first date advice, first online date, online dating advice, meaning of an open relationship, alpha male traits

Many years ago, I visited one of my business clients at his home. He was a kind, religious man who owned a successful plumbing company with several locations, was married, and had five small children. His wife and kids were pleasant, but they were the typical rambunctious children you’d expect. Having grown up in a family with five children myself, I was well accustomed to seeing the constant chaos of a household where the parents were actually crazy enough to have five kids. It made me smile, though I knew that having that many children would never be something I would do; my long-term happiness is too important to me.

The visit was enjoyable and uneventful, until I saw something very interesting. So interesting in fact, that it’s the only thing I remember from the visit, and I never forgot it.

Several of the kids had been playing in the living room and had then left to go play in the basement. They had left a huge mess in the living room; toys, legos, trash, half-used plates and other dishes, crap like that. It looked like a disaster area. Once again, I was accustomed to seeing things like this from my own upbringing.

I was in the hallway talking to the husband when I saw the wife enter the room from the far side. She walked into the living room, saw the mess, and was immediately upset. I was close enough to hear her mumbling, angry curses under her breath, sighing loudly, and shaking her head. She was rightfully pissed that the kids had left such a huge mess.

Then she did something very strange. She angrily grabbed a large bag, kneeled down on the floor, and started shoving toys into the bag, putting them away. She was clearly upset as she was doing this, shoving the toys in the bag hard, like she was ramming a hammer down on nails. The more she did it, the more upset she became.

I could clearly tell what she was thinking: “This is BULLSHIT that I have to sit here and put these kids’ damn toys away! Ugh!!”

I’m no parenting expert, but I am a man who has raised two children (along with their mother, who I will admit gets more than 50% of the credit) to become happy and successful young adults. I have two chapters in my book on exactly how I did this, which some people have told me are the most interesting chapters in the book. For those of you who don’t have kids, let me explain to you the correct way of dealing with a scenario like this.

If your small children leave a huge mess in the living room, you go to them and tell them to stop whatever they’re doing and clean it up.

That’s it. Problem solved.

I’ll address the excuses that I know some women will attempt to point out in the comments. If the kids are currently doing something productive, like homework, then you tell them to clean up their mess as soon as they’re done. If they bitch and complain, you just ignore them and leave. (They’re little kids. It doesn’t matter what they say.)  If they actually refuse to clean up their mess (which is unlikely if you’ve parented them correctly), you give them a time out, and do so without anger or lectures. Either way, you go right back to whatever you were doing.

It’s not your responsibility to clean up your kids’ messes. You have better things to do. It’s your kids’ responsibility. Cleaning up their messes for them will just make you angrier. Moreover, cleaning up your kids’ messes will ensure your kids grow up to be lazy, weak, self-entitled pricks who vote for people like Bernie Sanders. But that’s a topic for another time.

It didn’t occur to this mom to do any of this. She was angry they had left a huge mess, then instantly assumed that it was her responsibility to clean it all up, and become even angrier that she “had” to do this.

One more story…

Way back, about 16-17 years ago, when I was married and my kids were little, we moved into a new house with a nice, new lawn. One day, I was in the kitchen eating something when the wife walked in and told me to mow the lawn, since the grass was getting long.

“No problem,” I said. “I’ll have Josh mow it.” Josh was my son, and he was about nine years old at the time. This was the same age I was when I had to mow the lawn when I was a boy. Actually, since we lived further out in the country, I had to mow three big lawns. My son only had to mow two small suburban lawns; he was getting a good deal.

“No,” she said. “You should mow the lawn.”

“Me?” I said. “I have an able-bodied nine year-old son. Why should I mow it when I’ve got one of those? That’s one of the advantages of having kids, Sweetie. You can put ‘em to work. He’ll mow the lawn and I’ll pay him an allowance for it. It will be good.”

“He shouldn’t have to do it,” she said, growing irritated.

“Why not?” I said, quite confused. “I’m going to go work in the garage. He has nothing else better to do. Just look at him.” I pointed over to the living room. It was a Sunday morning and he was lying on the floor with his blanket watching cartoons.

She blew up. She launched into a huge tirade about how horrible it was to make your poor, innocent, fragile child do the dreadful, back-breaking work of pushing a self-propelled lawnmower around two small lawns for 20 minutes. That was a job for a husband, not a poor, innocent, fragile, little child.

Not knowing anything about women back then, I did what all ignorant men do when their wife or girlfriend gets upset: I used logic. I didn’t know back then that logic never works on angry women. It just makes them angrier.

I calmly, logically, and rationally explained to her that when I was younger than him, I mowed not just two lawns every weekend, but three. I also told her that unlike our nice, high-tech lawnmower that was partially self-propelled (the two front wheels moved automatically via an internal motor, making it much easier to push), I had to use a normal, cheapass lawnmower that I had to push manually because my father couldn’t afford anything better.

I also explained that most of my lawns were on a slope, so back when I was little, I had to push the lawnmower up steep inclines, whereas our son just has to mow two lawns on level ground. I also rationally explained that when I was a kid, our lawns were covered with large pinecones, and fragments of these would often fire out from the bottom of the lawnmower like small bullets, shooting me in the legs (which were often bare because I was wearing shorts for the hot summer), causing welts and bleeding. There were no pinecones in our lawns, so our son wouldn’t have this problem.

Essentially, not only was our son not going to do anything evil or difficult, but he would be doing something orders of magnitude easier than what I did when I was his age. I also would pay him every time he did it, teaching him cause and effect and a good work ethic.

Since man-logic always makes angry women even angrier, she turned brick red and exploded at me. She started screaming and yelling that I was a lazy man and a horrible father, and that I didn’t respect her. When she was all done, I simply shrugged and told her that I wasn’t mowing the lawn. He could mow it, and it wasn’t a big deal.

She fumed and left the room. A few minutes later, she was outside mowing the lawn, all the while with a furious, angry look on her face.

From then on, until we moved into a different house, every weekend during the warmer months she would angrily go mow the lawn while my son laid on the floor with his blanket and watched cartoons.

I don’t have the space here to relate all the other examples and stories that I’ve seen over my 44 years of life, where women purposely and needlessly create scenarios where they make themselves unhappy. I can think of 10 more stories like this just off the top of my head. You could argue that men do things like this too, and they do, but based on decades of anecdotal experience, the degree to which men sabotage their own happiness like this pales in comparison to how often women do this.

As I describe in detail in my book, women are incapable of long-term consistent happiness. The primary reason for this is that instead of happiness, women crave a range of positive and negative emotions. However, one of the other reasons is that they will go out of their way to avoid any perceived inconvenience for certain other people in their life, especially their kids, even when this kind of thing is more than warranted, reasonable, and a good idea for all involved.

You will never convince women, logically, to stop doing this. Likely, you’re going to see some comments here (or I will see in my email) from women complaining that the two women I described above were perfectly in the right. You will never convince a woman that taking on additional unhappiness for herself, for no reason, in scenarios like these harm not only herself, but the very people she’s trying to protect.

Some people will also assume that I’m somehow bashing women or against women by pointing this out. If you’re a longtime reader of my blogs, you know that I love women very much, beyond words. That’s why I want them to be happy, and that’s why it’s so sad to see women spend their entire lives doing these things to themselves.

Oh well. As usual, women can do whatever they want. I’ll be over here being happy.

73 Comments on “One of the Reasons Why Women Don’t Want To Be Happy

  1. “That was a job for a husband, not a poor, innocent, fragile, little child.”

