I have discussed the topic of slut shaming on this blog before, and I also analyzed it in the Alpha Male 2.0 book. Today, I’m going to respond to two specific points that slut shamers often make which I have not delved into before.

I’ll state my bias right up front. I think that women who have lots of sex, or have sex with multiple men, are not bad. On the contrary, I think they’re quite wonderful, and bring happiness to many men, as well as themselves. Of course there are caveats to this, as I’ve discussed before in the links above. These women need to be using condoms and need to be taking care of their personal safely and sexual health. They also should not be getting pregnant so that I’m forced at gunpoint to pay for their accidental spawn via my tax dollars.

So as long as they behave like responsible adults, women who have a lot of sex with dudes are awesome in my book. I wish there were more of them, particularly those women over age 33.

Now let’s tackle some slut shaming arguments.

The Egg vs Sperm Argument

Slut shamers will say that it’s perfectly fine for men to have sex with a lot of women, but it’s bad for women to have sex with a lot of men. Why? Because women only drop one egg per month and have a very limited supply, while men make millions of sperm a day and have an unlimited supply. Therefore, it is somehow natural for men to have many sexual partners and unnatural for women to have many partners.

Here’s the problem: What the fuck does that have to do with anything in the 21st century?

If this was the middle ages, and there was no birth control, no STD protection, no abortion, no adoption systems, no vasectomies, and no non-married child support culture or structure, then yes. It would be very dangerous for a woman to go around sleeping with a bunch of men. She might get pregnant and it would be a major source of problems for her, possibly even leading to her own death. It would also be perfectly fine for a man to go around impregnating women, since even if he impregnated a bunch, and he probably would, there would be no repercussions for him.

Just one problem. This isn’t the middle ages.

What in the world do sperm and eggs have to do with anything in a world of condoms, IUDs, blood tests, vasectomies, and abortion? NOTHING. It’s completely and utterly irrelevant in the modern age. The fact that I make millions of sperm and my cute FB can only drop one egg a month has nothing to do with whether or not she’s a “slut.” This is because I wear a condom, get STD tests done frequently, and my FB has a Mirena IUD implanted in her. She can’t get pregnant and we’re both very unlikely to get an STD from each other.

Under that scenario, which is the typical scenario for today’s non-married people, what does sperm and eggs have to do with whether or not she’s a slut?

Again, NOTHING.

Moreover, I have noticed that more women are on more valid forms of birth control now than back in 2007 when I first entered the Alpha Male lifestyle. Noticeably, more women I meet use birth-control mechanisms like IUDs or Nexplanon compared to those who I met seven or eight years ago. This is a fantastically good trend for us Alphas, and should be further encouraged.

I know we could have a debate about whether or not birth control is healthy for women, but that’s a discussion for other time. The point here is that if she can’t get pregnant, and both our odds of getting an STD from each other are very low, then this whole slut sperm/egg argument is completely irrelevant.

Men who say that “women who fuck lots of guys are sluts because they have a limited amount of eggs” are still living in the 16th century. I’m sorry, but we don’t live in those days any more. If you want to present a point, you need to update your argument to something that makes sense within 21st century sexual realities.

The 100-Partner Argument

The next slut shamer argument states that if a man has sex with 100 women, it will not (seriously) negatively affect his life or psyche, but if a woman has sex with 100 men, it will damage her as a woman. She will suffer harmful physical and psychological effects, while a man who has similar experiences will probably be fine.

On its face, I generally agree with this, but it’s more complicated than it sounds. There are two aspects of this which render this argument either false or immaterial. I’ll describe the smaller one first.

As a man, having sex with 100 women won’t affect you adversely as long as monogamy is not your eventual goal. As I’ve demonstrated before, approximately three-fourths of the Alphas in the manosphere and PUA world hold long-term monogamy as an eventual goal to be fulfilled “someday.” Remember this, because it’s very important. Alpha Males and players don’t want to be players for their entire lives. The majority of these men want to settle down and get monogamous eventually.

If you NEVER want to get 100% monogamous, EVER, then having sex with 100 women is just fine. Go for it and have fun. However, as I explained in item number 14 here, if you have a goal of long-term monogamy “someday,” you actually destroy your chances of that ever working if you become a successful player and have sex with piles of women.

This is why dorky, sexually inexperienced beta males actually have better odds (or more accurately, less bad odds) of making long-term monogamy work than you do if you’re an Alpha who’s slept with a lot of women. You’ve established a precedent, desire, and pattern of behavior for sexual variety. When you’re finally dumb enough to get married and monogamous with no prenup, after your NRE honeymoon period is over, you’re going to cheat. Then you’re going to get caught. Then you’re going to get massive drama at best, a divorce and custody battle at worst.

So the claim that having sex with 100 women doesn’t harm a man is largely false. Most men, even Alphas/players, want to get monogamous someday, and your ability to be life-long monogamous (without cheating!) is virtually destroyed if you have sex with that many women.

Happily, the Alpha Male 2.0 is exempted from this limitation. He’ll never get monogamous. Even if he settles down into an OLTR or OLTR Marriage, he’s still allowed to get some on the side. So he can sleep with 100, 200, or 1000 women, and still be just fine. It’s only you guys who want long-term monogamy someday who are damaging yourselves by sexing all these women.

Alright, here’s the second and larger point on this 100-partner argument. Who ever said you should go out and marry a woman who’s had sex with 100 guys? How many women do you know who’s had sex with 100 guys? Are there really that many? Are you going to get serious with a woman like this? Really?

Some more questions. What’s wrong with having a fuck buddy or MLTR who’s had sex with 100 men? Is there anything wrong with this?

A problem only arises if you get super serious with a woman like this. I agree with you that marrying a woman in a 100% monogamous marriage who’s had sex with 100+ men probably isn’t a great idea. So fine, don’t marry a woman like that. How hard is it to follow that advice? Are there really hordes of 100+ partner women roaming around the streets? Are they really that hard to avoid? No.

That being said, DO have sex with them! Date them! Spend time with them! Enjoy them! Nothing wrong with that as long as you don’t get oneitis or serious.

Again, be realistic. How many women, who’ve had sex with over 100 men, are you going to meet or date in your life? Seriously, this number is going to be very small. The vast majority of the women you’re going to be in relationships with over the course of your life will have had somewhere between 5-30 partners. Very few will be anywhere near 100, much less over 100.

Therefore, all this hand-wringing about these women who’ve fucked 100 men doesn’t make any sense. Statistically, there are very few women rocking these kinds of numbers. Are they really a problem? Is it really worth freaking out about?

Well, okay, fine Blackdragon. But I still wouldn’t get serious with a woman who’s been with more than three or four guys!!!

If you want to say that you shouldn’t get serious with a woman who’s slept with 100 dudes, then I think you have slightly the wrong attitude, but I certainly won’t argue with you. However, if you then say you shouldn’t get serious with someone who’s been with 15 partners, then that’s just silly. Who cares if she’s been with 15 other dudes before you? Is she now damaged goods? If you dated two women, one who had been with three men and another who had been with 15, you would not be able to tell the difference.

Granted, if you then bring a third woman who had been with 150 men, then yes, you probably could spot the difference with her.

