first date advice, first online date, online dating advice, meaning of an open relationship, alpha male traits

This is the seventh installment of the book that I never published regarding my history with women and the lessons I learned from it. If you haven’t yet, you should read parts one, two, three, four, five, and six before you read the article below, so you can be up to speed on where the story picks up. Everything below is all 100% true to the best of my memory, journals, and spreadsheet records, though all the names of the people described have been changed.

We last left off in winter of 2007. After failing in my first nonmonogamous relationship with Jenae, I continued to see Heather, a woman I liked even more…

With Jenae gone, I was free to see Heather more often, which I was very happy about. Heather was a lot more attractive to me, both physically and mentally. I started spending the night at her place twice a week (mistake!!!); it was easier for me to go to her house because often, she had her daughter.

We started getting very serious. I had feelings for Heather I hadn’t yet had for any other woman I had met that year, something deeper and more spiritual.

In the middle of all this, Marci suddenly stopped seeing me. One day, she just vanished, and stopped returning my texts. I was confused, but later I would learn this is very normal for FB’s. Though I didn’t have a term for it at the time, it was a classic LSNFTE; she had fallen in love with her new boss and didn’t need to see me anymore. Oh well. She’d be back later. They always come back.

With both Jenae and Marci gone, as Heather and I got more and more serious, I did a very dumb thing. I slowly stopped my online dating activities. My online dates grew less frequent, and within a few months, I realized that while I had not promised Heather monogamy, I was not having sex with anyone else but her. The dreaded de facto monogamy monster had caught me. I thought it was okay (de facto monogamous men always do), but I did not yet know the magnitude of the mistake I had just made. Oh, Blackdragon, you DUMBASS.

To be clear, I never actually verbalized nor promised monogamy with Heather. However, at one point, she mentioned that she was “worried” I was “still dating other people.” Before I realized what came out of my mouth, I mumbled something about how I really wasn’t going out on first dates anymore. Not exactly a denial, but another big mistake. It was just enough for her satisfaction to go up while her attraction went down. Not good.

In late December, while out at a hotel at the beach, Heather and I crossed the I Love You threshold. I told her I loved her. And I did. She told me she loved me, and how she was scared as to when to reveal this to me, and was thankful I said it first. It felt good.

But, it was not to be. Because I fucked up my frame, and because I broke all the rules (of which I wasn’t aware of yet), exactly two weeks after this moment, Heather broke up with me. She did it over email. When I asked her why, her answer was incoherent and full of woman logic. I don’t think even she fully knew why. But I did. It was because I had betrayed myself. I allowed her to turn me from an exciting Alpha Male to a boring and compliant beta male. Not badly, not to an extreme, but just enough where she subconsciously realized this very different type of man she was first dating was slowly becoming just like every other boring guy.

Lesson Eleven

NEVER lose your frame. NEVER get 100% monogamous. Don’t see a woman more than once a week (unless she’s a long-term OLTR). Failure to do these things means the woman is more likely to leave you, and leave you sooner, because they kill attraction. Therefore, in a strange sort of way, the more you like a woman, the more important these things become.

I was sad, but there was some good news. This time around, I was not confused in the least, and I knew exactly what happened and why. Unlike when Athena broke up with me, and unlike when I divorced Lacy, this time I knew exactly why it happened and what I did to make it happen. I had allowed myself to get consumed with one woman. Falling in love with her was okay, but I should have kept at least one other woman on the side, I should not have seen her more than once a week, and I should not have lost my frame. All of that would have kept my masculinity up to the point where Heather would have stayed with me longer (even if she had complained I was not monogamous to her). I had worked against my own system, but instead of being confused, this time I fully understood the problem. Granted, it was still less than a year from of my divorce/separation, and I still was a beginner at all this.

As always, I took many notes about our relationship, including what I did wrong, what I did right, and analyzed it in the context of my past experience. Despite my failure, this time, and for the first time, I realized I was probably onto something. I would not make the same mistakes again.

Next time, it would work.

(Oh, and do you think Heather ever came back? Of course she did.)

Part eight of this story, when I really roll into true pickup-artist mode, is next. Coming soon.

