first date advice, first online date, online dating advice, meaning of an open relationship, alpha male traits

A while back I made a post about the nine options men have as they age regarding whether or not they embrace long-term relationships. Today I’m going to discuss the four options men have regarding how they satisfy their normal, everyday sexual needs.

During this analysis, I will be operating under the assumption that the vast majority of men like sex and need sex regularly. It’s true there’s a small percentage of men who are physically unable to have sex because of age or severe debilitation. It’s also true that there’s another small percentage of men who either don’t like sex, have very low sex drives, or have gone extreme MGTOW and become permanently celibate. (Yuck.)

Oddball places like Japan aside, these types of men are a very tiny percentage of the overall male population worldwide under the age of 60. So yeah, there are exceptions, but on the overall men like and need regular sex.

As always, the four options have their pros and cons. One option is societally acceptable, one is partially so, one is not acceptable, and the fourth option (my favorite) is largely unknown, though as time goes on will become more known and accepted.

Option 1: Get a monogamous girlfriend

This is the way most men get sex. It’s by far the easiest way, accessible by strong Alpha Males and weak beta males alike. It’s also the most societally acceptable way, by far. It meets many needs of both false Societal Programming and Obsolete Biological Wiring. Moreover, if your girlfriend is even a little above average in looks, you also get accolades and praise from society. Even if she isn’t, society will pat you on your back for your “good” decision.

Getting a standard, monogamous girlfriend takes virtually zero technique once a girl likes you. Just ask her to be your GF, and she’s likely in. Takes about ten seconds. This is why it’s so popular with gameless betas, AFCs, and other submissive men. It also provides at least the illusion that she’ll never have sex with other men, which is why this option is also popular with many Alpha Male 1.0s.

The problems with this option? Well, that should be obvious at this point. It’s all the stuff I’ve been talking about for years that I probably don’t need to repeat. You can’t have sex with other women even if you want to (which you will). You’ll have to follow her orders and parameters at least to some degree. Your freedom is reduced. You’ll have to put up with a certain amount of drama, based on how long the relationship lasts, how often you see each other, and your respective personalities.

When the relationship ends, and it will, you will experience a fun array of negative feelings since the statistical odds are overwhelmingly likely she will dump you before you dump her. Then you have to start from square one all over again, looking for a new source of sex.

Option 1 Sexual Availability

Can you get sex whenever you want under option 1? It depends.

During the first few months of NRE, the answer is hell yes. You’ll be so damn horny for each other you’ll have more sex than you can handle. Your dick will be bent in half.

However, as the relationship moves out of NRE and into its normal flow, you’ll have sex sometimes but not others. If you’re horny but she’s not available that evening, you’re out of luck. You’ll have to go jerk off to porn. Same goes for if she’s out of town, sick, mad at you, etc. Because your mono-GF is your only source of sex, you are 100% reliant on her schedule and emotional state of mind to provide you with your needed sex. Sometimes you’ll get laid a lot. Other times you’ll have to wait.

Yes, you could cheat, but as I’ve discussed before, men are very bad at not getting caught when they cheat, so if you cheat regularly, you’re going to get caught, then you’ll have to deal with even more drama and even a possible breakup.

Long-term monogamy (long-term being defined as anything expected to last longer than three years) is utterly insane, and that’s only for men who are delusionally ignorant or those men who secretly like drama and chaos in their lives.

Short-term monogamy or serial monogamy is viable for men who have at least some of the following qualities:

1. Have lower sex drives.

2. Have more controlling personalities.

3. Have a higher tolerance for drama, complaints, or arguments.

4. Are more submissive.

5. Are lazy.

6. Have a need for relationships and/or stability.

If you’re in one of those categories, serial monogamy may “work” for you, though notice my quotes around the word “work.” Post-NRE you won’t be nearly as happy as I am or as often, and you won’t have access to sex whenever you want like I do, and you won’t be able to do whatever you want like I can, and you won’t have any sexual variety, but the relationship structure will probably serve your needs for the short-term.

Any men who don’t have at least several of the above qualities should avoid monogamy altogether. You have three other ways of getting sex…

Option 2: Be a pickup artist or player

This is another popular option (at least among Alphas), and the polar opposite of option one. Under this option, you have sex with lots of different women, usually focusing on one night stands and/or very short-term FB-like relationships.

You have much more freedom than a girlfriend guy, but you’re also working a hell of a lot harder. You’re spending many hours a week practicing one of the four game types, going out to the clubs or daygame venues, hitting your social circle hard, cruising the dating sites, hitting on chicks, getting blown out, scheduling day 2s, first dates, and second dates, dealing with flaking women, dealing with women who ghost you, escalating to sex, and all the other fun stuff you’re well aware of if you come from the PUA world.

Those are the pros and the cons in a nutshell. You have massive freedom and can do whatever you want. You have your need for sexual variety constantly sated. On the down side, you’re working much harder than a guy like me or the girlfriend guy. Moreover, eventually you’re going to start to feel lonely, depressed, or at least unfulfilled with your shallow lifestyle, making you very susceptible to oneitis. (This is why oneitis often hits experienced players harder than it hits the typical beta male.) This might take several years, but it will eventually happen unless you’re an unusual exception to the rule.

