Today I’m going to give you a quick list of dating techniques that DON’T work.

Why would I do that?

Simple. To save you time.

You may have heard the story about Thomas Edison being asked about his 10,000 failures while trying to invent the light bulb. His answer was, “I have not failed. I have found 10,000 things that don’t work.”

He’s right. Knowing what doesn’t work is hugely valuable information. Back when I was getting good at this stuff, I was hitting the trial-and-error thing really hard. I would test a technique several times on several women, and if it failed every time, particularly if it made the situation worse, I would stop doing it. More importantly, I would make a notation to never waste my time by trying it again. My goal, which I did hit, was to get to a point where all I was doing were things that reliably worked most of the time.

So today I’m going to give you a list of techniques that I have field-tested multiple times which did not work at all, so you don’t have to waste your time trying them out.

1. When Women One Night Stand YOU

True stat from my dating life: I have never, and I mean never, been able to have sex with a woman a second time once she had sex with me once and dropped me thereafter. I have never been able to re-acquire a woman who does this, no matter what I’ve tried. Even if she does respond to my texts and is friendly, we’re never going to have sex again.

Seriously. Not once. If we have sex once and she then vanishes, I will never see her again sexually no matter how hard I try. (Often this is because she was cheating on a boyfriend or husband by playing around with me, though not always.)

This is why, once I realize a woman has one-night-stood me, I just hard next her and move on. I don’t even try at that point; I know I’ll be wasting my time.

This is still true even if the sex was great for both of us, even if she orgasmed, even if the body language with her was positive, even if she said wonderful things about how much she liked me and wanted to see me again, and even if she proactively sent me positive texts the day after. If she vanished afterwards, no technique I have ever tried to bring her back into the fold has ever worked.

Women really do have a mental block about you once they decide you’re a “no” after first time sex or a first date (we’ll cover the first date scenario in a minute). This is one of the many reasons my goal is to have sex with a new woman twice, on two separate occasions, before I consider her “real” and actually in my life. In my ebooks , I call this Lock-In. Once she’s had sex with you twice, she’s in your life now, at least for a while. But if you’ve only had sex once, you’re not there yet (unless you enjoy one night stands, which I do not).

So if you ever have first-time sex with a woman and then she suddenly doesn’t respond to your texts, or is always “busy” when you pitch another meet, or casually blows you off, just let her go. She’s gone. Don’t waste your time on her. NEXT!

2. Re-Acquiring after a Post-First-Date Vanish

This is the exact same scenario as the above except that it applies to a first date where the woman suddenly doesn’t want to see you again. Here’s another true stat from my life: I have never, ever been able to have sex with a woman once she blew me off after a first date.

The reason should be obvious. It simply means she didn’t like me. I wasn’t her type, or whatever. Yet this happens even if I do beat the odds and end up with a second date much later, like 6 months after or even a year or two after the first date. Yes, that’s actually happened to me once or twice. Was I successful in getting to sex? Nope.

Once a woman has had a first date with you and puts you in the “no” category, no force on Earth is doing to turn that around. Once again, you need to next, and move on to the next woman on the list. Don’t waste any time trying to get a second date with a woman who ignores you or clearly blows you off after the first one.

3. Verbalizing Sexual Actions Right Before You Do Them

It took me a long time to figure this out, but once I did I was very happy to never do it again. I’ve already discussed the texting version of this failed technique here.

Never tell a woman you’re about to do anything physical or sexual right before you do it. Tons of guys do this, because it seems like the “natural” or “sexy” or “dominant” thing to do. “I’m going to kiss you,” or “I’m going to fuck you,” or “I want to take your shirt off.”

This goes back to one of my old rules, true today as it’s always been. With women, if you say it, it’s forbidden, but if you just do it, it’s acceptable.

Here’s one very simple example. There are lots of married guys whose wives know they cheat on them, yet they stay anyway. Just think about what would have happened to those guys if on the first date with these women they said, “When we get married, I’m going to cheat on you.”

The woman would have thrown a drink in his face and never gotten married. But because these guys just did it without saying it, the women put up with it.