33 Comments on “The Story of My History with Women – Part 7 – Falling In Love (And Making More Mistakes)

  1. Profound advice, yet again.

    <blockquote>NEVER lose your your frame. NEVER get 100% monogamous. Don’t see a woman more than once a week (unless she’s a long-term OLTR).</blockquote>

    Just what I needed to hear at the new year, as I’ve grown complacent and am in one relationship that is approaching this, while failing to go back to the well and replenish my stores to satisfy me when I’m thirsty.

  2. This is my favorite series of blogs on the site man. Keep it up!

    So when you went de facto monogomous were you just being complacent or lazy? Or did you have some SP telling you things would last forever with her or something?

    I experienced something similar with my last serious oltr where I started to see her multiple times a week. Then I became to needy and she broke up with me about a week after a situation similar to what you experienced happened.

    P.S.- why didn’t you ever publish the book about your women history

  3. So when you went de facto monogomous were you just being complacent or lazy?

    Complacent. Complacent, happy, and stupid, just like most men when they do this.

    I never get lazy.

    Or did you have some SP telling you things would last forever with her or something?

    Haha, no no no. I had already cleaned that SP out of my system prior to that.

    P.S.- why didn’t you ever publish the book about your women history

    I explained that back in part one.

  4. BD, which articles of the blog would you suggest as starting points to present your ideas to someone new?

  5. In my opinion, this goes back to Blackdragon’s lesson of making the twinkle in your eye be the right twinkle. If a man loses his frame and inadvertently communicates the idea that the woman is the nucleus of his world, whether overtly or not, it soothes the Jekyll in her but awakens Hyde. Sure, you can fake it in an attempt to have some semblance of an authentic frame, and it’s far better than the alternative. But truly having a purpose in life where your primary focus is your mission, and to where your attention continually returns, sends the appropriate message on its own. Couple that with seeing at least one other woman and you have a recipe for becoming the mesmerizing object of attraction.
    Friction is built into the system and is an essential component to maintain, not alleviate. But it must be friction on her side of the fence. The moment you cave and give her what she thinks she wants is the moment you start to lose your leverage. It takes wisdom and perhaps a bit of faith to turn the noise level down when your emotional being and all of societal programming is lambasting you with the idea that you must give her what she wants. This paradox must be observed, or suffer the consequences.
    It’s not sinister deprivation. It’s about accepting the fact that in many ways it’s better for all parties to have a slice of pie and not the whole pie. Give her the entire dessert and you may find you gave her the shits and she’s decided to next you. Do it right and you’ll give her the impression that you can navigate life with a facility she can hardly comprehend, one that seems other-worldly. Women need to feel like you can transcend the chaos of ordinary life, like its your party and everyone else is your guest. It’s through your purpose-driven life, that twinkle in your eye, that you share with her an opportunity to escape the mundane. Perhaps you need to be the man who’s…

     
    …Not Like The Rest?

  6. small typo

    Fixed; thanks.

    BD, which articles of the blog would you suggest as starting points to present your ideas to someone new?

    That’s a very good question and I don’t think I could do it justice just off the top of my head. Let me think on that.

    Perhaps you need to be the man who’s…

    …Not Like The Rest?

    That is precisely who the Alpha Male 2.0 is.

  7. Love these series. Just shows that you shouldn’t kick yourself too hard after making mistakes, but at the same time, you should learn off the experience.

    Hopefully, next part will come soon!

  8. BD, which articles of the blog would you suggest as starting points to present your ideas to someone new?

    That’s a very good question and I don’t think I could do it justice just off the top of my head. Let me think on that.

    BD, you have no idea how many men I have directed to your sites lol. They can literally go from shocked “judgement” spewing all of the normal societal hangups regarding non-monogamy to flat admitting how true everything I tell them is, to the point its “like I’ve magically known their entire relationship history somehow.” They are then fascinated that such relationships and overall happiness can actually be achieved. Sometimes, I wish I had a little card to give them to help get them started down a new path of enlightenment. I think for me, the conversation really usually starts with Happiness. It would indeed be nice to have sort of an intro, all inclusive type of article directed at the guy who needs a change.

