first date advice, first online date, online dating advice, meaning of an open relationship, alpha male traits

A female reader (Sassa) wrote in to me recently and asked some questions that I found very interesting. Women often write in and ask me for specific advice to follow, and sometimes I can’t answer those questions well because I’m on the other side of the table. However, Sassa’s questions all revolved around what men like or do not like in nonmonogamous relationships. Now that I can answer!

These topics also directly relate to you men in terms of managing these types of relationships, specifically how to structure an OLTR.

I read all your articles, I think them open minded. I have some questions in mind and I would appreciate if you can make an article about women and their attitude to an open long-term relationship.

 

1. When, based on your way of thinking is she right to become a MLTR or OLTR to a Man’s life?

The most important difference in the qualifications of a woman in an MLTR vs. an OLTR is that a woman must qualify for an OLTR over a period of several months. A woman must also “qualify” for an MLTR as well, but it doesn’t take any time and the standards aren’t super high; I can make her an MLTR within a week of first having sex with her if I want.

If I meet a new woman, have sex with her two or three times with minimal effort, and it’s clear to me that she’s not a dumb bimbo, or hopeless drug addict, or drama queen, or has a lot of problems in her life, then boom, she’s an MLTR. No qualification period needed; she just needs to be a normal woman.

If she’s a problematic woman, that’s fine too. She’ll just be an FB. I love my FBs, even the crazy ones. As long as they don’t give me drama, I’m in, and I’m there to stay.

Sometimes I can be wrong, and a woman I made an MLTR really should have been an FB. I’ve made this mistake before and I’m sure I will again. No prob. I just downgrade her to FB. If she bitches about it, she gets a soft next and I continue on my merry way, having sex with other women and focusing on my Mission, which is more important than any woman and always will be.

OLTR is very different. With an OLTR, I’ve made commitments and promises. I’ve actually chosen to limit my behavior, at least to some degree. With an MLTR, I haven’t made promises or commitments at all. Thus, only the most consistently well-behaved women qualify for an OLTR, at least in my world. How do I know if she’s consistently well-behaved if I’ve only been dating her for just a few weeks?

The answer is, I don’t.

For most of my life, I’ve had a three-month rule, which states this: Anyone can be nice for a month or two, but no one can fake it for three months. Even the biggest asshole or biggest raging bitch can pretend to play it cool for a few weeks, but I’ve never seen anyone keep this up for three months straight. At three months at the very latest, the comfort starts to set in, the armor starts to crack, and the real person is finally revealed. At three months, you pretty much know what you’re dealing with. Before that, you really don’t.

This is why it’s absolutely insane to watch people constantly getting into committed relationships when they’ve been dating some new person for less than three months. STUPID! You’re asking for problems and drama. But the world being what it is, problems and drama are what most people like, so as always, I let people live a world of pain if that’s what they want. I have better things to concern myself with.

In my world, at three to five months, it’s time for The Talk, where I clearly verbalize for the first time that I’m not monogamous and never will be. She already knew this of course, via my rock-solid, nonmonogamous, Alpha 2.0 EFA, but this is the first time I’m actually saying it.

If she wants to be my OLTR, she needs to not only survive this talk, but agree to it. It’s one of the core requirements for OLTR. I will love her, love only her, be pair-bonded to her, but I’m going to get a little on the side occasionally. Because duh, I’m a man. Fair is fair, so she can too if she absolutely needs to, within whatever ground rules we set together.

Because I consciously do everything else correctly in my open/poly relationships, these days I have an over 80% success rate when I have The Talk with a woman, so it’s not a big deal. (If you’re a man and want to learn exactly how to do all this, get this ebook here.)

Then, I need to wait another three months to ensure these three things:

1. She really does want to go along with a nonmonogamous relationship based on maturity and honesty instead of a monogamous relationship based on lying, scarcity, and false Societal Programming. In other words, I have to make sure she’s not saying she wants it just because she doesn’t want to lose me; she has to truly be willing to go along with a long-term relationship like this.

2. She sticks around. Gotta make sure she doesn’t LSNFTE me for a nearby beta male who will happily hand over his balls to her and promise monogamy. This is very common.

3. She can handle a sexually open relationship with a minimum of drama and jealousy. I understand everyone is human, can have bad days, and be a little jealous sometimes. A little is okay. Any more than a little, and she’s no longer qualified for OLTR.

After three months of that, she’s now my OLTR (if I choose). This means I’m waiting for a good 6-12 months between the first time we have sex and when she’s officially my OLTR. The last OLTR I had took over two years (!) to become my OLTR. She was an FB for over a year, then graduated for MLTR, and then she became an OLTR.

I see too many guys meeting a new girl who is Not Like The Rest™ and instantly making her their OLTR. This is a mistake. My “wait to make sure before making her your OLTR” advice is probably the most ignored advice I give. And men always pay the price for ignoring it.

