This article originally started out as a few paragraphs in the upcoming post on Australia, but while writing it I realized it belonged as its own separate post and conversation.

A phenomenon on the internet I’ve seen for years is men who can’t get laid blaming it on their city rather than themselves. These guys sometimes sound convincing when they’re talking to A) a bunch of other guys who can’t get laid or B) a bunch of other guys in their own city or C) a bunch of other guys who are not very well-traveled and haven’t had a lot of exposure to other women in other cities.

I have traveled all over the world and have spent extensive time (as in a week or longer) in many different cities in many different countries. Moreover, as Blackdragon for the past several years, I have spoken with, communicated with, and emailed with literally thousands of men, living all over the world, on the topic of getting laid.

This means I have a lot more information regarding women in different cities as compared to the typical guy on the internet bitching about how much a certain city sucks. That doesn’t mean I know everything, or have absolute knowledge on every city in the world. Far from it. But it does mean that my data holds a lot more weight than your opinion, regardless of how strongly you feel about your option. I’m sorry, but that’s just the way it is.

Over the years I’ve encountered many examples of men who bitch that their city is difficult or “impossible,” and who are clearly and humorously wrong. I will give you just two of my recent favorites, but I could give you many more.

Example 1

Last time I checked, my return rate on my Blackdragon ebooks was around 3%, despite the fact I offer a lifetime money-back guarantee on all of them. This means about 33 men need to order an ebook from me for one of them to ask for a refund. As such, refund requests happen but are unusual.

One time, I had a guy return one of my ebooks (the online dating one I think) and ask for a refund, which he of course received. His reason for returning the ebook? “I live in Chicago, and your techniques will never work in Chicago. Maybe they work great where you live, but there’s no way they’ll work here.”

Notice his language of “they won’t work” instead of “I tried your techniques and they didn’t work.” He read the ebook and didn’t try anything because he was convinced Chicago was somehow too difficult as compared to other cities.

The problem?

1. I personally know at least 15 guys who have used, and are still using, my exact techniques to get laid in Chicago. Most of these guys are normal-looking guys who are not muscular or hot.

2. A few years ago when I did a Blackdragon Retreat in Chicago, one of the guys attending got laid that night by picking up a woman in the bar in the same hotel in which I gave the workshop. A second guy who went to the workshop, an average-looking beta who hadn’t had sex in over a year, got laid six days later. Using my techniques. In Chicago.

3. A few guys I’ve talked to, some of whom have commented on this very blog, “can’t wait” to move to Chicago because (according to them) it’s “easy” to fuck women there.

Yet this guy who returned the ebook was convinced that Chicago was some special, difficult exception to the rule.

Example 2

On a big PUA/manosphere web site I won’t mention, a guy was talking about how pickup, game, online dating, and a few other things were “almost impossible” in left-wing, feminist cities like Portland, Oregon. Women had too much ASD in these cities, he said, and all the hot girls only went after super-hot muscular Alphas.

It’s quite true that Portland is perhaps the third most left-wing, feminist city in North America (after Toronto and San Francisco). No question about that.

The problem? Um, I live in Portland area, and have my entire life, and I’ve been getting laid for years and years without any unusual problems while living here, having sex 3-4 hours meet-to-lay, using normal online dating, spending under $0-20 most of the time, including much younger women (18-22 year olds), including when I was 40 pounds heavier than I am now.

Moreover, I personally know a few other guys in Portland doing the same thing. Most of these guys are normal-looking dudes of all ages. I’m not the only one.

Yet there are all these guys saying getting laid in left-wing Portland is “impossible.”

Again, I could give you many more examples of this, but hopefully you get my point about how dumb these men are being.

Why This Happens

I’ve observed this for many years, and here’s how this delusion usually occurs:

1. A guy somewhere in the world has trouble getting laid, usually because either he acts too needy with women or because he doesn’t follow the correct techniques.

2. Unwilling to take responsibility for his failures, he tries to find other reasons to point to. “Women are bitchy in my city” or “women are too feminist in my city” tend to be the easiest ones, as well as conveniently congruent to a lot of manosphere messaging.

3. He cruises pickup and/or manosphere sites, looking for advice and/or wanting to complain. Thousands of other guys who also can’t get laid are doing the same thing, so he often sees other guys complain about their cities too, but he ignores these statements. His subconscious doesn’t even register them.

4. Eventually, he sees one or two other guys on a web site somewhere complaining about his city. Because angry guys everywhere are complaining about pretty much every major city, this is statistically bound to happen.

5. As soon as he sees these one or two other guys complaining about his city, he screams, “Ah HA! I KNEW IT!!! I’m doing everything right…the problem is MY CITY! All these other guys are saying the same thing! Finally!” Notice he says “all these other guys” when in my experience, he’s usually talking about literally one or two other guys he’s seen bitching on a web site somewhere (though sometimes more).

6. Thusly “validated,” he proceeds to lock in the belief that his city is “more difficult” or “impossible” because the “women here suck” and frowns the rest of his life. (Or in some more extreme cases, starts looking to move to another city to find his Unicorn Woman.)

7. As he’s saying this, many other guys, often men who are less good-looking and less Alpha than him, are putting in the time and effort and are fucking cute girls in his city left and right without a problem.

I’ve seen this process play out with men on the internet over and over again, and I’m sure I’ll continue to see it in the future.

