When you read about all the aspects of Alpha Male 2.0 that I describe on this blog as well as in great detail in my book, including having location independent income, nonmonogamous relationships with multiple women, and a higher income on a lower amount of work hours per week, it’s easy to visualize how to start working on these things when you’re a single guy, reasonably young, don’t have any kids or a wife, and already live a largely overhead-free lifestyle.

Today, I’m going to talk about you guys who are in the opposite scenario. I’m talking to all the guys out there who are well over age 35, who are already monogamous and probably living with a woman, and are full of “life overhead,” such as kids, debts, a home mortgage, a corporate job that hard to leave, little or no business or women skills, etc.

Even if you are not in this category, the instructions I’m about to give might likely apply to you as well.

Regardless, here are two recent comments that describe this type of man. The first is from Reacher:

I am a 38 yrs old introvert, working a 9 to 5 job, living with a live-in girlfriend and a 2 years old daughter that we have together. I live in a Eastern Europe in a city of about half a million.

Private life – monogamy (sex every couple of weeks as I find no sexual attraction anymore)

Financial life – employee with income being enough to cover my/our expenses, but really going nowhere to the possibility of a secure future (having just a little left for saving at the end of each month)

Social life – non existent, with the exception of a few BBQs with other families

Fitness life – regular trainings in a local gym (the only thing that I really enjoy at the moment)

Adventures – non existent

At my age I should have figured things out a long time ago, at least in starting my own business, but I haven’t. I am honestly pretty clueless where to start.

I’d like to start being my own boss, meet other women and have sex with them, travel the world and have a taste of all that life has to offer to a free man.

I love both of my girls and I have a strong feeling of responsibility towards them, but I am really bored of/hate this way of life.

This comment is from Mark:

I’m 42. I would like to enter Alpha 2.0 life as you described in your books and blogs and become more free, and happy. But I have many barriers to overcome. I have been monogamous past 15 years, no/very little experience with online dating/game, very busy corporate job in West Coast, and have a family with kids that I feel responsibility towards.

I have no idea when I can find time to start blitzes and spend that time (10-20) hours or more you talked about above to upgrade from beginner, or even to start. Top priority seems to have an independent business for being financially free.

Then after few years hopefully becoming financially independent or close, I will get close to 50. From posts above, it seems too late to start? You mentioned after 50 it may be hard to do without paying, especially with young women, so should I even worry about starting the game?

I know that a decent percentage of you reading these words are in Reacher’s and Mark’s situation. When you’re an older guy with such a “normal” life like this, how in the world do you get started? Is it even worth it to get started?

Luckily, this is a topic I know well because I was once this man, or at least close to it. Back in 2007-08, I was a 35 year-old, divorced, dorky-looking beta male with two kids and near-zero game with women. I made decent income, but I had a shitload of debt, all kinds of legal obligations because of my divorce, and was dealing with the chaos of the crash of 2008. I recommend you start reading My History With Women series if you haven’t yet to see what I did. I also recommend you read my book if you have not yet, since I talk about the financial aspects of what I did there as well.

I’m happy to say that within about four years of hard work, I turned all of that around. I became great with women, built up two sources of decent, location independent income, paid off most of my debts (I’m completely debt free today) and today I live the wonderful, free, happy, Alpha 2.0 lifestyle that I describe so often.

Granted, I didn’t have to go through the trouble of opening up a monogamous marriage or live-in relationship, but I was still in a similar boat as many of you older guys are with kids, debts, a static income, a beta male outlook on life, and so on.

If you’re a guy like this and want to live the life I now live, as well as many others in the Alpha 2.0 Community, here’s an overview of what you need to do:

1. Realize that it’s going to take some work. When you’ve been living like a beta for 15 or 20 years, that means its going to take more mental and logistical effort to turn that around. You can still turn it around (I did) but just realize that it’s going to take some work. If you’re not motivated enough to work hard, or to do some temporarily uncomfortable things, or if you don’t want this lifestyle badly, then I honestly wouldn’t even bother with it, and just live the rest of your life as a monogamous beta.

If you are serious about turning it around, and are ready to do what it takes, then proceed to step 2.

2. Write out your ideal life and set some specific goals. I’ve talked about this numerous times in various places, so I’m only going to summarize it here. Sit down and write out how your life would look if it was exactly the way you wanted within 3-5 years; your financial life, your woman life, everything. Be as specific as possible.

Then, using that document, set some very specific goals for your woman life and your financial life. (You could also set some for your fitness life, but I can’t help you with that.) Again, your goals need to be very specific, and you need to assign dates to them. Many times, I’ll coach with monogamous older guys and ask them what their goals are, and they’ll just give me some generic stuff about how they want to “get laid” or “have more sex.”

“I want to get laid,” is not a goal. “I want to bang younger women” is not a goal. Even “I want an open marriage” is not a goal. Instead, you want something like, “By June 1st, 2019, I want two FB’s on the side, who are under the age of 25, in addition to my OLTR wife, and I have the ability to replace those FB’s quickly, whenever I want.” Now that’s a goal.

The same goes for your financial life. “I want my own location independent income like you have, BD!” is not a goal. A goal is something like “By June 1st, 2020, I will have a fully location independent business in the X industry that makes $3500 pretax profit per month that only takes me 20 hours a week or less to maintain.” That’s a goal.

Put up pictures or other images that represent your ideal life and your goals, and look at them often. You’ll need to always remember why you’re doing what you’re doing, because during the day-to-day grind it’s easy to forget.

