It’s always nice when science reinforces the things I’ve been saying for years. It happens so often these days I’ve pretty much stopped reporting it. Yet I recently came across this New York Times article that’s quite wonderful. It’s got me written all over it.

I have said for many years, including in my free ebook about it, the following things:

  • Women are biologically wired to get BORED with their lover in long term relationships.
  • This happens even if her boyfriend/husband is perfect and does everything right.
  • This boredom usually begins in earnest around the three-year mark in a relationship.
  • This boredom is intensified if she is monogamous with her partner and/or if she lives with her partner.
  • Women will not tell men they do this. They all say “I won’t be like that”. When years go by and they do become like that, they deceptively blame the boredom on their husbands, or the effort involved in raising kids, or their work, or other external factors that have nothing whatsoever to do with the real reason, which is sexual boredom created by her own biology.
  • As soon as women get divorced and starting having sex with new men, this boredom magically vanishes. For “unknown” reasons. The reason is, of course, that she’s no longer monogamous.
  • The above facts are so horrific to people, so against everyone’s cherished Societal Programming, even scientists who know it’s true can’t bring themselves to come out and say what I just said.

Exhibit A is this NYT article. It’s about a new drug they’re testing that has been dubbed the “female Viagra”. It has been created to combat the exact boredom I talk about…that experienced by women in three-year or longer monogamous relationships.

While interviewing one woman,

“Thinking about your desire now,” Miller said, “would you say it is absent, very low, low, reasonable or present?”

“Low.” This was no different from Linneah’s reply at the trial’s outset two months before.

“When your partner initiated sexual activity over the past eight weeks, did you show avoidance behavior?”

“Yes.”

“Like earlier to bed?”

“Yes.” Linneah’s voice lurched louder; she laughed; it was a relief to talk bluntly.

“Do you have pleasant feelings when you’re touched?”

“Yes.”

So physically the woman is fine. But mentally she’s no longer attracted to her husband.

Yes! This is a mental issue, not a physical one. There is nothing physically wrong with her at all. That’s why if she divorced her husband (which most women end up doing) and had sex with a new man, all of a sudden she would be completely sexually healthy, both mentally and physically.

Later, after her appointment, she told me that in fact she has orgasms pretty much every time she and her husband have sex — that wasn’t the problem. “There’s something that’s stopping me from wanting it,” she said. “I don’t know what it is. I can’t tell you what it is.”

But I can. She’s been with her husband in a monogamous relationship for longer than three years. She still loves him, and her body works fine, but she no longer is sexually attracted to him. THIS IS NORMAL. THIS IS HOW WOMEN WORK. If you expect any different, you’re an idiot deluded by your own Disney desires.

When they were dating and out with other couples, Linneah would think, “I just want to get home with him, I just want to get home with him,” she recalled. But that lust had dwindled. Around the arrival of their second child in 2004, something insidious crept in, partly fatigue but partly something else that she couldn’t name.

Since most women don’t read scientific studies, divorce statistics, or blogs written by me, they have no idea why they start getting bored with their monogamous husbands. They just assume it’s because the husbands are being jerks, or they’re “stressed”, or “raising kids” or whatever. But notice that there was “something else she couldn’t name”. She doesn’t want her husband to fuck her any more, and she can’t put a finger on why.

…women raised a mix of possible reasons. There were the demands of graduate school, the demands of children, the demands of work, medical issues, men who weren’t always as kind or nearly as engaged as they could be. But at bottom there seemed to be one common cause: they had all grown tired of sex with their long-term partners.

The go-to phrase in the above quote is “men who weren’t always as kind or nearly as engaged as they could be”.

When you find a woman who is Not Like The Rest™ and are stupid enough to ignore everything I’ve ever said because you “have to settle down eventually”, when your wife’s biology kicks in and she stops wanting to have sex with you after three years, and you ask her why, she’s going to blame YOU. That’s right. YOU.

Like most married men hear all the time, you’re going to hear a big list of all the things you’re doing wrong, and how if you just “shaped up”, she would start having sex with you again. And it will be a lie. It will likely have nothing to do with you. It will be about her. Her biology. But she can’t, and won’t, say that.

Then you’ll get pissed off and after much chaos, get divorced, then you’ll post on my blog or forum about how right I was and how you should have listened to me.

But I digress.  Let’s continue this sad tale…

Around once a week, her husband tried to reach through the invisible barriers she built — the going up to bed early, the intense concentration on a book, the hoping he was too tired to want anything but sleep. “He’ll move closer to me in bed, or put his arm around me, or rub my back.”

Yep. Anything to get out of having icky sex with my husband! Ew!

I hope all you guys out there who want to get married and monogamous someday are paying very close attention.

She willed herself not to refuse him. And mostly, she didn’t. Usually they had sex about four times each month. But it upset her that she had to force herself and that she put up those barriers to deter him from reaching more often.

So even when she had sex, she didn’t like it AND she felt guilty that she didn’t like it.

“I’m scared that if it’s slimmed to this by now, what’s going to happen as we get older?” she said. “I want to stay close, not just psychologically, physically. I want to stay in love. I have a friend, they have sex so intermittently, every three months. She is so unhappy. I don’t want that to happen to me.”

This is another reason this sexual decline in mono-marriages is so common; all of her other married girlfriends are also avoiding sex with their husbands. So it becomes a normal and accepted thing within her social circle.

I experienced this personally. Back when I was married, my wife at the time had three girlfriends who had also been married longer than three years, and all three of them constantly reported to her how rarely they had sex with their husbands.

She used to say to me “Jennifer and Suzi only fuck their husbands like once every two months! We have sex once a week! And that’s STILL not enough for you??? They said you should be thankful!!!”

Now before you start calling my ex-wife a bitch, let me repeat it yet again: This is normal. This is how women are. This is how women have been biologically wired to behave for hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution. Just like the woman in the article, there is usually no malice behind it. It’s just how women are.

Finally, the article gets to the core of the matter…

But for many women, the cause of their sexual malaise appears to be monogamy itself. It is women much more than men who have H.S.D.D., who don’t feel heat for their steady partners. Evolutionary psychologists argue that this comes down to innate biology, that men are just made with stronger sex drives — so men will settle for the woman who’s always near.

Dingdingding!

Bingo, scientists!

Women get sexually bored. Men (usually) do not. Women are horny only at certain points in their lives. Men are always horny.

How, then, can long term monogamy be expected to work?

The answer is: it can’t.

Want more proof?