You could literally pick any major Western city completely at random, and post on a forum or blog somewhere that “game doesn’t work in this city” or some such, and you’d have a few guys post right behind you that hell yes, you’re absolutely right, that it’s “impossible” to get laid in this random city. (Seriously. Pick a completely random city and try this on a PUA or manosphere web site, and you’ll see.)

But Aren’t Some Cities Harder Than Others?

At this point a few of you angry dudes are thinking:

Fuck you Blackdragon! I live in <city> and I know for a fucking fact that it’s harder to get laid here. It’s not just one or two guys who agree with me either! It’s tons of guys! Go look at this web site over here, they’re taking about it! Not all cities are the same, and for you to say they are is bullshit! You’re full of shit!!

Alright Mr. Angry, Let’s examine that question for a minute, because despite your shitty attitude, it’s a valid question to ask. Are some cities objectively harder than others in terms of getting fast, easy sex?

The answer is yes, and I’ve been saying that for many years. Is it easier to get laid in Rio than in New York City, provided all other factors remain equal? Yes, it is. New York is more difficult than Rio.

But wait, the conversation isn’t over. Does that mean it’s “impossible” to get laid on New York? Does that mean normal online game “doesn’t work” in New York? Does that mean older-guy, younger-women game is “impossible” there unless you pay the girls?

Of course not. I know plenty of guys who use normal online game, and with younger women, to get laid in NYC.

Saying NYC is harder than Rio is very different than saying you “can’t get laid” in NYC. The first statement is correct. The second statement is just stupid.

Are there a few Western cities in the world that are objectively and truly harder than others, in terms of getting to fast, easy sex?

Yes. I know for a fact that Toronto is a difficult city. I know for a fact that Copenhagen is a difficult city. Based on my data (and remember, I probably have a lot more data on this topic than you do), I’d say those are probably the two most difficult Western cities to get laid in quickly. I could be wrong, but that’s where the data is pointing.

So yes, I admit and openly state there are some difficult cities.

But again, am I going to say it’s “impossible” to get laid in Toronto or Copenhagen? That online dating “doesn’t work” in those cities? That you can only get laid there if you’re a young, super good-looking muscle freak?

Nope. Not only would that be stupid, but it would be inaccurate. Why? Because I know normal-looking guys who get laid in those cities. Granted, these guys do have to work harder and put in more numbers than a guy living in Orlando or San Diego, but they still get laid. They don’t sit around like some of you do, bitching on web sites about how it’s “impossible” to get laid in their town. While you’re bitching, they’re putting in the work and getting laid.

And let’s not forget my advice about moving. If you truly live in an objectively harder city, and getting laid is extremely important to you, then stop whining like a pussy, pack your shit, and MOVE. But I’ve already discussed that before.

This leads me to Australia, where I am now as I type these words. On this blog, and an a few other sites, you may have seen a few Australia-bitchers saying things like it’s “impossible” to get laid here (unless maybe you’re a young muscular Alpha), or that normal online game “doesn’t work” here, or that younger women won’t fuck older men here unless they’re paid, etc, etc.

Just like with the cases above, I know normal-looking guys in Sydney and Melbourne who are using all those techniques and getting laid right now. While some men are saying it’s impossible, other men are busy doing it.

I’ve spent a week in Australia already (Sydney and Melbourne), and I don’t find the women here radically different than other women in any other major Western city I’ve spent time in. Same ASD, same “strong independent woman” bullshit, but no more than most other cities. This is a ubiquitous Western thing, not an only-Australian thing. To think this is only in Australia is arrogant as it is stupid.

When I post about Australia later this week I’ll discuss a little more of that, but I promise you that if I lived here, or had more time here than just a week, I would get laid here no problem, with hot/young chicks, using all of my normal techniques.

Bullshit! Why don’t you fuck any women there right now then?!? Fucking prove it if you think it’s so easy!

Alright, challenge accepted, though it still won’t change your mind. Here’s what I hereby officially promise:

1. Some time in the next few years (and no, I can’t give you an exact date) I will spend 3-4 weeks in Australia, likely Sydney.

2. During that time, I will have sex with at least one, perhaps more than one much younger hot chick using normal online game (not Tinder and not sugar daddy sites, though I may still experiment with those as well) and I will do it without spending more than $30 meet-to-lay.

3. When I announce I’ve done this, it still won’t convince any of you Australia-bitchers, since you want this to be a problem. You want the excuse. You’ll come up with some crap about how it was only possible for me “because I’m Blackdragon” or “because I’m American” or some other excuse. Then you’ll continue to steam behind your keyboard (and not get laid).

In other words, the entire exercise will be useless. But I’ll do it anyway just to show everyone else how dumb you guys are being about this. Plus Sydney chicks are super hot, but I’ll discuss that on Thursday.

In review:

1. Yes, some cities are harder than others. You can still get laid in those cities as long as you put in the extra effort and numbers.

2. Saying that getting laid or a certain type of game is “impossible” in your city is stupid, and it makes you look stupid when you say it. Normal-looking guys right now are getting laid in your city, with cute girls, using the very methods you’re saying are “impossible.”

3. If you have some objective evidence (one or two other guys on the internet bitching about your city isn’t objective evidence) that your city is indeed harder than others, and getting laid is important to you, stop bitching and move somewhere else.