Option 2 Sexual Availability

Can you get sex whenever you want when you’re a player? The answer is yes, but only if A) you’re good and B) you’re constantly working at it. If you’re a beginner or mediocre, sex on demand isn’t going to happen consistently until you get good. Even after you get good, if you get lazy, tired, or busy with other areas of your life, you’re going to have regular dry spells lasting months (or more).

Years ago on PUA forums I was shocked and saddened to see the numbers of experienced PUAs / players who encountered regular dry spells lasting many months. It was considered a normal thing for them to regularly go months with zero sex. If I ever had to go months without sex I’d kill myself, but I admit I’ve always had a higher-than-average sex drive. (I haven’t gone 30 days without sex since December of 2009, which was almost six friggin’ years ago, and even that was because of a massive snowstorm that paralyzed my entire city.) So if you choose the player option for getting sex, you need to accept that there will be regular dry spells you’ll have to deal with.

Option 2 is viable for men who are more towards the Thrill of the Hunt end of the spectrum, and those who have a strong need for freedom and/or constant sexual variety. It’s also only viable for men who have lots of free time and/or control over their own schedules, since the regular work involved is formidable. If you’re a true Thrill of the Hunt man and you’re loving it, you may not view it as “work,” but you know what I mean.

Option 2 is viable for men who have at least some of the following qualities:

1. Have Thrill of the Hunt personality types, love the hunt, and love the sense of accomplishment of doing something difficult.

2. Have a strong need for sexual variety.

3. Don’t have a strong need for relationships.

4. Have more extroverted personalities.

This leads us into the next common option, though one frowned upon by most of society…

Option 3: Have sex with hookers

This is an option chosen by a smaller segment of the male population who have higher incomes (or more disposable income), and who also don’t mind wearing condoms every time they have sex. Under option 3, you get the freedom of the player but without having to spend all the time, work, and effort. Paying sugar babies for sex is also a variation of option 3.

The downsides? Beyond the obvious ones of condoms and being aware of STDs (at least in areas of the world where this is a problem with hookers), it also costs a hell of a lot more money than the player, who can often get laid for free or close to it. However, men with higher incomes may not consider this a negative, since they make so much money they don’t care or even notice the expense.

Another problem is that option 3 probably is the least societally acceptable option for men getting sex of all four options. You’re probably not going to be able to tell your family and co-workers about how you get laid, or if you do, you’ll have to be somewhat careful and covert about it. It’s true that this stigma against having sex with prostitutes is less in some cultures than in others, but you know what I mean.

Lastly, the man who chooses option 3 will, like the player, eventually feel unfulfilled with this option in the long-term unless he’s an unusual exception to the rule.

Option 3 Sexual Availability

Can you get sex whenever you want under option 3? Yes. Of all the options, option 3 is the most conducive for getting laid literally whenever you want, whenever you need. Sex is never more than a text and a few hundred dollars away.

Option 3 is viable for men who have at least some of the following qualities:

1. Have high incomes, or have lots of regular, disposable income due to low lifestyle.

2. Have no desire for relationships.

3. Have a lower drama tolerance.

4. Are lazy or very busy.

5. Have a strong need for sexual variety.

This brings us to the final option, one most people in society don’t know about yet…

Option 4: Nonmonogamous relationships: FBs, MLTRs, or an OLTR

This option is nothing new to anyone who’s read this blog or my books. Under this option, a man maintains a roster of women in an ever-rotating harem of several sexual partners. Some of these partners are just sex (FBs). Some of these partners involve real romantic feelings (MLTRs). If he wants to pair bond with a serious girlfriend, he does so, but he’s still allowed to have sex with FBs on the side (OLTR).

Pros and cons? Let’s start with the cons first. Setting up these relationships involves a very specific process that’s unusual to a man if he’s never done it or seen it done before. It takes a lot of extra work at effort at the beginning of the relationship that the monogamous girlfriend guy never needs to worry about. The girlfriend guy can create a mono-LTR in ten seconds. The MLTR or OLTR guy requires, sometimes, as much as three months of focused effort where he can’t screw up. The good news is that once he’s hit that point, his workload decreases to almost nothing and he’s good to go for a very, very long time.

The other problem is that under this option, women are allowed to have sex with other guys if they want. As I’ve discussed in my books, often women don’t to do this, but sometimes they do. More controlling men or men with more jealous personalities are going to have very difficult time coping with this, requiring some level of conscious jealousy management, at least when he’s new at this stuff.

The final problem is, like option 3, option 4 is not socially acceptable, at least not by most (though this is rapidly changing and won’t be a problem at all in the next decade or two). Guys with MLTRs might be fine, but guys with OLTRs are usually going to have to keep the open aspect a secret to most of their friends and family in order to look normal.

The advantages of option 4 are obvious. Unlike the girlfriend guy, the Alpha Male 2.0 with FBs and MLTRs has massive freedom. He can get sex and female companionship whenever he wants, even if one of his women are unavailable. Unlike the hooker guy, this doesn’t cost him any money (or very little money). Unlike the player, once his relationships are established, he doesn’t have to work hard at all…sex comes to him effortlessly just like with the girlfriend guy.