Dietrich Klusmann, a psychologist at the University of Hamburg-Eppendorf in Germany, has provided a glimpse into the bedrooms of longtime couples. His surveys, involving a total of almost 2,500 subjects, comprise one of the few systematic comparisons of female and male desire at progressive stages of committed relationships. He shows women and men in new relationships reporting, on average, more or less equal lust for each other. But for women who’ve been with their partners between one and four years, a dive begins — and continues, leaving male desire far higher.

Women get bored, men do not. Women get bored at between “one and four years”. What have I been saying about the magical three-year mark?

As if that wasn’t enough validation of what I’ve been saying:

Within this plunge, there is a notable pattern: over time, women who don’t live with their partners retain their desire much more than women who do.

Dingding again! What have I been saying forever?  Moving in with a woman increases the speed at which she will become bored with you. This is a corollary to another concept I’ve explained for years: The more often you see a woman, the faster she will become sexually bored with you. Why do you think I talk about the once-a-week rule for FBs and MLTRs?

Some of you have asked me why I have not moved in with a woman after all these years. Because I know what will happen if I do.

Others of you have expressed amazement and/or disbelief that many women in my life can still remain very horny for me after four or five years of consistent dating and sex, even when they know I’m out fucking other women.

It’s because I haven’t ever moved in with any of these women. Even when some of these women have begged me to do so.

Because I love happiness, I like my women to be horny for me. All the time. Moving in with a woman would eventually, not immediately but eventually, start to degrade that. If/when I move in with a woman down the road, which I probably will do, I can alleviate this problem by not being monogamous with her. She can still fuck other guys and I can fuck other women. This will greatly delay (though probably not prevent) her eventual boredom. On top of that, there will be no legal marriage (or at worst, a marriage with a rock-solid prenup), so if the relationship fails because of her boredom, no damage to my financial life occurs.

“The impact of relationship duration is something that comes up constantly,” she told me about her therapy sessions. “Sometimes I wonder whether it” — H.S.D.D. — “isn’t so much about libido as it is about boredom.”

Bingo again.

Why don’t these scientists just give me a call? I could save them bundles on research money.

Now here’s where things get really funny. These Societally Programmed scientists don’t want to admit what’s really going on…

“What protects desire in monogamous partnerships is a great empirical question,” Brotto said. “I don’t think there have been any good studies.”

Well shit, Mr. Scientist! Maybe there’s no study on how to maintain strong sexual desire in long term monogamous relationships because it’s impossible to do so. Because maybe, Mr. Fucking Scientist, human beings were never designed for absolute monogamy past about three years. But as a scientist you already knew that, didn’t you?  (And yes, I know there are always unusual exceptions to every rule.)

Look god dammit. A Ferrari is a hell of a car. But if you try to drive that Ferrari through a swamp, it isn’t going to do shit. It’ll just sit there and sink into the mud like any other heavy hunk of metal. It doesn’t matter how awesome a car it is, it was never designed to drive through swamps. 

Building your long term goals (much less building an entire society!) around the idea of driving Ferraris thorough swamps is stupid, childish, utopian, destructive, harmful, and ridiculous.

Do you see how painful this is for people to admit? Even people who know better like these silly scientists?

As if the article can’t get any better, it shows how this sexual husband-boredom is even happening to the female scientists…

Brotto, who is married and has three children, went on: “I’m a woman in a long-term monogamous relationship. I myself have felt firsthand very high passionate desire, which then wanes. I can relate to my patients completely.

Waaaahahaha!

Well I’m just shocked she’s in a “long-term monogamous relationship” and she doesn’t want to fuck her man either!

Honestly, it’s rare to find something this funny and sad at the same time.

Sometimes she discusses the option of open relationships. But even to contemplate this alternative is to ignite fears in both women and men, and those override the pining for lust.

And there it is. We come all the way back to the problem I battle with people, mostly men, every day: Everyone knows monogamy doesn’t work, but no one wants to try a different system.

“Yeah monogamy doesn’t work and sucks and creates all kinds of problems and we were never designed for it and I hate it, BUT I CANT LET HER FUCK OTHER GUYS! WHAT, ARE YOU INSANE??? RRRRRRAAAAAHH!!! So I’ll just be monogamous and have boredom and drama and cheating and breakups and divorces and fuck up my kids and…”

<Blackdragon does a forehead-slap>

Like the rest of the practitioners at the 16 research sites across the country that Adriaan Tuiten contracted to conduct the studies, Goldstein had to make sure that every applicant was in a stable relationship. Tuiten didn’t openly acknowledge monogamy as the core of the desire problem, but he knew he couldn’t use single subjects who might well find new lovers during the course of the trials. Their results might have to be tossed out because, with or without chemical aids, new lovers bring surges of lust.

Just. Amazing. See, nonmonogamous women don’t need their stupid female Viagra pill, because they know that nonmonogamous women don’t experience a decline in sexual desire. So they have to make sure to only find monogamous women, or else it would ruin their entire study.

I remember Tom Leykis making a joke about old married men and their old, ugly, fat, bitchy, nonsexual wives, and how these men “needed” Viagra. “Let these guys go fuck a cute 20 year-old girl, then watch and see if they need Viagra. You’d be shocked at how well their johnsons would suddenly work.”

I have talked about, numerous times, how my FBs and MLTRs will never get bored with me, but when they LSNFTE me and go to a monogamous boyfriend (or get married and have a new husband!), over time they will get bored with Mr. Monogamous, then dump the guy and come back to me. And keep coming back to me over and over again, yet they will never go back to Mr. Monogamy.

I don’t get monogamous with these women, and I don’t demand it of them, so they never get bored with me, even after years and years. It’s that simple. I’ve said before that I plan on having sex with most of my women, off-and-on, for the rest of their lives. This is why this is possible.

You can accomplish some really wonderful, enriching, powerful things if you just toss monogamy out the door and figure out how to make open, semi-open, or poly relationships work.

The question is, how much scientific evidence will it take to get you to do this?

169 Comments on “Women Get BORED With Their Monogamous Men – Even More Scientific Proof

  1. You write:
    “THIS IS NORMAL. THIS IS HOW WOMEN WORK” and
    “This is normal. This is how women are. ”

    You may want to ask yourself – why is this so?
    If we dig a little deeper in biology and refer to some of the more well-known research on the matter we find the following conclusion:

    A woman gets “bored” with a man, if after sex happens (a lot of sex) there is NO BABY. The man it seems (to her) is not able to produce offspring.
    Biology is simple. Sex is for babies and if there are not enough babies the woman is designed to find a more fertile solution.

    “But Maldek, you might say, I did have 1 baby with my wife when we were living together for 5 years and she STILL acted like that”.