  9. I just got caught on to your blog about 2 months ago. Wow I fucking love this series of posts. I just read 1-7 today amazing!  I can really see your talent for writing come out in this series. And a ton of it speaks directly to me! Thanks for putting this out for free. Now Im hooked.

  10. Hi BD,

     

    How do you regain frame after losing it?

     

    I understand it is best to not lose frame in the first place. But say you have lost it, and you want to get the frame back (with the same woman), is this a lost cost or is there some ways one could naturally rebuild?

  11. One part of the article caught my attention:

     

    I should not have seen her more than once a week, and I should not have lost my frame. All of that would have kept my masculinity up to the point where Heather would have stayed with me longer (even if she had complained I was not monogamous to her). 

    So what you are saying is, in order to have a woman stay with you you should date other women, make yourself unattaible to a certain point and probably not tell her that you love her, even though you didn’t necessarilly claim it a mistake in your lesson. What I don’t get is, WHY would you be with her, if your “relationship” only works under conditions? I guess you didn’t see it as a FB relationship, because to you it was an open relationship which was about to become more monogamous from your side. So then later you fucked up, because you caught feelings and I get that. But what’s the purpose of being with seomeone you like, when sex was never the first priority to you and when being with her would have only worked under certain rules? It’s like putting too much effort in seeing other women and preventing seeing her too often in order to still be with her. That I don’t get.

  12. WHY would you be with her, if your “relationship” only works under conditions?

    Are there approaches to relationships that work reliably without conditions?

  13. Are there approaches to relationships that work reliably without conditions?

    I guess it depends on the scarifices you have to make. Seeing a woman once a week is hardly a relationhip anyway. My point though was why would you be with her if it wasn’t for sex only? I don’t think it’s possible to see a woman once week and call it a relationship rather than a FB, if it always leads to sex. But if it doesn’t lead to sex only and it goes deeper, then the effort of keeping that relationship alive would be too demanding. Sooner or later she would complain about not seeing him at all, she would give him drama and then break it off. I think she was about to break up with him anyway for that matter. Either she had another guy on the side or her attraction level for him wasn’t as high at all in the first place. I have actually never seen a woman being in 1 day a week relationship if it wasn’t for long distance or just a FB. I am actually interested in how what would work.

  14. I have actually never seen a woman being in 1 day a week relationship if it wasn’t for long distance or just a FB. I am actually interested in how what would work.

    It just works. When you are busy with your life and women know it, they will kinda accept it. Of course, they will complain about that every once in a while, but who cares?

    Don’t question something you haven’t done yet, just go try it yourself first.

  15. How do you regain frame after losing it?

    It’s usually impossible. The only way to do it with any degree of success is to nicely next her, leave her life for 6-12 months, then come back as a new man doing it correctly.

    I understand it is best to not lose frame in the first place. But say you have lost it, and you want to get the frame back (with the same woman), is this a lost cost or is there some ways one could naturally rebuild?

    Not really; any success doing that would likely be pure luck.

    So what you are saying is, in order to have a woman stay with you you should date other women, make yourself unattaible to a certain point and probably not tell her that you love her, even though you didn’t necessarilly claim it a mistake in your lesson.

    No, that is not what I said. I just said don’t see women more than once a week until you promote them to OLTR. I didn’t say anything else in your quote above.

    What I don’t get is, WHY would you be with her, if your “relationship” only works under conditions? I guess you didn’t see it as a FB relationship, because to you it was an open relationship which was about to become more monogamous from your side. So then later you fucked up, because you caught feelings and I get that. But what’s the purpose of being with seomeone you like, when sex was never the first priority to you and when being with her would have only worked under certain rules? It’s like putting too much effort in seeing other women and preventing seeing her too often in order to still be with her. That I don’t get.

    Again, no, that isn’t what I’m saying. All you need to do to maintain attraction, in terms of not being monogamous, is to never promise monogamy and have sex with at least one woman on the side every six weeks or so. That’s not a lot of work. (And it could even be a woman you pay; that’s not ideal but that will work too.) Read this.

