I’m going to be a contrarian today.

For a long time, I’ve discussed the downside of dating women over the age of 33 if your goal is to get to sex as quickly as possible. I’ve expounded on this idea in detail in many other articles on this blog and in my books, but I will briefly summarize the problem before I get into the meat of this article.

The problem is that, generally speaking (and there are always odd exceptions), women aged 33 or over are not going to have sex with you within 3-4 hours of face time like I teach, even if you do everything right.

This is not my opinion, this is fact. I’ve had literally hundreds of men verify this throughout the years, including daygame guys. These are men who can easily have sex with new women very quickly as long as they’re under the age of 33. As soon as they creep up over 33, the time it takes to get to first-time sex expands, as well as the average total cost of getting from first-time meet to sex.

Before I hear some of you scream, here are the exceptions and workarounds to this problem:

1. If you are very good looking (six pack abs or similar) and are young or look young. In that one case, cougars can often put you into the “broke but hot younger guy” category, their ASD sharply drops, and you can possibly score with them fast.

2. If large amounts of alcohol are involved, as in with night game (sometimes). That 36 year old who’s downed three long island iced teas in the club at 2am in the morning is probably not going to be difficult to have sex with quickly. (This then begs the question, how many men in their 30s or 40s are going to be willing to hang out at dance clubs at 2am?)

3. If the woman is on vacation, far away from her friends and family (and husband or boyfriend if she has one).

4. If you already know the woman from your work or social circle. I have achieved fast sex with plenty of women over the age of 33, but the vast majority of them were women I already knew somehow. They were not cold stranger approaches via daygame or online dating.

Okay. Like when I talk about monogamy, I get a lot of resistance when I talk about this fact. There are only two valid arguments I get to this.

The first is; “Oh, you’re being too negative. There are some women who will do it. You just need to put in more numbers.”

I know it’s possible, I’ve done it. I’m saying that it’s very unlikely. I have no interest in going out on 25 first dates with women over the age of 33 to find the one or two who will have sex with me within 3-4 hours of face time. Particularly when these days I can go on just three or four dates with women under 33 who will have sex with me quickly. I don’t like to waste my time. If you don’t mind wasting your time, then feel free to do so.

The second is; “Oh, c’mon BD. So what if it costs me $150 and 10 hours of my time? What’s wrong with that? I don’t mind. I kinda like spending time with a woman like that.”

Okay, you don’t mind, but I do mind, a lot, and you’re proving my point. Again, I don’t like to waste my time or my money. I have no problem with spending money on women under certain conditions as I have discussed here and here, but not when A) I haven’t had sex with them yet and B) I have no idea if I ever will have sex with them or not.

Spending (or should I say, wasting) time is even worse, since I have no desire to waste any of my time, ever, for any reason. Time is the only resource I have that isn’t renewable, and spending 10 hours of it on a 33+ year old woman, who will probably vanish on me at the 9 hour mark when I really put my foot down about the sex thing, is not my idea of spending my time wisely.

Moreover, the older I become, the more adamant I become about not wasting my time, since I have much less of it than I did when I was younger. When I was 22, wasting my time with women didn’t bother me very much, but damn, I’m in my mid-40s now. I don’t have time to waste any more, and I have things to do.

The Good Things About Dating Women Over 33

Here comes the “However.”

Despite all the problems I listed above, which are real problems that bother me, I agree there are advantages to dating older women (“older” in this context means women aged 33 or higher). I am almost always dating at least one woman over 33 as an MLTR or FB, often women over 40. As I said above, usually these are women that I met via some sort of social circle game or as ex co-workers. Rarely has it been via online dating (though there have been unusual exceptions).

Here are the advantages these women have over younger women:

1. More stable schedules. One of the reasons younger women drive me insane is because their schedules, and their ability to maintain a schedule, are absolute nightmares. My younger FBs and MLTRs are constantly forgetting our scheduled appointments in the most stupid ways imaginable. This includes the very smart younger women with college degrees and real careers.

Younger women forget appointments, oversleep, get hung over, get sick, forget to charge their phones, have sudden problems with their kids, friends, or family far more often than women over 33. Women over 33 have all of these problems too (they’re women after all), but not nearly to the same degree.

As a matter of fact, my number one problem with my women life is them failing to meet scheduled appointments with me. As a time management nerd, this is irritating. (Quality problems, I know.)

2. More depth and intelligence. This is obvious, but it’s true. I’m able to carry on more “real” conversations with older women than with younger women. This is one of the reasons why I raised my minimum age to 23 a while ago, and may even raise it again at some point.

Unlike most older men, I don’t mind if a woman is a young, dumb airhead. It doesn’t bother me at all, provided she’s hot and doesn’t give me drama (she’ll be an FB of course, and nothing more). Yet, I still admit that having an intellectual connection with a woman in addition to a sexual and/or emotional one is nice.

3. More knowledgeable in “non-girl” areas. This is not about how smart or not smart women are; it’s more about their age and experience. If I start talking about international markets, currency devaluation, commercial real estate, or my last profit and loss statement with a woman who is 21 or 23, I’m going to get a blank stare, and then she’ll shrug and change the subject back to her. As I said, this is okay with me, but if she’s 35 I have a decent chance of her at least somewhat understanding, or even being interested in, these more masculine topics. It’s a nice little bonus.

Don’t get me wrong, though. I’ve still had plenty of women in their 30s and 40s give me blank stares about these things. I’m just saying that your odds are a little better.

4. Emotional depth. If a much younger woman tells me she has feelings for me, or loves me, I know that this may or may not be a true and meaningful expression of how she really feels. It might be, it might not be. Even if it is, she’s prone to change her mind literally within a week or two (and this has actually happened).

Yet, if a woman in her 30s or 40s says something like this to me, it’s usually, not always, but usually more real. I can put more credence to it. Don’t be fooled though, she’s still a woman and she’s still biologically hard-wired to change her mind about these things eventually, but the odds of her maintaining these feelings for much longer than a woman 10 or 15 years younger than her are very good.

Even if a woman in her 30s or 40s dumps or LSNFTEs you (and they will, remember, they’re still girls), the way she’ll feel about you won’t change. She won’t be dating you any more, but she’ll still love or have feelings for you. Whereas that 22 year-old will completely forget about you in two weeks, since she’ll be “in love” with a new guy.

When the older woman returns to you (which she will if you do everything right), the bond is still there. When the younger woman returns to you, the bond is gone and she’s pretty much a low-end FB now.

5. They’re still super hot, as long as they don’t get chubby. I am not in the camp that thinks women over 30 are less attractive than women under 30. I’ve never felt that way, even when I was in my 20s. As long as they don’t get chubby, which I realize is a big “if” in North America, women in their 30s are still smoking hot. Many women in their 40s are also very attractive. Now, we’re actually getting to the point where even some women in their early 50s are shagable, and I’m not talking just about wealthy celebrities, but normal, middle class women who’ve had a little work done.

As I’ve discussed several times before on this blog, both men and women are both getting more attractive as they age as compared to just a decade or two ago. I personally know many, and I mean numerous women in their 30s who are normal, suburban, non-rich, non-celebrities who look indistinguishable from 26 year-olds. I also know many women in their 40s who easily look between 30-33. This trend will continue and get better, barring the usual problem of Western women getting fatter as they age, which is still a huge problem.

If you ladies want to be hot as you get older, all you have to do is not gain weight, which is completely your choice. That’s seriously about 80% of it.

6. They’re more or less required for most older men. As an official “older guy” (I consider men over age 35 as “older”), I have dated women of all ages, from 18 year-old girls to women 50+. As always, as long as they’re trim, good-looking and low-drama, I’ll go there. However, I realize that most men are not like this. Most guys have a very specific age ranges they stick to when it comes to women. Some men like younger women and refuse to date women their own age. Many men refuse to date any women older than themselves.

In particular, many men my age don’t like dating much younger women and find these women irritating and/or immature. Other older guys are new to the dating or Alpha Male game and don’t have the skills or confidence to date much younger women yet. Both these groups of men must date women over 33, regardless of their downsides. It’s perfectly understandable. Younger women aren’t for everyone. Moreover, I didn’t start with younger women when I first got back into the game. Instead, I focused on women my own age and slowly moved down the age scale as I got better and more comfortable with the process.

In part two of this article, I will cover the specific techniques that women over 33 require in both dating/seduction and relationships that make them different from women ages 18-32. Stay tuned.

182 Comments on “How To Date Women Over 33 – Part One

  1. I’ll add my 2 cents. If you’re an older guy (35+), you’re better off not even bothering with women over 33 for sex. The ROI is too low, most are looking for that special “connection” and Disney fairytale, plus they WAY over estimate their SMV thanks to Disney and Hollywood. I’m 42 and struggle big time laying chicks 35+, they still think that they can be picky princesses even at that age (at least in Australia) , but I banged a 22 year old a few months back with no problems.

     

    The ones who have the best shot with 33+ chicks are young good looking guys who are “couger material” if he’s into that, but older guys, if you’re looking to get laid with a better ROI, you’re better off concentrating on younger chicks, plus they’re hotter in general anyway.

  2. This is a well done article, but you forgot something on point number six. The probability of a man to attract younger women diminishes when he is in his fifties and even more so in his sixties and beyond no matter how good his seduction skills because the younger women especially in the USA want younger men. As you said before, 40% of women will not be with an older man, 40 % are open to being with an older man and 20% want to be with an older man, but there are age limits. A high percentage of women may love DILFs, Daddy I’d Like to Fuck, but a lower percentage of women want to be with male GILFs, Grandfathers I’d Like to Fuck. The same can be said of young men in that there is a higher percentage of them willing to be with MILFs, Mothers I’d Like to Fuck than female GILFs, Grandmothers I’d Like to Fuck. Some heterosexual middle aged men and many middle aged women will go for relationships with older women and older men respectively. Even if he is still able to do it, he is much more likely to have a gold digging sugar baby who is more likely to leave him if he financially fails or maybe turn into a worse harpy than an older woman if she stays.

  3. I recently decided to try dating a couple of over 33’s after almost exclusively dating women under 25 all my life (the VYW are becoming harder for me to get now I’m nearly 40). They both still looked pretty attractive but one gave me the ‘where is this going?’ speech on the SECOND DATE, before we’d even had sex! I immediately nexted that one.

    Another one told me she didn’t have sex outside of a committed relationship so I had to hard next her as well. These are the same girls that gave it up for bad boy thugs when they were hotter, younger and tighter. But they expect me to pay for several expensive dates and/or dinners before any sex occurs? Well f**k that.

    However one thing I will agree with BD on is their schedules. It was easy to get dates with these women (via Tinder as it happens, they actually messaged me first!) and there was no flaking or messing me about. However I didn’t really feel a huge attraction for either of them so it was easy to next them. Looks like it’s back to the under-30 women for me.

  4. I’m always amused at your descriptions of older women.  The reason older women are more difficult to get in bed is not because of Disney, but because we are smarter.  We’ve had more opportunity to see how men work and see through the bullshit.

    Life has taught us that if you do things the way men want, you lose out.  If you sleep with them quickly, they treat you like shit in return.  We have to adapt all these stupid “rules” in order to get men to behave decently towards us.  Its a shame, but it is what it is.

    P.S. I’m 39 and I would hate talking about any of those “masculine” topics and stare at you blankly.  Okay, maybe I would nod my head and pretend to know what the fuck you were saying, or to care, but I wouldn’t. 😉

  5. @ Sparks,

    Thanks for seconding what I said. Then women wonder why prostitution still exists. Then they consciously or unconsciously realize why and are more likely to ban it than men. Without sex, relationships with women are pointless, and yes exceptions prove the rule.  You are right to point out that middle aged women charge too high of a price. You could easily spend $300-$500 on two  or more women and not get sex while a better looking, usually better looking and better in bed prostitute gives you sex for the same amount of money. You are also correct that younger women are generally speaking better for all the reasons you describe and more. At least the paid whore is a more honest and less expensive whore than the women you try to dinner date.

  6. they WAY over estimate their SMV thanks to Disney and Hollywood. I’m 42 and struggle big time laying chicks 35+, they still think that they can be picky princesses even at that age (at least in Australia) , but I banged a 22 year old a few months back with no problems.

    Yep, welcome to over-33s.

    The probability of a man to attract younger women diminishes when he is in his fifties and even more so in his sixties and beyond no matter how good his seduction skills

    I addressed that in detail here.

    The bottom line is A) lots of guys in their 50s date much younger women in their 20s, and B) if you’re not ever going to be Disney monogamous, it’s a requirement to stay as physically attractive (low fat, full head of hair, good skin, etc) into your old age as humanly possible, spending the necessary time and money to do so. That’s the “price” you pay for the Alpha 2.0 lifestyle; you can’t allow yourself to let yourself go like a beta or married Alpha 1.0 can.

    gave me the ‘where is this going?’ speech on the SECOND DATE, before we’d even had sex!

    Yep. Welcome to over-33s.

    Another one told me she didn’t have sex outside of a committed relationship so I had to hard next her as well.

    Yep. Welcome to over-33s.

    These are the same girls that gave it up for bad boy thugs when they were hotter, younger and tighter.

    Yep. As I describe here.

    they expect me to pay for several expensive dates and/or dinners before any sex occurs? Well f**k that.

    Yep.

    However one thing I will agree with BD on is their schedules…Looks like it’s back to the under-30 women for me.

    You can always do both; younger and older. That’s what I do. Best of both worlds.

    The reason older women are more difficult to get in bed is not because of Disney, but because we are smarter.

    Right, as I said in this comment here, OLDER WOMEN THINK YOUNGER WOMEN ARE STUPID. Yes LG, every woman age 32 or under is stupid and has no idea how men work. Yeah.

    Life has taught us that if you do things the way men want, you lose out.  If you sleep with them quickly, they treat you like shit in return.

    A more accurate way of saying it this: “We women over 33 need compliant beta males who will follow our orders, not masculine Alphas. So the best way to screen for pussy-men is to make them wait for sex and demand things like dinner dates.”

  7. Have you tried a strategy of lying to them? Just lie and pretend you want a relationship, create a fun environment, and expect to have sex on the 3rd date (4th date max). If she asks where is this going, just say “I can definitely see us involved”. Then kino, etc.. After you have sex with her a few times, then you tell her “I’m not ready to settle down yet. Sorry.”

    All is fair in love and war.

  8. @ Lovegirl

    And you are still going to charge less in dinner dates for Harley McBadboy before sex than Mr. Niceguy as well as be less likely to string Harley McBadboy along if no sex is forthcoming than Mr. Niceguy even as middle aged women. The truth is you ladies charge too much as you get older. It is debateable at best as to whether you ladies charge too little when you are younger, and I personally believe women charge too much when younger but are better than when they are younger. I’m talking about amateur women, FBs, MLTRs, OLTRs, Girlfriends, wives Dinner Dates etc., here not professionals, that is prostitutes.

  9. @Lovegirl

    Oh I forgot. Amatuer Women of any age charge more to Mr. Niceguy than to Harley McBadboy. I’m not only talking about money but emotions, time, inflicting unnecessary drama etc. Professional women usually charge the same price or at least there isn’t anywhere near the difference in price. You ladies do this even as middle aged women to Mr. Niceguy who doesn’t tingle your gina as much as Harley McBadboy considering Mr. Niceguy as less human even though he has probably caused less harm to you than the Harley McBadboy. It sure costs a lot more for a middle aged man to learn GAME than a young man in money, emotions, time etc.

  10. Right, as I said in this comment here, OLDER WOMEN THINK YOUNGER WOMEN ARE STUPID. Yes LG, every woman age 32 or under is stupid and has no idea how men work. Yeah.

    No one is calling younger women stupid.  I’m saying we LEARN from life experience to be smarter when it comes to men.  Younger women are 10x more naive.  Men know that and take full advantage of it, resulting in the behavior and expectations you get from older, wiser women.

    A more accurate way of saying it this: “We women over 33 need compliant beta males who will follow our orders, not masculine Alphas. So the best way to screen for pussy-men is to make them wait for sex and demand things like dinner dates.”

    No, not really.  The exact same “alpha” men that treat women who sleep with them easily like doormats, will worship the ground a woman who  makes them wait for sex walks on, even if she’s butt ugly.  I’ve witnessed it over and over again.

  11. And you are still going to charge less in dinner dates for Harley McBadboy before sex than Mr. Niceguy as well as be less likely to string Harley McBadboy along if no sex is forthcoming than Mr. Niceguy even as middle aged women. The truth is you ladies charge too much as you get older. It is debateable at best as to whether you ladies charge too little when you are younger, and I personally believe women charge too much when younger but are better than when they are younger. I’m talking about amateur women, FBs, MLTRs, OLTRs, Girlfriends, wives Dinner Dates etc., here not professionals, that is prostitutes.

    Don’t be ridiculous.  No one is stringing anyone along for dinner dates.  If I’m not interested, he will be a one date wonder and I won’t see him again.  If I am interested, I DO hold men to higher expectations than I did when I was younger.  It helps screen out the losers.

    Case in point, this weekend there were a couple of guys I was talking to from Plenty of Fish.  Both were from out of town.  Both were physically attractive to me.

    One of the guys is a personal trainer and a boxer.  He was here for a boxing tournament.  He took me out for a casual dinner, then out to a sports bar for drinks, followed by sex in his hotel room.  Easy-peasy, he paid, no stress on either part from either of us.  I don’t expect to see him again, but you never know.  He texted the next night and I was busy so didn’t respond.

    The other guy, kept trying to dip and dodge taking me out on a date.  So I kept dipping and dodging meeting him.  I told him no way in hell was I going to go straight back to his hotel room.  He acted like I was being a prude.

    Am I prude? Hardly, lol.  I just expect a guy to behave in a respectable manner.  He later made a comment about my other date (he knew I was going on a date because I told him, I didn’t tell him I had sex).  He said “it was lame, wasn’t it”?

    Actually, no.  It wasn’t lame… What was lame was his trying to evade treating me decently, and I told him that.  I won’t be surprised at all if he hits me up when he comes back and eventually offers to take me on a date.  Men love working for it….

  12. Well I believe the over 30 have their experiences wrong and their head full of SP. Younger women will feel lucky when they experience such a thing instead of embarassment. If they find a guy that “teaches” them polygamy, they are going through life with much more experience than your typical over 30 who had none of this.

    Over 30 with no such experience will demand 1000 things from a guy before having sex with him unless its a one night stand with a young guy(and a few other exceptions).

    To believe that over 30s have their experiences in order and understand men better is naive. Over 30s just screen more and demand more, because mostly they met men who were “gentlemen” doing all their favours or some punks who treated them like garbages. Eventually these screenings and these demands are what will end the relationship.

  13. I’m 40. I’m a woman. In the last year I’ve had two attractive younger women as my FBs. If you guys my age want to sleep with younger women, go right ahead, younger women are a lot of fun. I’m continually impressed by younger women’s drive, intelligence and their cute young bodies.

    I’ve never seen younger or other women as my competition. If a man chooses to be with a younger or other woman, instead of me, I let him go. The patterns tell me if he is the type of man I’m looking for, he’ll be back. If he wasn’t meant to be a connection, he won’t.

    I can empathize with men. You don’t want to be seen as a walking wallet. I don’t blame you.

    I don’t want to be seen as my weight (I’m chubby) BUT I am. That’s the reality of today’s codependent  society. Until we are strong enough to call “BULLSHIT” and that we’ve had enough, nothing is going to change in our personal lives, for fulfillment and happiness.

    There’s no such thing as the “One”. You are attracted to each other, NRE starts and after that phase, if you choose to NOT work on yourselves as individuals AND work on yourselves as couples, the bickering and bullshit begins….

    Codependence…I won’t call you on my bullshit, if you won’t call me on mine.

  14. Lovegirl the thing is this. You don’t know what you want from your life. You don’t have rules set for yourself. You are open to an one night stand(in which you will be open to that to an Alpha bad boy), to an open relationship(in which you will be open to an Alpha “gentleman”) and probably to a monogamous relationship(in which you will be open to the guy who treats you like a princess).

    You can’t be playing around with all those situations it messes your life and eventually you will end up with the monogamous just to settle down and the one you will hate the most.

    And this is why you keep wondering about this and that and don’t understand what we are talking about here. No you don’t understand men anymore than the younger one, all men want to fuck you and nothing more. Other men are pussies and treat the dates as such, other men are straightforward. The whole point of this is to first understand yourself and what you want from your life and what kind of relationship…not what you expect from others.

  15. Well, whatever the reason is…. Experience, SP, or whatever….  I think we are in agreement that women in their 30’s have all sorts of Rules that the younger ones don’t have.

    I do think it boils down to ASD though… one prevailing thing is that the older women are always shitting on the younger ones, one way or another….  “Young women are Stupid” or “Young women are just sluts” or “Young women don’t know how to satisfy a man”  ….. It goes on and on and on …  It’s very tiring.

    Don’t tell me that young women don’t have the proper “experience” either to deal with men.   Many of them (especially the really hot ones) know exactly what they’re doing.

  16. Have you tried a strategy of lying to them?

    I don’t lie. It’s part of my personal Code. And more importantly, lying to women eventually creates drama, and I don’t do drama.

    I do admit that would probably work though, particularly if you’re just going after one night stands or similar. But I only do long-term relationships, so I need to be truthful if I want to keep drama low.

    The truth is you ladies charge too much as you get older.

    Correct.

    Ok. Your advice helps. What happens in a men’s 60s, 70s and beyond?

    A. He’s been taking care of himself so he looks like Liam Neeson or Stallone, so he’s clearly old, but not gross.

    B. He focuses on hot, young-looking women over 30 (which are still “young,” at least to him) and/or young hot sugar babies / hookers who cost a little money (which he should have at that age), and occasionally gets the “free” young hottie every once and a while.

    No one is calling younger women stupid.

    Then you say…

    Younger women are 10x more naive.

    Sounds like stupid to me. And like you were already told, most younger women know exactly what they’re doing. If you’re talking about 19 year-olds, then perhaps with some of those, sure. But if you’re saying 29 year-olds are 10x more naive than 35 year olds, then you’re crazy. Remember when I say “younger” I mean all women age 18-32, not just 18 or 19 year-olds like you seem to be thinking.

    I have sex with 27-31 year-olds within 3-4 hours of face time all the time. Are they all naive idiots too?

    The exact same “alpha” men that treat women who sleep with them easily like doormats, will worship the ground a woman who  makes them wait for sex walks on, even if she’s butt ugly.  I’ve witnessed it over and over again.

    No. I’ve seen stuff like this too but true Alphas aren’t going around “worshiping the ground” of women who don’t have sex with them on the first or second date. Sorry. Those are betas (or extremely needy, dysfunctional Alphas) you seem to think are Alphas.

    No one is stringing anyone along for dinner dates.  If I’m not interested, he will be a one date wonder and I won’t see him again.  If I am interested, I DO hold men to higher expectations than I did when I was younger.

    Yes, and your “higher expectations” are dinner dates (or similar).