    Yes you had 1 (one) baby in 5 years. For our modern society and our overpopulation problem, thats fine. But for mother nature thats not exactly stellar. Primitive societies in 4th world countries more often than not, have 15-20 kids during the fertile female years 12-40. Consider this, and re-think.

    Nature and female core feelings didnt change in the last century or two. The pill and condoms did.

    So if you live a career livestyle and do not want 5+ kids, it is wise to share your women with other men (open relationship) to avoid the blame for the lack of children.

    If on the other hand you want to marry, live monogamous and keep a happy and faithful wife you may want to consider a big family with ~3 kids every 10 years. So if you marry her with 20 you will have 3 kids by the time she is 30 and 5-6 when she is 40.

    These numbers seem to work in many parts of the world for the more traditional family models quite well.

  2. >If on the other hand you want to marry, live monogamous and keep a happy and faithful wife you may want to consider a big family with ~3 kids every 10 years. So if you marry her with 20 you will have 3 kids by the time she is 30 and 5-6 when she is 40.

    Aaaaaaand that will fix the massively far more serious and crippling problem of our communities supporting and endorsing the chauvanistic destruction of our marriages and paternity. . .

    , , ,how, exactly?

    It’s not really monogamy that guys have to toss so much as any relationship where the community matters. We can have love affairs now, and not much else, because the more the community around us is involved in our intimate relationships, the less stable and supportive and reliable and beneficial, etc, they become, to the point where getting involved is a serious legal risk.

  3. Some of us need the scientific proof to back it up but just as you have, I notice this too over the years. Currently, I’m seducing a married chick and it’s also funny how those types often times seem happy or put up a happy front for others.

  4. “It’s also funny how those types often times seem happy or put up a happy front for others.”

    This is a useless comment. Everyone puts up happy fronts, so it has nothing to do with someone being married versus not being monogamous, etc.

  5. Awesome summary. This research was also published in the Bergner book “What Do Women Want?”

    Lybrido will quickly become the next “hot monogamy” topic once it’s easily available.

    It may actually save a ton of marriages.

    Which wouldn’t be an issue if people just did the smart thing and threw monogamy away.

    It’s like how you don’t need blood pressure medicine if you eat healthy and exercise; make the smart decision and no drugs are necessary.

  6. I’m fucking admiring the shit out of you right now hahahaha (not being sarcastic, I’m legitimately doing so).

    I’ve adopted the BD lifestyle for about a year now. At first, thanks to my societal programming, I was somewhat reluctant to accept the idea of letting her fuck someone else…..I agreed with everything BUT THAT. I lived (suffered) through (more like ‘survived’) two LTRs and I was abhorrently ‘betaized’. I’m happy to recognize right now: What a GREAT mistake! :D.

    It was at a moment of deep reflexion that I thought to myself: “Dude, not only you have the certainty of being absolutely awesome, either by your academic achievements, social status, good health, etc, but you also fuck her really well. Some men find validation in all sorts of things. Social acceptance is a very valid incentive. Also, being good in bed (that is, being able to give her orgasms) is kind of a common denominator for all of us. Even if occasionally you’ve failed miserably in this last aspect with some other women, you have the certainty that you have the physical capability of giving her the best time in bed, and you’ve proven this to her and yourself. Therefore, even if she goes somewhere else and does fuck another guy, no man in this world would be so non judgemental, open-minded, comprehensive and affable as someone who knows he’s got his shit handled, is greatly self-affirmed and self-assured, is non-territorial, is non-possesive and is non-jealous. THIS is what summarizes what being “OUTCOME INDEPENDENT” means, that is: if things work out, GREAT, if things don’t, ALSO GREAT. Not “less-great”. EQUALLY GREAT. Hence, she will, beyond the shadow of a doubt, return to you, given that you NEVER ‘betaize’ yourself or compromise on your beliefs.”

    Right now, and for some time now, I don’t hide the fact that I don’t believe in the functionality of Monogamy. Sure, there’s lots of haters around. Particularly women *(duh). And many of them will try to bring you down or ridicule you (they would even go as far as trying it publicly). But the fact is this: Human beings are scientifically (as a physician, I’m all about evidence) proven INCAPABLE of long-term monogamy. That is THE FACT. Denying it doesn’t make it less true. Fighting against it doesn’t make it less true. Ridiculing someone who knows THIS TRUTH and LIVES BY IT, won’t make it less true. By definition, they are the ones ridiculing themselves comfortably ignoring what makes them uncomfortable.

    Thanks for everything BD. For the tough love and for bitch-slapping the beta out of men all around the world. This is what mankind’s smoldering masculinity needs right now, in a world were rampant and accepted feminism is influencing every single aspect of our culture and is making everyone, especially women, miserable.

    I’d love nothing more than drinking a beer or two with you someday!

    Éxitos!

    DaviT

  7. And in one fell swoop, you completely disregard the ability of strong masculine dominance and game to keep the interest of a woman over the course of many years. Ask any of my ex-girlfriends whom I went out with for more than 3 years if they ever got tired of sex with me. Ask any of the happy wives of prominent manosphere married writers if they are bored with sex with their husbands.

    As far as I am concerned, if a woman becomes bored of sex with her partner, then the fault lies with you, as a man. These studies are based upon average couples, with average blue pill men, who have no idea that the behaviours that they are exhibiting – that they have been programmed to by society – are in fact turning their women off them.

    This is the whole reason we learn this stuff, so that we might enjoy a healthy, loving and committed relationship for as long as we wish.

    You make no secret of your love for polyamory. Accept however that it is not everyone’s preferred choice, and however many big bold letters you use does not increase the veracity of your arguments.

    Going off this blog rapidly.

  8. Maldek may have a point about having kids. I have 5 children, each about two years apart and I wasn’t the one lacking sex drive in my marriage. My former sister in law, who has 7 children, used to say they had sex every night. Im part of a group for moms of large families and when those women get to talking about sex its usually complaints about their husband not wanting it enough, vs the other way around that I hear from women with two or three kids. Also most of the women in the large families are hoping for more children so they do have an incentive. Add that hormonal birth control can cause a lack of sexual desire and you have another issue.

    I also suspect that when women lose their desire its not just them. I think the men get more lazy about things and dont seduce her so she’s not turned on. I cringe when I think of someone rubbing my back to try and lead me to sex. There is no excitement there and women do need a little bit more to stimulate their imagination before getting turned on.