Sexual escalation works the same way. If you’re on a date that’s going well and you just confidently kiss her, she’ll probably love it. But if you first say, “I’m going to kiss you,” or “I want to kiss you right now,” or the beta male version, “Can I kiss you?”, you’ll spike fear and ASD and you’ll likely get resistance. So don’t say that stuff. Just do it (and of course if she resists, stop.) That applies to kissing, sex, removing clothes, whatever.

Talk about the great sex after you’ve had it. Not right before.

4. Arguing or Debating with Women on Dates

Many men know that demonstrating strong Alpha traits is a good thing that creates attraction. The problem is that many Alphas go too far with this, and fall into the trap of actually arguing with a woman or debating her on some political issue on a first or second date.

Doing this will NOT get you laid. It will just piss her off and you’ll never see her again. Even if you’re right and she’s wrong, you lose.

Never, ever, EVER argue with a woman before you’ve had sex with her twice (meaning on two separate occasions). Never, ever, EVER strongly and verbally disagree with or debate a woman on any political issue she believes in before you’ve had sex with her twice.

Seriously, man. Do you want to be right or do you want to get laid? I choose laid. Every time.

After you’ve had sex with her twice, then you’re in. At that point, you can relax and argue/debate with her all you like and she’ll keep sleeping with you.

A lot of you bastards are intelligent, highly opinionated men with big egos (including me). As I’ve explained in detail before, you need to bite your tongue when she says something stupid, irritating, or something you strongly disagree with. If you want to get laid, shut up and let her spew whatever woman logic she wants. If you still want to go all Alpha Male 1.0 on her later and set her straight, that’s fine, but do it after you’ve had sex with her twice.

5. Kissing on the First Date

I’ve already talked about this one in-depth in my ebooks and elsewhere, so I’m going to just quickly summarize here.

Many guys brought up in the seduction community are addicted to the idea of the “kiss close.” Their goals are to kiss as fast as possible, and somehow turn that into sex. Maybe that works with drunken women at the dance club at 2am in the morning, but in a first date environment, this is death. It will spike ASD and reduce the odds of you ever getting to sex with her. I have massive amounts of empirical data to back this up (and not just my experiences, but those of other men too).

Kino (touch), sex talk, be Alpha, do all that other great stuff on a first date, but do NOT actually kiss her unless you are100% certain that you’ll be having sex on that first date. Save the kissing for true sexual escalation on the second date, when you know your odds of actually having sex are high because she’s already alone with you at your place.

6. Negs

This is another old-school, outdated, and in my opinion, useless technique from the PUA world.

I’ve had sex with a huge number of women, and I’ve probably “negged” less than 3% of them. Negging, a light insult wrapped in the package of a complement to slightly reduce the self-esteem of a woman, will not get you laid. Seriously. It won’t. I haven’t negged a woman in many, many years. Even when I was doing it years ago, I only did it to the super hot 10s. Use negging very sparingly.

If you congruently demonstrate extreme outcome independence with a woman, particularly a really hot one, that will do all the negging you need. You don’t actually have to insult a woman on top of that. Doing this will actually reduce your odds of success with most normal women.

7. Hotel Closes

A hotel close is when you get a woman to a hotel room to lay her quickly for the first time. While I admit I have done this successfully a once or twice in the past, the vast majority of the times I attempted it, it blew up in my face. Far more often than not, I ended up scaring women, insulting them, spiking ASD into the stratosphere, and often wasting a huge amount of money.

The only exception to this rule is when you’re travelling. Under these conditions, you’re already “at” the hotel room, so it’s fine. The hotel room becomes like your “home,” so the dynamic is different. You’re not trying to get her to a hotel room you have to book while she’s standing there, her ASD rising every second.

I’m willing to admit that I may have been doing this wrong, so if any of you guys have had first-time sex in a hotel room when you were not travelling, with at least 10 different women, within the first one or two dates, and you didn’t give these women any money, then please describe in the comments the technique you successfully used so we all can learn. Assuming that doesn’t happen, I’m going to say that hotel-closing is a high-risk, low-reward technique that isn’t worth your time.

