He’s so emotional in his speeches that he forgets to pull his head out of his own ass sometimes. Trump hope and whatnot…

    Cold analysis is the best for dealing with your own bias.

    Amazing! I wasn’t aware of this history, but it explains a lot about his viewpoints. Interesting.

    Rollo’s talking about this clip:

     

  76. The right in recent years have seized the high ground on free speech, and tradcons like Milo, Ben and Peterson, and Dinesh DeSouza are spot on in their defense of those principles against neo-Marxist, post-modern shutdown of rational debate. However I find little common ground with them philosophically, instead I prefer the thoroughly grounded and rational views of Bret Weinstein (professor kicked out of leftist university) and Robert Sopolski (primate biologist). As a biologist myself, I consider that the widest rational perspective on human behavior is the evolutionary one, and without a deep understanding of our animal nature and origins, we are condemned to rearrange the proverbial deck chairs on the societal Titanic.

    I also enjoy the sex-positive stance of Camille Paglia, although her Shapiro-like delivery and personal quirks can be a bit grating. I find it helps to put her youtube rants on 0.75 speed to properly digest them.

     

  77. The right in recent years have seized the high ground on free speech, and tradcons like Milo, Ben and Peterson, and Dinesh DeSouza are spot on in their defense of those principles against neo-Marxist, post-modern shutdown of rational debate. However I find little common ground with them philosophically

    Same here. They refute that stuff pretty well, while being themselves wrong or misguided on other stuff.

    As a biologist myself, I consider that the widest rational perspective on human behavior is the evolutionary one, and without a deep understanding of our animal nature and origins, we are condemned to rearrange the proverbial deck chairs on the societal Titanic.

    I tend to agree. I fell in love with evolutionary explanations of human behavior after reading The Selfish Gene and The Extended Phenotype; I may have never encountered a more powerful explanatory framework of anything in my life so far (and so near-universally misunderstood, too). Been reading other stuff like Kurzban’s blog and some more books since then. But I don’t think these will come back into favor anytime soon, it’s gonna be an uphill battle for at least another couple decades IMO, if there’s an end in sight at all.

     also enjoy the sex-positive stance of Camille Paglia

    I like her too. Very smart and she tells a lot of cool stories about the 60s-70s. She does make me grimace a little sometimes because there are moments she almost goes tradcon, which is very surprising considering she’s a lesbian IIRC.

  78. There are still some good points to be taken from JBP. Clean up your room, they are banalities, but you have to start somewhere. Hence his popularity with the 20 yr. olds.

  79. As a Christian (but not a right-winger), I have some comments about what BD said about what the TradCons would say:

    2. Be a Christian, and give yourself to God. It doesn’t fucking matter that the Bible doesn’t make any sense. It’s what’s best for society, so shut up.

    The Bible makes sense, but the TradCons interpret everything in it in a fundy way. Some even think that the Deuteronomical laws still apply to us today when they don’t.

    3. Get legally, monogamously married (because that’s what a “real man does”), and if you’re white, marry someone else white (to “save the white race”). It doesn’t matter what the divorce rate is. Just shut the fuck up and get married because that’s what society needs.

    It reminds me of this guest speaker that visited a church that I sometimes go to (about eight years ago). He was telling unmarried men to put their toys down, get married, and serve their wife. He also said that it was biblical. That is a load of crap. I would never listen to that guy again.

  80. Really? You think Milo is an angry, unhappy fool? Wow! Then you obviously haven’t paid any attention to him. He’s the one who is precisely rebelling against the angry, unhappy fools.

    He gets his rocks off by being a professional internet troll.  In my experience, trolls are not happy people, but angry people projecting their feelings on….somebody that usually nobody likes.

    There’s no “hug a SJW” event today, so they are probably safe to hate on.

  81. Well said! JP was a mega figure for me as what he said brought everything I was thinking about together and gave my thoughts legitimacy; the first time I’ve trusted a man’s approval for my thoughts regarding history, religion, spirituality, science etc. His trad-con message was, as you’ve said, right for everytime up to the 1960’s and women’s ‘liberation’, i.e (legitimized mental cooping of men’s minds in all spheres of life), but when it comes to making your bed, making a schedule while/and speaking to yourself as a best friends and getting out into the world and accept, even welcome the suffering, is THE ABSOLUTE ELIXIR to the modern, feminine-centric, feminine-imperative worshiping world where women have been allowed to shit-test the whole of society. You want the quality jobs, threads, toys and poon of the world? Go out and create value!! The Real Way of the Superior Man!

  82. BD, if you want to undertake some serious reading (which ties into to some planning on cultural-spiritual development you hinted a while ago),

    J Peterson’s Maps of Meaning is the non-mainstream book to read. No need to watch countless videos and glean fragments of his statements from here and there.

    He is a Jungian, and Jung is by far the deepest “traveller” of the deep psyche world we have had (along with Neumann and James Hillman, two Jewish Jungians).

    On YouTube we have JP in his other dressing and function, as Paladin of Social Progress. His real identity is psychologist-philosopher.

    As for JP & Females, he’s obviously privy to what, for the sake of chivalry, we’ll dub “differences”.
    But since he is bent on leaving a mark on the course of history (and kinda sees himself as a rescuer of the lapsing White Christian legacy), he’ll do a lot of truths, leaving out tbose that really, really can’t be said by anyone who wants to reach a wide public.

     

     

     

  83. I fall into the first group of alt-right: I don’t know shit about right wing policy vs left wing, but I also never had time to study anything other than the sciences, so I will start to learn these things now. I’m more of an anti-leftist than anything now.

    Anyway, this is the first time I’m hearing something like this. I appreciate it.

    So the follow-up question is, is he still helpful for men that are suffering from leftist culture? I could care less if he believes in God and Jesus Christ. If I relate with the man I relate with him. He clearly has so much to offer us.

  84. As a fairly regular follower of the YouTube channels of Joe Rogan, David Rubin, Jordan Peterson and Stefan Molyneux , I would love to see you Black Dragon being interviewed by the first two and debating monogamy, sexual happiness and PUA with the last two.

    Would you consider it?

    To me, Peterson comes off as uber-smart, knowledgeable and articulate but also vehemently intense, existentially dark and yet not cynical a bit,  which is a very rare and fascinating combination. The other three bring a lot of interesting material  to their channels. I very rarely share Molyneux’ views but he nevertheless made me see some things from new angles that I had never considered before and found insightful, especially in those videos where he backs up his analysis with many referenced stats rather than just ranting his strawman biases.

    But all these guys (except perhaps Rubin and Rogan) and their related accolytes such as Prager, Shapiro or the Weinstein bros are all also abominable Disney monogamy preachers, so it makes me think that they either are hypocritical moralists that have undercover non-marital sex or they have desolately dull sex lives and uber-limited sexual experience.

  85.  Enforced monogamy is, to him, simply a rational solution.

    >Against Socialism
    >Preaches something socialist

    Cute.

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