    For her it was the lesser evil to mow herself. If her son had done it, the other women might have seen it and thought and talked what low quality husband she got. By doing it herself she could at least present a lie like “Its my hobby to mow the lawn” and thus keep her face.

    As it looks to me your ex was all about status and what others might think of her. This is often a sign of very low self esteem (even if she was hot, low self esteem is not off the table).

    The first example was also very typical – it may be that cleaning up was faster and easier for her, than confronting the kids. You know women often talk, talk, talk, bring a threat but NEVER execute it and the kids know this very well.

    Its the same with my 3 kids. When i say something, they do it. They KNOW when i say something i will do exactly what I said. My wife? She has to scream, get angry and still they will often simply ignore it. Why? Because she does exactly that – talk -> talk louder -> scream ….and then do it herself.

    Thats how women work. We got to accept it and thank god every day we are men and dont have these “features”.

    Sidenote: If you want a happy wife and you notice she is at “talk louder” or even “scream” state: Help her. How? Give the kids the same order she did and watch them do the task. She will be most grateful.

  2. The kid needs to do something , cartoons rot the mind and they want to spend time with their Dad learning something useful. The dad was being smart to introduce the boy to a chore that he could master and make a few bucks from other dads whose wives do not mow or have kids that mow lawns.

  3. I believe it’s no an inherent characteristic of women, but of emotionally immature people. The lack of sensibleness is a usual problem people who just can’t differentiate arguing with their guts from making a point have; they don’t care about where’s the truth, they only care about “who’s right”…

  4. Women who have all their basic needs satisfied crave the feelings of “having it worse” and the outrage that ensues. That’s how my marriage ended; I decided I needed none of the drama.

  5. I think this is a cultural/class view. Sounds pretty middle class. The working class family I came from made children do their fair share. This types of middle class views on children and work is what’s wrong the education system which is ran by middle class women. Also..the child welfare system which looks poorly upon women that require children to contribute similarly to the public school system is a factor in why women don’t feel.comfortable making children do work…this can result in a neglect/child endangerment case. Just ask the black/brown/white poor women in this country .

  6. From reading this article, to jumping on a social media, where I see one of my FB posting: “I am happy-angry, an astonishingly good combination”.

    I can do nothing more than smile 😀

  7. I totally agree BD, and it bogles my mind, as a woman, but I see virtually EVERY woman I know exhibiting those behaviors. Their happiness is short lived at best, and then they are actively engaging in behaviors that somehow stir up the pot, in an effort to create a rise in emotions, drama, etc. I’ve even tried coaching my mother of all people, who openly admits to other people she wishes she could just be more like me (and not a needy, emotional and unlogical creature lol).

    One would think, as beings capable of emotions and logic, that we ALL would put emphasis on maintaining consistent happiness. Why wouldnt you?? But perhaps women thrive on those explosions of emotions they can generate within…

  8. BlackDragon,

    Came across your blog in September’16, and it has opened my eyes to say the very least!

    I was such a Beta Guy, with such severe OneItis that i cant even describe it to you. She was my ex-girlfriend and after a relationship of 5 years, she dumped me when we both were around 20 years and got married to an elder guy of 25 ‘Provider Kind Guy’. In her courtship period of a couple of years, i did not have the ability to leave her and she was spending time with me all through those 2 years while she was still engaged to the ‘Provider Guy’ who she eventually married. I cant believe i was so beta that i couldnt tell her to fuck off in those 2 years and i was just enamored by her presence…i just was so in ‘love’ with her lol.

    After she was gone, i did go through a lot of pain like her absence and stuff and did not end updating for a long time maybe, 4 years. I kept thinking that she had made a mistake by choosing that guy and I cursed myself all those years (12 years) thinking I had done something terribly wrong. I had gotten so beta that whilst i did date two other women in those years, her memory was just hurting (male drama) and i ended up donating money to charitable causes in her name – “to translate her goodness into a peoples lives who were not so financially fortunate.” Wow! Can you believe me BD!

    I am so glad i came across your blog. I have been reading a lot of your articles and the number of things that i can relate to as ‘Former Beta Guy’ is incredible. Through your blog, i have learned how to keep my frame, how to be outcome independent, not be a pussy infront of a rampaging woman, cutting out female drama and more importantly not believing a woman when she ‘says one thing, but does something else’ . I have just transformed into an Alpha 2.0 frame and i must say that being outcome independent is truly truly amazing! I have learnt the art of how to soft next someone …or completely deal with a LSNFTE as you describe 🙂 I met my ex 12 years later and she had loads of feelings with me (not surprising) and i discovered that she hates sex (not surprising, decoded thanks to your articles). She has cheated on her hubby 5-6 years within her marriage and now i can completely understand that she societal programming may have driven her ‘batshit crazy’ not to forget that the 6 year age gap between her and her spouse, has ensured that her ‘Provider Hubby’ now pretty much looks much older than her and she obviously has lost interest in him. We used to text often but now thanks to your articles I have curbed it to 1 or 2 times a week. Yet to have sex, thanks to geographical distance 🙁

    But thanks so much BD, i am in control of my life now!

    Being Alpha 2.0 is fantastic! (Would love if you could leave a reply to this message..Thanks so much )

     

  9. Selfishly I would really love to hear more of your examples of behavior like this

    Shit, I could do the next 10 posts on just that. Not interested.

    I believe it’s no an inherent characteristic of women

    Incorrect. Read my book. Men and women are not identical.

    I think this is a cultural/class view. Sounds pretty middle class. The working class family I came from made children do their fair share. This types of middle class views on children and work is what’s wrong the education system which is ran by middle class women

    I had to think about that for a minute, and you might be right in some scenarios. I’ve known poor families where moms do this stuff as well, although with poor families I agree that often the kids have to do more much more work because of family logistics.

    And side note, it’s middle class and lower class, not middle class and “working class.” “Working class” is everyone, poor, middle, and rich, except for retired people and unemployed moochers.

    From reading this article, to jumping on a social media, where I see one of my FB posting: “I am happy-angry, an astonishingly good combination”.

    I can do nothing more than smile

    It’s the same when women say “I’m a sassy girl!” on their online dating profiles. They think being bitchy or argumentative is somehow attractive.

    But thanks so much BD, i am in control of my life now!

    Being Alpha 2.0 is fantastic!

    You’re very welcome.

  10. I’m one of the few that like ladies that are a bit sassy/bitchy.   They make wonderful lovers at times, but anytime you are in a personal or business relationship with these people they very much want to control.

    I agree on the consistency/happiness thing with women.  A range of positive and negative emotions.

    I’ve seen it more often than I can count.

    I could see many ladies reading this article, nodding their heads in agreement, but walk away feeling like they were insulted.

    What do you mean, I can’t ever fix it?    Is BD saying I’m doomed…………she might think.

    My girlfriend once had a thing where she felt very isolated because I didn’t want her singing at the top of her lungs in the house.   Talking her through this did little.   So, when she was busy with things, I would just start singing at the top of my lungs.  This is no longer an issue.

    Small example, possibly bad example.  You don’t want to be annoying and shove back in their face whatever they are doing, but I have found that if I’m subtle about it, and not an asshole, that the best way to get them to change a behavior is through simple demonstration.

    However, the calibration of those demonstrations is not always easy in my experience!

  11. “That was a job for a husband, not a poor, innocent, fragile, little child.”

    If a husband can do it, then so can a wife.  What she really meant was that it was a job for a slave (which is really what women think men are for).

    Would you have married her had you known in advance what a spoiled, entitled little snowflake she really was?

