first date advice, first online date, online dating advice, meaning of an open relationship, alpha male traits

I have an acquaintance whom I’ll call Ronnie. Ronnie is a very interesting, very unusual type of man. These particular creatures are not very common, but if you meet enough people you’ll run into these types of guys. See if any of this sounds familiar…

Ronnie is in his mid 20s and is extremely extroverted. He’s chubby, ugly, and awkward looking. Despite this, he dresses in style and he’s constantly going out to parties, bars and dance clubs. He is always hanging out with super-hot girls. His Facebook page makes him look like some kind of super-player. It’s jam-packed full of pictures of him with very attractive women, way beyond his appearance level. If you met him at a party or saw his Facebook page without really knowing him, you’d figure he’s either a rich guy making it rain $100 bills on girls to hang out with him, or the luckiest man on Earth, or an extremely skilled player who’s able to game women despite his crappy appearance.

There’s just one catch. Despite all of this, Ronnie is a beta. He never sexually escalates on any of these women. “That wouldn’t be nice,” he says. He never has sex with any of these women. Occasionally, some of these women get drunk and throw themselves at him, and he politely and nervously declines their advances.

Sometimes he’ll get oneitis for one particular pretty girl he hangs out with and he’ll float around in tortured, platonic friend zone with her for months, if not years.

Just imagine spending most of your spare time partying with super hot girls and not having sex with any of them. Ronnie must have the bluest balls in the universe. I honestly can’t even imagine such an existence.

Very unlike most betas, Ronnie has more than enough confidence to talk to pretty girls he doesn’t know or just met. He’s charismatic and friendly. These swarms of hotties like to hang out with Ronnie and will often text him to hang out, platonically, of course. Ronnie is only too happy to oblige.

If you met Ronnie at a party knowing nothing else about him, you would swear he’s an Alpha. Seriously, you would. He appears confident and masculine. But when it gets down to it, he’s as beta as they come.

Once or twice, Ronnie has actually been able to snag one of these girls. Usually, it’s because a girl is going through a really bad breakup or needs money. Per the beta male playbook, Ronnie will instantly go monogamous, immediately move her into his home, brag about his new girlfriend to everyone on Facebook, and shower her with money, support, and/or gifts. He might even end up going so far as to co-sign a car loan with her or borrow money on his credit cards to buy her fake boobs.

Again, if you didn’t know any of this background and just saw this fat guy who is not rich, but has a super-hot girlfriend, you’d think this guy was the shit.

Invariably, after cheating on Ronnie left and right, this girl dumps his beta ass as soon as she squeezes enough money out of him. Ronnie gets depressed, but is soon back hanging out with tons of hot girls that he never has sex with and back to posting pictures of it all on Facebook and Instagram.

Perhaps you know a guy or two like Ronnie. I almost want to call these guys “faux Alphas” or something like that, but since they’re not really Alphas, that would be misleading. I also believe that a normal beta with a monogamous wife/GF would be less unhappy less often than one of these pretend-Alphas, since at least the normal beta is A) getting laid at least sometimes and B) has some semblance of what he wants. This is despite the fact that the ‘Ronnies’ of the world appear to be very happy.

Based on the number of guys who read this blog, the odds are that many of you are a Ronnie. If this sounds like you, let me tell you something.

The incredible irony of all this is that if Ronnie just cranked up his confidence just two notches and learned some game, he would be having sex with more hot women than even guys at my level. Seriously, he would put me to shame if he was having sex with even one-third of the girls he usually hangs out with. He has the kind of filled-to-the-rim-with-gorgeous-babes social circle that I will never have, and that most guys could only dream about. Yet, he’s such a Nice Guy™ that he doesn’t utilize any of this to give him the sex that, as a man, he strongly needs and desires.

Isn’t that amazing?

36 Comments on “Betas Who Pretend to Be Alphas

  1. Hey BD,

    Been reading your blog a lot lately. Just found it a couple of weeks ago, so doing some catch-up. I’m a 44 year old man with the benefit of being in shape and looking and feeling like I’m still in my early 30’s. I have a gut instinct that tells me my best years are yet to come. Thanks for your insights!