45 Comments on “Is It “Impossible” To Get Laid In Certain Cities?

  1. The Chicago example is funny, I’ve heard another coach tell a similar story. The coach asked “where do you live?”, thinking that if the client lives in Buttfuck, Arkansas, population 49, he may very well have a point. The answer was… Chicago. 😀

    What is the deal with Copenhagen that makes it more difficult?

    Also I’m curious about your experiences (if any) in Sweden. 🙂

  2. BD, you’re spot on as always sir!

    I live in São Paulo, Brazil. We have almost 12 million people over here. I personally know some guys who complain our chicks are bitchy, too hard to lay, and they cannot find a decent woman here LOL. They say Rio is better.

    On top of that, I know some guys from Rio who say girls there are bitchy and hard to lay. They say SP is easier to the average looking dude. Side note: I have no clue how a city where everybody is constantly worried about going to work and making money could have easier women than one of the most famous touristic spots of the world. Must be missing something.

    At the same time I just had a triple tinder date on Saturday where one of them was an stunning Paraguayan girl (classic curvy) who I’ll probably sleep with tomorrow (dinner at her place). And I’ve already slept with women from ages 18-43 this year alone (some guys like to use age as an excuse too). Almost forgot: all of them live on a 15km or less radius from my place (new curvy included).

    My god, all we guys who can pull that stuff must look like Chris Hemsworth, know some jedi mind tricks and have a golden dick inside our pants, LOL.

  3. When you date in foreign countries, do you mention that you’re only there temporarily in your profile? This is something I’m likely to do in the future and could make the case for either side.

  4. Australian (who gets laid) here. I agree with what you’re saying in that people will blame everything but themselves, but I’m glad you’ve raised the point that some cities are easier than others.

    It does make me wonder how many emails you’ve gotten from game-denialists.

    I’m glad you’re finding the women in Sydney no more or less difficult than in other western cities. I respect your opinion because its hard to judge your own country’s difficulty objectively (due to things like the ‘exotic foreigner’ effect). I know that when I take my accent on holiday I have a much easier time of it overseas.

    Looking forward to the next article.

     

  5. The issue I think is these guys are lazy or they just won’t admit they don’t like the women’s attitudes and therefore think the women are not worth the effort (not surprising due to extreme left wing views). I suspect this based on the butt hurt whining on Toronto I’ve seen the past few years, especially in RVF. This thread has twenty pages of whining https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-6277.html?highlight=toronto. Women are misandrist bitches who yell at you if you try and talk to them etc. Then there are blogs like this one also talking shit about the women in Toronto:

  6. Weird thing about Toronto…. maybe we have too many awesome restaurants here… women go out to eat late at night…. They go to the club, then they find some trendy restaurant for a midnight snack.  Food seems more important than sex.  If they find some chump that’s willing to pay for their drinks and/or food, then even better for them (they’re not going to fuck that guy though).

    Another thing you see a lot is this 3rd or 4th “tag along” friend… usually, this person is a very overweight/unattractive friend who acts as a massive cock block for the entire group of girls.

    So … night game is a bit nightmarish in Toronto, but online game is just fine…It’s a HUGE city after all… there’s tons of introverted girls who use online game and are super horny (hornier than any girl out on the town it seems).

     

  7. Being a Chicago native I can attest that it is pretty easy to get laid here.  It’s a city of MILLIONS for christ sake.  Just playing the damn averages can get you laid here.  I’m by no means the hottest guy around-I’m good looking(I look young for 38), in shape but not tall(5’9″ is considered short by many) and I do well financially but I’m nowhere near wealthy(no fancy car or loft in the gold coast).   I’ve managed to rack up a pretty good count over the years which would have been higher had I not been wasting away in the suburbs for many years of my 20’s.

    So whoever told you that your ideas won’t work in Chicago did not actually try it.  I can see guys struggling in small town USA but in large metro areas there is no excuse.  It just tells me you’re too lazy to get out there and meet people.  I’ve not even done online dating here and still keep a good rotation a couple girls at any given time.

  8. Point 3 of your “In Review ” section is by far the most important point. Everyone is different so some cities may be easier for some people that others. The point is to find a city where women are interested in meeting a guy like you,

  9. If anything it’s easier to get laid in liberal cities like Portland. Liberal women are very repressed due to the nature of their socialist mindset. As it is self-imposed this leads to great frustration and a desire for fantasy fulfillment. They like nothing better than to be seduced by a conservative Alpha; this leads to intense satisfaction while they stand around the coffee machine the following week nodding to the sisterhood whilst sporting a secret smile.

    Short version: any excuse will do for a scared male.

  10. Hello! Long-time reader, first time commenter.

    It’s reassuring for you to say some cities are more difficult than others, but still possible.

    I live next to a moderately sized city in Alabama (census 186,254 (2013)) and have noticed that online dating is much less common here for women. This could be due to several factors, and I am relatively new to online game here, but I ran through almost all of the girls’ profiles in a matter of days. There are a handful of others outside that range, but driving over an hour seems to be counterproductive to getting laid on the regular.

    My question: Has anyone else had experience in the northern Alabama area? What sites have been seen to have the most traffic for truly available women rather than those looking for boyfriends? (Common theme from what I can tell)

    Any comments would be appreciated.