    It helps screen out the losers.

    It helps screen out the men who won’t follow your orders and agree to your ASD / Disney / feminine agenda.

    Hey, I agree that as a screening-for-betas method, not having sex with men quickly works. Go for it if that’s what you want, but I and men like me won’t be dating women like you though.

    I do think it boils down to ASD though… one prevailing thing is that the older women are always shitting on the younger ones, one way or another….  “Young women are Stupid” or “Young women are just sluts” or “Young women don’t know how to satisfy a man”  ….. It goes on and on and on …  It’s very tiring.

    Yep. Very.

    Of course it’s ASD. “Women who fuck men fast are stupid (or ‘naive’).” Can’t get more ASD than that!

    Don’t tell me that young women don’t have the proper “experience” either to deal with men.   Many of them (especially the really hot ones) know exactly what they’re doing.

    Exactly, and I can verify this. Older women like Lovergirl can’t admit this because it tears down their entire argument.

    Younger women like sex, like men, like freedom, aren’t (necessarily) looking for a husband at any time in the near future, have lower ASD, and less SP. It has nothing to do with intelligence or naivety.

  17. Lovegirl the thing is this. You don’t know what you want from your life. You don’t have rules set for yourself. You are open to an one night stand(in which you will be open to that to an Alpha bad boy), to an open relationship(in which you will be open to an Alpha “gentleman”) and probably to a monogamous relationship(in which you will be open to the guy who treats you like a princess).

    Um, are YOU not open to all those things?  Why should I not be?  Because I am a woman?  I love how you are telling me to “set rules” right after yet another post bitching about how women have “rules”….

  18. To believe that over 30s have their experiences in order and understand men better is naive. Over 30s just screen more and demand more, because mostly they met men who were “gentlemen” doing all their favours or some punks who treated them like garbages. Eventually these screenings and these demands are what will end the relationship.

    Screening doesn’t end relationships.  It keeps them from starting, which is the point. To say that experience doesn’t or shouldn’t change how women react to men, is is way more than naive, it’s flat out stupid.  Of course experience tailors how people behave.  Men want to whine and complain about how women are but the truth is we are that way because of MEN and how men treat women and have treated us. We see what works and what doesn’t, just like men do with women.

  19. There are strategies to date older women and decrease the facetime to fuck ratio (some discussed on this very blog), but even so it’s a lot of hassle!!!

    More experienced Alphas do not want to waste their times catering to such demands when they know there are hordes of VYW dying to have their dicks. Experienced chicks like LG must understand that it’s not only about sex for us…sometimes we choose the “easier” path just to have some peace of mind.

    Give me one hot babe who’s 20, 21 and wants to hop my dick on the first date, go to swing clubs and learn the ways of sex with me and I’ll date her without blinking. She’s 100% fun!

    Now give me a hot over 33 woman who has this absurd list of demands and will make me jump a ton of hurdles before sex, only because she is “a lady”, needs to fell validated and deep down is screening for a provider. I’ll think 1000 times before putting her on my radar.

    I too date over 33 woman. And I too absolutely love them when we have any kind of relationship. But I’m 100% with BD on this one: I do not cold approach them anymore. Not worth the trouble.

  20. I do think it boils down to ASD though… one prevailing thing is that the older women are always shitting on the younger ones, one way or another….  “Young women are Stupid” or “Young women are just sluts” or “Young women don’t know how to satisfy a man”  ….. It goes on and on and on …  It’s very tiring.

    I find it fascinating how the men on this thread have tried to twist and turn my comments into somehow being insulting towards younger women, rather than actually listen to what I am saying.  It has nothing to do with younger women at all. I’m talking about the process of how women become the way we are as “older” women that have higher expectations from men.  We learned from our own mistakes as younger women and we see younger women making those mistakes now and try to warn them ahead of time.

  21. Don’t tell me that young women don’t have the proper “experience” either to deal with men.   Many of them (especially the really hot ones) know exactly what they’re doing.

    Sadly, they don’t.  Most will have to learn the hard way and will continue to make mistakes, just like the rest of us.  I have younger sisters and I see them and their friends falling into the same stupid traps I did when I was younger, on a continual basis.

  22. Sounds like stupid to me. And like you were already told, most younger women know exactly what they’re doing. If you’re talking about 19 year-olds, then perhaps with some of those, sure. But if you’re saying 29 year-olds are 10x more naive than 35 year olds, then you’re crazy. Remember when I say “younger” I mean all women age 18-32, not just 18 or 19 year-olds like you seem to be thinking.

    I was “told” that most younger women “know exactly what they are doing”, but I KNOW that is utter bullshit.  MOST human beings have no idea what the fuck they are doing, let alone young people.  Nobody is harping on the minute details of what “younger” vs “older” means.  I’m simply stating that women learn with age and experience.  To deny that is pretty clueless.

    I have sex with 27-31 year-olds within 3-4 hours of face time all the time. Are they all naive idiots too?

    Again, for some reason you want to make it sound like I am super concerned with what younger women are doing.  I’m not.  I’m explaining why older women have developed methods that actually get them treated much more respectfully than they were when they were young and naive.

  23. No. I’ve seen stuff like this too but true Alphas aren’t going around “worshiping the ground” of women who don’t have sex with them on the first or second date. Sorry. Those are betas (or extremely needy, dysfunctional Alphas) you seem to think are Alphas.

    I’ve seen a bazillion men who slept around, choose a woman as their “main” that played the Madonna role and made them wait for sex.  They then treat her better than the other women in their life, who they don’t respect but sleep with.  It’s pretty standard behavior among men and it isn’t “betas” who are doing this.

  24. Give me one hot babe who’s 20, 21 and wants to hop my dick on the first date, go to swing clubs and learn the ways of sex with me and I’ll date her without blinking. She’s 100% fun!

    This made me laugh….I’ve been to enough swinger parties to safely say that they are not teeming with 20 and 21 year olds.  In fact, the vast majority of people who attend swinger parties are over 40…

  25. Very good pros and cons…. I’ve found in my experiences these two statements to be true…

    “The older the woman, the more baggage.”
    “Older women are bitter; younger women are better.”

    For, those 2 truths, I prefer not to waste my time… the ROI is never worth it.

  26. What are these “mistakes” that women make when they’re young anyway?  Sleeping with who ever they want? enjoying their freedom?  That’s just the nature of being young.

    Sometimes they “fall for a guy”,  and then that guy turns out to be an asshole…. Sure, that hurts (a lot!, I’m sure)… but for every one of those.. there’s the 100 other cases where they sleep with random dudes and then brag about it to their friends.  For a young hot woman with lots of options, this is a good trade off…. and they fully understand this, and they can tell you all about it.

     

  27. Men want to whine and complain about how women are but the truth is we are that way because of MEN and how men treat women and have treated us.

    Well, isn’t this exactly the point? Men who don’t know what they want date women who don’t know what they want, women don’t like the results (but still don’t know what it is that they want) and change their behavior. Their new behavior brings them no closer to happiness either and causes problems to men as well.

  28. So i found this blog a while back and thought it was a good one to get feedback on the way men think nowadays.

    Well, look a what I’ve found here! I barely turned 33 this month and I have to admit I can relate to this article sounding way too familiar.

    I think it’s insane how jaded some men have become!

    LOL Dammed if you dammed if you don’t. I personally am not the type to string anyone along. I’ll let you know if i’m interested, basically I might even initially approach you (I prefer it this way I’ve realized). At this point we are all adults and sometimes it’s easier with no strings attached but ideally what we all want is to grow old with someone so that when we are 50+ we’ll have someone there. What happened to just being honest and real about what you want? If you want sex okay be honest and say it, hey we all have needs and if i’m attracted to you physically then it might just happen (i’m def not the type to sleep around but i respect honesty so that might get you somewhere). Men play too many games and the many posts on this blog and it’s commentators support that.

    I’m 33, I act like maybe 36 (sometimes 28 lol), and I look 26.

    Unfortunately though being honest doesn’t get me anywhere and if I am interested then they doubt my intentions as if I’m out to get them. I feel that when you decide to play games you’re essentially playing on your own, you created the rules and didn’t tell me so how can I join you? then you’re left there wondering what happened coming up with other strategies to get me back (has happened  so many times). By then it’s like geez grow up, you’ll be 50+ still writing or searching online on more rules to apply to your lone wolf script.

    At 33 I’m also more guarded and maybe even jaded myself bc the men I meet seem to just want one thing with little to no effort. I find that most men now are keeping record of the money spent on a woman. I truly understand why, that’s bc the women that they approach might have used them for a free dinner here and there and I sympathize. So after so many honest attempts they become bitter at the idea that the next one may  do the same and then when they finally meet someone worthy they let those insecurities take over instead of thinking okay- let me not let my fears get in the way and maybe take this girl out to a nice lowkey place to chat then after that for some ice cream. The second date to a nice and good hole in the wall, then on the third date okay some thing light and fun…and finally by the fourth date you can take her to the best date you can think of and bc by then you might have established a nice rapport and analysis on the type of woman that she is and by then she would have respected your approach bc you seem to be calculated and smart and i’m sure she would finally hook up with you.

    BUT guess what all of this would happen and then he vanishes, lol uhmmm why? Men like the chase and then they’re turned off bc that was easy yet not so easy but yet when the girl does make them wait months they secretly resent her for it, like wasn’t I good enough for you. Wasn’t all the minimal hours it took on each date worth it, you wasted my time two hours here and there a lot, I don’t have time to waste- my time is valuable? LIKE damn, you’re counting your money and you’re counting your time geez then they wonder why some women rather use them. Like play it off player. You din’t lose much if you were genuinely interested what better else did you have to do then to have at least known and appreciate her time. If anything take away an experience that doesn’t involve sex. Is sex really the most fulfilling to a guy than a spiritual connection or friendship? Hey maybe when you are fifty and you find yourself alone, that same girl that didn’t give you a chance will probably give you one when you’ve grown up and can be her match.

    Luckily i’ve always been approached by alpha male, self made and i can say i have  never used them, and taken advantage of them like even at nineteen to now i’ve had guys wanting to be my sugar daddy but i never gave in to that. I am not an object! i don’t play games and even this will intimidate a guy who is full of them. Dammed if you dammed if you don’t.

  29. Uhh no I’m not playing around currently with all those scenarios. I avoid one night stands and monogamy. So if a woman wants monogamy she is gone. If she keeps on pushing for many dates before having sex she is gone etc.

    I said about setting rules for yourself not for others. I don’t set the rule of no monogamy to others, I set it for myself.

    Clearly you don’t know what you want from life and this is why you blame men for this and that. If monogamy is your goal, then set a rule for yourself to have sex with men who take you out on 10 dates and spend 1000+. If you want one night stands then set a rule for yourself not to go out on a 2nd date with a guy who didn’t attract you enough on the first date to have sex with him etc. The problem is you set the rules to the other person and you blame the other person if he doesn’t follow through. No its you and what kind of relationship you want. That way you know how you will behave in every situation with any character. And eventually the way you behave will attract mostly the kind of personalities you seek.

    Screening starts and ends the relationship. Your list is huge, you demand so many things from a guy and when the relationship moves on to more serious things you see that half of the list is a lie. Then you go “you didn’t take me to a fancy dinner twice this week, you don’t care about me anymore” or “you were rude commenting about my body you are not the gentleman i knew” and other BS. If you have sex quickly with a guy then you don’t screen and don’t expect as much from him. This way the relationship is more relaxed. If the guy starts choking you, he is out. If he is an asshole and treats you like shit he is out. More than enough screening.

  30. BD (and other guys); does this ASD continue growing in women post 30’s? Or does it peak then decline. I cant imagine a 50 year old having the same (or more!) rules as the beast that is the 35 year old in Full Provider Hunter Mode. I would have thought that as their SMV takes a sharp turn downwards then their rules and hoops get reduced. Is there a graph that can be charted for this? Age Post 33 V Meet to Lay Time? And is there a correlation to whether she has kids or not (ie in FPH Mode or not)?

  31. There will be an epidemic in the west with women ending up old and alone, and it will be all their own doing. Single men due to their frustrations will move to South East Asia to score younger women and be done with western women. I’m already considering this.

  32. @ Jack Outside the Box

    How do you create the gray boxes, to show the comment, you’re responding to?

    …thanks.

  33. @ John,

    There will be an epidemic in the west with women ending up old and alone, and it will be all their own doing. Single men due to their frustrations will move to South East Asia to score younger women and be done with western women. I’m already considering this.

    —————-

     

    Not true….America has the highest amount of Beta males… just look at what Russell Wilson just did.

  34. ideally what we all want is to grow old with someone so that when we are 50+ we’ll have someone there.

    Speak for yourself, please.

    (i’m def not the type to sleep around

    Next!

    you’ll be 50+ still writing or searching online on more rules to apply to your lone wolf script.

    If I’m lucky. You can never learn too much, even as a sexually successful player!

    the men I meet seem to just want one thing with little to no effort.

    Women would solve all their relationship problems and fix all their delusions if they would simply delete the word “just” from their vocabulary. Seriously, never use that word again and your happiness with men will soar like an eagle.

    And yes, everything begins with sex. Without sex, you’ve got nothing. With sex, the door to potentially everything opens up. Deal with it.

    and maybe take this girl out

    Men shouldn’t be “taking women out.” Men and women should make a mutual decision to go out if they like each other. But I’m not “taking” you anywhere. Taking implies I’m paying for you, and I don’t do that.

    and finally by the fourth date you can take her to the best date you can think of

    Hell no! And before we’ve even had sex???? What are you smoking?

    and bc by then you might have established a nice rapport and analysis on the type of woman that she is and by then she would have respected your approach bc you seem to be calculated and smart and i’m sure she would finally hook up with you.

    After I take her out on fancy dinner dates? Um, no! Forget it!

    BUT guess what all of this would happen and then he vanishes, lol uhmmm why? Men like the chase and then they’re turned off bc that was easy yet not so easy but yet when the girl does make them wait months they secretly resent her for it, like wasn’t I good enough for you.

    Men are different from other men. Some men are slut shamers and expect you to make them work for it. Other men, like me, will resent you if you make them work for it and don’t even want to meet you if you haven’t slept with at least 10 men or more. Men have different preferences from other men.

    Is sex really the most fulfilling to a guy than a spiritual connection or friendship?

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh man, I have no words!

    Your thinking is Disney to the core! It all starts with sex!

    Hey maybe when you are fifty and you find yourself alone,

    Stop right there! Women, not men, are the ones who wake up screaming in a cold sweat that they will end up alone with cats at the age of 50. This is a female fear. Stop trying to project it unto us. It is women who fear loneliness more than men and can handle it less well then men! In this case, men have the upper hand. We know you can tolerate loneliness at age 50 less than us, so I suggest you keep that in mind before shoving your Disney agenda down our throats.

    It’s YOU who is worried about dying lonely. Not us. Understand that you need us more than we need you in that department, so please stop trying to scare us with that. It is we who can scare you with that, if anything!

    that same girl that didn’t give you a chance will probably give you one when you’ve grown up and can be her match.

    And I will take great sadistic pleasure in telling that desperate 50 year old woman who rejected me in high school and treated me like absolute garbage – “No.” Payback is a bitch! If the kitten didn’t want me, then I don’t want the cat!

    I say this to all the teenage girls and younger women – if you reject certain men now, expect to be rejected by those same men when you’re 50 as payback! If you don’t care about that, then by all means reject them. But if you do, think carefully before you treat them like shit because they will give that shit right back to you when you’re 50 and lonely and they are financially successful, unless these men have zero self esteem, which, I suppose, is possible for some of these real beta males!

     

  35. @ Jack Outside the Box

    How do you create the gray boxes, to show the comment, you’re responding to?

    …thanks.

    Highlight the comment you respond to. Right click on it and copy. Go to the comment box. Right click and hit paste. Then highlight the comment again and click on the quotation marks in the upper corner of the comment box.

  36. How do you know that this over/under 33 thing is a reflection of age rather than culture and demographics. I can’t help but notice that 5 or so years ago when you developed this theory, a 33-year-old would have been a woman who graduated college JUST after Sex and the City happened.

    And since then, there has been a HUGE cultural shift in how acceptable promiscuity is for women. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but all of my friends are women from 33-39 and they all sleep with guys on the first date (or non-date, just a guy they just met, in many instances). Young girls in the 90s did NOT act like that, and the few that did were very, very undercover about it. And I know plenty of 30-something women who have sex with lots of men now, because it’s socially accepted and facilitated by Tinder and reflected on TV, who in their 20s were monogamous.

    Sex and the City came out in 99 I believe. It had a huge impact. I remember guys complaining at the time that it was totally unrealistic because women would never treat sex like that and how it was really a show about gay men, not women. They were in denial. And that was the first of many, many shows and now it looks quaint. I’m not saying your older versus younger women thing doesn’t have some validity, but I don’t think you can downplay the cultural change. Men have changed too. Over 35 men act very differently (ie more conservatively) than under 35 men, sexually and romantically. Their standards, mostly set by the media, social media, and porn, are very different.

    It’s funny because with a lot of this stuff, I’ve been making my arguments and trying to explain how women really are to men since the 90s, but it’s only now that they will (sometimes) believe me. Men used to be so convinced that women were BIOLOGICALLY monogamous. That’s what people used to think. I would state my theories and they would think I was insane. And those who came of age in the 90s or before are still somewhat wired for those beliefs — men and women. I always argued that it wasn’t biological, it was culturally imposed and that if you let women do what they want they would be much more promiscuous. But it’s only nowadays that men are starting to realize that. There has always been a nature/nurture argument and absent an experimental test planet, you can’t always figure it out. But you can look at how people’s behavior changes with culture and it’s clear that as soon as women are socially given the option to be promiscuous without it having a negative impact on her social status, she will generally do so.

    I don’t think we should forget how different standards were in the 90s. People couldn’t just look at a magical box in their hand and shop for people and sex. They had to actually go out in public, deal with a social setting, and be watched and judged by other people. Not so anymore.

     

  37. LOL Dammed if you dammed if you don’t.

    You’re not damned if you fuck me quickly.

    ideally what we all want is to grow old with someone so that when we are 50+ we’ll have someone there

    Very few people really want that and it no longer works. Please read this and this.

    If you want sex okay be honest and say it

    And then watch that over-33 woman call you pig and walk out.

    At 33 I’m also more guarded and maybe even jaded myself bc the men I meet seem to just want one thing with little to no effort.

    Correct. That’s what we want. The point here is that when you were 25 this didn’t bother you.

    Men like the chase

    No, women like the chase and some men like the chase. Many other men hate the chase and just want to get laid so they can relax and build a relationship with you. Read this.

    Is sex really the most fulfilling to a guy than a spiritual connection or friendship?

    No, but sex is required for a man to experience a spiritual connection.

    And friend zone is abusive.

    Hey maybe when you are fifty and you find yourself alone

    When I’m 50 I’ll have at least two women on rotation, if not three or four. A man ending up “alone in his old age” is a beta, not an Alpha.

    You really need to do some more reading on this blog. Your entire perception is skewed by false Societal Programming and ASD.

  38. does this ASD continue growing in women post 30’s? Or does it peak then decline. I cant imagine a 50 year old having the same (or more!) rules as the beast that is the 35 year old in Full Provider Hunter Mode.

    Read the link Jack provided.

    In summary, a woman’s 30s is a unique time because it’s the convergence of two things:

    1. Sky-high ASD.

    2. The fact she’s still reasonably hot and desired by men.

    Add those two together, and that means she’s going to make all kinds of crazy demands of men that women in their 20s don’t (because ASD is lower) and women in their 50s don’t (because they’re not desirable anymore and know it).

    Both Lovergirl and S-cool-me did not demand this crazy bullshit from men when they were 25. And they won’t when they’re 55. But they will now, for a while. Because they can. (Remember, most men are betas.) 30s is a bizarre time for women.

    Women in their 50s are often super chill, whereas women in their 30s are some of the most stressed out people I’ve ever met.

  39. I say this to all the teenage girls and younger women – if you reject certain men now, expect to be rejected by those same men when you’re 50 as payback! If you don’t care about that, then by all means reject them. But if you do, think carefully before you treat them like shit because they will give that shit right back to you when you’re 50 and lonely and they are financially successful, unless these men have zero self esteem, which, I suppose, is possible for some of these real beta males!

    Sweetheart, I’m 40, have my shit together, except I’m 20lbs too heavy and if I die alone, I hope its somewhere cool. I’ve really embraced my slutty side the last 14 months. Prior to that, after going to Catholic school, I spent a lot of time ashamed of my natural, womanly body and getting myself off 3-5 times a day. It wasn’t because men weren’t attracted to me. It was “The Rules”. I was a pretty, yet nerdy, awkward girl and the day my sister handed me that book, its the day I want to time travel to and knock it out of my twentysomething hands.

    I’ve worked alongside men for many years, I’ve seen women do all the things you said and more. To military men, business owners, all types of men. I guarantee I did a lot of the behaviors that annoyed the piss out of men. I was young and dumb and now I’m much wiser. I would say that all the years I spent following “The Rules”, they are years I’ll never get back. That’s sad.

    Resentment is like taking poison and expecting the other people to die. “Payback” will cost YOU more than you think and it sounds like you aren’t outcome independent, if you need  “payback”.

    Women are just women. Most of us aren’t evil, we are VERY clueless about what we want because of all the fucked up SP that’s drilled into us. It’s also OUR nature to be dynamic. I LOVE it, but understand why men do not. We appear crazy.

    I dated an INTJ about a year ago He said to me, “It’s the female priority to fit in.” This was after he made all these “demands” and “setting me straight”. Things ended, but instead of being bitter about it (I ate a pint of ice cream) I tried to figure out how I could improve myself for my next relationship.

    The very next man I got very serious with? I sat him down and made him watch “The Crazy/Hot Matrix” Its my shit test. If a man thinks that’s funny, he’s doable, he has a basic understanding of what women are actually like. I now have several wonderful men (yes, they all know about each other) and don’t need to put in any effort. It’s because I put on my big girl pants and said “What can you learn from this?”, instead of “that guy is a freaking idiot and he’s going to be sorry.”

    I found BD about 6 months ago. I had a Needy Alpha, that I cared about and he and I blew up. I asked him to live next door to me and some other things. Anyways, he’s back in my life. Do I think its headed towards a Disney fairytale? fuck no, but I hope I know him for the rest of my life because he’s an incredible human being and I don’t need any fairytale.

    Just my 2 cents and I’m not even sure its worth that. 😉

  40. Have you tried a strategy of lying to them? Just lie and pretend you want a relationship, create a fun environment, and expect to have sex on the 3rd date (4th date max). If she asks where is this going, just say “I can definitely see us involved”. Then kino, etc.. After you have sex with her a few times, then you tell her “I’m not ready to settle down yet. Sorry.”

    All is fair in love and war.

    I’m a little guilty of lying sometimes, as I have no code like BD. I am wondering if these women can be converted after lock down (having sex twice) though.

