first date advice, first online date, online dating advice, meaning of an open relationship, alpha male traits

My story continues! Here’s part two of my history with women. If you haven’t read part one yet, you probably should or you may not understand everything; it’s right here. When we last left teenage me, I was in high school with hardcore oneitis for a girl. Now I roll into my senior year, much more confident. Shortly after that, a very big event occurs…

Divider

By the time I hit senior year in high school, while I was still pining for Christy, I had built up enough confidence to ask girls out on dates. Even very pretty ones. I could walk up to a super hot girl, even one I barely knew, and ask her out on a date right there. I couldn’t do this with all the hot girls, but I could with many, particularly if they were younger than me.

Even when they said no, I felt bad, but I was impressed with myself. It was a 180-degree difference from the terror I felt regarding women just four or five years earlier.

Many said no when I asked them out…but some said yes. This taught me something very valuable that would come in handy later:

Lesson Two

Whenever a pretty girl says no to you, never forget that there’s always another pretty girl right behind her who will probably say yes.

Years later, after my divorce and getting into the dating game, even with limited experience, I still only dated very attractive women. I never fell into the trap so many men do, of only having sex with mediocre women and then having some kind of reluctance or complex about sleeping with pretty women. I think this experience in high school was the reason.

When I was in high school asking these girls out, I didn’t see the point in asking out the average looking girls. It didn’t seem logical to me. If I only asked out the hot girls, if any said yes, I’d be really happy. Whereas if I only asked out ugly or average girls, if any said yes, I’d be mildly satisfied. If I was going to get shot down, I might as well be shot down by really hot women.

When you’re out on a date with a really pretty girl, you’re not thinking about the three or four other girls who said no to you. Instead, you’ve got a big smile on your face. This was my experience in high school.

I went out on lots of first, second and third dates with a few several pretty girls that year, impressing my friends and my sisters (who went to the same high school as me), which, as a teenager, was important to me. Regardless, I never got past making out and squeezing a few boobies. The negative Catholic programming from my mother was still strong in my mind, even stronger than my burning sexual desire.

In 1990 I finished high school and entered the work world at age 18. I could see that college was simply a way of going into debt and doing useless homework instead of making money, so I skipped it. For several years I worked very hard and purposely avoided women and sex regardless of how much it hurt to do so, which it did. I was focused on my overall life goal back then: making $100,000 a year.

At around age 22 I started working with a woman who I’ll call Penny. She was cute, funny, vivacious, just a little crazy, and we became close friends. She was about 40 years old at the time, and married. Though she wasn’t blonde, she had the “Christy” body I had been wired to like (shorter, long hair, big boobs, big butt, but not fat).

Our conversations were natural and effortless. She made me feel relaxed, happy, and excited all at the same time. She was very feminine, which always gets me excited. We often talked about sex and dating too. It wasn’t something I did on purpose; it just happened. Like I said, talking to Penny was effortless.

In an attempt to protect my young and fragile ego, I even lied to Penny and told her I had already had sex with “about four or five girls,” when in fact I was still a virgin. I was hoping she wouldn’t ask a lot of questions about it, since I wouldn’t know what to say. Fortunately for me, she didn’t, so my secret was safe.

One night after the office closed, Penny and I were talking alone in the parking lot, there was an energy between us that started to make my heart pound and my face get a little red. She felt it too, and started bouncing up and down and touching my face a little as we talked. I had no idea what to do, so eventually we said our goodnights and I went home alone.

The next time I visited her office, we both decided to “go for a drive.” Even as a young virgin I had a feeling I knew what that meant, but I tried to hide my excitement.

She drove her minivan and I sat in the passenger seat. We stopped off at a convenience store, got some juice, and continued onto a ridge overlooking the airport where we parked.

We sat and talked, and within about 30 minutes we were making out. My hands were all over her and I was getting super excited. I wanted to go further but she was too scared to do so in her car. Being a pussy, I didn’t push it. (We could have had sex right then and there in her car if I had been more confident. She was all warmed up and ready to go.)

A week or two later we met up at a hotel, and it finally happened. We had sex, although I couldn’t get it up. My virgin 22 year-old cock had no idea what to do with this excited naked woman laying before me. It was confusing to me, because I didn’t feel scared or nervous. It just…didn’t work. I wasn’t scared, but my subconscious was terrified.

I tried, and tried, and tried. She also tried. Nothing worked. I was furious. I tried not to get upset. She felt sad. “Is it me?” she asked, “It’s me, isn’t it?!?” It honestly wasn’t. It was me. Dammit.