Taking it to the next level, an Alpha 2.0 with a higher drama tolerance can get an OLTR, and can do all the things and experience all the emotions of the girlfriend guy while still being able to have sex with other women and new women on the side whenever he likes. This is within whatever ground rules the man and the woman set, and every OLTR is different this way. Lazier men will allow their OLTR to set all kinds of rules for them, but more wise Alpha Male 2.0s will only have OLTRs where the number of rules and sexual restrictions are minimal.

Option 4 Sexual Availability

Can the option 4 guy get sex whenever he wants? Once everything is set up, yes. At the very beginning of the process, no. He’ll have to spend some time learning the system and getting some plates up and spinning. However, once he does this (and he only needs to do this once in his life), forevermore he can have sex pretty much whenever he wants.

I’m a hardcore option 4 guy, and as I type these words it’s 2:30 p.m. in the afternoon on a weekday. I already know I’m having sex this evening. But if I wasn’t, or if the woman I’m going to see tonight cancels, I just need to send two or three texts with my phone right now, and I will be getting laid in just a few hours. Sending two or three texts. That’s all the work it requires. It takes about 30 seconds and costs me zero dollars.

This has been the case for me for at least the last seven years, and let me tell you, it’s a great life. I get all the emotions and feelings of the girlfriend guy (when I want them, that is), plus all the freedom and variety of the PUA / player, plus the sex on demand like the hooker guy. Option 4 does have its downsides, but I’ve reached the point where these downsides don’t bother me. I’ve already done the work to lay in the foundations, I never get jealous (too busy with my Mission and I’m not threatened by other men), and I don’t give a shit what other people in my personal or business life think of my relationship life. (Since I published my book last year, everyone already knows. Don’t care.)

Option 4 is viable for men who have at least some of the following qualities:

1. Have higher sex drives.

2. Have a strong need for personal freedom.

3. Have a lower drama tolerance.

4. Have at least a moderate need for sexual variety.

5. Have a need for relationships and/or stability.

6. Have busy schedules.

7. Don’t have controlling personalities.

So there you go, your four options for getting sex on a regular basis, at least in the short-term. As always, none of them are perfect and all of them involve downsides. It’s your job to pick the best one based on your needs and personality. Of course you know my favorite one, by far (Option 4!), but I’m certainly not here to influence you in any way.

Just kidding.

48 Comments on “The 4 Ways Men Get Sex – Pros and Cons

  1. @ BD

    I haven’t used the services of a hooker (yet – I may do as I get even older; it’s legal and well regulated here) but you highlight wearing a condom as one of the disadvantages.

    But, if we are to accept (as sensible men will) that whatever way we get sex, woman can and will have sex with other men, shouldn’t we always use a condom? Pregnancy aside, STDs are a potential problem even in the open relationship model, if not more so actually, as we expect or even encourage our women to have sex with other men.

    Just a thought and a bit of ball ache for me as I had a vasectomy!! 😀 At least if the condom splits, there won’t be a pregnancy. 🙂

  2. 3 AND 4. Gotta use whatever tool is available and what you’re in the mood for.

    Escorts CAN be converted. AND they CAN be EXTREMELY hot. Baskin and Robbins, pick and choose your flavor.

    But even then, you can OKC, POF, daygame (since I’m not interested in clubbing) into FBMLTROLTR at the same time.

  3. But, if we are to accept (as sensible men will) that whatever way we get sex, woman can and will have sex with other men, shouldn’t we always use a condom?

    Read this, item number two.

    I wear condoms on new women, women I don’t trust, and women who have not demonstrated sexual responsibility. I don’t wear condoms on the women who have shown they’re trustworthy. I also get a full battery of STD tests 3 times a year and expect FBs and MLTRs to get them at least once a year or they get nexted.

    But even then, you can OKC, POF, daygame (since I’m not interested in clubbing) into FBMLTROLTR at the same time.

    Good point. A few of the options can be done at the same time.

  4. Hey new reader here. Just thought I would pop in an say hi first. I run a relationship blog for women so I have skimmed through yours and find your content very interesting. Will definitely be following.

  5. I’m the type of guy who wishes there was option 5: LTR where the woman actually stays into me.

    Really, I’m good with that.  Still have a high drive of course and would like variety, but if monogamy actually worked where she didn’t eventually become repulsed by me, I’d choose that.  It’s part lazy, but also sounds like a good deal to me.  If I could come home 5 years in and she was still game for anything and actually attracted/excited to see me, I would sign up for that deal in a heart beat.  It wouldn’t have to be a NRE phase, but something close, and I’d be good.

    The problem is, and the reason I sought out sites like this, is that it is just a fantasy.  That option does not exist.  You have 3 years max as you say, and for a guy like me, who is more confident beta, probably less than that.  Eventually, some months/years in, I’ll get that gut feeling where I know her attraction has lowered.  We all have been there.  We know where that goes.

    That kind of leaves me with 4, or short term monogamy.  No interest anymore in LTR, hookers, or PUA stuff.

  6. I’m the type of guy who wishes there was option 5: LTR where the woman actually stays into me.

    Pretty much every guy on Earth would like that, but…

    that it is just a fantasy. That option does not exist.

    …and there you go.

    At least you have balls to admit it. Many guys don’t/can’t.