3. Always follow the Rule of Two, even when you don’t want to. I talk a lot about this in my coaching program. The Rule of Two states that you can only work on one or two goals or areas of improvement at one time. You can have more than two goals (I have many), but you can only work on two of them at a time (one is even better). The human brain isn’t designed to pursue more than two areas of improvement at a time. If you try to work on more than two goals (or two areas you’re trying to improve) at the same time, you’ll just burn yourself out, piss yourself off, and probably not accomplish any of them.

So if you want to master online dating, start a new business, and lose 20 pounds, I’m sorry, but you can’t do all three of those at the same time. You’ve got to pick just two, work on them, and then put the third one on temporary hold until you get one of the first two in a zone where you want. Then you can start working on the third one. In time, you’ll get all three.

You’ve got to be patient! Again, you can’t undo 10, 15, or 20 years of beta behavior with just a few months of Alpha behavior. It’s going to take a little more time.

4. If you are monogamous, rectify that immediately. Being monogamous, especially for more than two years, is a sea anchor that will weigh down everything else in your life as a man; you’ve to stop that ASAP. This is done by either getting a divorce and paying the emotional and financial price necessary (which is worth it, trust me), or by opening up your marriage/relationship whether she wants to or not.

Both of these options require a degree of balls. If you don’t have the balls to do this, then have fun being a mediocre beta for the rest of your life. If, on the other hand, you’re tired of being a slave and living a life of a mouse instead of a lion, then either divorce that bitch (and read this) or buy my book on how to convert a monogamous relationship/marriage to an open one. It gives step-by-step instructions from many men who have done this successfully.

I’m not going to lie to you; both of these options are emotionally difficult and will dampen your life for a while. It doesn’t matter, because they’re both more than worth it, and you can’t imagine how happy you’ll be once they’re done. I’m very serious about this.

5. Start a small business on the side. While you’re still working your 9-5 bullshit corporate job, start a business on the side by using my book and other business resources available to you. The very brief summary on how to do this is:

  • Find a market niche, ideally with a decent amount of money, that has a problem or severe need that you can help with.
  • Come up with a product, service, or information that fixes this problem or helps fulfill this need.
  • Set up a purchasing mechanism so that you can sell this item and get money, as well as a website if needed (and it isn’t always needed; one of my Alpha 2.0 businesses is completely offline).
  • Market the shit out of your business and always have marketing be your overall focus. Don’t get distracted with other business tasks! Marketing is always the most important thing!

6. Go slow. Get started now, and get to work, but don’t try to bite off more than you can chew all at once, right at the get-go. Unless you’re already a very motivated, organized workaholic like me, you need to take baby steps with this stuff, or else you’ll get discouraged fast. Maybe you work on your marriage first (divorce or convert to open), then when you get that squared away, focus on getting good with women, then when that’s more or less okay, start your business. That all might take three, four, or even five years, and that’s okay! Baby steps! Don’t burn yourself out! You’ve got plenty of time.

7. Adjust your sexual expectations based on your age. While there are always unusual exceptions to everything I say, here’s the general breakdown as it relates to game and older men:

If you’re age 35-39, just go for it. Learn all the usual online dating / real life dating / relationship management tools. No major changes are needed.

If you’re in your 40’s, you’re officially an “older man,” but you’re still able to get laid. Learn all the usual stuff, but if you want to date women under the age of about 28, you’ll have to calibrate your game to get good with younger women. I strongly suggest you get my older man / younger woman ebook if that’s the case. If you have a higher income, sugar daddy game is also an option if you wish. You’d better be able to easily afford it though. Read this article and this one.

If you’re in your 50’s, things get a little more complicated. There are two types of men in their 50’s. The first type are men who are still reasonably physically fit, have decent skin, have a (reasonably) full head of hair (or a completely shaved head) and know how to dress well. If that’s you, in terms of women, you’re essentially a man in his 40’s, so follow the above directions for men in their 40’s.

The other type of guy in his 50’s, a much more common type, is the typical 50’s beta male who’s really let himself go after decades of monogamy. He’s chubby (or way too skinny), balding, has shitty skin/teeth, shitty grooming, dresses like a dork, and has an overall beta male demeanor. He looks like the typical, schlubby “dad.” If that sounds like you, you need to set some fitness goals, fashion goals, and really clean up your appearance. While you’re doing this, focus more on either dating women in your own age range (40’s and 50’s) and/or on sugar daddy game (by the time you’re in your 50’s, you should be able to afford it, at least I hope). Don’t even mess with normal (non-sugar daddy) older man / younger woman game yet, until you optimize your appearance.

If you’re in your 60’s or beyond, then forget about game, and just focus on sugar daddy game. Buy my online dating manual and focus on the chapters regarding sugar daddy game, photography, and profile creation. Don’t go crazy though; get just enough women to satisfy the goals you set back in step two above. Often, old guys with money, when they first discover sugar daddy game, are like hyper little kids in a candy store, and the sugar daddy stuff ends up consuming their life. (I’ve even seen men get addicted to it.) Always remember that, while very important, your woman life is only a part of your life, not your whole life.

That should get you started on your journey. Just because you’re older and have a wife, kids, normal job, debts, and whatever doesn’t mean you can’t have the Alpha 2.0 life. You can.

Feel free to join the Alpha 2.0 Community to get help, advice, and support; it’s free to join. If you’re very serious about making your life something amazing, join my monthly coaching program where you’ll have access to over 50 podcasts on how to design a life like this, as well as work with me personally to help you achieve your goals. None of my techniques require a superhuman; just a guy who’s sick of being a beta.