As you can see, OLTR is a big deal. It’s a world away from MLTR. If I’m actually going to make promises and commitments to a woman, and cut off all other women (besides FBs) in my life, she’d better not only be amazing, but prove via actions and not promises. That takes time.

2. What are the things she would avoid to keep the relationship happy and open?

That’s easy:

1. Drama

2. Jealousy

3. Demands (“You need to text me more often!” “You need to take me out more often!” “You need to put ‘In A Relationship’ with me on Facebook!” “You need to spend more time with me!”)

That’s about it for me. I can tolerate just about any other negative behavior from a woman besides the above three. Other men who are closer to the beta male or Alpha Male 1.0 sides of the scale would add other things to this list such as:

– Lying

– Restricting sex

– Disrespect

– Flirting with other guys

I’m an outcome independent Alpha Male 2.0, so I don’t care if a woman lies to me or doesn’t do what she’s told. I’ll just smile, downgrade her, and go have sex with someone else. Betaish guys, Alpha Male 1.0s, or aspiring 2.0s who still lean in the beta or 1.0 direction, are all going to have huge problems with a woman who is dishonest or “disrespectful,” so it depends on the guy.

3. What makes a man happy in a non monogamous relationship?

The women who have made me the most happy in my life are women who were:

1. Very sexual. This means women with higher sex drives who need sex often, who were submissive and flexible sexually.

2. Very happy. My favorite women, by far, are those who are smiling and happy most of the time. So many women these days are so stressed out and/or pissed off about so many things. A truly happy woman has the edge over all of them. Frankly, and I hate to say this, this is why Asian women often kick the asses of women of all other races when it comes to getting men. They’re just…happier, and men love happy women. (My favorite women, by far, are big-boobed blondes, but curvy Asians are my second fav.)

3. Very girly and feminine. Most people operate on an inverse scale of attraction, meaning more masculine men prefer more girly, feminine women. I’m extremely masculine, so I love girly girls who smile, giggle, wear dresses, love crap like unicorns and the color pink, spend hours putting on makeup, and do all that other girly shit. I can’t help it. It just turns me on even if it irritates me. A woman who exhibits these behaviors in a relationship will keep me much happier than a more butch chick who acts like a dude. (I’ve had happy relationships with those kinds of women too, so don’t get me wrong; I’m just specifying my favorite.)

On the flip side, two of my brothers have personalities that lie much closer to the feminine side of the scale. Thus, they’re turned on by tough, dominant women who look, act, and dress more androgynously. I’m not saying these women are ugly, or even masculine, but they’re certainly not girly. The point is you can usually tell what a man is attracted to and likes if you take the opposite of what he is.

4. What turns him off?

Every man will have a different answer for that question. The number one thing that turns me off is demands. When a woman starts to issue demands or try to boss me around, my dick wilts like a dandelion in the snow, and I start looking for the nearest exit. This is why it’s so difficult for me to go out on dates with women over age 33, since demanding obedience is a de facto societal standard with that age group.

I hate drama more than most other men on planet Earth, but drama just annoys me and takes away my happiness. However, demands actually turn me off. A woman barking an order at me instantly eliminates any sexual desire I had for her faster than just about anything else she could do, even if she’s super hot. Seriously. Demands are my anti-Viagra.

Again though, every man will have a different “big turnoff” based on his own personality, so be aware of this.

5. How often should a female make true the male’s fantasies?

However often he needs it, and again, every guy is going to be different about this. Some guys need that fantasy stuff all the time. If you’re with a man like this, get used to it and get comfortable with it.

I’ve already lived all of my sexual fantasies in real life bazillions of times, so I don’t need any “fantasy” when I have sex or spend time with a woman. I’m also pretty brainless during sex, since that’s the only time I let my inner caveman out to play, so I usually don’t have the presence of mind to do things like role-play or any of that stuff during sex. But hey, that’s me. Tons of men are really into that stuff.

Thus my answer: However often he needs it.

Lastly, I have something in the works that will help people like you. More on this in later in the month. Stay tuned.

43 Comments on “What Men Like In Relationships

  1. I know I’m asking a lot but…………how good it would be if having agreed to an arrangement for the relationship, a woman would stop trying to alter it. This makes no sense to me as it is the woman who loses out by being asked to leave. So not only does she not get what she wants, she ends up with nothing.

    Ah logic! 😀

  2. @BD

    This post fascinates me. It raises three questions I am curious about:

    1. How many OLTRs have you had?
    2. How long have your OLTRs lasted (from the time they became OLTRs and not since you first met them)?
    3. What was the cause (generally) of the OLTR ending or being downgraded to MLTR or FB status?

    @Al

    Oh I don’t know. Are most men really that different? I have seen many a man try to change his woman or her behavior and the nature of their relationship. The most obvious one of course is the “friend ploy” where a guy agrees to be friend-zoned (like an idiot) but is just waiting for her to have a moment of weakness. But I have also seen guys agree to a casual relationship with a woman they are more into than the woman is into them as a way to try to “prove to her” how great they are (again, like an idiot).

