first date advice, first online date, online dating advice, meaning of an open relationship, alpha male traits

Fun topic today. I get a lot of email asking me about this. Time to get your funky funk on.

Though I haven’t had any threesomes recently (mostly because I’ve been there done that), and I’m not really “in” to threesomes, over the past ten years I have had threesomes with numerous women, and enjoyed them. Today, I will describe how you can put together a threesome. It’s much easier than most men think, but you must do things correctly, which most men do not.

I’m only going to talk about FFM threesomes today, which means one man and two women, which is where my experience lies. I’ve never done a MFM threesome, which is two guys with one woman. I’ve tried to put those together in the past (though not very hard, frankly), and I’ve found that most men are terrified of these things. This makes it difficult to put them together unless you’re already part of a sex club or polyamory community. Being massively outcome dependent, most men, Alphas and betas both, are either nervous to be naked in front of another man, view it as some kind of cuckoldry, or think it’s somehow gay. (I’m reminded of this hilarious video here.) Anyways, since I’ve only done FFM threesomes, that’s what I’m going to focus on today.

First of all, having a threesome with a FB, MLTR, OLTR, or even an open-minded LTR is a process that begins at the very first moment of the first date with her. It’s not something you just think of one day and throw at her while demonstrating the completely wrong EFA.

That’s probably the number one thing that guys do wrong. They go monogamous (or close to it) with a girl they like, engage in all kinds of betaization and boyfriend behaviors, then one night, out of the blue, ask her if she would be down for a threesome with her sister.

Uh, no. That doesn’t work, as millions of idiot men can attest to.

This is why I’ve literally never had a problem putting together a threesome. My nonmonogamous, Alpha Male 2.0, 85/15 EFA is right there from the very start. Thus, when I pitch a threesome to a woman I’m seeing, it’s not weird at all. It’s perfectly in line with our entire relationship. Never once, and I mean this now, never once have I ever had a woman get upset or offended when I pitched a threesome. I also can’t even think of a time where a woman refused a threesome when I brought it up. That doesn’t mean I’ve had a threesome with every woman I’ve pitched it to; sometimes the threesomes never happen for logistical reasons or whatever. I’m just saying I can’t remember the last time a woman in my life flat-out said no to one.

Remember that like with soft nexting, the techniques I’m about to show you won’t work if you’ve done everything wrong in the relationship up until now. Success with this stuff starts at the first minute of the first date, not right before you decided you want a threesome.

Alright, here we go:

1. There must always be a primary woman and a secondary woman.

The two (or more!) women you’re having sex with at the same time are not equal, and shouldn’t be. There should always be a primary woman; the woman you’re seeing, and a secondary woman; the “new” woman you’re bringing into the bed (or couch, or floor, or office, or helicopter) with the two of you.

Even if the two women are both people you’re already seeing, one still needs to feel like she’s a little more important than the other. Before the threesome ever begins, you need to be clear about which girl is the primary and which is the secondary.

If you don’t do this, then A) the threesome will be harder to put together, and B) you’re in for drama and/or hurt feelings from the woman you consider the more important one.

What if you honestly don’t give a shit about either woman? Perhaps they’re both FBs who are on the low-end of the scale. I still pick a primary, because I want my relationships to be as low-drama and long-lasting as possible.

2. Follow the correct sequence during the threesome.

If you’re at an advanced level and have already had many threesomes, then do them however you like. If you’re a complete beginner at this stuff, then the general flow of a threesome should go like this:

1. All three of you should play with each other very briefly.

2. Have sex with the secondary woman first, and get inside her as quickly as possible. Enjoy her for a while.

3. Switch to the primary woman and finish (orgasm) with her.

If you’re still raring to go after you orgasm with your primary, play with both women for a while or grab the secondary and go to town on her a second time.

This order ensures that you get to have sex with the secondary one quickly (to avoid any last minute ASD from her) and that the primary one feels more special. It’s a winning combination that eliminates a lot of problems and works every time.

3. Be aware of a woman’s internal “threesome rule.”

Women have this very bizarre rule when it comes to getting sexual with other women. It doesn’t make any sense to the masculine mind, but you must be aware of this rule and operate around it.

Here’s the rule that women have when it comes to them getting sexual with other women:

“I can get sexual with my best, closest friend(s). I can get sexual with women who are complete strangers I just met. I can’t get sexual with any other woman.”

So if you want to have a threesome, the secondary woman must be either a close, long-term girlfriend of hers, or a girl she doesn’t know at all and who she literally just met that evening. If you try to bring in any other type of woman as a secondary, your odds of a threesome happening drop to almost zero (yes, I know there are rare exceptions to every rule).

If the secondary is a mild acquaintance of the primary, a co-worker, a family member, or a friend but not a super close friend, then the primary will likely be way too uncomfortable. Don’t even try it. Instead, only focus on bringing complete strangers to her or one of her super close friends. Much, much easier.

I know it doesn’t make any sense to our logical man-brains, but hey, we’re talking about women here.

4. The younger they are, the easier it is.

As is so often the case, because ASD increases in a woman’s mind for every year she ages, younger women are much easier to have threesomes with than older women. The vast majority of threesomes I’ve had involved women under the age of 23. With women this young, it’s so easy and there’s almost no technique to it, as long as you’re strong and Alpha in your interactions with them. Just invite them over to your place, have alcohol present if they want it, and you’re in. You still have to follow the women’s threesome rule though; that’s still in effect even for younger women.

I’m not saying you can’t have threesomes with older women. You certainly can and I have. (I’ve had multiple threesomes with women over 33.) It just takes a lot more time, a lot more patience, and your primary is going to be so god damn picky about it that it’s going to drive you nuts. To me, putting together threesomes with women who have that much ASD is too much work, but if it’s something you’re interested in, then go for it. Just be prepared to put up with more bullshit, unless again, you’re part of a sex club, poly community, or something similar.

5. The more bisexual they are, the easier it is.

This should go without saying but men often forget this. If the woman you’re seeing often talks about how hot other women are, asks to go to strip clubs, loves watching porn with hot girls, or other similar behaviors, it’s going to be a lot easier to get her into a threesome than if she’s never mentioned any of this stuff.

Be aware of this and keep that in mind. I’ve seen a lot of guys try to get completely non-bisexual women into threesomes, and often it’s like pulling teeth. If they have more submissive personalities, they might do it just to make you happy, and they’ll likely be uncomfortable during the process, but that’s the best you can hope for.

My last OLTR (before my current one) was heavily bisexual, and was attracted to hot chicks just as much as I was, so having threesomes with her was as easy as pie. In contrast, the serious woman I was dating before her wasn’t bisexual at all, so a threesome was out of the question unless she was doing it just to make me happy (which I didn’t bother doing; I just had threesomes with my FBs instead).

6. You’ve got to be very strong, and lead.

Initiating a threesome takes BALLS. You can’t be passive. You need to be strong and lead the women into the threesome. Two women sitting in front of you are never going to initiate a threesome, even if they’re very attracted to you and each other (unless they’re extremely drunk, and even then don’t bank on it). You’re going to have to initiate everything.

There’s two ways that I know to initiate a threesome; the direct way and the indirect way.

The direct way is the method I use. You simply relax for a little bit, talk to the two women while on the couch (ideally the couch, not the kitchen table), and get them comfortable. Then, you just start in. Start sexually escalating on your primary. While doing this, touch the secondary a little bit. Encourage your primary to start touching the secondary as well. If you’ve laid all the groundwork I’ve described above, you won’t need to “encourage” your primary to start getting sexual with the secondary much at all.

Once things start moving between the three of you, shift your escalation from your primary to the secondary, and have sex with her, while letting your primary touch whomever she wants during this. And away you go.

Just be sure to always be leading the interaction strongly and confidently. (Of course if either woman says no, then stop, but again, if you’d laid the groundwork, this won’t happen. I’ve never had a woman say no to this stuff once escalation began, because I lay all the necessary groundwork.)

If that seems too direct for you, then use the indirect method. It’s something I stole from Neil Strauss many years ago, and it works (again, if you’ve laid the groundwork). It’s not a technique I use since I’m a more sexually dominant guy, but you’re not a dominant guy or if you’re a beginner, it’s a valid technique.