See what I’m saying? Putting the 15-partner women in the same category as the 100-partner women is not only inaccurate, it’s dumb.

The 100-partner argument relies on focusing on a very tiny percentage of women who have been with a staggering amount of sexual partners. If you simply keep the women you get serious with at non-insane partner counts, which I think most men will do anyway, then the argument is completely invalid. Moreover, women who have been with a lot of sexual partners serve a very important and necessary function in the life of an Alpha Male and should not be disparaged.

I’ll end with my final summation on slut shaming. The more you slut shame, the harder you make it for me and every other man to get laid. Dude, getting to sex is hard enough for most men. Why are you making it harder for us?

47 Comments on “Slut Shaming Revisited

  1. God bless ’em, there should be more! 🙂

    My favorite lady has a very high sex drive and is not at all bothered by it. She is scrupulously clean and pays high attention to hygiene. The most amazing sex I get is with her. I love her! (so to speak) She is far to rare in my opinion. We are both single so who cares?

    We go out now and again. We have to travel to somewhere decent to eat. I can tell you, there is nothing finer than driving back dealing with the anticipation we both have on the journey. Knowing that she wants to fuck my brains out the minute we are through the door is a pleasure all of its own. 😀

  2. The more you slut shame, the harder you make it for me and every other man to get laid. Dude, getting to sex is hard enough for most men. Why are you making it harder for us?

    Exactly.

    This could have been the entire post right here.

  3. @ BD

    So as long as they behave like responsible adults, women who have a lot of sex with dudes are awesome in my book. I wish there were more of them, particularly those women over age 33.

    As you’ve only got 17 years to go (ha ha!) I can tell you that there are loads of divorced women out there, over 40, who are making up for lost time! You have your best years to come! Just avoid the “Delusional Empress” and you’ll be fine. Unless you can train one. Then you really have made it. 🙂

  4. The argument in favor of slut shaming is that if everybody does it, then the greatest number of people grow up with parents in a stable relationship, and go on to spend their own adulthoods in a stable relationship. There’s a very plausible argument that it maximizes human happiness — if everybody does it.

    That horse has left the barn.

    But lonely middle aged ex-sluts with nobody in their lives are sad, crazy, unpleasant, pathetic people. When they can’t trade pussy for attention anymore, they have nothing.

    Of course there’s nothing I can do about it. But civilization is made up of a lot of people who care about more than “what’s in it for me”. Those people look pretty silly in times like this, I know.

  5. You and I agree on this topic wholeheartedly BD.  I love women that like having sex, have high sex drives and are uninhibited.  I would never shame them-hell I don’t even shame hookers since at least they’re being straightforward about the sex for money game.

    Would you agree that there are many guys in the “manosphere” that are way too hung up on this old 50’s and prior mentality in regards to women?  Seems like they want to revert to the old standard of no pussy till marriage which most of these guys would hate.  I have NO desire to ever return to that time.  For high sex drive guys with good game, this is a great time to get tons of sexual variety with no stigma.

  6. I don’t think that many women who have sex with many guys (and most women in general) don’t enjoy the sex itself as much as the attention and validation they get from it, and for them it is a manifestation of their low self-esteem. Most of them like looking or feeling like a “cool” girl and don’t take an honest look at themselves and realize or admit the true motivations for their actions. Sometimes they are deluded into thinking that just because they’ve fucked a high value man or been around him in some capacity, it means they can also get him or some other high value man to settle down with her (which they want). And then that doesn’t happen. I think it’s damaging for them in that it distracts themselves from their actual issues and impedes them from attaining what they really want. There’s nothing wrong with having sex because you enjoy it but that’s not the case with many women.

  7. If the shoe fits…  Dorky, sexually inexperienced beta male finally stopped Elliot Rodgering over hot sorority chicks, and asked out a dumpy girl who was just radiating how much she wanted to be asked out.  I’m still with her 24 years later, and have only had sex with one other woman, one single time.
    I’m hopeless, but at least I can laugh about it now instead of feeling ashamed of myself for not being Don Juan.
    I’m a dweeb.  Oh well.

  8. @Crab Rangoon: I too have noticed that some of the worst slut shamers are some of the PUAs in the manosphere. I’ve never been able to wrap my head around this – after all, isn’t their stated goal to pick up and have sex with as many women as possible? How would they accomplish that if women went back to waiting until marriage? I’ve even heard some say ANY (or some absurdly low number, like 3) prior partners is too much, because the girl will constantly compare you to them. I can’t recall ever doing this myself – my past relationships ended for a reason. I (and I think most women) look at the whole of the relationship, not just the sex – which means if I had a past partner who was good in bed but also happened to be a giant asshole, I wouldn’t be sitting around wanting to get back together with my ex or wishing my boyfriend was more like him. If I were dissatisfied with some aspect of my current relationship, I would work to correct it rather than fantasize about how things could be.

    Also agree that the “hundreds of men” argument is a ridiculous exaggeration. Most women with these kinds of numbers are probably in some kind of sex work. 5-25 seems far more realistic for the average woman, depending on her age, whether she was in a long-term monogamous relationship/marriage, and whether she went through a “wild” phase in her late teens/early 20s, among other factors.

  9. The argument in favor of slut shaming is that if everybody does it, then the greatest number of people grow up with parents in a stable relationship, and go on to spend their own adulthoods in a stable relationship.

    @ Deg:

    Explain why you believe that open relationships aren’t stable.

    Explain why you think that closed relationships with the two partners cheating on each other, or worse – living together in misery and not being able to even relieve themselves through cheating because the slut shaming culture won’t allow it – are stable.

     

     

  10. For those of us that are never going to know…

    ***Granted, if you then bring a third woman who had been with 150 men, then yes, you probably could spot the difference with her.***

    How would you spot that?

  11.  I can tell you that there are loads of divorced women out there, over 40, who are making up for lost time! 

    Yes there are. But the they require too many dates and money spent before they get to first-time sex, so I’ll pass (usually).

    That horse has left the barn.

    Correct.

    But lonely middle aged ex-sluts with nobody in their lives are sad, crazy, unpleasant, pathetic people.

    Yes, but so are lonely middle aged sexless betas with nobody in their lives. The’re pathetic too. It’s not a gender thing.

    Would you agree that there are many guys in the “manosphere” that are way too hung up on this old 50’s and prior mentality in regards to women? 

    Yep. It’s most of the manosphere. “I want to fuck all these sluts, but dammit I hate all these sluts!!! RAAAHHH” I’m constantly reading this stuff and thinking, “WTF?”

    This cognitive dissonance makes a lot of Alpha 1.0 manosphere men unhappy in life.

    I don’t think that many women who have sex with many guys (and most women in general) don’t enjoy the sex itself as much as the attention and validation they get from it, and for them it is a manifestation of their low self-esteem. 

    This is often true, yes.

    However there is a subset of these women who are A) super horny all time and B) cum very easily.

    If the shoe fits…  Dorky, sexually inexperienced beta male finally stopped Elliot Rodgering over hot sorority chicks, and asked out a dumpy girl who was just radiating how much she wanted to be asked out.  I’m still with her 24 years later, and have only had sex with one other woman, one single time.
    I’m hopeless, but at least I can laugh about it now instead of feeling ashamed of myself for not being Don Juan.
    I’m a dweeb.  Oh well.