    I think it more boils down to who holds the power in the relationship. If the man is a bit out of his league, he is more likely to agree to things he isn’t really ok with. The more out of his league he is the more he will tolerate. And it works the same with women. Just my $0.02 worth.

  3. @BD

    Actually I thought of a 4th question.

    I know you have stated you would live with a woman under certain conditions. What criteria would have to be met for the woman to upgrade from OLTR to live-in OLTR?

  4. How many OLTRs have you had?

    Just one. My drama tolerance is so low that getting a girl to OTLR status is difficult for me. Most men aren’t going to have this problem. I’ve had an additional three MLTRs who were very close to OLTR.

    On the flip side, you don’t want “lots” of OLTRs in your past. If you’ve had 10 OLTRs, something is wrong.

    How long have your OLTRs lasted (from the time they became OLTRs and not since you first met them)?

    For the one, total relationship time: 5.5 years. Total OLTR time: About 3.5 years(?), perhaps a little less.

    What was the cause (generally) of the OLTR ending or being downgraded to MLTR or FB status?

    Drama.

    I know you have stated you would live with a woman under certain conditions. What criteria would have to be met for the woman to upgrade from OLTR to live-in OLTR?

    Extremely low-drama, zero demands, and zero LSNFTEs for an entire 12 months straight (at least). And I have to really like her. I’d also prefer she’s at least over the age of 23.

  5. Thanks BD, great post!

    I have a few questions related to this post.

    1. In your experience what percentage of women in there 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s go for being a MLTR?

    2.In previous posts and in you ebooks you state that we should only see our MLTR once a week.  Since most women I had sex with want to see me more than once a week, what percentage of women you have had sex with don’t mind seeing you once a week?

    3.  Lastly, since Friday and Saturday are usually date nights, which of your MLTRs get to see you on Friday and Saturday?  Don’t the others complain about never seeing you on Friday or Saturday?  The last time I asked you this question about 3 years ago, you said the weekends were for you kids so you don’t date on those days. Now that your kids are older is this still true?

    Thanks

     

     

  6. – Lying
    – Restricting sex
    – Disrespect

    You do have a problem with these or you wouldn’t downgrade a chick that does them. The difference between 2.0 and 1.0/beta here is that the 1.0/beta throws drama when it happens, while you downgrade and move on. If a chick wants to be an OLTR, as sassa’s question implied, she can’t do those things. (I think “not lying” is pretty universal, but disrespect and restricting sex depends on the guy and relationship)

  7. Silly lies, some jealously that hides insecurity or the fear of losing, and sometimes not being in the mood for sex (SOMETIMES, like in 1 out of 10 times you see her) are not death. Disrespect is something I can tolerate unless it’s dramatic, also not letting her affect you with stupid insults or attitudes is a HUGE DHV; being impervious to whatever she may say is something really, really powerful and useful.

    But, the way I see it, heavy jealously (trying to control), heavy lying (dramatic lying) and restricting sex (also desire to control, ridiculous…) are all forms of drama, and are serious offenses. I automatically start taking my distance when a woman can’t behave like a grownup and resolve things via talking.

  8. @BD

    I am trying to understand what your greater than 80% success rate means when having “The Talk” since you have only had 1 OLTR and 4 MLTRs (including the one that became an OLTR). Does that mean 80% of the women agree to not being monogamous but all but one of the “successful talks” ended up with them:

    1. Just telling you want you wanted to hear to not lose you and you realized it

    2. She was just biding her time until she found a beta provider and then LSNFTE-ed you.

    3. Got too jealous / drama for you

    If 4 out of 5 don’t convert from OLTR prospect to an actual OLTR (or even MLTR) that seems like a very low success rate. Unless what you are saying is that 80% of the women you had The Talk with became an OLTR or MLTR but that means you only had The Talk with 5 women total over 10+ years and hundreds of women and that seems unlikely. 

    I guess what I am trying to ask is that even if someone does things just about perfectly what percent of women in your experience will remain in your life for any reasonable period of time after The Talk? I am not sure if you are saying it is 80% or something different. I personally never have The Talk unless it is forced by the woman because in my experience very very few stay around very long after The Talk and I want to know if your experience is different than mine. They do often boomerang a few times after something more steady has ended but almost no one stays around on a consistent basis when they are told point-blank they aren’t and won’t be the only woman you are sleeping with.

  9. @ Dawson.

    Oh I don’t know. Are most men really that different? I have seen many a man try to change his woman or her behavior and the nature of their relationship………..

    My point wasn’t really a “men versus woman” comment. It was in answer to Sassa’s questions, viz: what turns a man off etc. Of course men get blown around in the breeze, as I did some years back. And I gave up trying to change anyone years ago too. You can’t change people. End of. But it is a major turn off when someone starts to ask for more time together or exclusivity etc.