It took four separate “visits” for us to attempt sex before my dick started to work correctly. When it did, oh man, it worked great. I started seeing Penny regularly, most weeks, for over about a year. Her husband was gone for long stretches for his work, so this was easy to do. With me being a virgin and her being married, we were both STD free (though she made me get a HIV test before we started having sex, which was expensive as hell back then) and she had her tubes tied so she couldn’t get pregnant. I had so much fun with her, my memories of that time still make me smile to this day. It was my first ongoing relationship with a woman.

She was able to teach me some basics about sex but nothing earth shattering. Towards the end, to my surprise, she started getting real feelings towards me. This stunned me. She was married to another guy and still loved him. Her and I were just fuck buddies, at least as I understood the term back then (what little I understood anyway). We were close, and I cared for her deeply, but she was married and I was damn near 20 years younger than her. I had feelings for her, but eventually she wanted romance. I was confused. It made no sense to me at the time. This was another new lesson I learned about women.

Lesson Three

Most women (though not all) are hard-wired to start getting feelings for any man they are having regular sex with, regardless of the nature of the relationship they have with him, or his lack of desirability or compatibility for her long-term future.

You can logically say to a woman, “we’re just friends with benefits” all you want, and that might work for a while. But if you’re having regular sex, eventually, and it might take a while, most women (not all, but most) will start to get some feelings for you, even if she loves another man. It’s how women work.

This doesn’t mean you can’t have very long-term FBs. I do all the time. You just need to realize that eventually an FB will LSNFTE you for a beta boyfriend if she doesn’t feel her feelings are being returned. (And if you do everything right, she’ll eventually come back.)

During this time, when I went right from high school right into the work world of adults, I noticed several things.

First, I noticed that most women over the age of about 30 were always bitter about something; bitter about their divorce, bitter about men, bitter about their financial situation, upset with their “stupid” husbands, stressed out about their kids, etc. This was a shockingly stark difference from the girls I had known in high school, most of whom were happy, carefree, and loved boys.

Second, I noticed that men who were unmarried tended to have happier demeanors than men who were married. This was very strange to me, since I had been told my whole life that marriage was the one great goal all men should have, and that you weren’t happy until you were married to That One Special Girl™.

The married guys always seemed to be whining about something they wanted to do but “weren’t allowed” to do. This kept happening so often that I started making fun of my married work buddies. “Haha! You have to go home now because you’re ‘not allowed’ to have fun! I’m getting pizza! Haha!”

Third, I noticed that unmarried guys who had girlfriends had their own set of problems. They were certainly happier than the married guys, that was obvious. But they also seemed to have more drama. It seemed to me that guys with girlfriends were always on the phone with them, constantly saying things like “Okay, okay! Sorry!” or “God! What’s your problem? Why are you yelling at me?”

To my shock, and I really was surprised and confused about this, the consistently happiest men in the adult workplace I saw were guys who didn’t have a wife or a traditional girlfriend.

Hmm…

It quickly became apparent to me that my relationship with Penny was far superior to that of the married guys and the girlfriend guys I knew or worked with, at least in terms of how happy it made me (and her).

Though I wasn’t exactly right, I had no idea that I was really on to something back then, and what big things had been started from those thoughts and observations.

Eventually, with my new sexual powers awakened within me, I started having sex with other women, which was a lot easier now that I had lost my virginity. It was as if losing my virginity had removed a huge sea anchor I was dragging around.

Soon I had to reluctantly say goodbye to Penny. It was amicable, and we’re still friends to this day.

One of the women I met during this time I would end up marrying, and oh boy, did that change things…

To be continued…

33 Comments on “The Story of My History With Women – Part 2: Losing My Virginity

  1. Amazing! I liked it better than the previous part. I think it is because you expressed more the vulnerable part of your past self.

  2. The negative Catholic programming from my mother was still strong in my mind, even stronger than my burning sexual desire.

    Same with me (I was religious until almost 19). I was actually determined to “stay a virgin till marriage”, which I expected to happen in my late twenties. At 17 or so I started to look for “liberal interpretations of religion” to appease my conscience about at least making out with girls and possibly having sex; sometime later I realized I no longer really believed; and around 21 I fully gave up on “going back”, and lost my virginity a year later.

    My virgin 22 year-old cock had no idea what to do with this excited naked woman laying before me. It was confusing to me, because I didn’t feel scared or nervous. It just…didn’t work. I wasn’t scared, but my subconscious was terrified.

    This is EXACTLY what happened to me the first 4-5 times I had sex. The woman, who was older and hot, thought it was because of her small boobs (I’m not as difficult as you are with boob size; stunning legs arouse me more).

    the consistently happiest men in the adult workplace I saw were guys who didn’t have a wife or a traditional girlfriend.