  9. @Maldek – I have seen that argument before, that a woman’s desire magically “resets” every time she has a baby from him. I have done a little research into this but not much, because of exactly what Acksiom said. Even if you are 100% right, it’s completely irrelevant, since no man in the modern western world is going to have 20 babies with a woman in order to maintain her sexual interest. (Much less afford that many children even if he wanted to.)

    And that assumes the woman is ABLE to have 20 babies. My mom wanted 10 children. She was forced to stop at five because she kept miscarrying at baby number six. She had three miscarriages before my parents finally gave up. So if you run into that, THEN what do you do? Again, your point is irrelevant.

    @YouSoWould – The argument of “If you have strong relationship game you can keep your wife interested forever” has been used before.

    Can a strong Alpha with rock-solid game and frame and relationship skill push out that three-year mark to five years or ten years or whatever? Of course. I have said many times that strong frame/game will extend the happy lifespan of monogamy. I’m in complete agreement with that.

    But we’re talking about “forever” here. Notice in your own example you’re not seeing those girlfriends any more.

    Past three years, fine. But please tell me a repeatedly proven list of techniques that keep a woman very horny for you in a 100% monogamous relationship with zero cheating while living with her for 30 years straight (without Maldek’s “technique” of having 20 children with her).

    I can’t wait to hear it.

  10. @DaviT — Thanks for those words of encouragement. I shared this blog entry online with some people I thought were open-minded, and I’m still stunned at the vitriolic response I received. I won’t do that again unless it’s a face-to-face meeting where misperceptions and misunderstandings can be addressed without sounding defensive.

    @YouSoWould — The comment you made moved the conversation forward. BD agreed with your point, up to a point. We need people like you to contribute towards gaining a deeper understanding, and the goal of figuring out ways to make relationships work better than the current broken system of Disney fantasy. Why be so upset you stop reading the blog and commenting?

  11. I’ve been discussing this with men for years. Even very open-minded, intelligent guys get very, very angry about this. YouSoWould’s response is very tame compared to the vitriol I’ve encountered, believe me.

    Long term monogamy, that I will someday find a girl who I can live the rest of my life with, is the most sacred of sacred cows. Expect a lot of anger when you bring up the realities to people, no matter how intelligent or rational they usually are about other issues.

  12. @YouSoWould

    This is the whole reason we learn this stuff, so that we might enjoy a healthy, loving and committed relationship for as long as we wish.

    What do you mean “we” kemosabe? 🙂

    The whole reason I’m learning this stuff is because the only way I could have a relationship (aka “sex”) was by trading commitment for it and, after riding the girlfriend, dry spell, girlfriend, dry spell, marriage, dry spell roller coaster, I realized that the traditional relationship model wasn’t for me.

  13. BD, do you distinguish between “monogamish” LTRs (90 or 95%) and full on OLTRs? What if studies showed a 90% faithful relationship had a significantly better chance of improving its longevity than say, a 50 or 60% faithful one? Would that be disqualified from consideration because it’s not completely closed, even if the two people see mostly just each other ?

  14. I suspect that a lot of modern day marriage failure is due to unhealthy social norms that have evolved and been allowed to fester over many centuries.

    Throughout history when things were more “normal”, it was customary for women to get married at much younger ages to older husbands. Some women would even marry as young as 13!! This may seem perverse, but it is actually around this age that a woman becomes biological fertile and sexually “ready”.

    Forcing or encouraging women to wait 10 years (or more) to get married and start having children as is our social custom is probably actually a much greater perversion of nature when you think about it and may be the cause of a lot of harm in itself!

    There also used to be greater pressure from society that women remain virgins before marriage which was probably more than just some mindless Christian tradition, but done for good reason.

    I have not found any real proof to back this up, but her being virginal and at an “impressionable age” I suspect are two major factors in a woman’s ability to bond in a long term monogamous relationship. Her having lots of babies probably helps later on too, but isn’t this the whole point of getting married in the first place? Well it used to be, maybe nowadays people just blindly follow social conventions like sheep?

    I strongly suspect that the way things “work” in today’s society completely stacks the deck against long term monogamous relationships success!

  15. I don’t think women in times past stayed married because they were more bonded to their husbands or still in love. They stayed married because they didn’t have a choice and were basically slaves.

    The Bible is full of slut shaming and that was back in a time when women were stoned to death for committing adultery. Obviously some of them were still willing to risk their lives. So the argument that polygamy works better, where only men get to screw around, really doesn’t fly either.

    Heck, women in some countries in Africa have their clits cut so that they will be less likely to be promiscuous and will be more willing to tolerate staying married to some guy with a bunch of wives. Its kind of like the practice they used to have of making some male slaves into eunuchs so they wouldn’t sleep with their wives.

    Marriage, for women throughout history wasn’t nearly as much about love as about slavery. Being married off to some old man at 13 and having to cook and clean for him the rest of your life without any chance to have fun would be awful. I love how men reminisce about this. Eyeroll….

    For women to want to get married makes sense really only in the sense of needing to be provided for so that they can raise children. Yet you all will complain all day about women wanting you for your money. Biology has us wired to look for someone who can take care of us when we are ready to settle down, its natural to want that and not necessarily a bad thing.

    Im not negating that people fall in love, because they do and that is what propels us to follow our biological urges. Underneath it all though is a desire on the part of women to be protected and provided for and for men to have someone who will take care of the home and kids. So once there are no little ones to take care of it makes sense that she isn’t as attached to him. Men love to make excuses for their own desire to stray and not admit that really women have that desire too, its just for different biological reasons so we go about it in a different way.

  16. BD, do you distinguish between “monogamish” LTRs (90 or 95%) and full on OLTRs?

    Yes, but only slightly. Both are different variations of OLTR. I use the dictionary definition of monogamy, therefore one is either monogamous or not. (One cannot be “pregnantish”.)

    What if studies showed a 90% faithful relationship had a significantly better chance of improving its longevity than say, a 50 or 60% faithful one?

    Then I would happily and wholeheartedly start recommending that people do the 90% thing.

    Would that be disqualified from consideration because it’s not completely closed, even if the two people see mostly just each other?

    No, that would be completely fine. If you’re married or similar and occasionally fuck one other person, that’s not polyamory or MLTR, but that DOES still qualify as “not monogamous”, “nonomongamous”, and OLTR. Therefore it’s fine and better than monogamy.

    One of the big challenges here is that when you start talking about open marriages or OLTR, some people immediately jump to the worst possible conclusions, like people fucking 12 different people on the side, STDs, etc. This is inaccurate in most cases.