    While I’m here I’ll add this: The woman who attracts me most is a woman who really is independent. In every regard. One who really doesn’t actually need me at all for anything. That means that the relationship is based on attraction and mutual benefit; not neediness of any sort. I’ve only known two women in this category in my entire life. We had great times but still didn’t make it past about 3 years.

  10. In your experience what percentage of women in there 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s go for being a MLTR?

    I’d have to go through my spreadsheets for a specific answer, but rough guess:

    40+: 5%

    30s: 20%

    20s: 75%

    This is MLTRs mind you, not FBs. FBs run the gamut of all ages pretty much equally based on the ages I sleep with.

    Also realize these percentages are very skewed because I don’t cold-approach women over age 33.

    In previous posts and in you ebooks you state that we should only see our MLTR once a week.

    Correct. Ultra-important.

    Since most women I had sex with want to see me more than once a week, what percentage of women you have had sex with don’t mind seeing you once a week?

    I don’t care what women “mind.” I care about what works in building a long-term happy relationship. So 100% of the women I have in MLTRs I see once a week, even if they initially don’t like it. Many of them don’t mind, many do mind, but the ones that mind get used to it pretty quick (or LSNFTE, and then come back later).

    Lastly, since Friday and Saturday are usually date nights, which of your MLTRs get to see you on Friday and Saturday?

    I do this differently than most other guys. I don’t date on weekends (usually). I keep weekends for personal and family time, and see women during the week.

    Don’t the others complain about never seeing you on Friday or Saturday?

    Never.

    The last time I asked you this question about 3 years ago, you said the weekends were for you kids so you don’t date on those days. Now that your kids are older is this still true?

    Yes. I don’t spend time with my kids so much these days as just have personal or work time on the weekends. It’s just the schedule I’m accustomed to.

    – Lying

    – Restricting sex

    – Disrespect

    You do have a problem with these or you wouldn’t downgrade a chick that does them.

    Yeah, I didn’t word that well. I’ll re-state:

    1. I don’t care if a woman lies to me as long as the lie doesn’t put me in physical jeopardy and as long as it’s done sweetly. A woman sweetly lying to me is not drama, as I clearly state in my Glossary for the definition of drama:

    Drama – Any harsh negative actions directed from a woman to man where the man is the target of said negativity. Screaming, nagging, complaining, arguing, demands, crying “at you”, threats, ultimatums, the “silent treatment”, refusing sex because of non-medical reasons, all of these things are drama, and there are many others. Drama is not “anything negative”. Specifically, it must be harsh (sweetly lying would not be considered drama) and focused at the man (angrily complaining about her boss at work would not be considered drama). Drama is a female trait. (Men have guy-drama.)

    2. Restricting sex is virtually never a problem I have in my relationships. That’s part of the monogamy world. So it’s a non-issue for me. I can’t remember the last time I tried to have sex with an FB or MLTR and she actually said no.

    Now, if I had a live-in OLTR, then this would probably eventually happen. Not because she lost attraction, but because she had a bad day, or was upset with me, or some other feminine reason.

    Not a problem., because I would plan well in advance for this and have 1-2 FBs on the side to take care of my needs if it did occur.

    3. I don’t care at all about disrespect unless it falls into the above definition of drama. I don’t need “respect” from a woman. I need happiness and sex, that’s all. I get more than enough respect in my business life.

    Read this article here for more clarity on what I will or will not tolerate from a woman.

    I am trying to understand what your greater than 80% success rate means when having “The Talk” since you have only had 1 OLTR and 4 MLTRs (including the one that became an OLTR).

    No no no. I’ve had something like 25 MLTRs, probably more. I said I had 3 MLTRs that were close to an OLTR, not 3 MLTRs total. Yikes.

    Does that mean 80% of the women agree to not being monogamous but all but one of the “successful talks” ended up with them:

    Over 80% agreed to keep seeing me in a nonmonogamous MLTR (not FB; the Talk doesn’t really happen with FBs) and kept on seeing me for many months or years before the first LSNFTE.

    If 4 out of 5 don’t convert from OLTR prospect to an actual OLTR (or even MLTR) that seems like a very low success rate.

    Your numbers are wrong from the above correction. Regardless I’m not sure what you mean. The Talk has nothing whatsoever to do with converting MLTR to OLTR. That’s a completely different talk that (I think) I’ve only had once, maybe twice.

    I guess what I am trying to ask is that even if someone does things just about perfectly what percent of women in your experience will remain in your life for any reasonable period of time after The Talk?

    80%

    I personally never have The Talk unless it is forced by the woman because in my experience very very few stay around very long after The Talk and I want to know if your experience is different than mine.

    Common problem. This means that you’re not following all the other open/poly rules during the relationship (only see her once a week, no boyfriend behaviors, no fancy dates, no spending a lot of cash, she orgasms every time you fuck, avoid initiating contact, etc, etc).