While the three of you are talking, start talking about how great it would feel to get a massage from two people at the same time, moving their hands on either side of your body at the same time and in the same way. Once conversation has moved to massage, tell them that the three of you should try it.

Take off your shirt, and lay face down on a large bed or on a blanket on the floor. Tell the two girls to get on either side of you and massage your back, but to move their hands at the same time and in the same way. Have them do this for just a few minutes and then tell your primary that it’s her turn.

Have her take off her shirt and lay face down, and start massaging her with your secondary for a few minutes. Then it’s the secondary’s turn for her to lay face down without her shirt on, and for you and your primary to massage her.

Massage her for just a minute or two, then start making out with your primary while you’re still both massaging the secondary. All you have to do now is let nature take its course, and within a few seconds you’ll be having a threesome.

This method is nice because it “warms up” both women nicely and slowly, gets them accustomed to touching each other, and rolls into sex nicely. (Again, if you’re a more dominant or experienced guy, you can skip all this and just get to the good stuff.)

7. Know where to find secondaries.

So you’ve got a girl you’re seeing who is down for a threesome because you’ve kept a nonmono frame, and because she’s either younger or more bisexual. Where do you find a secondary you guys can play with?

The best and easiest place, by far (if it’s available to you), is from her pool of close girlfriends. If she has several close girlfriends whom you find attractive, this is the low hanging fruit. This goes double if she is under the age of 23. Most of my threesomes have been with younger women and one of their girlfriends. More than once, I would be having sex with a secondary, during a threesome, within literally an hour of meeting her. Some of the most beautiful women I’ve ever slept with were women I met this way.

The next best option is to find a stranger, which is also okay, since it follows women’s crazy threesome rule. Online dating sites and Facebook both work for this, particularly if your primary is pretty. I’ve dated several women who would just cruise Facebook for hot girls, friend request them, have a conversation over Facebook, and then go have sex with these women, often all within the same evening. When it comes to young, bisexual women fucking other women, there is no such thing as ASD.

Online dating sites work as well, but let your gal do the heavy lifting here. Use her photos and her profile, not yours. You can even use her profile and pretend you’re her (assuming she gives you permission to do this of course) to pick up secondaries. Make sure your primary makes it clear that her “boyfriend” or the “guy she’s dating” is going to be hanging out with her, so the secondary knows it’s a package deal.

The last best option is to bring two women together who are strangers to each other, but whom you already know and are possibly are already having sex with. This is much trickier and requires a more advanced level of game and confidence. You have to make sure the girls are attracted to each other, and they may not be. You’ll have to manage any possible one-upmanship that may occur between them, and possibly any other drama. I’ve had threesomes this way only a handful of times, and I made it work, but I had to be very careful and keep my frame. The women were all under the age of 25, so that helped too.

I hope this information helps brighten your day and spice up your relationship life. Have fun!

64 Comments on “How to Have a Threesome

  1. I had few threesomes with my OLTR and I completely agree with everything you say here.

    I would enphasize two points here.

    Always make your primary girl feel secure and loved, make her beleive this is a game between the two of you and the other is just a body (this is the most important part)
    If the girls are not bisex the game will not be fun, you will find yourself fuck one while the other almost waits her turn, the fun part is the interaction between all three

  2. I don’t find the “threesome rule” strange or illogic at all. A woman will never do a thing that could break her social status, specially when it comes to sex.

    An ultra close girlfriend is ok because they know too many dirty stories about each other to keep their mouths shut.

    A stranger is even better because they belong to absolutely different, non related social circles so the risk is almost zero.

    It’s the exact same reason a woman will be very careful with whom she sleeps in her hometown but go completely nuts when she’s in a totally different place.

  3. Great article and timing as well.

    My main chic and I have had a very difficult time finding a 3rd for this (she is Bi and has had several threesomes but is 35 so idk).  Her best friends are not game.

    When she does an online profile of “women looking for women” she gets mostly jelly lesbians that want a relationship or her account gets shut down cuz shes looking for a threesome.  Do yall really have success with the online stuff?  Also seems very time consuming too!

    We have tried gay/lesbian bars with little success.  Neither one of us are big dancers or social extroverts either so makes it a lil harder probably.  We hate really loud and noisy clubs that you can’t hear the other person talk so makes flirting kinda tricky.

    She said she feels weird picking up chics just anywhere cuz she doesn’t know if they are Bi or not so feels uncomfortable asking or flirting sometimes.  She likes the girly ones but like I told her if they are all girly then they are usually gonna be Bi, not lesbian and therefore not obviously gay.

    She wants me to help with the online part but not the offline part, which is what I would be best at.

    Can yall recommend the best dating websites for this (besides facebook) and an example intro wording on what to say maybe?  Best angle to use.  Also, if two people are going out, what are some good places to find Bi chics that are alone and is a good environment to flirt too?  We are in OKC so limited.

    I typically don’t like to mix $ with this stuff but I have thought about offering a 3rd chic a free cruise or ticket to Vegas w/ us just to entice them and skip all the BS.

    How about this for an Online profile??  lol

    “I am a feminine girl with a bf looking for me a girly girl that just wants to have some fun for a couple of nights on the strip in Vegas or go with us on a Cruise.  We would cover all traveling costs of course….”

    Could even be something more simple and local like:

    “I am a feminine girl with a bf looking for me a girly girl that just wants to have some fun for a couple of nights at a local Casino/MMA fight or go to Red River jeep trails and stay in a Cabin.  We would cover all traveling costs of course and you would have a blast with us….”

    Anybody try this approach yet?

    If I spend $ on dating websites, $ at bars on drinks, $ at restaurants, TIME I would spend on dating websites and at these places just looking (time = $) it may actually be cheaper and less stress to do a trip option.   3 dating websites are probably $500-$1k annual expense + TIME to manage them and weed through everything.  So, in reality this online/offline hunting could be costing me thousands of dollars annually in time and money.  Why not spend it on more fun endeavors?

    The one issue with this is that I then feel kinda obligated to pay for my girls way and tickets as well. This then puts me in the “boyfriend behavior” group now. Or should I look at this like we both should split the costs of taking her GF since she gets to f*ck her too? =))

  4. Great article BD and thanks for fulfilling my article request, however the main points I wanted you to address we’re not covered.

    I was wondering more about how you pitch the idea to them as you mention from the get go? I think timing is very important. You say pitch from the start. So the first date you’re going to mention it? Before you even kiss her? Or after you bang her the first or third time? Or after you have the non-monogamy discussion after 3-5months? When and how exactly? Feel it out and dance around the subject? Or be direct from the get go “hey I am interested in having a threesome.”

    I know how to escalate and make it happen once they’re into it. it’s more the setup that I feel is important.

    What is said? Hey I want you to bring in other girls? I’ve dropped it seriously and firmly to girls and have had mixed results. There were ones that seemed on the fence, then enthusiastic. But they never came through. I think it was all talk to drag me along. And there were ones that said straight up they wouldn’t do it. I dropped it immediately with these types. Also girls are pretty bad at recruiting other girls. I would just provide the other girl, or the best is having a girl that has an interested friend! That is the best and most likely.

    Lastly you mention having two girls over at your apartment on the couch. Are these two FB‘s that have never met before? How do you get them over on the couch when they’ve never met. Do you tell them you’re bringing another girl over before they come over with the intention of a threesome?

    Could you expand upon the questions I just mentioned?

    Thanks

    Jameson

  5. @jameson

    Idk about BD, but I usually make it clear on first date my top 2-3 sexual needs and fantasies.

    Then I make it clear that I only date people that I have great sexual chemistry with.

    So, I’ll flat out tell them I’ve had many threesomes n past w ex wife and so now kinda love them and if u hate this, we probably not a good match. And I’ll mention one other item to deflect lol.

    If u ever become exclusive w one, they may not fullfil your fantasy or desire I have found. One more reason not to be Monogamous. Or one time I said the only way I’d be Monogamous is after we did a threesome and they must be consistent or I’d rather be non-exclusive lol.