    I don’t have much experience with over 33s, but if a guy doesn’t mind spending a little time and money on dates and or insinuating the possibility of a “relationship”, would he be able to convert her to mltr fb?

    Would one be able to do the reverse of what women do? Women usually have sex and soon after push for monogamy if the man doesn’t first. Once the relationship is “established” (lock down for women) women will increase demands and gradually lower sex.

    So would men be able to spend money and put in the time; and then after lock down gradually bump down to a once a week mltr or even fb? I don’t see why this shouldn’t work as long as one is sleeping with other women to avoid oneitis, but what do I know.

  41. Both Lovergirl and S-cool-me did not demand this crazy bullshit from men when they were 25.

    What crazy bullshit?  That a man treat me with a certain amount of decorum and respect.  Wow, that’s really fucking crazy!  Eyeroll……

    If you read what I wrote up above, I slept with a man, this weekend, on the first date.  I chose HIM over the other guy because he wasn’t acting like a retard about taking me on a date.  He just did it.

    Being evasive and trying to avoid going on dates is lame.  It’s how immature teenage boys behave.  I’m perfectly happy to screen those guys out and I promise you I will never regret it.  The chance of me being any more interested in playing games with men in my 50’s is pretty damn slim.

  42.  

    What crazy bullshit?  That a man treat me with a certain amount of decorum and respect.

    No. That a man buy you dinner several times before sex.

    I show decorum and respect for women on our first and second dates. And I expect sex on the second.

    If you read what I wrote up above, I slept with a man, this weekend, on the first date.

    Then why are you arguing with us?

    I’m telling men to be respectful, not lie, and go for sex within 3-4 hours of face time. Clearly you agree with this…but then you don’t. You’re not making a good case for women being rational here.

  43. Then why are you arguing with us?

    I’m telling men to be respectful, not lie, and go for sex within 3-4 hours of face time. Clearly you agree with this…but then you don’t. You’re not making a good case for women being rational here.

    I didn’t come in here trying to argue with anyone.  Go back and read my comments.  I was simply explaining WHY women behave that way when they are older vs when they are younger.  Y’all are the ones wanting to argue and trying to make it out like I was insulting younger women….  Not a very good case for men being rational.

  44. No. That a man buy you dinner several times before sex.

    I show decorum and respect for women on our first and second dates. And I expect sex on the second.

    Never, anywhere, have I claimed that I make a man buy me dinner “several times” before having sex.

  45. Then after all this arguing, you actually agree with my main point here. Thanks for wasting my time.

  46. Well, I’ve read a few of your blogs now.

    Luckily for me I am an exception to the many rules and theories thrown around here from post to post. Hence what brought me explore why am I greatly misunderstood, judged, and placed onto these sets of categories. I for sure didn’t fit any of your descriptions to the age differences blog linked on one of the above comments.

    I was in two long term relationships from 17-24 then from 26-30. I wasn’t demanding marriage nor kids, i just didn’t think about it, all i cared was to create memories and be in love. Until you grow out of that and now, yes at 33 i’m thinking long term and i will question your intentions bc i know what i want. I do want to meet the right guy that wants what  i want. I don’t want a guy that i could manipulate if i would even call it that. I don’t want a guy like that, those guys don’t get my respect that’s a turn off and they don’t excite me. Yes, I do want the alpha male type, but one that is balanced, one that’s not full of himself bc at some point you have to put your differences aside and compromise in a give and take. That’s if he wants what I want, a relationship with potential.

    I just want a friend i can grow old with, idc for marriage. I’m the type that does not dream about a wedding, i hate that kind of attention onto myself- like i don’t have to prove to the world that I am loved- yes we can celebrate our own little commitment quietly but just promise me you’ll be loyal that’s all i want. i can provide for myself financially, i’ve managed to do that this far. my first ex boyfriend was my teenage love until i turned 23 i started questioning his ambitions and they didn’t coincide with mine so i let that go. Had almost two years to myself with the next guy pursuing me for 8 months and he was a well off business owner, i was impressed but even then didn’t care bc i was working on my own career. That ended as well, I never asked for a dime, didn’t use him for anything. To this day i didn’t grasp the concept of using guys for money because i equate that to selling myself. I’m not saying I’m all that but that would make me feel cheap. And maybe, the men here and yourself don’t understand or doubt me bc i do tend to honor myself and know about values and principles and have always respected myself and the men i was involved with. Both of my ex chased me two years after our breakup and the one i carried the FB for one year until 6 months ago is still reaching out bc they know i was honest and did give them something special. A good and honest experience. I was pure in my way of thinking and i want to still conserve that but hey at age 30+ we all become jaded and our perceptions are distorted to some extent that lead to playing these games, a game of ego to see who is the weakest link, one to fall prey.

    Not all women are the same and not all are the same but for me, if the guy just wants sex then maybe just maybe i would do that if we have established that we are physically attracted to each other with nothing more to be expected. As mentioned, I just had one of those for a year and i got bored of that bc yes, i want more. The problem that I am becoming aware of is that it shouldn’t take that much work. just say what you want so that we are both clear with no drama, and once it’s over no one got hurt, cheated, or manipulated. I carried that affair for a year, no strings attached. He was happy i was happy, i never questioned why he didn’t want nothing more bc he’s 37, no kids either, a bachelor, but it is what it is or was rather and who knows maybe in the future i will need him again. My point is honesty might get you further than you fail to recognize.

    Your blogs are mostly directed to program men to play a game that would end up in a recurring cycle until they’re 50+. Stop the games, tell the woman what it is and one will give in and you might carry that for a year or longer and eventually if you both find each other old and still single then have fun again. As long as no one gets burned then there’s no need to turn off the fire even if it dims you just never know. Yo might reignite that again. Don’t burn bridges and that goes for everything in life.

  47. Then after all this arguing, you actually agree with my main point here. Thanks for wasting my time.

    Sure, I agree with the point that older women are probably going to take more effort. Men can be bitter and angry and upset that women won’t just bend over for them at will because they somehow don’t view them as being desirable enough to deserve self respect.  That’s precisely WHY though.  We are more leery and need to screen MORE for men who respect us as we get older. We aren’t naive and stupid and we can read your intentions better than we could when we were younger.

  48. Highlight the comment you respond to. Right click on it and copy. Go to the comment box. Right click and hit paste. Then highlight the comment again and click on the quotation marks in the upper corner of the comment box.

    Thanks for the tip.

  49. Sure, I agree with the point that older women are probably going to take more effort. Men can be bitter and angry and upset that women won’t just bend over for them at will because they somehow don’t view them as being desirable enough to deserve self respect.  That’s precisely WHY though.  We are more leery and need to screen MORE for men who respect us as we get older. We aren’t naive and stupid and we can read your intentions better than we could when we were younger.

    Keep on screening for Mr. Perfect, then when you eventually hit 50 and no guy wants you anymore, you will be wondering “Where did it go wrong for me”, or “there just aren’t any good men around”.

    Women today are more stupid and naive than ever, brainwashed by social conditioning (especially in the west) and don’t even realise it.

  50. Highlight the comment you respond to. Right click on it and copy. Go to the comment box. Right click and hit paste. Then highlight the comment again and click on the quotation marks in the upper corner of the comment box.

     

    Thanks much…Jack Outside the Box

  51. Of course older women require multiple posts to explain.  How apropos.

    Younger women are 10x more naive.

    LG, let me share a conversation I had two days ago with two 18 year-olds (one of whom is a WD of mine):

    Me: So what happened with that younger guy you were talking to?
     
    VYW: We had sex, but he’s starting to drive me crazy.  Tomorrow I’m going to post a picture of me with another guy on Snapchat to piss him off.
     
    Me:  What about that other guy you met up with on Sunday?
     
    VYW: Oh he’s cool, really nice, but kind of boring.  I think I’m going to make him wait a few months before we have sex.
     
    Me: What happened to that 25 year old?  I haven’t heard about him in a while.
     
    VYW: Oh, we’re done.  He’s too much drama.  I swear, men in their 20s are so easy to fuck with.  Trust me, I’ve been doing it for years.
     
    Me: It’s hard to measure up to me, isn’t it?
     
    VYW: I hate you!  (translation: she loves me ;))

    LG, your statement about younger women is not coming from reality.  Not only are young women super aware in their relationships, but they also COMPLETELY TROUNCE younger men* in terms of game.  I see the chat logs and hear the phone conversations; it’s no contest.

    *Where “younger men” means “men under 30”.

  52. @ John

    Eddie, who is Russel Wilson and what did he do?

    All you have to do is google Russell Wilson (Seattle Seahawks quarterback).

    Here’s a good looking, single guy, worth millions, yet he becomes engaged only after a few months of dating Ciara. In fact, she refuses to have pre-marital. No sex before marriage.  How ironic, when she’s had public affairs with other athletes and rappers. In fact, Ciara is already a single mother and yet Russell Wilson is now wifing her up after all the bad boys had their turn.

    So you see, no matter how wreckless and irresponsible women are with their vaginas and bad life choices, there will always be a gentleman (beta boy) to rescue them….from any and all of life’s consequences or punishments.

  53. LG, your statement about younger women is not coming from reality.  Not only are young women super aware in their relationships, but they also COMPLETELY TROUNCE younger men* in terms of game.  I see the chat logs and hear the phone conversations; it’s no contest.

    *Where “younger men” means “men under 30”.

    OMFG!  Do I really have to explain this AGAIN?!  I never said or meant that younger women are morons.  I said that older women are smartER.  SmartER in the ways of men, because we have been there, did that, enough times to see the patterns.  Got it yet?  Women get smartER as they gain more experience and learn how men work.  We become less likely to fall for their tricks and games and to put up with bullshit.  We wise up, and of course you all don’t like it because you can’t get away with what you do with younger women.

  54. @ John

    Eddie, who is Russel Wilson and what did he do?

    All you have to do is google Russell Wilson (Seattle Seahawks quarterback).

    Here’s a good looking, single guy, worth millions, yet he becomes engaged only after a few months of dating Ciara. In fact, she refuses to have pre-marital. No sex before marriage.  How ironic, when she’s had public affairs with other athletes and rappers. In fact, Ciara is already a single mother and yet Russell Wilson is now wifing her up after all the bad boys had their turn.

    So you see, no matter how wreckless and irresponsible women are with their vaginas and bad life choices, there will always be a gentleman (beta boy) to rescue them….from any and all of life’s consequences or punishments.

    Ha! goes to show money can’t buy dignity

  55. Here’s a good looking, single guy, worth millions, yet he becomes engaged only after a few months of dating Ciara. In fact, she refuses to have pre-marital. No sex before marriage.  How ironic, when she’s had public affairs with other athletes and rappers. In fact, Ciara is already a single mother and yet Russell Wilson is now wifing her up after all the bad boys had their turn.

    Of course he is!  He’s being a typical man who associates no sex with meaning she’s the ONE.  Normal Madonna/Whore male behavior, which you are also exhibiting in your comments about how bad you think it is for him to “wife up” a woman who has given “bad boys their turn”.  He fell in love because she WON’T fuck him, thats what guys do.  If she did, he would treat her like shit and not want to marry her.

    Oh no, she had sex with other guys before him! What a slut! I predict that someday you will marry a woman who holds out on you too…..

  56. @ Lovergirl…

    You totally missed the point.

    If he wasn’t so beta and had better standards…”Never date a single mother” he never would be dealing with all the drama from the baby’s father or have his teammates laughing behind his back about how much of a sucker he is for becoming engaged to a slut.

    And this associating NO Sex, meaning she is the ONE is B.S.

    Read the story…she’s had sex with many men, and it’s all public knowledge… but with him..she makes him wait… she should’ve at best, been a side piece..never the main chick…

    She’s damaged/ used goods

    But, the thing is, she knew she found a beta bitch boy and demanded special treatment.

    Interesting, how all the Alpha males..hit it and nexted her ass.

  57. @ Lovergirl…

    You totally missed the point.

    If he wasn’t so beta and had better standards…”Never date a single mother” he never would be dealing with all the drama from the baby’s father or have his teammates laughing behind his back about how much of a sucker he is for becoming engaged to a slut.

    And this associating NO Sex, meaning she is the ONE is B.S.

    Read the story…she’s had sex with many men, and it’s all public knowledge… but with him..she makes him wait… she should’ve at best been a side piece..never the main chick… but he ‘s too beta….all the Alpha males..hit it and kept it moving.

    I read the story….he sounds just like my ex husband.  That’s what happened with me- I was sleeping with a lot of guys until I dated my ex and he wanted to hold off until marriage, to show his “respect” for me and for God.  Basically, he wanted to “save” me from being such a “slut”.

    He probably has no sex drive,  just like my ex.  Eventually she will cheat on him or leave.  No brainer.  It’s madonna/whore in the extreme.

    Nevertheless, YOU are exhibiting madonna/whore as well. You are acting as though her having had sex with other guys makes HER a bad person or someone not worth marrying.  That attitude is gonna bite you in the butt someday, guaranteed.

    “She’s damaged/ used goods”

    SMFH…. yet you want women to sleep quickly with YOU, so they can become “damaged” and “used” too….

  58. @ Lovergirl… you are so combative and self-righteous. You, my dear, are definitley wrong about me, but that’s no here or there.

    Don’t get it twisted..I love all women, especially sluts…

    I think all women are good for dating (including sluts) but not all women are good for relationships.

    Once you show me, you have no moral character, why would I want to invest and build something with you…by your own bahavior and actions, you have proven yourself unworthy. In fact, your only value is sex.

    Haven’t you heard, The Player’s Code..”You NEVER turn a HO into a housewife.”

    So to be clear…I’m cool with you being a HO…I just will NEVER TRUST a HO. And if I can’t trust you, we can’t have a relationship… but FB is OK….

    Russell should have enough GAME, to let a HO be a HO… and treat her according to WHO she is, nothing more, nothing less.

  59. Don’t get it twisted..I love all women, especially sluts…

    I think all women are good for dating (including sluts) but not all women are good for relationships.

    Once you show me, you have no moral character, why would I want to invest and build something with you…by your own bahavior and actions, you have proven yourself unworthy. In fact, your only value is sex.

    Why is a woman having sex = “no moral character”?  How does that make her “unworthy” when that is what you want with her?  Do you not see the irony in your own words?

    Do you not see that you are contributing to exactly what you are complaining about?  There is not a woman on this earth who wants to be seen as her “only value” being sex.  So when you treat women that way, you teach them that lying to you, and playing the madonna is the way to your heart.  That is what they will do when they want a relationship and that is what you will fall for….. the woman who holds out on sex.

  60. I’ve been with quite a few (hot) over 33s in the last year and a half. However, I am exceptionally good looking and fit for an early 40s guy, I have a middle class type job and although I don’t lie, I often said what an over 33 woman wanted to hear. Finally 8/15 of these over 33s were foreign and were either vacationing here or I was in their country.

    The last few months have gone dry for me in this age group. Fortunately I have been getting much younger women. It seems to me that younger women require a different kind of game than older women so at least for me it is hard to work on both at the same time.

  61. @ Lovergirl….sigh… I will try this one last time.

    I know you know better, you’re just playing dumb… but alright…one last time.

    All women are not created equal… some are only good for dating, while others are good for realationships.

    You have your HOs and that’s all they’re good for…Ho-ing and then you have your Sweethearts.

    In America, the HOs far out number the Sweethearts… Like I said, you’re sadly mistaken..girls don’t hold out on sex from me..I do very well in that department (most of us Entertainers do).

    Although, all girls are manipulative by nature..HOs are different. HOs are Hustlers….and Russell Wilson is getting hustled by a HO, with a baby in tow.

    I know you get this (and if you don’t, it just proves you just want to argue for the sake of arguing or you’re attention-whoring tonight)… it’s not just about the sex…sex is easy to get…it’s the character that counts and HOs have no character.

    Therefore, you don’t violate code…(you don’t turn a HO into a housewife).

  62. LG the moment you agreed on monogamous relationship, the one who cheats is the “bad person”. There is no excuse for that. Jump around all you like, YOU accepted this in the first place and barring some extreme behaviours from the other party your resolve should have been no cheating no divorcing no breaking up till the end of time.

    We both know though this is not true and was never going to happen. So getting married and agreeing to a monogamous relationship makes you naive at best.

  63. In fact, the vast majority of people who attend swinger parties are over 40…

    Wrong. Depends on a lot of factors, but usually they’re between 20-40.

  64. Yes, I do want the alpha male type, but one that is balanced, one that’s not full of himself bc at some point you have to put your differences aside and compromise in a give and take. That’s if he wants what I want, a relationship with potential.

    So S-cool-me wants the mythical submissive alpha.

    I’m starting the think that over 33  year old women in the U.S.  who are divorced are a better bet than women who have never been married. Although they have their own set of issues, they are less delusional about their smv and the way relationships actually work.

  65. In fact, the vast majority of people who attend swinger parties are over 40…

    Wrong. Depends on a lot of factors, but usually they’re between 20-40.

    I’ve been to a pretty wide variety of types of swinger parties and I can count on one hand the times I’ve seen anyone under 30.  I’m almost always one of the youngest people there and I’m 39.  Even on the swinger website I am on, there are hardly any people under 35.

  66. LG the moment you agreed on monogamous relationship, the one who cheats is the “bad person”. There is no excuse for that. Jump around all you like, YOU accepted this in the first place and barring some extreme behaviours from the other party your resolve should have been no cheating no divorcing no breaking up till the end of time.

    We both know though this is not true and was never going to happen. So getting married and agreeing to a monogamous relationship makes you naive at best.

    What is your point?  Yes, I was naive.  I was 18 when I met my ex husband and 20 when I married.  I truly believed we would be married happily ever, forever.  It did last 13 years, (15 if you count when we were dating) which is longer than a lot of people make it.

  67. @ Lovergirl….sigh… I will try this one last time.

    I know you know better, you’re just playing dumb… but alright…one last time.

    All women are not created equal… some are only good for dating, while others are good for realationships.

    You have your HOs and that’s all they’re good for…Ho-ing and then you have your Sweethearts.

    In America, the HOs far out number the Sweethearts… Like I said, you’re sadly mistaken..girls don’t hold out on sex from me..I do very well in that department (most of us Entertainers do).

    Although, all girls are manipulative by nature..HOs are different. HOs are Hustlers….and Russell Wilson is getting hustled by a HO, with a baby in tow.

    I know you get this (and if you don’t, it just proves you just want to argue for the sake of arguing or you’re attention-whoring tonight)… it’s not just about the sex…sex is easy to get…it’s the character that counts and HOs have no character.

    Therefore, you don’t violate code…(you don’t turn a HO into a housewife).

    Eddie, you suffer from serious Madonna/Whore.  It’s a bit surprising that someone reading this blog is unaware of that.  I realize its pretty hardcore societal programming to believe the way you do, but it doesn’t make it true.

    The truth is ALL women are capable of being “sweethearts” and ALL of those same women are capable of being “Ho’s” as you call them.  There is no either/or.

    From what I know of Ciara, she’s been in a few relationships and had a baby.  That doesn’t make her a whore.  That makes her a normal woman.

    You say girls don’t hold out on sex for you and at the same time are saying that you don’t respect women who sleep around.  So you don’t respect the women that are sleeping with YOU.  Therefore, when you fall in love someday, its gonna be with a woman who plays the game and strings you along without fucking you right away.  I can only tell you that you are being a fool so many times.  I’d love to tell YOU that you are playing dumb, but I’m pretty sure you actually believe the madonna/whore lies…

  68. @ Captain

    Married/never married, young/old, men/women, WE all have issues. What do you think you have it figured out? You clearly don’t. Stop denying that we as human beings all want to find companionship, however you both decide to arrange it. You are not an alien, you were born from a human, it is in your nature to desire cohabitation, maybe procreate by choice- but all of these are embedded in our psyche whether you care to accept or not.

    The more you continue to think this is not the case, you’ll always be lost.

    I know your type. This blog is followed by a lot of pretenders, you want to believe that you are an alpha male so bad that you do it wrong- to the point of denying your natural desires, as if you are beyond humanity or say women. Accept women are feminine, yes we want to find a man to procreate (still a maybe for me) but at the very least, companionship.

    The reason we screen is bc for the most part men aren’t truthful about what they want, rightfully so, we are entitled to do that. The older we get, the more we know of what we want. If our list goes up then okay accept or don’t accept. Keep it moving to someone you can get with. If you want to compromise or meet half way then say it, negotiate, you can at least start it off honestly and date for months until you decide if she’s someone for the long run, at the very least you could have established a friendship and you’d get the sex you wanted. Why is this hard to do for you guys on this blog. Take this is a tip, I’m with you, i understand why you all act the way you do, but you do nothing constructive by being bitter, defensive or by putting on a facade that you are an alpha male/a tough guy and tough guys don’t compromise,

    Don’t give Alpha male a bad rep. An alpha male is always truthful from the start. They know what they want, they go out and get it and when it comes to women they settle for the best treat her nice, woo her if she’s worth his time. And if she isn’t at least he is honest with her about his intentions and bc of his stern masculinity she succumbs. This is my idea of true Alpha.

    All i ask is for loyalty, honor and respect while we are together. It is an implied commitment that is also expected when you are in a relationship. If you do not like relationships just say so. The problem is, most men pretend they want one but aren’t willing to work on one for the long run.

     

     

  69. LOL @ lovergirl

    Your comment to Eddie!! LMAO, you nailed it. Most of these comments made by these men show the type of men they really are behind closed door. Those that play the stupid games and have you wondering what happened? Obviously, they have no clue of what it is to be a real man. They come on to blogs to pick up game, a game they don’t understand themselves. Instead of being true to who they really are and their wants.

    Most of the comments on this thread sound oh so very dumb, naive, and clueless.

    BD is the only Alpha male on this blog it seems, at least he is honest when picking up girls, even if his truths are bitter i think i can respect a man that know’s who he is, and what he wants, he lays the terms and conditions from the start. I think his followers need to log off and go experience more and yes, it’s all trials and tribulations when it comes to dating but at least you learn to find yourself and what you are willing to accept. That’s what makes it fun in the end, bc you gain experiences and adventures and moment, memories, all of that and it’s all part of life, and for a man it’s the hunting aspect that should be thrilling.

    i’m a female and i think this way. maybe that’s why i’m single, i see way beyond the games, the facades ever since i was a teenager, i knew the type of person i wanted to be, no games, settle for long term relationships bc it’s the memories and connections i wanted. I didn’t want to sleep around and devalue myself. now i find myself in a lane of my own bc it seems no guy can accept that i’m not your typical woman from the west as they say.

     

  70. Scientist tell us that the society that we live in today, has been in place for 150,000 to 200,000 years. They say that we were imprinted with subconscious responces to guide us in that time of the Tribe.

    They say the Warrior left every day to hunt, gather and spread his seed. Back in the tribe, the Nuturer had a sever pecking order. The older Women dished out harsh scorn to keep the younger Women in line for her yearning to be sexually satisfied.