    Also, this will not “keep a girl from leaving you.” She’ll leave you either way eventually; that’s what women do and there’s no stopping in most cases. But it will keep her attraction for you high which will A) extend the amount of time before she leaves you and B) increases the odds that she’ll return after she leaves.

    Seeing a woman once a week is hardly a relationhip anyway.

    Incorrect. I’ve had many long-lasting and wonderful MLTR relationships that lasted years long where we saw each other just once a week. Seeing a woman more than once a week is girlfriend/boyfriend stuff.

    I have actually never seen a woman being in 1 day a week relationship if it wasn’t for long distance or just a FB.

    Scroll down and read item #3 here, which doesn’t address this specific point, but addresses your mindset.

    I am actually interested in how what would work.

    Then get this book right now and read it ASAP. It shows you exactly how to do this step-by-step and explains exactly how and why it works.

  16. This is my favorite series of blogs on the site man. Keep it up!

    .

    Love these series.

    .

    I love this series BD

    I didn’t know you guys liked this series as much as you do; I’m getting some positive email too. Message received! I will increase the posting frequency of these installments. 🙂

  17. I am convinced that it does not matter so much whether you date other women or not but that she thinks you do. Then its all fine.

    Oh, and do you think Heather ever came back? Of course she did.

    Some time back when I did more than one women at for the first time one of them was a single mum. Very good sex, very good looking girl, really good stuff. It was going really good and we were getting closer and closer and then suddenly she said we cant have sex anymore and apparently she found some (I assume) extreme beta who wanted to have relationship with her and accept children and live with her (lol) and that its what she wants. So after some exchanges I did 4 months no contact and then she sounded happy to hear from me but didn’t seem ready to meet up yet. Do I just keep trying every 4 months exactly? Or how would you do it? I really want to fuck her again.

  18. Seeing a woman once a week is hardly a relationhip anyway.

    Thats what many busy people do.

    don’t think it’s possible to see a woman once week and call it a relationship rather than a FB, if it always leads to sex.

    Its the other way around, there should always be sex, otherwise it isnt a real relationship and something is not working well. In fact if you don’t see each other all the time youd def be having sex every time you meet.

  19. No, that is not what I said. I just said don’t see women more than once a week until you promote them to OLTR. I didn’t say anything else in your quote above.

    Until you promote them to OLTR? I thought you were saying that your mistake with Heather (?) was that you should have only seen her once a week. Wasn’t that an OLTR?

     

    Again, no, that isn’t what I’m saying. All you need to do to maintain attraction, in terms of not being monogamous, is to never promise monogamy and have sex with at least one woman on the side every six weeks or so. That’s not a lot of work. (And it could even be a woman you pay; that’s not ideal but that will work too.) Read this.
    Also, this will not “keep a girl from leaving you.” She’ll leave you either way eventually; that’s what women do and there’s no stopping in most cases. But itwillkeep her attraction for you high which will A) extend the amount of time before she leaves you and B) increases the odds that she’ll return after she leaves.

    I get your first part. However my question was, why do you even care to be with her, if you have sex with different women anyway? And since you only see her once a week, wouldn’t you care less about her anyway? That’s why I said, you follow rules to have her stay with you, even though you rarerly see her. Wouldn’t it be better if you fucked her for like 3-4 weeks straight and then leave resp. she leaves because she wants more committment? Or is it because you fear to get attached to her if you did that?

     

    Scroll down and read item #3 here, which doesn’t address this specific point, but addresses your mindset.

    Thanks, I read the whole thing. You also said in one of the comments, every OLTR ends anyway.  You also claim OLTRs to be lots of work and more drama than MLTR, which would also make me question it (not saying MLTR is any better).  So if the OLTR is doomed to fail anyway at one point then what difference does it make whether I a have a classic relationship, FB, MLTR or anything like that? They all are doomed to fail.  I know you say it’s the least bad thing. But infact you could just be in a relationship yet cheat and it still wouldn’t change a thing. In the end, as we have discussed before, women are more likely to still stay with you even when you cheat, if you are a good provider etc unless you make her look like a fool in public.

    Another thing:  according to you OLTR provides pair bonding because that’s what men need to experience as well. So it seems to me that you actually would like to have a bonding relationship but because of female nature it’s not possible, is that right?