  12. The modern martyr complex drives many women.  If they are angry they must be suffering and that must be love.  Being angry = loving in her mind.  Her unspoken desire is to be seen as a martyr and guilt her man into suffering more so she didn’t have to then she could find contentment.  It is all a mirage, ever on the horizon never realized.

  13. BD, your story exemplifies why single mothers cannot properly raise boys to be men….America has at least 2 generations of single mother led households and then we wonder why so many guys are betas, simps, manginas. Without a strong male’s presence and masculine energy…young males will grow up to display feminine energy, thought and behavior.

  14. Would you have married her had you known in advance what a spoiled, entitled little snowflake she really was?

    I wouldn’t have married her either way. Legal monogamous marriage doesn’t work any more.

  15. “women crave a range of positive and negative emotions”

    Noticed this many years ago. I expressed it: “A man lives to do; a woman lives to feel.” It’s why, for instance, they watch soaps.

  16. I thought you were married to the woman who wanted you to now the lawn.  Did I missread something?  You were not married?

  17. I’m a single mom and my children do a large portion of the housecleaning. It’s not even an option for me to run around cleaning all their messes for them, I could never keep up. So I would have to agree that it is more of a middle class- two parent home sort of issue.

    It’s also true that our society puts a lot of guilt on moms for making their children do anything that resembles work. When I worked in a group home, with teenagers, it was actually illegal to make them mow the lawn because it was operating something motorized and they had to be 18. We couldn’t make 17 yr olds mow the lawn, though they did all kinds of other chores and hauled rocks as a consequence for poor behavior.

    It’s not entirely unlikely that you could have been reported for making a 9 year old mow the lawn. I actually had the cops called on us once by a neighbor because my son, who was 10 at the time, had climbed to the top of a tree in our front yard while I was in the house cooking dinner. The police told me I could be in trouble for child endangerment because of it. We live in a bizarre world these days where other people have all kinds of opinions on what you should or shouldn’t be doing with your kids.

    That said, I doubt it really had anything to do with her not wanting your son to do work. More likely she was resentful that she felt you weren’t pulling your weight around the house and were using your son as the scapegoat. She had expectations that the man of the house was the one who mowed the lawn and you weren’t living up to it. Maybe growing up her dad always did it or whatever.

  18. BD, just want to say ‘tons of thanks ‘ to you and your platform…your whole ideology is an awesome, organized, smart discipline, that has confirmed what i probably felt for a longggg while , but didn’t understand OR  know how to properly organize… I am “shitloads” happier know since I read, absorb and apply  what you layout in your posts. I still am not perfect… but hell at least I know what to do and understand thoroughly ” societal programming VS  biological programming”. Once you “get that” you can really start living… currently have about 3 solid FB‘s that don’t ask me for shit because I follow the rules now! Gotta admit i am playing provider to a hot ass black  20 YO ( i am white but only like black women…lol) , BUT i justify it because the girl basically has nothing and is trying to work and stand on her own ( no family that can support) …uber rides to work, and i helped her with a phone…Also I even told her this does not mean she owes me shit, no score keeping not a transaction, I feel good about helping in a limited way ..I even  told her all other requests like beauty, hair, clothes and non basics are out, so we will see…if she dumps me oh well at least I knew, but she said she  loves the way I give head so maybe she will stick around…lol!

  19. @Dad:
    “they start to realize I’m not going to commit to them and realize we’re just FB’s.”
    Their role should be clear from the start. Meeting FBs once every week or less frequently, not taking them on dates, not letting them sleep over and making sure you always have sex when you meet are the core rules to follow.

  20. Not knowing anything about women back then, I did what all ignorant men do when their wife or girlfriend gets upset: I used logic. I didn’t know back then that logic never works on angry women. It just makes them angrier.

    Well, I suppose there’s nothing you could have done anyway. You were living together, couldn’t just soft-next her, nor swing her mood. Maybe the best you can do is immediately cut to the “simply shrugged and told her that I wasn’t mowing the lawn”, or get out of her sight until she’s calmer. But in the end she would still be angry and full of resentment, doing the job while your son enjoys Cartoon Network.

  21. @Dad – I’ve deleted your comment and answered it in the other thread. Do not copy and paste multiple cross-post comments here at this blog. Make one comment in the correct thread, then be patient while awaiting my answer (if indeed I answer it at all).

  22. I thought you were married to the woman who wanted you to now the lawn.  Did I missread something?  You were not married?

    Of course I was married. I was very stupid by marrying her, as I described in detail here. Your original question implied that I would have married her if I knew for a fact she was a sweet, perfect girl, and that is not correct. If I had known better, I would not had married her at all, regardless of if the perfect woman or a spoiled snowflake. Long-term, legally-enforced monogamy doesn’t work, regardless of how wonderful or terrible a woman she is.

    BD, just want to say ‘tons of thanks ‘ to you and your platform…your whole ideology is an awesome, organized, smart discipline, that has confirmed what i probably felt for a longggg while

    You’re very welcome. I’m glad I could help.

    our society puts a lot of guilt on moms for making their children do anything that resembles work

    and

    It’s not entirely unlikely that you could have been reported for making a 9 year old mow the lawn.

    and

    I actually had the cops called on us once by a neighbor because my son, who was 10 at the time, had climbed to the top of a tree in our front yard while I was in the house cooking dinner.

    Lovergirl, you’re absolutely right, and this is one of the many reasons why I can’t wait to move out of the country. My once great culture has become utterly ridiculous, far too left-wing, and insane in the extreme. The more time I live here, the less I want anything to do with it.

    I wish it wasn’t the case, and I wish I didn’t feel that way, but I do.

  23. BD, are you adamant that it’s not possible? Surely there is a small percentage of women out there who will be able to achieve consistent long-term happiness if they make it a priority in their lives.

    (tried to post this before, hopefully it works this time)

  24. I suspect this kind of behavior, specially in the second example, goes more like this: she was trying to chalk up (I don’t know if that’s the right expression).

    1. Mow the lawn

    2. No, the kid should do this.

    3. No, you BD should do this.

    4. No, the kid should do this.

    5. Woman mows the lawn but now she can blame you later for that. Another one on her list.

    Women and self criticism don’t mix. They always try to blame others, never assume their own responsibility and they desperately try to appear like the ones that always suffer, always do the hard work, always sacrifice themselves for the rest, etc. etc.

    These behaviors are just tactics to appear like poor snowflakes when it’s time for drama.

  25. She mowed the lawn expecting you to come out, apologize, then take over mowing it yourself. I’m impressed that you never did.

  26. @BD

    Wow!  This is so much like my 19 year marriage I can’t believe it.  My 15 year old son would be playing video games and I would be working away in my home office.  We had a 3000 sq foot home with a pool and hot-tub and lived a very nice life so making sure our mortgage got paid would seem like the LOGICAL thing for me to be doing right?

    So, you can imagine the shock I would feel when my wife (ex-wife now) would stick her head in my office to tell me there is some trash on the side of the house that needs to be picked up! (looking back I think this is when I was transitioning from a Beta to an Alpha1 and began to notice how women think)

    When I would tell her to let are son know, she would do so occasionally (but with an aggravated look on her face) but even when she did, she had to replace it with a new task that he couldn’t do or shouldn’t do!

    I kept using logic when it came to this issue and would debate it for hours until exhausted.  Looking back, I realize just how much I have changed!  Change that I thank you for btw.

    I used to be a Beta/Alpha 1.0 when married and feel that only in the last 6 months have I finally been able to fully convert over to more of a Alpha 2.0.  IT IS DIFFICULT!