  71. Dear oh dear. Why are the other guys on here trying to argue logically with women?

    S-cool-me’s argument boils down to NAWALT and in her opinion, the male commenters here aren’t ‘real men’. Good luck finding that submissive alpha you want, a man who doesn’t exist. She also claims it is in men’s nature to desire cohabitation. Personally I have ZERO desire to ever live with a woman. Please do not project what you want onto men, we do not think the same way as women.

    LG’s argument seems to be that younger women give up sex easily because they are less smart/more naive and that older (and in her opinion smarter) women choose to make men wait for sex because it will make them want to marry them. My god. No sexual activity after 3 dates means a hard next from me and I suspect most of the other male commenters. The sex is never worth the wait anyway.

  72. @sparks then why are you trying to do the same?

    I don’t belong to any category is what i’m saying. I just want what i want and no it’s not a submissive alpha, that doesn’t even exist and if it does then that’s what i call a pretender who happens to be straight up beta.

    An alpha male, a real man, knows his needs, he needs a woman as much as the woman needs him. He is the stronger force between the two but also accepts to respect the woman and her desires and needs, provides and commits but if that’s not his thing then yeah at least he is honest from the start/ no games.  A real man isn’t afraid of a woman’s strength and knows how to tame her letting her know he’s in control and leads, then she follows. Most men nowadays don’t exude that type of confidence. Just be, act, be straightforward, honest and lead.

    It sounds like you all don’t want to live with women, simply bc you’ve had a bad experience you can’t write off as women being all the same. Some haven’t even experiences but are so afraid to pursue anything further out of fear. Fear that other’s would view you as a beta, or weak, but the entire time, not pursuing and being dishonest is a coward thing to do as it is.

    To be honest with you. Real men that have a life, that are accomplished aren’t here to argue ‘logic’ with women. You make it sound as if we aren’t smart in our own right. yes we are, maybe even more, and as a favor giving you great feedback but you won’t listen bc women are dumb, naive, want a fairytale are unrealistic, blah blah….hating women won’t do you any good. Love them, love us, stop misjudging us bc of your bad assumptions. Don’t be jaded, don’t be the bad boy that you never were to begin with. What you put out is what you’ll get in return. you hate, you’ll get hate. Nothing worth having is easy to get. *rolls eyes*

  73. An alpha male, a real man… needs a woman as much as the woman needs him.

    Sorry but this is utter bullshit and total projection from a woman’s perspective as it is the woman who needs the Alpha male. Alpha 2.0s do not need any one particular woman, this is one of the things that makes them Alpha, their outcome independence.

     

    A real man isn’t afraid of a woman’s strength

    More feminist claptrap and projection that is part of modern SP and parroted out by every woman in their 30’s. The vast majority of men do not want strong women, they want sweet and submissive women.

     

    It sounds like you all don’t want to live with women simply bc you’ve had a bad experience… blah blah….hating women won’t do you any good.

    I certainly do not hate women, I love women and really enjoy being in their company. But as an INTJ I can only tolerate company for short periods therefore I don’t want to live with a woman full-time. Please stop jumping to the wrong conclusions.

  74. @sparks -again, you admitted to need woman, just not for a long period of time, but as a man still NEED a woman for sex or companionship, temporarily or permanent, the need is there and it goes both ways. We are human and need each other, the feminine energy needs the masculine energy is how attraction works. We all have choices and you’ve made yours. You know what you want or maybe you haven’t got the balls to admit it bc your ego is so grand you believe you are beyond your natural instincts. Humble yourself a bit and learn a different approach to getting what you want from women in a straightforward and honest way.

    All i’m saying is, if you want sex from a 33 year old there is a way to get it, we live in a more open era where you can discuss your wants and needs with no strings attached. all it takes is honesty, but accept that we have our concerns and discrepancies and ultimately the choice to give in on our terms. What’s the big deal, you are not entitled sex simply bc especially if you don’t show effort, and i don’t mean take me out on expensive dates idc for those bc i do that for myself. I’m saying check in with her and spend time, maybe doing nothing, simple things. That will tell you whether she’s genuinely interested and you can build trust, but if she has superficial demands then again that’s your answer and you continue on but don’t let one or a few experiences cloud your view on a billion other women that live on this earth.

    I’m an INTP and i can use that introverted aspect of my personality to my advantage but yeah it is in me to crave companionship, a friendship. i personally don’t care to live with someone, hey easier for me lol, i wouldn’t have to cook for you, do your laundry, hear you snore, smell your farts, clean after you, ugh but if a man is what i want then i might have to compromise. Or if we have our separate living arrangement then okay good, i’ll keep you around until i meet someone who does want what i want. simply. But being honest and communicating those wants will essentially get you closer to your expectations vs playing a game that only you know the rules to….understand?

    HONESTY with yourself first then others! No games. No categorizing yourself as a beta or alpha and not categorizing women as sluts, demanding, naive none of that. At the end of the day, we have our demands and wants.

    People only submit to others when they need something from you, money is usually what they need. A woman that has her own will not deal with that, but she will try to compromise as long as you are honest and respect her for who she is.

     

  75. @ Sparks

    “The vast majority of men do not want strong women, they want sweet and submissive women”

    Is this really true? I don’t need an Alpha to be submissive to me, I can handle myself. It’s their deep need to control me that’s been my problem,

    I’m asking a serious question, you can’t learn if no one will tell you the truth.

    So woman who has her shit together, in everyway and is mostly sweet (give us a break we get our periods, I’ll just go to my house, Mr INTJ) but is very independent and strong (yes, you are welcome to interrogate me on that statement)

    Lets say I’m legitimately sweet and Independent and I like the strength of Alphas, what’s the best way to adapt? Because I care about being happy, not about being locked in my ways.

    I should clarify, adapt in a way that won’t infringe upon my individualism or freedom to do what I want.

    Thank you for your help in advance

     

     

     

  76. again, you admitted to need woman, just not for a long period of time, but as a man still NEED a woman for sex or companionship,

    For sex only. I get all the companionship I need from my male friends. Women are for fucking, not being friends with.

    maybe you haven’t got the balls to admit it bc your ego is so grand you believe you are beyond your natural instincts. Humble yourself a bit and learn a different approach to getting what you want from women in a straightforward and honest way.

    Here come the insults, the last refuge when someone can’t win an argument. Explain to me EXACTLY how I’m not being humble and how I’m being dishonest.

    What’s the big deal, you are not entitled sex.

    Correct. And women are not entitled to commitment from an Alpha.

    hear you snore, smell your farts

    What’s your point here? Women don’t do these things?

    HONESTY with yourself first then others! No games. No categorizing yourself as a beta or alpha and not categorizing women as sluts, demanding, naive none of that. At the end of the day, we have our demands and wants.

    Again how have I been dishonest? How have I playing games? Who have I categorized a slut? Back up your sweeping generalisations with facts please.

    People only submit to others when they need something from you, money is usually what they need. A woman that has her own will not deal with that, but she will try to compromise as long as you are honest and respect her for who she is.

    Wrong. I’ve had several MLTR/FB‘s that loved to submit to me and not just sexually. They never demanded anything from me except my company. There you go claiming I’m dishonest again…

  77. Is this really true? I don’t need an Alpha to be submissive to me, I can handle myself. It’s their deep need to control me that’s been my problem,

    Yes it ‘s true. That’s good because there is no such thing as a submissive Alpha.

    I’m asking a serious question, you can’t learn if no one will tell you the truth.

    So woman who has her shit together, in everyway and is mostly sweet (give us a break we get our periods, I’ll just go to my house, Mr INTJ) but is very independent and strong (yes, you are welcome to interrogate me on that statement)

    Lets say I’m legitimately sweet and Independent and I like the strength of Alphas, what’s the best way to adapt? Because I care about being happy, not about being locked in my ways.

    I should clarify, adapt in a way that won’t infringe upon my individualism or freedom to do what I want.

    Thank you for your help in advance

    I’m not entirely sure what you’re asking here? Is it how to keep an Alpha 2.0? If so the best way I reckon is to be sweet, submissive, don’t give him drama over inane shit and accept that he will want to fuck other women from time to time. Bear in mind that being submissive does NOT mean he controls what you do/who you see and hurts or threatens you with violence. That’s an Alpha 1.0 and that’s abuse. I’m totally opposed to violence against women,

  78. @ sparks ok Mr. Alpha….i got better things to do than argue with a guy on the internet who thinks he’s an alpha. In the real world Alpha’s are out taking care of business.

  79. ok Mr. Alpha….i got better things to do than argue with a guy on the internet who thinks he’s an alpha. In the real world Alpha’s are out taking care of business.

    Run along then, since you were unable to come back with any more counterarguments. I’m able to give women good spankings in real life too, not just on here…

    And for the record I do not think I’m Alpha nor did I claim to be. I’m still on the journey from beta to Alpha but I’m getting there slowly with help from BD.

  80. “don’t give him drama over inane shit”

    Please clarify. I’m an ENTP, I need to understand some examples of what you mean by this.

    “and accept that he will want to fuck other women from time to time.” I’m 100% ok with this, I want a man to stay hot and still be attractive to all ages of women. It makes me wet for him.

    “I’m totally opposed to violence against women”
    I know you are, I’m familiar with INTJ. I’m also familiar with BDSM and its hot. What I’ve noticed is that, If you mention spanking its erotic to you, but not everyone perceives it that way.

    Thanks for replying

  81. @ sparks LMAO oh that explains it, you’re a beta. Trust me i could run circles on you but you wouldn’t comprehend. I simply don’t waste my time on men like you, they’re not enough for me.

    Like I said, log off and go on your own journey alone. First rule to being an Alpha is ‘lead do not follow’ but here you are, following BD’s instructions as the rest of the commentators on this thread. Alpha’s know who they are or they find themselves on their own, they become one through tenacity and overcoming obstacles in life in general and with women.

  82. Please clarify. I’m an ENTP, I need to understand some examples of what you mean by this.

    All temrs used here are defined in BD’s glossary (link at the top of the page).

    Drama = Any harsh negative actions directed from a woman to man where the man is the target of said negativity. Screaming, nagging, complaining, arguing, demands, crying “at you”, threats, ultimatums, the “silent treatment”, refusing sex because of non-medical reasons, all of these things are drama, and there are many others. Drama is not “anything negative”. Specifically, it must be harsh (sweetly lying would not be considered drama) and focused at the man (angrily complaining about her boss at work would not be considered drama). Drama is a female trait.

     

     

  83. @ amber

    “The vast majority of men do not want strong women, they want sweet and submissive women”

    Is this really true?

    No, it isn’t true. It’s what men THINK they want and SAY they want.  It is not what they actually chase after, become obsessed with, worship, and fall in love with.  It’s an accurate reflection of their values and what they think they want and want to want. But it’s not an accurate reflection of what they really want.

    It’s just like women who SAY they want a nice, understanding, kind, compromising, honest, sweet, monogamous, faithful guy…but then they get sick of him and bored and don’t want to have sex with him while they’re masturbating to and getting obsessed with the hot jerk.

    Men love hot bitches and women who are NOT sweet or submissive (in personality, maybe sexually). But they don’t WANT to love them because it violates their values and their pride.

    What people value and what their genitals and hearts want are not really related. Your emotions and genitals want you to mate with the highest quality person possible…a strong, fertile, smart, socially powerful, high status person who will give you a strong, fertile, smart, socially powerful, high status baby and continue your genetic legacy into the future. Yes, men as well as women want this and it’s perfectly clear from men’s actions (they will claim they don’t care and that they go for a quantity over quality strategy but that’s not actually true in most instances). Yet people’s minds and egos want a nice, kind, agreeable, easy to get along with, submissive person who will serve their interests and prop up their ego and satisfy their values regarding how life “should” be. But strong, fertile, smart, socially powerful, high status people are rarely submissive, meek, and agreeable, because they don’t have to be. Nevertheless I have never met a single man or woman in that category who wants for sexual and romantic opportunities.

    Don’t pay too much attention to what people say, look at what they do. What they say usually reflects what they want to be true, not what’s actually true.  Men have plenty of opportunities to have a meek, sweet girlfriend, but they overlook her because she isn’t as hot/high status and they’re too busy chasing the hot bitchy cheerleader. That’s why their so furious at those women when they’re rejected, and reveling in their revenge fantasies that she’ll eventually get hers later in life. People low in SMV make up for it by being compromising and meek and offering agreeableness as a trade, and that goes for both men and women. And both genders are mad at the others because the highest SMV people of the opposite sex are the least willing to compromise to be in a relationship. Both genders totally ignore the half of the opposite sex that is in the lower 50% of the SMV…though men will sometimes throw a fuck their way if desperate and women will sometimes hold their nose and marry one for the money and hope he travels a lot on business.

    @ BD  Another explanation for this phenomenon is simply that people who are still single into their 30s are simply less interested relationships or willing to compromise for the sake of one. I think I’ve seen a chart on this somewhere, and if you look at the pool of single people in their 20s versus 40s, the younger pool has a much higher likelihood of having an “agreeable” (read submissive and easy to get along with) personality, which is an inborne genetic trait that doesn’t change much over one’s lifetime. Agreeable people self-select into relationships, while non-agreeable people would prefer to be single than compromise, so the agreeable people have self-selected out of the single pool. Thus the pool of older singles consists naturally of people who are more difficult to please. I’ve found this to be the case.

    @ eddie  You have a HUGE madonna/whore complex. You  clearly associated sex with “low moral character”, i.e. sex is dirty in your mind. LG is right that you are exactly the type that a woman will hide her sexual history from and hold out on *if* she wanted a relationship with you. You’ve already made it perfectly clear that it’s a precondition for a relationship. You’ve proved LG’s point that guys reward girls who play hard to get. I’ve seen it myself, and Alpha 1.0 types are VERY prone to rewarding girls who hold out.  They believe that the difficulty of attaining something is a direct measure of its value. BD doesn’t think that way, he prefers a cost-benefit analysis which is an entirely different view of value.

    @ S cool me   I’m going to have to disagree with your assertion that “all” people desire to live with someone, cohabit, and reproduce, and that to want otherwise is to be in denial or not human. As an INTP myself, I don’t desire those things and it isn’t denial, it’s just how I’m built. I get pressured by others into living with people and then I’m less happy. INTJs and INTPs are uncommon personality types (thought not on the internet), but we do exist and we truly don’t need this type of constant, intimate human interaction. It isn’t fair to write us off as aliens or in denial just because we don’t value or enjoy the same things.  I would literally rather die than live in a house with a family full of kids…I would go insane from the noise and emotional demands after the first week, yet I know many/most people would be sad and lonely to live in a house as quiet and peaceful as mine.

  84. I’m a student of BD, too. I’ve read all his books.

    I asked for your examples, but thank you for reminding me of that definition.

    have a nice day

  85. LMAO oh that explains it, you’re a beta.

    No I was a beta but I’m slowly killing that part of me.

    Trust me i could run circles on you but you wouldn’t comprehend. I simply don’t waste my time on men like you, they’re not enough for me.

    Oh right so you could rip me to shreds but that would be a waste of time. How convenient. I’m glad I’m not enough for you, at 33 you’ve crept into the ‘too old for me’ range anyway.

    Like I said, log off and go on your own journey alone. First rule to being an Alpha is ‘lead do not follow’ but here you are, following BD’s instructions as the rest of the commentators on this thread. Alpha’s know who they are or they find themselves on their own

    BD’s advice (not instructions – they are optional) over the last 2 years has literally turned my sex life around. Why would I log off and go on my own journey when I was getting nowhere with women before? I will ignore your advice on what makes an Alpha male, thanks all the same. It would be as much use as the advice I got over the years from female relatives on how to attract women, i.e. completely useless.

  86. @Kryptokate

    Thank you for your thoughts. I have to say you come across as a very sharp and emotionally evolved lady. It’s nice to run into you, sometimes I feel alone in the way I think. At least by the standards, currently expected by society today.

  87. @kryptokate thanks for your response.

    You have a point. I’ve done it myself for so long but in the long run i’m pretty sure i will desire to find someone I’m compatible with and maybe have kids if we both want or i’ll weigh my options then. I’m not the type to care about biological clock, if it will happen it will. My motto has always been ‘if it doesn’t fit, don’t force it”. It’s why i’ve been single by choice for three years now. I could’ve settled with my ex. Once I wanted out he offered the unimaginable to keep me and he wanted kids or maybe it was his attempt to keep me but i knew where that would leave me…i’d be the one taking care of kids and responsible for them while all he had to do was provide financially but I value my freedom more than anything unless I do get what i want in a guy (honor, respect, loyalty and none of this submissive bs) otherwise i rather be alone. But, again, in the long run i really doubt anyone wants to end up alone.

  88. @ amber  haha I was just thinking the same thing. Wish I had an ENTP female friend because NTP females are so very rare, and I love E types because they get me out of my shell when I go too far with my hermit-like tendencies. 🙂

  89. @ sparks

    Don’t you think there’s a huge difference between sexual submission and having a submissive personality/being submissive generally? From what I hear from men and observe from my female friends, it’s the most dominant/non-submissive females who get the most turned on from sexual submission, probably  because it’s a major taboo and gets their adrenaline and excitement up to transgress that taboo. It seems that high powered men are usually the ones who pay for dominatrixes. I would say “IRL” and sexual dominance/submission are probably not correlated, or if they are, they might even be inversely correlated.

  90. Don’t you think there’s a huge difference between sexual submission and having a submissive personality/being submissive generally?

    Not always, you can find a submissive personality and sexual submission in the same person. I know I have.

    From what I hear from men and observe from my female friends, it’s the most dominant/non-submissive females who get the most turned on from sexual submission, probably  because it’s a major taboo and gets their adrenaline and excitement up to transgress that taboo.

    I agree with this. Apparently women who are lawyers/CEO’s love it because it’s the opposite of what they get at work. It ties in with what I said earlier, a lot of men are dealing with high-T women at work and many prefer to come home to someone submissive.

    It seems that high powered men are usually the ones who pay for dominatrixes. I would say “IRL” and sexual dominance/submission are probably not correlated, or if they are, they might even be inversely correlated.

    Possibly true as well, plenty of anecdotal evidence. Here in the UK in the past we’ve seen wealthy doctors, bishops and MP’s (our equivalent of senators) caught with dominatrixes and splashed all over the press.

  91. I asked for your examples, but thank you for reminding me of that definition.

    This is getting very O/T but BD’s definition pretty much covers ‘drama’ but what I mean by ‘over inane shit’ is drama due to something that isn’t harmful/threatening to anyone and is basically unimportant. Specific examples are too numerous to mention but to give you an idea:

    complaining that a man leaves the toilet seat up
    complaining that your partner looked at another woman (I know guys whose wives/GF’s have banned them from looking at porn/nude scenes on TV. I wish I was kidding)
    complaining that the neighbours have a nicer house/car/garden/lifestyle etc

    Men hate this kind of shit, especially Alpha 2.0’s who instead of listening to it will just next you for someone else. Married men hate it too but they can’t do much about it.

  92. Actually, you know what I notice about the “older” pool of singles? The middle hollows out. What you have left by mid-30s and 40s are (1) the unfortunate people that have a very tough time with the opposite sex, but also (2) some of the most desirable people that EVERYONE seems to want, but who have too many options and no real reason to settle down (especially if they’re divorced and already been there, done that). But there’s not many people left in the middle.

    The 30s-40s crowd I know has a lot of men and women who are divorced and who have enough money and sexual opportunities that there’s really no motivation for them to settle down again. Doing so would only bring them down, they already have maximum freedom in their leisure time, spending ability, and romantic/sexual partners.  The divorced mid-30s and up people seem to have a much higher proportion of very good-looking and high-earning people, as compared to their still-married cohorts.  But there is also an ever bigger section of single people who are overweight, undesirable for various reasons, and generally unfortunate. While most of the “average” people stay married.   So if one is targeting the “in demand” 30s-40s crowd, we should expect them to be more demanding because their opportunity costs to be in a relationship are so much higher.

    It seems similar to money…in a totally free market, gains increasingly accrue to the winners, and the gap widens between the haves and the have-nots. You only get a “middle class” if there’s some measure of socialism (i.e. monogamy and 1 woman for each man in a sexual system, or wealth redistribution in an economic system).

  93. @ Eddie

    I think you should seriously reconsider your values. Not only does it seem utterly ridiculous but the fact that you seem to consider your categorization of women as common knowledge suggest you need some perspective. Possibly spending less time on strange web sites. Think about it. Do you really think less of women who want to have sex with you?  Are you disappointed if you start having sex with a woman  because you hoped she was of a higher category. Does that really make sense to you? I admire women who want sex with me. Especially their excellent taste in men.

     

    @ S-cool

    Your idea that all real men want to “provide and commit” unless they have suffered earlier terrible experiences is quite judgemental of men. Not far of Eddie-territory, actually. We live in a liberated world. And that includes men. You dont seem to grant that for men. Its the kind of crap peddled by many women. And lots of men buy into it too easily. I think its mens biggest problem. All the mens right nonsense can be thrown out the window the second men realised this.

    Men are free too. Free to enjoy women as much as we like with no duty to provide anything. Men shouldnt judge women but women cant make these demands of men either. Sex is super-easily available everywhere and men can make the most of it.

     

    @Amber

    I think men will choose the sweet girl nine times out of ten if youre thinking of serious relationships. Not the submissive one, the sweet one. Submissive is going too far unless we are talking mainly on a behavioural level.  Sweet is always good and not in opposition to be strong or anything like that. Submissive may be good for some but with a risk of being boring.

    Kryptokate seems to focus more on attraction. Sure, an aggressive bitch type of women can be a big turn-on but not in the long run, not for the vast majority in anything remotely normal relationship

     

  94. @KryptoKate

    OMG! don’t want to turn this into a total estrogenfest because this is the boys club and we are their guests. But so many of the things you say, it’s like you reached inside my head and pulled them out. What’s the best way to keep in touch with you off site?

    I agree NTP is so hard to find in females. 🙂

  95. @ ThomasNordic

    “Sure, an aggressive bitch type of women can be a big turn-on but not in the long run, not for the vast majority in anything remotely normal relationship”

    Yes, I’ve found this to be very true. Thank you for your thoughts

  96. @ BD  Another explanation for this phenomenon is simply that people who are still single into their 30s are simply less interested relationships or willing to compromise for the sake of one.

    No, the problem isn’t women over 33 who’ve never had a relationship or marriage. The issue I’ve described applies to women over age 33 all across the board. It includes women who’ve never had a relationship, or who’ve never been married, or who have been married and divorced, or who’ve had long-term boyfriends, or who’ve had kids, or who’ve never had kids. There’s no “pattern” other than the one correlating factor: age 33 or higher.

  97. @ Sparks

    “complaining that a man leaves the toilet seat up
    complaining that your partner looked at another woman (I know guys whose wives/GF’s have banned them from looking at porn/nude scenes on TV. I wish I was kidding)
    complaining that the neighbours have a nicer house/car/garden/lifestyle etc”

    Thank you for your thoughts.

    yes, I agree, anytime you try to control someone else’s behaviors that isn’t conducive to health or happiness, for anyone.