    But damn it’s a lot of work (time and money) to set these up yourself if your lady isn’t very good at it herself or really picky etc.

    I’m beginning to wonder if it’s just best for me to offer some incentive like trips, casino, etc cuz I’m probably spending more than that using my TIME helping them look. That time I could be spending on growing my biz, working out, basketball, etc.

    Sample pick up line for either one of us meeting someone offline or online, we just say something like:. “holy shit you are f*ckg gorgeous! So I know this might seem funny but my gf is looking for a gf to go to MMA fights, Thunder game or Casino w us and u look like her type and my type too. We cover your tickets, food, drinks and hotel costs too! Here let me show u a picture of her ok …”

    If she replies “no thanks” then ask her for her # just for you lol. Make it funny and laid back.

    I try to use humor and smile alot. Be silly about it.
    Then, I’d probably tell my main lady that we can just split this cost since this wld be a fun night for both of us and explain to her how she’s spending more than this now on drinks and time looking so hard.

    I’d love to hear y’all’s take on this idea too if anyone has tried it?

  6. I don’t find the “threesome rule” strange or illogic at all. A woman will never do a thing that could break her social status, specially when it comes to sex.

    It is, and I’m about to prove it.

    An ultra close girlfriend is ok because they know too many dirty stories about each other to keep their mouths shut.

    Completely untrue. A woman thinking her close friend won’t ever tell anyone what happened is the height of irrationality.

    If women ONLY wanted to have threesomes with complete and utter strangers and absolutely no one else, then I might understand based on social status concerns, but that isn’t the case.

    her account gets shut down cuz shes looking for a threesome.

    That shouldn’t be a problem if she’s on OKCupid, so something is wrong there.

    We have tried gay/lesbian bars with little success.

    Those won’t work. Lesbians have no interest in having a naked man in their bed. Only bisexual women are down for that, and bisexual women (who are usually mostly hetero) don’t hang out at lesbian bars.

    If I spend $ on dating websites, $ at bars on drinks, $ at restaurants, TIME I would spend on dating websites and at these places just looking (time = $) it may actually be cheaper and less stress to do a trip option.   3 dating websites are probably $500-$1k annual expense + TIME to manage them and weed through everything.  So, in reality this online/offline hunting could be costing me thousands of dollars annually in time and money.

    You should not be taking secondaries out on dates, nor spending money on them. I never have.

    Regardless, if you’re really that concerned about the time/money aspect, then chuck all the methods and just go to seekingarrangment.com and throw $100-$300 at a hot sugar baby to do it.

    The one issue with this is that I then feel kinda obligated to pay for my girls way and tickets as well.

    NO. WTF? Have some balls for Christ sake. (No wonder you’re worried about spending money.)

    Great article BD and thanks for fulfilling my article request, however the main points I wanted you to address we’re not covered.

    This article was not “for you.” Many other guys have asked about this, or else I wouldn’t have written it.

    I was wondering more about how you pitch the idea to them as you mention from the get go? I think timing is very important. You say pitch from the start. So the first date you’re going to mention it? Before you even kiss her? Or after you bang her the first or third time? Or after you have the non-monogamy discussion after 3-5months?

    If she’s under age 23-25 or so, I do it whenever I feel like it.

    If she’s well over age 25, I usually will wait about 2-3 months or so. Where The Talk happens isn’t super relevant, since my frame is already nonmonogamous.

    When and how exactly? Feel it out and dance around the subject? Or be direct from the get go “hey I am interested in having a threesome.”

    I never dance around anything I want to do. Whenever we’re both looking at a hot chick, I’ll just say, “Hell yeah. Threesome!” and then smile. That usually starts the conversation.

    I’ve dropped it seriously and firmly to girls and have had mixed results

    Then I promise that your frame is off (i.e. too monogamish, or too boyfriendish, etc, or you’re only dating women over age 33, but I somehow doubt that). As I stated in the article, I’ve never had mixed results.

    There were ones that seemed on the fence, then enthusiastic. But they never came through. I think it was all talk to drag me along.

    Again, that’s your fault. If you’re dragging along, you’re allowing them to do that to you. Here’s what I do instead:

    1. 100% perfect frame, from date one.

    2. Pitch threesome. If she says no, drop it forever and go have threesomes with other women. If she says yes or maybe, immediately proceed with putting one together. Don’t wait for her or keep asking for permission.

    3. If she balks as you’re doing this, try one or two more times. If she keeps balking or giving you “maybe” shit, drop it forever, and go have a threesome with someone else.

    Lastly you mention having two girls over at your apartment on the couch. Are these two FB’s that have never met before?

    Sometimes yes, but usually no. Usually it’s one of her friends. As I said in the article, having two FBs who have never met before is the hardest way to do a threesome, so I avoid that whenever possible.

    How do you get them over on the couch when they’ve never met. Do you tell them you’re bringing another girl over before they come over with the intention of a threesome?

    Yes, but I don’t use the word “threesome” since that may spike ASD. Usually I just say the three of us can “hang out” and “have fun.” Or I may say to the primary, “I’ll bring someone over for us to play with.” I will make sure both women have seen a lot of pics of each other so I can gauge if they’re attracted to each other first.

    Again though, that’s the worst way to do a threesome. The other methods are much easier.

  7. A threesome absolutely tanked my second marriage. It was spontaneous, at a bar. We were talking to this girl on a crazy party night….I had turned around, came back, and found this girl making out with my wife. Of course I jumped in.

    Night 1 was a blast.

    Night 2 was an absolute disaster. We were on the couch and recall my wife recoiling in horror as I felt the other girl up. The other girl and I were way, way more compatible sexually, and being with her was a reminder of what I was missing out of supposedly for the rest of my life.

    I’m just emphasizing, if you have the right frame and outcome independence good times could be had. But it is almost always a bad idea to bring in a third if you’re in a TMM or have a monogamous frame with a girl.

  8. A threesome absolutely tanked my second marriage.

    A classic example of doing something in your relationship that’s wildly incongruous with the frame you displayed leading up to it.

    I’ve seen lots of typical or monogamous guys in my personal life who got seriously burned by having a threesome. That’s why I keep repeating, it’s starts with frame, frame, frame, weeks or months before you ever have a threesome.

    As always, EFA is king.

  9. Re. The closest friends thing: you’re misunderstanding. Her closest friends already have plenty of ‘blackmail material’ that could ruin her social standing. She also knows how they’ll react. Strangers aren’t part of her social circle so she doesn’t need to worry.

    The semi-friends are the ones where she doesn’t know how they’re going to react which makes them potentially dangerous to her social standing.

  10. A classic example of doing something in your relationship that’s wildly incongruous with the frame you displayed leading up to it.

    Yep. She really looked up to me. It was like shooting my favorite dog, she was devastated (and later used that devastation as a weapon against me).

    You made it clear, man, EFA is king. Just adding my two cents in case any mono guys out there think they can pull off a threesome. Perhaps some can, but I doubt many could.

  11. Re. The closest friends thing: you’re misunderstanding. Her closest friends already have plenty of ‘blackmail material’ that could ruin her social standing. She also knows how they’ll react. Strangers aren’t part of her social circle so she doesn’t need to worry.

    The semi-friends are the ones where she doesn’t know how they’re going to react which makes them potentially dangerous to her social standing.

    I don’t think women are going through that level of deep, rational analysis when they are horny for another woman to fuck. I think they’re “feeling” all this. For women, strangers and best friends “feel” safer than semi-friends on an emotional level.

    I will repeat that women know their best friends can tell everyone they had a threesome with them, so considering them somehow safer on a rational level doesn’t make any sense, but I think they feel that way in an emotional (irrational) sense. Thought I admit I could be wrong.

  12. @BD

    Completely untrue. A woman thinking her close friend won’t ever tell anyone what happened is the height of irrationality.

    Unless we take into account what @Parade is saying, which is what I said. Both of them already have enough material to completely ruin each other’s statuses so they will gladly cover each other’s tracks. The example I gave before about the girl that does all kinds of nasty stuff when she is far away from her hometown includes she and her girlfriends on the same trip. We should not forget too that doing these kind of sexual business with a woman she already knows well adds to the comfort and safety feelings.