If any of you have any other techniques, which I have not listed here, that you’ve tried many times with many women and had a 100% failure rate on (or close to it), please let us know in the comments.

35 Comments on “Dating Techniques That Don’t Work

  1. “I’m just going to put the head in.  I want to see what it looks like.”

    The day I lost my virginity to a woman I could have fucked a month sooner if I had had more experience and more balls.

  2. I actually had a girl pull #1 on me a couple of years ago.  We hooked up and shared some text niceties afterwards.  But, for the next week, trying to get her back over to my place was like pulling teeth.  Soon, thereafter, I got the hint and moved on.

    And looking back now, I’m convinced she was either cheating on a guy with me OR she was a provider-hunter.  I say that because ten months after we hooked up, she popped out a kid (Not mine, thank god).

  3. The “ask before you do things” thing is the big thing among feminists recently. This video is one of the most painful things I’ve ever watched. I would love to see the sex lives of the people who promote this crap. These guys must never get laid, while the women probably sleep with guys who don’t ask all the time (unless they’re fat and bitter, then they probably just fantasize about a sexually aggressive man).

  4. Yep, the neg is way overrated.

    Pretty much agree with all those points except 3. There is a percentage of women who respond and get excited by going mode one. It leaves a very strong mark. Though I would advise only using it in club type environments.

     

  5. When it comes to online dating, never, ever, send long messages.  I know some guys who will answer a womans questions with long responses, and it just turns her off.  Same goes for in person conversation.  Hell I made that mistake a few days ago,  me and my GF have just started an open relationship, but I haven’t done online dating in some time, I had a woman interested, I answered her question with a long response, never heard from her again.

    Guys, keep it short, and polite, and ask her questions instead.

  6. I’ve had the Neg backfire more times than its been helpful. It just has to be soft and well worded to have any effect at all…

    Most of my attempts are from way back when Tom Lykis talked about the “back handed compliment”, seemed so genius at the time.

     

  7. Negging ONLY works if it’s a part of you. If you have to think about it you’re doing it wrong. I can be a pretty big ass hole not because I’m negging, but because that’s how I’ve always been. Ex: A few days ago a co-worker of mine and I are talking. She’s being rude calling me arrogant and such , and just talking a lot of shit. I tell her I have 1 thing for women with big mouths. She immediately stopped being rude and thought it was funny. I didn’t think about neg

  8. I didn’t think about negging at the time, I just said it. I’m that way around my best friends so I’m that way around women too.

  9. @BD and Tony: The United States Military is now being taught in official training seminars that if they don’t ask for verbal consent before initiating a kiss or sex, they have committed sexual assault or rape. Check out the military training seminar:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nFQ4WBAguQ&feature=youtu.be

    Also read the horrifying title of this article. If you think you can stomach it, read the rest:

     

     

  10. Thank you for the post.

    About kissing on the first date/meet:

    A recent lay, pre-lay, second-meet, was complaining to me that I did not even kiss her at the end of our first meet (3 hours spent in 2 venues altogether; yes, too long for you, I know, but I knew her from a class and just hung out together).

    The second meet that led to the lay, I still hadn’t kissed her as she was standing right outside my building door, after I’d opened the door. She said “why should I come up?”. It was then that went down two steps, kissed her, and she came upstairs with me, for the lay.

    So I almost missed her. Or maybe not, because we did it.

  11. RecepH: It was probably because you didn’t kiss her the previouse date that she was so eager on the second. You made her hamster spinn.

  12. Pretty much agree with all those points except 3. There is a percentage of women who respond and get excited by going mode one. It leaves a very strong mark. Though I would advise only using it in club type environments.

    Yeah, I’m only talking here about a dating environment. I can’t speak regarding club game.

    When it comes to online dating, never, ever, send long messages.  

    Correct!

    Negging ONLY works if it’s a part of you.

    Your example isn’t a dating example. I’m talking about dating and women you have sex with.