50 Comments on “Getting Started with Alpha 2.0 Later in Life

  1. Here’s my situation:  49, married but will be separated in about 6 weeks, have two teenage children.  I’ll be moving out, so once I’m set up at my own place, I plan to work hard on the woman part of my life.  I’ve been with my wife over 20 years, including marriage and dating.  I have a LOT of rust to shake off, in terms of dating and sex.  I bought BD’s younger woman bundle, which includes the book about online dating.  That will be my main form of game, since it seems the most time efficient for my lifestyle.

    I make good money at a typical corporate job, so money and job are fine for now.  I’ll have a temporary setback as I absorb the costs of divorce and moving, but nothing insurmountable.  Fortunately for me, my wife has her own job/career, so alimony should be nil and there might be just a minor amount from me with regards to child support.

    I workout regularly already and I’m probably in the best shape of my life, so no worries there :).  I usually take pretty good care of my skin, but even so, I decided to up my game and I’m trying a couple of more advanced skin care products from the Clinique for Men line.  I grew a goatee a few weeks back and am perfecting how to keep that nice and trim, too.  I have been shaving my hair for a long time — sort of a military type buzz cut — so I plan to stick with that “hairstyle” since it works for me.  I added sideburns along with the goatee and I think they go well together.

    I plan to do my homework in studying online game, writing and rewriting my dating profile, and may even wind up hiring a photographer to take some extra nice pictures of me.  I found a couple of people on Craigslist who will do it for $50 (US).

    For any older guys just starting out who are at the very beginning and need to work on everything, I’d say the #1 thing you should do is start working out regularly.  Not only will you look and physically feel better, it does absolute wonders for your mental state.  Your confidence and overall positive outlook on life will increase dramatically.

  2. @pk

    Get ready to have a lot of fun. I’m the same age as you but have been without the wife for 5 years now. Best years of my life!!

    Great topic BD. So many guys out there need this one!

  3. @pk

    I know where you are at with the nervousness of the unknown. I was there as well. I didn’t even have BD’s stuff to guide me. If you follow BD’s methods, in a few years you will be so happy you will wonder how you ever survived being married!!

  4. Hey BD,

    For older guys (40+) with high income, and yet who prefer to live in a city with lower cost of living and relatively hotter women (just like you), what should they do?

    You see, the problem is that according to Wikipedia, only about 10 American cities have a population of over 1 million (for online dating to be effective), and among those cities, about 4 of them have hot women (according to your attractive city chart), and virtually none of the above have a lower cost of living (because they’re large, exciting cities).

    Of course, cities with lower costs also have less hot women, so I’m confused by how you manage to make online dating work in Washington State near the Oregon border (I plan on living that way in the future to lower cost of living). Because according to the US census, neither Portland nor Seattle has a population of over 1 million, and their women are relatively average. Did you make a compromise? Would I need to make a compromise? Or is there some way to overcome these issues?

  5. For a man in there 60s, instead of sugar daddy game, why can’t they focus on women in there 30s, 40s, or 50s?

    He can if he really wants to, but…

    1. In my experience, men in their 60’s seeking this kind of lifestyle don’t really want to fuck women in their 50’s. (Do you?)

    2. If you’re in your 60’s, going after women in their 30’s and 40’s are women 20-30 years younger than you; a difficult task for a beginner at any age.

  6. @ The New Yorker,

    You have to consider the population of a metro area.  For example, St. Louis has a population of only about 300,000 in the city limits but the entire metro area is almost 3 million.

  7. 2. If you’re in your 60’s, going after women in their 30’s and 40’s are women 20-30 years younger than you; a difficult task for a beginner at any age.

    BD, I was expecting you to say massive amounts of ASD and provider hunter drama?

  8. You see, the problem is that according to Wikipedia, only about 10 American cities have a population of over 1 million (for online dating to be effective), and among those cities, about 4 of them have hot women (according to your attractive city chart), and virtually none of the above have a lower cost of living (because they’re large, exciting cities).

    1. What PK said. You look at the greater metro area, not the municipal population, which is a much lower number and what appears on these stupid population charts. Wikipedia shows the greater metro population in each city entry.

    2. You’re way overthinking the “attractive city” thing. Unless you’re an extreme PUA / player / Thrill of the Hunt guy, you don’t need thousands of hot girls to make you happy, you only need about 5-20. You and I could find that with no problem in any city with 1 million people or more (metro area)!

    I’m confused by how you manage to make online dating work in Washington State near the Oregon border (I plan on living that way in the future to lower cost of living). Because according to the US census, neither Portland nor Seattle has a population of over 1 million

    Incorrect. The municipal population of Portland is just 583,000, but the metro area is 2.3 million; that’s the actual number of people who are within a 50 minute driving radius around here. Again, you’re looking at the wrong numbers.

    and their women are relatively average.

    Yes, but that doesn’t mean I can’t find a few hot girls out of those 2.2 million humans. I have and will continue to do so.

    Hell, even if I lived in China or the Philippines, places where I consider the women to be far below average in appearance, I could still find a few hotties out of the millions of people there, given some time (though I admit it would take some time in those places).

    BD, I was expecting you to say massive amounts of ASD and provider hunter drama?

    Yes, I forgot to mention ASD. Thank you.

    Though you won’t get “provider hunter drama.” Women over 33 aren’t more drama, just more ASD.