    If women ONLY wanted to have threesomes with complete and utter strangers and absolutely no one else, then I might understand based on social status concerns, but that isn’t the case.

    It is. Saying that that the “threesome rule” is 100% irrational by definition doesn’t make sense precisely because it’s a pattern, the same way hypergamy or serial monogamy are patterns, and they happen for well known reasons, regardless of whether those reasons match the baseline male point of view or not.

  13. Both of them already have enough material to completely ruin each other’s statuses so they will gladly cover each other’s tracks.

    See what I said to Parade.

    Saying that that the “threesome rule” is 100% irrational by definition doesn’t make sense precisely because it’s a pattern,

    A thing can be a pattern and still be irrational.

    the same way hypergamy or serial monogamy are patterns, and they happen for well known reasons, regardless of whether those reasons match the baseline male point of view or not.

    Bad examples. Hypergamy and serial monogamy can be rational. I personally don’t agree with them and they cause too much drama for my tastes, but a rational case can be made for them.

    Long-term or “lifetime” monogamy is irrational.

  14. I don’t think women are going through that level of deep, rational analysis when they are horny for another woman to fuck. I think they’re “feeling” all this. For women, strangers and best friends “feel” safer than semi-friends on an emotional level.

    Now you’re just being obtuse. They might not go through that analysis but it remains that the less damage someone can do the safer they’re going to be (yes, a close friend can cause more damage, but you know them; you can go MAD on them if you absolutely have to). It’s perfectly rational when you think about the actual goal, which is social standing.

    A stranger will have very little impact on your social standing. A close friend and a semi-friend can both influence it, but you know how a close friend is going to act. Whether they’re going to “spill the beans” or not — they’re comfortable / safe / known to you. Strangers are not known, but they’re also less risky since your social circle and theirs don’t interact. The only real danger are the semi-friends. Not only might they damage your standing, but you don’t know what they’re going to do. Maybe they keep quiet. Maybe they talk to everyone. Maybe they use it as ammo for something else later. They’re an unknown to you, but not in the “safe” way a stranger is (oh, I just met them at a bar and I was really drunk).

    If you want to debate on the point that caring about social standing is important, sure, though I suspect we both agree that it’s pretty irrational. But if you take that as the starting point the behavior makes sense.

    If you want to say that the chick intuits the correct danger levels, ok, but that’s kind of a weird point to make.

    If you want to argue that a stranger for a threesome partner poses more danger than a semi-friend or a close friend…great, now we have something to actually debate. Or if you want to argue that a close friend poses the most danger, semi friend next, and stranger the least.

  15. The point of contention isn’t that it happens, it’s that you’re claiming it’s irrational. I’m claiming that it is rational. We both agree that women in threesomes behave this way, but I think it’s entirely predictable, logical, and reasonable given their starting priorities.

  16. So, in the “normal” case, where the secondary is a close friend of the primary, will you have ever met her before, or spent any time together, or is the time of the threesome the first time?

    In the comments you suggest that as soon as she reacts positively to the idea that YOU start putting it together. But, if it’s her friend, doesn’t she have to do this? How can I do it? I pitched this to a FB I’m seeing now and she said “sure!” but then said she doesn’t know how to invite her friend without sounding weird.

     

  17. In the comments you suggest that as soon as she reacts positively to the idea that YOU start putting it together. But, if it’s her friend, doesn’t she have to do this? How can I do it? I pitched this to a FB I’m seeing now and she said “sure!” but then said she doesn’t know how to invite her friend without sounding weird.

    This somewhat depends on you/her/etc, but you can have her invite her friend directly over to hang out with the two of you (and/or play) and proceed from there, or you can first suggest you guys get a drink or something of that nature and then go to somewhere more private from there.

    Just remember that *you* need to lead the interaction once you’re in person.

  18. Interesting.

    I don’t really get what’s in it for the “secondary” girl. I mean, if she’s at all attractive, presumably she can order up, practically at whim, numerous other sexual situations in which she is the star of the show, the “primary” one, the one who is focused on. Rather than getting a couple quick minutes of sex with a guy who then gives it better to another woman and she has to watch. Sounds excruciating and humiliating.

    I mean, congrats to you for being able to pull that off — and I really mean that — but I don’t see the motivation for Ms. Secondary. It’s very hard to comprehend, I think I would rather go work in salt mines  with a bunch of papercuts than have to watch a guy fuck another woman way better and more passionately than he did me, right in front of me.  But then, I am zero percent bi. Negative bi, if that’s possible. 😉

    What does everyone say to each other afterwards? How do you know when it’s over?

    One more question while I’m thinking of it. You would think the types of girls who are bi and engage in threesomes with their boyfriends would be less prone to sexual jealousy than a typical woman. And yet I have found that the women I’ve known who have been provoked to a crazy, aggressive level of jealous behavior over their boyfriend’s knowing me, have usually been these girls. The only women I’ve had come after me physically, obsess over me, try to get in a confrontation with me, follow me around in a hostile manner at parties, etc, were always girls who often had threesomes with their boyfriends. Which is confusing, do you know why that would be? The only thing I could think of is that getting sexual with women they think present a threat as a rival is sort of a defense mechanism. Sort of like “keep your enemies close”, but taking that to an extreme. Yay? Nay? Or maybe these girls are just more aggressive and physical people in general? The only chicks who have actually tried to assault or get in a fight with me were the bisexual girlfriends of male friends (often the very same ones who had also tried to seduce me but then went to aggression when I indicated I wasn’t interested). Is that just a weird coincidence or does it make some kind of sense? I don’t really understand bisexual women.

  19. A threesome absolutely tanked my second marriage.

    Night 2 was an absolute disaster. We were on the couch and recall my wife recoiling in horror as I felt the other girl up. The other girl and I were way, way more compatible sexually, and being with her was a reminder of what I was missing out of supposedly for the rest of my life.

    I can see how that would end in disaster!  That poor girl, she must have felt like she wished she was dead!  Well it’s not your fault; I know it wasn’t intentional.

    I’ve never had a threesome and I don’t think I could ever do it.  The only reason I would ever consider it would be to please a guy, but I highly doubt I could go through with it.  I’m not secure or confident enough to do it and even if I got through it, I would never be able to handle it emotionally afterward.  The reason above would be my number one fear.  I don’t see how it can not make the main woman not feel insecure?  As a main woman, I would feel like old news, he’s already used to me; that he would find the new girl way more exciting and that would make me feel terrible about myself.

    I don’t really get what’s in it for the “secondary” girl. I mean, if she’s at all attractive, presumably she can order up, practically at whim, numerous other sexual situations in which she is the star of the show, the “primary” one, the one who is focused on. Rather than getting a couple quick minutes of sex with a guy who then gives it better to another woman and she has to watch. Sounds excruciating and humiliating.

    I agree, I don’t see that there is anything of any value in it for the secondary woman (or the primary either honesty, just my personal feelings on it).  They probably just agree to it because it sounds crazy or exciting.  I imagine the girls that do it are very confident, outgoing and uninhibited, like it’s not going to be your average nice, good girl-next-door type.  Even so, I know a girl who told me she has done pretty much everything when it comes to sex and she’s about as wild and slutty as could be when we were in our twenties, but she said even then, she would never have had a threesome.  She was like, even with all I’ve done, if I’d had a threesome, I would feel like an f-ing whore. I agree, congrats to anyone who is able to do it, but there is no way I could sleep with a guy I just met an hour ago. I think you either have to be a bi-sexual girl or just the type of person that doesn’t care and will do anything just for the fun of it.

  20. Okay, so you have two bi women and they decide to ask you to join them in a threesome.  I don’t see your primary/secondary working. So how would you proceed?

  21. You state that the women in a MFF threesome need to be bi, I can understand that. Would that not mean that the men in a MFM threesome would also need to be bi. Unless, of course, you are doing it more in the sense of a gang bang type of thing.