  17. @lifeofalovergirl – well in times past there it was more of a social expectation for both women and men (who had to sacrifice too and provide safety and security) to commit to marriage for the purpose of raising children for the benefit of society. Some would consider it “slavery” others would call it “duty”.

    Not saying it is the perfect system or reminiscing about it, just speculating that past societies might have seen wisdom in women marrying young and virginal and that maybe this was because it improved the chances of stable long term monogamous relationships?

    As for the stoning to death of women, you are thinking of Islam, not Christianity.

  18. @DC, no I am referring to the Bible, which has references to women being stoned to death for cheating. Like the woman who was caught in adultery and they were going to stone her to death but Jesus said to let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It was part of the law in the Old Testament. The slut shaming parts can be found all over, like in Ezekiel there is imagery used to describe how filthy humanity is without God and it is compared to without a woman whose skirt is lifted before a bunch of men from a neighboring tribe.

  19. honestly don’t know why the article specify women when this type of behaviour is very common in both men and women after a while (years) it’s pretty normal the relationship gets boring even at a sexual level, it’s up to the couple to keep it pleasant, since we are ALL fascinated to go with new women/men it’s an animal instinct and not something typical only of women.

  20. Life of a Lover Girl is right. Fortunately, modern Christians disregard a lot of the things the Old Testament God made capital crimes.

    Adultery was actually a serious crime for men too. Not because they were trying to control male sexuality though. It would have been considered theft because they were stealing another man’s property.

    They treated rape the same way. The guy either had to marry the woman he raped or compensate her father for reducing his daughter’s market value. It was a crime against the man who owned the woman’s sexuality, rather than a crime against the woman.

  21. You women are the perfect example of why 71 percent of men between the ages of 18 to 34 are no longer interested in marriage. After all, why should they waste time getting married when their bitch wife (like you) will just divorce him for childish reasons and then turn around and ass rape him in divorce court and take all his money?

    http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/young-men-and-women-differ-on-the-importance-of-a-successful-marriage/

    I hope you ladies have fun growing old alone with your 10 cats. Your daughters as well, since the younger men have no interest in marriage anymore, you and your daughters will be growing old alone with your cats. As for myself, I’ll be living it up in Thailand and banging tons of hot young Asian women (over 18, of course).

    Thank you ladies for liberating us men from your tyranny and becoming independent. Feminism was the greatest thing to ever happen to men. Feminism liberated MEN from being slaves to their ungrateful bitch wives.

    God bless you.

  22. @lifeofalovergirl – Yes you are right about Jesus saving a women from stoning, unfortunately this kind of thing did happen throughout history and is very narrow minded and barbaric I agree, but I am skeptical that stoning women to death was ever Christian law. The official version of the OT has been misinterpreted and deliberately distorted in places and the modern day Churches are a joke so it’s hard to know what Christianity endorsed, but I’d imagine Christians more likely to be white knight types who’s rush in to save a woman’s life who was about to be stoned to death.

    I have no doubt that the slut shaming part is accurate and was common. I suspect it would have been encouraged because women who sleep around a lot and have a lot of sexual partners had been observed to not bond as successfully in a long term monogamous relationship and a stable family life without cheating at some stage in her life and causing disruption within her family.

    If society’s accepting or endorsing of sluts causes social disharmony, disruption and chaos, it would be logical for a society that wished to reduce problems to attach negative social consequences to female promiscuity.

    The removal of slut shaming and other consequences for poor choices in society may also explain why the modern day marriage has become the disaster zone it is.

    Also when young women were married to “older men” it does not necessarily mean “old men”, if a woman marries young at 15 then a man 10 years her senior is 25, so not particularly “old”. I believe the acceptable age of a husband has varied quite a lot in different societies as it is not as important a factor. Not as far as biology is concerned anyway.

  23. I didn’t quite get through all the comments – but you mentioned something in the post that struck a cord with me (personally). My story is pretty typical – in that my marriage ended at 15 years – she was “unhappy” and felt “invisible” and didn’t even know if “she existed as a person” anymore.

    But for the first half of our marriage, we had the typical struggles, but we we overcame them and kept the “attraction” alive – but I also traveled and was gone for 4 or 5 days a week – out on Monday, back on either Thursday or Friday – and it always seemed like it was “fresh”. We had sex, we enjoyed each other, life was pretty good. Then (upon her urging) I figured out a way to make a living without traveling – and was home (literally working from home) all the time. In my mind, that was the beginning of the end.

    We never got a break from each other, she was a SAHM and now I was there every minute of every day, working (or trying to, since there were plenty of interruptions and towards the end, there were plenty of “discussions” while the kids were at school).

    So, that’s the 30K foot view of my situation – but I believe there needs to be some distance, something that keep the both of you engaged in the “marriage” but also provides some down time (at least for Men) from the everyday grind of it all.

  24. @DC: The only people who misinterpret the Old Testament are religious liberals who try to be decent people while hypocritically holding on to bronze age barbarism. Here’s what the Bible says about adultery:

    Leviticus 20:10: “If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”

    It took me 2 seconds of googling to find that verse. Also, female promiscuity may have “caused problems” in the past, due to a lack of birth control and paternity testing, but now that we have both of those things, it is slut shaming, monogamy, and the cult of virginity, that are causing problems.

  25. for the first half of our marriage, we had the typical struggles, but we we overcame them and kept the “attraction” alive – but I also traveled and was gone for 4 or 5 days a week – out on Monday, back on either Thursday or Friday – and it always seemed like it was “fresh”. We had sex, we enjoyed each other, life was pretty good. Then (upon her urging) I figured out a way to make a living without traveling – and was home (literally working from home) all the time. In my mind, that was the beginning of the end.

    And you were right. It probably was.

    I believe there needs to be some distance, something that keep the both of you engaged in the “marriage” but also provides some down time (at least for Men) from the everyday grind of it all.

    It’s the exact same reason why I think it’s a terrible idea when spouses work together or start businesses together. They spend all day together, then go home and spend all evening together, every day. I’ve worked with a few couples like this over my business career and I have never, ever seen it work. It’s non-stop drama and then, eventually, divorce.

    You’re absolutely right. Couples need big, regular breaks from each other. This is why the perfect “marriage” is one where you only see each other a few days a week, the other days you live somewhere else. (Though this would not be a “marriage” as traditionally defined of course.)

  26. About every 6 months (on average), my girlfriend tells me “You’re an asshole! You don’t do everything I want! This relationship is OVER!!…!!!” I reply, without any drama or rancor, that it’s understandable and since we’ve been together for a long time maybe it’s time for us both to move on. Then I proceed to go about my life.