  9. If you’re in your 60’s, going after women in their 30’s and 40’s are women 20-30 years younger than you; a difficult task for a beginner at any age.

     

    Well, for someone that is say 40, really works their dating skills, and is an expert by 60, what do you think they can expect?

  10. Well, for someone that is say 40, really works their dating skills, and is an expert by 60, what do you think they can expect?

    That’s not the type person I’m addressing today. In the article, when I say 60’s, I mean a man who is in his 60’s now, not a man who will be 60 in 20 years.

    But to answer your question, if you’re 40 now and you do everything I recommend over the next 20 years, and stick with it (instead of eventually going monogamous like most older men do), then yeah, by the time you hit 60 you’ll be juuuuuust fine. By then you’ll have incredible game, confidence, outcome independence, very good appearance for your age, and most of all, you’ll have built up a massive roster of FB‘s and MLTR‘s to draw upon who won’t care that you’re 60. (Not to mention a great income to supplement with sugar daddy game if you wish.)

  11. Hi BD you’ve mentioned that you might sometimes invite girls out for “drinks”. Considering you don’t drink, would you get a non-alcoholic drink on the date, and if so how would you deal with the questioning from the girl? I’m asking because I, like you, don’t drink but asking girls for drinks is an easy first date idea.

    Thank you.

  12. So, someone who has just turned 37 and starting out (not “too” beta, just not good at approaching but full hair lol and fairly good looking) won’t really be handicapped because of age?  No disadvantage at all? So just go at it in the normal way?

  13. Depending on your situation, you may start easier by relocating to a cheaper country based on your personal niche for women, that is the type of women you like most.

    I would like to emphasize that BD expresses a subjective feeling about his own personal tastes for women when he says Filipina an Chinese ar below average for him. While I share 99% of his dating and relationship insights, if not 100%, my personal tastes are very different for women. I find Chinese below average for asian women, but much higher that the average of UK, USA or Canadin women. Because I like asian women more than WASP women. And I don’t like tall or ‘big’ women. I have lived on the west coast of canada and usa, I have been in Portland, I have been in UK, these were for me pretty horrible places for dating because of my tastes, even LA. I like curves though and reognize that it requires a bit more digging to find rounded asses in Asia.
    I also like black and latinas. While in average Thai women look prettier than Filipina for me, and that’s very subjective, I also find the top 10 or 20% Filipina much more gorgeous than the top Thai women. So averages don’t tell all the story, it’s a bit more complicated to understand your exact niche of women. Plus you have to couple that with how easy the women are to game. If you move to a country where women are very hard ro lay that wouldn’t do any good for you. Lookup in google there is a world map of countries coloured by easiness to bang, while there is a lot to argue about this map, it generally does indeed give a good general idea.

    In USA, there cannot be any ‘genetical exotism effect’ because all ethniities are represented. But if you move to Asia, Africa or Easateer Europe, depending on your ethnicity you can leverage a huge ‘exotism factor’. Imagine if you are black or asian in Easten Europe, or white/latino/black in asia, etc… Also depending on you country of origin you may leverage a huge social status benefit. You still require to learn some game, but this one step alone can multiply by a factor 10 the returns of your progress in game, and it’s one flight away, litterally less than 24h away.

    Long story short, relocating can have huge returns in your dating life and finances. And it is a relatively easy step. You may be able to have a pomotion or job change to an oveseas country, you can even move your familly there. Or you may find a new job overseas. If you can somehow do this movwe, I strongly recommend to start with it. This has been for many men the aingle most easy and beneficial move, this could also be the case for you. It’s worth assessing if it’s possible.

  14.  Imagine if you are black or asian in Easten Europe

    You’re not referring to Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese etc. in EE, though, are you?

  15. you’ve mentioned that you might sometimes invite girls out for “drinks”. Considering you don’t drink, would you get a non-alcoholic drink on the date, and if so how would you deal with the questioning from the girl?

    Yes, get a virgin drink, or worst case, a glass of very light wine like Riesling and just take a few sips. Or meet at a coffee shop.

    If you get a question, just say, “Yeah, I don’t drink. I don’t care if other people drink though; most of my friends drink all the time.” You’ll never have a problem if you state it confidently like it’s no big deal (which it isn’t).

    So, someone who has just turned 37 and starting out (not “too” beta, just not good at approaching but full hair lol and fairly good looking) won’t really be handicapped because of age?  No disadvantage at all? So just go at it in the normal way?

    If you stick with women over age 24 or so, no. Just go for it. If you’re going for VYW below that age, then you’ll have to calibrate your game a little for younger women. My general advice to complete beginners is to start with women closer to your age range, then move to the super-younger ones (if you want them) once you get a little more experience.

    Long story short, relocating can have huge returns in your dating life and finances.

    Obviously I agree 100%, for multiple reasons (most of them financial).

  16. I have a question about an ex. Despite her having a boyfriend we have recently been discussing the possibility of getting dinner together. I told her I’d prefer getting a drink at a lounge, but she insist that she won’t get a drink with another man but insist we may be able to grab dinner. If my intent is to fuck her again, how should I play.

    I also asked her if she would be willing to meet me in my home town but she insist we meet in the city instead…

  17. BD,

    Starting out as an Alpha 2.0 later in life is easier when you’re like me, no kids, haven’t had a real girlfriend in just over a year….but it’s getting really old. I’ve been lifting a lot, and had a woman at the bar the other night escalating kino on me. She was over 33 but if she was Provider Hunting, she was subtle as hell about it. I didn’t talk about work, I didn’t talk about my studies, I didn’t offer to buy her a drink, all I offered was to drive her home the next morning. It was a kick in the ass, I need to get women in my life pronto.