    Yep. True to my point, because of your sexual inexperience, you have had higher odds of making long-term monogamy work than any other Alpha Male on this blog, myself included.

    There’s been some highly-touted studies that show that women who’ve fucked a lot of dudes are more likely to get divorced. The problem no one wants to talk about is that it’s the same with men. 

    For those of us that are never going to know…

    ***Granted, if you then bring a third woman who had been with 150 men, then yes, you probably could spot the difference with her.***

    How would you spot that?

    It’s a good question and not one I can answer in a few bullet points on a blog comment. I just know that I can tell the difference, and have before. Women with super high lay counts tend to be more sexually confident, more outcome independent, often have a bitchy streak (yet while staying outcome independent), etc.

     

  12. If you want to say that you shouldn’t get serious with a woman who’s slept with 100 dudes, then I think you have slightly the wrong attitude, but I certainly won’t argue with you.

    @BD: Why not? I would definitely argue with such a person. What’s wrong with getting serious with a woman like this? Unless by “get serious” you mean monogamy, in which case, I agree, but that’s a moot point since you should NOT be monogamous with anyone.

    But what’s wrong with getting into a serious open relationship with a woman who has slept with 100 dudes, falling in love with her, or having kids with her? The relationship will be poly anyway, so who cares?

    If you simply keep the women you get serious with at non-insane partner counts, which I think most men will do anyway, then the argument is completely invalid.

    Why is it valid otherwise? And why is having a high partner count in the hundreds “insane?” This is slut shaming. Sharon Stone, for example, claims to have fucked over 300 men. She’s not insane! She’s awesome!

  13. @BD: Why not? I would definitely argue with such a person. 

    I know you would. 🙂

    What’s wrong with getting serious with a woman like this? Unless by “get serious” you mean monogamy, in which case, I agree, but that’s a moot point since you should NOT be monogamous with anyone.

    Exactly. It really depends on the type of “serious” relationship you have in mind.  I would also add “serious with very long-term expectations,” even if nonmonogamous.

    So if I was “screening” or evaluating a woman for a LONG-TERM OLTR relationship, and she had slept with 150 guys, and had never in her life had a long-term relationship, I’d probably keep her at the MLTR level and keep looking.

    But we’re getting pretty hypothetical here. I think you see my overall point.

    But what’s wrong with getting into a serious open relationship with a woman who has slept with 100 dudes, falling in love with her, or having kids with her? 

    Falling in love? Fine. Getting serious? Fine. Having kids? That would give me pause, because again, under a kids-relationship, I’d need that woman to be around consistently for (ideally) at least 18 years, if possible.

    So it’s not an issue of open or mono; it’s an issue of how long you want the relationship to last.

    And why is having a high partner count in the hundreds “insane?” This is slut shaming. 

    Good point. I should have said “insanely high,” which I don’t attach a negative to. “Insane” meaning “extreme.”

    Sharon Stone, for example, claims to have fucked over 300 men. 

    Haha! So per the triple / divide-by-three rule, she’s REALLY had sex with 900 men. Which yes, means she’s awesome.

  14. Evo-psych arguments about outdated paternity-uncertainty wiring aside, this mainly comes down to pride, ego, and anxiety. People (men AND women) don’t like the idea of hooking up with a high-n-count slut/player because they know they won’t be special to that person, or possibly even relevant or remembered afterwards. And that’s a huge blow to one’s ego.

    Personally I LOVE slutty women and all of the women I’ve ever been very close friends with have been sluts, some of whom are “out” about it and very aggressive/straightforward with men. So I have a lot of experience watching them and seeing how men react to that, and I’d say the majority of the time it is bad…and about half the time they will actually turn down a woman they were otherwise attracted to if she blatantly offers to go fuck with no game-playing, pretending not to be a slut, etc. (This is why I don’t do that myself and I usually play the expected role of letting the guy think they’re chasing me).

    Men are actually quite deluded about how open they are to sleeping around. They all THINK they would love it if an attractive woman just offered them immediate sex with no strings. However, I have seen my very cute, petite, sexy girlfriend get turned down TONS of times by guys who were initially interested in her (i.e. they approached her), because she was so straightforward and it scared them off.

    The problem is that the reality of it means that the person knows they are just a body and that anyone else would do just as fine, and people don’t like that feeling. When my friend blatantly says “let’s go fuck”, the guy realizes that if he says no she’s just going to ask someone else and that he’s completely fungible. He hates that. Just like girls hate it. So half the time he says no. And even if he doesn’t say no, he’s not likely to be that interested in her afterwards.

    I would like to chastise guys for this and say it’s hypocritical and stupid, but I have to admit to being like that myself. Generally I have zero concern about whether a guy is a “player” because I just presume that any guy who sleeps with me is going to end up really liking me and wanting to do it lots of times. In other words, I’m relying on him thinking I’m special and liking me better than any other girl he sleeps with. But there was one time that I was propositioned by a celebrity…and this was a celebrity that I really liked and found physically attractive…and I said no. Not because I didn’t like him or wasn’t attracted but because I knew perfectly well that if I said yes I would just be the groupie of the night and that if I said no he would find a replacement girl to say yes within about two minutes. And my pride couldn’t deal with that possibility so I preferred to go without.

    And that’s what guys are dealing with with sluts…they know that a slut can and will replace them within 2 minutes and that he isn’t important or special to her, he just happens to be the most attractive person in the room. And their pride doesn’t like that.

    There’s also the anxiety of being compared to others that comes with someone with a lot of experience, and that anxiety translates to anger and hostility.

    I actually have a very warm place in my heart for people with insanely high, over-100 n-counts, even though mine will likely never even approach half that. But my very first high school boyfriend, my ex-husband, and one of my closest female friends had all slept with more than 100 people when we were closest. I have found that the only difference with them is that they tend to truly love people and to find something attractive in almost everyone. The negative connotation is that they have no or low standards, but in my experience they are some of the most wonderful, open-minded, generous, good-hearted people I have known — the true lovers of the world. They find a much wider swath of people attractive and they don’t have their pride and status as tied up in it.

    And there is some pride in “locking down” someone like that and winning them over to want to be in a relationship with you. Of course, long-term monogamy will never happen….a relationship with a man or woman with a count above about 40 or 50 will eventually convert to an open relationship after NRE, or there will be cheating or a breakup.

     

  15. Let’s pretend for one blissful minute that the Natural Order of things were thus: Consensual, lawful, unprotected sex between man and woman DOESN’T cause pregnancy and that STDs don’t exist. Result? There would be so much sex going on that the earth would tilt on its axis.

    The fact is, in this modern day, all we have to do is wear a condom and get rid of societal programming and the above is the order of things anyway.

  16. Great points by KKate. I fall into the category of men who love (and sleep with) a broad range of women and I love them all for what they are. I also am receptive to women who are very sexually forward, but I know from observation that I am in the extreme minority here, so I agree with Kate’s approach toward it, but not exactly her reasoning.