    Some time between a week and 6 months later, SHE calls me, and with the drama now vented off, we continue business as usual. We don’t live together, and I see her a maximum of only once a week. I’ve come to the conclusion that she needs the drama of the “breakup” to let off steam, and I enjoy the hiatus very pleasantly pursuing my own interests – so both of us get something. And I am sure my obvious willingness to walk away at any time, with no emotion or drama on my part, is what keeps her coming back. Well, that and keeping myself a scarce commodity……

    I’m firmly convinced that this is why my LTR has lasted for 6 years. And I’m equally convinced that the problem with many marriages is not that the couples “grow apart” but that they spend too much time in close proximity to each other. Now, the woman will often complain that the guy doesn’t spend enough time with her – but if she gets what she wants, more time with him, she’ll be REALLY unhappy. On occasion, my gf has intimated we should move in together, etc. – and I shut her down by saying with perfect sincerity, “You know that would never work. You’d never be comfortable living with all my clutter.” I’ve seen her do a double-take and be completely at a loss for a response because, like 99.9% of women, her vision of domestic life assumes she has complete and absolute control of the household. Ha!

    But all of this points to my theory that if you must be in an LTR (and while I am in one, I by no means endorse it as the perfect type of relationship), couples should purposely schedule regular Relationship Vacations from each other, where they spend time doing their own things and give each other a break.

    Of course, that’s far too logical to catch on – almost like the truths BD reports above that many (most?) people already know but nobody dares utter in public.

  27. @Jack: if you think that “religious liberals” are the only ones who have an incentive to misinterpret the Old Testament then you seriously have much to learn about history and how the world really works.

    So birth rates across industrialized countries are at an all time low with a demographic winter on the horizon, while sexual immorality and social degeneracy are rapidly rising. Everything is fucked up, yet despite that traditional customs like the family unit, monogamy, slut shaming and the “cult of virginity” have been seriously degraded or eliminated completely they are “causing problems”.

    I totally see where you’re coming from.

    This idea is actually not new to the manosphere, Roissy/Heartiste has blogged about it as have others.

    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/why-sluts-make-bad-wives/

  28. John Doe: Your link just says that 29% of young men do not consider marriage to be one of the most important things in their life. Quite different than not being interested on it.

    I think it would be GREAT if suddenly a considerable percentage of men absolutely refused to get married under the current legal system. Then you would see things alimony and most laws regarding divorce getting better for men. But this is very, very far from happening. Most men still get married as soon as they believe their girlfriends will leave them if they don’t (losers) or as soon as they feel they have played in the field long enough and its time to settle down with some chick (players).

  29. Esther Perel wrote a book called Mating in captivity about a desire in LTR.

    Here is her TED talk which captures the essence of the book

    It is more complicated than women are wired to get bored. It also explains why BD system works.

    I strongly recommend to watch the video. Better than me writing a summary here.

  30. I watched the TED talk. I got very frustrated that she presents loads of evidence that open relationships are the way to go, yet she never comes out and actually says it!

  31. Exactly. Good video and I enjoyed it, but like the scientists in the above article, she just can’t bring herself to say it…

  32. You might re-title this entry, ‘The Pleasures of Limerence” or perhaps, ‘Why Alice should have stayed in Wonderland”. While I found the NYT’s article entertaining, you might gain insight into ‘The Magical Other’ here:

  33. Word is slowly spreading. Here’s a supporting article from a women’s magazine: http://www.marieclaire.com/fashion/who-needs-monogamy-love-sex-relationships
    I’ll quote the most relevant part of the article:

    “OK,” I reluctantly agreed. “I’ll try it [an open relationship].”

    So I was rather stunned when six months later I found myself in the most sexually and emotionally fulfilling period of my life. Just being with other men, without expectations for a “future,” worked. I saw Thomas every few weeks and dated lazily. It was surprisingly easy. I met two flings at parties and another on a writing assignment, and saw them whenever it made sense—sometimes a last-minute tryst, sometimes not for months. All three were outside my usual stable-life-partner type: One was an enchanting artist who was foreclosing on his house; another, a selfish guy who was a dependably great time; the third, an older kinky man who deliciously tied me up. Each dalliance had all the heat of a taboo affair, minus the burn of actual cheating. None would have happened had Thomas not been in the picture; it was the first time I’d stopped fixating on finding my one-and-only perfect soul mate.

    Read more: Non-Monogamous and Open Relationships – Love and Sex and Relationips – Marie Claire
    Follow us: @marieclaire on Twitter | MarieClaire on Facebook
    Visit us at MarieClaire.com”

  34. I have to echo what @yousowould said. I’ve been married for over 25 years and I get laid more than most single men. My wife reminds me when it has been 3 days since we last had sex. It’s her job to do so. I made it her job. You owe me one, she tells me. I miss you, she tells me.

    Here’s the thing: Most men let it slide when the wife doesn’t fuck them. Not me. I told my wife that if she doesn’t fuck me, somebody else will. I will be having sex with someone. It is her choice as to whether I’m fucking her or somebody else. I don’t care which one she picks. But if there’s no sex on the table then I don’t have any reason to stay married. It’s that simple. Getting married doesn’t mean you stop asserting your sexuality.

    Regardless of my case, I believe the story BD highlights is completely true in general. But with proper training by a husband who demands that his wife step up to the plate and deliver the sex that she promised can get laid regularly and without the drama. @YousoWould is right on track here.

  35. with proper training by a husband who demands that his wife step up to the plate and deliver the sex that she promised can get laid regularly and without the drama

    That will work with certain types of sexually submissive women. The problem is you don’t know if your woman is that type when you marry her. You have to guess and hope you were right. You happened to get lucky and guess right, and that’s great. But if you guess wrong…

    I’m also curious if you have been sexual with any other women during your 25 year marriage.

  36. @BD, Maybe I chose my wife well. She was a virgin when I met her. She has a fantastic career and makes 6 figures, but she is traditional at home.

    I have not had sex w/ anyone besides my wife in those 25 years. Why do you ask?

  37. So if I understand you correctly, you’re saying you married a virgin, have stayed married to her for 25 years, always get sex from her multiple times a week whenever you want even after 25 years, and she makes six figures, and she does whatever you want, and she’s never cheated on you in 25 years, and you’ve never cheated in 25 years.

    If that is all true, surely you understand (and I think you do, because you’ve already implied it) that A) you are easily in the 1% exception to the rule, and B) you were very, very lucky…it wasn’t (all) about your relationship skill. Because we’re talking about extreme luck here, there is no way you could sit down and teach men to replicate exactly what you now have.