  22. @KryptoKate

    You are absolutely right about Bi ladies being jelly and having double standards.  I have known 2 or 3 bi chicks in last couple of years that have some crazy double standards.  One admitted to me that her prior 2 baby daddy’s had no idea she was bi and just played behind their backs.  Before this, she said the reason she broke up w/ them was because they had cheated on her?!  When I asked about this she said it was different cuz they were just her “girl toys”.  It seems that many are like this – they want to be able to play alone cus they might get jealous about BOTH – the guy and the girl so they figure if they keep this secret is best way to deal with their double standard.

    The second one (dating her) calls me to tease me about this hot lady she slept with last night.  I go on a laugh and tell her that if I had known, I could have invited them 2 to my place cuz I was having a FFM threesome last night too and we could have had 5 in same room.  She was pissed!

    I tried to understand why she was so angry considering we were not exclusive but she was irrational.  To this day, she still says (although friendly again) that I am a cheater and that she is not.

    So, now when ladies ask me to be exclusive, I will ask them if they are Bi?  If they say yes, I reply – “Only if you and I can do threesomes”.  They will ask why and I explain the above lol.  I am just joking of course cuz I don’t wanna be exc but it gets them thinking.  In my view, if a Bi lady says no to a threesome w/ me odds are she is gonna be cheating on me eventually anyways w/a chic so what is the point?

    So I tell them if I was bi too and liked men and would not do threesomes w/ you, would you expect me to not see men behind your back or wonder if I was?  That gets them thinking usually =)   But sometimes they still say, “…..but but that is different…”

  23. Lol at the non-bi women asking ‘what’s the point?’ What if we change it to a MMF threesome? Two cocks means you can get fucked and blow someone at the same time…

    Of course, with MFF:

    You only have one cock but it’s not like the chick you’re not fucking is just sitting there waiting her turn and watching. One thing BD didn’t mention is: make sure you have a dildo and harness available; one of them probably does already if they’re both bi. Boom, now they can fuck eachother while you make out with both of them. Or while one is sucking your cock. Even if you don’t they can still play with each other and you at the same time. You can also do things with three people that you can’t do with two. And you can do more things with four than you can do with three. Extra arms, legs, and mouths come in handy sometimes.

    The point of the ‘one is secondary’ rule is to avoid drama where one of the chicks felt she was left out. Not to force one to watch the other get fucked (though some people are into that…)

  24. The point of the ‘one is secondary’ rule is to avoid drama where one of the chicks felt she was left out. Not to force one to watch the other get fucked (though some people are into that…)

    One usually is secondary, and in my case she knew her role and tried to get me to understand, at one point literally directing me to fuck my wife. Turns out she was more lesbian than bi but damn it is hot watching a woman go down on another woman.

    That poor girl, she must have felt like she wished she was dead!  Well it’s not your fault; I know it wasn’t intentional.

    Correct, not intentional….but why the fuck do you think I’m on Blackdragon’s blog? You’re pretty understanding to even be here in the first place, but as much as most women will look at this blog in disgust, considering where I have been for the last 16 or so years of my life (I learned I was infertile about age 28) it is worlds better for the women I’m involved with to be treated as MLTR‘s in the Blackdragon sense than the Guy-Disney bullshit I’ve subjected woman after woman to (because it was trained into me).

  25. As usual, BD is right on the money. I’ve successfully pulled off a threesome precisely once. First, it was with a primary woman with whom I was not monogamous. Second, I knew she was somewhat bi as we had discussed her attraction to women many times. Third, she invited the girl, who was one of her close friends, much younger and wild as hell. Even with all of that and plenty of alcohol in a perfect setting in a hotel room, I had to initiate. Once I did, I largely followed BD’s sequence of events just by instinct. It was a friggin incredible night. Phenomenal.

    Then, I totally screwed it up. I decided that I would really like to continue sleeping with her younger, hotter friend at will. Even though my MLTR and I were nonmonogamous, this obviously blew up in my face. I did date the younger one for a while and had a blast. I eventually downgraded Miss Crazy to FB and lots of drama predictably ensued until I broke it off.

    If I had played my cards right, I could have continued doing threesomes with them for months to come, instead of only once. Ahhh…lessons learned.

  26. So, in the “normal” case, where the secondary is a close friend of the primary, will you have ever met her before, or spent any time together, or is the time of the threesome the first time?

    If they’re under the age of 23, then usually no. You just meet up at a public location, then all three of you go to your place. Or in some cases, the three of you just go to your place. I’ve done it many times (with women under 23) and it’s much easier than guys think (as long as you’re Alpha, confident, etc).

    If they’re well over 23, then usually yes, often you have to meet somewhere public and “safe” and banter / rapport for a bit so both women can calm their ASD a little.

    In the comments you suggest that as soon as she reacts positively to the idea that YOU start putting it together. But, if it’s her friend, doesn’t she have to do this? How can I do it? I pitched this to a FB I’m seeing now and she said “sure!” but then said she doesn’t know how to invite her friend without sounding weird.

    You’re right; if it’s her friend, she has to do it. My point was you can’t sit around waiting for her to do it, you have to direct her to do it, as I said in the article (lead!). You need to be a little Alpha Male 1.0 about this and give her specific directions. Flat out tell her, “Text her right now. Have her come over with us on Saturday night. We can hang out and have fun.” Make sure to not say anything about sex or a threesome unless she says it first.

    I don’t really get what’s in it for the “secondary” girl.

    Sex, the pleasure of fucking another woman, and something fun, wild, “different,” and in some cases “dirty.” (“OMG! I’m fucking my best friend’s boyfriend! Right in front of her! This is so wrong/hot!”)

    But then, I am zero percent bi. Negative bi, if that’s possible.

    That’s exactly why you don’t see the point in having a threesome, Darling. As I said in the article.

    What does everyone say to each other afterwards?

    “Wow! Isn’t Caleb’s cock BIG?!?”

    😉

    How do you know when it’s over?

    When I cum.

    Seriously, that’s when it’s over. Make both women feel good, then cum, then go out for late-night Taco Bell. A perfect evening.

    You would think the types of girls who are bi and engage in threesomes with their boyfriends would be less prone to sexual jealousy than a typical woman. And yet I have found that the women I’ve known who have been provoked to a crazy, aggressive level of jealous behavior over their boyfriend’s knowing me, have usually been these girls.

    I have seen (and experienced) the same thing. Bisexuality has nothing whatsoever to do with drama or jealousy levels.

    Indeed, I’ve stated before that lesbians are the highest-drama people on planet Earth, so there is indication that a woman who likes to fuck other women may actually be more jealous than the typical non-bisexual woman.

    Okay, so you have two bi women and they decide to ask you to join them in a threesome.  I don’t see your primary/secondary working. So how would you proceed?

    I would proceed into both of their pussies.

    Again, as I already said, even if you view both women equally I would still pick a “primary,” and that would be the one of the two I would most want to have an ongoing sexual relationship with. If you want an ongoing thing with both of them, pick the one you want more.

    Picking a primary in an odd scenario like that isn’t absolutely required; I just think it’s the best way to go about it for maximum benefit and minimum drama after the threesome.

    You state that the women in a MFF threesome need to be bi, I can understand that. Would that not mean that the men in a MFM threesome would also need to be bi.

    I have no experience with MFM threesomes, so I can’t comment on it with any authority, but my answer is no. This is because men in MFM threesomes aren’t going to be sexual with each other, just the girl, whereas girls in MFF threesomes are usually sexual with each other as well as the man.

    Speaking just for myself, if a woman I was with really wanted a MFM threesome, I would do it, but I wouldn’t touch the guy during the act; I would be focusing on just her.

    (Man… an MFM threesome with two men who were both hardcore bi would be a wild fucking night. Not my thing though.)

  27. I’ve been with other women but only in orgy/sex party situations. My couple of threesome experiences with other women we really didn’t do anything with each other. I did not like those, at all. I’d much, much rather sleep with two men and be the center of attention than have to contend with another woman in an intimate setting. Sex parties I don’t care so much because it’s not that intimate. Honestly though I really prefer one on one to anything, with a man.

    I’m just not turned on by women. I have no qualms about sexual activity with them in a large group situation but I don’t find it particularly exciting. It doesn’t bother me to go down on a woman but it’s not something I get off on and i prefer being fucked by a man. Strapons are kind of awkward.