    But, boy is it a feeling of total freedom and liberty to be able to tell a lady “OK, that is fine” and smile no matter how she attempts to get my attention or control me.  The thing I am learning is that guys like this are so rare that they do not know how to react or respond to us.  I am such a solutions oriented & caring person that my problem was that I wanted to fix them.  I felt sad that they are broken, damaged, or just flat out nuts lol.  It still bothers me to this day.  However, I have learned that MY HAPPINESS and FREEDOM is more important than her happiness and that it is something that cannot be fixed.  I have just accepted this fact and damn was it difficult.

    My question for you is this:

    It is my guesstimate that 95% of all arguments I have had with every women in the last 3 years (since divorced) all leads back to the exclusive vs non-exclusive issue.  (think about that guys!)

    A) What % of the serial monogamous ladies eventually came around to accept your view on staying non-mong?

    B) What % would you say kept dating you after they knew your view on this?

    C)  Is it your view that most women need 2 kinds of men in their lives at the same time:

    1) a Beta/Alpha1 to satisfy their desire for control and allow them an excuse to continue to be unhappy (your atypical 6 month monogamous relationship) and

    2) an Alpha 2 for sex and fun (typical Mr “on and off” guy like me now) that provides the strong, manly backbone they respect for putting his foot down with her.

    It is pretty funny watching how women will poke and constantly “test” an Alpha 2.0 because we are so mysterious and like the Air to them.  The day that I made the jump from Apha1/Beta to Alpha2 was when I was dating (exclusive) one of my current ladies and she began to constantly test me to see if I would get jealous.  One day she had one of her ex’s mail her boxes of sex toys for her to take pics for him since he is a State away.   She left them open in the bedroom to show me of course.

    So, after about an hour of discussing this and drilling her w/ questions I instantly thought about YOUR BOOK and did a 180: I became more and more excited.  I became laid back.  I laughed at it how we now have some free toys to use.  I asked her if he has a hot GF that we can do a SS foursome with maybe?  I asked her which toys she would like to use and begin taking my clothes off in excitement.

    She was f*cking pissed!  She could not believe that I was not jealous and that I wouldn’t fight her on everything and throw a big fit like a big baby.   Just a few minutes ago she was all sexy and ready to play and now she can’t?  Hmmmm.  She asked me if I wanted to be free to do what I want?  I said I was flexible but that I’d prefer to be non-mong if she likes drama since I have a business to run etc.  “Plus, it would allow you the freedom to see your exs too since it appears that is what you want?  So lets try that out for a while and see how it goes ok?”, I said with an smile on my face.

    This eventually lead to use becoming non-mong and me breaking this curse.  Boy did it feel so damn good to finally move up to this spot and gain control of my life and relationships!  Thanks again for the resources….

    To all you guys out their that have not made the jump, it will be hard, very hard and they will test you constantly.  It is like the Alpha2’s are a new breed of man and they are now witnessing totally new reactions to the same old tricks they are used to playing.  IT FREAKS THEM OUT!   Their powers are gone.  They begin to feel powerless and panic.  Sometimes this will lead to them acting out like kids or they will keep stepping up the tests to higher and higher drama.  Constantly searching for your weak spot or your “hot button” and how they can control you.  When this occurs, hold tight cuz you are almost to Victory!  =) [insert BDs soft nexting here of course which can be even more difficult to do I have found. But it does work]

  27. It is my guesstimate that 95% of all arguments I have had with every women in the last 3 years (since divorced) all leads back to the exclusive vs non-exclusive issue.  (think about that guys!)

    You should not be arguing with women about this. I rarely do. You’re likely over-verbalizing.

    A) What % of the serial monogamous ladies eventually came around to accept your view on staying non-mong?

    Almost 100%.

    To be more specific, almost 100% of women who have sex with me twice stay in a nonmono relationship with me for a period of time before the first LSNFTE. 74% of women I have sex with have sex with me more than once, thus fall into this category. The other 26% one-night-stand me so we never get that far.

    B) What % would you say kept dating you after they knew your view on this?

    It depends on when I verbalized it. If we discussed it after after 3-5 months of dating, which is when you’re supposed to do this, almost 100%. If I said it on the first date, perhaps 40-50%, mostly based on their age. (A 23 year-old wouldn’t care; a 42 year-old would explode and throw a drink at me, though there are exceptions to both of those generalizations).

    Women don’t tell us all their sexual stuff on the first date, so we shouldn’t either. (How many women on a first date will tell a guy, “Oh yeah, I fucked a guy without a condom last week.”?)

    C)  Is it your view that most women need 2 kinds of men in their lives at the same time:

    1) a Beta/Alpha1 to satisfy their desire for control and allow them an excuse to continue to be unhappy (your atypical 6 month monogamous relationship) and

    2) an Alpha 2 for sex and fun (typical Mr “on and off” guy like me now) that provides the strong, manly backbone they respect for putting his foot down with her.

    Replace “Beta/Alpha1” with “Beta” and replace “Alpha 2” with “Alpha” and you’re closer to it.

    Do women need both of these men at the same time? Sometimes. Often just a beta will do it, and other times just an Alpha will do it. Sometimes they need both, yeah. Women are not static creatures like we are, and are always constantly changing their needs, particularly those under age 40.

  28. Logic from a man, that a woman is in love with, is absolute torture.  In jest, when we are arguing over something we both find funny, I tell her on occasion “I’m gonna torture you with logic now”…  I’m kidding but not really.

  29. Women are like this not only because of their make up, but because men either allow it, or they stand up for themselves and leave/get divorced and the court takes their money and only on rare occasions does he get equal custody of his kids.

    Right or wrong, men get married because we want kids. To do so for any other reason is stupid. Obviously that is not a smart reason either but we do it and that is another conversation.

    Once you are married and have kids scenarios like these are all too frequent. One that needs to be discussed is when the woman does nothing. She just lets the kids do what they want and dad after a long day has to over discipline to try and get the kids to do things that we did as kids because we were told to do it by mom and dad.

    I had one of those stay at home wives. She was miserable no matter how much I offered to do to help with the kids or give her time to herself. Our kids used the house as a dump and just threw food on the floor like it was Chuck E. Cheese. The more I said anything to her the more she hated me. How do you expect kids to be clean when moms a lazy slob. Despite plenty of money and freedom she did nothing to carry her weight in the marriage. Most women think the Minute they birth the kids they don’t have to do anything.

    Eventually I stood up for myself and just left. I was tired of living in filth and doing all the yard work to keep the conflict down. I found my bedroom and mancave slowly overcome by filth. Once you leave you are kept from your kids and the wife suddenly is overly focused on how to destroy you. If she spent part of this amount of time performing stay at home mom duties while I worked a high stress job and played yard boy on the weekends I wouldn’t have left no matter how bad all the other problems were that I’m not even mentioning.

    Women will always be miserable no matter what you do for them and your family. No man is perfect and they just find the faults and punish you because of her own happiness. The bad habits they find such as eating, watching repeats of Sex in the city, and anything else that makes them not produce come out because you allow it.

    It’s amazing after a nasty custody battle just to win equal custody now that years later my kids come to my house and it’s clean because they know thats the way it will be and they help with things where moms house is still dirty.

    Women like to say men are angry and bitter but it’s the opposite. They are miserable and can’t be happy no matter how many men want them because they have giant boobs. Nothing pleases them long term.

    Most men want kids and if you do you will deal with this problem at some point. Hiring a surrogate or having bastard kids isn’t in the mind of most men not yet anyway. When we stop marrying and live a life of being single dads with no regrets things may not change but we won’t dealing with these miserable women in marriage situations

  30. She mowed the lawn expecting you to come out, apologize, then take over mowing it yourself. I’m impressed that you never did.