    That makes me curious why and how you got married knowing that. I had concluded that monogamy doesn’t work shortly before discovering your blog, which was a revelation. I’ll be looking forward to the next installment in this series.

  3. Most women (though not all) are hard-wired to start getting feelings for any man they are having regular sex with, regardless of the nature of the relationship they have with him, or his lack of desirability or compatibility for her long-term future.

    Yeah, that’s probably oxytocin. Prolonged and consistent exposure can empower one’s emotions and eventually beat their logic. If you adhere to logic and/or you are well disciplined (Abundance mentality) nothing bad can happen but on the other side you have adherence to emotions and disney fantasies and scarcity mentality. You’re lucky you had logic on your side, at least or you might have opened a can of drama for yourself.

    I’m guessing you also saw her more than once a week. That would explain her behaviour. Avoid doing that in the future. If you wanna know why, you should go to Blackdragon’s blog. He specialises in online dating but he’s got a good general system for relationship management that could really help you out.
    He’s a bit of an asshole, just a warning…

  4. Side note BD, I discovered there’s a scientific term for NRE, it’s called limerence!  There is a cool show called “Adam Ruins Everything” where he does a pretty good job explaining NRE and how feelings can change over time, etc…  Kind of trying to blow the Disney fantasies out of the water.

     

    “Limerence-The state of being infatuated or obsessed with another person, typically experienced involuntarily and characterized by a strong desire for reciprocation of one’s feelings.”

  5. Wow I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 20 and I thought I was one of the latest ones but 22 yikes! You certainly made up for lost time BD!

     

    The first time I did it I had no problems performing even though I barely had a clue what I was doing. She was 20 also, maybe that explains why I still love having sex with women that age (even though I’m 40 next month!). Just acquired a new 19 year-old FB recently using BD’s techniques. Thanks BD!

  6. Amazing! I liked it better than the previous part. I think it is because you expressed more the vulnerable part of your past self.

    I was much more vulnerable 22 years ago. 🙂

    That makes me curious why and how you got married knowing that.

    I’ll explain exactly that in the next installment. The summary was that I was an ignorant, societally brainwashed moron, but I’ll go into more detail regarding the specific, stupid, SP-based excuses I used at the time (the same ones guys use today to get married…and then divorced).

    There is a cool show called “Adam Ruins Everything”

    Adam Ruins Everything is probably the best show on YouTube. It’s the only show if it’s kind, in that it’s literally geared to work against Societal Programming. (That guy must get sooooo much hate mail.)

    Wow I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 20 and I thought I was one of the latest ones but 22 yikes!

    20 or 22 isn’t anything. There’s an entire population of men out there who are in their late 20s and still virgins (27, 28, 30, etc).

    You certainly made up for lost time BD!

    Yes I did. And then some. 🙂

  7. Damn BD,

    It astounds me how you can be so perceptive at such a young age. I don’t get it,  how come like you’re the only person I’ve ever known to pick this shit up by himself?? Like now that you talk about all of this, and I think back to when I was dating girls before I found out about TRP and your stuff, I keep having these “ah hah holy shit” moments going “why couldn’t I see it, it was so obvious!”

    Could it also be that because of my generation and people getting married later and later, we’re exposed far less to this? Obviously there are still people who do the traditional gf thing in my vicinity, but they all seemed pretty content to me and happy with their gfs being the boss… really shows you how much the male species has gone backwards huh?

    Cheers,

    SB

  8. …how come like you’re the only person I’ve ever known to pick this shit up by himself??

    I’d say it all comes back to your mindset. Perception is important but without skepticism, you can’t figure this stuff out. Even back when I was a kid, to me, marriage was a questionable concept at best, along with a lot of social, religious and political propaganda. I just figured I would date a lot of girls when I got older and then pick one as a girl friend and possibly move in together without promising anything. Of course, in practice, there would be a lot of mistakes I would have made. Like acting like a boyfriend too early on, following most mainstream dating advice. Then getting caught in all the drama and minor beta-ization (I still had self-respect).

    After all the trial and error, there would be a good chance that I would develop a system similar to BD’s (since we’re similar in personality) but I’m glad I found the Redpill and BD before ever stepping into the dating scene.

    It’s weird how most people can look at astute blogs like this and find it outlandish and offensive but people like us can instantly ‘click’ and relate to it. As I said, it all comes back to skepticism and perception. Not thinking with your emotions can help too.

    Of course, skepticism demands that you find nothing sacred and constantly question everything. I’m still looking out for the day that BD pulls a Tony Robbins or something and says something stupid.