    I have a few photos up on Photofeeler. I have the age set as up to 30 (I’m 45), so women under 30 are looking at online dating photos and rating them on attractiveness, intelligence, and smarts. My first pic up was belaying a rock climbing partner (yes I hear you on the outdoors thing in Denver related to online dating, but it is part of my life), smiling, and definitely showing gains….with 30 votes, I’m in the top 20% for each category (among other 45 year olds). However, my next test with a more traditional pic has started off rough.

    What are your thoughts on outsourcing online dating pics to a service like this?

  18. @Guest

    I have a question about an ex. Despite her having a boyfriend we have recently been discussing the possibility of getting dinner together. I told her I’d prefer getting a drink at a lounge, but she insist that she won’t get a drink with another man but insist we may be able to grab dinner. If my intent is to fuck her again, how should I play.
    I also asked her if she would be willing to meet me in my home town but she insist we meet in the city instead…

     
    There’s this one girl…

  19. What are your thoughts on outsourcing online dating pics to a service like this?

    I think it’s fine and a worthwhile thing to do. However! You can’t ignore the fundamentals of online dating photos (good lighting, no douchey pics, don’t be too stiff, etc) even if your photos score high on a photo rating site. It’s a lot easier for some random girl to give you a high rating on a site like this than it is for a real life hot girl on a dating site to actually reply to your opener.

  20. I’m a dad of two teenagers and they’ll be living with me part time when I finally move out.  While I do plan to keep my parenting life and dating life as separate as possible, should I mention my kids up front in my online dating profiles?  I’m talking about the actual profile part, where you include several lines of free form text talking about yourself.

  21. I am 31 but most people think I look 25ish or possibly even younger. Sometimes I could even make people believe I am 22.

    If my target are 18-22 yr olds (though I am happy with up to 30 and in some rare exceptions older) then would you say it is in my interest to tell girl the age I look like (i.e. 25 ish or in some cases 22-24) and if the girl sticks around long term tell her later (how best do it?), or is it better to be straight with them from the start.

    I know many VYW would date my age but its often outside of their comfort zone and it makes the process longer etc. Also from my experiments I’ve seen that if I put 25 or younger on Tinder I can get a lot of VYW matches, but if I put 27 or older I almost never get any dates with under 22, in fact mostly 24+.

    So I see I can get more dates like this, but I dont feel that good about it and it creates some potential problems for later.

    I think my main focus now is women and I have seen a lot of improvement in last several months so I think if I stick with it I can get to intermediate soon, I think I am almost there now. My next plan is to get a pro photographer for online dating pictures and plan is with that I can get more dates, so that I can use the higher date numbers to get better with the women. I think it makes a big difference, I changed my profile description and added Instagram filters to my photos and some background blur effect and I have seen 2-3x more matches and have now been having consistently 1-2 dates per week (before was once in several weeks). This is with Tinder and age set to 27.

    Financially I am fine, money is decent, no debts, and savings enough to cover emergencies etc. But its a corporate job and the money could definitely be better. I already identified some ideas and some friends to start small business together with which will be different and location independent. My corporate is such that the people are impressed with me and I still have plenty of free time during working hours quite often to work on something else. So might do this meanwhile. For now I have been reading into investment options but I think I will just find some investment bank to do it for me (I have some cryptos on my own). I also plan to start trying some day game chatting up girls in the gym and shops/cafes/bus stops. I know you say focus one thing at a time but the day game I can do while I am doing my normal things and the business stuff I can do at my corporate job. With online I dont see what I can improve anymore now than getting pro pictures. Dates these days also go pretty well, at least first. Still need to work a lot on my EFA and getting to sex fast a lot though. Ive not tried sex talk yet, thats probably whats killing it, but for now that isnt easy for me yet, at least not on first date.

    Sounds reasonable? Or am I trying too much at once.

  22. I have a question about an ex. Despite her having a boyfriend we have recently been discussing the possibility of getting dinner together. I told her I’d prefer getting a drink at a lounge, but she insist that she won’t get a drink with another man but insist we may be able to grab dinner. If my intent is to fuck her again, how should I play.

    I also asked her if she would be willing to meet me in my home town but she insist we meet in the city instead…

    Doesnt sound so good. I’d probably pass. I have an ex who keeps contacting me and writing to me once in a while but didnt want to meet up. Obviously shes missing something in her new relationship but not prepared to take the step. I also dont especially want to sleep with her again. What you need to realise is there are so many other interesting women you wont meet because a girl like this is wasting your time. I stopped responding to my ex.

  23. Long story short, relocating can have huge returns in your dating life and finances. And it is a relatively easy step. You may be able to have a pomotion or job change to an oveseas country, you can even move your familly there. Or you may find a new job overseas. If you can somehow do this movwe, I strongly recommend to start with it. This has been for many men the aingle most easy and beneficial move, this could also be the case for you. It’s worth assessing if it’s possible.

    Yes, this is my plan also. For now I am staying in an expensive country because its a student city with lots of hot young girls and my corporate job pays much better than it would in a cheap country, but in the future once my business start making money it will make more sense to be in a cheaper place – at least part of the year.