  7. @ AB   FWIW, I’d like that option too. I think it may actually be feasible with a pill someday. I think people would be surprised how much it can change your behavior/desires/personality to tinker just a bit with dopamine/serotonin/norepinephrine…. If there was a pill you could be prescribed during the initial months of a new relationship, that you would only take with someone you thought was a good partner for a LTR, and the pill could permanently keep you feeling at least *somewhat* like NRE (or at least not losing all sexual desire for him), I would definitely take it in a heartbeat. It would make my life so much easier.

    People have puritanical hangups though, and think taking a pill for something is wrong or cheating. But if our biological wiring is both obsolete and can’t truly be overcome (which on this issue I absolutely believe is true), and we can find a way to hack our wiring so that it better fits modern times, then I would be all for it.

  8. Hello BD, I’m a 23 years old Student, I dont have money to go out a lot, neither time, so I thought it would be easy to find a gf and stick to it while its good (serial monogamist).

    And because im more of the controlling type, jealous.

    Do you have advices on stop being jealous? Like, i would really like to propose OLTR to my gf but im afraid of the results, im to lazy to find other chicks at the moment, I spend TOO many time with my gf (we are in NRE phase), so as its good and I know its not going to last, im just seeing her a lot and lazy to find fbs, I know im doing wrong but its just till I graduate

     

    Do you have strong advices to stop being jealous? or have the ability of saying no to when she asks to see you

  9. @Felipe

    Well, you’ve put yourself in a hard place. The only way to transition from mono to oltr, is a gradual change. More alpha behaviors, gradually, until its time to ask. If you start right away, if you ask immediately – itll look faked, you’re in for a lot of drama. If its still early, you may be able to do this. But usually, youre better off waiting until the realtionship ends, then establishing a non-mono EFA with a new woman.

    Im also 23 (most think Im much older). I’ve done dating while being a broke student. Not having money and time are simply excuses. Have them come to you. Some of the best dates are free; <$20.

    Practically – the best way to not be jealous is an abundance mentality. Having other FBs, mLTRs, or even simply options. You wont be as worried about losing that women. Time helps in this aspect as well. Also, if you become better than other men in objective ways – high fashion, being an expert in bed, etc. – this helps a lot. Other men are now less of competition. It's more like "go ahead and sleep with him, when you go home and play with yourself because he didnt get you off, you'll be thinking of me."

    Mentally – you should also remember that jealousy, is a primarily outdated emotion. It comes from a time where you had to guard women, lest you lose them. Now, if youre in a city there are probably thousands who will want you. Loss isnt as much of an issue. I'll keep this short – it comes from a fear of loss. Dont let fear control you.

    Hope this helps.
    Cheers,

  10. @ Felipe

    Honestly, dude you already messed up. I’d just start anew.

    Depending on what you’re studying, but even then, I’d just drop out, get a job, start your own business, earn some dough for freedom, then you can practice/focus on fucking up on POF/OKC/in-person game until you get good. even use escorts to practice non-jealousy if you really want. they can be there as an extra tool if you want to use it that way.

    But solve the money and time issue. (Not for them, but so that you can afford to do whatever you want — afford to have the free time for one)

    BD wrote a related article on overcoming your fear of heights on his calebjones blog. This is connected because you learn through facing that shit head on bro. Practice with the one you already got, and by that I mean be willing to fuck it up.

    After all, jealousy is still fear of something. Fear that you suck, are not good enough, etc. Fear of heights. same thing.

    And if she’s just for until you graduate, since you’re not going to be with her forever… unless you give into that… why not be willing to fuck it up if that means you can exercise some new behavioral muscles that are closer to who you want to be and the kind of life you want to have with the kind of relationships you prefer.

  11. Agreed @Kryptokate.  You either hack female wiring by continuing to keep her in goal achieving mode as you said in another comment, or you hack it chemically.

    The debate over that pill that is just about to come out is interesting.  It didn’t look like it would do much, but it was the first pill for ‘Low Sexual Desire Syndrome’ in women, also known as ‘Normal Sexual Desire’ for women.  It is nice that the issue is being addressed from that angle, but they still can’t just come out and say that it’s normal for women to become uninterested.  They have to call it a syndrome.  It’s not a syndrome as we all know.   The main issue people will have is that it does alter mood and people are wary of that (some people anyway).  Then you heap on the societal issues that tell women that they don’t need to change and I think pills are going to be a hard sell for the immediate future.  Maybe one day they will think more like you.

    In the end everybody wins really if women can maintain sexual interest without constantly needing a new goal.  I know for me and most guys, relationships are so easy when she’s into you.  We respond to the affection in kind.  Most guys have no problem working their ass off in a relationship they feel is worth it.  The problem is that it is impossible to present her with new goals forever.  Eventually you run out of new and interesting goals to prevent her from losing attraction.

    As you know and have inferred, women need a goal outside of sex to maintain interest, whereas guys just have sex (and her general desire) as the goal.  It’s easier for guys in that our interest is the woman and her body.  So it’s generally constant as long as nothing medical changes us.  I am somewhat doubtful that a pill can change women to think like that.  We know that not committing completely can though, at least for some period of time.

  12. Great article – I can attest that option 2 is a lot of work, and will almost always lead to stress and burnout. Even with multiple plates spinning, you run the risk of running yourself dry trying to maintain so many different women and all the drama and effort that comes with it. The constant, varied sex is great, but it’s a juggling act that is not sustainable for a healthy, mission driven lifestyle.