  9. It astounds me how you can be so perceptive at such a young age.

     

    By just casting aside lies and taboos, apparently, at least partially.

    I, for one, having learned what I could about applied female psychology, don’t perceive it as a bizarre unfathomable phenomenon any longer. Were I not contaminated with SP, I could have figured most of it out on my own, why not? But it being just wrong to experiment and to ask questions, I had to rely on incomplete and contradictory teachings of my parents and the society, teachings that have much in common with religion in avoiding all kinds of elephants-in-the-room.

    The core rules are so simple. Be manly (because the set of typically masculine traits is both good for the man and attractive to women) and take action (or how else is she supposed to end up in a relationship with the man). Maybe the latter is a part of the former, but this is an area where I used to fail spectacularly; in a particularly shameful episode that led me to start studying applied female psychology, I thought that just being there would by some magic result in something. Of course, that path only leads to Shopping Guys, thankfully, I wasn’t ensnared like that. I think I avoided the friend zone by not even becoming a friend : ) Spent several months like that, until I invited her to an event and she said, “OK, I’ll be there, and my boyfriend will also come”.

    SP is the problem, of course. For example, an integral part of Russophone culture is this quote by Pushkin, translated literally, “The less we love a woman, the easier we become liked by her”. So the harmfulness of neediness is almost universally known here from childhood, yet SP overrides that easily to create the same kind of beta males as everywhere else.

    BD doesn’t like nihilism, but what he says is pretty much nihilistic: unlearn SP and that’s basically it.

  10. I thought that just being there would by some magic result in something.

    LMAO that was my “strategy” pretty much until my 20s! lol. Only I took it way too far and was usually accused of harassment because at the time I was too stupid to know when I was getting shot down lol.

    I never fell into the trap so many men do, of only having sex with mediocre women and then having some kind of reluctance or complex about sleeping with pretty women. I think this experience in high school was the reason.

    I wish I could say the same. After getting shot down (very brutally btw) by my high school crush (almost got put in jail for harassment) I kinda told myself that I wasn’t good enough to get with attractive chicks. And an even nastier thing that happened to me 2 years before that twisted my view of sex in general. 15 years later I’m finally starting to break through and tell myself that I AM worthy of getting with attractive chicks and that sex can be enjoyable and fun.

    BD doesn’t like nihilism, but what he says is pretty much nihilistic: unlearn SP and that’s basically it.

    Nihilism is quite tricky in that it can BECOME SP if you encounter it too young. That’s what happened to me. I listened to a lot of George Carlin HBOs (I’d rent VHS’s of his HBO Specials and tape them with a minitape recorder) and read a lot of Schopenhauer, Sartre and Nietzsche at ages as early as 12. When you read stuff like that (or in this day and age, go on MGTOW boards and get “red pilled”) at an age where you are that impressionable good things generally don’t happen. If my father wasn’t so obsessively overprotective I would probably be in jail now because I didn’t care about anything back then. Still don’t. But you have to care a little in order to improve for yourself, or at least pretend to.

  11. @Anon.

    Were I not contaminated with SP, I could have figured most of it out on my own, why not? But it being just wrong to experiment and to ask questions, I had to rely on incomplete and contradictory teachings of my parents and the society, teachings that have much in common with religion in avoiding all kinds of elephants-in-the-room.

    Exactly, perception won’t get you anywhere if you’re too afraid to ask and ponder certain questions.

    BD doesn’t like nihilism, but what he says is pretty much nihilistic: unlearn SP and that’s basically it.

    Nihilism, per definition is the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless.

    That’s pretty much my belief except for the fact that I see life as a game or a playground. It’s made for my enjoyment and the meaning it has is the one I give it. I don’t remember the post where BD talked about this but I remember the analogy he used. It went something like this (pardon the paraphrasing):

    You spend hours playing in an MMO RPG game, Immersing yourself in the world of magical swords and dragons only to later realize that the game, in it’s entirety, is just a bunch of meaningless pixels and sounds put together. You feel angry that you’ve let yourself take the story and characters seriously then begin lecturing your fellow gamers about how pointless and stupid this whole thing is. Needless to say, you piss off a lot of people. All the while, it never occurs to you that you were never meant to take the game seriously and that’s it’s made for your recreational enjoyment.

    Life is pretty much the same. Fighting for a ‘noble’ cause or living day to day life shouldn’t be your goal. Your personal happiness is all that matters. When you adopt this mindset, you realize that nothing is sacred and everything is permitted as long as it contributes to your happiness.