    I think a lot of it is that many men just can’t live up to the unrealistic masculine stereotype of being ready for sex anytime, all the time, and if an attractive girl pops the question when they feel they might not be able to perform well they demur, feeling too insecure about it to go forward, especially if the woman is very attractive as being unable to perform well with a very attractive woman is a bigger blow to the ego (especially if he fears word will get out). So they like to control that interaction to have it on their terms.

    As for categorizing by ‘lay count’ stuff; I have to disagree that 100, or 150 partners is a sign of some extreme promiscuity among women. I’m in my 40s and have easily racked up over 100 partners in my life without really trying and there will certainly be more. Any man who has a reasonable sex drive and is fairly attractive will have these numbers by mid-life unless they choose a LOT of long-term monogamy IMO, and women just have it easier in this category.  I have lived with and near plenty of 20-something women who were unmarried and almost all the reasonably pretty ones went through 5-15 guys per year, that I knew of (who knows how many ONSs they had when they went on business trips, girls vacations, bachelorette parties, etc.). Based on that I would say keep a woman unmarried and with only a handful of serious 1-year boyfriends from the time she loses her virginity in her late teens (being conservative here) until she gets serious about marriage in her early 30s and you’ve got about 150 dicks right there. It’s probably a lot more typical than most here are making it out to be and not a big deal.

    Only a big deal for frustrated sexless guys who can only dream of having the sex lives that hot chicks do and hate out of jealousy 🙂

  17. @Kurt: I agree there are women who continue to sleep with that many people into their early 30s (and some beyond), but I wonder how common that is (or maybe it’s more common than I think, and many of those women just keep quiet about it for fear of backlash). As for me, I had many more partners between the ages of 19 and 21 than I did after that. I became much more cautious after experiencing some social stigma, and ended up in serial monogamy, which had zero stigma. I think a lot of women do this early on to avoid repurcussions caused by stigma, regardless of the type of life and relationship(s) they actually want to have – which I think is really unfortunate.

    I had a friend like Kate describes who LOVED sex, was very attractive and had many partners. Unfortunately, she was very stigmatized for it, mostly by men. One guy (who was a huge player himself) said girls like that are great for a good time, but he’d never want to get into any kind of relationship with them because he wouldn’t feel special. I feel like many guys also look at a woman’s past partners, and if in the past she has dated/hooked up with men they perceive as better then themselves, they worry they won’t “measure up” – and so they either won’t give her a chance, or they enter into a monogamous relationship but constantly guard her out of jealousy. Obviously I’m not a man, so I could be totally wrong about this, but that’s just what it sometimes looks like to me.

  18. Men are actually quite deluded about how open they are to sleeping around. They all THINK they would love it if an attractive woman just offered them immediate sex with no strings. However, I have seen my very cute, petite, sexy girlfriend get turned down TONS of times by guys who were initially interested in her (i.e. they approached her), because she was so straightforward and it scared them off.

    Those are pussy betas or Alpha 1.0s with purity fantasies (otherwise known in the community as “Madonna/whore”).

    Thank god I don’t have that problem.

     

  19. Is it true that the more partners you have the higher your odds of catching an STD?

    STD’s affect individuals differently so that it is possible for some people to be infected and not know it for some time.

    I cannot use condoms but even if I could they are not an impenetrable biological hazmat shield.

    Years ago anything could be cured with a shot of penicillin, not so anymore.

    So it is not just “Madonna/whore” it is a logical assessment of risk and danger level.

    There have been a few times when just before a sexual encounter a woman starts telling me about high numbers of previous partners, I usually bail out.

     

  20. I wonder if this is (perhaps was, as things change) an age thing for men. I can remember when I was young (but doing all right anyway) I was offered it on a plate a few times. Being uneducated then, I would run a mile. Over the years my attitudes have changed and I have almost completely stopped judging people about anything. So now I’m okay with it but it has taken a lot of years for me to come round to this way of thinking. Being approached by a woman who makes it very obvious what she wants is now a very pleasant experience.

  21. So it is not just “Madonna/whore” it is a logical assessment of risk and danger level.

    It is Madonna/whore. The men who do this are not thinking about STDs at all. They’re thinking about how the only women they can have as a wife or a GF must be a virgin or close to it, or else she’s not “pure.”

    And wearing a condom with all first-time women while avoiding first-date sex with complete strangers puts the odds of you getting an STD well within the 2% zone.

    I wonder if this is (perhaps was, as things change) an age thing for men….Over the years my attitudes have changed and I have almost completely stopped judging people about anything. 

    I don’t think so. I don’t see this changing a lot with men. In many cases, it actually gets worse as they age into their 30s, not better.

  22. I don’t think so. I don’t see this changing a lot with men. In many cases, it actually gets worse as they age into their 30s, not better.

    How very sad. One would hope that mellowing is part of the aging process.

  23. @ Blackdragon

    I mostly agree with your article. Alpha 2s can almost do whatever they want with women, but Alpha 1s and Betas can not. Alpha 2s can have a good relationship with most women unlike Alpha 1s and Betas. I do not recommend that Alpha 1s get into serious relationships with women who have a high partner count unless they like the drama. I recommend it even less to Betas as they do not know what they are doing and will have a higher tendency to be used, abused and discarded by women who have much more shall we say experience than them if they get into serious relationships with these same women. Anecdotally, I’ve seen it too many times. Everything else  I agree with, Oh well, no 2 people can agree on everything. On second thought, if you were only talking about Alpha 2s getting into serious relationships with women with a promiscuous history, then I will stand corrected after you make your clarification.

  24. One would hope that mellowing is part of the aging process.

    Oh, it certainly is. But the desire for Disney has nothing to do with mellowing. Sadly, the desire for Disney gets worse as a man ages, not better.

    I do not recommend that Alpha 1s get into serious relationships with women who have a high partner count unless they like the drama. 

    Disagree.

    1. In my experience, the amount of drama you’ll get from a woman doesn’t track at all with the number of sexual partners she’s had. One has nothing to do with the other. The amount of drama you’ll receive from a woman has more to do with her personality type and level of trauma in her history (if any), not her lay count.

    2. Alpha 1.0s either like drama or (more likely) don’t mind drama as long as they can order a woman around. So telling them to avoid drama often doesn’t make any sense, as strange as that sounds.

    I recommend it even less to Betas as they do not know what they are doing and will have a higher tendency to be used, abused and discarded by women

    The problem with betas is that they get oneitis too easily and too quickly. However, getting oneitis for ANY woman of ANY lay count is very bad. A beta getting oneitis for a woman who’s had 8 partners is almost always just as bad, and usually ends just as badly, as a beta who gets oneitis for a woman who’s had 100 partners.

    And just like with telling Alpha 1.0s to avoid drama, to tell betas to avoid dominant women is the exact opposite of what they’ll do. Betas like dominant women, those more likely to chew them up and spit them out. You could tell the betas to avoid those women, but ha, they won’t follow that advice at all.

    (See why it’s better to be an Alpha 2.0 and not worry about any of this shit?)