  98. To address a point Lovergirl made, it’s very true that many men will treat women better if the women are good at firing up men’s Madonna / whore buttons and refuse to have sex with the men quickly.

    The problems with this approach are these:

    1. This will only work with either submissive beta males or the few Alpha 1.0s who are well over 30 themselves and currently in provider-hunting mode (men can be provider-hunters too). It will never, ever work with a truly non-needy guy.

    2. This technique virtually never creates a fun, low-drama, long-lasting relationship of two equals. All it does it create a temporary master/slave relationship (with the woman as the master and the beta as the submissive) making her bored off her ass, or a temporary high-drama cheating relationship with a provider-hunting Alpha 1.0 lying to her and promising monogamy and cheating with women on the side, and getting caught, and causing all kinds of drama and bullshit for both man and woman. The same exact relationship drama and bullshit women over 33 constantly complain about.

    Regardless, I have said before that if a jaded over-33 woman’s goal is to screen for a complaint man dripping with neediness and Madonna/whore, who she can marry or girlfriend-up and them divorce / dump later when she gets bored, then being a frigid bitch and refusing sex for several dinner dates is a “valid” thing to do. It won’t make her happy, but it will help her accomplish her misguided goals.

  99. @BD

    “Regardless, I have said before that if a jaded over-33 woman’s goal is to screen for a complaint man dripping with neediness and Madonna/whore, who she can marry or girlfriend-up and them divorce / dump later when she gets bored, then being a frigid bitch and refusing sex for several dinner dates is a “valid” thing to do. It won’t make her happy, but it will help her accomplish her misguided goals.”

    Yep, short term gains for longer term misery. This is true for most people. If someone isn’t happy with how their life is, it’s time to look in the mirror.

  100. This will only work with either submissive beta males or the few Alpha 1.0s who are well over 30 themselves and currently in provider-hunting mode (men can be provider-hunters too). It will never, ever work with a truly non-needy guy.

    You are way underestimating the amount of “Alpha 1.0’s” that this will work on.  It’s not just the guys over 30 either, or just needy types.  It’s men in general.  There might be a few out there that DON’T have madonna/whore and don’t fall for the bullshit, but they are very few and far between. 

    So, before you gripe at women for having rules or making guys wait for sex, realize that most women would not give a fuck if it didn’t change the way men behaved towards them. Almost any woman you come in contact with, especially if she’s already in her 30’s or beyond, has already encountered a zillion men with this attitude. Think about that…

  101. I am an ENFP, we are extra awesome, in all respects 😉  People generally love me, outside of the internet, haha. They do! I promise!! 🙂

    On the whole being submissive thing, believe it or not, once I’m in a relationship with a guy I am pretty submissive, both in and out of the bedroom.  In my experience, men LIKE that, but you have to be extra careful screening so that you don’t end up with the kind of men who take advantage of that.  If I just accepted any man who came down the pipe and wanted to dominate me I could very quickly and easily fall into an abusive relationship, so someone like me has extra reason to be wary.  I also have to go out of my way to make sure I don’t tolerate disrespect.

  102. @ Thomas Nordic

    Are you disappointed if you start having sex with a woman  because you hoped she was of a higher category. Does that really make sense to you? I admire women who want sex with me. Especially their excellent taste in men.

    Lol! Eddie doesn’t want to be a member of any club that will admit him. 😉

     

    @ BD   Well I didn’t raise my standards and become overly-picky until I was thirty-four. So there. 🙂  Though in my case I didn’t raise my standards on providing and taking me out, I raised them on guys being good in bed, aggressive, and not afraid of me or instantly prone to acting like betas. I guess I did it backwards because when I was younger I went for much less dominant men. Probably due to my massively nerd-type tendencies. The men I like now would have terrified me when I was 20. You might add that to your list of exceptions…women who are more introverted/nerdy tend not to follow the normal path of going for alphas when younger. Though they might move into that later on, since nerdy girls tend to be later bloomers in general and are on a slower road to maturation and success than the typical popular girl.

     

    @ Amber  I think you can email me from the girls-with-game site. Or BD can probably put you in touch. 🙂

     

    I also agree that people aren’t generally looking for long-term relationships with the hot/aggressive/bitch-asshole, I’m just saying people do lust after them and get obsessed with them and chase and degrade themselves for them. For a long-term relationship, most people want a strong person because LTRs are usually a partnership with kids, finances, a home, etc. And who wants a weak person as a partner — if they’re weak, they might lose or ruin all the assets of the partnership.  I think most guys who read the manosphere are recovering betas so they might tend to swing too far in the opposite direction and think they want a submissive woman because they’re afraid of becoming re-betaized. But it’s an optimum balance that’s ideal…aggressive and demanding people are exhausting and annoying, while submissive and meek people get very boring.

    I don’t want kids, but if one wants to have kids, they should seek a partner who has the traits they want their child to have. I’m pretty sure most men don’t want a meek, submissive son, so mating with a meek, submissive woman would be pretty dumb-assed, especially since boys are more likely to resemble their mothers than their fathers, because the X chromosome codes for more cognitive genes and boys only get a Y from their dad.

  103. Oh Eddie, Eddie, Eddie….sigh. Where do we begin? Alright, we’ll take it one by one:

    If he wasn’t so beta and had better standards…”Never date a single mother”he never would be dealing with all the drama from the baby’s father

    Okay, this I agree with. No self respecting alpha male will ever raise another man’s kids. This is correct. The only exception I have ever discovered is BD who has raised another man’s son and he sincerely doesn’t seem to mind. In general, however, you’re pretty much a beta if you raise someone else’s children (exceptions like BD notwithstanding).

     or have his teammates laughing behind his back about how much of a sucker he is for becoming engaged to a slut.

    Correction: How much of a sucker he is for being engaged to a single mother. Or just being engaged period.

    Read the story…she’s had sex with many men, and it’s all public knowledge… but with him..she makes him wait…

    Once again, I agree. Her suddenly turning into a sexually squeamish prude/Jesus freak just to trap a rich beta boy by sparking up his M/W is a deceitful and despicable piece of bullshit on her part. Then again, his M/W is itself pathetic.

    she should’ve at best, been a side piece..never the main chick…

    Unless a serious relationship could be maintained with him having virtually zero contact with the kids, but I agree that that’s probably not possible, so I’ll agree again that she is only fuck buddy or friends with benefits material. The thought of raising another man’s babies gives me chills.

    She’s damaged/ used goods

    Whoa! Hold on there! If you mean in the sense that she has kids by another man and no alpha would want to raise them, then I agree. But “damaged/used goods” also seems to have a connotation of slut shaming that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Hopefully that’s not what you meant.

    Don’t get it twisted..I love all women, especially sluts…

    Okay, good. Whew, I was worried there.

    I think all women are good for dating (including sluts) but not all women are good for relationships.

    Okay, fair enough. Some women are crazy and have destructive tendencies that disqualify them from relationships. I’m with you so far.

    Once you show me, you have no moral character,

    Define “no moral character.” Do you mean, expecting other men to raise your kids? If so, then I guess I agree that is a sign of no moral character. But you seem to have expanded that definition somewhat, or is that just my imagination?

    why would I want to invest and build something with you…by your own bahavior and actions, you have proven yourself unworthy. In fact, your only value is sex.

    If “by your own behavior and actions you have proven yourself unworthy” you mean expecting other men to raise her kids, then I agree, but you seem now to be expanding the definition of “unworthy” not just to single mothers but also to all sexually enlightened women. In that case, I disagree.

    Haven’t you heard, The Player’s Code..”You NEVER turn a HO into a housewife.”

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, you lost me!

    First of all, who wants a housewife? Only brainwashed traditional conservatives who are still addicted to the Disney fantasy! That “player code” above comes from black players who are hopelessly infected with Madonna/whore.

    There is nothing wrong with getting into serious relationships (open, of course) with sexually enlightened women, as long as you’re not raising another man’s kids! In fact, those are precisely the only women worthy of relationships in my book. Who wants a frigid prude as a serious girlfriend. Not me.

    So to be clear…I’m cool with you being a HO…I just will NEVER TRUST a HO. And if I can’t trust you, we can’t have a relationship… but FB is OK….

    Stop! Stop! Stop! Wait, wait, hold on! Trust her for what? Disney monogamy? I hope you’re joking! Since when do we want monogamy here? I’m currently in a serious relationship with a girl you would describe as a “ho” or a “slut.” I trust her completely. Does she have sex with other men? Of course! Just like I have sex with other women! What’s wrong with that?

    Again, my question: What subject do you distrust her on?  

    Russell should have enough GAME, to let a HO be a HO… and treat her according to WHO she is, nothing more, nothing less.

    In other words, it’s not just about refusing to raise another man’s kids. It’s about claiming that sexually liberated women aren’t good for love or serious relationships because women who love sex have “low moral character?”

    Dude, this is slut shaming and it’s disgusting! The only reason a man wouldn’t want a sexually enlightened woman as a serious girlfriend is because he expects monogamy or sexual exclusivity from her! But what kind of a Disney tradcon wants monogamy? I hope it’s not you!

    If you’re in an open relationship (which is the only kind you should be in), not only do you stop caring about her being a so called “ho” or “slut,” but you actually prefer that! Being in a poly arrangement with a Disney prude would be hell. She doesn’t even like threesomes!

    So called “sluts” are good for casual sex, dating, AND serious (but open) relationships. “Housewives” are good for nothing, except Disney monogamy, which is only for betas and territorial/insecure alpha 1.0s.

    All women are not created equal… some are only good for dating, while others are good for realationships.

    True. There are destructive women out there who are good only for casual sex because they are too high drama for relationships. But, those that are good for relationships, are good for casual sex too. Why not?

    You have your HOs and that’s all they’re good for…Ho-ing

    This is slut shaming garbage! I’m sorry, but you are obviously against female sexual liberation if you think you can’t get into a serious open relationship with a woman who loves sex! Why not? What are you afraid she’ll lie to you about? Sex with other men? But she should be allowed to do that? Worried that the baby is not yours? Paternity test, aisle seven!

    If she’s good for casual sex, she’s good for serious relationships too, unless she’s disqualified from serious relationships for reasons that have nothing to do with her loving sex.

    By contrast, if she’s not good for casual sex because she’s a Disney prude, then she’s good for nothing. How would an open serious relationship work with a prude anyway? Like I said, she won’t even do threesomes, to say nothing about going to swingers parties with me!

    and then you have your Sweethearts.

    Oh. My. God!

    Eddie, say it ain’t so. Say you were just drunk! You mean, good for nothing Disney prudes?

    In America, the HOs far out number the Sweethearts…

    Thank god. Otherwise, there would be too many women that are good for nothing, unless you’re a beta who wants Disney monogamy!

    Although, all girls are manipulative by nature..HOs are different. HOs are Hustlers….

    You mean liars? So you’re worried that a sexually liberated woman will lie to you? About what? Again, she should be allowed to sleep with other men, so it’s not cheating you’re worried about. So what’s the problem?

    and Russell Wilson is getting hustled by a HO, with a baby in tow.

    Okay, I agree here. Any woman who refuses to have sex before marriage because she wants a beta boy provider while having a history of sleeping with alphas is a manipulative and hypocritical bitch! But if you’re not a beta, that shit won’t work on you. She’s a gold digger, and I have genuine hate for gold diggers. But you’re linking that with sexual liberation, which is wrong.

    I still don’t understand why you think women who love sex are bad for serious open relationships. As long as you’re not raising another man’s kids, what are you worried that she’ll lie to you about?

    I know you get this (and if you don’t, it just proves you just want to argue for the sake of arguing or you’re attention-whoring tonight)…

    Well I don’t get it either. And I’m not a female attention whore, or even a female.

    it’s not just about the sex…sex is easy to get…it’s the character that counts and HOs have no character.

    As long as you don’t combine bad character with sexual promiscuity. Sexual promiscuity is a good thing and we need to encourage more of it. But if you are condemning gold digging, pretending to be a virgin angel so a beta loser will marry you, or trying to get other men to raise your kids, then I agree that that counts as low moral character. But you have no business equating low moral character with a love of sex and men, which is what you’re doing when you say “hos” have no character. Why?

    Therefore, you don’t violate code…(you don’t turn a HO into a housewife).

    Here’s my code: Don’t turn anyone into a housewife, or into a wife, or into a monogamous girlfriend. Then you don’t have to distrust the “sluts.”

    Housewives, or any wives, are for betas and men brainwashed with Disney. Never get married. Never get monogamous. If you want kids, or a serious relationship, make it a poly/open arrangement. And only “hos” are good for that. “Sweethearts” are good for nothing, because their low sex drive prudes and we don’t want Disney monogamy, now do we?

     

  104. But she should be allowed to do that?

    I meant to say, “But she should be allowed to do that.” without the question mark.

  105. @ Jack Outside the Box

    “No self respecting alpha male will ever raise another man’s kids. This is correct. The only exception I have ever discovered is BD who has raised another man’s son and he sincerely doesn’t seem to mind”

    It’s my opinion, with our single mother epidemic and the lack of true Alpha role models, BD should be the rule and not the exception.

    I like a lot of your other thinking, in your response to Eddie. I just know that as a woman raised by a single father, it’s my opinion that not being willing to provide mentorship, to children who are innocent victims of their mother’s bad choices, well that’s a non Alpha move, in my opinion.

    If you’d like to explain your thinking behind your beliefs, I’d love to know. 🙂

  106. Hey, there seems to be a massive misunderstanding of what constitutes an alpha 2.0 personality.

    It’s just someone who minimizes his dependencies, that’s all. A truly independent man has control over everything influencing his life and is able not to care about everything else.

    First rule to being an Alpha is ‘lead do not follow’ but here you are, following BD’s instructions as the rest of the commentators on this thread. Alpha’s know who they are or they find themselves on their own, they become one through tenacity and overcoming obstacles in life in general and with women.

    No, a rational man values his time and learns from others’ mistakes before he has to venture into the unknown and learn from his own. Learning facts of mechanics from Newton and facts of applied female psychology from Jones does not make one live a life of dependency.

    No self respecting alpha male will ever raise another man’s kids.

    No, a rational man knows what he wants to achieve by raising kids, and most likely biological relations do not affect his goals at all. Raising another man’s child does make one live a life of more dependency and less control, but to the same extent as if the child were biologically his (or even less because the child’s health is no longer a random factor).

  107. @ amber  I think it would depend on if the man in question enjoyed children and spending time with them or not. Some men really enjoy that, my stepdad is like that, he loves kids, loves coaching little league, totally treated me and his bio-kids the same, loves all his bio and non-bio grandchildren. On the other hand, my bio dad really does not like children at all and it’s amazing he ever had them. He was good in raising me, but there is just no way in hell he would EVER have gotten involved with another man’s kids, he could barely stand his own, lol. He won’t even eat at a restaurant if there are kids in it.

    I think Jack in Box is saying he would never want to invest in children that weren’t his. The assumption here is that kids are a resource drain and an unpleasant sacrifice. But other guys who enjoy children and get personal value out of teaching and raising kids probably wouldn’t feel that way.

    Ironically, most of my friends are single mothers, and while they love their own kids, most of them don’t want to date a man who has kids (or too many kids). They like their own but don’t want to deal with someone else’s kids, they realize the sacrifice involved and I guess it’s too much for them.

    I’m guessing that people who love kids so much that they don’t mind dating someone who has several are rather rare and thus greatly valued. Where I live there are lots of single parents of multiple children and they are all looking for that type of person.

    @ LG  My very best friend is an ENFP (with 5 kids) and she is a delightful human being who always has a smile and is universally loved by everyone but prone to being taken advantage of because she’s so positive and sweet. So I believe you, ENFPs may not be as common on the internet but they always light up a room. 🙂

  108. @ Lovergirl

    “I’m an ENFP”

    I only have a hard time following you when you get all feely… If I could retype myself, I’d be your type.

    “On the whole being submissive thing, believe it or not, once I’m in a relationship with a guy I am pretty submissive, both in and out of the bedroom. In my experience, men LIKE that, but you have to be extra careful screening so that you don’t end up with the kind of men who take advantage of that. ”

    Only certain men will understand that and the rest of them will just hard next us. I don’t screen that much, I’m just adamant about condoms and I’ve lost men over it. Alphas are more likely to get a woman to succumb to no condom use (let’s face it, most of us hate them, sorry that’s my opinion.)

    It’s very easy to get me to be easygoing and submissive, just make me comfortable with your character, logic and reasoning skills.

  109. @KryptoKate and Anon

    My issue isn’t whether men should or should not raise children. I’ve never had them. I had a unfit mother and was influenced by a very alpha 1.0 father.
    My issue is ANY blanket statement that starts out with “no self respecting man would… ”
    Why? Why isn’t a man who raises another man’s child? Why isn’t he self respecting? That’s what doesn’t make sense to me.

  110. On the whole being submissive thing, believe it or not, once I’m in a relationship with a guy I am pretty submissive, both in and out of the bedroom.  In my experience, men LIKE that, but you have to be extra careful screening so that you don’t end up with the kind of men who take advantage of that.  If I just accepted any man who came down the pipe and wanted to dominate me I could very quickly and easily fall into an abusive relationship, so someone like me has extra reason to be wary.  I also have to go out of my way to make sure I don’t tolerate disrespect.

    @Lovegirl, thank you for being honest. That makes a lot of sense.

     

    Funny, when I am in a relationship with a submissive woman I’m super into taking care of her. I enjoy sleeping with non-submissive women but they are almost automatically friends with benefits. I just don’t feel much passion towards them.

  111. Raising another man’s kids really doesn’t fall into the category of “alpha” or “beta”.  Its just something some men can handle and others can’t.  There are some really good men out there that CHOSE to raise a fatherless child and I have nothing but respect for that and the type of guy who would devote his time and effort to raising a child who needs a father figure.

    I know a few guys like this and they treat a child who isn’t theirs biologically like their own.  None of the ones I am speaking of are “beta” or lacking in the women department.  Some are even divorced and still refer to that child or children as theirs.  I don’t know how anyone could see that as wimpy.  It takes a strong man to be a good dad to his own kids, let alone someone else’s.

    On the other hand, there are men that take on that role that shouldn’t, because they are interested in the woman and don’t really give a fuck about the kids.  Many times those are the guys who turn abusive, like my own stepfathers.  Men should definitely be aware of their limits and not try to do something they are uncomfortable with, but it doesn’t make you “beta”.

  112. @ LG  My very best friend is an ENFP (with 5 kids) and she is a delightful human being who always has a smile and is universally loved by everyone but prone to being taken advantage of because she’s so positive and sweet. So I believe you, ENFPs may not be as common on the internet but they always light up a room.

    Oh wow, she has the same number of kids I do…. 😉  People sometimes say they can’t imagine me ever raising my voice or being a bitch to someone.  I’m like well…..don’t push me.  🙂  Haha

    When I first got hired at my current job, the boss’ only concern was that I might not be “aggressive” enough and a girl there told me I was “too nice” and that I would never make any sales that way.  Showed them both though because within 2 months I was the top salesperson and I’m still holding strong.  You catch more flies with honey and all that. 🙂

    Only certain men will understand that and the rest of them will just hard next us. I don’t screen that much, I’m just adamant about condoms and I’ve lost men over it. Alphas are more likely to get a woman to succumb to no condom use (let’s face it, most of us hate them, sorry that’s my opinion.)

    Yeah, I’m not a big condom fan.  The only time I insist is usually with new men that I’m not comfortable with.  I know all the risks and I still never push it with guys I really like.

    Funny, when I am in a relationship with a submissive woman I’m super into taking care of her. I enjoy sleeping with non-submissive women but they are almost automatically friends with benefits. I just don’t feel much passion towards them.

    See, and I LIKE it when men “take care” of me or spoil me and spend money on me.  I love it, but not so much when its coming from a needy or desperate place.  There is a big difference.  Men who know how to give to a woman without supplicating are great.  I think that takes a certain level of skill and a lot of men on here are just starting out on their journey so they go to the extreme of saying “never” treat a woman.

     

     

  113. See, and I LIKE it when men “take care” of me or spoil me and spend money on me.

    I did not mean financially take care of. In fact I would be very surprised if many men actually enjoy financially taking care of a woman, especially if that woman isn’t the mother of their children.

  114. I think Jack in Box is saying

    I am outside the box, which implies a radically different way of thinking. Please get it right.

    he would never want to invest in children that weren’t his. The assumption here is that kids are a resource drain and an unpleasant sacrifice. But other guys who enjoy children and get personal value out of teaching and raising kids probably wouldn’t feel that way.

    This is so wrong. You are making the same stupid mistake that liberals make when they attack conservatives for being anti-criminal immigration by saying something retarded like “we’re all immigrants,” thus failing to make a distinction between legal and illegal. Incidentally, this is why we need two immigration agencies (one welcoming legals and another one kicking out illegals) so that liberals will stop lumping the two groups of immigrants together.

    You are failing to make a distinction between my bio children and non-bio children when you falsely accuse me of hating children just because I hate the illegitimate ones who would invade my home! You’re saying that I believe that children (without qualifying whether they’re my bio ones or not) are an unpleasant sacrifice and that people who actually love children (without qualifying whether they’re bio or not) wouldn’t feel my way! You need to stop lumping the two together.

    My negative attitude towards non-biological children tells you exactly nothing about my attitude towards children. NOTHING!

    I very much want to have biological children someday. I’ve had this fervent wish for a long, long time. I’m hoping I’ll have them with my current OLTR. Nothing would make me happier than kids of my own. It would be a dream come true!

    But I’m certainly not going to allow genetic strangers to usurp my legacy via another man’s seed. That would be stupid and beta! I’m not a janitor who cleans up other men’s messes. I’ll leave that to the betas and omegas!

  115. It’s my opinion, with our single mother epidemic and the lack of true Alpha role models, BD should be the rule and not the exception.

    I like a lot of your other thinking, in your response to Eddie. I just know that as a woman raised by a single father, it’s my opinion that not being willing to provide mentorship, to children who are innocent victims of their mother’s bad choices, well that’s a non Alpha move, in my opinion.

    If you’d like to explain your thinking behind your beliefs, I’d love to know.

    I have no objection to mentorship. Yes, boys (especially boys raised by single mothers) desperately need alpha male role models. I have nothing against mentoring children that aren’t yours. There are a lot of mentorship programs (especially through schools) that you can apply for that will allow you to mentor a child who comes from a broken home. I fully support that.

    But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about actually raising another man’s kids, taking care of them, financially supporting them, changing their diapers, taking them to the hospital, picking them up from football practice, providing a roof over their heads, and being an actual father to them! That I’m disgusted by (no offense to BD).

    not being willing to provide mentorship, to children who are innocent victims of their mother’s bad choices, well that’s a non Alpha move, in my opinion.