    Simple, just call this type of guy the Alpha Beta.

  2. Do you think there’s also a female equivalent of this? Generally over 30, constantly posting about her “fabulous” life, her travels, checking in at fancy restaurants, going on lots of first dates….  These women are incredibly unhappy and can’t form any long term connections although they give the appearance of living a great life.  I’ve worked with many of these women in good old corp america.

  3. Why are you picking on Psy?

    Haha! Actually I was thinking more Neil Strauss or Justin Timberlake. 🙂

    Do you think there’s also a female equivalent of this? Generally over 30, constantly posting about her “fabulous” life, her travels, checking in at fancy restaurants, going on lots of first dates….  These women are incredibly unhappy and can’t form any long term connections although they give the appearance of living a great life.

    I know exactly the type of women you’re talking about and I’ve been on many first dates with these types of women. Not sure if it’s a female equivalent to what I’m talking about (women aren’t generally needy like men are), but you nailed the description perfectly. Well done.

  4. @epi lmfoa

    @bd Justin timberlake or Neil Strauss?? Are you high?! You do realize they fuck 10s whenever they like- and could even though they got hitched.

    But really I love this article bc you described a friend of mine EXACTLY. Right down to the Facebook posts haha.

  5. I’m in my early 20’s, so I see this kind of thing everywhere. I know dozens of “Alpha” guys, who exhibit all the winning traits and have all the female attention, yet still spend all day on Tinder or have deep-beta oneitis.

    I’m thinking something along the lines of “Master Beta” – obvious wordplay which indicates that they’re close to Alpha, but still so beta they go home alone at the end of the night.

    I also like the idea of “Beta Nucleus”, as opposed to a “Beta orbiter”. This would be a Beta with sufficient Alpha tendencies to have girls in his orbit, but not enough Alpha tendencies to be sleeping with them.

    At the end of the day, it needs to convey both the shame of their beta tendencies and their proximity to the better path.

  6. I want to ask you to write an article about “Alpha 1.0s who pretend to be betas”, but reading it would probably make me cry.

  7. bd Justin timberlake or Neil Strauss?? Are you high?! You do realize they fuck 10s whenever they like- and could even though they got hitched.

    That doesn’t mean they’re not betas. Neil Struass is a HUGE beta whenever he gets into a relationship. He’s admitted this in interviews, so it’s not me saying it. Read his book “Emergency” and you’ll see how much of a beta he is whenever he has a girlfriend or wife, which is all the time . He just fucking published an entire book on how bad it is to be a PUA.

    Ugh, don’t get me started on Neil Struass…I’ve tried to be nice to the guy and remain silent about this but I’m going to be writing a huge article about him and various other PUA/manosphere individuals who have gone blue pill.

    Anyway, David Spade is another example of a confident beta who gets laid a lot but is still a hardcore beta at heart. If I really thought about it I’m sure I could come up with more names.

    I’m thinking something along the lines of “Master Beta”

    Yeah, we have a winner. Master Beta it is.

    I want to ask you to write an article about “Alpha 1.0s who pretend to be betas”, but reading it would probably make me cry.

    It’s worse than you think.

    Most Alpha 1.0s don’t pretend to be betas, they eventually become betas.

  8. I used to be a lot like that when I was younger, except I looked good enough to get girls interested just on appearance alone, and I was much more introverted.  I didn’t do well in high school, but summer camp was my pussy playground.  I did so many things right.  Dragging the hot big titty girl in the white bathing suit into the 40-degree water brings a smile to my face.  She was pissed, in that way I now know leads to parting of labial petals if you play it right.

    I had girls fighting over me, literally, until they finally figured out I was just a good looking eunuch.  Then I had to console all these girls after they had been used as cum dumps by alphas, and still I didn’t figure out that the way to fuck them was to be like those guys.  I didn’t accept that until I was 40 years old.

    I have made a lot of progress within my marriage, but even though I am in a position such that I could totally have fuck buddies on the side, I am unable to acquire those fuck buddies.  The price I have to pay to make forward progress on my anxiety issues is very high.  I have been on the brink of suicide several times, and I almost caused a serious industrial accident, because my head wasn’t on my job.