    Thank you, Black Dragon, for being the badass you are and showing others the way to becoming better men. You’ve already made a difference in this young man’s life.

  11. Indeed, this whole easier/harder/impossible discussion is a moot point, because it’s a numbers game.  The solution to almost every obstacle is to “put in more numbers”.

    I can vouch for SF being tricky in this regard.  Most of the good looking women here have boyfriends/girlfriends/spouses, and usually very beta ones at that.  I attribute this to the “mature and responsible” thinking that comes with being career-oriented; this city is a cesspool of startup culture after all.

    The silver lining to all of this is that the vast majority of single men here are lumbersexual tech bro types.  It doesn’t take much effort for a man to stand out here.

  12. What is the deal with Copenhagen that makes it more difficult?

    I’ve never been there (and have no desire to visit) but the bottom line to my understanding is that women there are not only feminist, but also strongly anti-sex.

    Also I’m curious about your experiences (if any) in Sweden.

    Haven’t been there yet. But it’s on the list! You’ve got HOT CHICKS in Sweden!
    Probably in 2017.

    When you date in foreign countries, do you mention that you’re only there temporarily in your profile?

    Yes. But often I say I “visit regularly,” depending on the location (if that’s true; I don’t lie).

    It does make me wonder how many emails you’ve gotten from game-denialists.

    These aren’t game-denalists. These are my-city-denalists. There’s a strong difference.

    Game-denalists don’t ever email me. But yes, I get emails from the you-don’t-understand-BD-my-city-is-different guys occasionally.

    The issue I think is these guys are lazy or they just won’t admit they don’t like the women’s attitudes and therefore think the women are not worth the effort (not surprising due to extreme left wing views).

    Great, but then what? Go celibate and never get laid? Fuck hookers the rest of your life?

    That position makes no sense (unless you permanently move to another country I suppose, then at least you’re walking your talk).

    I suspect this based on the butt hurt whining on Toronto I’ve seen the past few years, especially in RVF.

    Yes, but in Roosh’s (and others) defense, I have indeed encountered a lot of men who are legitimately doing everything right and still have trouble in Toronto.

    BUT, as I said in the post above, saying that “We can’t get laid here in Toronto!” is BULLSHIT. Yes you can. Up your game, improve your appearance, and put in more numbers. Or fucking move. Just stop fucking WHINING. It’s pathetic.

    maybe we have too many awesome restaurants here

    Haha, no. It has nothing to do with restaurants. Most big cities are jam-packed with restaurants.

    Food seems more important than sex.

    Wrong again. Just like with guys who bitch about Australia, THAT’S MOST GIRLS, not just Toronto girls. Most girls where I live would rather get food than fuck too, or at least pretend so.

    That’s part of the problem here. A guy encounters a problem in his city and assumes it’s only in his city. It doesn’t even occur to him that other big cities probably have the same problems.

    Your city isn’t “special.”

    Being a Chicago native I can attest that it is pretty easy to get laid here.  It’s a city of MILLIONS for christ sake

    You can get laid in any big Western city. (And most non-Western cities too.)

    I can see guys struggling in small town USA but in large metro areas there is no excuse.

    Correct. I’ve said before that if you live in a small town, pickup of any type, as well as stuff like FB/MLTR management, is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible. Those guys need to either get a GF and suffer through monogamy or move.

    But guys who live in cities with literally millions of people saying they can’t get laid? BULLSHIT.

    I live next to a moderately sized city in Alabama (census 186,254 (2013)) and have noticed that online dating is much less common here for women. This could be due to several factors, and I am relatively new to online game here, but I ran through almost all of the girls’ profiles in a matter of days.

    What I said above. Online game isn’t viable in a city with less than about 400,000 people. If you’ve got 180K people in your town, all of your options are bad:

    – Get a GF and suffer through monogamy.
    – Get really, REALLY good at daygame and/or social circle game.
    – Move to a bigger city.

    The solution to almost every obstacle is to “put in more numbers”.

    Correct! That’s what got me laid back when I was more chubby and going a lot of things wrong: I constantly cranked the numbers.

    I can vouch for SF being tricky in this regard.

    Yes, SF is another more difficult city. (But you can still get laid there!)

  13. Blackdragon, given all the data you have, what do you think are 3-5 North American cities that are easy to get laid in?  Is there an anti-Toronto?  Thank you.

     

  14. Most of the good looking women here have boyfriends/girlfriends/spouses,

    So what? How does this prevent you from fucking them?

    Haven’t been there yet. But it’s on the list! You’ve got HOT CHICKS in Sweden!
    Probably in 2017.

    Remember, in Sweden, not only can you be charged with rape for what we in America call “consensual sex” due to Swedish cops needing to fill their yearly rape quota via ridiculously broad definitions of rape, but you may also be arrested for “non-consensual acts during consensual sex.” Be careful.

     

  15. Blackdragon, given all the data you have, what do you think are 3-5 North American cities that are easy to get laid in?  Is there an anti-Toronto?

    In the Western world, no. There are more difficult cities, but there are no “easy” cities (in the Western world). All the West has become more difficult.

    If you want easy, you need to go outside the west, to somewhere like the Philippines.

    Visit India sometime and share your experiences.

    I will. India is on the list bigtime. Not until 2017-18 though.

    However I won’t get getting laid there. They’re more sexually repressed than the Middle East in many ways.