    The Talk is not a magic wand that just makes girls nonomonogamous. It is the end result of you doing everything else correctly in the relationship, starting with the very first date.

     

  11. @BD

    OK I get it now but I still want to understand the “funnel” better.

    If I read correctly you have MLTRs that become MLTRs after only a few dates but The Talk happens 3 – 5 months in. What percent of MLTRs last the 3 – 5 months?

    I know you said it can be months or years but on average how long does an MLTR stay in your life post “The Talk?”

     

  12. If I read correctly you have MLTRs that become MLTRs after only a few dates but The Talk happens 3 – 5 months in.

    Correct.

    What percent of MLTRs last the 3 – 5 months?

    Again I’d have to go through the spreadsheets and make some calculations for a specific answer, but my close guess would be 75%.

    I know you said it can be months or years but on average how long does an MLTR stay in your life post “The Talk?”

    Inconsistently with nexts and LSNFTEs? Many, many years.

    Consistently before the first LSNFTE? The last time I calculated it, which was a few years ago, the average was about a year and half. I posted some of that data here.

     

  13. @BD

    OK so if you have had 25ish MTLRs (I will add 20% and make it 30) and approximately 75% of MLTRs make it to The Talk that means over a 10+ year period you have only met 40 women (30 / .75) that you were attracted to, weren’t stupid, weren’t drama or drug addicts?

    That’s less than 4 a year. Do I have that right? Just seems like a low number

    My next question is what do you like so much about an OLTR and why do you seem to desire one so much. You have only had one and it only lasted the 3 plus years you often quote when boredom sets in. And you didn’t live with your one OLTR so what is the driver? It doesn’t seem to be familiarity because you have that with MLTRs too. Same with intelligence and lack of drama. Is it the ability to relax the rules a bit like seeing them more than once a week? Is it being able to say you love each other and have someone to take to events? That doesn’t seem like you. In your words:

    I will love her, love only her, be pair-bonded to her

    Since you have so rarely had one (literally one) and it didn’t last particularly long what is the added benefit you see from an OLTR over a MLTR? How does it enhance your happiness? What is the benefit of being temporarily pair-bonded with a woman for a few months or years?

  14. Your OLTR rate seems to be low.  I’m going to make a few guesstimates here.  Lets say you’ve been on 300 dates and used your 2% online response rate to get those 300 dates.  That means you had to send first messages to 15,000 women to get 1 OLTR.  You could change these numbers a bit but it seems like an OLTR is very rare.

  15. OK so if you have had 25ish MTLRs (I will add 20% and make it 30) and approximately 75% of MLTRs make it to The Talk that means over a 10+ year period you have only met 40 women (30 / .75) that you were attracted to, weren’t stupid, weren’t drama or drug addicts?

    That’s less than 4 a year. Do I have that right? Just seems like a low number

    Yeah, about four a year (on average over almost a decade) sounds about right. That would be an average of four *new* MLTRs a year, since I’m always already seeing old MLTRs.

    As I’ve said many times, my goal is not to fuck a lot of women. That’s never been my goal. I’m a Pleasure of Sex guy. My goal is to have sex literally whenever I want with minimal effort (just by sending a text) without paying for hookers and without promising anyone monogamy. Four new MLTRs a year (plus all the FBs on top of that) is more than enough to satisfy that goal.

    And you didn’t live with your one OLTR so what is the driver?

    Love and a connection only possible when you pair bond with someone.

    MLTR and FB are not pair bonding. OLTR is.

    Is it the ability to relax the rules a bit like seeing them more than once a week?

    Eh, not really, but I suppose you could add it to the list of benefits, sure.

    Is it being able to say you love each other and have someone to take to events? That doesn’t seem like you.

    No. I can say I love you to an MLTR and also take MLTRs to events and have done both of those things. (Only high-end MLTRs though.)

    What is the benefit of being temporarily pair-bonded with a woman for a few months or years?

    (Change that to “years”, not “a few months”; I agree being pair bonded “a few months” would be dumb.)

    Really? You really don’t know? Have you ever been pair-bonded to a woman? There’s is a high and a rush and a feeling of connection that is only possible if you’re pair bonded (unless you’re a rare exception to the rule, and you may be one).

    I don’t need an OLTR, but one would be nice. However if I never had another OLTR again for the rest of my life I’d still be very happy.

    Your OLTR rate seems to be low.

    Yes, it’s more than low. It’s extremely, ridiculously low… for me. As I’ve said before, I’m a weird mutant when it comes to drama tolerance. I’m so anti-drama (more so than other Alpha 2.0s) that it’s very rare for me to get to the point where I will tolerate an OLTR, because OLTR = a little more drama. Even the thought of a little more drama makes me cringe.

    And as I’ve also said above, most men are not going to have this problem. This is an issue with just me. Lots of guys over at the Sedfast forum have or had OLTRs, as do a lot of regular commenters at this blog. I’m just an intolerant asshole when it comes to woman-drama. Perhaps as I get older this intolerance will mellow. We’ll see. I’m not super concerned about it either way.