  25. OT … (and I say this with a smile of appreciation) … BD, seems lately you’re more prone to express yourself using curse words. If so, might it be connected to raising your T level? If so, that’s kinda funny. Hooray for masculinity (like an endangered species in our “culture” today). Guess we’ll get an update on your TRT experience soon (?).  Cheers.

  26. ***I wonder if this is (perhaps was, as things change) an age thing for men….Over the years my attitudes have changed and I have almost completely stopped judging people about anything. ***

    I think the age thing goes the other way

    when you are young and dumb and have a high testosterone level you will gladly kill or risk death for sex

    Hell you will even marry and have kids!!!!!!!! for sex….

    when you get older and have had some sex  and a few STDs and seen some women get all weird on you and lose that feeling of immortality that youth gives

    you start to take less risk…

    you don’t get to be older by taking a lot of risk

    you die young…

  27. BD, seems lately you’re more prone to express yourself using curse words. 

    Haha, no. I purposely used curse words in this post for emphasis.

    Sometimes I’ll go back and read some of my much older posts here and be embarrassed at how much I was cursing, particularly the f-word. So it’s actually the opposite; I curse far less now than I did before.

    But sometimes I swear it up, yeah. 🙂

    And yeah, I’ll make another TRT post at some point.

     

     

  28. Slut-shaming also cuts a great line of knowledge any guy could get on how women work sexually. Horny women tend to be completely honest when they find a man who shows them he simply does not care about what she does when he’s not around. It must be a relief for them!

    I’m currently seeing a 22 yo who’s horny as hell, and she tells me everything about her sex life. She also asks me a lot of interesting questions, which gives me clear advantage over my competition and an exclusive point of view on how younger women think. This kind of honesty (in my humble experience) is more hard to get on introverts, shy or sexually repressed girls.

    By the way I think you’re right on your points BD, specially about PUAs. My guess is that deep down most manosphere guys are Alpha 1.0s who are “getting it out before getting married” and have a hard time getting their heads around the snowflake mith.

  29. Have to disagree with this article. A woman with more than 15 partner count  will be noticeably by anyone from a mile.  More than 10 in general is a serious indication she has  mental issues or at  very  least,  that she  craves for  validation from external sources, suffers from extreme narcissism and solipsism – basically a creature to avoid. Numerous studies showed that in case of women,   even  more than 5 previous partners before marriage severely increase chances for divorce. In case of 15, a divorce rape  is almost a money-back guarantee  along with probably  a  terrifying little   “gift” of finding out  your “kid” is not yours. Just lovely.

    I know a girl (a local “slut”)  whose notch count cannot possibly be more than 10-we live in a pretty conservative society  and even  losing your virginity  before marriage was very rare for women  5-10 years ago. Basically, this “girl”, who seemed  OK  just TWO years ago,  now  looks absolutely atrocious , in fact, literally  worse  than some Krokodil and heroin  addicts I have seen. AS she traveled to some black hole nearby to accelerate her biological aging by  30 years.Her eyes are a  literal “thousand cock stare” even though she probably does not even imagine  having sex with more than 20-here it is quite impossible.  Just to imagine how she looks like, imagine this woman: https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/594324002228858880 

    but only even worse and technically being almost ten years younger. By hey, I guess that cock carousel was worth it.

    And  she is  also  the compendium of other  manosphere truths: a tattoo (or even  several), short (though not boyish) haircut, dyed red hair(quite a statement here) and Facebook littered  with posts on ” how men should not judge on woman’s looks or how she is dressed” as well as very disturbing  pictures  of  dead birds in a very gray  and lifeless colour palette.  And she was a normal girl  when I met her, maybe just one of those a bit of  “wild”  ones, but nobody could imagine THIS.   In the  monogamous relationship, you fight so  fevourishly against , she might have found a normal husband with kids and be happy instead of being  relegeted  a position of  a damaged cat lady with mental issues. Again, I repeat-this is from a VERY conservative society in which even losing virginity is not that common. I can’e even imagine what is going up in the West.

  30. Have to disagree with this article. A woman with more than 15 partner count  will be noticeably by anyone from a mile.  More than 10 in general is a serious indication she has  mental issues or at  very  least,  that she  craves for  validation from external sources, suffers from extreme narcissism and solipsism – basically a creature to avoid.

    @GA23 – You came to this conclusion by way of your experience with that one woman in your story, or was it internet research? Do you not believe that there are some women who simply like sex?

     

  31. More than 10 in general is a serious indication she has  mental issues or at  very  least,  that she  craves for  validation from external sources, suffers from extreme narcissism and solipsism – basically a creature to avoid.

    Every woman with 11 prior partners suffers from extreme narcissism and solipsism? That’s quite a claim. Where is your scientific evidence to support it?

    Numerous studies showed that in case of women,   even  more than 5 previous partners before marriage severely increase chances for divorce. In case of 15, a divorce rape  is almost a money-back guarantee  along with probably  a  terrifying little   “gift” of finding out  your “kid” is not yours.

    That is an often-quoted trope in the manosphere and it’s false. To quote my book:

    Those studies show that there is very little difference in divorce rates between a woman who’s had two or three sexual partners and a woman who’s had 15 partners, often with a less than 9% difference. With women who’ve had an extreme number of partners, like 50 or more, then yes, the numbers do make a larger difference.

    Even so, this problem only matters if you’re dumb enough to want to get monogamously married someday and expect it to last forever. Are you that dumb? Hopefully not, and if not, then it doesn’t apply to you.

  32. In what puritanical third world shithole do you reside?

     More than 10 in general is a serious indication she has  mental issues or at  very  least,  that she  craves for  validation from external sources, suffers from extreme narcissism and solipsism – basically a creature to avoid.

    Or maybe she just has a healthy sex drive. Have you ever thought of that between reading your bible verses?

    Numerous studies showed that in case of women,   even  more than 5 previous partners before marriage severely increase chances for divorce.

    This is true. But why should marriage exist? No marriage = no divorce. Why do you want something as old-fashioned and ridiculous as marriage?

    In case of 15, a divorce rape  is almost a money-back guarantee  along with probably  a  terrifying little   “gift” of finding out  your “kid” is not yours. Just lovely.

    Then don’t get married. And DNA test every kid on the day of its birth.

    I know a girl (a local “slut”)  whose notch count cannot possibly be more than 10

    I bet it’s 30, but she’s just ashamed because you’re a judgmental sex-hating prude!

    -we live in a pretty conservative society

    Really? I never would have guessed! Do you even have indoor plumbing?

    and even  losing your virginity  before marriage was very rare for women  5-10 years ago.

    I feel sorry for all the women in your country who must repress their natural desires because of slut shaming prudes like you.

    Basically, this “girl”, who seemed  OK  just TWO years ago,  now  looks absolutely atrocious , in fact, literally  worse  than some Krokodil and heroin  addicts I have seen.

    Maybe the  stress of your shaming aged her.

    AS she traveled to some black hole nearby to accelerate her biological aging by  30 years.Her eyes are a  literal “thousand cock stare” even though she probably does not even imagine  having sex with more than 20-

    If, in a sex-hating society like yours, only criminals and the lowest scum of the Earth have the courage to break social norms, I can see why a sexually enlightened woman would have to sink to the lowest depths of male scumbaggery to get her needs met, and then look like you described. It’d sad, but only because of slut shaming men like you.

    here it is quite impossible.