  12. Great post Black Dragon. I think your lessons are spot on.

    My life experiences are  180 out from yours even with the same catholic upbringing. But I grew up 20 years before you did and life was different then. Perhaps societal programming less strong as we spent much, much more time with our peers. So let me just say that once  I got a driver’s license the worlds was my oyster.  (I think I just got that one)

    I match up closely with ratings of other guys. who’s hot, who’s not.  (You flash pictures of girls up in front of a bunch of guys, and they will invariably yell out the same number or close “6”, “7”, “6” and so on. But I’m not attracted to any particular type and enjoy the differences.

     

    I am also one of those unhappy married guys, or maybe just “was” one of them.  There’s a lot of stress in marriage, especially when you add in kids. So there were times when I was not super happy, but the longer I have been married, the more I’ve enjoyed it. First and foremost, there is much satisfaction in producing wonderful children. (much less in producing unsuccessful children, so marry carefully)

    One important tactic for married guys is to continue to do things you enjoy.  Do not, for example, give up your poker night, because next thing you know they will want you to give up bowling night, and game night and bar night. So keep doing the things you like to do. One friend of mine would go sit in his car alone and drink beer if he didn’t feel like going out because it was his night out. Because I was in the Navy when I got married, and really didn’t have time to pursue much of anything, had to claw my way back to being able to do things I wanted.

    Another important tactic for married guys is to be the leader of the family. Sure, listen to what your wife thinks, and integrate her thinking. But if it’s important, and you need to do something different, it’s perfectly ok to not give in to her wishes. It’s better if you can explain why, and often, if you use part of her input in a decision, you get a better outcome than if either one of you decides in a vacuum.

     

     

     

  13. I don’t get it,  how come like you’re the only person I’ve ever known to pick this shit up by himself??

    A lot of it is personality. I was raised in a Catholic school, and even as a small child I could tell that all this stuff about an angry sky god and a guy who walked on water didn’t make any sense, yet all the other kids in my class just nodded and went along with it, and that included the kids in the class who were clearly smarter than me. So it’s not about intelligence; it’s more about temperament.

    With marriage, monogamy and women, it was the same thing. My parents and environment told me one thing, yet as soon as I left high school I saw the complete opposite, and drew my own conclusions. It was just too obvious to me. Smiling, happy married people is just not what I saw, and if I did, they were the exception to the rule. And this was in the early 90s when the divorce rates and infidelity rates were lower and marital happiness was higher. It’s even worse now(!).

    I’m still looking out for the day that BD pulls a Tony Robbins or something and says something stupid.

    I’ve done tons of stupid things. Here’s a few:

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/11/02/a-few-of-my-past-screw-ups/

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2013/03/10/making-excuses-or-overcoming-your-personal-shortcomings/

    BD doesn’t like nihilism

    Incorrect. I think nihilism is just fine, and can provide a degree of outcome independence. What I didn’t like a few years ago were hordes of nihilists consistently derailing conversations on my blog that had nothing to do with nihilism.

    but what he says is pretty much nihilistic: unlearn SP and that’s basically it.

    Uh, no. That is not what my core message is. Not even close.

    I am also one of those unhappy married guys, or maybe just “was” one of them.  There’s a lot of stress in marriage, especially when you add in kids. So there were times when I was not super happy, but the longer I have been married, the more I’ve enjoyed it.

    I’m glad you’re doing butter, but “there were times you were not super happy” would be unacceptable to me. I’m about long-term consistent happiness, which isn’t possible with long-term monogamy even if you’re not miserable.

    There has never been a “time” in the last 10 years where I wasn’t happy. It’s been literally wall-to-wall happiness (barring the very unusual off day now and then). But when I was married, I was just like you: sometimes happy, sometimes not.

  14. that included the kids in the class who were clearly smarter than me. So it’s not about intelligence; it’s more about temperament.

    LOL, I might’ve been one of the “smart kids” nodding in approval. I was raised a really “good boy”, very pious and obeying the rules, which probably delayed my dropping out of religion and other SP by years, because I respected “the rules” so much that when my reason pushed me towards doubt, I committed to coming up with whatever grand theological reconciliation I could find (reconciling religion with sex and with evolution was my obsession back then). And when I finally dropped out, I was disgusted at how most other nonbelievers where “much dumber” and, from my viewpoint, “didn’t earn it” as I did through years of carefully building a case etc.

    I think nihilism is just fine, and can provide a degree of outcome independence

    Very recently I’d had a similar idea: being a nihilist (or, like me, entertaining at least the possibility of the lack of meaning) is a form of outcome independence about what reality might turn out to be. It’s the existential/philosophical equivalent of being an Alpha 2.0, and it’s my response to anyone claiming that absurdism is ‘un-Alpha’. He who can’t even face a disturbing “maybe” is in fact extremely outcome dependent: there’s a difference between 1° acknowledging something bad but choosing not to bitterly dwell on it, and 2° denying the discomforting fact and calling that “Alpha” or “the free choice of what to believe”. The latter is delusional.
    Anyway, you banned this subject and I’m only reacting to an interesting point you made; I’ll stop here.