  20. I am convinced that it does not matter so much whether you date other women or not but that she thinks you do. Then its all fine.

    Short term, yes (if you’re a good actor and don’t mind lying). Long term, no. Women will eventually know.

    So after some exchanges I did 4 months no contact and then she sounded happy to hear from me but didn’t seem ready to meet up yet. Do I just keep trying every 4 months exactly? Or how would you do it? I really want to fuck her again.

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/

    Until you promote them to OLTR? I thought you were saying that your mistake with Heather (?) was that you should have only seen her once a week. Wasn’t that an OLTR?

    No. That was a MLTR.

    However my question was, why do you even care to be with her, if you have sex with different women anyway?

    Because I liked her the best.

    And since you only see her once a week, wouldn’t you care less about her anyway?

    No. I’ve been in love with women who I saw just once a week. Maybe that once a week was an entire day, spend the night, then spend the next day, and they went home and I didn’t see them again until the following week, but it was still once a week.

    You really need to get off this hangup you have about once a week dude. Just try it and you’ll see.

    That’s why I said, you follow rules to have her stay with you, even though you rarerly see her.

    Once a week is not rarely.

    Wouldn’t it be better if you fucked her for like 3-4 weeks straight and then leave resp. she leaves because she wants more committment?

    Jesus, absolutely not. That would cause betaization to skyrocket, and thus drama and demands. Read this.

    So if the OLTR is doomed to fail anyway at one point then what difference does it make whether I a have a classic relationship, FB, MLTR or anything like that?

    If you don’t know the answer to that question, no answer I can give you would make sense to you. Read this.

    But infact you could just be in a relationship yet cheat and it still wouldn’t change a thing.

    Completely incorrect. I would not be free, and I would have drama. Both are unacceptable.

    In the end, as we have discussed before, women are more likely to still stay with you even when you cheat

    Read this:

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2017/08/24/reponses-men-pro-cheating/

    Another thing:  according to you OLTR provides pair bonding because that’s what men need to experience as well.

    Some men. Not all men.

    So it seems to me that you actually would like to have a bonding relationship but because of female nature it’s not possible, is that right?

    Incorrect. Females love to pair-bond. They just don’t usually do it forever, which is fine with me.

    It looks to me like you need to do a lot more research and reading on this blog.

  21. Oh BD,  you need to finish the next chaptet, im hooked Brother! Great reading your blogs. Im fresh out of a 10  year marriage. This stuff is a breath of fresh air!!!! Respect ,Jim

  22. Blackdragon,

    So, will the pressure against lifetime marriage just keep rising?  Will it just become rarer and rarer, as we become more technologically advanced?

    Will even cultures (e.g. Indians) where it still appears people marry as virgins (or close to it), and maintain a 1% divorce rate (even for Indians in the West), start to see the fabric fray?

     

  23. So after some exchanges I did 4 months no contact and then she sounded happy to hear from me but didn’t seem ready to meet up yet. Do I just keep trying every 4 months exactly? Or how would you do it? I really want to fuck her again.

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/

    You are right that I should not care that much about this particular girl, however my question was a general one, because this is the first case where she has left in the way that you often describe how it happens and yet you keep talking about the 97% return rates so I am curious about this and see this as a practice opportunity.

  24. So, will the pressure against lifetime marriage just keep rising?

    Yes.

    Will it just become rarer and rarer, as we become more technologically advanced?

    Traditional marriage, yes. Long-term pair-bonding, no. Eventually people are going to be forced to accept nonmonogamous pair-bonding due to technological pressures, as I explained here.

    Will even cultures (e.g. Indians) where it still appears people marry as virgins (or close to it), and maintain a 1% divorce rate (even for Indians in the West), start to see the fabric fray?

    Yes, though it will take a lot longer to occur in these cultures, particularly Muslim and Indian cultures, both of which are extremely stubborn and slow to change, regardless of the pain it causes them.