  13. Another way is to pay for a nice trip to Puerto Rico for a few days so you and your female of choice can go and have a great time, great sex and become closer toward a relationship. That is unless all of that takes place and when you get back you are immediately greeted by a brand new fresh dating profile for her on okcupid.com. True story and she literally said to me….check my profile, it says seeking friends. I’m like you seriously think I’m that stupid? No answer to the question why she chose to post 3 bikini pictures of the five picture slots, lol. Hard next in full force now

  14. Scott,  That is awful to hear of what happened with that girl you were seeing and I can sympathize with you, having had something similar happen to me.  It feels like being hit by a truck for sure.  Total b/s – it is upsetting & frustrating!

  15. @Bulma78……ya sure does.  However, as I move on with other choices and life I am in the process of getting a lot of answers to questions I had for her.  I made a profile and since I know the “look” she likes, it was easy to get her to respond to my messages.  In one day, I have her so juiced up to meet this guy and as she reveals all her dark secrets (or at least many of them) through the back and forth messaging going on from the profile I created, I will eventually plan a date (she’s already begging to meet this week, lol) at which time she will get a no show from “him” proceeded by getting blocked so she won’t be able to bitch and complain in messages about why “he” didn’t show up for the date.  The least she can live through for the BS she gave me.

  16. @JRM….it’s not like I’m renting an unknown looking car for the day in order to snoop on a girl that’s been cheating on me like other dudes on here, lol

  17. @ Scott

    Another way is to pay for a nice trip to Puerto Rico for a few days so you and your female of choice can go and have a great time, great sex and become closer toward a relationship. That is unless all of that takes place and when you get back you are immediately greeted by a brand new fresh dating profile for her on okcupid.com.

    Just what has she done wrong here??? Do you own her because you take her away for a few days??? Did she promise you monogamy? Do you promise it to her? (And even if you did, we know it doesn’t work, so why bother?)

    But your story does highlight two important aspects. One, don’t spend money on them (I bet that’s what hurts the most!) and two, nobody owns anybody.

    Why oh why can’t people accept that multiple partners is the way to go?

  18. A problem that will happen if option 4 becomes socially accepted is that while the top small percent of men are going to have a harem and plenty of options to get sex, most men are going to have to miss out, or settle for unattractive women who have giant egos and think you should be so lucky to have her. I live in Sydney Australia, tall Caucasian men that are built have plenty of options, other men struggle, even ugly women are stuck up are hard to get.

  19. @Al…..sounds like you are really upset. The reason you feel that way is because you don’t know the facts that have taken place since last October. I don’t have a problem with multiple partners unless the whole time the other person is lying that they don’t have and don’t want other partners and constant lies about other things like working late night double shifts when she really isn’t. There is a list of things a mile long and I never lied to her.

  20. Just what has she done wrong here??? Do you own her because you take her away for a few days??? Did she promise you monogamy? Do you promise it to her?

    Hello Al, I know what you mean, on paper it’s fine, she didn’t do anything wrong technically. Fine, she didn’t make any promises to Scott up there. But it’s still wrong for someone to do that after having such a nice weekend together. It’s the fact that she actually told him to re-check her online dating profile. Common sense; we all know right from wrong. It was cruel, hurtful and she did it on purpose to try to get a reaction out of him because obviously she likes to create drama. If she hadn’t told him to re-check it and she added new pictures and changed her intent on there or whatever, it still sucks pretty bad but wouldn’t have seemed intentionally cruel.  So Scott, yah, who cares if you make a fake profile and stand her up. I wouldn’t personally ever do that, but I’d say if you do, only do it one time and never let her find out it was really you on the other end. I think it was a clever idea in terms of finding out secrets, information and answers. I’d rather know the truth and be put out of my misery than be left to never know.

    Anyways, look, I’ve had a guy I was seeing sleep over my place, we had a great time, and then a couple days later he changed his location on POF. Then of course I find out he’s headed there for a few weeks or whatever. He never told me we were exclusive or that I was his girlfriend, so I have no right be upset, but it doesn’t matter, it still hurts alot.

  21. @Al and whoever else…..so tell me…..she just responded on okcupid to the question when do you plan on having kids? She’s been telling me that she doesn’t want to have a baby until her classes are over in two years. But she responds to this fake profile with no time frame and that if she likes “me” (meaning the guy in the profile ) as much as she thinks she will then possibly as soon as we both want. Unreal…

    So if you we’re me and she texted for some odd reason in a month out of curiousity because of my NC and wants to have sex. Would you guys give it to her knowing that she’s totally lied and been hypocritical and currently hooking other things up as you are fucking her or stick to a once and forever hard next?

  22. A problem that will happen if option 4 becomes socially accepted is that while the top small percent of men are going to have a harem and plenty of options to get sex, most men are going to have to miss out

    A common concern I get all the time here, and unfounded. Read this comment here. Most men will never choose option 4. You have nothing to worry about.

    (I love how someone will freak about about “what if all men do this???” followed by another guy who complains, “Only a small percentage of men can follow your advice, BD!!!” Good times.)

  23. If only a tiny pencentage of men follows option 4, then how is the majority of women supposed to follow it, or at least accept it?