  16. @BD

    So you have only felt love and connection with one woman in over 10 years?

    And no I guess I don’t know what you mean. I have felt love (well I actually call it deep affection because love is a loaded word IMO) and connection with many women over the years. Not a year goes by where I don’t find that with 3 women at least. I don’t need it to be a primary relationship (OLTR in your lingo) for me to feel deep affection and connection.

    And I said months OR years. I called it a temporary pair-bond because it is a few years at most.

    I find a much greater rush and high in getting to know someone new…their mind and their body(NRE I think you call it) and I find that I learn from every new person I meet in a way I don’t from someone I know well. When I have been with someone for years I have never felt that “rush” but more comfort and predictability and I find that it makes both people more complacent and willing to tolerate more drama and bullshit.

    I too can’t stand drama which is why I have no interest in an OLTRs but have lots of MLTRs because as you say OLTR = more drama…even a little isn’t worth it to me and since I find much less of a rush versus more there simply isn’t an upside for me. My MLTR rules are different though as I can easily see them 2-3x some weeks or weekends if they are LD.

    But to each his own. Thanks for your candid answers.

  17. So you have only felt love and connection with one woman in over 10 years?

    No. Where did I say that? I’ve been in love twice since shifting to this lifestyle and I’ve felt deep connection about five times(?) on top of that.

    But the level of connection in a pair-bonded relationship, that I’ve only felt once, maybe twice, since shifting to these lifestyle.

    I can still feel love and deep connection without pair-bonding. But with pair-bonding, there is a noticeable difference.

    And no I guess I don’t know what you mean

    I think you should stop trying to “get it.” I think your emotions work differently than mine.

    I have felt love (well I actually call it deep affection because love is a loaded word IMO) and connection with many women over the years. Not a year goes by where I don’t find that with 3 women at least.

    Heh. Yep, confirmed. If you feel love for three women a year, you and I work VERY differently. I take months and months to feel real love for a woman, and it happens extremely rarely.

    Every guy is different.

    I find a much greater rush and high in getting to know someone new…their mind and their body(NRE I think you call it)

    Absolutely yes. That’s NRE, which is indeed far more pleasurable than love.

    But NRE is not love.

     

  18. @BD

    I was quoting you or so I thought:

    Love and a connection only possible when you pair bond with someone.
    MLTR and FB are not pair bonding. OLTR is.

    Am I not reading you correctly? You say love and connection is ONLY possible when you pair bond and ONLY OLTRs are pair bonding and you have only had one OLTR. You specifically say that you believe MLTRs and FBs aren’t pair bonding. What am I missing here?

    But based on your last post:

    I can still feel love and deep connection without pair-bonding. But with pair-bonding, there is a noticeable difference.

    How is it noticeably different? It seems like a pretty damn important point…perhaps you and I do feel differently but I am curious how it is different to you?

    We may not be that different. Yon only see your MLTRs once a week max and I might see mine 2-3x a week. Three a year would be 4 months each but that would be 8-12 months in BD months at once a week. 🙂

    I guess it boils down to the word “love” which is tricky because it almost never means the same thing to any two people. I can absolutely have deep, value-based affection for a woman after a month or two if I am seeing her regularly and we have a strong mental, emotional and physical connection. I guess I don’t understand what you mean by love somehow being more than that. What takes months or years to develop into love for you? Trust? Consistency?

  19. I should have said “a love and connection only possible…” The love is different when pair bonded.

    We may not be that different. Yon only see your MLTRs once a week max and I might see mine 2-3x a week. Three a year would be 4 months each but that would be 8-12 months in BD months at once a week. 🙂

    Haha, noooo. Being in love with three women a year vs being in love with two women in the last 8 years? Not even close. We’re completely different. Which also explains why you’re having a hard time getting this while I think it’s “normal.”

    I guess it boils down to the word “love” which is tricky because it almost never means the same thing to any two people.

    True.

    I can absolutely have deep, value-based affection for a woman after a month or two if I am seeing her regularly and we have a strong mental, emotional and physical connection.

    That is not love, at least not to me. I feel what you’re describing much more often than love. Love is something on a spiritual level.

    What takes months or years to develop into love for you? Trust? Consistency?

    A level of connection, beyond what you’re talking about, that for me, takes many months to form. I do know other men can form this connection much faster though.

    But now you’re asking me to define love, and I’m not going to be able to do it in a way you’ll understand. The only way I can answer it is that the deep connection you’re talking about (that I can experience with MLTRs) is on the emotional and mental level. LOVE is that plus on a spiritual, transcendent level. That’s the best I can do to explain it. Don’t ask me to clarify further; I can’t (in a way you’d clearly understand).

  20. @BD

    Ok. Not to belabor the point and then I promise to shut up.