    Remember, in Sweden, not only can you be charged with rape for what we in America call “consensual sex”

    Oh Jesus. Stop the fear mongering. Re-read the 2% rule.

  16. I can provide another data point on SF. In order to get laid here regularly I need to chop 3-4 points off the ‘attractiveness’ scale. The hot chicks online don’t give me the time of day, and they most certainly do not respond well to BD’s online game system as run by me. 100-200 openers means 1-5 responses, and of those responses maybe 1 or 2 turn into dates. And 10ish dates for a lay.

    That said, since I decided to drop my minimum to 4’s I’m not really having much trouble. But if you want hot chicks regularly with minimal effort…don’t come here.

  17. I’m curious, what’s your take on the cycling of LSSWs? In a year I will be more fit with tighter game, but will the audience I failed on still largely be there or will there be a new crowd by then?

  18. Now if it’s harder to get laid in certain cities, does that mean that the girls just aren’t having sex or only a small percentage of guys are getting laid?

    Or maybe the complainers just have impossibly high standards that only few can meet. I know for a fact that the city that I’m living in, I don’t hear many complaints about not getting laid, but then again most guys I talk to have zero standards. Lots of women here are pretty fat.

  19. What books do you have?

    Not sure what you’re asking, but if you’re asking for the books I’ve written, they’re here.

    I can provide another data point on SF.

    It is not a data point unless many other men in SF report the same thing. Until then, it’s a “just you” scenario.

    But I will say again that SF is one of the harder cities.

    I’m curious, what’s your take on the cycling of LSSWs?

    I have no idea what an LSSW is.

    Now if it’s harder to get laid in certain cities, does that mean that the girls just aren’t having sex or only a small percentage of guys are getting laid?

    It depends on the city, but the answer is neither. The usual answer (and again, it depends on the city) is that more women are fucking temporarily monogamous beta males than Alphas/players.

    Or maybe the complainers just have impossibly high standards that only few can meet.

    YES, there is as strong component of this. An angry, right-wingish, Alpha 1.0 wanting a happy, submissive, dress-wearing, 1950s sweetheart, while living in today’s typical Western city full of “sluts” (his word, not mine) is going to be very frustrated (until he moves to Vietnam or something). While a guy like me in his same town is going to be very happy, being in a serious relationship with a high-end MLTR or OLTR and fucking other MLTRs and FBs on the side.

    I know for a fact that the city that I’m living in, I don’t hear many complaints about not getting laid, but then again most guys I talk to have zero standards. Lots of women here are pretty fat.

    YET AGAIN, that’s almost ALL big Western cities, not just yours. MOST Western cities are full of fat chicks, particularly in the US.

    You guys are like a broken record! You guys really need to replace “women here are…” with “women in most Western cities are…” That will solve a lot of your confusion.

  20. It is not a data point unless many other men in SF report the same thing. Until then, it’s a “just you” scenario.

    It is indeed a data point. I haven’t tried to control for a bunch of variables, so it might be low-quality data, but it is most definitely data. It’s not the final word, and it’s not fact, or anything of that nature.

    But really, lots of men do report the same thing, and you admit it yourself…the area is much harder than most areas. If there weren’t other benefits keeping me around I wouldn’t be here. I tried using your material and got terrible results with 8+’s (but results nonetheless, just not worth the time investment messaging and dating), but I can get results with 4+’s, so that’s what I’ve done. Of course, you might say I’m abnormal and that your material doesn’t work for me for whatever reason, but I’m more inclined to believe it’s the area. NOT impossible, but requires a huge time investment to get consistent sex with 8+’s.

     

     

  21. It is indeed a data point. I haven’t tried to control for a bunch of variables, so it might be low-quality data, but it is most definitely data. It’s not the final word, and it’s not fact, or anything of that nature.

    It is a data point for you, which is tremendously important to your own growth and game, but it’s not a data point for anyone else.

    Speaking in general, a guy stating his individual experience in an individual city is a data point for him, not for thousands of men reading a blog. (Though there are exceptions to this.)

    But really, lots of men do report the same thing, and you admit it yourself

    In this particular case, yes, other men have reported difficulty to me in SF (more numbers required, longer meet-to-lay times, higher ASD, etc), but you’re the first to report that you can only fuck ugly girls online. I haven’t heard that from anyone else. (If many other men now report this exact same thing, then its a data point.)

    Again, a data point in terms of reporting it to the thousands of men who read this blog is a specific item many men are reporting. A specific experience you have through your own testing is a data point for yourself. Two different kinds of data points; I was referring to the former.

  22. but you’re the first to report that you can only fuck ugly girls online.

    I tried using your material and got terrible results with 8+’s (but results nonetheless, just not worth the time investment messaging and dating),

    I can fuck non-ugly girls online, but it means sending a ton of messages. Average response rates: 100 messages sent -> 1-5 replies, 10 replies -> 1 date, 10 dates -> 1 lay. If I want to put in the numbers, I can most definitely get laid by non-ugly chicks online, but at those numbers it’s not worth the (minimal) time investment.

  23. YET AGAIN, that’s almost ALL big Western cities, not just yours. MOST Western cities are full of fat chicks, particularly in the US.

    You guys are like a broken record! You guys really need to replace “women here are…” with “women in most Western cities are…” That will solve a lot of your confusion.