    AKA betaization, which we all know over time leads to decreased sexual attraction. He gave a simple solution (let our son do it), she not only refused it but also refused to talk in a reasonable manner.

    SHE decided (alone) to do it by her own and be pissed about it for a very long time. Simple as that.

  31. BD, are you adamant that it’s not possible? Surely there is a 1-2% of women out there who will be able to achieve consistent long-term happiness if they make it a priority in their lives.

    1-2%? Maybe with some more masculine personality types of women, or higher testosterone women, sure. There are always rare exceptions to every rule.

  32. BD was right to make his son mow the lawn. I say this because I was an ESL teacher in South Korea for 3 years. My co-teacher (a female) use to get upset at me for making the kids clean the desks if they wrote on them. I think this is generational because my mom (born 1963 in Jamaica), ALWAYS made me clean up after myself. In Caribbean culture, the idea of a child not cleaning up after themselves is unheard of.

  33. “I thought you were married to the woman who wanted you to now the lawn. Did I missread something? You were not married?”
    @Nick – he’s not married at all Nick, probably struggled to get a woman most of his life and has therefore channelled all his anger and resentment towards women into words to add to his blog, making up make-believe scenarios about how he treats his FBs and LTRs in an desperate attempt to get more men to go MGTOW

    Misery loves company after all therefore here he is trying to brainwash as many vulnerable fellas as possible to adopt his way of thinking. It’s unhealthy, the best thing for any sane man to do is try talking to a man who is actually STILL happily married (oh believe me, they exist) and prepare to have your mind-blown. As they will no doubt tell the complete opposite of what this Elliot Roger wannabe has been spewing to all you naive men.

    Look I’m not denying that there aren’t bitchy women out there who use men but typically the classic defence mode that a former doormat male will go into is to paint ALL (or most, as in 95% of) females with the same brush. Women do it too, she dates a bunch of d*cks, they -unsurprisingly – treat her like crap to the point where she gives up and swears off men for life, under the assumption that ‘they’re all the same’ but a decent men will scream ‘its your fault for only dating d*cks’. Well vice versa, the problem lies more with you than them, if you want to stop being used – STOP DATING USERS and try finding a decent woman for once.

    And guess what – a decent woman can be spent on without it going to her head. A sad state of affairs if in today’s day and age it physically pains you to spend your precious money on the woman you love because ‘hey we’re supposed to be equals so why should I have to spend more on her’. Yeah why should we bother at all to do anything generous nowadays out of the goodness out our hearts. Let’s not buy presents for our parents, our best friends or our children either nor give to charity nor pet a dog. Who wants to be the bigger person, apparently it’s more ‘alpha’ to just remain bitter, stingy and resentful for the rest of your inevitable lonely lives…

  34. Valerie did you have an actual point to make? You’re free to disagree with the points I make using points of your own for a rational discussion, but tossing around invective with no actual points isn’t allowed on this blog.

  35. he is trying to brainwash as many vulnerable fellas as possible to adopt his way of thinking.

    I suppose that’s a possibility. Perhaps another possibility is that we are grown ass men and what he has to say is congruent with how we see the world. Maybe, just maybe, we are agents capable of critical thinking.

  36. I agree with the premise that the vast majority of women like a range of emotions. For example most woman (and most men) will start arguments over absolutely silly stuff.

     

    However, most the examples here are about woman born in the United States after about 1960. I have a lot of experience with foreign born woman and generally speaking their relationship behavior is much better than American woman. Usually when they experience my frame they are very sweet and nice. Even other Western Woman are usually better than American woman. For example, based on how they treat their nieces and nephews, my former Spanish woman and English woman would never tolerate a child not cleaning up after himself.

  37. Valerie/Susie, don’t post under different names and pretend you’re two different people. How pathetic. Bye now.

    Everyone else, please drop this this part of the conversation. Thanks.

  38. Too funny.  This Valarie/Susie troll posts just goes to prove BDs original story point – that angry women get more angry with Man Logic!   So, why should he or we waste time with it….

  39. I think a lot of this is about being a mother, not a woman. Motherhood is a completely thankless, draining, neverending daily drudgery job and it seems to drive most women somewhat crazy. Because the people they love more than anything are the people who have ruined her life and bring her the most misery. Or another way to look at it is that if being a mother wasn’t so miserable, then mothers wouldn’t love their kids so much. Biology creates the intense love bc otherwise mothers would abandon or murder their children.

    I think the cognitive dissonance between her ideals (being a mother is the best and most important thing and I love being a mother) and the reality (being a mother is the most important thing and I love my kids but hate being a mother and can’t escape, and I’m not allowed to admit those feelings to myself or others) create the craziness and anger. If she takes it out on her husband it’s bc he happens to be there and can absorb the rage. If he wasn’t there, she’d mostly take it out on the kids. I see many women who act like this who suddenly become much happier and less crazy once the kids get older and more independent or move out.

    I know two women with young kids that don’t act like this…one has a super rich husband who works all the time so she doesn’t have to deal with him and he pays for a housekeeper and she doesn’t work, so her life is easy and nothing to be mad about. The other is in the opposite situation and is a single mom with 5 kids and she basically just accepts the chaos and insanity and admits she sometimes wants to run away rather than repressing it, and she’s mostly happy and not crazy. But the rest mostly fit this pattern.

    Mowing the lawn was just classic stacking the deck so she would have something to hold over you later. It is pretty common that if someone can’t directly control or force someone to do what they want, they instead do favors or work for the person so that later they can call those favors in and guilt the other person into doing what they want. I work with a guy who does this with people…will do a favor or give a gift that you may not even want but if you accept it you better be damn sure he will remind you of it forever and then use it as leverage to extract what he wants. It’s Godfather behavior. Moms tend to put a more martyr like spin on it but it’s the same thing, at base. Also not that different at guys who can’t directly attract a woman into giving him what he wants sexually so he gives gifts and does favors that she might not even want so that later he can complain about everything he did for her and try to guilt her into sex and feel justified in being mad like he’s a martyr.

    Lesson is, be very very careful about letting people do things for you or accepting gifts or favors, bc once you do, you’re indebted, whether you want to be or not. It’s only safe if you know that someone isn’t the “account keeping” type and just likes to do things or give gifts bc they truly enjoy it. Unfortunately, lots of people *pretend* that they’re just doing favors and giving gifts because they enjoy it and love you…but then later if you don’t reciprocate in the manner they expect or demand by doing what they want, suddenly they are angry and listing out everything they’ve done resentfullyon, thus revealing that the real motivation was to stack their accounts with you and now they feel as if they’ve been ripped off even though you never agreed to the unspoken deal that they secretly had in their mind the whole time.

  40. @KryptoKate

    Hmmm.  Some very good points but it seems that this “favor issue” you bring up could also create an issue where you assume that anything good a guy does for you is because he wants something in return.  Besides, couldn’t I argue that “true love” means one sacrificing and doing something for you even though they may not want to?  We are all incentive creatures living in an incentive driven world.

    Even if it is because a man wants something in return – so what?  How does one prove this?

    It is just a system that many women have devised so they can claim men are selfish or manipulative and therefore not give him any credit for the good things we do in advance.  This can lead to very paranoid and accusing way of thinking too.