  38. Maybe I have it much better than I expected. I did marry well. We dated for 4 years before I gave the commitment. It was easy to determine that she was truly a virgin.

    Aside from that I have worked very hard to instill an attitude in myself and my wife that I am entitled to sex by virtue of being married. This did not happen overnight, and we had fights about the priority of sex along the way. But over time I really did stay on message that I get laid or I leave. I also make sure she knows that I can flirt and get the attention of other women. Best way to do this is to flirt with older women. 45-55 years old. See it doesn’t matter how young or hot the women that my wife sees me flirting with are. What she sees is that I can pull the interest of other women. Even an ugly one is real enough to put things into perspective for her. That’s good enough to make my wife put the effort into fucking me (willingly) so I stay. I don’t think enough men do these behaviors.

    You may also be questioning if my wife is an ugly fat cow and I am a stud muffin. That is not the case on either front. She is pretty and proportionate and I am decidedly average if even that good. I am 5′ 8″ and weigh #145

    One other feature of marriage that gets overlooked by all the PUA bloggers, is that I don’t have to use condoms, ever. I may be fucking the same old pussy every day, but at least I’m fucking and feeling a woman’s insides, not some piece of latex. I have always hated using rubbers. That I can go in without a raincoat is a big deal in my book.

    I admire what you do BD. Your spinning plate method is powerful stuff. I just would argue that I am not some kind of black swan and that a man who works on leading his woman can have a good chance of avoiding what the article points out. You just have to make it to where it is in her best interest to continue to fuck you and to not get bored with it.

  39. This statement that “women get bored, men do not” is ridiculous. As a man, I get bored after about 3 weeks of monogamous sex LOL

  40. This statement that “women get bored, men do not” is ridiculous. As a man, I get bored after about 3 weeks of monogamous sex LOL.

    That’s why I have the word “usually” in there. You’re a Thrill of the Hunt guy, so you’d never get monogamously married in the first place, so you don’t apply to anything I talked about in the above article.

  41. Combine high T, proportionate other hormones, virgin bride and lots of sex early on. You’ve beaten the described above. Women’s sex drive adjusts to how often they get sex. The only way to override it is to boost testosterone and have more sex, which conditions her mind to want the sex and her body to need it. By keeping the other hormones proportionate and having lots of sex with a woman who’s a virgin you defeat the problems usually found in high T women. You also avoid the physical characteristics of being high T, as the balance seems more important to hair growth and body fat than the absolute content is.

    Funnily enough, the West is one of the only situations on Earth where under 25% of women engage in monogamy. Everywhere else there is a solid quarter of the population that partners once and stays with that partner until one of them dies. In the “purest” tribal situations, where partnerships exist, but are not enforced or where they mean devotion to children but not to each other, 25-66% of women will stay faithful to their first partner. The Hadza or the Montagnais are prime examples of societies that allow and embrace polygamy where a portion of the female population are monogamous through personal choice (30 and 65%, respectively). On the other hand, your estimated success rate of 13% suggests we are currently not far below the lower end of 25%. A monogamous person needs a monogamous partner to have a monogamous relationship. If 1/4 people are naturally drawn towards monogamy, then they have a 1/8 chance of finding another person like themselves. That means, all being random, around 12.5% of marriages will be between two people drawn to monogamy. The figures add up. We may be at the lower end, but the same way there is a core 5% of people who will be polygamous even in the face of death (men who snuck into kings’ harems in the East, for example), there appears to be a core 25% (higher among women, lower among men, but will add up to around 25%) who will be monogamous regardless of the forces of society. In simpler tribes this 25% may be more likely to hold down a partner, giving the illusion that monogamy rates are higher, but, in reality, it seems stable at 1/4 of the population.

    Interestingly, Western women are also more immature, emotionally unstable, prone to PMS and lethargic than non-Western women. All these things can be fixed by slightly boosting testosterone. People (of course) recommend a T pill, but all it really takes is lifting a few weights and keeping a body-fat-% of 20-25% so the aromatase keeps the estrogen in equilibrium.

    So low T plus polygamous society equals modern women being more polygamous than tribal women, and even so the core 25% remains fairly solid. The turned-polygamous ones are the 5-35% who would swing either way anyway, not the wholly monogamous ones.

  42. TL;DR: Female sexuality is nubile and mobile. Around 1/4 of people will be monogamous unless faced with death. I’d guess that the same 5% who seek polygamy in the face of death would hold true for monogamy, but there’s no stats available. But the other 75% are open to polygamy and a number within that 75% will seek it. Women can be conditioned to want more or less sex or to want different sex acts to those that would produce children. Therefore, 25% of the population will stay loyal and be happy, making their partner the determining factor and 5-35% of the female population can be encouraged to swing either way.

  43. Combine high T, proportionate other hormones, virgin bride and lots of sex early on. You’ve beaten the described above.

    Interesting, but that sounds extremely theoretical. If you can provide scientific evidence of many (as in thousands of) couples doing this successfully (that means the result was very frequent, horny sex for 10+ years in a 100% monogamous marriage), then I’d love to see it. But I have a feeling I won’t.

  44. @BlackDragon: We’ll see that sort of study cropping up when my generation realize they have become mindless animals who can’t behave themselves (in any area of their lives) for long enough to have and raise a child and it becomes a pressing medical concern. For now, if you want an overview, look into these, if for no other reason but interest:
    http://jonbarron.org/article/women-benefit-testosterone#.U334BSg3_h4
    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/apr2004_report_test_01.htm

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-increase-testosterone-naturally/#axzz32RylRxgH

    Still reading about sex, testosterone, fitness, childbirth and number of partners and stringing it together. The amount of variability is astounding; for example tribes who are both very physically and sexually active will have lower testosterone in areas where pathogens are highly prevalent, so I need to adjust for that. The details are pretty intricate, but it seems to hold true that a woman with high T will need more sex (sometimes more than their partner needs or wants, as healthy men want sex 2-4 times a week, whereas high T women can want sex that many times a day), but that this desire can be focused on any number of men dependent on her prior experiences and current situation. Hence why women like myself seem to be “ideal” to many, as we’re loyal but horny (in reality we’re only really suited to a small minority of men, but unless you’re interested, the ins and outs of that can get very long). For now, those links should at least be interesting.

  45. “Since most women don’t read scientific studies, divorce statistics, or blogs written by me.”

    Hi BD,

    I’m looking for any references containing empirical data that might support/contradict this — specifically about the ‘scientific studies’ and ‘divorce statistics’, I’ll trust yourself regarding your blog. 😉 I’m not having much luck either way initially. Do you have any supporting references for the above you might share?