    Dude, I’ve been to many cities up here in Canada, including Vancouver (where I grew up), Edmonton (where I am now), and Montreal. So I know for a FACT that women here are fatter, unless you’re hanging around closer to the University.

    However, I can’t say too much about the US since I don’t go there that often but from what my American friends tell me… Well, the girls up here are hotter.

     

    On another note, I know you have a lot of experience with online dating, but have you ever used IM programs such as Skype, ICQ, or something similar? I just had someone randomly add me (probably a scammer), but I remember chatting with random people over ICQ about 10 years ago, and it was normal.

  24. “Average response rates: 100 messages sent -> 1-5 replies, 10 replies -> 1 date, 10 dates -> 1 lay. If I want to put in the numbers, I can most definitely get laid by non-ugly chicks online, but at those numbers it’s not worth the (minimal) time investment.”

    I think the only way his system works is by sending vast quantities of messages. Honestly, getting laid has to be really, really important to you to make this worth bothering with. I agree that putting the numbers in is very important but there’s a limit. Maybe the ratio you quote is considered “worth it” by some people to get the odd shag, but really, who can be arsed with all that nonsense?

  25. On another note, I know you have a lot of experience with online dating, but have you ever used IM programs such as Skype, ICQ, or something similar?

    Yes, but only people I’ve first communicated with over an online dating site. Going after people cold (or responding to cold contacts) over IM services is a huge waste of time.

    I think the only way his system works is by sending vast quantities of messages.

    Correct. That’s the only way any pickup system works; online, daygame, night game, etc. Read item number 9 here.

    Honestly, getting laid has to be really, really important to you to make this worth bothering with.

    Meaning, if you don’t mind going without sex? I mind that, so I put in the work. But I only do it about once every 12-18 months or so. Pickup is a pain in the ass so I only do it as infrequently as possible, relaxing with FBs and MLTRs the rest of the time.

  26. Re Toronto…….I dunno guys……I’m a 40-something 5’8″ short guy with decent game and it’s been pretty easy to get laid here. I dress well and am socially adept but girls here are dying for a masculine man. I regularly bang even the 33+ crowd we like to complain about.

    Don’t do much night game but online and day game, there are so many women that there are always more opportunities than time. The benefit of living in a densely populated city is huge. There are literally good looking women everywhere.

  27. The benefit of living in a densely populated city is huge. There are literally good looking women everywhere.

    That’s the bottom line. I could have sex with hot chicks non-stop in ANY large Western city no matter how “bad” it was or how “feminist” it was or how “fat” or “ugly” the chicks there were. When you have access to millions of women, the numbers work out no matter what, as long as you put in the effort.

  28. Since I will not be able to live in a real city any time soon and commuting for sex is not a workable option for me (is it for anyone?), I will remain a small-town game guy.

    It has already been covered here and on the sedfast forum that in small town situations you are limited to mostly social circle game and possibly settling for ‘less’ (i.e., monogamy, unattractive partners, etc.)

    I currently manage to have between 1 and 3 WDs in my small town at all times but would love to improve my options and success rate (high flake rates, poor options for getting very attractive women, etc.). Does anyone here know anything about working out successful small-town strategies other than the meager advice that is already well-known?

  29. @Kurt

    Just curious, but what’s stopping you from moving to a big city? If money is the issue, wouldn’t it be worth more your effort in getting that figured out first? Nowadays there are many options in increasing your income, and the benefits of having more money (better clothes, nicer home, the odd escort if you really need it, a car, etc,…) make it more worthwhile.

    Btw living in a small town, if there are only a few attractive women, doesn’t that also work in your favour? Assuming that they also have fewer options for men as well.

  30. Hey, just discovering this great blog!

    Great topic, and I couldn’t agree more. If I may share some perspective about Doha, in Qatar, Middle East, where I live since 2011.

    I’m Seppuku, 46 years old Western guy working here, and in 2012 I found myself freshly divorced after 15 years, alone here with no idea where to start a love life. Qatar, Muslim country. Sex outside legal marriage is illegal, sentenced with 3 months prison before deportation. Very little western girls, apart from housewives here with husbands and family. Local girls are Muslim in a traditional society, and I don’t want to even venture there. I tried to hit on foreign waitresses, but it’s a high social pressure environment. Also, there are three males for each female in Doha, that’s so many horny dicks. One day I met a guy who actually claimed Doha was a dating paradise, and I thought he bragged. It all sounded so bad… Until one day (in 2014) I stopped whining and actually tried.

    And he was so damn right! I soon started landing dates, getting girlfriends, and then upping my game, and now getting close to one new lay each week. And now things are not nearly as bad as they seemed back then. On the legal side, Qatar does not care what you do in private, as long as it does not show publicly. There is a large community of Asian girls here, which are kept in dormitories under tight control… which just make them sex starved, but not tight enough so that they can’t get out once in a week. Three guys for each girl, but most of these are low status construction workers. Given that many girls don’t want to consider Muslim guys, western white males are highly regarded… But again, most of these are here with family. So single western guys, middle age, like me are automatically high status. All it took me was building a system to contact many new girls (online dating), develop a sexy outlook, and learn how to pull home quickly.

    Morality, no matter how bad it looks, Doha turns out to be a dating paradise… only for the guys who really try. For the rest (like me two years ago)… lots of whining.