    But with women the goal should be that you can get easily lots of women anywhere, but of course to get that need lots of practice, so it can be indeed very good to practice somewhere where you can get more … BUT! this doesnt neccesarily mean the things you learned there will work in other places, still it can help a lot to get the general stuff out of the way like confidence, conversation skills etc.

  24. It’s not uncommon to see old foreign (white) guys with VYW in South East Asia. Even a majority of the women will state age doesn’t matter on their online dating profiles. Also a man who earns $1K USD per month with an online business is considered a high earner for most of these women who earn less than $2/hour.

    Economic Inequality / Market Arbitrage Game

  25. also a man who earns $1K USD per month with an online business is considered a high earner

    Yes but do you want to live in such a country long term? If this is consider high earner the infrastructure is probably pretty shit. And if you earn only 1k per month and need to /want to travel somewhere else to meet friends/family/other types of women/business partners then good luck paying for the flights with this income.

    For me there are asian women which are def very attractive but they are rare, the normal asian woman isnt attractive to me. So I guess my game/money would have to be super high to get those and even then it would be a lot of work just to find the attractive ones. So I am guessing this isnt a good option for me.

  26. Given the explosion of STDs in retirement communities I’d say it’s a mistake to count out the elderly. Yeah they’re not banging 20’s anymore, but they’re definite banging.

  27. Given the explosion of STDs in retirement communities I’d say it’s a mistake to count out the elderly. Yeah they’re not banging 20’s anymore, but they’re definite banging.

    Yeah but the standard is that they are doing each other. I also guess they dont care much about protection because they think they dont have much to lose anymore.

  28. Any pep talk for a dude who pretty much never got tied down, but still has that doubt that I’d be happier with a monogamous girl and kids?

    I live a pretty amazing life on paper. I get laid on the weekends. I do spend a lot of time alone tho and that “settle down” voice creeps in during the holidays or when I find a romantic spot on vacation. Thanks

  29. live a pretty amazing life on paper. I get laid on the weekends. I do spend a lot of time alone tho and that “settle down” voice creeps in during the holidays or when I find a romantic spot on vacation. Thanks

    I dont like too much the idea of BD that even with MLTR you can contact her only once a week etc. With my MLTRs I would do such stuff. Of course this results in drama etc and gets harder to manage, but for me thats an acceptable price considering what I am getting in return. My current approach is 2-3 MLTRs where I treat them almost like gfs.

    My ultimate goal is 2-5 women (or more) who will stay with me long term and I will have several kids with each of them. In the end I will have so many kids that I will start my own country.

  30. I have a question about an ex.

    Why? She’s an ex.

    Despite her having a boyfriend we have recently been discussing the possibility of getting dinner together.

    Facepalm! You don’t “have dinner” with a taken woman. Especially if you’re an ex. You need to be way more discrete and less beta than that.

    I told her I’d prefer getting a drink at a lounge, but she insist that she won’t get a drink with another man but insist we may be able to grab dinner. If my intent is to fuck her again, how should I play.

    She’s testing you. Rejecting the dinner idea is essential. If she rejects all other options, she either wants your money, to put you in the friend zone, or just wants free attention.

     

  31. should I mention my kids up front in my online dating profiles?

    Not only should you mention it on your profile, but you should pay it up on first dates. Mention that you have kids and that you love them and they’re a big part of your life. Your lay ratios will increase, even if the women are very young. Field-tested.

    I am 31 but most people think I look 25ish or possibly even younger. Sometimes I could even make people believe I am 22.

    If my target are 18-22 yr olds (though I am happy with up to 30 and in some rare exceptions older) then would you say it is in my interest to tell girl the age I look like

    Fuck no. Item #1 here.

    Sounds reasonable? Or am I trying too much at once.

    Your job doesn’t count towards one of your two improvement areas (unless you’re really trying hard to get a promotion).

    Given the explosion of STDs in retirement communities I’d say it’s a mistake to count out the elderly. Yeah they’re not banging 20’s anymore, but they’re definite banging.

    I’ve read some articles about this and it’s really hilarious. This is because of the very small percentage of men who can still have sex (and still want to) going around and banging all the old ladies.

    Just think about it; if you’re in a retirement home and an 80 year old bastard whose dick still works, you’re the fuckin’ cock of the walk with all those old grandmas. 🙂

    Any pep talk for a dude who pretty much never got tied down, but still has that doubt that I’d be happier with a monogamous girl and kids?

    Sure. Make a list of everyone you personally know who got monogamously married with kids, have maintained that for 25+ years, and are still happy with it.

    The size of that list will be all the pep talk you need.

    (And remember, you can have kids without getting legally married or monogamous (OLTR Marriage). Read the two chapters on Alpha 2.0 parenting in my book.)

  32. I am 31 but most people think I look 25ish or possibly even younger. Sometimes I could even make people believe I am 22.

    If my target are 18-22 yr olds (though I am happy with up to 30 and in some rare exceptions older) then would you say it is in my interest to tell girl the age I look like

    Fuck no. Item #1 here.

    I am aware of this and I am not trying to act different. Problem is that Tinder (and this is by far the maun online dating deal over here) doesnt work very well when the age difference is more than 5 years as I will not even appear to them unless they specifically opted to include my age, which limits the numbers of VYW I could get matched with from hundreds to not that many.

    Your job doesn’t count towards one of your two improvement areas (unless you’re really trying hard to get a promotion).

    Not at all, I was not talking about my job being an improvement area. I was talking about using the spare time on my job to work on setting up my online business. Whilst the women part I do other times, though so far mainly online but I want to get into daygame also. Other areas of my life are pretty good already.