    A recent lay, pre-lay, second-meet, was complaining to me that I did not even kiss her at the end of our first meet

    Haha! Yet she fucked you on the second date. Broken record time: Always ignore what women SAY, only pay attention to what they DO.

    You didn’t “almost miss her.” You did it exactly right.

  13. I’ve done the hotel close on 1 1st date (not enough sample size, I know) but was a cheating ONS (which she freely admitted later). In those instances, it may be okay. We hit it off SO well (I’ve only had maybe one other woman come close to the level of chemistry we had.), so it could have been that. As far as money, she paid for half. 🙂

    But the “don’t send long messages” – I think it should be “say less than she does.” There are many singulars who will write long messages themselves, and in those instances it’s easy to mirror that, generate a lot of rapport very quickly, and have an extremely quick (3-4h) meet-to-lay. I’ve had several mLTRs come of this. Sometimes it makes sense to keep it proportional – vary it based on the type of woman she is.

  14. I remember debating you a bit re: Will / Jada Smith open marriage. I didn’t think her comments were indicative of an open marriage, you said the opposite.

    “And just because your man is attracted to another woman, does not mean he doesn’t love you. That’s not what it means. And it doesn’t mean he’s going to act on it.”

    It’s not an open marriage.

    Full article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/04/jada-pinkett-smith-open-marriage_n_7510392.html

  15. But the “don’t send long messages” – I think it should be “say less than she does.” There are many singulars who will write long messages themselves, and in those instances it’s easy to mirror that, generate a lot of rapport very quickly, and have an extremely quick (3-4h) meet-to-lay. I’ve had several mLTRs come of this. Sometimes it makes sense to keep it proportional – vary it based on the type of woman she is.

    Disagree. Just because you made that work a few times doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Your overall odds, including with singulars, are better if you keep the online messages brief.

    You can get into more detail during a subsequent text or IM conversation once you’re off the dating site and (ideally) the first date is already scheduled. That’s perfectly fine.

    I’ve had sex with a lot of women online, including VYW singulars, and have never written a message on an online dating site longer than about 4 sentences.

    It’s not an open marriage

    Already read the article. It indicates they DO have an open marriage. She said: “I’m not his watcher. He’s a grown man. Here’s what I trust — I trust that the man that Will is, is the man of integrity. So, he’s got all the freedom in the world. As long as Will can look himself in the mirror and be okay, I’m good.”

    It’s a repeat of what she already said in the video I referenced. That doesn’t sound like absolute monogamy to me. But if it sounds like that to you, great.

    Now please stay on topic. Post any further discussion regarding her at the original blog post.

  16. I live in Japan and all of my closes are hotel closes. Typically the women work in the city and live far outside so it is more convenient to have a date and walk to a nearby “love hotel”. On a first or second date I would typically go to a pub with drinks and escalate, then walk nearby and say something like how about some karaoke in here (the love hotels have karaoke and movies). Some women will refuse, others will give some resistance, and others will go in without objection. Culturally it is acceptable here because houses are so small and distant. I have never hotel closed in the US. I suspect a car would be easier if you have no place to go.

  17. Wow….timely article. Just going through #1 now. Thanks for saving me the time.

    To the poster above talking about the kiss on date 1…..when you don’t kiss them on the first date, they aren’t sure you like them. And then you ask for a second date…….they don’t know what to think and it drives them crazy. Which is exactly where you want them.

  18. Another related point on the not verbalizing: I have found that some women on dating sites will throw out a ‘What are you going to do to me?’ text before meeting. DO NOT RESPOND WITH ANYTHING SEXUAL. This is classic beta bait.

    If you respond with a detailed description of what you’re going to do to her sexually, she will see you as a little beta lapdog and you’ll be toast. Far better to be mysterious or aloof, respond with a ‘You’ll find out…’ or similar to get her hamster going.

  19. Hotel Closes:

    1- Very doable with a married/attached woman.

    2- Very doable with a chick who is from a certain cultural background (Japanese, some E. European, etc).

    3-Very doable if she is extremely horny.