    Besides, a small percent of men taking option 4, while monopolizing a large percent of women is exactly the point of the above poster.

  24. If only a tiny pencentage of men follows option 4, then how is the majority of women supposed to follow it,

    I never said the majority of women are going to follow it. I said they will go along with it if you’re an Alpha and do everything correctly. But since most betas and Alphas (1.0s) will not choose not to do it, the fact most women will go along with it is irrelevant.

    Again, men who freak about about “What if most men in the world end up doing MLTRs and FBs instead of getting married???” have nothing to worry about. The vast majority of dudes are still going to pair-bond monogamously and/or get married eventually (sadly).

  25. So, if most men will still not choose option 4 because of all the extra effort, what exactly will be different in a few years? Polyamory will just be socially acceptable, but consciously not followed, I guess.

  26. So, if most men will still not choose option 4 because of all the extra effort, what exactly will be different in a few years? Polyamory will just be socially acceptable, but consciously not followed, I guess.

    Nonmonogamy (not necessarily polyamory, which is different) will be more socially acceptable even if most people aren’t doing it. Just like with gays today: The vast majority of people aren’t gay, and the vast majority of people have zero problem with it. This is contrasted to the 1980s when I grew up, where most people had a big problem with gays. Nonmonogamy will follow this same path.

    2. More people will be doing FBs / MLTRs, but not a huge swath of the population. Most betas will still be needy pussies, most Alpha Male 1.0s will still (attempt to) restrict their women from having sex with other dudes.

    3. Way more people will be doing OLTRs and open marriages, but they’ll still pair bond, get legally married, cohabitate, have children etc, like they do now. There will be no noticeable societal difference with these people.

  27. @ Steve B – or is it Scott? I’m confused.

    False profiles? What are you playing at? That’s what six year olds do.

    You made several mistakes by the look of it. Getting oneitis, going down the route of living together, getting married?? Not sure.

    Next time you go away, go on your own and hook up with someone you meet there.

    Anyway, the girl in question sounds like she is leaning towards the dangerous. In which case it might just be best to get out. You are the only one who can judge that really.

    BUT is the sex good? Is she hot? Does she earn her place in your bed? If so, then keep her on the back burner and demote her to FB. Don’t spend any money on her. Don’t expect her to change, nor should you try to change her. People don’t change. And don’t be possessive, controlling or jealous. That way you don’t get hurt. 🙂

  28. @Blackdragon, a man after my own heart

    When it comes down to it, when it comes to time, emotional energy, sexual energy and love, there are only 3 things that you can do with it

    1. Spend
    2. Gamble
    3. Invest

    You and I are both investors.

    Anyone following the other two options I listed or any of the other 3 options that you listed is a spender or a gambler.

    I broke it down here in a video. This is actually stuff I don’t cover in either the book or the video course:

  29. @Al…to answer your question, I was just getting answers to questions I’ve waited a year to hear.  And is she hot?  When I say the best in my entire life I mean it and I see the reactions of other men constantly when we’re together.  She’s black and it doesn’t matter, white men, hispanic men, asian men, black men, they all go “Damn” when she walks by.  I guarantee one night with her and you would have oneitis also and I’m dead serious.  I know you will scoff at that comment, but please don’t discount it without being put in that position to know what I am telling you.  Yes we lived together for a very short time two times and she is an absolute phone and social media addict at all times, with me or anyone else she almost never puts it down to not respond to whatever messages she gets.  Yes, she is probably dangerous because she loves fun, excitement and dare devil type thrills more than the typical girl.  For instance right now she is getting her motorcycle license and a motorcycle because she loves riding 150mph, but yet she wants to be a mother soon, lol.  I can’t figure it out and have quit trying to.  She is incredibly smart and a licensed nurse with a bright future, but there is no other way to say it, she absolutely loves promiscuity and the thrill of be showered with attention from men.  I did everything a man could do to be “the man” and obviously it was a mistake.  I should have acted liked she was no big deal and almost ignored her.  It probably would have confused her and made her want me more.  Putting her on the back burner as FB only going forward sounds possible, but I am still learning the ability to turn off my brain ling enough with thoughts of “as soon as she leaves here, she’s going to meet up with some other guy” so that I can just enjoy the moment and not care about the lies.  I grew up believing that cowards are the only ones who allow themselves to be suckers to constant lies.  You however may argue that I was a sucker for continuing to put up with the bullshit since my complaining about it isn’t going to change her.  Why does someone that is so much fun to do things with and go places with and all her other great attributes have to be such a liar and hypocrite?  Nobody can answer that so I know the drill….shut up….man up….hard next and move on with life.

  30. @Al…..I appreciate you reaching out with insight.  She just texted asking me if I can drive her to pick up her car at the shop on Friday, is that something on FB status that I should be doing since it’s not costing me money (other than a small amount of gas) or should I only accept face to face communication for sex?  Obviously for something that small as a ride, if I act petty about it, then do you feel FB status would be doomed as well?   Anyway, not sure if it’s possible, but because of a couple questions on this, can I e-mail a phone number to you and get a call back for a few minutes? It could even be from a blocked number I don’t care

  31. @Scott – A girl I’ve been banging for over a year now was taken to Greece with her current man. During the trip, she was sending me all kinds of dirty photos. When they got back, she had him drive her to my house, him thinking I was one of her girlfriends, only for me to bang her brains out. You’re that guy. Stop being that guy.