  33. I am aware of this and I am not trying to act different. Problem is that Tinder (and this is by far the maun online dating deal over here) doesnt work very well when the age

    That’s different and I’ve addressed that many times before. Yes, make your age younger on the dating site/app, but then come clean about your real age on the actual date (if not sooner).

    I was talking about using the spare time on my job to work on setting up my online business.

    Sure, go for it.

  34. @K
    For sure Asians are extremely exotic in Eastern Europe. Do asian men lay easily? I dunno, I am not asian, let’s not forget height is a huge factor…. and people are tall in EE, I would generally not recommend Poland to men bellow 5’9″/175cm. But my wild guess is that asian men above 5’8″ can lay easily women who love asian guys, because asian guys are so few over there.

    @AlphaOmega
    Asians are very very varied in facial looks, shapes and sizes, so you might want to dig a little deeper (nationality level) before overlooking the whole continent and it’s billions of people.

    Anyways the most important question is: what is your type and your niche? Then go where they are.

    Here is the map I was talking about.
    https://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=19491

  35. I am 62 and a widower since 2015 . As a result of inspiration via this blog, since 2016, I have had ongoing relationships with 7 women. None of them have been over the age of 46. The youngest is 24 ( she rarely dates a man under 50 ) Some of them have had running costs, the rest don’t.

    My initial goal was weight loss of 20 lbs which I achieved. My next goal is to set up some new businesses so I can ease myself out of the job I am in.

    Good dating advice for the older guy( practical and ” road tested”) is sparse even on here. It’s like the perception is that once you reach 50, it’s all down hill. Fuck that. 60 is the new 40 and you are as young as the woman you are feeling.

    I am in the UK so you have to adapt BD processes to suit but in general it works.

    Rave to the grave….” not fade away “

  36. Hey Blackdragon,

    Quick scenario question:

    I am seeing this 23 y/o amongst the 7 other girls I am seeing currently. I am in my 30s. I’ve been seeing her for about 3 months and we have had sex about 5 times now. I see her about once every week and we usually have sex. She’s hot and works a sexual job where she is constantly hit on by men (bikini bar). Coincidently the sex sucks with her and she never seems into it. Go figure such a hot body but lousy at sex. I don’t treat her special by any means and treat her like any other girl. I haven’t spent really any money on her. Initially things went well and she was really into me. About a month in she told me her ex boyfriend wants to get back together and she was on the fence. Then she told me she wanted to not date anymore. I played it cool and just responded with ok and went no contact. What do you know a month later she returned and asked me out and we continued. This went good for a few dates and then the last time I saw her she seemed distant. She’s always a little awkward to be honest though cause she’s young so I’m not positive. I sense that the ex boyfriend may still be in the picture which I don’t really care. My question is just what is the right way to handle girls that you sense go luke warm? My gut says just go no contact and if she initiates contact continue. I don’t want to initiate contact or pitch another date when she seems distracted. She still showed up for last date but my senses are just picking up a spidey sense.

    Correct way to proceed on a seemingly distracted girl? Keep setting up dates until she stops showing up? Or once you sense distraction go no-contact?

    I dont necessarily have oneitis for her cause the sex sucks but just want to know for future girls.

    Thanks BD

  37.  

    Don wrote:

    I am 62 and a widower since 2015 . As a result of inspiration via this blog, since 2016, I have had ongoing relationships with 7 women. None of them have been over the age of 46. The youngest is 24 ( she rarely dates a man under 50 ) Some of them have had running costs, the rest don’t.

    I just turned 60, and have also been having much more success with women in the last few years than I ever did when I was younger. Mainly because of BD and other sources in the seduction community.

    But it has been mainly with women my own age, serial monogamy style.  Though I have not found older women nearly as problematic as some guys do, I would like to  start dating younger women as well.

    Couple of questions, for Don, BD, or anyone else:

    1.  What’s are  good ways to meet younger women as an older guy? I haven’t had any luck online.

    2.  Non-monogamy has been a sticking point for me. What did you find most helpful for adopting this new mindset?

     

  38. No More Mr. Nice Guy

    1.    I have found the  fastest way to get younger women, i.e. for me  in my 60`s,  is Seeking Arrangement. 90% of the women on there are good looking.

    On the 14th July, I ran a dating campaign on one months membership. This was  based on BD processes.  I got 156  that ” viewed me ”   and 63 “favourited me ” .  I exchanged messages with 124 women ages from 19 to 58.  In 30 days, I went on 15 first dates, 5 second dates and now have 3 women that I am having a regular relationship with.  ( the 1 month membership cost me about $80. )

    One is on a ” pay per view ” ( she is 24 and she does not go out with guys under the age of 50 )  .  The other 2 are just like ordinary relationships ( in their 40`s ) i.e. no cash payments to them . ( one actually paid for a hotel on the basis I paid for dinner ).   They all know the situation is Open as I explained to them from the first date.  That part of the “Talk” takes a bit of courage but after the first time , it gets easier.  The girls in their 40`s   accepted that.   ( but about half of the other dates did not )

    I filtered out the hookers,  amateur escorts, ( most , but not all, in the age range 19 to 35 ) the women in their 50`s ( not that many )  and targeted the women that were seeking a good time.  SA is not all about hookers.  The ” Arrangement” means many things to different women.  Typically my target was ( is ) , women that are single mothers, divorced or never married and they are JAM  ( just about managing, financially  ) I hope that does not sound like I am a predator but that`s life.   They are looking for company , sex and a relationship which the other party can pay for.   Typically they are in the age range 41 to 48. ( ok, 48 usually means 52, lol, but there are some gorgeous ones in that age bracket )

    Then,  next level down in age range is 37 to about 42.  Lots, but not all, are looking for a little ” allowance ” ,  typically I find about $500 a  month which helps them pay for nails, hair dresser, baby sitter etc.   They do not think of this as prostitution, just a little ” help ”   Which is fine as that was about what I gave my late wife for R&R.