  15. A lot of it is personality. I was raised in a Catholic school, and even as a small child I could tell that all this stuff about an angry sky god and a guy who walked on water didn’t make any sense, yet all the other kids in my class just nodded and went along with it, and that included the kids in the class who were clearly smarter than me. So it’s not about intelligence; it’s more about temperament.

    Yes-ish. I see many ‘intelligent’ guys saying pretty dumb stuff very often. To make matters worse, they use their unrelated accomplishments to validate their arguments. A lot people buy it, too.

    It’s simple, really. There are multiple types of intelligence. Nine, in fact. You can go look it up. Problem is, academic intelligence has been traditionally heralded as the be all, end all of intelligence. In the eighties, Gardner sorta redefined the meaning to fit in all the other ignored types.

    Another problem comes from the fact that people attach emotions to their arguments. You see this all the time from religious, morally uptight and societally indoctrinated people. Once a line of thinking has become too ‘sacred’ to be questioned, it can virtually never be refuted with logic.

    You don’t need me to say this but you are intelligent, BD. I’m only saying that if you start spewing nonsense in the future (for whatever reason), there will be more than a few people who will buy it without question. They are people who trust you (you become their ‘sacred’ idol). Some do it blindly, some ‘lean’ towards your opinions because they aren’t experienced in the given subject.

    Using myself as an example, I can confirm your knowledge in dating and relationships, despite my limited experience because I’m a quick study when it comes to women and controversial topics. But I have no first hand understanding of American politics and the financial world so I lean towards your opinion more than any other because I trust your rationalization. Perhaps there will come a time when I understand enough about economy that I will form my own opinion about Bernie sander’s plans that happens to be against yours. Or you will say something stupid about dating that I will call you out on. Maybe you’ll pull a Tony Robbins… You get my point. I’m talking about the future you.

    Anyway, you banned this subject and I’m only reacting to an interesting point you made; I’ll stop here.

    You’re fine. As long as your points are relevant and reasonable, lord BD won’t cast any lighting and hellfire your way. 🙂

  16. It’s interesting…I never even thought about being monogamous as a kid. Even when I was a virgin i didn’t think being monogamous made much sense. And then I got into my first LTR where I was effectively monogamous for 2 years — it was officially open, but I was having sex with her once or twice a week every week(and that’s all I can handle) so I didn’t bother going out to find someone else. Had the sex with her been cut back I definitely would have. Being effectively monogamous is a hell of a lot less work than trying to balance multiple women.

  17. I got into my first LTR where I was effectively monogamous for 2 years — it was officially open, but I was having sex with her once or twice a week every week(and that’s all I can handle) so I didn’t bother going out to find someone else

    Yeah. That’s called de facto monogamy which I describe here. It’s very common.

    Being effectively monogamous is a hell of a lot less work than trying to balance multiple women.

    It depends on the number of women you’re trying to balance. If you’ve got 5 women on rotation, then yeah, it’s more work. Been there done that. But if you have one main girl and one side-girl you see sporadically (2 women total), it’s not any more work…and far better than monogamy, de facto or otherwise.

  18. It depends on the number of women you’re trying to balance. If you’ve got 5 women on rotation, then yeah, it’s more work. Been there done that. But if you have one main girl and one side-girl you see sporadically (2 women total), it’s not any more work…and far better than monogamy, de facto or otherwise.

    I agree, but adjust by sex drive. Once or twice a week is all I can handle. I can do 3 or 4 times in a week for brief periods, but I simply don’t want to fuck someone more often than once or twice. When my main girl handles my sexual needs just fine, even balancing one other chick is difficult. I’d basically have to tell the main chick  “nope, I don’t want to fuck you tonight, I want to fuck this other chick instead”. Nowadays, when I do have two chicks on a semi-regular schedule, I frequently need to turn down sex from one of them.

  19. (turn down or set them up for a threesome) Nowadays I set it up so that I never see one chick enough to take care of all of my needs to ensure that I have the desire to get a second chick if I end up with only one. Far more work, but it means I stay in practice.

  20. Off-topic, but I might forget if I wait for part 3.
    Since “Adam ruins everything was mentioned”, he did an episode on wedding rings. I’d rather spend the money on a trip together instead. Haha. Most of my female friends are annoyed I would say that, but that’s their problem.

    What’s your opinion on wedding rings?