    It is what it is.  Magic internet blogs do not an alpha make, although I am sure they are very lucrative revenue generating machines.  If I had fewer scruples, I would just lie about my experience and start marketing this stuff myself.  (No insinuation implied.  Merely that in my case I would have to lie my ass off to claim to be successful with women.)

  9. “The incredible irony of all this is that if Ronnie just cranked up his confidence just two notches and learned some game, he would be having sex with more hot women than even guys at my level. Seriously, he would put me to shame if he was having sex with even one-third of the girls he usually hangs out with. He has the kind of filled-to-the-rim-with-gorgeous-babes social circle that I will never have, and that most guys could only dream about. Yet, he’s such a Nice Guy™ that he doesn’t utilize any of this to give him the sex that, as a man, he strongly needs and desires.”

    Nah, the moment he (hypothetically) does that shit, awakens his inner sexual predator, he would instantly lose that circle. The primary reason he holds that circle is because they see him as one of the girls lmao. As you said

    “These swarms of hotties like to hang out with Ronnie and will often text him to hang out, platonically, of course.”

    But this brings me to think about dating people who know each other in general. I think that’s a terrible position to put oneself in. Let’s say between two friends even, that both like you, one is gonna get butt hurt whether they admit it or not. And if and when the relationship with the first girl you chose dries up, and if you were to get with the other friend, the original first girl is gonna be butt hurt whether she admits it or not.

    My point is, going after girls that know each other increases probabilities for drama. I extend this to women you know in the places you frequent. For example, I don’t do anything with my yoga or class instructors, even when they actively hit on me in the middle of class. Cashier girls, neighbors or any of that shit. No no no no no. Especially with classes, I don’t want to have to drive further away for another one and find another one if something happens.

    “He has the kind of filled-to-the-rim-with-gorgeous-babes social circle that I will never have…”

    I honestly think this is a great place to be. But I’m extremely introverted and don’t care about having a social circle. I don’t even use Facebook, MySpace, etc.

    Being able to “target” almost like a sniper and just drawing from online dating pools and escort services more than suffices. Not to mention keeping things more private. Not having social media makes it so much easier to answer questions congruently, or just not have them come up, like the Facebook relationship status dilemma, or if she ever complains, they don’t know who the fuck she’s talking about, because I also don’t like taking pictures, which is also congruent.

    I don’t envy that “showy social proof hot girls around me lifestyle.”

    But yeah, a lot of guys do.

  10. I have a coworker who matches BD’s exact description of “Ronnie.”  He’s rather chubby and not good looking, but he’s very extroverted and charismatic.  Most of the women at work constantly stop by his desk to chat yet avoid most other men.  He is constantly showing me pictures of himself with hotties every week when he goes out partying. Nevertheless, I have never seen him with a girlfriend or even heard that he has one in nearly two years.

    He tells me of his past girlfriends and how they always want to have sex all the time.  He reminisces of all the times he has spent the night with female friends after partying yet no sex is ever involved.  One story he relayed stuck in my mind.  One of his “girlfriends” was tired after going out for the night with him and his hot friends and decided to sleep over at his place. She showered at his place with the door purposely wide open. She even climbed into bed with him sans clothes. She even cuddled up to him in his bed, yet he tells me that nothing sexual ever happened.

    He says he is considered “safe” when it comes to hanging out with girlfriends, especially with ones who are either currently married or have boyfriends. Hell, even the girls’ boyfriends and husbands consider him “safe” for their party whores to be with him alone. He says these hot girls are just friends and that he sees them as “dudes” and can’t ever picture banging them.

    Is he secretly gay?  Am I missing something here? I’d love to have his personality and traits in order to increase my hottie social “orbit” as one poster mentioned in here. I don’t understand these guys. Are they latent homosexuals or just very nice AFC’s? I’m sure “Master Beta” would be the correct moniker for them, because that’s what they’d usually resort to at home after a night on the town with all these hotties flirting and clinging to them all night long.