    Anyhow, Im with Kate. I don’t get what is in it for these chicks except for hurt and jealousy. No thanks.

  28. It doesn’t bother me to go down on a woman but it’s not something I get off on

    Never did understand that one, a woman with that point of view.

    I don’t know what it would take to make me suck a cock. A legit threat of violence, perhaps? $1,000? NOPE. $10,000? um……no. $100,000 yeah I need a new Jeep.

    But to be meh about it is, I don’t know, one hell of a gender gap in my experience.

  29. I see that a lot of people (me included) have difficulty in getting the primary-secondary thing. Could you elaborate on their roles before, during and after the threesome ? E.g. Do you tell both their role? If so, how (especially to the secondary)? You seem to emphasize the dynamic of the situation (EFA and the women’s roles) so the more info the better.

    About the act itself, do both women know (consciously!) where things are going? The answer is obviously yes if she asked her friend for it, but generally speaking: does everyone have to know about it or is there a chance to organize a “spontaneous” threesome? The massage scenario you mentioned seems to lean towards that direction.

    Finally, your plan is pretty simple regarding having sex with both women. You play with the secondary, you cum in the primary, bang, the end. What if you want to something not so simple? A new position? The girls to try something for you to see? What about keeping them around both for more in the future?

  30. I see that a lot of people (me included) have difficulty in getting the primary-secondary thing. Could you elaborate on their roles before, during and after the threesome ?

    To be clear, having a primary only matters if you intend on having sex with either of the women ever again. If the threesome is essentially a one night stand, you can ignore my advice and do whatever you want. However, if you plan on fucking one or both of those women again, you need to be a little strategic in how you handle yourself, even if you find the concept unusual to your logical man-brain.

    Do you tell both their role?

    Absolutely not! (Unless one of them is your long-term OLTR, in which case you would tell just her if you wanted, but likely she’d already know.) Other than that, no! No verbalization!

    Talking too much about this stuff is one of the biggest, dumbest thing men do wrong in dating/relationships.

    About the act itself, do both women know (consciously!) where things are going? The answer is obviously yes if she asked her friend for it, but generally speaking: does everyone have to know about it or is there a chance to organize a “spontaneous” threesome? The massage scenario you mentioned seems to lean towards that direction.

    As you said, it depends on the scenario. If one is a woman you’re already dating and the other is a complete stranger to you, or close to it, then of course they know, so your entire concern here is irrelevant.

    I think you’re trying to paint a hypothetical where both women are equally strangers to you…then what do you do? As I’ve said several times, this scenario is very rare. And I would still pick a primary that was 10% “beyond” the secondary.

    90%+ of the threesomes you will actually have in real life (if you have any) will involve a woman that everyone knows you already have a relationship with and “like” more. So you’re overly concerned about something that likely won’t ever even happen to you.

    Finally, your plan is pretty simple regarding having sex with both women. You play with the secondary, you cum in the primary, bang, the end. What if you want to something not so simple? A new position? The girls to try something for you to see?

    That’s fine. Do it. As long as you stay in control, dominant, and Alpha, no problem. That structure was for beginners.

    What about keeping them around both for more in the future?

    That’s my entire point here. If you want them both around, your odds go up if one is a primary and one is a secondary. This is because A) the primary is more likely to stick with you, and B) she’s more likely to convince the secondary to do it again. I have field tested this massively and it works more often than it doesn’t.

    If both women feel identical in their eyes during the threesome, there is no investment on either of their parts. One or both of them will feel like you don’t have any investment and that they’re just FBs (or similar), so your odds of losing one or both increase, not decrease.

    If this still doesn’t make any logical sense to you, take it on faith and go out and experiment. Have a threesome where you treat both women 100% equally, then have one with two new women where you pick a primary and a secondary. Track the results of both. You’ll see what I’m saying works better for long-term retention, and of not just the primary, but the secondary as well.

  31. Burma, Kate,

    You vastly over-think this. Most men like pussy. By extension, if a man likes pussy, he likes two pussies even more. This is not hard to grasp. And, some women generally like dick, also like pussy. Therefore, those women like threesomes. Further, some women who aren’t really into pussy but do like the sight of a beautiful, naked woman, may do a threesome simply for the experience. Women who are “negative bi” and therefore do not like pussy at all, will not like threesomes with a woman. Also, if a woman is insecure she will not like threesomes with another woman.

    However, if you happen to be dating a woman who is confident, and at least a little bit into women, and you follow BD’s advice, you can have a threesome with two women. And if you do it correctly, all three of you will fucking love it:)

  32. BD, do you have any specific advice for mother/daughter threesomes?

    Never done that.

    I’ve done mother/daughter, sister/sister, and cousin/cousin, but never at the same time as a threesome.

  33. Talking too much about this stuff is one of the biggest, dumbest thing men do wrong in dating/relationships.

    Nearly at the top of what I’ve learn on this blog. Talking about any relationship stuff is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

    Watch what she does, not what she says, the manosphere says……she’s doing the same fucking thing, so watch what you do and don’t worry so much about what you say (but don’t be an idiot)

  34. Finally, your plan is pretty simple regarding having sex with both women. You play with the secondary, you cum in the primary, bang, the end. What if you want to something not so simple? A new position? The girls to try something for you to see?

    No offense, but if you’re actually worried about this when it comes to a threesome, take a step back and get more sexual experience before embarking on that path. If you want to switch to a new position, switch back and forth between the two chicks, change the positions so, say, you’re fucking one while the other is making out with the one you’re fucking, or any number of other things…you just do it. Tell the chicks to do what you want them to either verbally, physically, or through body language and quit wondering “what if”. Same as if you’re with a chick outside of a threesome.

    And before anyone talks about “verbalizing” I don’t mean ‘ask’ I mean ‘tell’: “Get on your knees and suck her tits” or “lay on your back; good, now girl two over the top of her on your hands and knees” Or just put her in the position you want.

     

    Never did understand that one, a woman with that point of view.
    I don’t know what it would take to make me suck a cock. A legit threat of violence, perhaps? $1,000? NOPE. $10,000? um……no. $100,000 yeah I need a new Jeep.

    I understand it. I’m not bi at all, not really into male energy, but it doesn’t bother me to play with a dude. Why would I care?

  35. I can’t be the only one who’s interested in an article about this:

    I’ve done mother/daughter, sister/sister, and cousin/cousin, but never at the same time as a threesome.

  36. I think you’re trying to paint a hypothetical where both women are equally strangers to you…then what do you do? 

    Basically I was thinking what to do if a woman openly admits she is into it but is reluctant to bring a friend and I am expected to find the 3rd one (after she approves of her). Provided she likes her, can I bring someone like a FB of mine? The problems that come to mind is that:

    1) They are strangers to each other

    2) The 3rd one (secondary) has to agree as well (if the primary was doing the picking she would have to worry about it, not me)

    I can’t help thinking that it would be much more fun if the primary was assigned some role from me to ease things but somehow I feel this is getting away from how it’s done to how I would like it to be done…

  37. Is it me or most guys commenting here are over analyzing this stuff?

    I imagine the girls that do it are very confident, outgoing and uninhibited, like it’s not going to be your average nice, good girl-next-door type.

    You would be surprised what those “good girls-next-door” do to us Alphas 2.0s when their boyfriends/husbands are not around 😉

  38. Correct, not intentional….but why the fuck do you think I’m on Blackdragon’s blog? You’re pretty understanding to even be here in the first place, but as much as most women will look at this blog in disgust, considering where I have been for the last 16 or so years of my life (I learned I was infertile about age 28) it is worlds better for the women I’m involved with to be treated as MLTR’s in the Blackdragon sense than the Guy-Disney bullshit I’ve subjected woman after woman to (because it was trained into me).

    JudoJohn, Sorry, I’m glad you are in a way better position now than you have been before.  I do understand most of it and I am not disgusted by it.  I understand that guys want to have threesomes, that they want to bang multiple girls, that they want to bang pretty much any girl in sight, that they stare at almost any girl that walks by, that they don’t want to be monogamous, that they want to bang hot 21-year olds, etc, etc.  I accept it because I know it is nature’s way, but that doesn’t mean I like it.

    she invited the girl, who was one of her close friends, much younger and wild as hell.  Then, I totally screwed it up. I decided that I would really like to continue sleeping with her younger, hotter friend at will. Even though my MLTR and I were nonmonogamous, this obviously blew up in my face.