    So maybe try accepting the favors as what they are and then giving that person something they would like too for a change and see how it feels?  At the end of the day…..they did something NICE for you before you did anything nice for them.  Give em some slack cuz they took on all the risk =)

  41. I think many guys who do favors for girls they’re drooling over aren’t consciously scheming. It works more subtly than that; I’ll give a different example: it is quite plausible that men tend to sit unlike women, legs more spread out, “to show off their balls”…except that in “to show off/ to express/to convey…” you have to read biological intentionality, not a conscious human one, same as “we sneeze to eject foreign particles” but less automatic. Yes, often a guy will do you favors to fuck you, and yes, often guys have the delusion that acting nice means they’re owed sex; but the general reason beta AFCs (and even some alphas) want to help the hot chick with her groceries or whatever isn’t that they’re consciously plotting “ahah, that has got to increase my chances of bedding her”. Many of them do this completely on the fly in circumstances where the likelihood of seeing the random girl again is vanishingly small. Big boobed blonde has trouble with her luggage and I’m only in this city for the afternoon and zero chance of pitching a date…and still, “fuck yeah let’s help the big boobed blonde”. We’re probably wired for intrinsic enjoyment of helping hot chicks because in prehistory, “on the fly” doesn’t exist, you’re in a small tribe.

    As for women’s/mothers’ “stacking the deck” behavior, I don’t know. I do think women are different from men, but when the subject is how women “don’t want happiness”, “like to be the martyr and then have archives to pull from”, I feel compelled to point out that this blog’s readership is not representative of men in general: we’re more analytical, hedonistic and goal-oriented as men go, and since we’re attracted to women, we pay more attention to women and what they do. That could be twisting our perception and maybe men in general suck at this stuff just as much as women do. With that said, one of the rare Return of Kings articles that I actually like is one by Marcus Aurelius (“How the viral hashtag ‘Waste his time 2016’ will backfire”) that does describe one way in which men deal with problems differently from women, and it’s kinda funny and one of the reasons I haven’t completely shunned the website.

  42. @ CurtsOKC Well in my case, my biggest weakness that is easiest to exploit in me is guilt. It’s really the major emotion I haven’t conquered (well, that and maybe pride). So I don’t like people doing favors for me or giving me gifts because the risk of them being able to exploit my guilt about it later isn’t worth it to me. I don’t like the feeling of being emotionally indebted. My mother pulled this on me my formative years (not consciously I’m sure), and I hated it.

    However, if I wasn’t so prone to feeling guilt it would be easy to accept favors bc I wouldn’t care whether or not I reciprocated later. My younger brother takes all kinds of money from my parents bc he has no guilt or feeling of obligation to repay them emotionally or otherwise, whereas I do which is why I preferred to be desperately poor rather than take money from them when I was his age.

    I myself like to give gifts and treat friends to dinner or events but that’s honestly because I enjoy it for myself the pleasure of that person’s company or my pleasure at their enjoyment of the gift is its own reward. And there are plefty of people like that but also plenty who are not, and who are always tracking “relationship accounts” and who has done more. I am sure there are some people (female friends mostly) who might be “using me” to some extent bc they like me paying for stuff, but that’s fine, it doesn’t bother me too much.

    People’s motivations get complicated bc there’s also an aspect of favors/gifts that are about publicly claiming a person or showing off. Think about valentine’s day…some women don’t seem to care about the gifts they get for any reason other than being able to post photos of what they got on fb to prove how valued they are or something. Or the guy I’m dating gets hurt if he gets me something and I don’t publicly acknowledge it on FB bc he wants to claim me and everyone to know.

  43. @ Gil Yes I agree that a lot of this is not intentional or conscious. The motivation is not premeditated, but it’s still ultimately revealed by a person’s anger later on if the terms of the unspoken implicit “deal” they thought they were getting, though only they really ever agreed to it, is violated.

    Also fully endorse the fact that many behaviors red pill guys complain about in women are just as common or almost as common in men but they’re not interested in what men do and don’t analyze it as much. Those guys usually don’t pay attention to what non attractive non young women are doing either, so it’s already a small group they’re focused on and there’s plenty of confirmation bias. They also tend to think all guys are of the ultra analytical rational type bc thats how they are. But while most highly analytical people are guys, most guys are not highly analytical.

  44. @KryptoKate

    Yes I can see how guilt can cause this.  Us men however are way to simple to try and figure most women out.  It’s just a mess of a task.  It is very exhaustive and a brain drain.  Not fun at all.  I am tired just dissecting the 4 paragraphs above about guilt and that is only 1 topic of many that women throw at us continually if we are in a mong relationship.

    This is why I choose to keep things VERY simple!  Actually, a lady I met just couple days ago asked me what my relationship status was.  I said, “well considering I only have 2 that I ever use and they are ONLY Married or Single.  All dating falls under the Single group.  I am currently dating just like you so that means I am not married and/or currently still single”  =))

    Her head exploded cuz she could not figure out how to create drama, guilt, traps, rules, etc.  She was literally speechless lol.

    She then asked if I have a monogamous GF.  I said, “….again, my status is single.  If I was married, I promise I would have told you.”

    It was hilarious.  Like asking a Blonde how to calculate MPH or something.  She could not figure out what to do with this….

  45. Wow, great parenting advice which, I have to say, I didn’t expect to see here.
    I guess I am one of the few women who want to be happy. No nine year old boy should be lying around watching carrtoons while his mother mows the lawn. I was raised by a Mom who was always the Martyr (even though we all did a lot of chores and work it was never as much as her) and took out her unhappiness on all of us.
    Not me!
    As soon as they were old enough ( daughter and sons) my children did their age appropriate fair share and we were all happy as a result .
    I raised three children into now college age, young adults and have to say I loved and still love being a mom. My children are much different then their peers. They are self-sufficient, hard working, polite and confidant. They all know how to cook and clean. Not just my daughter but my sons also. Therefore, they do not live in the disgusting mess that most college guys do. My daughter can change her own tires and mow a lawn better then most grown men.
    I absolutely love hanging out with them and still provide guidence but more as another adult in a friendship,mentoring role. They actually seek me out because I was a happy Mom
    Martyrdom is not for me and I am one happy women. Instead of being a “helicopter parent” I can enjoy my freedom and have three great kids who I can have a great time with and be proud of.

  46. The cleaning messes part reminds me of my cousin. He really doesn’t make his kids clean their own messes, and doesn’t mind if the house is messy (heck, their basement is a disaster area, which is ashame since they are wasting a lot of extra space).

    I will switch gears, though. Blackdragon, have you ever heard of this guy:

    https://www.youtube.com/user/SteveHoca/videos

    He is a MGTOW-type guy who used to be affiliated with TFL (or True Forced Loneliness, a You Tube movement started by Bill122460 or Bill Greathouse).

    Steve has videos with these titles:

    MGTOW: Most guys won’t be getting laid anytime soon

    MGTOW: Why I have no sympathy for blue pill men

    MGTOW: Today’s women don’t want or need sex

    40 year old women won’t want you when you are their age

  47. @JB
    Just curious, but Is there a reason you’re asking? Listing a bunch of video titles of some random MGTOW guy is a little strange if there’s no point…

  48. @JB
    Just curious, but Is there a reason you’re asking? Listing a bunch of video titles of some random MGTOW guy is a little strange if there’s no point…

    I was just showing it to him. Don’t worry about it.

  49. lazy, weak, self-entitled pricks who vote for people like Bernie Sanders.

    Please explain how Sanders supporters are lazy, despite the fact that at almost every high-level college in the country, from undergrad to PhD programs, you will find overwheming support for him and his policies. Is everyone who goes to college lazy? Seems like it would be the opposite, no?