    4-Very difficult in most other circumstances.  Almost impossible in any kind of “dating” scenario.

  20. Hotel closes

    I have these figured out. Open marriage here so no choice. All pulls were from Tinder and dating sites. This is a solid system.

    You have 2 options:

    1. Frame the entire meet as a casual sex meet (hook-up). This basically results in a ONS. You tell them ahead of time you want to take them out for drinks and then if you get along you plan to take them to a 5* hotel afterwards to hit up the mini-bar and get room service etc. (the pretext is there, you’re basically a player that prefers ‘classy’ hook-ups)

    Done it in as quick as just 1 drink then hotel room for sex, literally booked the room on my phone in front of them then checked in with them standing there. Huge numbers game, trawling for DTF chicks. Be prepared for some standard shit tests “so how many other girls have you brought to hotels on the first date?” etc. and have your responses prepared.

    2. Tell them you live well outside the city and are there for work often (true, in my case) and that sometimes, rather than commute, if you’re busy with work or have plans that night or tired you sometimes just book a room if working from home the next day isn’t an option.

    Then run a standard no kiss first date and tell her you need to leave early but next time you meet you might just get a room to give yourselves more time together. Second date you have an optional pull location. The beauty of this is you only have to book the room if she’s ok with coming back there (again, in front of her on your phone), because you always have the option of the room or just heading home and ‘working from home’ the next day.

    Both of these methods work like a charm and I have repeated them over and over again with success. The key is the set-ups need to be done well ahead of time, ideally when you’re messaging about what you do for work and/or where you live “Well I actually live at bla, but I’m often in the city working so sometimes I commute but tonight I’m staying at the Shangri-La as I often stay at hotels when I’m too tired to commute or meeting friends in the city like I did tonight bla bla bla”.

    The other advantage is if she’s able to host, she’ll often invite you to her place rather than you ‘having to get a hotel’, ain’t that sweet!?

    You don’t just try and pull to a hotel on the date without a set-up, can’t imagine that working consistently.

    Happy to answer any questions re. these methods, I have executed them successfully countless times.

  21. I live in Japan and all of my closes are hotel closes. Typically the women work in the city and live far outside so it is more convenient to have a date and walk to a nearby “love hotel”. 

    I think this would be easier in Japan than in the West because the “love hotels” there are more socially accepted. But I could be wrong.

    Huge numbers game, trawling for DTF chicks.

    I think that’s the key in your option 1 system.

    I LOVE your option 2, and I love all the pre-framing you’re doing. I think that’s the key there.

    I could actually do that with honesty, since I live way out in the suburbs. I have rules against spending that much money on women for 1st/2nd dates (even a semi-shitty hotel room is going to cost you over $100 + tax), but I may give your option 2 a try next time I’m dealing with a woman who lives way across town (and is worth the effort).

  22. Be prepared for some standard shit tests “so how many other girls have you brought to hotels on the first date?” etc. and have your responses prepared.

    And what is the response?

    If you say “never” you’re branded a liar.

    If you say “rarely” ever then she’s being more slutty than most. ASD.

    If you say “all the time” you run the risk of the player label or her feeling like a number (slut).

  23. And what is the response?

    Do you do this with all the girls?

    ‘Only the Pretty ones’

    How many girls do you take to hotels on the first date?

    ‘I don’t kiss and tell.’

    Is this where you bring all your Tinder girls?

    ‘Are you getting jealous already? That’s adorable’

    All said with a confident cheeky grin.

    This is THE most basic shit test in existence. Any guy who does this often will have a set of pre-canned responses for it.

  24. Great post. First time I comment here, so thanks for all the good advices on the blog.

    If the hotel stuff doesn’t really worked for me neither, I just wanted to point out that CARS however work far far better  in my experience.

    I am 22 y.o and still live with my parents, brother and sister. I obviously have trouble during the sexual escalation phase because of “logistics” unfortunately.

    I had to find a way because my only chance to get interesting results with those chicks is that :

    – My family being absent (which more than rarely occurs).