    Now another reason why I couldn’t emotionally handle a threesome.  Girls are sensitive and insecure deep down.  I bet she cried for days and months.  Most guys might not be able to pull it off without hurting the main girl’s feelings, so I think this article will help a lot with that part of it.  I think that is the most important part; keeping feelings from getting hurt.

  39. I don’t get this idea that the secondary has nothing to gain. She gets  sex with not one but two hot people. I think that’s a gain. But I like to watch and don’t need to be the center of attention. I would get turned on watching them and assisting here and there when it’s not my turn (you could also touch/fuck yourself).

    The main way a MFF threesome with me is possible is if you brought in a mannish/boyish woman with a small chest who could pass for a cute guy–that is as “bi” as I’ll go. Voluptuous curvy women just don’t do it for me beyond aesthetics.

    Lady Gaga in that video is definitely me–having sex with two hot boys and/or men  has always been a fantasy of mine but I just like men period–gay straight bi tall short dominant submissive young old every color and nationality.

     

  40. Now another reason why I couldn’t emotionally handle a threesome.  Girls are sensitive and insecure deep down.  I bet she cried for days and months.  Most guys might not be able to pull it off without hurting the main girl’s feelings, so I think this article will help a lot with that part of it.  I think that is the most important part; keeping feelings from getting hurt.

    Have you been with clearly nonmonogamous men? How were your feelings affected by the fact that despite having access to other women he kept seeing you?

     

  41. I’ve been with lots of nonmonagamous men and I feel the same way about threesomes with other women that bulma does. Too much chance of getting hurt by it. The woman in the favored position risks losing that and the woman that is not risks being used. Neither is appealing to me. I want to be the #1 focus during sex and want him to be in the moment with ME not someone else. I don’t mind being that kind of selfish and admitting it.

  42. I do understand most of it and I am not disgusted by it.

    Well, I wonder how things will work out moving forward. One of the women I’m seeing, we’re having a great time and we are in a mutually beneficial relationship considering where we are in our lives (I won’t bore you with the details). That said, I would not spend time with her if I was monogamous.  She’s pretty far from a unicorn and only about 1/4 my type (she’s pretty smart). Non-monogamy gives us the chance to have these worthwhile experiences knowing full well we’ll both move on in our lives. It’s exhilarating.

    I know that this blog definitely has it’s “I just wanna bang lots of girls” vibe to it, but Blackdragon’s “Love Women” post is probably the one that moved me the most. It’s not just banging as many chicks as possible. It’s about having dynamic relationships with beautiful and interesting women without getting bogged down in the drudgery of LTR‘s (21 of my 23 adult years I’ve been in LTR‘s, and even 4.5 years with a smoking hot brainiac 20 years younger there was still drudgery) while not restricting them from searching out LTR‘s if they choose.

    We all know plenty of Alpha 1.0’s and Betas who will make all the right noises to keep a woman in their lives while not at all intending to give said women what they want….dangling carrots, as it were. That’s far more disgusting than owning non-monogamy.

  43. I want to be the #1 focus during sex and want him to be in the moment with ME not someone else.

    This is why it’s fun having a couple women in here haha I believe you wholeheartedly.

    I’m pretty good at giving orgasms, but to multi-task seems hard….and it’s important to make sure everyone cums.

    Anyway, throughout history I think most group sex has been multiple men. There’s a reason our cocks are shaped like plungers and we shoot tens of millions of swimmers…..not as many as chimps who fuck even more, but way more than gorillas that simply beat the shit out of rivals.

  44. I want to be the #1 focus during sex and want him to be in the moment with ME not someone else.

    You are ‘meh-bi’ you’ll take it but aren’t into chicks. Of course you’re not going to be super into a MFF threesome. Try it with two guys who are both into you and see if you still feel the same way.

    But at the end of the day, if you aren’t in to watching and aren’t in to having sex hot chick you aren’t going to be into MFF threesomes. It’s just not going to happen.

    Continuing this conversation would be like trying to explain why some women(and men) have a cuckhold fantasy. If you’re not into it you simply won’t understand it.

  45. I think that is the most important part; keeping feelings from getting hurt.

    Absolutely. It’s one of the most important responsibilities for a man.

    I understand that guys want to have threesomes, that they want to bang multiple girls, that they want to bang pretty much any girl in sight, that they stare at almost any girl that walks by, that they don’t want to be monogamous, that they want to bang hot 21-year olds, etc, etc.

    But that’s not all we want. We also want to retain these women. And the only way to do that is to create something special.

    Like JudoJohn said, the goal is to liberate both men AND women from the drudgery of traditional relationships. Women love us because we bring them feelings of love and pleasure that they can’t experience in a “normal” relationship. That’s why they always come back after a LSNFTE.

    I’ve been with lots of nonmonagamous men and I feel the same way about threesomes with other women that bulma does. Too much chance of getting hurt by it.

    Have you (or Bulma) tried it? If not, how do you know that you would feel this way?

    While we’re at it, have you always dated non-monogamous men? If not, what was it that opened your mind to the idea?

  46. Re. The multitasking discussion: it’s not as hard as you think. You need to give the third wheel something to do. I prefer direct verbilaztion when it comes to sex so I might tell her ‘I want you to watch and not play with yourself’ if she’s into that kind of thing. Or maybe ‘you need to make yourself cum before I make chick 2 cum’ or ‘make out with chick 2’ or ‘lay back and let chick 2 eat you out while I fuck her’ or any number of other things depending on what chick 1 and 2 are into. You can do the same non verbally as well.

    The goal here is to make it so you don’t actually have to multitask, you have another 2 people — you may as well delegate.

  47. You would be surprised what those “good girls-next-door” do to us Alphas 2.0s when their boyfriends/husbands are not around

    Ok fine, but you know what I was getting at in general.  I probably would be a little surprised though.

    Have you been with clearly nonmonogamous men? How were your feelings affected by the fact that despite having access to other women he kept seeing you?

    Hmm, I think I see what you mean.  The fact that they were non-monogamous would have led him to believe that the primary girl wouldn’t have gotten upset when he started sleeping with the younger, hotter, secondary girl…….but she did get upset.  I know it doesn’t make sense if they were both non-monogamous, so it shows how sensitive and insecure girls can be.  I mean, my feelings weren’t affected.  I wasn’t the one having the threesome and even if I was, I sure as hell wouldn’t bring a girl into it who was hotter or wilder than myself.  It would be like me running in front of a semi truck on purpose.

    I know that this blog definitely has it’s “I just wanna bang lots of girls” vibe to it, but Blackdragon’s “Love Women” post is probably the one that moved me the most. It’s not just banging as many chicks as possible. It’s about having dynamic relationships with beautiful and interesting women without getting bogged down in the drudgery of LTR’s

    Hi JudoJohn,  Sorry again, I didn’t mean that it was only just about banging all kinds of girls.  I just meant that I understood the natural urges of guys and that it’s not wrong; it’s just the way nature intended for guys to be.  It would be cool to see what relationships were like in the caveman days!  Maybe someday BD will do a story on what it was like to be a caveman or cavegirl and how different or similar it was to nowadays.  Or I guess I could just research it myself.

    Anyways, I can see how it works out well, seeing a few women at a time……I know, it all sounds good on paper to me, but for me personally, I can’t be seeing/sleeping with more than one guy.  I get bonded, infatuated and attached to one.  I don’t do that on purpose; it’s just my nature to do things that way.

  48. @Bulma: you can try googling “uncontacted tribes”. There are still some human groups that are living in the stone age. The problem is that being very few, they’re probably not representative of what cave people in general did.

    By the way, I second what you said: we need BD to write a 2.0 story about paleolithic love, lol. Maybe in the same flavor as his Superman article, the 20000 BC version.

  49. I am going to have to disagree with the women who have posted on this controversial topic. I think everyone is making such big deal about this, as threesomes are supposed to be fun and spontaneous. I have engaged in quite a few threesomes and from my experience they were all enjoyable and exciting. However, they were all spontaneous and unplanned.