    Well with your attitude, nothing is possible.

    And she was a normal girl  when I met her,

    Explain why you think she’s not normal now.

    maybe just one of those a bit of  “wild” ones, but nobody could imagine THIS.

    Imagine what? Put that bible down.

     In the  monogamous relationship, you fight so  fevourishly against , she might have found a normal husband

    What’s normal about a husband? What’s normal about marriage? These are unnatural and abnormal cultural constructs motivated by your heterophobia!

    with kids and be happy

    Happy in miserable monogamy, having sex with the same person over and over again, suppressing who she really is, and getting sexually bored and frustrated just to satisfy your society’s heterophobia?

    How do hateful men like you still exist?

    instead of being  relegated  a position of  a damaged cat lady with mental issues.

    How is she damaged? How does she have “mental issues?” Perhaps you have mental issues pertaining to sexual aversion. How was your relationship with your mother?

    Again, I repeat-this is from a VERY conservative society

    No shit! Wow! Let me guess, Muslim? You do know that allah is not great, right?

    in which even losing virginity is not that common.

    Remind me to stay away from your country like Ebola!

    I can’t even imagine what is going up in the West.

    Maybe you can open your mind, but sexual enlightenment may be too much for you to handle.

  33. I’m going to be honest — I’m still wrestling with this issue. (or maybe it’s a web of issues when it comes to men’s views on how “open” “easy” or “promiscuous” a woman is).

    I mean firstly, being “easy” (low standards) is not the same as fucking a lot of men, though they usually go hand-in-hand. A woman might only fuck A-list celebrities, but has happened to have fucked 70 of them. Another woman might have no problem fucking losers, disgusting men, dumpy dorks, 60+ geriatrics, an entire frat house at once, etc.

    I’m not sure if it’s the “low standards” or “volume” I have more of a problem with. But I do have a mental problem with some aspect of it. I’m not sure why. As you described, it makes no logical sense. Maybe it’s part of our simian biology — related to jealousy — not liking, or imagining, other men having sex with some woman. Or “purity” being connected with … not being possibly impregnated by another man while you fuck her. In other words — no rational basis, yet at the same time, can you really “train yourself” to be numb to it? I’m not sure.

     

    Another related aspect that makes me uncomfortable — when I see a woman embrassing herself, or a guy exploiting that. Let me give an example. The other night, a girl I ended up screwing later (we had only just met) … ran into a bachelor party and started giving them attention. Again, we had known each other for 30 minutes here … Anyway, the men start treating her like a stripper, ogling, etc. One picks her up, flips her upside down, and “pretends” like he’s licking her out. Yes, in public on the street. Clearly a “pretend” motorboat, but it made me very uncomfortable/ mad. The 2nd girl I was with was also VERY uncomfortable. Thing is, she was enjoying it — the attention or whatever. She was also a bit tipsy at least. And this was -NOT- a jealousy thing, or even a “disrespecting me” thing (I wasn’t standing with her at the time) …. it was a …. wow, I feel like this girl is embarassing herself … the guys are treating her like dogshit, but she likes it … what can I do? Again, this was mostly “Good fun” kind of stuff … but I feel it’s related to some ideas I have about women. Would love to hear your thoughts BD, especially on this last story. I have some thoughts about women and purity I am definitely wrestling with here.

  34. I’m not sure why. As you described, it makes no logical sense. Maybe it’s part of our simian biology — related to jealousy — not liking, or imagining, other men having sex with some woman.

    Obsolete Biological Wiring. As I describe in detail in my book, your job is to overcome OBW, not succumb to it or make excuses for it.

    In other words — no rational basis, yet at the same time, can you really “train yourself” to be numb to it? I’m not sure.

    Yes. Read my book.

    One picks her up, flips her upside down, and “pretends” like he’s licking her out. Yes, in public on the street. Clearly a “pretend” motorboat, but it made me very uncomfortable/ mad.

    OBW again. You were mad for literally no reason. So some guy messes around with a woman you just met? Who cares? AND you ended up fucking her!

    it was a …. wow, I feel like this girl is embarassing herself … the guys are treating her like dogshit, but she likes it … what can I do?

    1. You do nothing. Let her make a fool of herself. Clearly that’s what she wanted.

    2. Again, WHY DO YOU CARE? So what? If this was your wife or serious OLTR, then okay, you’d have a reason to care. But some dork you just met? No.

    Yeah, you have some real purity issues. Time to start re-training your brain for maximum happiness instead of hand-wringing.

  35. Okay, I was surprised by your straightforward answer. Yeah, I’m not “in too deep” like many men who say that any woman who has slept with 30+ men, or 50+ men, is a worthless whore, good for a fuck, and nothing else.

    I like to think I progressed beyond that.

     

    Anyway … I mean, again, the second girl I was with (this one a platonic friend of both of us) … was also very uncomfortable and wanted me to do something. I mean, does she have the same issues I do? (I did end up doing something … feining gay, gave the groom a lap dance, then had me + the girl kiss him on both sides of the cheek, as a joke — clearly I have no problem with my own sexuality)

    Again, this wasn’t a jealousy thing. I can and do get jealous, but believe me, it wasn’t. It was more of a “concerned father” feeling if that even makes goddamn sense. I mean what if some guy on the street tried to peer up your daughter’s skirt, without warning, and she happened to like it? Not trying to rile you, just trying to explain my feelings.

     

    But listen, I think you may be right. I’m not certain, but I’m willing to put some faith in the idea that maybe it’s obsolete biological wiring. At least, with no upside to said wiring. That said, how the hell do I get over it? I do have your book purchased — haven’t finished it yet.

    Merely hearing the idea “stop being jealous” or “stop feeling this way” — well, that won’t quite work. Maybe it just requires sleeping with, and knowing, many more women, before I get to that mindset.

     

    If you think my concerns are silly, which they may be, I definitely would like to “Rid myself” of them. But hmm. I feel like most men, and women, in my position would feel the same way. Are we all deluded?

  36. the second girl I was with (this one a platonic friend of both of us) … was also very uncomfortable and wanted me to do something. I mean, does she have the same issues I do?

    Who cares?

    Do you see how outcome dependent you are about all this?

    I mean what if some guy on the street tried to peer up your daughter’s skirt, without warning, and she happened to like it? Not trying to rile you, just trying to explain my feelings.

    Yes, that would bother me, but that woman wasn’t your daughter, therefore your feelings were completely irrelevant. Moreover, if my daughter was getting drunk and hanging out with complete strangers late into the night, she’d be asking for trouble. She’s smarter than that, and like me doesn’t even drink, therefore I don’t have to worry about her doing that.

    In other words, that woman was making a choice to behave like a moron. Her choice.

    I think you may be right.

    I am right.

    That said, how the hell do I get over it? I do have your book purchased — haven’t finished it yet.

    1. Establish an exciting Mission and devote your life to it.

    2. Have several women on rotation you like.

    3. Read (or carefully re-read) Chapter 12, particularly the section on jealousy management.

    I feel like most men, and women, in my position would feel the same way. Are we all deluded?