  25. Blackdragon,

    OK.  Whenever I see young Western people getting married today, one can’t help but see that there is a 70% chance that they will not be together when they die.  Whether the split is in 3 years or 20, it was still a divorce.  What boggles the mind is how every single wedding acts as though the chance of divorce is just 1%.  The dissonance between an expensive wedding vs. what happens over time in the marriage is stunning.

    Yes, though it will take a lot longer to occur in these cultures, particularly Muslim and Indian cultures, both of which are extremely stubborn and slow to change, regardless of the pain it causes them.

    What is confusing here is that these communities get married, and even if they live in the US, pretty much have kids and live out their lives without divorce.  The man had no game and doesn’t even know what he doesn’t know.  The woman sometimes loses her looks faster than a Western woman (but not always).  Are all of these couples facing increasing pressure?  Or do they tune out all the SP since they only socialize with their own community, and whatever TV and movies they watch just get compartmentalized as ‘that is what Westerners do’?

    Or is the woman slowing gnawing away the man’s soul in some other way, even if outright divorce will never happen for 99% of these marriages (say, people in their 30s and 40s today, in these communities).

     

  26. What is confusing here is that these communities get married, and even if they live in the US, pretty much have kids and live out their lives without divorce.  The man had no game and doesn’t even know what he doesn’t know.  The woman sometimes loses her looks faster than a Western woman (but not always).  Are all of these couples facing increasing pressure?

    Yes, but it will affect their children when they grow up more than it will affect them.

    Or is the woman slowing gnawing away the man’s soul in some other way, even if outright divorce will never happen for 99% of these marriages

    Yes.

    And the man cheats. I know a lot of first-gen Indian guys in the US who are forever married but cheat regularly.

    We’re way off topic now and this is the last comment I’ll make on this here.

  27. Hey BD – you said that heather of course came back.

    question is – you normally say that in your experience women come back into your life after LFTSE you in a non monogamous relationship because they go with a normal beta provider, etc.

    but in this example tho – you made all the mistakes .. lost your frame, told her you loved her, told her you weren’t dating other girls, and she left you because she lost attraction (vs the normal examples you give of girls leaving in an open relationship)

    but you said “of course” she came back. So question is – this case was different imo than your usual examples,  so why did she come back? Was it just because you avoided  her and didn’t talk to her after ?

  28. You’re right; saying “of course” in this context probably wasn’t the right words I should have used. But, I didn’t make “all” the mistakes, I made some mistakes. I allowed myself to get de facto monogamous and half-verbalized it; those were mistakes. But telling a woman you love her isn’t a mistake; that’s perfectly allowed if you’re doing everything else correctly (which I was not).

    Was it just because you avoided  her and didn’t talk to her after ?

    Exactly, that’s the primary reason. That’s exactly what I did, and why it worked. Though in this case, you could argue I got lucky; my odds of her coming back here not the usual high odds I usually had, because of the mistakes I made.

  29. BD,
    I read the last comments on “Why It’s So Important To Ignore Her After A Breakup” and your reason for closing comments there.

    Since unfortunately for some men oneitis has an effect neurally alike to heroin (of all drugs), why don’t you write a serious post about this (a follow-up to Why It’s So Important To…) where instead of simply calling this type of men “pussies” you explain the drug-like effects with a little more… tact?

    You should also explain that a man is more subject to invest more psychological energy on a single object, or to “obsess” if you want to put it this way (the woman will surely see it this way lol).

    Maybe you have already told readers all they need, and I am just being emotional (I am one of the pussies, although harshly reformed by life, your deep nature never really morphs), but it, lol, broke my heart to read that Chris guy in the comments there, and I wish you’d write something more… easy to approach for the people who “don’t want to be helped”.

     

    This is off-topic, I just want you to read it.

    (I also point your attention to a great blog about such matters, IllimitableMen)

  30. tact?

    I have no tact, and this is not a blog for snowflakes who require it.

    I wish you’d write something more… easy to approach for the people who “don’t want to be helped”.

    I don’t have the time to waste trying to help those who don’t want to be helped. Feel free to start your own blog and do that if you wish, but I have better things to do.

  31. > “a boring and complaint beta male”

    I think it should read “compliant”.

    I don’t think a true Alpha 2.0 is complaint-ing much 😉

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