    For open marriages (might be using wrong term, the type of marriage you prefer) of course.

  21. I agree, but adjust by sex drive.

    Well, if you adjust everything I say to conform to the low sex drive man, just about all of this changes. My advice is for normal, everyday men. Men under age 60 with sex drives low enough where they would be 100% happy in life with having sex just once a week or less are not the majority. That being said, I have said that serial monogamy is “okay” for men with low sex drives.

    What’s your opinion on wedding rings?

    For open marriages (might be using wrong term, the type of marriage you prefer) of course.

    If it’s an OLTR marriage and your frame is rock-solid, it’s perfectly fine provided you can easily afford whatever ring you buy based on your income and financial goals. It’s purely a budgetary decision.

    I’d rather spend the money on a trip together instead. Haha. Most of my female friends are annoyed I would say that, but that’s their problem.

    The wedding ring is one piece of bullshit Societal Programming you’ll never, ever overcome (unless you literally never get married, even in your older years), so don’t even try. 99.9% of women out there, including non-Western women, are going to have an absolute fucking meltdown if you tell them you’re getting married but she doesn’t get a ring. Even if you get trip or whatever instead. So if you ever getting married in any way whatsoever (TMM or OLTR or whatever), you’re going to be buying a ring. Plan on it. Or never get married.

  22. The wedding ring is one piece of bullshit Societal Programming you’ll never, ever overcome (unless you literally never get married, even in your older years), so don’t even try.

    Sigh…I honestly cant justify an expensive piece of carbon that will never be used. It’s like an expensive toy that gets played with once and then collects dust in the closet. My legos are effectively doing that already.

    I wonder if I’ll succumb to it.
    Guess I’ll post back if I do.

    99.9% of women out there, including non-Western women, are going to have an absolute fucking meltdown if you tell them you’re getting married but she doesn’t get a ring.

    Haha! My ex held it in pretty well when I said that. She just said “I’ll pretend I never heard that”. Then she got me her wedding ring a few weeks later for me to give her in the future.

  23. My advice is for normal, everyday men. Men under age 60 with sex drives low enough where they would be 100% happy in life with having sex just once a week or less are not the majority.

    True enough — for me once a week is good, more than twice a week actually decreases my happiness. Sex is way too much work and I have other things I’d rather be doing.

    I don’t do serial monogamy, though. That one time was a mistake that I won’t repeat(too much drama and too much interference with the rest of my life)

  24. It depends on the number of women you’re trying to balance. If you’ve got 5 women on rotation, then yeah, it’s more work. Been there done that.

    At the beginning of the year I had 0. That’s when I bought your ebooks and started applying the techniques. By end of April I got 5. While the number was 2, I would so frequently find myself in situations where one was away and the other busy, or something, and a week or even more would go by without any sex. Hell, even at 5, there were cases where I saw one of them twice in a row, being unable to invite any of the other ones in the meantime! OTOH, I never had trouble managing them all, the techniques in the ebooks do work. So I’m still in the dark as to what’s the perfect number.

    And then, rather abruptly, they were all gone, all at the same time! One appears to have LSNFTEd, one moved away, one was away all summer and is currently reluctant to meet me, one got so needy I couldn’t stand her anymore, and the final one I had to soft next (right at the time she moved away, which was known in advance for quite some time), after her two months without any sex ensued.

    Finally got a new one a couple of days ago, had lousy sex and then excellent sex, and now she’s spewing all kinds of absolutely illogical nonsense as to how that’s not right.

    How would you respond to a suggestion of just going out, without subsequently going to my place? I see two options, accepting it and trying to get her to my place anyway (soft next if that fails), or soft next immediately. The former seemed impossible in my case without losing face, so I had to resort to the latter. (The second time I had to soft next a girl without having any other one. Feels so bad.)

    That leaves her biology to fight her SP, hopefully the outcome is that she invents some reason for why this “doesn’t count”. We’ll see. She’s such a nice girl, I don’t want to lose her, though at the same time I don’t want to be with her if she remains like that.

    Going on dates all this time, including twice yesterday. I’m sure it will be all right with enough effort. I dislike the current situation very much, though looking at socially-acceptable alternatives relieves me as that would be even worse : )

  25. Personally…I’d throw in a joke or a simple ‘hah’ and then contact her to come over to my place a few days later. If she declines, I’d forget about her.

  26. I wonder if I’ll succumb to it.

    If you get married, you will. Oneitis always overpowers logic.