  32. @ Scott   “Why does someone that is so much fun to do things with and go places with and all her other great attributes have to be such a liar and hypocrite?”

    Because that is what it is necessary for her to do in order for her to capitalize on the value of an incredibly valuable resource (her body and brains) to maximize the return that she wants: fun, excitement, sex, thrills.

    You said she is the hottest chick you’ve ever had, incredibly fun, and every single man wants her and would fall for her. Well, can you say the same about yourself? Does every single woman want you and would they all fall for you? Because if not, then you are simply being greedy to try to monopolize this woman. You are offering her a crappy deal, and it’s offensive to people to be offered crappy deals because it means you’re trying to benefit yourself at her expense. Her market value is $100, yours is $10, and you’re trying to get her to do an exchange with you. It benefits you at her expense.

    It’s understandable why you want her, but we all want nice things. I’d like a million dollar house that I only have to pay $50k for too. But I wouldn’t make that offer and expect not to be outbid. That’s all this is.

    Unless you are to her what she is to you (i.e. the best she’s ever had or capable of getting), AND you’re so much better than her alternatives that it is worth it to her to give up all those alternatives just to have you, then you shouldn’t expect her to want to be just with you. It’s pretty straightforward. Just give this one up dude. It’s clear you’re not in the league of a world-class hottie daredevil smartypants, or you wouldn’t be writing so desperately about the issue because you’d be busy riding your own motorcycle and fending off admirers. Let this one go.

    This is a good illustration of why people shouldn’t go playing outside their league, either up or down. If you play beneath your league, you will eventually end up ditching them and then you’ll have a lovesick obsessed stalker on your hands.  And if you play above your league, you’ll eventually be the lovesick obsessed stalker.  I know a lot of people reject this and prefer to maintain the delusion that they can somehow bat way out of their league by getting lucky, and not have it come back to bite them in the ass. It’s a very over-optimistic, unrealistic American way to think, much like how many pin their hopes on get rich quick schemes.

  33. @ Kryptokate….very good argument and rationale and the majority of it are right on no doubt.  I have been using her as well for the reasons you stated, but then again it’s a two way street.  However, there are some holes in what you said.  Btw, I do have my own motorcycle that I ride often.  She does not have a license or bike yet.  Also, I do have a lot to offer and although she has not put in as much effort as I have, she would not have given me a shadow of time at all or even fathomed moving in twice at all if she felt otherwise totally.  The difference is although I workout/weightlift a lot, I am 13 years older than her (39-26) so we aren’t really comparing apples to apples here.  Ofcourse she is going to be more admired by younger men than I am by younger women.  However, she doesn’t have near to offer or provide what she knows I do. Therefore a trade off.  Plus she has made it known (her words not mine) that most guys she’s known are irresponsible, don’t have their “act” together and are liars and she said I am none of those, but I realize that doesn’t mean than I am going to make her pussy more wet than another guy closer to her age, I realize that so I agree with you, JRM and Al.  I am not at all saying you are wrong, I simply wanted to get other experienced opinions on whether or not to keep as FB, hard next and never communicate again and if FB then what communication other than sex is wise or acceptable if any?  Is it just “Don’t call me unless you want sex!….click”  ?  Or should the guy answer an occasional text or call outside of meeting for sex? If complete NC without FB is the only way to go given the story then so (fucking) be it.

  34. This is getting a bit off topic, but…

    You’re acting like a kid, and given that, I’m not surprised you’re running into problems. Where are the rest of the chicks you have on rotation? If you were fucking 3 or 4 other chicks in addition to her, do you think you’d care this much? ‘Cause I sure as hell wouldn’t. Everyone makes mistakes, gets a bit too involved or attached, but not everyone thinks that the chick is the hottest chick in the world that any guy would get oneitis for (again, I sure as hell wouldn’t, I don’t really care how hot she is)

    You can do whatever you like, if you think you can handle it, then keep her as an FB, if you don’t, don’t. Can you do non-sex things with an FB? Sure. Should you? Up to you and what you can tolerate. Do you care that she’s using you for your car? If yes, then tell her no, or get something out of it. If not, do it. If you can’t keep your emotions in check it might be better for you to cut all contact, so you can move on.

     

  35. @ Scott. I am not saying you have nothing to offer, I’m sure you do and clearly she thought you offered enough value to have some sort of relationship with you and go on vacation with you. But the fact remains that you seem to want her more than the other way around, or at the very least, she likes you but not enough to want to cash in her chips with you.

    Therefore it would probably be best for your own emotional wellbeing and sense of self esteem to cut her loose entirely. There is nothing you can do to convince her to like you more, she already knows who you are and what you have to offer. She may change her mind eventually, realize her other options aren’t as good as she thought, and try to get you back. But if that happens it will be a function of her being disappointed in her other options, not because of you texting her back or not. So it’s basically out of your hands, which again is why it’d be better to just let it go. You could probably sleep with her again but you’ve already done that a bunch of times so its more likely to increase your oneitis and end up hurting you more.