    All people? No. The majority of the human race? Yes.

    The majority believe this slut shaming stuff just like they believe in things like gods, long-term monogamy, Republicans making government smaller, Democrats never going to war…

  37. Yeah, I’m still only partially convinced. This is a matter of ethics, really, and you’re saying you’re closeness to the person in question is the crux of the matter. If it’s your daughter, you should be pissed, if it’s a relative stranger, who gives a shit. But why is that the case?

    I don’t mean to derail the thread here, really, but just a week ago, I witnessed domestic violence occurring in semi-public (guy was screaming at her and pulled her into a closed shop, where he decided to be gutless) — I didn’t know the number for police in that country, and perhaps it was stupid, but I had a moral duty to do something about it, in my view. I’m not going to stand by when some girl (or man, depending on situation) gets thrashed. So I intervened (non-violently).

    Perhaps off-topic, but same with your daughter. Either the guy is abusing her, or he isn’t, and it’s a tough line. You are very experienced, and you know there are “gray areas” — maybe — when it comes to escalation. Going up to a strange woman on the street and yanking her breast before hello– well, c’mon – some things we don’t condone. In other situations, the escalation may be appropriate, or … well on that fuzzy line.

    And eh .. you’re saying, luckily, your daughter essentially isn’t a drunk, or a “slut” or whatever, but c’mon — theoretically that could have been a possibility. And what would you say then? The behavior is right on one woman, and wrong on another? And the woman liking it — she gets abused, and likes its. These are complicated issues, and I know I’m putting you in an unfair bind here, but eh. And I know the issue of a man “exploiting” or “harassing” a woman (I’m talking extreme cases) … is entirely separate than a women consensually fucking anything that moves — but shit. Some of these things are just sad to me. I’m a very open-minded, tolerant individual but I’m a very empathetic person, it’s just my nature. I can’t stand when I feel someone is being taking advantage of.

  38. @Billyboy:

    I mean firstly, being “easy” (low standards) is not the same as fucking a lot of men, though they usually go hand-in-hand.

    Who are you to decide the high-ness or low-ness of someone else’s sexual standards?

    A woman might only fuck A-list celebrities,

    Gold digger.

    Another woman might have no problem fucking losers, disgusting men, dumpy dorks, 60+ geriatrics, an entire frat house at once, etc.

    If she’s horny for them, you have no business calling them losers, disgusting, etc… Maybe that’s what they are to you, but obviously not to her.

    Who do you think you are?

    Anyway, the men start treating her like a stripper, ogling, etc. One picks her up, flips her upside down, and “pretends” like he’s licking her out. Yes, in public on the street. Clearly a “pretend” motorboat, but it made me very uncomfortable/ mad.

    If she liked it, who are you to get uncomfortable/mad?

    Who do you think you are?

    The 2nd girl I was with was also VERY uncomfortable. Thing is, she was enjoying it — the attention or whatever.

    Well if she was enjoying it, what’s the problem?

    Who do you think you are?

    it was a …. wow, I feel like this girl is embarassing herself … the guys are treating her like dogshit, but she likes it … what can I do?

    Well if she likes it, what’s the problem? They’re treating her like dog shit to you, but not from her point of view.

    Who do you think you are?

    Again, this was mostly “Good fun” kind of stuff …

    Then what’s the problem?

    but I feel it’s related to some ideas I have about women.

    That’s for sure, sadly.

     I mean what if some guy on the street tried to peer up your daughter’s skirt, without warning, and she happened to like it?

    If my daughter liked it, WHAT’S THE FUCKING PROBLEM??????

    Don’t you want your daughter to be happy?

    This is a matter of ethics, really,

    If the woman likes it, why is it unethical???

    If it’s your daughter, you should be pissed,

    Why should I be pissed that my daughter is having a good time?

    I don’t mean to derail the thread here, really, but just a week ago, I witnessed domestic violence occurring in semi-public (guy was screaming at her

    That is not domestic violence. That is freedom of speech. I can scream at anyone I want. Try to stop me. You won’t like the outcome!

    and pulled her into a closed shop, where he decided to be gutless)

    “Pulled her?” How? Also, I’m not sure what “gutless” means in this context. Did he hit her?

    I didn’t know the number for police in that country, and perhaps it was stupid, but I had a moral duty to do something about it, in my view.

    This is beta male white knighting. You have no moral duties or obligations to anyone except yourself, your children, and those whom you share an emotional bond with which comes with some implicit understandings. Even if he was hitting her, it is not your concern. You should get a life. Or help her because you feel like it, but not out of some pathetic white knight/mangina sense of “obligation.” That’s some white guilt right there.

    You’re not responsible for anyone’s actions other than your own!

    Who do you think you are? Stop trying to be Batman!

    I’m not going to stand by when some girl (or man, depending on situation) gets thrashed.

    Why not? And who said he was “thrashing” her?

    So I intervened (non-violently).

    How?

    Perhaps off-topic, but same with your daughter.

    Yes, you have a moral obligation to protect your daughter, but only from getting hit, not from getting screamed at.

    Either the guy is abusing her, or he isn’t, and it’s a tough line.

    No, it’s a very clear and easy line.

    You are very experienced, and you know there are “gray areas” — maybe —

    There are no grey areas in any of the situations you have described.

    Going up to a strange woman on the street and yanking her breast before hello

    That’s assault and that’s illegal. Unless she communicates somehow that she likes it.

    – well, c’mon – some things we don’t condone.

    “We?” Who the hell do you think you are, Batman?

    You are a total stranger and you are not the police. What moral right do you have to condone or not condone a woman being beaten or abused? You may think it’s despicable in your own head (and if we’re talking about physical abuse, I will agree with you), but what right to do you have to put on a cape and tights with your underwear over them and save the helpless damsel from the evil scoundrel??? Imposing your values of right and wrong unto her is an arrogant presumption. Imposing them unto him is being a vigilante. Both are pathetic. How does being “Captain Save a Ho” affect you?

    Stop treating others the way YOU would like to be treated and start treating them the way THEY would like to be treated!

    In other situations, the escalation may be appropriate, or … well on that fuzzy line.

    It’s never fuzzy.

    And eh .. you’re saying, luckily, your daughter essentially isn’t a drunk, or a “slut” or whatever, but c’mon — theoretically that could have been a possibility. And what would you say then? The behavior is right on one woman, and wrong on another?

    All that matters is if it’s okay with her.

    And the woman liking it — she gets abused, and likes its.

    If she likes getting abused, you have no business saving her from herself like some kind of glorified nanny for adults. Assuming your  daughter is an adult, you may try to talk some sense into her, plead with her to stop enjoying the bruises she’s getting, etc…, but if she likes it, you have no business being on her side if she’s not on her own side. Unless she’s a child. But even then, she must be your child. And if she’s a total stranger, ignore the bat signal, unless you think you can get away with charging her some money for it. Then, at least, you’re not a masochistic chump!

    These are complicated issues,

    No, they’re not. They are hilariously easy!

    And I know the issue of a man “exploiting” or “harassing” a woman (I’m talking extreme cases) … is entirely separate than a women consensually fucking anything that moves — but shit.