    My curiosity got the better of me, and I started to secretly eavesdrop on his conversations with the women at work. It was not a pretty discovery. He would listen intently to all the sorry ass female drama stories from these women that would make most men cringe if they were ever within earshot of such shit. Everything from troubles with ex-boyfriends to lazy ass beta husbands and ungrateful kids.

    Is this what men need to do in order to increase our hot pussy social circle? Geezus H. Christ, I’d rather go “Gay” then have to listen to that kind of shit all day long just to hang out with a lot of hot chicks.

    Okay, going “Gay” was a bit extreme, but you get what I mean. I wish there was a book about how to not put up with female drama and bullshit yet increase one’s hot pussy orbit. I’d buy that book in a second. [Plug your books here, BD].  Haha.

     

  11. “He says these hot girls are just friends and that he sees them as “dudes” and can’t ever picture banging them…

    …He would listen intently to all the sorry ass female drama stories from these women that would make most men cringe.”

    This archetypal Ronnie is actually the most entrenched in searching for the “perfect” girl.

    “Master Beta” is perfectly fitting. Absolutely in love with the Disney fantasy. He doesn’t go for the hot girls because he knows how they are. He compares them to the “perfect” woman.

    In terms of sex and relationships. He is the most “brainwashed,” and on some level knows this, and goes out of his way to hide it. He is embarrassed by it.

    “Sometimes he’ll get oneitis for one particular pretty girl he hangs out with.” -BD

    And

    “Ronnie will instantly go monogamous” -BD

    Key word being instantly. Even if it’s not with that pretty girl.

  12. Nah, the moment he (hypothetically) does that shit, awakens his inner sexual predator, he would instantly lose that circle. The primary reason he holds that circle is because they see him as one of the girls lmao.

    Not exactly. He won’t be able to hang out with all those girls in complete girl-safety, that’s true. But he would get laid. A lot. I’ve seen guys who are really good at social circle game, and it works. (It’s not my thing at all, but it works for those guys who work it.)

    But this brings me to think about dating people who know each other in general. I think that’s a terrible position to put oneself in

    Yes, I agree 100%. I get tons of email from guys who have FBs or MLTRs in the same social circle and they have all these problems. I never date anyone in my social circles like that and never have an issue.

    But again, I will say that for social circle guys who don’t mind the drama, it “works” for them.

    He tells me of his past girlfriends and how they always want to have sex all the time.

    Wow, that’s a very good point and one I didn’t bring up. Yes, these Master Betas tend to really like pretty girls like any other guy but often have lower sex drives. That explains of lot of their behavior. Great observation!

    And no, I don’t think they’re gay. I think they are high-validation, high-social, low-sex drive men.

    Is this what men need to do in order to increase our hot pussy social circle?

    Haha. Social circle game is an entire science on its own. I am certainly not the expert on it.

  13. @bd

    Your response made me think about something you should include in that upcoming post you mentioned. Beta’s like Strauss, that have extreme game. That’s a thing. I have yet another friend who embodies that. His game is great, and personality is very beta. I just accept it as such but I would like to see you expound upon the idea.

  14. Neil is an usual case. He’s Alpha, or very Alpha like, but only when he’s not in a relationship. When he’s in a relationship he’s beta as fuck. Also, he hates being single, so he’s always in a relationship (he’s a serial monogamist).

    Is that Alpha or beta? It’s beta. Like you said, a “beta with game.” It’s an unusual category, and pretty rare.

  15. Hey BD

    great post !!!

    My  younger brother, Dave, (sadly, deceased 1997) was like a Ronnie With Game…he was socially extroverted, loud, cocky and funny…he ALWAYS had a funny, smart ass comeback for anything that anyone (man or woman) said to him, and would have people pissing themselves laughing…(I am struck by how similar this is to the funny comebacks a stand-up comedian uses to put-down hecklers..)

    BUT he also had Game and knew how to escalate and close the deal… he devoured more pussy than I have ever had hot breakfasts…all through Social circle…fucking unbelievable… I never saw him cold approach a woman…

    and this was during the 80’s and 90’s… before “game” or “dating techniques” or “PUAs” had even been identified and documented, and taught…in retrospect, I can see that he was a Natural…

    I have fair, not great, but fair Game…but not the Social skills and persona of a Ronnie…so…

    Do you think it is possible to “learn” to develop the Social skills and social persona of Ronnie / Dave?