    It is not my job to take responsibility for the actions or creations of another adult. Cleaning up the mess of another adult, like some kind of socialist, now THAT would be a non-alpha move! Those children are the responsibility of the bio dad. If he’s not in the picture, it is certainly NOT alpha, but very beta, for me to accept the consequences of HIS actions. Again, no offense to BD, but taking responsibility on behalf of other men, or other adults, is a loser move, in my humble opinion. A true alpha takes responsibility for his own actions only, not the actions of other men, or women. If those children fail, the responsibility is solely on the bio parents, not an alpha male who refused to clean up the mess that another man made (that’s just insulting).

    Those “poor, innocent children ™” are not my responsibility, and taking responsibility for another man’s creation, and therefore, giving him a free socialist ride, is what betas do, not alphas (BD and a few others excepted).

    The “sacrifice,” the “workload,” and the “financial expense” are not the issue here. Let me be clear:

    I would gladly take care of six biological children of mine WHO ALL HAVE DOWN SYNDROME than even one non-biological child who is already a teenager and perfectly healthy!

    It’s not the money, the workload, or the “sacrifice” that is the issue here. The issue is one of principle – I’m not a socialist who shields other adults from the consequences of their own choices. And I won’t be a cuckold when it comes to another man’s seed or the purveyor of another man’s genetic legacy. That is insulting and sick!

     

     

  116. LG my point is you made the mistake once and you THINK you have learned from it. You haven’t you are back to your old ways looking for a beta provider. The only difference is now you do not feel guilty when you embrace your feminine side looking for the alpha and accepting sex quickly.

    So you “make” the beta providers or the alpha needy guy take you out for dinners to prove to you they are worthy of having sex with you, then you built a a relationship that doesn’t work and you cheat or get bored of it. Then you blame the guys for being low sex driven or being boring(as betas) for this situation. You created all this situation because you could simply ditch the beta guy in the 1st/2nd date when he exhibited beta behavior. But your need of validation, attention and provider need kicks in that creates all this mess. Not his low sex drive or any other excuse. You stayed with a guy for 15 years that bored you to death and you think this is better from people who break up at 1 year? Yeah you had kids with him hooray hallelujah and the kids pay the price of this naivety.

    Also your perception of Alphas is wrong. You overestimate people thinking they are alphas. Alpha does not mean CEO, Alpha does not mean muscular guy or boxing trainer. An alpha does not accept shit from a woman at least when dating phase passed and he became comfortable. He can be gentleman but when you try to boss him around or scold him he will take it personally and “attack” you and he will be the one bossing you around.

  117. Raising another man’s kids really doesn’t fall into the category of “alpha” or “beta”.  Its just something some men can handle and others can’t.

    Ha ha! Nice try trying to make men like me out to be weak! Yeah, that’s right, we just can’t handle it! It’s too much. Boohoo! Pathetic!

    I will repeat myself:

    I would gladly take care of six biological children of mine WHO ALL HAVE DOWN SYNDROME than even one non-biological child who is already a teenager and perfectly healthy!

  118. No, a rational man knows what he wants to achieve by raising kids, and most likely biological relations do not affect his goals at all.

    Biological relations certainly do affect my goals. I want a genetic legacy, not to clean up after, or prop up, another man’s genetic legacy, thus providing a form of welfare to the biological father! I’m sickened by that very concept because it’s a form of cuckolding!

    Here are two more examples of beta cuckholding:

    1. The beta male open relationship: This is what that slut shamer Heartiste keeps whining about in reference to polyamory. It goes like this: A woman is in an open relationship with a beta male whom she is not attracted to. She’s just with him for the money and barely tolerates having sex with him once a month. But he thinks he’s the luckiest guy in the world. She wants to cheat on him with men she’s actually attracted to, but doesn’t want to go through the headache of lying and hiding. So she just orders him to be in an open relationship with her so she can get her sexual needs satisfied by alphas while he foots the bill for her lifestyle in exchange for lame sex once a month. He is a cuckold!

    Incidentally, guys like Heartiste can’t even comprehend the existence of alpha open relationships and thinks that all poly arrangements are ones where the man is a beta and the woman is a gold digger.

    2. The man who enjoys watching his girlfriend/wife fuck other men while he refuses to participate or fuck other women: This is the extreme beta male or even omega male who simply masturbates while his girlfriend/wife gets pounded by another dude. He refuses to join in and never fucks other women because he thinks that would be disrespectful. Other times, he facilitates his girl’s sex life with other men while he just masturbates and never gets any sex, not even from his girlfriend/wife, because actual sex doesn’t turn him on.

    3. A man who raises another man’s child while the bio dad lives a fun carefree life. Um…….no.

    Raising another man’s child does make one live a life of more dependency and less control, but to the same extent as if the child were biologically his (or even less because the child’s health is no longer a random factor).

    I would gladly take care of six biological children of mine WHO ALL HAVE DOWN SYNDROME than even one non-biological child who is already a teenager and perfectly healthy!

  119.  I’ve really embraced my slutty side the last 14 months.

    Good!

    Prior to that, after going to Catholic school, I spent a lot of time ashamed of my natural, womanly body

    Sorry to hear that.

    It wasn’t because men weren’t attracted to me. It was “The Rules”. I was a pretty, yet nerdy, awkward girl and the day my sister handed me that book, its the day I want to time travel to and knock it out of my twentysomething hands.

    Yes, that book was written by gold diggers for gold diggers!

    Resentment is like taking poison and expecting the other people to die. “Payback” will cost YOU more than you think and it sounds like you aren’t outcome independent, if you need  “payback”.

    Success is the best form of revenge. When I was a beta (especially in college), women didn’t just reject me; they treated me like absolute garbage. If I ever meet any of those specific women again, and they see a successful player and hopefully try to throw themselves at me as desperate/fat single mothers looking for a provider, or just a hot guy to fuck, I will indeed take tremendous pleasure in rejecting them!

    This is really an alpha male motto – Success is the best form of revenge!

    The very next man I got very serious with? I sat him down and made him watch “The Crazy/Hot Matrix” Its my shit test. If a man thinks that’s funny, he’s doable,

    I found that video hilarious and true. But that still doesn’t change the fact that if I ever meet again those specific women who rejected me, I will delight in rejecting them after I show them how much I changed. Revenge is still sweet, no matter what type of man you are.

    It’s because I put on my big girl pants and said “What can you learn from this?”, instead of “that guy is a freaking idiot and he’s going to be sorry.”

    I take both attitudes to heart.

     

  120. @S-cool-me:

    All i ask is for loyalty,

    You mean monogamy? Ha ha!

    I didn’t want to sleep around and devalue myself.

    Oh my god! This is such typical Disney thinking! So the more fun you have, the more you’re “devalued?” And the more sexually frustrated you are, the more you’re…..”valuable?” This is typical Disney sadomasochism – denying your own sexuality and arrogantly claiming that it’s a generous gift for the man! I have incredible news: Your vagina is not made of gold.

    i’m not your typical woman from the west as they say.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop it! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You’re killing me!

  121. See, and I LIKE it when men “take care” of me or spoil me and spend money on me.  I love it

    I bet you do.

     

  122. Funny, when I am in a relationship with a submissive woman I’m super into taking care of her.

    The thought of taking care of another adult makes me want to vomit. I guess that’s why I’m only into high sex drive independent red pill women. The ultra submissive princesses give me a headache, remind me of children, and make me feel like a pedophile.

  123. Single men due to their frustrations will move to South East Asia to score younger women and be done with western women. I’m already considering this.

    @John: I hope so. That means more western women for me who actually like sex. Have fun with your third world gold diggers and religious prudes. I’ll be over here in the west – the only civilization where female (and therefore, male) sexual liberation is a reality!

  124. @Heyhey:

    LG the moment you agreed on monogamous relationship, the one who cheats is the “bad person”. There is no excuse for that.

    Yes there is! Dude, don’t hate the cheaters! Monogamy doesn’t work. Although cheating is certainly an inferior strategy to open relationships, it shows more self esteem and a desire to step outside the box than slugging it out in miserable monogamy like a completely clueless societally programming robot!

    See, this is where mercy for the blue pillers comes in: If you’re a blue piller who is not yet ready for the red pill, the purple pill is better than the blue one. If you’re not ready for open relationships or poly arrangements yet, cheating is the second best option. Monogamy is the third best.

    Cheaters can be awesome people and deserve our sympathy for making the best of a bad situation and complimented for at least taking their first, albeit clumsy, baby steps towards the red pill. Again, it’s better than staying in monogamous hell. Cheaters get way more respect from me than the monogamous sheeple. Cheaters have the right idea, but haven’t yet learned about open relationships.

    Before I discovered the poly community, I cheated on every single mono girlfriend I ever had (with two exceptions), and most of them cheated on me too, I’m sure. It’s just human nature. Sometimes you have to go the deceptive route before you find the superior method. And I have nothing but respect for the married women and women with boyfriends who cheat on them with me. Married and cheating women have provided me with some of the best sex I ever had, and they are awesome women who have enough self esteem to step out of the monogamy matrix. Sometimes deception is the first clumsy step to eventual red pill liberation.

    Jump around all you like, YOU accepted this in the first place and barring some extreme behaviours from the other party your resolve should have been no cheating no divorcing no breaking up till the end of time.

    This is Disney nonsense. She should be complimented for cheating. She probably wouldn’t have eventually discovered the poly/open community otherwise. For many people (myself included) cheating is the gateway towards eventual poly honesty and the first flicker of true self esteem and a desire to escape the prison.

    Don’t condemn the cheaters. Help them cheat. And hopefully, guide them eventually towards the superior poly way. But first thing is first. They must be deprogrammed from monogamy one step at a time. Cheating is many people’s very good first step (it certainly was mine).

    We both know though this is not true and was never going to happen. So getting married and agreeing to a monogamous relationship makes you naive at best.

    We can’t all learn in one day. Show some mercy.

  125. Normal Madonna/Whore male behavior, which you are also exhibiting in your comments about how bad you think it is for him to “wife up” a woman who has given “bad boys their turn”.

    Actually, I agree with this part of Eddie’s beliefs. It is not slut shaming or M/W to condemn and rightfully shame this woman for acting like a virgin after she easily slept with multiple alphas. I agree that the man Ciara is marrying is a stupid beta, but she has no business playing the innocent damsel just for his money.

    Gold diggers who take advantage of men (even beta men) like that for money by playing the prude, just so the beta can provide for her and raise another man’s kids, are bad people. No slut shaming or M/W beliefs here. Just prude shaming and gold digger shaming. That’s all.

  126. Cheating as the word says is backstabbing. Nothing to do with Disney. Cheaters are the “evil” of the situation. They agreed in something they fully knew was not going to last forever yet being naive or needy pussy failed to aknowledge that reality and proceeded in monogamy.

    We have all been there some learn some don’t but being a cheater myself i fully blame myself for that. Being truthful and congruent is what makes you right. For me it is simple, monogamy doesn’t work but if someone wants to go down that path he is fully at fault when he cheats or breaks up. Not the other person. No excuses.

  127. Learning from cheating doesn’t negate the act. You choose to blame the other person or feeling no remorse towards him for your act and pad yourself, i don’t, i take full responsibility for what i did and i accept that what happened was my mistake. Then i proceed to learn from it so that this will never happen again.
    Whats worse is cheat, throw all the blame to other person with stupid excuses and then proceed to your fun free caring life without giving shit what you caused to other person. Then you go make the same mistakes over and over because its the other person not you. Self righteous BS.

  128. I’ve been to a pretty wide variety of types of swinger parties and I can count on one hand the times I’ve seen anyone under 30.  I’m almost always one of the youngest people there and I’m 39.  Even on the swinger website I am on, there are hardly any people under 35.

    LG, I don’t know where you live, but this comes as a shocker and completely opposite to my own experience on the subject. I would have to look really hard to find any of those places with so much older people.

    An alpha male, a real man, knows his needs, he needs a woman as much as the woman needs him. He is the stronger force between the two but also accepts to respect the woman and her desires and needs, provides and commits but if that’s not his thing then yeah at least he is honest from the start/ no games.  A real man isn’t afraid of a woman’s strength and knows how to tame her letting her know he’s in control and leads, then she follows. Most men nowadays don’t exude that type of confidence. Just be, act, be straightforward, honest and lead.

    OMG! That’s the answer!!! Maybe if we crossbreed BD with some beta schmuck, and irradiate him with blue pill rays, we’ll finally give birth to the mystical unicorn man!!! Thanks so much for giving us the formula! BTW, you’re describing an Alpha 1.0 full of oneitis. Good luck with the cheating.

    Hey, I agree that as a screening-for-betas method, not having sex with men quickly works. Go for it if that’s what you want, but I and men like me won’t be dating women like you though.

    Amen brother!!! Too busy pursuing my goals and fulfilling my mission!

    To all women readers of this blog, understand this: Alphas want physical connection first! Always!!! That’s what we are biologically hardwired to do, and we Alpha 2.0s love and embrace that aspect of our masculinity. Making us wait too long breaks the magic. We won’t “value” you more, we won’t think you’re more “worthy” or “better for a long-term commitment”. We’ll just next your ass and move on to a better offer. If you really want the spiritual connection with an Alpha 2.0, give him the physical first and let him decide about the second. I guarantee two things:

    1) we will always come back for more, because we love sex and like to take good care of our women (even FBs);
    2) if you don’t give us drama and we are compatible, we’ll make you something more in our lives and sure be worthy of a long-term commitment;

    You girls know the alternative. Ass kissing/boredom or demands, drama and cheating.

  129. @Jack Outside the Box

    “I have no objection to mentorship. Yes, boys (especially boys raised by single mothers) desperately need alpha male role models. I have nothing against mentoring children that aren’t yours. “

    Hey, you and I are basically in line with our thinking. If you feel like your self respect is at stake by taking care of “poor, innocent children”, please don’t compromise. I mean that. I don’t have children.

    I’m curious why you used that term. I didn’t say poor, yet when I said innocent you associated it with the poor, innocent children. You are very sharp and I’d be curious to know if you are black? I have a bit more understanding with why you think the way you do, if you are. Please don’t answer if you found that offensive.

    Another thing I don’t follow. You respond to my original query about mentorship, positively and a paragraph later seem to completely reverse your tone.

    It is not my job to take responsibility for the actions or creations of another adult. Cleaning up the mess of another adult, like some kind of socialist, now THAT would be a non-alpha move! Those children are the responsibility of the bio dad. If he’s not in the picture, it is certainly NOT alpha, but very beta, for me to accept the consequences of HIS actions. Again, no offense to BD, but taking responsibility on behalf of other men, or other adults, is a loser move, in my humble opinion. A true alpha takes responsibility for his own actions only, not the actions of other men, or women. If those children fail, the responsibility is solely on the bio parents, not an alpha male who refused to clean up the mess that another man made (that’s just insulting)……

     
    That’s what I don’t follow. I never mentioned any of that and some of it seems to be at odds with what you said above.

    This is really an alpha male motto – Success is the best form of revenge!

    ABSOLUTELY!!! But only in the BUSINESS world. Its my opinion and Brian Tracy’s opinion, too that when it comes to human relations, love is the answer. Now, before you say I’ve gone all girl on you, if you have Maximum Achievement in book, p.339 explains WHY, in human relations, its a completely SELFISH act to forgive others.

     

     

  130. I would gladly take care of six biological children of mine WHO ALL HAVE DOWN SYNDROME than even one non-biological child who is already a teenager and perfectly healthy!

    Yeah… I’m gonna go ahead and guess that you don’t have ANY children right now.

  131. @POB

    To all women readers of this blog, understand this: Alphas want physical connection first! Always!!! That’s what we are biologically hardwired to do, and we Alpha 2.0s love and embrace that aspect of our masculinity. Making us wait too long breaks the magic. We won’t “value” you more, we won’t think you’re more “worthy” or “better for a long-term commitment”. We’ll just next your ass and move on to a better offer. If you really want the spiritual connection with an Alpha 2.0, give him the physical first and let him decide about the second. I guarantee two things:

    1) we will always come back for more, because we love sex and like to take good care of our women (even FBs);
    2) if you don’t give us drama and we are compatible, we’ll make you something more in our lives and sure be worthy of a long-term commitment;

    The 1) and 2) I’ve found to be true. I call it Alpha male orbiter drop ins. He likes you but he can’t seem to get past something or you cant get past something, so you end….but then months later, he calls or sometimes maybe I call and its like its hotter than before.

    I will also say that NOT Alpha males want physical. The M/W and thrill of the chase is really strong with a lot of certain types. I had one instance when I was just getting started, where an Alpha was acting too weird. So I blew him off and he nexted me. Then 6 weeks later, drop in, still wont do what he wants, he stood me up. Then he calls me out of the blue 6 weeks later saying he had to have me. And communication broke down again because he wasn’t making sense. Then…

  132. LG my point is you made the mistake once and you THINK you have learned from it. You haven’t you are back to your old ways looking for a beta provider. The only difference is now you do not feel guilty when you embrace your feminine side looking for the alpha and accepting sex quickly.

    I made the mistake of getting married once?  Yes, and…?  I can say with a clear conscience that I believed I was doing the right thing and had no ill intentions.  I can’t say I was “looking for a beta provider” really when I met my ex husband either.  I had more money than him and paid for most of our dates.  In fact, one of the BIGGEST mistakes I ever made was marrying a man without money or drive to make money.  We were both in college and I assumed were going to eventually be okay financially.  I also had sex with him quickly, on the first date, but HE was shocked by it and felt it was wrong.

    So you “make” the beta providers or the alpha needy guy take you out for dinners to prove to you they are worthy of having sex with you, then you built a a relationship that doesn’t work and you cheat or get bored of it. Then you blame the guys for being low sex driven or being boring(as betas) for this situation. You created all this situation because you could simply ditch the beta guy in the 1st/2nd date when he exhibited beta behavior. But your need of validation, attention and provider need kicks in that creates all this mess. Not his low sex drive or any other excuse. You stayed with a guy for 15 years that bored you to death and you think this is better from people who break up at 1 year? Yeah you had kids with him hooray hallelujah and the kids pay the price of this naivety.

    Huh?  I don’t “make” anyone do anything for me.  I just don’t go out with men who don’t, in the first place.  I don’t know where you are getting the idea that I have relationships where I get bored or cheat.  I haven’t been in any monogamous relationships since my divorce.

    As for my marriage, I was completely faithful for the first 13 years of that relationship, didn’t even FLIRT with other men, despite the fact that my ex and I were hardly having any sex.  I did eventually cheat, but I have never claimed it was due to boredom.  I was lonely, not bored.

    Also your perception of Alphas is wrong. You overestimate people thinking they are alphas. Alpha does not mean CEO, Alpha does not mean muscular guy or boxing trainer. An alpha does not accept shit from a woman at least when dating phase passed and he became comfortable. He can be gentleman but when you try to boss him around or scold him he will take it personally and “attack” you and he will be the one bossing you around.

    I know full well what an Alpha is.  I don’t “boss around” or “scold” men.  I’m not sure where you are getting that idea- as I explained earlier I am very submissive in my relationships.  I have a few very Alpha men in my life and a slew of Alpha 1.0’s, lol. 🙂  If you think any of them would tolerate being yelled at or bossed around, you are dead wrong, haha.  However, they have all taken me out on dates and paid for things.

  133. Ha ha! Nice try trying to make men like me out to be weak! Yeah, that’s right, we just can’t handle it! It’s too much. Boohoo! Pathetic!

    I will repeat myself:

    I would gladly take care of six biological children of mine WHO ALL HAVE DOWN SYNDROME than even one non-biological child who is already a teenager and perfectly healthy!

    Then please, DO NOT get involved with any single mothers.  They and their children do not need a man like you in their lives. But don’t disparage the amazing men who are capable and willing to make a difference in some other man’s child’s life.

    I personally don’t really expect to ever find a man who would be willing to do that for MY children, because I have so many, and it makes me sad that they will never have that, but it is what it is.  People keep trying to convince me otherwise, that there are men out there who would, but I don’t really believe it.

    Its unrealistic, and exactly because there are a lot of men out there who DO think like you.  Most of them won’t come out and say it, but they do.  That was the issue with the one guy I actually was really happy with, he just couldn’t fathom taking on my family, which I was okay with, but he was not, because he WANTS a family and children someday, of his own.  Such is life.

  134. Actually, I agree with this part of Eddie’s beliefs. It is not slut shaming or M/W to condemn and rightfully shame this woman for acting like a virgin after she easily slept with multiple alphas. I agree that the man Ciara is marrying is a stupid beta, but she has no business playing the innocent damsel just for his money.

    From what I understand, the no sex thing was HIS idea, not hers.  He sounds just like my ex husband.  He’s “putting God first”.  She’s just happy that a man is not out for “just sex,” I’m sure, and not realizing that someday in the future she is going to pay the price because he DOESN’T care about sex.  I’m not sure why you think she’s after his money.  She has her own….

    Gold diggers who take advantage of men (even beta men) like that for money by playing the prude, just so the beta can provide for her and raise another man’s kids, are bad people. No slut shaming or M/W beliefs here. Just prude shaming and gold digger shaming. That’s all.

    How is she a “gold digger” and why on earth would you assume it has anything to do with money?  She’s already rich, lol.  I don’t see her claiming to be a prude anywhere either.  I just see him saying he wants to wait and her being okay with it.

  135. LG, I don’t know where you live, but this comes as a shocker and completely opposite to my own experience on the subject. I would have to look really hard to find any of those places with so much older people.

    I don’t know where YOU live, but according to Psychology Today, my experience is more normal than yours…

    The demographic profile of the swingers suggests that they are white for the most part, between 36 and 55 years of age, mostly college educated, married for at least 11 to 20 years, and with an average household income between $40,000 and $200,000. Many professions and occupations were represented, from blue-collar and white-collar workers to individuals with advanced professional degrees. Some were self-employed; others worked in public organizations such as health facilities and educational institutions. The demographic findings of this study parallel, for the most part, those of previous studies.

     

  136. I got that idea because you expect men to take you out on many dates and consider men who want quick sex as not respecting you. Should i believe that you never bossed your ex or any other man you were with in a long term relationship?

    You say you see through men easily and you deny the fact that all men want sex. The men who think is wrong does not mean they dont want sex, they are just full of SP and are not true to themselves. Your ex wanted sex but felt the quick one “destroyed” the concept of having a pure princess that she will be the forever woman of his life. SP BS and he was full of it. Felt lonely translates you got bored, rare sex translates you got bored and what kept you in the marriage was SP. Imagine you had an Alpha( and by alpha i mean the 1.0) and the challenge he would have been giving you. The boredom would have been very very rare. Also provider does not mean just money. Provider means you felt he was a nice guy that would have been there for you, following your commands buy together a nice house without objections doing irrational things without objections(like having kids without being ready financially, jump at the very first opportunity to propose) etc. Men do these because they are very needy and are territorial. This is not love. Women just take advantage of this to proceed to their agenda whether it is to have kids and someone to provide for them. This is not conscious.