    This campaign takes a bit of a budget and time commitment on your diary.  But the more effort you put in , the more sex with younger women you will get.

    I have tried Zoosk.  90%  of the photos of women on there are not sexually attractive for me.

    I consider SA as an Extreme dating site. ( a bit like extreme sports ) .  SA needs a Users Guide for the Older Man. Maybe someone knows of one ?  If not,  I am thinking of getting that all down on paper from my experiences over that last 18 months.

     

    2.  Adopting non-monogamy mindset ?   I guess that depends on how you feel and how you think about your own attitude or mindset.    For me, I still think like a 25 year old when I see a horny looking women walk past me in the street  or airport  or  car park.  I usually think , what would she be like  bent over ?

    How does that relate to a one to one  relationship ?  Get this into your head….there are only so many Saturday nights left.  I had a  41 year old that I just came out of a relationship with recently . I  worked out that the age difference showed I had lived thru 1,040 more Saturday nights than she had.  How many more do I have ?  It does not matter…just go for it.

    You need to think about how many younger women you can have sex with before you need to have a live-in partner ( to wipe the gravy off your chin and backside ).       One of my inspirations was an article in the London Times last year.  The primary story was about a  70 year old, who was still married to his 70 year old wife. He kept her in a lifestyle she was accustomed but also had two  35 year old women in relationships.  He was a happy man.

    Burn out, not fade away.

     

     

     

  39. 1.  What’s are  good ways to meet younger women as an older guy? I haven’t had any luck online.

    Online is the best way for older men / younger women, seriously. Sugar daddy game is also an option, but it will cost money.

    Daygame is an option but it’s harder.

    Get this book.

    2.  Non-monogamy has been a sticking point for me. What did you find most helpful for adopting this new mindset?

    Do you like only being locked down to one woman sexually? How does it feel when you want to fuck another woman but you can’t because you’re already monogamous to another? These feelings should be more than enough to guide you, unless you have a low sex drive.

  40. @Don, many thanks for the very detailed response… Yes, you really should write a guide!

    Based on your recommendation, I set up a basic SA profile today. As you say, the women do seem more attractive than on most of the other sites I’ve tried.

    Already, have had a couple of them – 19 and 23 – favourite me, so I’ll see what happens.

  41. For those of you over 50, don’t think you are too old. I was married 27 years, and got divorced a couple of years ago. I don’t smoke and I drink only lightly on a social basis, but I was over weight. I lost the weight, improved my style a little and I’ve landed a long list of women from 19 to 50 since then, although I prefer the younger girls when I can get their attention.

    I’m no Brad Pitt although I am athletic and in decent shape now. At my age just being in shape puts me in the top 5% since I am tall and have good genetics. I have a full head of hair too that is naturally almost white now, although I keep it very short and colored a light blonde, which is my natural color. I like feminine women and feminine women tend to like manly men, so no metrosexual BS for me. Short hair, day or two stuble, casual mostly, but clean cut and somewhat stylish is my look. I can probably pass for mid 40s.

    I live in a small college town, so there are loads of young women that aren’t looking for commitment that like to hang with men that have nice things. I have a nice crib in a trendy area, a nice ride and a lake house with a boat, although I’m not flashy with jewelry or any of the other old dude player stereotypes.

    The easiest women are the 25 to 35 YO single mothers that are looking for someone to support them and their kids (and there are a ton of them, even in small towns). Just hit them and move along and make them plates for the ones that don’t move on quickly when they find out they have no long term chance with you. The newly divorced ones are usually hot to trot and easier to deal with, as they haven’t learned yet that they are tainted to most modern men that aren’t desperate for a commitment. If they are attractive, they are all used to using their look and sex to manipulate men, but that doesn’t work on me any more, because I get enough sex and I know the game now. Don’t let it work on you either.

    Anyway, you will be surprised at how well a 55 year old man can do with the women if your in shape and act confident. That’s the key, look good for your age, be uber confident and go for what you want. I still get turned down, but not nearly as much as you would expect. Mostly by the young hotties that don’t go for older men, but some will and the only way to know is to go for it. Even the young ones that turn me down will usually flirt with me and have fun with it. Occasionally one will look at me like they are scared or disgusted that I’m interested in the sexually, and in those rare cases, I just move on quickly.

    So no, you would think 50s is too old, but I’m having the time of my life and wish I knew 30  years ago what I know now. The feminist movement is ruining marriage and monogamy, so there was never a better time in history to be a single man that right now.

     

  42. I’ll be 34 in November. I’ve been in the Army since January and just got stationed in Korea. I’m not too old, but definitely not in my 20’s. How do I balance military, sex, and school life (Im also enrolled in Syracuse’s online MBA program). I was in a relationship for 3.5 years….lets just say I wont be doing that anytime soon. Never been married, no kids.

  43. How do I balance military, sex, and school life (Im also enrolled in Syracuse’s online MBA program).

    Its a question of priorities. Often people want to do too much but arent able to manage everything that well. At some point you gotta chose.

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