    I’m not suggesting to learn to “pretend” to be someone that you are not, but if you think you have the potential for it within you but just lack the confidence, and development of that side of your character and social skills?

    I know you say this is not your thing, but what advice would you give as to where someone could look to start to learn or develop this side of their persona and Social skills to add to their game?

    Thanks for all you do

  16. “This archetypal Ronnie is actually the most entrenched in searching for the ‘perfect’ girl.”

    “In terms of sex and relationships. He is the most ‘brainwashed,’ and on some level knows this, and goes out of his way to hide it. He is embarrassed by it.”

    Wow. Great observations, Maximus.

    I completely forgot to mention these additional characteristics in my chubby, fugly, yet lucky, coworker. He has so many hangups about what his “perfect” girl should be both physically and mentally. Even the slightest physical imperfection in a girl (e.g., stubbly armpits or messy clothes or unclean appearance) will make him go Master Beta at home alone.  This is quite funny, since he suffers from Parcopresis (inability to defecate when other people are perceived or likely to be around (e.g. in the same public toilet, house or building), yet he won’t approach or hook up with any slightly imperfect (in his eyes) girl.

    He brags about his Alpha Game and all the hotties he hangs out with, yet I do believe he is very “brainwashed” when it comes to wanting the “perfect” girl and Disney relationship. I’m sure deep inside his chubby head that he knows this and is embarrassed by it, so he makes great effort to hide it by constantly bragging about how all the hotties only approach him instead of his male buddies when they go out. When a girl gives him her phone number, he says he passes it on to his male friends, because he’s not interested. She was either not “perfect” or, like BD says, he has a very low sex drive.

    Yet even with an endless supply of hot pussy continuously orbiting around him, the sad thing is…he still goes home alone.  Poor Master Beta.

     

  17. This post exemplifies what most extroverted betas experience with regards to women. Admittedly I can identify as one of these “chumps” that like being around women. I actually feel a “high” when I am around them, talking with them, listening to them, looking at them.

    If there was actually a way that I could have their companionship without paying for it I probably wouldn’t mind not having sex with them; their presence is so powerful, that it’s no wonder so many men are willing to do stupid things to have their company.

    Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, I am so cheap, lazy, and introverted that I resort to methods like BD’s instead of the traditional route. It scares me to think how I would be if I was extroverted and a spendthrift.

     

  18. Interesting. I honestly haven’t met many, if any, Ronnies.

    And I’m definitely not Ronnie. Not saying I’m alpha, I have a way to go (at least I’m doing some combat sports now).

    I have problems with women but hitting on them, frequently, with gusto is NOT one of them!

    Interesting ideas though. Do you actually know Neil or JT or David Spade? I mean they may be ‘betas’ but I think it’s hard to tell through the celebrity lens, isn’t it? To really know them without meeting them? Even Neil’s writing might be pandering BS to make some sales.

    I mean, I’m trying to figure out your point here. “Pretending to be alpha” — well sure, a LOT of guys do that. Go to any bar on a Friday night, lol.

    But these “Ronnies” at least have built a social network of very hot girls. I wish I could do the same.

  19. Lads – to be honest – if you’re not rich or not a tatooed steroid ridden thug, you have very little chance with even an ordinarily attractive bird -what’s this world coming to?!!!

  20. BD writes: “Most Alpha 1.0s don’t pretend to be betas, they eventually become betas.”

    This sounds unlikely to me. If you are an alpha inside, even if you go broke and get old you will still be an alpha at heart and act like one, even if your passive value is no longer that great.

    On the other hand a beta may learn to talk, dress and walk like an alpha – fake it until you make it you know. WHEN they made it (hot wife/gf) – they no longer fake it and show their true inner beta-self. This happens a lot more often than we realize.

  21. Alphas become betas because they think game stops at the dating phase of a relationship. Most guys who have missions only use them as a means to end to get oneitis for a *more valuable* girl. Most guys sever all meaning in their lives when they get a LTR/wife and naively put their life in cruise control. They fail to respect that The Game never dies.