    – She has her own place downtown and she is willing to invite me at her place between 1 and 3 dates.

    You can imagine the odds… Fortunately I have a small car.

    Even though most of my lays are with women who had their own place, I noticed that having my car as my “lay-mobile” works better than I expected in the first place.

    The key points are to be able escalate sexually in a corner of a fancy / lounge pub (still not kissing unless she lets you go as far as touching her boobs or better).

    After the pub, we usually go have a walk and I lead the way to my car parked not too far from there (less than 5-10 minutes). Second key point is to be very outcome independent again during that walk no matter what she says (usually is a good time for her to ask shitty questions).

    Once we’re at my car, I can either tell her that I can drop her at her place (in which case you can always try to get invited)

    If not, and here is a little bit trickier, I just tell her to get in because I know “a nice place to stay” and I drive to some quiet place (usually business neighbourhoods at night are very quiet and enlighted, we don’t wanna scare the chick right?).

    After that, I kiss her and I am usually able to get her in the car.

    Can’t tell that it works all the time, but it saved my ass at least 10 times.

  25. Yeah, I would feel uncomfortable if a guy I didn’t know well asked me to go to a hotel with him. It would feel impersonal, skeevy and also a bit desparate for sex (unless of course the guy happened to be traveling, as opposed to purchasing a hotel room solely for the purpose of getting laid). Hotels are expensive, too, so it would almost feel like paying for sex if the guy paid for the whole thing (same as I would feel if a guy wanted to buy me an expensive dinner). Personally, I think dates should be kept inexpensive and personal – it’s an opportunity to get to know someone and have fun, not to try to impress her by throwing around money, which might make her think you’re trying to “buy” her. (I admit I did this when I was younger with a guy I was really interested in, and the effect it had was turning me into a provider/caretaker – I imagine it’s the same for guys who do this with women).

    I had a pretty odd experience a few years ago – a guy I had gone to school with reconnected with me on Facebook, and suggested we go get something to eat and go to the karaoke bar afterward. Maybe I was being a bit naive, but I just figured he wanted to hang out and catch up – it didn’t cross my mind that he thought it was a date. When I was getting ready to leave, he suddenly tried to kiss me, at which point I explained I wasn’t interested. Nothing he said or did up until that point implied he was interested in me sexually, so it was pretty jarring. Over the next few weeks, he followed up with at least a dozen texts, many of which were sexual in nature (when I had clearly established I had no interest). So yeah … good example of what not to do!

  26. hmmm… in my experience the no kiss clause can be waived on one exception, and it does appear more and more in this current market, if the girl is “polyamorous” (girl talk for promiscuous and unfateful), i have had a couple of experience with these kind of girls and i have found that the hamstering to justify polyamory usual makes it so a girl is more open to pursue a guy even after a first date kiss .

  27. I agree with most all of what you and the commenter have said except for not sending long texts. I can’t stand when guys only send short, boring, non-conversational texts. What is the point of even communicating with a guy whose texts are short, bland, substance free, and give zero indication of his personality. I’m not saying long texts will help if the girl isn’t physically attracted to you, bc they won’t. But if she is, short boring texts can kill it. Guys who never text anything interesting and just text things like “how was your day?” or to make plans are a huge pet peeve of mine and I hear girls complain about boring texters all the time. If she has any brains at all, you have to keep her mentally stimulated…there are just way too many other distractions and interesting things nowadays to maintain interest in someone who never has anything to say (in text or in person).

    That video of the guy asking the girl’s permission before every sexual move was possibly the most anti-erotic thing I’ve ever seen, I couldnt even watch the whole thing it was so cringe – inducing. They should have titled it “how to be a huge pussy and dry hers up at the same time”. Guys who ask permission before kissing (or any other step) frustrate and annoy me almost as much as boring texters.