    Cheers,

    Seppuku

  31. Me and a lot of my mates clean up in Melbourne. But we’d fit the description of hot muscular young men. Maybe more people should stay out of the McDonald’s drive-in, unless they like fatties.

  32. Hey BD,

    Wanted to say that of all the cities in N. America, nothing compares to Montreal. It’s the best city on the continent- not just Canada.  For many reasons, including the quality of the women.

    Now, for the whiners: Is it easier to pick up women in Montreal than Toronto?

    Yes, of course it is. It’s *massively* easier.

    I live in Toronto, and I would never pretend to anyone that pickup is not a serious challenge in Toronto. My personal, albeit subjective, opinion is that the 2 toughest cities for pickup in N. America are Los Angeles and Toronto, in that order. More challenging even than New York.

    OTOH, the PU community in Toronto has *loads* of guys who pick women up regularly and consistently. This in itself proves the whiners wrong.

  33. Hey Blackdragon,

    Just a quick question:

    What would be the difficulty level of scoring chicks in East Asian (China) and South Asian (India) countries? You mentioned primarily Western countries, and I live in Taiwan. Last thing I wanna do is to come off as a whiner, but I’d really appreciate your analysis.

  34. I can’t answer that with any accuracy, since I’m white, and a white guy getting laid in Asia is different than an Asian guy getting laid in Asia.

    In Taiwan specifically, I’ve heard that it’s a little harder because of the more conservative culture; women are looking for boyfriends/husbands. But I do know a few Asian guys in Taiwan who get laid.

  35. Black Dragon, I agree with much of your assessment here, but I have to admit , a town like Boise is utterly horribly for men to get laid, despite being filled with young beautiful women.  Most of the women here marry young and divorce old with too many kids, ex’s, pounds and drama to deal with.    You are stating that ultra left wing and feminist cities are tough to get laid in (like Portland).  However, I have found it to be quite the contrast, that cities that are very right-wing and male dominated can actually pose a great problem.  The problem is that in these type of cities women generally are part of Christian or religious communities and many will marry at a young age.  In fact, Idaho I believe was ranked to have one of the youngest marriage ages in the country.    However, teen pregnancy and divorce are also very high in this state, ironically.

    It also seems like an outbackish place like Boise has a majority of its imports being single men who come to work at one of the IT companies here.  As well, the women who move here generally come along with the husband and kids and live the suburbia/Christian lifestyle.     Everywhere you go around here there is very few women out by themselves. The only women you will see out who are not hitched (with boyfriend by their side) are the college girls from the big university. However, most of them are very young, like 21-24 age range.. Which is ok, but college girls I find to be ultra cliquey and not so easy for older guys like me (38 years old as of this post) to meet. For the most, Boise is a big sausage fest, with men, men and more men everywhere! It’s a man fest!

    I really can call Boise “Monogamyville” and everyone seems to be in love (for the time being of course).  It’s a town of societally programmed people being told to live the American Dream, but in reality, there is a lot of unrest and the people here feel pretty rigid, superficial and programmed.

    It’s hard for me to pin my finger at what’s going on here in Southern Idaho.  I do believe the Mormon influence has some weight, as well as the strong Evangelical Christian influence. As well, Boise, like the rest of the Northwest has the Scandinavian heritage and people, in general are very modest, reserved and introverted. However, with the Christian influenced infused I find it a recipe for disaster. The more free-thinking mindset of Portlanders and Seattlites I think helps open people up from being totally closed, anti-social and sexually and spiritually repressed people.

    I’m curious, being that you live in the city next door, to hear your opinion about Boise?  I  lost my job of 15 years and moved here because it was cheap to live and needed to save money to start my own business.  However, I am all too excited to go back to Seattle.  Seattle is a city many claimed sucks for dating, but I tell you, compared to Boise, Seattle is like a female paradise, despite the fact the women are less attractive (at least they weren’t married 10 years ago at age 18), more feminist, more left-wing etc.

    I also am agreeing with CHase Amante on this issue, that a lot of the so-called feminists are mostly full of hot air and once you get inside their zone and humble them suddenly they revert to their natural tendencies of submitting to the man, even if it is done indirectly or inferred in the relationship.

    I grew up in Oregon and lived in Portland for 12+ years and Seattle for 5 years and I can tell you those cities are gazillion times better for meeting women as a guy who is over 25 years old. Maybe if you are a teenager or interesting in dating 45-60 year old single mothers, a place like Boise is for you.

    The fact this is a small town where everyone knows everyone’s business and you see the same people, including the girl’s beefed up boyfriend who you attempted to ask out the week before (who now hates your guts).   Yeah, I feel very uneasy about working any game in this town and people are very skittish, unreceptive and there is just a generally fearful and uneasy attitude people have.  I find them to be smiley faced douches and the women tend to be very rigid .  They dress like utter horny sluts, but their behavior is much more reminiscent of a shamed face nun.   I and other guys from out of town tend to agree that the women here are very cold, rigid and unsexy in every aspect except their attire.

    Again, I am interested to hear your take on Boise, Idaho and places like it.

  36. Most of the women here marry young and divorce old with too many kids, ex’s, pounds and drama to deal with.

    Wrong. I’ve been to Boise; plenty of those women divorce young. Many more cheat on their husbands (monogamy doesn’t work).