  50. Is everyone who goes to college lazy?

    If they want me to pay for it, yes.

    But I don’t debate politics at this blog. If you really want to go into those topics, post about them over at my other blog and I’d be happy to debate them over there.

  51. I don’t necessarily understand the point of the parable. Sure if the kid makes a mess, he should clean it up.

    However the lawn? Technically it was your choice to own a home with a yard, not the little tyke’s. I understand doing your fair share of the housework, but I never mowed the lawn as a kid, and I did a lot of housework.

    If I did, one can certainly argue whether that should be done at age 9 or age 13 or whatever. Let’s be honest it’s tougher for a 9 year old kid to push a lawnmower around than a grown man, and most of that shit that you did is a relic of a bygone era.

    I’m just saying, it’s not a foregone conclusion that a 9 year old should be your work-slave and mow the lawn over you.

    When I was a kid, from a relatively poor working class family, we had some Mexicans do the job for the whole block (we had small yards). My parents were divorced and they both have Mexicans mow the lawn for extremely cheap. That’s the real common sense answer. I mean you need someone to trim the hedges too and you sure as hell ain’t going to have a 9 year old take out the chainsaw.

    No wonder your ex got pissed, ha.

  52. However the lawn? Technically it was your choice to own a home with a yard, not the little tyke’s.

    Children have no freedom; freedom is only for self-sufficient adults. (That’s why I couldn’t wait to be an adult when I was a kid.) Since I support them 100% and pay for them to live, I can make them do whatever chores I wish (within reason of course).

    Let’s be honest it’s tougher for a 9 year old kid to push a lawnmower around than a grown man, and most of that shit that you did is a relic of a bygone era.

    Re-read what I did when I was a kid. It had nothing to do with the “era,” which was just the 1980s, not the 1800s. It was about the physical landscape of the yard.

    I’m just saying, it’s not a foregone conclusion that a 9 year old should be your work-slave and mow the lawn over you.

    Yes it is. As long as he’s able to do it, and he was. Again, the lawnmower was self-propelled.

    I mean you need someone to trim the hedges too and you sure as hell ain’t going to have a 9 year old take out the chainsaw.

    Correct, but that’s completely inappropriate. A 9 year-old pushing a self-propelled lawnmower on two small, flat lawns is perfectly fine.

  53. @BD: how far does it really go when you say “children have no freedom” and “I can make them do whatever chores I wish” ? Would you have punished him if he had refused to mow the lawn ?
    I find the idea that kids have no freedom “because I’m the one spending on them” very flawed: a kid never asked to exist, it’s the parent who chose the conception or adoption of a child. So there’s a kind of circularity in expecting them to obey in the name of being their provider. The relative ease of a task compared to whatever you used to do as a kid has no argumentative value if your point is that being a tutor entitles you to using them for chores.

    I’d ask my kid to get a chore done if I’m feeling lazy, but if he clearly hates it, he’s free to go. I’d only oblige him if the task has to do with him/his room etc. A kid owes you exactly zero for spending on him, he’s not a stay at home wife who had a prior agreement with you.

  54. Would you have punished him if he had refused to mow the lawn?

    If it was a pattern of behavior, yes. The very first time he refused, no.

    I find the idea that kids have no freedom “because I’m the one spending on them” very flawed: a kid never asked to exist, it’s the parent who chose the conception or adoption of a child

    I agree philosophically, but then what is your point in the real world? Never make your kids do anything around the house and raise them to have no work ethic and be lazy?

    I’d ask my kid to get a chore done if I’m feeling lazy, but if he clearly hates it, he’s free to go.

    Yep, then you’re going to raise a lazy child who will be an unhappy adult. And likely a beta too.

    The attitude you and Johnny are demonstrating is exactly why we have the lazy, entitled, whiny Millennial generation today, and why the generation after that will be even worse; modern day parents think making kids have some level of responsibility and chores is “mean” or something.

    Philosophy is great as long as it stays in your mind. But sometimes, when you try to project it outward, the results are disastrous.

  55. You could be right. But I was raised by an Alpha 1.0 father who by no means was a laxist (oh my god, no no no), and never ceased to hammer into my brain that I had to work hard, and yet I can’t remember an occurrence of him ever giving me an actual chore other than the general “clean up your mess” thing: every time he asked me to do something outside of that, like garden work or anything, it was always a take it or leave it request. He was absurdly rigid in other areas (hello religion!), but not this one. And yet I’m a millennial who immediately perceived that other kids my age were “too spoiled”.

    If I ever have a son, there are two areas where I’ll definitely pressure him to learn some work ethic: he has to do some some math (school be damned if these things become ‘optional’ in classes, as they very well might; I’ll sit him down and have him do that crap. Lack of understanding of basic math, I have found, is responsible for a huge part of the stupidity we see nowadays, as strange as this may sound) and later he has to lift some weights. In other words, I’m ‘forcing’ him to improve himself only. And he can learn ’cause and effect’ (as you say in your book) just fine if I make him do chores with an actual payment, money or else.

  56. Why women aren’t happy, by Chris Rock. If any men reading this are interested in monogamous marriage, make sure you watch the whole thing, because the ending is important:

  57. MGTOW-type guy who used to be affiliated with TFL (or True Forced Loneliness, a You Tube movement started by Bill122460 or Bill Greathouse).

    I’ve spent a great deal of time trolling Hoca and Greathouse years ago, because both of them are no better than SJWs who think that chicks make less money than dudes all sex is rape and shit. And like most SJWs, they are running from their insecurities and using a stupid movement to psychologically project their insecurities onto others. BD did an article about this and here’s my interpretation of it.

    There are two types of MGTOW, ones like myself who just kind of casually date and have casual sex with less than zero interest in starting a family (seeing as mine got destroyed pretty much in front of my very eyes it gave me a good reference experience) and who don’t place chicks any higher or lower than anyone else. I mean I don’t care for the women’s movement and I think its an empty cause, but its not gonna prevent me from getting with chicks. Hell I’ve dated feminists who agree with me when I say that they are fighting sexism with sexism.

    Then you have losers like Hoca and Greathouse who think that there’s some weird conspiracy against them and they just blame feminism for things that they can (very) easily fix themselves. Feminist philosophies wouldn’t even affect them because they are too weak to be affected. And secretly they will throw ANY chick who gives them any attention on a pedestal and worship everything they do and are (which is what weak man boys do). Avoiding chicks isn’t alpha. Its gay. Which is fine, but god dammit don’t tell me you don’t get with chicks and call yourself a heterosexual.

    I’m all for taking a short amount of time off chicks, but going “herbivore” is not a good solution.

  58. Joelsuf, I wonder if Hoca and Greathouse even get women (or try to understand them).

    On one vid, Hoca said that a woman that he was out on a date with told him that he didn’t make enough money for her. Now, I wasn’t there, and didn’t see the interaction, but it’s possible that it could have been some type of test.

    Also, there was another vid where Greathouse talks about a young (I think 19 years old) lady he tried to help out. He said that he paid her costs to keep her out of jail, he got her a job, and he let her live with him. Apparently (according to Bill), this young lady was home alone one day when someone stopped by. The lady said “You must be Bill’s little girlfriend”. And, the young lady said “Eeewww. I wouldn’t give him the time of day”. And Bill said “See, how’s that supposed to make someone feel”.

    I don’t know the whole situation (I wasn’t there, thank goodness), but I’m guessing that this young lady may have thought that Bill did all that for her so he could take the backdoor route into her pants. That doesn’t usually work.