    While the number was 2, I would so frequently find myself in situations where one was away and the other busy, or something, and a week or even more would go by without any sex. Hell, even at 5, there were cases where I saw one of them twice in a row, being unable to invite any of the other ones in the meantime! OTOH, I never had trouble managing them all, the techniques in the ebooks do work. So I’m still in the dark as to what’s the perfect number.

    The ideal number for men who are serious about this lifestyle is three. Two isn’t workable, because as soon as one LSFNTEs you, you’re down to one and are now de facto monogamous. Three isn’t too many like four or five might be, and if one gets a boyfriend and leaves, you’re still covered with your remaining two, leaving plenty of time to replace her.

    Two is also good for a lot of men, particularly those with frequent visits with an OLTR, or who have lower sex drives, or who are more busy. Again though, two is very close to monogamy so you’d better have either a large roster of ex’s to resurrect women from or be very good at getting laid very quickly with new women (or both).

  27. Also, BD, in a more conservative culture, what exactly would you dial down in your game? Or maybe change nothing, put in more numbers and find women from the liberated minority?

  28. I would not live in a conservative culture. If I found myself in one, I would make plans to leave ASAP. My sex life is too important.

  29. @Anon

    And then, rather abruptly, they were all gone, all at the same time! One appears to have LSNFTEd, one moved away, one was away all summer and is currently reluctant to meet me, one got so needy I couldn’t stand her anymore, and the final one I had to soft next (right at the time she moved away, which was known in advance for quite some time), after her two months without any sex ensued.

    Dude, please, don’t beat yourself. It happen’s to the best of us. I had something similar happening to me at the beginning of this year (5 women on rotation, all left for different reasons on a 20-30 day span). I went almost 40 days without a shag and was losing it, but eventually things came around.

    Going on dates all this time, including twice yesterday. I’m sure it will be all right with enough effort. I dislike the current situation very much, though looking at socially-acceptable alternatives relieves me as that would be even worse : )

    Exactly what I did. Think about it as an opportunity to increase your dating/relationship skills (and women pool). Soon enough your rotation will be fine again.

    How would you respond to a suggestion of just going out, without subsequently going to my place? I see two options, accepting it and trying to get her to my place anyway (soft next if that fails), or soft next immediately. The former seemed impossible in my case without losing face, so I had to resort to the latter. (The second time I had to soft next a girl without having any other one. Feels so bad.)

    Take her out, escalate, IF she refuses sex (or gives you LMR) than you back off. No need to soft next, just keep your frame as a sexual man and don’t seek her (let her come to you).

  30. Hey BD,

    Little off topic here, but what the hell.

    I can’t find resources regarding sexual escalation on second dates. Do you cover this in your new online dating manual? And do you have any posts that cover this? You seem to explain more about the first date than the second.

  31. Problem is, academic intelligence has been traditionally heralded as the be all, end all of intelligence.

    I’d go as far as to say that academic intelligence really isn’t that intelligent at all. I mean all you really need to do to succeed in college (both undergrad and graduate levels) is agree with everything your teachers say. Not too difficult to do really. Being perceptive enough to know when to agree and when not to, that’s a better sign of intelligence IMO.

  32. I can’t find resources regarding sexual escalation on second dates.

    That’s described in my get to sex fast book here and in my SMIC program here. Though I do talk about it somewhat in several articles on this blog if you look through the archive.

  33. I’d go as far as to say that academic intelligence really isn’t that intelligent at all. I mean all you really need to do to succeed in college (both undergrad and graduate levels) is agree with everything your teachers say. Not too difficult to do really. Being perceptive enough to know when to agree and when not to, that’s a better sign of intelligence IMO.

    I wouldn’t go that far. I really like the technology and science we have that we wouldn’t have without mathematicians and physicists etc. Moreover, academic intelligence is correlated with logic and I love my logic so I can’t diss that.

    But there is probably a difference between the two since I’m average in math but very logical compared to my peers and elders (yes, I’m probably a douche about it too lol).  And there are a lot of logical people who weren’t good in school, obviously. So maybe they find math unappealing like I do. Maybe I’m just misinterpreting the descriptions for Gardner’s types. But I’m not too keen on digging further into this subject so whatever…

    Point is, academic or logic-mathematical intelligence is very important. We’re using it when we remember stuff and logic the shit out of life just not the be all, end all.

    Pardon the late response.

Leave a Reply

To leave a comment, enter your comment below. PLEASE make sure to read the commenting rules before commenting, since failure to follow these rules means your comment may be deleted. Also please do not use the username “Anonymous” or “Anon” or any variation thereof (makes things too confusing).

Off-topic comments are allowed, but Caleb will ignore those.

Caleb responds to comments in person, but he only does so on the two most current blog articles.

Related Posts

Begin typing your search term above and press enter to search.