    You know you made the mistake, you are saying you learned from it yet you expect men to take you out on many dates in order to prove to you they are worthy of having sex with you. Is this learning from your mistakes? The more a guy takes you out on dates to have sex with you the less worthy he is. Otherwise you are just seeking a provider and you are not honest to yourself.

  137. @ hey hey

    You know you made the mistake, you are saying you learned from it yet you expect men to take you out on many dates in order to prove to you they are worthy of having sex with you.

    As another intuitive woman, I have to say, that’s not necessarily what she meant. I’m not her and I’ve relaxed my screening to experiment and see if my results change. If you believe in MBTI, SP is particularly fucked up and abusive to an Intuitive female, its why I think that a lot of us are late bloomers.

    I can’t speak for Lovergirl, I can only speak for me. As a female who is outside the box, I have been asked my whole life, at different points of time,  “Why can’t you be normal?” Well for starters, I’m an ENTP female. There’s no such thing. It means expect constant change. We are known as flighty and eccentric and see no reason to do things the way they’ve been done before, even when people are making us feel wrong.

    It makes you guarded, its hard to let people (male or female) in because the few times you have, they’re like a bull in a china shop to your head and heart space, if they aren’t healthy.

    I know you want to hear that the reason you haven’t gotten to a woman’s pussy is because she thought you were too poor. That MAY be the case. It also might be because she is damaged or romance is awkward.

    I have zero issues with you wanting sex right away, I just don’t believe that the reasons a lot of you believe a woman isn’t letting you fuck her are ALL the reasons.

    I need quality, abstract conversation to get me connected on a deeper level. I’m a dreamer, so I like to hear other people’s dreams.

  138. I’ve been reading all the comments and can honestly say I am being schooled.

    At 33 now, I’ve always been detached and somewhat skeptical about marriage not bc I don’t trust myself, while involved I was loyal, never cheated and didn’t desire another man than the one I was with.  I wanted the memories and long friendship if anything. I never demanded marriage nor kids, at this point I’m still not sure if that’s really what I want or if it’s SP creeping up on me as all of my friends and ppl my age are settled but again seeing the cheating and discontent in monogamy it makes me question what’s the whole point of it.

    What I do ask  for is honesty. I’m open for anything as long as I agreed on it. But as mentioned earlier, guys are not honest and claim they want a relationship but don’t know what it takes to have one. I guess I’m coming to the conclusion that it is in fact SP that’s taken over everyone men and women, men play on the idea and women fall for it.

    I’ve been single for 3 years now. I got into FB with another guy 1 year later bc well, I have needs. He didn’t want a relationship okay fine, I agreed, at least he was honest so good we kept that going until six months ago. I let that ago bc it felt more like an ppt i was going to minus the friendship part that I like, no conversations, nothing…boring for me.

    Now two months ago I met this guy, I approached him, I liked something about him, idk what it was but we talked for the entire time while at the lounge (I approached him just to spark a conversation bc I was bored with my cousin and her friends). He asked me out to dinner the next day I agreed. he asked me to come to his house the following weekend said he wanted to cook dinner, ok  I agreed and I already knew what it was expected being that his house is one hour away and would spend the night lol- welp, I got my cycle the day before. oh well

    Went to his house anyway, well he took me out instead bc he’s a ceo and works long hours. so after dinner we went back to his house. We had a bottle of wine, watched a movie and then started fooling around, if I had not been on my cycle we would’ve hooked up, we got pretty intimate which was an indication that I was willing to take it there. Next day he cooked me breakfast. 🙂

    After that weekend on Wednesday I left on my annual bday getways (to get away from the cold and ppl in general) I do these alone bc that’s what I do. But we kept in touch the entire time, skyped, whatsapp, he couldn’t believe that I actually travel to other countries/islands on my own. So by now this is almost three weeks in and he’s claiming to be impressed with me and wants me to be his girlfriend and I questioned how does he know we want the same thing…

    When I got back a week after he took me to dinner as bday treat then after for drinks. I had a blast and we both enjoyed ourselves. Again, I met him at his house which is an hour away passing the city, in which he drove back to, so again that was an indication what was to go down when we got back in late..but again, he mentioned he liked me a lot, the way that I am, the way that I carry myself, my independence, my honesty, no hassles, I don’t do drama-and I was too good to be true and that he’d want this for a while….

    Got to his house- as we were in the heat of the moment I asked if he put on a condom, he simply said shhh- uh ok I’m assuming he does- I mean what kind of CEO living in a 4 bd house, driving a bentley (i didn’t know this prior to meeting him) would risk slipping up or STD’s for that matter- well, he didn’t and I got concerned but hey, it was good for three times that night until the morning. Again, he said I’m amazing…etc.

    Next day I asked if he’d done anything inside just to make sure but he said don’t worry that he had a vasectomy while he was married to prevent having another kid. He is my age, has a 12yr old daughter, married at 18 but separated 4 yrs and going thru divorce…so then I got curious as to what he really wants out of this and to be honest bc according to him he wants a girlfriend but in what terms…fast forward he’s not talking to me, I simply wanted to know his expectations so that we can go forth so now idk what’s up with him and his impression about me. It’s been almost two weeks now and I’m clueless as to what happened.

    Some guy’s are weird, they’re not straightforward and they feel threatened when they do meet a female who is and is also open for a FB, maybe those with the MW… maybe he’s confused as to what he wants due to being jaded after marriage or he simply enjoyed the idea of deceiving me but I didn’t even care for a relationship as I was going with the flow since I approached him to begin with. Games, lies, secrets, yup can’t find a dude who is as straight up as I am, with no baggage. I’m still learning, I don’t push for anything but if we both want it okay good if not ok we can have fun but just be transparent. Oh well.

  139. Amber I’m also ENTP and i love the debate just for the heck of it. But if I go out with a woman who i would love to have sex with, she is out if she resists after few dates and i dont care about it. The attraction shows from the first couple dates, after that is just farting around whether you enjoy the debate or not. Sex comes first then the high intellectual conversation.

    A woman who resisted had a long distant bf her SP was high knew exactly what i wanted, felt too bad about resisting because she was clearly attracted but still tries to contact me one way or another without me giving her anymore attention apart from replying politely and ending the conversation quickly. She wants it but she feels trapped(once she breaks up though she will definitely seek me out and i prefer not being the reason for her break up). This is exactly what you are doing to yourselves. You put too many guards because of SP and when you have someone you are quickly attracted to, you do your best to put him in make him wait, destroying the beauty of it. Which is sex and fun without any care what anyone says. And after a while you can have a discussion about how this will unfold. If the guy is needy then you know right there and then he is not the guy for you and you move on easily(because you didnt promise anything).

  140. Also if i was being beta towards her taking her out date after date eventually she would have either cheated her bf because she would have gotten more attention from me and i would have raised the provider bar for her or she would have tossed me aside seeing how desperate i am for her. In both occassions her attraction would have been minimal. Imagine now this scenario leading to a wedding. How pathetic is that from both sides?

  141. @ Jack

    I don’t think what you said is really any different from what I said. First of all, I didn’t say you HATED children, but that you didn’t think non-bio kids are worth your investment.  I don’t enjoy children myself. I find them to be simultaneously boring and annoying, which is a terrible combination. Many people feel that way, but they are willing to make an exception for their own bio kids because they want a genetic legacy. But my point stands that there are some people who actually enjoy children just simply because they are kids, whether or not there is any genetic legacy attached. They just plain like being around kids. Kind of like I just plain like being around animals.

    So there are four possible combinations for people:

    People who enjoy children + care about a genetic legacy = people who want to have biological children and also would enjoy non-biological children (i.e. step-parent or adopting)
    People who don’t enjoy children + care about a genetic legacy = people who want to have biological children but would never parent a non-biological child (like you or my dad)
    People who enjoy children + don’t care about a genetic legacy = people who want to adopt or be a step-parent but don’t want biological children (rare but I’ve known some people like this)
    People who don’t enjoy children + don’t care about a genetic legacy = people who don’t want to be a parent at all, whether to a biological child, adopted child, or step-child (like me)

    You seem to be in category 2, and I think probably the largest portion of men are in that category. But not all of them, and there’s no reason for you to criticize or judge other people as stupid just because they don’t have the same values or interests as you. Not everyone cares about a genetic legacy, I could care less about that (even though technically I guess I have one because I’ve been an egg donor). In fact, I’d say if a genetic legacy is the primary thing that interests you, you should look into being a sperm donor, because that allows you to get other couples to raise children with your genes, so you can pass them on with no investment from you. Though you also seem to indicate that you also want to raise your biological children…

  142. I got that idea because you expect men to take you out on many dates and consider men who want quick sex as not respecting you. Should i believe that you never bossed your ex or any other man you were with in a long term relationship?

    How many times do I need to reiterate this? I have never, ever, expected any man to take me on “many dates” before sex.  I’m generally annoyed if they haven’t tried by the second date.  Ain’t nobody got time for that!  Did you not read the comment above, about the boxer I fucked last weekend, on the FIRST date?

    I said that I hold men to a higher standard than I did when I was younger.  I expect them to treat me better.  I said that many older women have learned, through trial and error, that men respond better and treat women better, when they hold out on sex.  I did not say that I was one of those women that holds out.

    I have, however, been the woman that was fucking a guy who turned around and dumped me for someone who was holding out. It happened to me less than two weeks ago!  Perhaps I haven’t learned my lessons as well as those smartER women!

  143. You know you made the mistake, you are saying you learned from it yet you expect men to take you out on many dates in order to prove to you they are worthy of having sex with you. Is this learning from your mistakes? The more a guy takes you out on dates to have sex with you the less worthy he is. Otherwise you are just seeking a provider and you are not honest to yourself.

    Sigh.  No hey, hey, this isn’t what’s going on.  I expect a man to take me out on a date before sex for the following reasons.

    1.I feel safer meeting in public, especially if we met online.
    2. It gives me a chance to leave more easily if I am not attracted or interested in him after meeting.  I can feel him out and make a safe getaway.
    3. It shows he is attributing some value to me, putting effort into me and not treating me like “damaged/used goods”- that his Madonna/Whore is not so bad that he can’t treat me like a human being.
    4.It shows respect for me as a woman, that he is not trying to push me to compromise on the above list.
    5.By paying for me, he is saying I am “worth” something in his eyes and I feel better about sharing my body with someone who feels that way than someone who doesn’t.

    The men I sleep with are men who have demonstrated this basic courtesy and I appreciate it.  I don’t see that as beta at all.  I see trying to dodge around taking a woman on a date as a sign of someone not worth MY time.

  144. You say you see through men easily and you deny the fact that all men want sex. The men who think is wrong does not mean they dont want sex, they are just full of SP and are not true to themselves. Your ex wanted sex but felt the quick one “destroyed” the concept of having a pure princess that she will be the forever woman of his life. SP BS and he was full of it.

    I don’t deny that most men want sex.  I’m not so sure about my ex husband, as he didn’t want sex with ME even on our wedding night or after marriage.  At least, not very often.

    Felt lonely translates you got bored, rare sex translates you got bored and what kept you in the marriage was SP.

    I didn’t get bored.  I was lonely for human contact.  Rare sex had nothing to do with me.  He was the one who didn’t want to have sex, not me.

     

    Imagine you had an Alpha( and by alpha i mean the 1.0) and the challenge he would have been giving you. The boredom would have been very very rare.

    I didn’t marry an Alpha 1.0, but I have dated plenty of them.  I don’t know if I would have gotten bored.  Perhaps he would have kept me “interested” with all the drama of him cheating on me?  Who knows….

    Also provider does not mean just money. Provider means you felt he was a nice guy that would have been there for you, following your commands buy together a nice house without objections doing irrational things without objections(like having kids without being ready financially, jump at the very first opportunity to propose) etc. Men do these because they are very needy and are territorial. This is not love. Women just take advantage of this to proceed to their agenda whether it is to have kids and someone to provide for them. This is not conscious.

    My ex wanted to get married more than I did, and years later he said it was due to pressure from his parents.  They did want us to get married. I was in no rush.  It was never really a thing for me, like it is for a lot of women.

    I never “commanded” him to buy me a nice house or give me children.  Those were mutual decisions.  He wasn’t particularly needy or territorial either.

  145. @ Jack

    I don’t think what you said is really any different from what I said. First of all, I didn’t say you HATED children, but that you didn’t think non-bio kids are worth your investment.

    It depends on the investment. If you’re talking about volunteering as a mentor for a high school, sure, I’ll do that. “Hey kids, don’t fuck your teachers! They will go to jail for making you happy. And that will make all of us very sad. Now which teenage girl here can tell me what it’s called when she texts her boyfriend a picture of her breasts? Sexting? No. It’s called child pornography and your boyfriend, even if he and you are both 17, will go to prison and register as a sex offender. So if you love your boyfriend, try not to do that, mmkay?” 

    But if by “investment” you mean taking care of them financially, being legally responsible for any crimes that they commit, having my name on their birth certificate, and being pronounced the legal father in family court……yeah, that’s not gonna work for me.

     I don’t enjoy children myself. I find them to be simultaneously boring and annoying, which is a terrible combination. Many people feel that way, but they are willing to make an exception for their own bio kids because they want a genetic legacy.

    I may even be the type of person who enjoys children as well, even non-bio children. I just draw the line at taking legal responsibility for them, unless they biologically belong to me.

    But my point stands that there are some people who actually enjoy children just simply because they are kids, whether or not there is any genetic legacy attached.

    I think I’m in that category. But again, I simply won’t take legal responsibility for them or their actions, unless they are genetically mine.

    So there are four possible combinations for people:

    People who enjoy children + care about a genetic legacy = people who want to have biological children and also would enjoy non-biological children (i.e. step-parent or adopting)

    That’s probably me. Except I draw the line at taking any type of long term responsibility for children that aren’t mine. And since, in this fucked up legal system, family courts (in some states) may pronounce you the legal father against your will (thus forcing you to pay child support) if (1) the children announce that they have grown “emotionally attached to you” and (2) you’re fucking the mother, it means I’ll probably have to limit my interactions with children only to my future bio ones, and perhaps mentoring some older kids/teenagers in a professional or academic context with zero prospects of an emotional/parental attachment.

    People who don’t enjoy children + care about a genetic legacy = people who want to have biological children but would never parent a non-biological child (like you or my dad)

    See, but you said before that your dad could barely stand his own bio children. That’s not the kind of father I want to be. I will absolutely enjoy my bio children. I’m looking forward to being a parent. This is not something I look upon with dread just to have a genetic legacy. Yes, a genetic legacy is super important to me, which is why I won’t cheapen my bio children by taking legal responsibility for non-bio ones, as that would be evolutionary suicide in a way, but my overall attitude to kids in general is positive (although I’m admittedly more comfortable with older kids/teenagers because of our fucked up laws emanating from our family court industrial complex, and, once again, I draw the line at taking legal responsibility for kids that aren’t mine).

    You seem to be in category 2,

    More like Category 1, except with the stipulation that I be allowed to literally leave at any time and never come back whenever the mood strikes me if they are not my bio kids.

    there’s no reason for you to criticize or judge other people as stupid just because they don’t have the same values or interests as you.

    Taking actual responsibility (especially legal responsibility) for a kid that is not yours, thus implicitly freeing the bio dad of his responsibilities, has always struck me as a sucker move. But hey, BD did it and he doesn’t seem to care, so fine, whatever. I’m just saying what it looks like to me.

    Not everyone cares about a genetic legacy,

    There is a difference between not caring about a genetic legacy (which I understand, albeit disagree with) and becoming the promoter and purveyor of another man’s genetic legacy (which is harder for me to understand or reconcile with high self esteem).

    In fact, I’d say if a genetic legacy is the primary thing that interests you, you should look into being a sperm donor, because that allows you to get other couples to raise children with your genes, so you can pass them on with no investment from you.

    You did not just say that! Please tell me you did not just fucking say that!

    First of all, where did you get the insane idea that I don’t want to invest my heart and soul in my own biological children???? That is a heartless suggestion and I deeply resent it! In fact, I judge people who are sperm or egg donors even more harshly than those who raise other people’s children. Although I am disgusted by family courts tracking down sperm donors 10 years later and forcing them to pay child support, if you actually care nothing about your own flesh and blood walking around somewhere not knowing who their bio mom is because you decided to give your eggs to some despicable Frankenstein factory, you and I are EXTREMELY far apart on this issue.

    Second of all, although I do believe in adoption if the biological parents can’t provide the kind of life the child deserves and if the adoptive parents are infertile themselves, the bio parents still have a moral obligation to screen for appropriate parental personalities.

    No offense to you, but I cannot psychologically comprehend the utter heartlessness and callous indifference one must have towards their own flesh and blood to actually be willing to donate sperm to a sperm bank or eggs so that your own bio child can potentially be raised by two morbidly obese radical feminist lesbian pigs who will teach your daughter that all men are scum, or your son that all sex is rape and his urges are evil.

    If I were king, I’d criminalize the shit out of sperm banks, egg banks, and artificial insemination! It’s child abuse, in my opinion.

    Though you also seem to indicate that you also want to raise your biological children…

    Yeah, no shit! They are my blood! My DNA! My genetic legacy to the world. My contribution to humanity that allows me to continue giving that which my parents, grandparents, and everyone else in my bloodline from the beginning of history have given me! It’s about returning gratitude to what was done for me! I want to love them, care for them, financially provide for them, protect them, raise them, instruct them in the ways of the world, teach them correct values, shape and influence their personalities in ways that I deem just (as much as possible), and hopefully contribute positively to the future.

    How could a person just make a child and walk away? It seems almost sociopathic to me. Of course, I’m a libertarian and believe no one should be legally forced to be a parent against their will (although I would enforce adoptive parent personality standards and criminalize sperm and egg banks), but we’re talking morality here.

  146. Then please, DO NOT get involved with any single mothers.  They and their children do not need a man like you in their lives.

    What do you mean by “get involved?” Single mothers definitely make good fuck buddies. I’ve even upgraded one or two to friends with benefits. In 2008, when I was cheating on my very last mono girlfriend, I was sleeping with a married IRS agent. She was just a fuck buddy, of course, so I never saw her husband or kids (except in pictures, she liked showing me those).

    I’m willing to get involved with single mothers only to the extent that I never have to see, or get involved with, their kids. So far, this has translated to single mothers being stuck at the friends with benefits or fuck buddy level only. And I’m okay with that, since most of the women I sleep with who have children are not single at all, but in serious monogamous relationships with their boyfriends or married who are cheating on their husbands/boyfriends/baby daddies with me! And they’ve given me some of the best sex in my life, so it’s very unlikely that I will stop sleeping with them just because they have kids (as long as it is easy for me to stay away from the kids).

    But don’t disparage the amazing men who are capable and willing to make a difference in some other man’s child’s life.

    Well I certainly wouldn’t try to stop it. If a man wants to be another man’s genetic janitor and clean up his mess, I won’t dictate his choices to him. He is, after all, an adult who chooses how to spend his time. And even BD has successfully raised another man’s kid without feeling like a beta, so it’s their choice.

    But exceptions like BD prove the rule. Overall, in general, men nursing other men’s sperm are betas. That’s just how I feel. But they, of course, have a right to keep doing it if it gives them some kind of satisfaction.

  147. Hey, you and I are basically in line with our thinking. If you feel like your self respect is at stake by taking care of “poor, innocent children”, please don’t compromise. I mean that. I don’t have children.

    I’m curious why you used that term. I didn’t say poor, yet when I said innocent you associated it with the poor, innocent children.

    It was a logical extrapolation based on what you said, as rich children typically lack for nothing. Don’t read too much into it.

    You are very sharp and I’d be curious to know if you are black? I have a bit more understanding with why you think the way you do, if you are. Please don’t answer if you found that offensive.

    No, I’m white. Although I’m not sure why my views would be more understandable if I were black…

    Another thing I don’t follow. You respond to my original query about mentorship, positively and a paragraph later seem to completely reverse your tone.

    That’s what I don’t follow. I never mentioned any of that and some of it seems to be at odds with what you said above.

    Again, there is a huge difference between mentorship and taking actual legal responsibility for another man’s sperm. I don’t mind mentoring or giving advice, but you must see the huge difference between that and actually taking care of, and being legally responsible for, a child (including the child’s crimes).

    Also, I would never mentor a child who belongs to a woman I’m sleeping with because, in certain circumstances, in my home state, family court can pronounce you the legal father and force you to pay child support and take responsibility for the non-bio kid if the kid claims he is “emotionally attached to you.” It’s a fucked up system that compels me to completely stay away from the children of women I’m sleeping with.

    ABSOLUTELY!!! But only in the BUSINESS world.

    In every world. Nothing stings to those who hate you like your success.

    Its my opinion and Brian Tracy’s opinion, too that when it comes to human relations, love is the answer. Now, before you say I’ve gone all girl on you, if you have Maximum Achievement in book, p.339 explains WHY, in human relations, its a completely SELFISH act to forgive others.

    And then what? Have sex with these women who rejected me in high school because they are now more desperate and pathetic as their looks have started to fade? Nah! Even if I do forgive them, I’ll still reject them, since by the time they are in their 40s and ready to give me a chance, their daughters will be in their 20s! So I’ll just sleep with their much hotter daughters, even if I forgive the mothers fully, because the daughters are hotter and it’s more rational for me to sleep with them anyway!

    So regardless of whether I forgive or not, I’m still rejecting the 40 year old who treated me like shit in high school so I can bang her hot 18 year old daughter (unless they’re both interested in a mother/daughter threesome)! I can definitely take care of someone else’s adult kids. 🙂

    Although, I admit, it will be delicious for the 18 year old daughter to tell me what a loser her mom thinks I am and how her mom rejected me in high school while I bang the daughter in the ass!

  148. @Heyhey:

    Cheating as the word says is backstabbing.

    I don’t see that in the word at all.

    Nothing to do with Disney. Cheaters are the “evil” of the situation.

    Strongly disagree!

    They agreed in something they fully knew was not going to last forever yet being naive or needy pussy failed to aknowledge that reality and proceeded in monogamy.

    They didn’t necessarily know. They could have been blue pill sheep but then saw the light. Many monogamous people are recovering betas who used to be robotic drones to the culture. Cheating is their first step towards the light. They are already shamed by the Disney crowd. They don’t need more shame from you for taking their first steps towards true liberation.

    We have all been there some learn some don’t but being a cheater myself i fully blame myself for that.

    Then you’re being too hard on yourself and still harbor some societal programming when it comes to guilt.

    Being truthful and congruent is what makes you right.

    Truthful? With a blue piller who is not ready to hear the truth or accept the responsibility that comes with that knowledge? I don’t think so. Sometimes the most loving thing you can do to a blue piller is lie to them.

    For me it is simple, monogamy doesn’t work but if someone wants to go down that path he is fully at fault when he cheats or breaks up.

    This is perfectionism, otherwise known as cruelty. It is inhuman.

    Not the other person.

    Of course not. Who said anything about blaming the other person? The fact that monogamy doesn’t work is certainly not the other person’s fault either.

    No excuses.