  59. I wonder if Hoca and Greathouse even get women (or try to understand them).

    They don’t. Hoca is a little older than BD and he missed out on having a decent love life in his late teens and 20s and foolishly believed that there is some “time limit” that dudes have on getting laid or something. His argument was that no chick wants a dude over 30 or something.

    As far as Greathouse, his wife left him so because of that (and because of his epiphany that you can’t just white knight the pants off of chicks like you could back in the day), he created the TFL movement and it became a religion of sorts for beta and omega MGTOW. The TFL movement also produced kids like Elliot Rodger and Seuing Ho Cho (sp?).

    Its like I said, they created their little movement just so they could get positive opinions from younger kids who are sexually frustrated. Electronic Circle Jerking at its best. And it isn’t original, all they really did was just copy and paste what feminists have been doing for decades now.

    I’m guessing that this young lady may have thought that Bill did all that for her so he could take the backdoor route into her pants. That doesn’t usually work.

    Correction: That never works. Paying for a date? Sure (if you invited. If she invited, SHE PAYS btw). And look, let’s be honest here: If I was 19 years old, and some chick my mom’s age who I wasn’t really attracted to did a whole bunch of favors for me and then started making moves on me, I wouldn’t be too comfortable either.

    Bill’s mind is in the middle ages, and he’s a pathetic victim of his own delusions.

    I really hope BD doesn’t mind me dragging TFL through the mud, but since it was brought up I had to say my peace. TFL = Feminism in that it encourages a victim mentality, blames the opposite sex for stuff that is either imaginary or negligible, and relies on Dunning-Kruger for its “facts.”

  60. Correction: That never works. Paying for a date? Sure (if you invited. If she invited, SHE PAYS btw). And look, let’s be honest here: If I was 19 years old, and some chick my mom’s age who I wasn’t really attracted to did a whole bunch of favors for me and then started making moves on me, I wouldn’t be too comfortable either.

    Bill’s mind is in the middle ages, and he’s a pathetic victim of his own delusions.

    I really hope BD doesn’t mind me dragging TFL through the mud, but since it was brought up I had to say my peace. TFL = Feminism in that it encourages a victim mentality, blames the opposite sex for stuff that is either imaginary or negligible, and relies on Dunning-Kruger for its “facts.”

    What’s sad is that Bill and Steve also had a 300+ pound guy named Dwayne Holloway as part of their movement. He was all butthurt about how he couldn’t get a date, believe it or not.

    One thing that those three liked to do: Trash David DeAngelo and his materials. When I liked a girl 11 years ago at work, and I finally wanted to figure out women (I was a beta who was around nothing but betas with women), his material was the first stuff I read (Double Your Dating).

    Now, some people (like the Attraction Forums) think that he’s out of date now (they recommend Magic Bullets). However, David’s material gave me a preliminary understanding of women that I never came close to getting anywhere else.

    And, those twits had to rip on him. Bill and Steve each did videos on him. Bill called him David De-scamelo, and Steve (who did a six-part video series on him) said how women love wussies (in spite of what David says). He also didn’t really seem to have much of a refutation of his material, from what I remember.

  61. One thing that those three liked to do: Trash David DeAngelo and his materials…Now, some people (like the Attraction Forums) think that he’s out of date now (they recommend Magic Bullets).

    Nearly all PUA lore is out of date now, but it wasn’t a decade ago when the TFL Trifecta talked shit. Its always been a scam tbh, but that’s how it is with a lot of improvement that isn’t contained in a book, not just PUA lore.

    I knew this even when I discovered PUAism a decade ago. Lovesystems hasn’t been relevant since 2010 or so. RSD hasn’t been much better, and they openly use hired actresses in their “in field” videos. As far as Roosh…well, I don’t think we even need to talk about that one.

    I remember Dwayne Holloway. I started feeling bad for him, but then realized that I know dudes who are fatter than him who get chicks. Sure, the chicks were just as fat but guess what that’s how it is. If you aren’t traditionally attractive, the chances of you getting with a traditionally attractive chick isn’t as high. That’s just how it is.

    But becoming an herbivore which is what the TFL trifecta purports, is not a solution. Going after what I call “looksmatches” (I think BD calls it the “target market”), putting your ego away, becoming outcome independent and treating others on a case-by-case basis is a solution. Case in point: Japan. That nation is full of unmotivated beta and omega males, and its crumbling…fast.

    Look I was just as bad as the TFL Trifecta up until 25 or so (ironically enough, when they first arrived on the scene). I used to think there was some weird conspiracy against me (like they thought) etc. But when life defining moments come at you, you gotta know what’s good in the long run. Giving up on chicks provides temporary relief and a very massive ego boost. But that goes away. Learning how to solve the problem of your sexlessness is very painful out of the gate, but its ultimately more rewarding. But I’m sure the TFL trifecta have some kind of excuse for that too.

  62. With looks, I don’t know if the “looksmatches” concept would be what I would agree with 100%. I don’t believe in leagues a whole lot (especially on social lines because I think those are BS). Also, as Social Kenny has stated in this entry, the looks thing may be more a result of media programming than anything else:

    https://kennyspuathoughts.com/2015/06/16/do-looks-matter-the-final-say-on-looks/

    However, I separate looks (facial structure, hair, eyes, teeth, and height) from fat, which Dwayne Holloway is (or was. Don’t know what he looks like anymore). Even though I don’t believe that much in leagues, people like him would be in a very low league.

  63. the looks thing may be more a result of media programming than anything else

    Its completely nuanced. The real media programming actually teaches dudes that if they have body image issues they need to “man up” and “fix them” or in some extreme cases, “accept it” while if chicks have body image issues then its “a man’s responsibility” to “treat her like you would any other chick who isn’t fat.” The media programs people (dudes, chicks, and trans) to always give chicks agency: Positive agency. It programs people that dudes are not only capable, but likely to be more shallow and sexually harmful than chicks. Its the other way around.

    The nuance comes in when dudes follow this and sell themselves short. The threshold is way, WAY lower than the media would like others to think. You can be slightly overweight like myself and BD and still get with traditionally attractive chicks, but that also means you have to bring a lot to the table in other areas (outcome independence and like I said, giving agency only to those who have won you over).

    Even if you are massively over or underweight, if you have a deep social circle and part of a community, you can get a decent looking chick. This is exactly what has happened to all of my buddies who have paired off. They meet their life mates through friends or community and didn’t waste their time doing night game which is what both the media AND PUAism preach (through really bad pop and hip hop songs and “infield footage” respectively).

  64. @anthony

    I texted that video clip to one of the ladies I’m dating that was giving me some drama last week about being monogamous and she said, “well we just need to stop dating then because I can’t debate Chris Rock…”. Lmbo

    Man it pissed her off like u wouldn’t believe.

    Shows you just how true it is lol

  65. @ CurtsNOKC

    Only God knows how many married men need to watch this video. I learned my lesson the hard way via girlfriend. Soooooo glad marriage and kids never came into the picture. Because of BD, I am too far gone to ever go back to the old me.

  66. Amazing post and so true! I had a problem with the neighbour upstairs but instead of going up and speaking to them about it, which was the SIMPLEST thing to do, I blew up to the point he had to come downstairs to talk to me! And you know what he said? He said ‘you should have spoken to me’. I drive myself nuts trying to avoid inconveniencing others!

  67. Telling me to mow the lawn would go over as well as if I told her to make dinner.  I had no issues with asking any of my 4 sons and or daughter to clean up or accomplish a task.  Rather yell and threaten as my wife does, I do the task with them until they are doing it themselves.  Treat is as something that needs to be done and not a chore.  Something we can do together.

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