    If a man is exploiting or harassing a woman you do not know, that’s her problem. If it’s a woman you do know, wait until she asks you for help and confirms that she doesn’t like it. Otherwise, take off the shining armor and get a life!

    Some of these things are just sad to me.

    You’re sad that a woman is happy by something that wouldn’t make you happy? Why?

    You’re making this all about you, you, you! You’re trying to impose your values on the so called “victim” without even consulting her.

    Who the hell do you think you are?

    I’m a very empathetic person, it’s just my nature. I can’t stand when I feel someone is being taking advantage of.

    Even if they like it? Shouldn’t you be empathizing with her happiness? You sound egotistical to me. You’d make a good third world tyrant!

     

  39. you’re saying you’re closeness to the person in question is the crux of the matter. If it’s your daughter, you should be pissed, if it’s a relative stranger, who gives a shit. But why is that the case?

    Because if you spend your life trying to save strangers, you’ll do literally nothing else. You only have so much time and emotional energy.

    The behavior is right on one woman, and wrong on another?

    No. Behavior is either right or wrong. However,

    1. Many people ask for problems because of their own personal behavior, and are thus not deserving of help. As I explain here.

    2. I don’t have time to save the entire world, and neither do you. If you try, you’ll never be happy, and you will waste your life.

    You’re way off-topic now so this is my last response on the subject.

  40. 2. I don’t have time to save the entire world, and neither do you. If you try, you’ll never be happy, and you will waste your life.

    Very true. I’m not trying to be contrarian, believe me, but this probably isn’t the proper channel for deep discussion. Eh, it’s just been weighing on my mind lately. I appreciate your insight.

  41. @Billyboy

    Another woman might have no problem fucking losers, disgusting men, dumpy dorks, 60+ geriatrics, an entire frat house at once, etc.

    As one of the 60+ geriatrics that you cite, I may point out that I probably have more sex than you do, judging by your approach to life.

    I’m a very open-minded, tolerant individual but I’m a very empathetic person..

    You are none of the above. If you were, the long stream of judgmental lecturing that you subjected us to would not have appeared in the first place.

     

  42. This is beta male white knighting. You have no moral duties or obligations to anyone except yourself, your children, and those whom you share an emotional bond with which comes with some implicit understandings. Even if he was hitting her, it is not your concern. You should get a life. Or help her because you feel like it, but not out of some pathetic white knight/mangina sense of “obligation.” That’s some white guilt right there.

    White knighting is defending a girl on the internet, mindlessly, no matter what, in hopes to get into her pants. The motivation is the key part. Other than in that context, I find anyone who uses the term ‘white knight’ unironically to have huge misogynistic tendencies and anger at the world. and the term has nothing to do with race, I think you’re very confused.

    This was pretty off-topic but since I was called out in a diatribe, let me tell you I just spent the last month in Germany, Berlin, and in Poland visiting the Auschwitz concentration camp, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to “stand by” while the world burns because someone isn’t a “blood relative.” I share different moral values than you, period. Scream and yell all you want in some sort of indignant rage; it won’t change my mind on that issue.

    No, I don’t stand idly by when someone is getting savaged, whether it’s a man or a woman. I believe in individual rights, and I stand up for them in more than just empty words. I bet you’d call the men who stormed the beach at Normandy “white knights” if you had the chance as well. God forbid someone think of somebody other than themselves, their family, or their own dick. @Jack, you’re a parody of yourself.

  43. I feel like a fair number of manosphere writers advocate working outside of the system instead of against it, but then completely turn around and either become visibly angry about things that are entirely out of their control, or unnecessarily try to push their subjective view of “the natural order of things” on others. I find the hypocrisy very disheartening and slut shaming is a topic that comes up in such a manner frequently.

    While some of these writers do give out great pieces of information, it’s difficult for me to respect them as a whole.

  44. @billyboy

    You may have noticed that while BD’s observations on relationship dynamics are mostly accurate (though at times he might misinterpret the causes of the stated facts), he and the majority of the men commenting on his blog have very little moral values / solidarity to begin with. These men want to take without giving, except for ocassional sexual satisfaction. In their view, the moment a woman stops supplying them with happiness, she is to be “nexted” (replaced).

    I have no issue with the idea of multiple simultaneous sexual relationships, especially if all involved are being honest with and supportive of each other and no one gets lied to.

    Nonetheless, what I have read here so far makes me wonder what these men would do if, for example, one or more of their MLTRs got cancer or another serious disease (cancer is quite a common occurence), suffered an injury with permanent consequences, contracted a flu and needed someone to make their tea etc. Of course, men and women in truly or seemingly monogamous marriages have hard time dealing with such situations. Who wouldn’t.  And many of them leave.

    Following the logic of this blog, this is not just “alright”, this is the (unambiguously) right thing to do – presuming it makes you happier or less miserable, which it almost certainly will. Dealing with shit is just what it is, it’s no easier for women than it is for men.

    Please don’t be surprised by their shocked response to you caring for another person’s well-being – it’s totally in line with their worldviews.

  45. In their view, the moment a woman stops supplying them with happiness, she is to be “nexted” (replaced).

    Incorrect. I don’t next women when they don’t “supply me with happiness.” They get nexted if the purposely introduce new UNhappiness into my life.

    And I would expect they do the same to me if I did that to them.

    what I have read here so far makes me wonder what these men would do if, for example, one or more of their MLTRs got cancer or another serious disease (cancer is quite a common occurence), suffered an injury with permanent consequences, contracted a flu and needed someone to make their tea etc

    Then I’m sorry you have such a warped view of what you have read here. I have cared for several MLTRs when they had medical problems, including long visits at the hospital, making them food, taking them to the doctor, and other assistance.

    Anyway, billyboy isn’t talking about being nice to women; he’s talking about saving the world, a completely different topic.

  46. Good 🙂

    I’m glad you have looked after your women and that you have confirmed it publicly.  I was (and still am) afraid that some men on here could think this behaviour represents oneitis and that if your partner gets sick, it brings new unhappiness into your life.

    I mean, if your partner is sick, it surely brings some unhappiness..? But anyway I’m glad you don’t see it as a reason to leave them to deal with bad stuff alone or with the help of a beta who might possibly be undesired in other circumstances.

    I apologise to you and all other men on here who did or would look after their long-term partners if the necessity arised. (Please note that I don’t refer to the situation where “she’s got many other people in her life to do this for her, so there is/was no necessity” – unless maybe one of the other people in her life was her husband.)

    I realise that you as well as the commenters on your blog generally are of above-average intelligence, analytical and well-meaning people, so you may feel offended by my above-expressed fear. The fear comes from personal first- and second-hand experience with alfas 1.0 and a wannabe-alfa 2.0. (wannabe = in the process of becoming one, I hope)

  47. I mean, if your partner is sick, it surely brings some unhappiness..?

    I’ve never advised men to next based on unhappiness. I tell them to next based on drama. Two different things.

    If a woman gets sick and needs help, that’s fine, you should help her.

    If a woman gets mad at you and loudly complains about something and calls you an asshole, you should next her ass.

    Two entirely different scenarios.

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