    Are you saying that you can experience spiritual, transcendent love with both MLTRs and OLTRs or only OLTRs? Because you seem to have said both things and now I am a bit confused. Or maybe you are saying you can experience spiritual, transcendent love with some MLTRs and your one OLTR.

    If you are saying you can experience it with both MLTRs and OLTRs you are also saying you can experience spiritual and transcendent love with more than one person at a time (several in fact) which I thought you said you couldn’t…that you could only love one person at at time.

    Because it does seem odd that someone could experience something spiritual and transcendent with someone you see once a week at most (which I understand is your hard limit with MLTRs).

    Ok. Now I will shut up.

  21. BD,

    I heard about your relationship spreadsheet a lot, I myself love tracking progress through a spreadsheet too, any chance you could show us the template or the important areas to get record?

    Best regards,

  22. thanx BD for your article. I think it is a help to genders to estimate what each want and need in an open relationship.. I would only like to add that women above all, appreciate true communication.

  23. I would only like to add that women above all, appreciate true communication.

    Actually I find this to be NOT true at all.  Women only appreciate true communication where either nothing of any consequence is said (idle chitchat), or where things go their way. Unexpected or hurtful truth are, if anything, a lot less appreciated by women than by men.

    Just my experience…

  24.  

     Women only appreciate true communication where either nothing of any consequence is said (idle chitchat), or where things go their way.

    Hugo

    true communication doesnt necessary means tell everything anytime.neither honesty means such a thing.

    Communication means to reveal your needs, to have open ears to hear other s needs, to understand timing, and when a wall is appeared to have the courage to express the reason for walking away or the patience to overpass it.

    And true communication doesnt always get to forfil wishes.

     

  25. @Sasa

    “I would only like to add that women above all, appreciate true communication.”  As stated in the comments above, I find that women only like honest open communication when it’s what they want to hear.  If it goes against their Disney expectations, they don’t respond well.

  26. Are you saying that you can experience spiritual, transcendent love with both MLTRs and OLTRs or only OLTRs?

    Both MLTRs and OLTRs. But that love is going to have a stronger foundation with an OLTR. It’s going to be on an even higher level.

    If you are saying you can experience it with both MLTRs and OLTRs you are also saying you can experience spiritual and transcendent love with more than one person at a time (several in fact) which I thought you said you couldn’t…that you could only love one person at at time.

    Correct. I can only experience real love with ONE woman at a time. I think this is true of 98% of men, if they’re being honest.

    Because it does seem odd that someone could experience something spiritual and transcendent with someone you see once a week at most (which I understand is your hard limit with MLTRs).

    It’s not odd at all. Love has nothing to do with number of hours spent with each other per week. Though it is rare, granted. Again, only twice in the last near-decade for me.

    Ok. Now I will shut up.

    Ha! You??? Wanna bet? 🙂

    I heard about your relationship spreadsheet a lot, I myself love tracking progress through a spreadsheet too, any chance you could show us the template or the important areas to get record?

    I’ve published my online dating spreadsheets but never my relationship ones, because A) there’s so many, B) they’re full of names, and C) there’s tons of codes, organization, and formatting that would be meaningless to anyone else reading them. It would take me a while to clean those up for public use. Maybe someday.

    Women only appreciate true communication where either nothing of any consequence is said (idle chitchat), or where things go their way. Unexpected or hurtful truth are, if anything, a lot less appreciated by women than by men.

    True, but Sassa is also partially correct. “Communication” in a female context is mostly about the man listening, eliciting, nodding, but not saying much.

     

  27. Haha charming BD, researches show that women use approximately 20.000 words daily and men just 7.000. It is a DNA issue that men tent to talk less

  28. I’m a girl and I have a question and I think it relates to what men like in relationships.  BD had a post in the past about porn and one of the things he said was that women in real life don’t act anything like the women in porn.  But, can anyone expand on that answer and tell us how most women do act?  Because I only know how I act, whether it’s normal or not, I may never know but, I’ve had a guy tell me if I wanted to know how to be good in bed, that I should watch porn.  So unfortunately, I think a lot of guys think porn is real and normal and that’s what they expect and like in a relationship or else they are disappointed.

  29. This is a great post.

    I wholeheartedly agree that any type of HAPPY relationship with a female cannot have drama, jealousy, and demands. Problem is (as we know), most people are not happy and actually yearn for such things. After reading the Alpha Male 2.0, happiness became my pinnacle goal, and everything I have done since has been structured around that.

  30. @Bulma78

    I totally disagree. Lots of women fuck like pornstars. Obviously it depends on what kind of porn you are watching.

    How to give an amazing blowjob? Porn is a great way to learn.

    How to do a lot of interesting positions? Porn is a great way to learn.

    If you are into BDSM at all? Porn is also very instructional.

    When I have had threesomes, seeing what women did in porn was very helpful to all three of us and we sent each other links to videos we liked before we hooked up.

    Gangbangs and stuff like that…not so much. Just my $0.02 worth.