    It’s a waste of time and emotional energy trying to win someone over who already knows you and has evaluated you. If they’ve decided you’re not their best option, you can’t change that assessment, they will only re-assess if their other options change or turn out to be worse than they’d assumed. And even if that happens you’re unlikely to be satisfied BC then you’ll always feel like her fallback option that she settled with. Better to start afresh with someone who considers you a prize from the beginning.

  36. @ Duke lol I only kill hopes and dreams out of love. Happiness = Expectations – Reality. And I want people to be happy so destroying unrealistic hopes is a necessary evil. 🙂

  37. @ Scott

    This is now way off topic (sorry BD!) so I won’t comment any more. I don’t think that I can add to what others have said but you can email me at hamiltonadvice at gmail.com

    Can’t do the phone thing (not in the states) but glad to write back if you pose your question.

    @KK

    Thanks for your input. 🙂 You put it so much better than I could and it’s good to get a woman’s perspective.

  38. @ Parade and Kryptokate….you guys couldn’t have said it better and I need to just accept it obviously.  Otherwise, your right, kicking the can down the road and hoping something will change will not be for genuine reasons and would just keep me on edge and emotionally spent that thinking my being a backup man will ever change.  I actually thought I could believe her every time I asked and she said, “yes, I am attracted to you and I do see a future with you Scott, just give me time” She would always say later, later, later. Sorry to seem to go on and on, wasn’t my intention, but I am extremely persistent and hate giving up which I associate with losing, but it needs to just be a cold business decision of cutting your losses at this point.  Thanks again.

  39. @KryptoKate

    Everybody does a cost/benefit analysis at their primitive level and those impulses are certainly feeding our higher processing.  That’s basically the thrust of this blog.  It manifests in the behaviours of men and women.  Women on some level feel like they need to maximize return, which is why their sex drive is so goal oriented, unlike a mans.  If you aren’t the best man she can get, on some level it makes sense that her primitive impulses are going to continue to give her a feeling of unease.

    On the other hand we do have that big cortex up top.  I definitely know women who date down and are very loyal.  Mostly these are dominant women.  So we do have free will and many women don’t just go around letting their cost/benefit analysis rule their lives.  Society doesn’t allow it for the most part and there is the risk of being too picky and ending up with nothing.  That’s another cost/benefit analysis that we do.

     

    What this means for dating and relationships though is that you may date up as a man, and she may actually choose you and be loyal to you in the monogamous sense, but her biology will always tell her she settled or could do better.  She doesn’t have to listen to it necessarily, but it could affect her thinking in ways she’s not really aware of (and guys have their own biological pressures obviously).

    Most guys know though how a woman feels towards them right from the start.  We have that gut feeling, we just learn not to listen to it unfortunately.  She’s telling you later later later?  She’s weighing her options?  She’s making you wait for this and that and for certain goals.  You aren’t the prize.  She isn’t really attracted to you.  You know it.  Listen to your gut.  This is why you should have other options, so you don’t demean yourself by constantly pursuing someone who may or may not settle for you if they don’t find better options.

    Finally, let’s say the 9/10 woman finds her top guy.  The one she’s been searching out for and that she feels is her match.  She won’t likely get better unless she marries some rich celebrity.  She’s CRAZY into him of course.  She will do anything to lock him down.  Now he’s the prize.  Even if she’s dominant and knows she is a 9/10, if it’s that right guy, she will be pursue him and there will be little excuses or rules.  The thing is though, how does that look in 3 years?  It looks EXACTLY the same as if she settled for a man she considered more ‘beta’.  They all end up in the same place.  THAT is the real issue and the reason for blogs like this.  Wherever you are on the alpha/beta scale, and whatever woman you end up with, she WILL eventually get sexual bored and then repulsed by you.  She can’t help it.  It’s biology.

    There is some comfort in that right?  The alphaest alpha will become a huge beta in her eyes if he commits to her monogomously.  She won’t hate him or necessarily cheat.  But, when she has achieved all of her goals, her drive will go as a result.  She will love him like she loves a cousin/uncle.  Like family instead of like a passionate partner.  Nobody likes that result and it doesn’t make anybody the bad guy.  It just is.  So your goal shouldn’t really be to find that unicorn who will date down for you and then commit to you faithfully.  In the end, she won’t want you anymore than she would the top guy she is theoretically capable of getting.  You should focus on improving to be the best you can, and then frame your relationships in a way that don’t make you feel unwanted, unloved, and pathetic.  Forget about your ego.  Forget about ‘happiness’.  Happiness is fleeting and you’ll forever chase it.  Thing long term contentedness and how best to structure you life for that.

  40. I currently have to rely on escorts because I’m absolutely terrible with women.  I hate myself for it.  I don’t go often.  So far this year only four times.  But each time, after the act, I feel terrible.  I’m trying to work on it and other aspects of my life though.

  41. I think the best way is the third option. But, you have to make a lot of money. If you are doing 6K+ a month, if you live in the third world, you are the king with that option.

    By the way, every man should read your book to understand these concepts in detail. I read it twice and recommended to my friends.

  42. By the way, every man should read your book to understand these concepts in detail. I read it twice and recommended to my friends.

    Glad I could help!

  43. @Blackdragon

    Glad I read your book! 🙂

    As a young man who wants to start a location-independent business, I am so glad I found your work.

    I will be a member of the Sovereign Man Inner Circle ASAP.

     

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