  22. “He says these hot girls are just friends and that he sees them as ‘dudes’ and can’t ever picture banging them…”

    Hmmm… After reading that, he sounds as if he might be in the closet. The bragging about all the sex with his “ex-girlfriends” smells of insecurity.

    If I had a hot chick over at my place who purposely showered with the door wide open and then proceeded to get in bed with me, she would be banged all night long.

    He’s a blip on the “gaydar” of these hot chicks who are buzzing around him like fruit flies. Sounds like a hot gaggle of fag hags and flame dames in this dude’s gayborhood.

  23. Do you think it is possible to “learn” to develop the Social skills and social persona of Ronnie / Dave?

    Of course. Social skills are learnable. I’m an example of this.

    I know you say this is not your thing, but what advice would you give as to where someone could look to start to learn or develop this side of their persona and Social skills to add to their game?

    Start by reading these books:

    How To Win Friends and Influence People
    Confidence and Power In Dealing With People
    Lions Don’t Need To Roar

    Interesting ideas though. Do you actually know Neil or JT or David Spade? I mean they may be ‘betas’ but I think it’s hard to tell through the celebrity lens, isn’t it?

    Somewhat, but not if you watch tons and tons of interviews they do, plus read all the stuff they write, plus listen to their all of their stand-up comedy or speeches (which is what they write, from their life). Is it 100% accurate? Probably not. Is it a good general indicator? Yes.

    Even Neil’s writing might be pandering BS to make some sales.

    No. He’s not completely making up all of these negative, needy, drama experiences he’s had with girlfriends that he’s described in all his books AND speeches AND interviews, etc, etc.

    But these “Ronnies” at least have built a social network of very hot girls. I wish I could do the same.

    I would not want that if I wasn’t having sex with those girls. Here’s why:

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/04/02/how-women-view-friend-zone/

    BD, what are your thoughts on Promise Rings?

    It’s the same as my thoughts on any romantic gift, like engagement rings or whatever. If you’re in an OLTR and your frame is rock-solid and you’re doing everything right (not monogamous, etc), then they’re fine. If you’ve got a lot of beta or Alpha 1.0 in your relationship or your behaviors then they’re terrible.

    It’s not about the ring at all. It’s about you and what you’re doing right or wrong in the relationship.

    This sounds unlikely to me.

    It’s not only likely, it’s the norm. Most Alpha Male 1.0s at some point in their lifetimes surrender to monogamy, get married, get betaized by the wife, and suffer a huge drop in testosterone. They become betas. (It happened to my dad, but I could list tons of other examples.)

    There are a few 1.0s who avoid this all the way into their very old age, but they are rare these days.

  24. “Ronnie” is me.

    (although I’m not ugly, or fat, or in the US).

    Or rather I used to be that guy. I ceased having that kind of circles a few years ago. I was running out of the time and energy necessary to support a rich social life.

    It’s all too easy being confident and alphalike as long as you’re doing the things you have the skills and know-how for. But to escalate, to take a girl to bed, those things I never learned how to do. So I would instantly turn into an awkward kind of creep if I tried.

    It was funny how people who didn’t know me too well sometimes assumed I must be some kind of uber-womanizer. And sometimes girls threw themselves at me, only to change their mind when they figured out I wasn’t the smooth, experienced player they hoped for.

  25. Obviously I mean that I’m similar to Ronnie, not literally the exact Ronnie Blackdragon is acquainted with.

  26. what do you think about this blog post?

    The guy needs to buy my open relationships book because he’s doing it completely wrong. He’s essentially trying to have three LTRs/OLTRs at once, and yeah, that would be a complete nightmare. He needs 1-2 MLTRs and 1-2 FBs instead.

  27. I think this type of guys are much more common. Most guys involved with PUA  lifestyle fit that description, in particular those who are into RSD stuff.
    Getting laid is less glamorous than these PUAs make it seem with their field reports. It all comes down to some fundamental truths, that if practiced can give you consistent results. Things like, looks, basic social IQ, escalation, logistics, closing.