  31. @ Bulma 78 and anyone else.

    What do men like? Sex. Often. And not always with the same woman.

    If sex isn’t brilliant the first time with a new partner, then there are lots of ways to improve it. It can be fun finding out. We all have something to teach and something to learn.

    The worst thing a woman can do is just lie there and not move at all and act like a receptacle (though I guess some men wouldn’t mind this.)

    A married couple in their eighties are having a walk in the country. They pause at a gate into a field where there are 20 cows and 1 bull. The bull proceeds to serve every one of the cows in turn without stopping.

    The wife says, “Did you see that? Such masculinity, such strength and performance! Twenty times in a row!”

    The husband replies, “Yes, and did you notice? It was never the same cow twice.” 😀

  32. @Kryptokate
    thank you for the information.. Still based on experience a man sais what he wants using 10 words and women for the same issue use 100 words, analyzing every element..
    @CrabRangoon

    If it goes against their Disney expectations, they don’t respond well.

    communication can act miracles. day by day the expectation fall little by little and also man restriction do the same. needs time, pursue and good mood 
    PS: but thinking it twice i rephrase woman need AND good communication except all others…
    And if i may @Bulma78 girl, let your fantasy and sensual side ride free. Express your self, experiment with your body and with your desires.Porno is not bad to see but dont count just on that. Dont be shy to go beyond your ethical-social limits.Have limits but must be your own ones and to succeed that try all the things you have on mind

  33. Dawson, Al, & Sasa – Thank you.

    Dawson, I was kind of expecting to hear a response like that from someone and I agree.  (I watched porn to learn how to be good at blowjobs).  It is necessary because that is what most guys want.  I don’t think it’s in everyone’s nature to act wild & crazy, but we want to please the people we are with, so I guess that is what it takes.  Girls watch porn too, so they want to act that way to impress guys and show off or whatever.

    Al & Sasa,  Alot of that kind of stuff comes in time with comfort I’ve found.

  34. About Porn.

    Porn is fiction. Not so much to do with reality; rather with the desire of the male watchers to  jerk off fast. It is about sexual release, the lowest form of sex. Has got nothing to do with satisfaction, nevermind “lovemaking”.

    The idea of porn is NOT sex education. There are great resources available online for both males and females who want to learn the art of fucking.

    The old chinese emperors knew a lot more about these things than modern day porn stars. A lot more.

    This is where i would look first if i was 20 and just starting out on this journey.

     

     

     

  35. @Maldek

    Maybe you could share a few links to some of the better “old Chinese emperor” sexual guidance you have learned from that you can recommend.

  36. Just one observation. How can you be on the dating scene for 10 years, considering that you were divorced in 2007? Unless you weren’t completely monogamous to your wife back then, of course.

  37. Dawson Stone said it and you didn’t deny it. But maybe he meant 10 years in total, not continuous.

  38. Dawson Stone said it and you didn’t deny it.

    Dude are you serious? Read the definition of a nitpicker here and please stop wasting my time.

  39. I am a grown ass woman , and I absolutely love these articles. I finally feel like I am understood and so is my man. Who can I talk to about all of thIs and be understood?? Really no one. Your a genius and so is my alpha who I love adoringly.
    Most women don’t understand all of this, but it suits me perfectly and I feel most free with all of our honesty and truth. I don’t want to live lies in a relationship and as much as this goes against my moral code. IT WORKS. it’s true and real.
    You are my man(just like him). He does all of this naturally, so now I understand him even more.
    Even though your out there and crazy, your so immensely spot on. I was married for years like you and I’m an older woman, (40’s. Lol)
    But this is the only way I can be free.
    You are truth black dragon. So refreshing.
    🙂

  40. And …I was married for 20 years and we never and I mean NEVER watched porn. My views are different now and I watch it often now with my man. But when I was first divorced and new to dating and sex with multiple men, I enjoyed myself immensely and had many (MANY)lovers. I found out that I was quite incredible in bed and different from most women , and extremely good at everything I did. Honestly, over and over men loved being with me because of my passion , skills, sounds and unabandon. Unlike any other women, they had ever been with.
    Then when I did watch porn I realized how different I was and how phony the women seemed. I was glad I wasn’t schooled by porn.
    I love that my sex is organic. And self taught and what a many truly craves and desires. I
    Personally believe every woman can be her own teacher when she opens up to loving sex, enjoying it and her pleasure is king along with the mans. If all women watch porn for schooling you’ll have every women doing the same thing.
    Boring.
    Boring.

Leave a Reply

To leave a comment, enter your comment below. PLEASE make sure to read the commenting rules before commenting, since failure to follow these rules means your comment may be deleted. Also please do not use the username “Anonymous” or “Anon” or any variation thereof (makes things too confusing).

Off-topic comments are allowed, but Caleb will ignore those.

Caleb responds to comments in person, but he only does so on the two most current blog articles.

Related Posts

Begin typing your search term above and press enter to search.