    Wow! That’s cold man!

    Learning from cheating doesn’t negate the act. You choose to blame the other person

    Huh? I have never blamed any woman I cheated on for my cheating. While the monogamous relationships lasted, the women I was in those relationships with were awesome. I didn’t cheat because I was mad at them. I cheated for reasons that had literally nothing to do with them. The same goes for the married women and women with boyfriends I sleep with now. They mostly love their husbands/boyfriends. They’re cheating for completely separate reasons – it’s their nature as human beings. This doesn’t necessarily mean those men are to blame in any way.

    or feeling no remorse towards him for your act and pad yourself,

    The only remorse you should feel is when you get caught because that is when you have actually hurt your primary partner. Cheaters mostly are very much in love with the person they are cheating on, which is why they go through great pains to make sure they don’t get caught. Causing pain to their primary partner would rightfully bring feelings of guilt and remorse. This is why the more in love they are, the more discrete and CIA-like they are with their cheating. The headache they go through is, I would say, actually proof of their love for their primary.

    But when you speak of “remorse” you aren’t talking about hurting your partner. You are talking about doing something that your partner doesn’t even know about, and is therefore not hurt by. It’s some abstract ideological fiction in your head that is causing you to feel remorse for your actions when your partner is perfectly happy with you.

    Getting caught is evil because it hurts people. Cheating is natural and may even help spice up and strengthen a marriage or a relationship (as the married and taken women I’ve slept with have told me plenty of times). I’ve strengthened many families (their words, not mine) by sleeping with these married women, and the women who slept with me back when I was monogamous and cheating definitely extended the expiration dates on those relationships of mine as well.

    i don’t, i take full responsibility for what i did and i accept that what happened was my mistake. Then i proceed to learn from it so that this will never happen again.

    So you got caught, and therefore, hurt someone? You’re right, that was your mistake. But I doubt you would have discovered the superior method of open/poly arrangements if you wouldn’t have started out as a cheater. Don’t be so hard on yourself.

    Whats worse is cheat, throw all the blame to other person with stupid excuses and then proceed to your fun free caring life without giving shit what you caused to other person.

    Agreed! Blaming the other person is evil (assuming the other person is a good partner). I have never blamed my female primaries back in my mono days and the mono women I sleep with now don’t blame their male primaries either. And yes, if you got caught and hurt the other person, just continuing with your fun life while your former partner is crushed is evil. That’s why you make sure you don’t cause anything to your partner or hurt your partner in any way – DON’T GET CAUGHT!

    Or better yet, learn the superior method of open relationships and leave cheating to those in the intermediate stage.

    Then you go make the same mistakes over and over because its the other person not you. Self righteous BS.

    Correct! Trashing the other person is self righteous bullshit. Unless, of course, the other person really is to blame. I think, in Lovergirl’s case, her husband really did turn out to be an asexual. She did the only high self esteem thing she could think of by cheating.

    Here’s the big picture: Everyone is in an open relationship. Some know it and others don’t. The most primitive type (albeit an inevitable starting point for some, like me and others) of open relationship is cheating in which neither of you knows that you’re cheating on each other. Then we move closer to “don’t ask, don’t tell” arrangements, then passive agreements, then active agreements (as long as we don’t share details about our side lovers), and then fully active agreements where we both sleep with other people and tell each other the juicy details (OLTR)!

    It’s a spectrum. Cheating is not a mistake. It is just the least perfect form of an open relationship. Most of us poly men and women evolved from that. Don’t hate the cheater. Compliment him/her for starting the journey and realizing that the myth of monogamy exists literally nowhere, except with low sex drive people who just suck, or in sexually repressive countries!

     

     

  149. I personally don’t really expect to ever find a man who would be willing to do that for MY children, because I have so many, and it makes me sad that they will never have that, but it is what it is.  People keep trying to convince me otherwise, that there are men out there who would, but I don’t really believe it.

    Its unrealistic, and exactly because there are a lot of men out there who DO think like you.  Most of them won’t come out and say it, but they do.  That was the issue with the one guy I actually was really happy with, he just couldn’t fathom taking on my family, which I was okay with, but he was not, because he WANTS a family and children someday, of his own.  Such is life.

    Lovergirl, you’re in an extreme situation with your 5 kids, so here’s the truth and my sincere advice for you:

    There are beta males who will make you their monogamous girlfriend or wife. They will gladly raise your 5 kids as their own because they are unattractive betas. But you’re right, alphas won’t. So here’s my advice:

    Marry, or go monogamous with, one of these betas willing to raise all of your kids (the most attractive one you can find). Convince him you’re monogamous and faithful and your children will have a great father. Then cheat on him as much as you can with alphas on the side (including swingers parties, group sex, and all the other stuff you’re already doing).

    This way, your kids will have a full time father who is a good man, while you have him as a primary while secretly getting all of your sexual needs met on the side with hot alphas.

    Since, like you, I seriously doubt any alpha male will agree to a serious open relationship with you, due to your five kids, my above advice may be the best solution to your extreme situation. Just pick a beta you are at least a little bit attracted to. And make sure you don’t get caught.

  150. Jack you don’t understand something. Cheating is wrong whether your partner knows it or not. It is like stealing and because they didn’t find out about your act you think it makes it right. It is cheating not agreeable in your mono relationship. You were at fault i was at fault. What you learned from it, is another matter. You learned from your mistakes so it was a mistake.

    Now by embracing your nature you can fuck any woman you want without hiding, without cheating. Because you are honest to the women. Cheating = backstabbing. You agreed in exclusivity then you backed down on your promise. Accept it was a mistake you made, learn from it, change it and don’t make it again. Saying it was not a mistake then be exclusive again cheat and have no morality.

  151. @ Jack in the Box

    sorry had a squirrel run by.

    I’m not sure if the implication was that I was rich or you are.

    Also, I would never mentor a child who belongs to a woman I’m sleeping with because, in certain circumstances, in my home state, family court can pronounce you the legal father and force you to pay child support and take responsibility for the non-bio kid if the kid claims he is “emotionally attached to you.” It’s a fucked up system that compels me to completely stay away from the children of women I’m sleeping with.

    Since I’m not a man this wasn’t on my radar, was NOT aware of this. This is logical to me.

    And then what? Have sex with these women who rejected me in high school because they are now more desperate and pathetic as their looks have started to fade?

    NO… I know some men would secretly love a chance at a mom and a daughter and your true thinking says that’s what you want. Machiavellian? Probably, but reality. and then you get so many more options.

    When I asked if you were black it was to determine if this belief was cultural or something else. That’s all. I wasn’t sure if this was something to do with how you were raised or if our Victim culture is what you were rejecting. It appears to be neither.

     

     

     

     

  152. @ hey hey

    A woman who resisted had a long distant bf her SP was high knew exactly what i wanted, felt too bad about resisting because she was clearly attracted but still tries to contact me one way or another without me giving her anymore attention apart from replying politely and ending the conversation quickly. She wants it but she feels trapped(once she breaks up though she will definitely seek me out and i prefer not being the reason for her break up)

    I agree she’ll be back. I got your thinking. I agree with what you are saying and it sounds like it will work out. hello fellow ENTP. 🙂

  153. NO… I know some men would secretly love a chance at a mom and a daughter and your true thinking says that’s what you want. Machiavellian? Probably, but reality.

    Since you were a Catholic girl all your life, I’ll forgive you for thinking this is pure fantasy. You’d be shocked. I’m not saying I ever had, or ever necessarily will have, a mother/daughter threesome, but it’s at least more realistic than you think, and there are men who have done it!

    I wasn’t sure if this was something to do with how you were raised or if our Victim culture is what you were rejecting. It appears to be neither.

    So you’re saying I embrace “victim culture?” No one who embraces that would ever say the things I have said, like “success is the best form of revenge.”

  154. Jack you don’t understand something. Cheating is wrong whether your partner knows it or not.

    I thoroughly disagree. But we can agree to disagree.

    It is like stealing and because they didn’t find out about your act you think it makes it right.

    Stealing? Really? When you steal, a physical object is missing, or some kind of tangible, practical asset which leaves you vulnerable for indictment in front of a grand jury.

    When you cheat, what are you “stealing?” And don’t say, “your partner’s trust,” because remember, we’re not getting caught. You have some kind of intangible, abstract concept of honor that you claim is being “stolen” by cheating that is solely a fictional invention of the matrix. Again, what are you stealing from your partner exactly? And try not to get abstract/theoretical on me.

    It is cheating not agreeable in your mono relationship. You were at fault i was at fault. What you learned from it, is another matter. You learned from your mistakes so it was a mistake.

    My point is that cheating, while inferior to open relationships, is superior to monogamy. Cheaters get way more respect from me than monogamous drones. But people within the poly/open community get more respect from me than cheaters. Without that “mistake” my eventual enlightenment wouldn’t have been possible. I’m sad that cheaters are not poly, but hey, at least they’re cheating.

    Avoiding monogamy through dishonest means is better than not avoiding it at all. Avoiding it through honest means is the best!

    Let’s agree that we don’t live in a perfect world and sometimes dishonesty is your only weapon to maintain your sanity in a mono relationship.

    Now by embracing your nature you can fuck any woman you want without hiding, without cheating. Because you are honest to the women.

    Correct! Honest open relationships are the best.

    Cheating = backstabbing. You agreed in exclusivity then you backed down on your promise. Accept it was a mistake you made, learn from it, change it and don’t make it again. Saying it was not a mistake then be exclusive again cheat and have no morality.

    Sometimes, that’s the only thing people can do to avoid monogamous hell. Many people, especially women, are simply too scared to go poly, or have jealousy weaknesses which prevent them from taking that final plunge into the red pill. They’re weak, which makes them human. But they still don’t want monogamous hell. So they compromise by cheating and I applaud them for that wholeheartedly! Is it the best solution? No. Would honest poly arrangements be better and ideal? Yes. But at least they have found a creative way to avoid mono.

    You’re saying to the cheaters “Be poly. If that’s too scary, be mono.” Well, there is a compromise here. For people who are, at least temporarily, too scared of poly, there is a way they can have one foot in mainstream society and the other foot in the red pill community – by cheating. That’s not the best, but it’s at least better than having both feet within mainstream society.

     Hopefully, they will one day place the other foot within the red pill community and go honest/poly like we did. Until then though, I welcome their one foot, while you, like an idealist, condemn it. I think you’re too harsh and impractical considering real world realities!

  155. @ Jack

    Since you were a Catholic girl all your life, I’ll forgive you for thinking this is pure fantasy. You’d be shocked.

    That’s reasonable. Said I was raised Catholic. Dogma is one of my all time favorite movies with the Buddy Jesus. When I said men secretly want, it was my delicate way of saying I KNEW that to be true. But you and I are adults, Jack so I will. I’ve known men who have fucked both the mom and daughter. So, I know those “fantasies” happen IRL. Go FOR IT! Or fucking use them as fantasies to fuel your dreams, I don’t care.

    So you’re saying I embrace “victim culture?” No one who embraces that would ever say the things I have said, like “success is the best form of revenge.”

    I didn’t say that. I was trying to figure out whether you were rejecting victimhood culture OR if you were raised in a culture where single mothers abound. You said it was neither it was the laws. I’m cool with that.

    It seems like you threw all these sly rich and gold digger comments at me, I didn’t catch them. I got my first job at 12 and was honorably discharged from our military. If following “The Rules” for a few years and just wanting to get better with my relationships with men, makes you view me as a reformed entitled rich gold digging bitch?

    That’s your opinion, you’re entitled to it and its the bigger reason I signed up to serve.

    You are welcome to behave and believe whatever you like, as long as you don’t infringe upon my rights.

    As a young girl I used to get so excited watching C-Span. I really thought our country was great. After going after the American Dream for years I’ve come to realize that what Tyler Durden says in “Fight Club” is true… “I see in the fight club the strongest and smartest men who’ve ever lived. I see all this potential and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables, slaves with white collars, advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don’t need. We’re the middle children of the history man, no purpose or place, we have no Great war, no Great depression, our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives, we’ve been all raised by television to believe that one day we’d all be millionaires and movie gods and rock stars, but we won’t and we’re slowly learning that fact. and we’re very very pissed off.”

     

     

     

  156. Blackdragon, I’ve been enjoying your blog for a while, though this is my first time commenting
    I’m interested how you go about gaming these older women from your social circle.
    Do you invite them for drinks and follow the model for online dating, with sex talk etc..
    Or invite them over directly
    And do you worry about the kind of reputation that will give you
    Perhaps something to address on part 2

    EDIT: I’ve tried sex talk with women I met through day game and the results are poor, never hear from them again
    Regards

  157. @ James – They’re good questions and I’ll be addressing all of those points in part 2.

  158. Jack if you cheat it is not mono anymore. So why call it mono? It is simply a dysfunctional relationship whether the other person knows about the cheating or not.

    No it is not the 2nd best solution in fact i consider hiding about what you want from life the worst solution. I also consider hiding very beta. Even though alphas mostly do it, the moment they cared about how the wife will react about it and are scared about it, shows their betaization. If you don’t like mono then leave and find another woman to bang. Otherwise stay mono and don’t excuse yourself about the hell you are going through. It is pathetic and if you cheat makes it even more pathetic. Also it is very stupid because if the wife finds out about it she is going to have an easy ride against you in court. Divorce and then do whatever the hell you want. That is the best advice i would give to blue pillers and i will tell them to avoid cheating at all costs. They can learn without the cheating.

  159. Heyhey – alright, we’ll agree to disagree.

    By the way, all that stuff you said about how lying and hiding from women is beta, etc… is one of the reasons I abandoned cheating and embraced the honest/open lifestyle. So in one way, I agree with what you’re saying. Poly is so much better than cheating. I just have compassion for the cheaters because I see them as taking their first steps towards awakening. I have way less compassion for blue pill mono drones.

    But whatever, I’ll respect your different view.

  160. I didn’t say that. I was trying to figure out whether you were rejecting victimhood culture OR if you were raised in a culture where single mothers abound. You said it was neither it was the laws. I’m cool with that.

    It’s partially the laws, yes. Another part is my moral objection to raising, and taking responsibility for, another man’s kids, as distinguished from simply mentoring them or offering them good advice once in a while.

  161. @ Jack

    Another part is my moral objection to raising, and taking responsibility for, another man’s kids, as distinguished from simply mentoring them or offering them good advice once in a while.

    Because of how I was raised, I have a blindside when it comes to positive male role models and children. Your “No self respecting….” statement caught my eye.

    I love your passion and while you may not appreciate the same in me, I also appreciate how you engaged.

    In Spy Games, Robert Redford comments on how Brad Pitt’s character is when he meets him. “He came across as an idealist. You know, a little attitude. Starts out trying to see what he’s made of. Ends up disliking the view.” That’s referring to me, btw, just replace “he” with “she”.

    I found myself here about 6 months ago, after a spectacular break up. The first thing I noticed was how hilarious the guy and lion picture is for “There’s No Such Thing as a Submissive Alpha Male”.

    I really love men and I wanted to have better relationships, so I kept reading.

    I didn’t like the view, so I kept reading.

    Thank you for the discourse, I found it invigorating. If you and I kept going, I’m sure we could have offended more people. 😉

  162. Boy did this thread get derailed. So BD, I know I didn’t personally ask you this question before in this thread, but  (IMO) in the end is it possible for a 33+ to be an mltr/fb assuming one is willing to put in the time, money and dates to have sex.

  163. I know I didn’t personally ask you this question before in this thread, but  (IMO) in the end is it possible for a 33+ to be an mltr/fb assuming one is willing to put in the time, money and dates to have sex.

    Of course. I do it all the time. I have one right now.

  164. Apologies for being re-dumb-nant, but you only do it with women from social circle IIRC. The only reason you don’t do it with new 33+ women from online is because you value your time and are “cheap” correct?

  165. Interesting discussion.  A bit off topic but so important.  I swear @KrytopKate is BD’s alter ego – just him posting under a female persona.  haha.  Even if it is, she speaks the truth.  I wish this relentless pragmatism was more accepted.  The truth is scary though.

    Nobody wants to work for it.  If you want highly sexual women who are really into you, you have to work your ass off for it.  You have to increase your SMV to the highest you personally can and become a goal to them.  That’s how their sexuality works.  Then you need to follow a system like BDs so that they REMAIN interested in you for as long as possible.  Or, you settle down, become lazy and accept the consequences.  Some are fine with it, some want more.  That’s all there is to it.

    As for over 30 women,as you can see, if you become the goal, all of their rules will go out the window.  Even @Lovergirl admits it.  When the right guy comes along, sex happens, it happens fast, and it’s probably uninhibited.  If she’s inhibited with you and made you wait, there’s a reason, and it probably starts with you.  It’s something you’re doing.  I think every guy knows this in their gut, but ignores it due to societal pressures.  They know when they are being settled for.  They know when the girl isn’t really into them.  They probably even know on some level that she will quickly taper off the sex if he gets monogamous, but they plow ahead anyway and cry about it later.  The great irony I guess as BD points out, is that the standard you have to pass for these older women to throw out all of their ASD, increases exponentially.

    Reality ain’t pretty all the time.  You can be the most interesting man in the world and she will STILL be sick of you when you commit to only her.  It’s just life.  Plan your life accordingly.

     

  166. The only reason you don’t do it with new 33+ women from online is because you value your time and are “cheap” correct?

    Correct. I like first-time sex within 3-4 hours of face time, maximum. I think that’s fair for both parties. If I have to wait longer than that, it’s not a win-win interaction any more, it’s a woman-is-boss-man-is-bitch scenario.

    I swear @KrytopKate is BD’s alter ego – just him posting under a female persona.

    Except that Kate likes monogamy. Yuck.

  167. I am 53, recently divorced after 30 years of marriage (first 10 were good enough, the rest were hell, I stayed in it for all the wrong reasons), I have my Alpha 2.0 finances pretty much set (location independent, over $50K per year, re-makable if anything goes wrong), I have quite a few Alpha 2.0 traits that I have developed over the years (working out regularly, not over-weight, outcome independent, etc), long before I read The Book, and over-all I consider myself on the right path to Alpha 2.0.

    Still, the Women area is a bit puzzeled for me.

    Naturally, after 30 years in “the prison”, I have lost all practice in meeting/dating/bedding women, and I am starting now in small baby-steps, yet the girls age issue bothers me.

    How could I, at the age of 53, expect young girls to even consider wanting anything to do with me, 20-30 years older? THIS much of age-gap seems to me almost impossible to close…

    Any thought on this aspect?

  168. OMFG!  Do I really have to explain this AGAIN?!  I never said or meant that younger women are morons.  I said that older women are smartER.  SmartER in the ways of men, because we have been there, did that, enough times to see the patterns.  Got it yet?  Women get smartER as they gain more experience and learn how men work.  We become less likely to fall for their tricks and games and to put up with bullshit.  We wise up, and of course you all don’t like it because you can’t get away with what you do with younger women.

    I just gave you a recent, real-world example of two 18 year olds who completely contradict your statement.  Not only are they fully aware of how male/female seduction works, but they completely dominate their male peers in this arena.

    The world has changed since you were 18.

    Tricks/games/bullshit?  There’s something seriously wrong with your world perspective.  I’m not here for that shit and I doubt many of us are.  I’m here because I’m done with the status quo.  I want long-term, deep relationships that don’t succumb to the usual boredom/drama.  And the tools used to achieve that are things all men should strive for:  Have goals in life.  Commit to your goals.  Offer value in your surrounding environment.  Take responsibility in your relationships.  Be honest with yourself and others.

    And to you, this is all games and tricks?  Are we even reading the same blog?

  169. Except that Kate likes monogamy. Yuck.

    She does? I totally missed that! On GWG, she says women should dispense with their desire for “relationships” and “use men for sex right back.” I never saw anything pro-mono in her writings.

  170. Then you missed one of my most famous posts, where Krytokate talks about how much she loves serial monogamy:

    No, I didn’t miss that! I interpreted it as “this is the woman she used to be.” But even she said in one of the comments there that she is trying to “transition” into being a 2.0 herself. I’d be shocked if she’s still into monogamy now.

     

  171. I think that’s wishful thinking on your part. I’m not 100% but I’m pretty sure she’s still doing the short term monogamy thing and she’s not poly. I can’t speak for her though.

  172. Great article and spot on in terms of describing these types of women. I’m 44 and have extensively attempted to date this age group of women and have run into ALL of the same issues.  I keep checking for part 2 to be posted but so far nothing yet.  Don’t leave us hanging BD!

  173. I don’t know if you’re still tracking these comments, but is is possible for an older guy to play the good looking loser? I couldn’t get to 25 dates, or even 2.5, with high quality older women who see me as a Provider. I have a great job but heavy baggage in terms of finances, and am unwilling to have anything to do with kids. I’m also well educated, witty & intelligent, and in damn good shape. I live in a small apartment and drive a beater. I’m Mr. Right Now. I mean, I should go for the non-needy non-creepy older guy with younger women vibe first (while I can) because I’ve had 4.5 years of practice, but there has to be a way to thread the needle with older women.

  174. I don’t know if you’re still tracking these comments, but is is possible for an older guy to play the good looking loser?

    I’m sure it’s possible, but I’ve never seen nor even heard of a any guy over the age of about 35 do this with reliable, repeatable results. (I’ve see guys over 35 try this and get lucky two or three times out of many attempts, but those aren’t reliable, repeatable results.)

  175. Fair enough. I’ll put some thought into the frame, and if I have any luck I’ll let you know. I got my professional pics coming in by the end of the week, and will be opening younger than 30 at first, so it will be a while. Many around here even have 44 in their age ranges. Denver used to be “Menver” but evidently the growth of the area has made it a better market for men than it has been in a long time.

  176. I have it sorted out. However, it would not be a repeatable, reliable system….at least we would both hope not, because we would both counsel men to not make the mistakes I made. It’s important to be both good looking and a loser.

    Screening would be essential. Probably 60% to 80% of women our age on OKC would lock down the Beta Provider I once was in a heartbeat……I’ve walked the edge of that cliff. However…take one woman I saw there. 39 y/o, hot, lawyer, might want kids. I could land a date with her but she would categorize me fast and frankly she’s out of my league marriage wise (not that I want marriage). However, if I “Just want to date and don’t expect exclusivity” it might be a good deal for her.

    I’m guessing it would quadruple the number of first dates required, but fourth dates without sex are completely out of the question, hell third dates without sex are pushing it. I’m way more scared of a fifth date with the same woman without sex (when I would be having all my levers pulled to make me “accept” my Provider self) than five dates with five different women.

    Leaving this here for posterity. I’ll focus on younger women first. I’ll admit that I see this as a bit of a challenge, but I’m going to focus on the young ones before I catch up with their fathers age wise.

  177. Hey BD why do you have to have a full head of hair if your a older guy What’s wrong with a attractive plus size woman We all come in different shapes and sizes Don’t you think your being a bit shallow I guess its each to there own Besides I don’t think all alpha males are built like Mack Trucks !!! Cheers

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