    Most of these kids who follow PUA teaching consider it a success making girls laugh and acting like a clown at the club. All they’re doing is just entertain them for a while and at the end of the night those girls go home to fuck their FBs, the real Alphas. I’ve been myself of those guys fucking my FBs after 2am when we both come back from partying.

    One of the fundamental problems of US culture I’ve come to understand is that, because of the rapid social changes, people have had to develop high level of social skills that over time have created a huge gap between public and private life, so much that people have lost sight of those fundamental truths.
    Don’t get me wrong, I truly appreciate the value of what I’ve learned from this culture, social skills that apply to women, but carry over to every other area of my life. But I try to keep it simple and efficient when it comes to getting laid.

    Most Alpha Male 1.0s at some point in their lifetimes surrender to monogamy, get married, get betaized by the wife, and suffer a huge drop in testosterone. They become betas.

    I have this theory about LTR betaization of men: When a man enters monogamy, it takes away most of his time, thus he drops some of his male friendships, and time spent in male only spaces. The lack of male activities and male presence in his life, causes a drop on his testosterone. No male circle=no challenges = reduction of testosterone. On top of that, sharing activities with their woman, causes her to subconsciously see him as one of the “girls”/less Alpha. Alphaness/Masculinity comes down to “Use it or lose it”
    Writing these thoughts makes me think about my native culture, where men frown upon other men who perform activities, that are deemed feminine. I guess that is an instinct

     

  28. I think there’s some overthinking here.

    Ronnie is probably just a guy with a personality type that gets along better with women than men. They exist. I have at least five very close male friends like this, all straight. They all have other men they’re friendly with, but they’re truly close with women. They have circles of women friends who they text with a ton, chat on the phone, do social things with all the time, sleep at their houses (non-sexually, etc.). I have male friends who stay the night in my bed if they’ve been drinking and can’t drive home and it is really not a big deal.

    Here’s the thing. How sexually attractive or not attractive these men are is entirely unrelated to the fact that they have a personality that just enjoys women as people and gets along with them better for companionship. Of my male friends that fit in that category of having mostly women friends, 1 of them is very attractive and sleeps with tons of chicks (and stays friends with them after). He’s a total slayer and has women in love with him and crying and fighting over him all the time. 2 are total dorks who are way too shy to make a move or escalate. 2 are average. Their “alphaness” or sexual attractiveness is really completely unrelated to how much their personality gets along with women. It’s not about sex. These guys tend to get along better with their daughters than their sons too, and better with their sisters than their brothers. It’s just a personality type.

    Guys who are more “guy guy” types simply don’t and can’t understand this because they don’t understand and like women on the same level. They want to fuck them but they don’t really LIKE THEM as people that much. Women don’t act naturally around them or let them in on their secrets or want them in their rituals. Women will take off their makeup and put on comfortable clothes and do things like shower and change around a guy that they can tell truly views them and likes them as a person. They’ll talk frankly and be themselves. They won’t do that around guys’ guys, regardless of whether he’s attractive or not.

    The same exists the other way around, btw. I get along better with guys than girls. Although I have female friends, I prefer men and find women to be often boring and annoying. And I have generally always been accepted by men and invited into their “men’s only” type spaces, because I just simply have a personality more like a guy and get along with them better. The guys at work often make jokes about me being the biggest man in the room when everyone else is a guy, and they definitely think I’m more brutally honest and less touchy feely. They also say things in front of me they won’t say in front of other women, similar to what I described in reverse above.

    But once again, this is just a personality type thing. It has nothing to do with how sexually attractive I am or what I look like and I’ve never had the slightest problem getting or keeping men. In  fact it’s only proven to be a huge advantage. I have other female friends like me that choose not to have such a feminine appearance and while they have tons of guy friends, they don’t get hit on as much. They’re unrelated factors.