    You are stating that ultra left wing and feminist cities are tough to get laid in (like Portland).

    That is the exact opposite of what I said. Please re-read the article.

    Regardless, Boise is worse than Portland or Seattle because Boise is very small; around 600K people for the entire area. So yeah, it’s going to be worse. Small cities are always worse than larger cities.

    A small city like Boise is a place you move to when you’re well over age 60 and have settled down with your OLTR. As I’ve said many times, if you’re a single guy, under age 60, and your sex life is important to you, cannot live in a city with less than a million people. Otherwise you’ll just be upset.

    That being said, I could have sex with hot chicks in their 20s if I lived in Boise with no problem, because I don’t make excuses like you do. Judging from your past comments (particularly the ones in my Fiji post) you have weird Alpha 1.0 purity fantasies about getting monogamous with some perfect woman someday. I don’t have this problem, thus I could get laid in Boise while you’ll just sit there being frustrated.

    Regardless, you should move back to Portland or Seattle.

  37. I’m from SF, but just came back from a visit to New York and wanted to share some statistics. Keep in mind, these numbers come from both online game (primarily OKC) and night game (bar hopping 1/2x per week).

    SF: In the past 5 weeks, I’ve met and slept with three new women. I met all of them online. They are all attractive, have amazing bodies, and were DTF within two dates. Good stuff, but it took a lot of numbers to get there (I use an autoclicker).

    New York: I met and slept with two new women IN FOUR DAYS. I met both of them at bars, and I didn’t even have to approach them; they approached me. The NY girls were also younger and hotter (though to be fair, one of them was originally from LA).

    To reiterate: For anyone dating in the Bay Area, my recommendation is to treat SF (and the peninsula) as a last resort, because your results per time invested are generally going to be the worst there. Berkeley, Oakland, and even San Jose will give you better (not great, but better) odds, and the women are often more attractive to boot.

    So what? How does this prevent you from fucking them?

    Really, Jack? Is that what I said? I’m just trying to help people man.

  38. As far as the title is concerned, I think people by “impossible” they mean extremely difficult. So, addressing this argument was pointless.

  39. As far as the title is concerned, I think people by “impossible” they mean extremely difficult.

    I know. If you read the article, I make that clear.

    So, addressing this argument was pointless.

    Read the definition of a nitpicker here.

  40. Blackdragon,

    Any chance you can categorize major US cities (or major Western Cities) > 5M metro population into three buckets : hard, medium, and easy?

     

    e.g. Toronto and Copenhagen are hard

    Las Vegas and Miami are easy…

    ….and so on.

     

  41. Remember, in Sweden, not only can you be charged with rape for what we in America call “consensual sex” due to Swedish cops needing to fill their yearly rape quota via ridiculously broad definitions of rape, but you may also be arrested for “non-consensual acts during consensual sex.” Be careful.

    False. I live in Sweden, and it’s amazing the bullshit I hear from Americans who like to beat their chests by bashing countries they have never been to. Especially when it’s about immigration – this from people in a country with ONE MILLION immigrants year after year for decades, and where White kids are already the minority among school children, which somehow is ignored. “fill their yearly rape quota,” you gotta be kidding. I’ve had sex with dozens of women and there was never the slightest risk of any leal trouble, not with leftist women either. I even slept with a leftist law graduate working at the tax authorities, who got furious at me for ditching her after a few weeks and keeping my online dating profile, and not for a moment did I think she would use the law against me. Which would have been impossible.

    Oh sure, you can probably dig up some absurd court case that made the news. Do you know why it made the news? Because it was unusual. So that Swedes, angry over the absurd result, posted it online. Where Americans use it to say “lulz look thats what swedes are like we are so much better lulz fucking cucks”.

    There are such cases in pretty much every Western country. But you never hear about them because most people don’t speak English very well, and therefore usually don’t post in English-speaking forums. They stick to forums in their own language. By contrast Swedes speak better English as a second language than any other people in the world, and are very active in English-speaking forums, of which most are American.

    There are extreme examples of men on campuses in the U.S., notably California, who are expelled because of a baseless rape charge. The case with “Mattress Girl” comes to mind. Feminist lawyer Gloria Allred led female students in a class-action lawsuit against a university for supposed sexual mistreatment, and they had to pay up. Using the same method of picking a few cases and generalizing, I could laugh at all Americans for being “weak cucks, you can’t have sex without being charged with rape, lol”. But when it happens in the U.S., Americans suddenly learn to read statistics and see different groups. THEN they’ll say, correctly, that “the Left” is responsible for these cases, not the country as a whole. The brain is only turned off when looking at other countries. I also can’t help but think that many of these writers are Meds and Slavs living in the U.S., of which most are good people, but among which there are some who absolutely hate Germanic peoples, much like so many Blacks hate Whites.

  42. The best objective evidence for ease of hookup is in the gender ratio of available single men and women.

    San Francisco has about 1.5 single young men to every single young women.  These men aren’t pushovers either, they’re hyper competitive tech bros that moved there for the same reasons that you did also.  This means the women there are notoriously picky.  A common saying from women there:  “the odds are good, but the goods are odd.”

    In comparison, New York is supposed to be amazing for men relative to San Francisco.

    Personally its stats like this that really push me away from moving to SF, even if I could see dramatic pay increases from making the move.

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