  28. Kryptokate:

     

    I think as I grow older I am becoming a boring texter (at least more than before). I used to really put a spark into conversations, be witty and personal etc. which resulted in longer texts (and more investment from me early on in the relationship). However 90% of girls were just very boring themselves, as if they expected me to put in all the effort. It often resulted in me writing funny personalized and original message and girls responding with three smileys and two words. It wasn´t that they weren´t interested, in fact they enjoyed my messages (and attention), they just weren´t investing nearly as much as I, as if I was their entertainer.

    So I learned to match my texts with hers – I start a bit on a high note, but I quickly match her attitude, if she responds dully and briefly, I am going to tune down to her level. If she responds with stimulating message herself, I see no problem with longer response.

     

    But still, the strategy of texting very little is good as well, it sends a message that you are a busy and scarce guy and you can save your energy for F2F interaction.

  29. I’m with NamelessOne on the texting. I’ll do the stimulating conversation thing if a woman stimulates me, but I’m not gonna sit around trying to think of something interesting to send because “girls love that”.

    The worst thing you can do is put in a ton of effort to texting that is not reciprocated. It’s an attraction killer. So if a women wants interesting convo with me she needs to bring the fire herself, I have more than enough to lob back.

    For KryptoKate, have you ever stopped fucking a guy because he was a boring texter?

    I wonder if this is something girls complain about, but remain highly attracted to the guy doing the behavior, just all sort of stuff attractive “assholes” do.

  30. Interesting perspective on #5

    My first thought is it would come off as a bit ‘nice’ not going for the kiss , like you weren’t prepared to go for what you want and take action.

    In saying that I had a few dates recently , after some reading I was all about the kino and escalation.A couple of girls I made out with pretty quickly into the date and got some boob action.One I even got under the shirt and inside panties.Neither of these progressed to a second date.

    This made me think if you makeout then sex is pretty much on the table for date 2 , which takes away the “Just happened” part and leaves more at stake for a second date.

  31. @ John  Yes, I have actually. A guy who texts me regularly but with no substance just to say “have a great day beautiful” or “how was your day” or “what’s up gorgeous” or “hope you have a great week” will actively start to piss me off because those aren’t communications they’re just pokes for attention. And I have nothing to say to any of them. I would much rather receive zero texts than substantiveless, meaningless texts. It’s a chore trying to come up with shit to say in response and things that are both effortful and boring are the bane of my existence. So either don’t text or have something interesting to say which prompts actual thought or response.

    And yes I have heard girls complain about this. Then again, I don’t tend to be friends with dummies. And I’m more introverted and cerebral than most. So I’m not saying this is always applicable. If a girl gives you one word, substantive-less responses, clearly you shouldn’t waste time coming up with interesting texts. I’m just saying it would be a big mistake NOT to reciprocate with a girl who’s indicated that she likes engaging in more in-depth messages. Matching the tone of one’s conversational partner is always appropriate in any instance though.  But the fact is that lots of people are more introverted in cognitive style and introverts generally hate small talk (and that would apply to text as much as in person).

  32. No kiss unless you can close on sex?  Wow.  I’ll take your word.  That would be a mistake I would definitely make.  I like the notion of going for a kiss early.  Mmmmmm, but would that apply to VYW as well??

  33. Sort of makes sense.  Over a 2-year period, I had about 60 first dates, of which 38 were kiss closes.  But only 4 went all the way to sex at a later date.

    The reason I was going for kiss closes was that Roosh, in his book ‘Bang’, was adamant about kissing on the first date.  Now, it turns out, that was destructive advice.

    38 kiss closes for just 4 converted to eventual sex..

     

  34. Do you have any advice on how to recover after a failed hotel close?

    It was on a second date. I had the hotel lined up in SF which is a halfway point between where she and I live.

    Told her the hotel was there for convenience since I had business to take care of in SF and my brother was also coming to visit(both true actually).

    Wish I would’ve read this article before I suggested she ‘hang out’ in my hotel room(which was attached to the restaurant we had drinks and food). Didn’t go over well.

    She ubered home with little more than a light hug. Ouch.

    I’m thinking I won’t hear from her again. However, I’m betting that if I pitch another(3rd) date that is totally neutral, daytime activity I can at least hit the resent button to recover.

    Any advice?

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