    And yes, every single one of my male friends would sleep with me if I gave them the chance, but so what? They’re not going to. If I wanted to, we already would have. In some cases I have, and we’re still friends after doing that for a while. And if not, who cares? Sexual desire is a fact of life and not one that needs to be elevated as if it’s so important. I don’t see why sexual attraction should really impact a friendship if it’s based on other factors as well. Every single one of my female friends would also take money from me if I offered it. But again, I’m not going to offer so it doesn’t matter. Just because people might want money or sex from me if I offered it doesn’t mean they don’t also like my jokes, my thoughts, my companionship, etc.  I don’t know why people make a big deal about sexual attraction in a friendship. People have all kinds of wants and urges and desires that will mostly go unsatisfied and it’s not the end of the world.

    I have a theory that it’s only the psychologically androgynous men and women who really like each other and they’re the ones who are “best friends” as well as lovers in all their romantic relationships, and who typically stay close friends once they break up. People who have personality types that are more classically male or female will never experience that much harmony in a relationship and really they’re only coming together for sex but they don’t really understand or necessarily even enjoy each other that much.

    Masculine and feminine personality traits occur in overlapping bellcurves  between the genders and I’d estimate 30% of each gender is in the overlap part, another 30% is part in and part out, and the last third has no overlap and those are the men and women that really can’t stand each other but get together for sex/making family.  The 10% or so who don’t just overlap but have a personality that actually typifies the opposite sex will have MANY friendships and relationships and good relations with the opposite sex easily their whole life, and if they’re also sexually attractive they’ll get tons of ass. If they’re not attractive they’ll be like Ronnie.

  29. I also wanted to add that the opposite is true as well: guys that have very masculine guys-guy personalities also come in a whole variety of sexual attractiveness which seems to be entirely unrelated to how male or female their personality is. I know plenty of very “male” guys who only like guy things like football and hunting and fixing trucks and who have NO female friends…and most of them don’t get laid, some of them get laid a bit, and a few of them get laid all the time. Their sexual allure to women is unrelated to their masculine personality. A hot guy who’s quiet and into trucks will get a girl off on how sexy and masculine he is. An unattractive guy who’s quiet and into trucks will not attract her notice at all. A hot guy who’s into reality TV and sushi and costume parties and all-night texting will have a girl madly in love. And an unattractive guy who’s into all those same things will have a million girl “friends” but won’t get laid.

    Same with the chicks I know. How girly and feminine they are in personality really doesn’t seem to have much to do with how sexually attractive they are to men. I have a super girly friend who literally never even wears pants she’s so feminine, and I’ve never seen a man who was attracted to her. I have another like that who sleeps with tons of guys.

    I don’t think how androgynous or gender-typical your personality is has anything to do with initial sexual attraction. Not being too extreme in typifying your gender personality will usually help you KEEP relationships because the opposite sex will relate to you better and like you as a person. But if they’re not attracted, that won’t matter because you won’t be offered a relationship in the first place. If Ronnie got in shape he’d probably get his dream girl.

    A lot of manosphere guys are kind of in denial about this because they want to think that the qualities THEY admire in men — masculine qualities — are what drop panties. And they also don’t like to admit that they are prone to falling in love with hot bitches with brassy non-feminine attitudes, because they want to think they prefer submissive, loyal, wifely good-girls. I have not found either of those things to be true in real life.

  30. Hey BD maybe the Ronnies of the world are gay Women like gay males They know all the trendy niteclubs parties plus they don’t hit on women hence the term fag hag women who have gay male friends !!!

  31. I worked with a guy once who might be a Ronnie, or maybe not.  You guys tell me.

     

    He was big and fat and mostly nerdy, but pretty cocky too.  And he made good money (more than most of us at the time) because he was a consultant.  We were at a group happy hour once and he kept bragging about his stripper “girlfriend”.  His home base was in another city, but he had just bought a home locally and was telling us how he could now stay around and “fuck his girlfriend on the weekends”.  I mean, he was saying this at a work function, hardly the place you’d bring up such talk.  Of course, the dumbass also mentioned one of his stripper gf’s coworkers had been partying at his place and stolen all his music CDs and CD player.  So, for all his gumption and money, he wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer.

    Thinking about it, perhaps this dude was less of a Ronnie but more of a sugar daddy type, even if he wasn’t that much older than these girls he hung out with.

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