    I agree with BD that if you have a serious girlfriend (OLTR) there needs to be a primary, otherwise I don’t think a primary is necessary.  If you are with two random women such as FB‘s I wouldn’t worry about primary and secondary, just enjoy each other. Although a lot of women are uncomfortable with threesomes, there are a ton of women out there who are very much interested.

    I experimented a lot with it in my early 20’s, so I recommend that the guys out there who are looking to have a threesome try to find women in their early 20’s, as they tend to be more adventurous and curious. (I was at that age.) I have found that spontaneity goes a long way. Guys, go out with a couple of girls, go for drinks and just have a great night, as the night goes on bring up the topic and if they’re good with it, go for it, if they’re not just move on and find others who are interested.

    I think some of the guys who have posted on this blog are making this harder than it should be, just relax, be yourself and don’ t think too much into it. If the girls aren’t keen to the idea they will tell you. There are plenty of women out there who are interested. Threesomes are supposed to be fun, where three people can enjoy each other.

    Threesomes are a benefit to women as well: women know what women like so they can get each other off easily while the guy watches. It’s really a win / win. Threesomes are not supposed to be this romantic, passionate event. It’s more about fun and enjoyment. If you are looking for passionate sex, than threesomes are not the way to go.

  50. @ Donnie demarco-

    Yes I have tried it and I hated it. Once in a situation where neither of us was dating the guy but we had both fucked him before. Basically the two fuck buddies scenario and she was my best friend. I felt like shit afterwards and she said she did too. I felt like he was paying more attention to her and she felt like he was paying more attention to me. We did not play with each other.

    Another time I was sleeping with a man and his primary. Again, I felt like he was giving her more attention and it made me feel like shit. We were not interested in each other.

    The times I had contact with women or we were kissing and going down on each other, etc were all at sex parties. I did not leave those feeling neglected or hurt. I’ve played with women independently but only with lots of people around watching so it wasn’t as intimate.

    Threesomes with two men though- I loved. I had threesomes with the same two guys about 20 times and we all enjoyed it (no they were not bi and did not touch each other). Threesomes with another woman do not feel good to me and I am quite happy to avoid those altogether.

  51. Also @ Donnie demarco-
    I would say that most of my dating life has been non monagamous- not most of my marriage but the rest of my sex life has primarily been with men who sleep around a lot and I sort of do the same, That’s even going back to my high school years so yeah. I guess I just started out with player types and that is what I got used to.

  52. I’m trying to picture how this pitching process works exactly. If it needs to be her close friends, usually, does that mean you just pitch her the idea, then push her to choose a friend and get it scheduled? Or do you literally sit down and browse her friends together and you pick one? Or wait until you already know which friends those are so you can make a targeted suggestion?  What does the primary even suggest to her friend, something innocuous like “want to come hang out with me and my boyfriend tomorrow night?”

  53. I have a secondary woman (complete stranger from a dating site) who could come over alone to join me and my primary woman (i.e. FFM) or could bring over her boyfriend (i.e. FMFM). My primary woman (MLTR) prefers the latter, i.e. FMFM. How should I interpret her preference? Also, what would be the  optimal sequence of events/ groundrules during the foursome?

  54.  If it needs to be her close friends, usually, does that mean you just pitch her the idea, then push her to choose a friend and get it scheduled?

    Yep. If she agrees of course.

    Or do you literally sit down and browse her friends together and you pick one?

    No. Those would not be close friends. If you’re “browsing” through a large list of friends those would not be close friends. She can only have 1-3 of those (or so).

    Or wait until you already know which friends those are so you can make a targeted suggestion?

    That’s up to you.

    What does the primary even suggest to her friend, something innocuous like “want to come hang out with me and my boyfriend tomorrow night?

    Yep. I’ve had many threesomes that way.

    I have a secondary woman (complete stranger from a dating site) who could come over alone to join me and my primary woman (i.e. FFM) or could bring over her boyfriend (i.e. FMFM). My primary woman (MLTR) prefers the latter, i.e. FMFM. How should I interpret her preference?

    Just ask her. Don’t play games with this.

    Also, what would be the  optimal sequence of events/ groundrules during the foursome?

    I’ve never done a FMFM foursome, but I would immediately fuck the new girl first thing, even if I had to shove aside her boyfriend, then do whatever you want after.

  55. I can barely focus when 69ing ergo that’s why I’m not a big fan of it so I don’t think 3some’s will be in my future, lol…But, Great Article as always…

    Thank You,

    Chavel

  56.  

     

    I can’t remember which of your books has the chapter on this, I think it’s the one on younger women. In there you talk about how sometimes you get referrals like you describe in this post, where a threesome happens, and sometimes you get girls who aren’t into threesomes, but still are willing to hook you up or introduce you to their friends.

    But I found this section a bit confusing. Could you briefly explain how you go about getting non-threesome referrals?

  57. I can’t remember which of your books has the chapter on this, I think it’s the one on younger women.

    Correct; it’s the younger woman one; “Referral Game.” Since you obviously have the book, just re-read that chapter, I talk about what you’re asking in detail.

  58. In spite of being written as a series of numbered steps, I found the steps confusing and what seem to be important aspects are not explained or vague, that’s why I came here hoping to find some clarification.

    It sounds (in the book) as though you might be suggesting that you don’t pursue non-threesome referrals until things break off with the current girl. Is that much correct?

    Of the girls I’m dating now, who know I”m not monogamous, I have a couple who are not at all interested in a threesome, but nonetheless have “presented” one of their friends to me in a way that I think suggested they were open to me playing with them. However whenever I push for meeting them they always make some excuses, or seem like they are worried I’m gonna drop them for their friend or I don’t know what, but I just can’t figure out how to get them to go through with it. I’m certain I’m missing opportunities here.

  59. It sounds (in the book) as though you might be suggesting that you don’t pursue non-threesome referrals until things break off with the current girl. Is that much correct?

    Generally speaking that is true, though there have been exceptions.

    Of the girls I’m dating now, who know I”m not monogamous, I have a couple who are not at all interested in a threesome, but nonetheless have “presented” one of their friends to me in a way that I think suggested they were open to me playing with them. However whenever I push for meeting them they always make some excuses, or seem like they are worried I’m gonna drop them for their friend or I don’t know what, but I just can’t figure out how to get them to go through with it

    Then you need to build more comfort with your current girl. Make it very clear that you want the THREE of you to hang out, you and her and her friend, not just you and your friend. Do not ask for the phone number or any contact information for the second girl (you can get this later). Make it clear that you really like her (the current girl). Etc. If they’re nervous about this your frame is too FB or player.

  60. Great artical – good advice and process to follow. It’s about the women. The woman’s wishes in the couple must be respected to have a erotic evening and future hook-ups. I’m 39 single, enjoy couples and the lifestyle. In January I hooked up with a customer at work after a few hair appointments. She mentioned her and her husband were looking for another woman, I said I was interested. Normal down to earth gal, both her and her husband in there mid 40’s

    We met at my place, drank relaxed and went through and discussed what we wanted and very clear on the rules, of which she had a few. She was fine without condoms being used and long as his orgasm was for her.

    Anal was mentioned, that I enjoy it and that she didn’t.  It began with us in my living room all three of us very passionate, open and fun. After alot of for play,  He does her, then me, where I made a switch to anal. He’s extremely excited, she get very quite and then he cums deep.  She starts hitting me – slapping me across the face and pulling my hair, pulling me away from him, yelling. .. at me. The short of the story is we worked it out afterwards.

    The mention of “Sequence” and respect is a must to follow.

     

  61. The other interesting thing about threesomes (and referral game as well) is that they are hard validation for your sex/dick game.

    If your girls are bringing their friends to you for threesomes, and you aren’t even asking for it, it means you are a rock star and she’s telling all her friends about you (and her stories are convincing them).

    On the contrary, if girls are hiding you from their friends, it might not mean you suck in bed but it does mean that the value you bring to her as a boyfriend is higher (in her mind) than the value you bring her as a lover. Which is fine if that’s what you want, but I’d rather be the sex god.

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