    Thanks!

  46. superslaviswife – Those links are great, thanks. Extra testosterone may indeed help a woman’s declining sex drive in a monogamous marriage. However it would not prevent her from cheating on her husband, which is the other 50% of the problem. If anything, it may increase the odds of an affair on her part. Interesting stuff though.

  47. “Since most women don’t read scientific studies, divorce statistics, or blogs written by me.”

    Hi BD,

    I’m looking for any references containing empirical data that might support/contradict this

    Sure! Here you go:

    http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/09/where-are-the-women-in-economics.html
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/03/11/women_economics_majors_claudia_goldin_study_shows_women_leave_economics.html
    http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jul/11/women-know-less-politics-than-men-worldwide
    http://www.loreal.com/press-releases/women-science-less-than-1-researcher-in-3-is-a-woman-according-to-a-report-commissioned-by-the-loreal-foundation.aspx
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/magazine/why-are-there-still-so-few-women-in-science.html?_r=0

    I have more if I digged some more, but that should be good enough. To be fair, women actually read more than men…more fiction:

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14175229

    I’m not going to have a discussion about this, since you did the standard nitpicker tactic of pulling one largely irrelevant sentence you didn’t like out of that entire article that has little to do with my main point: That the vast majority of women get sexually bored with their male partners in long-term, live-in, monogamous relationships. If you’d like to dispute me on that, I’m happy to talk about that, not women’s reading or studying habits.

  48. Ah, but that’s where the virginity comes in. Oxytocin released during sex causes bonding. It is one of the heaviest releases of oxytocin a human can experience, only really rivaled by skin-to-skin contact between mother and child. If a woman has had no sex with anyone prior to her partner, she will bond to him more strongly than to any other person until she has a child and, even so, he will be a very high second rather than be delegated to the same level as other males. The more frequent the sex is and the longer the relationship lasts, the greater the boost is. Oxytocin causes dependence-based love, like a drug addiction. The woman will continually seek her next “high” in the form of affection and sex that boost her oxytocin, seratonin and dopamine levels. The more sex she has, the more her oxytocin boosts, the more sex she wants, the more she wants it with THAT man. More orgasms are also a factor, but not as much as total sex. Biological codependence, basically.

    Of course, this can be altered by heavy petting sessions with a number of previous partners, by an enforced withdrawal from sex, by her becoming irritable when her “dealer” is giving “HER drug” to another woman, or by her switching into “mother mode” and channeling the oxytocin more towards affection and less towards sex. Many, many variables.

    But, in principle, woman who leans towards monogamy + virginity + high T can override the cheating factors as well as the death of a sex drive. It can even in some rare cases cause a higher sex drive as well as higher loyalty, especially during ovulation, but this seems highly dependent on who the partner is.

  49. Thanks a heap for the response BD!

    “I’m not going to have a discussion about this, since you did the standard nitpicker tactic of pulling one largely irrelevant sentence you didn’t like out of that entire article that has little to do with my main point: That the vast majority of women get sexually bored with their male partners in long-term, live-in, monogamous relationships. If you’d like to dispute me on that, I’m happy to talk about that, not women’s reading or studying habits.”

    No, wouldn’t do that. My inquiry was on behalf of someone with whom I’d shared your article. (And since, shared many others. I’m workin’ for ya, man! haha)

    Interesting: she & I were discussing ‘monogamy’, I recalled this particular article, found the link and provided it to her. That was a month ago. She’s just re-replied (she’s still thinking evidently 🙂 the question so I thought, “let’s ask”. Just that easy. lol

    Thanks again, sir!

  50. How can this work if we are so possessive. I could pretend Id be okay with this open relationship thing, but as soon as I became aware that my other half was getting laid elsewhere with god knows who, who compares to me god knows how, id probably get a surge of rage and leave the relationship out of jelousy and spontaneous disgust. Also, if you dont settle down, who the HELL is going to be with you through your “golden years”? You wont have settled down, so you have NO FAMILY, no SPOUSE, just friends MAYBE who see you every now and then. When we get ever closer to not being completely SELF SUFFICIENT, Lust goes completely out the door. Who the FUCK cares about getting laid hen theres so many other things at stake, and so many OTHER important things that are just as valuable or more at hand?

  51. How can this work if we are so possessive. I could pretend Id be okay with this open relationship thing, but as soon as I became aware that my other half was getting laid elsewhere with god knows who, who compares to me god knows how, id probably get a surge of rage and leave the relationship out of jelousy and spontaneous disgust.

    Fine. Get cheated on and/or divorced then. The choice is yours.

    Also, if you dont settle down, who the HELL is going to be with you through your “golden years”?

    Read item number one in this post.

    When we get ever closer to not being completely SELF SUFFICIENT, Lust goes completely out the door.

    Maybe for you as a woman, especially a mono-married one. But not for a man. I know plenty of very horny old men, and I’m sure you do too.

  52. Glad to have the exception. Over 7 years and we still hump like rabbits. Just can’t let yourself become hers fully. You have to remain true to who you are and the moment you submit to what she wants completely you are no longer the person who peaked her interest. Once women feel they have you how they thought they wanted you, they no longer want you. There are ways to keep them on their toes and their interest flowing without being a complete Dick. The key is moderation like a backhanded compliment… ” Your dress looks great on you,..but I don’t know what you were thinking with those shoes.

  53. Hi Blackdragon!

    This is one of the most interesting, revealing and amazing article I have read in my life.

    I knew it! this was one of my theories, and also happened to me. Unfortunately not been able to contrast it with anyone, until now.

    First I had a MLTR from 4 girls, then i chose one to be my LTR, now we have 5 years together, and this boredom thing came to us, with 4 years and a half, and at that time we did’t know whats was goin on.

    I had the theory that it was something mental that happens to women after certain time in a long relationship, but i did not know the entire history… Until now.

    Now, I know a monogamous relationship will not work, so i need to figure out what kind of relationship is best for us…

  54. As with most of these articles, they are created by self-selecting group of people for the benefit of that same group of people, and that group of people do not consider themselves unusual so believe everybody should think like they do.

    Here’s a UK statistic: “60% of first marriages fail, and 50% of second marriages fail”.

    That sounds terrible, doesn’t it?

    But lets phrase it in a different way, without the “end of the world” spin put on it by a media eager to sell doom and controversy:

    “60% of people find true love at the first attempt, and of the 40% that don’t half will find true love at the second attempt. In all, 80% of people find true love in just 2 attempts”.

    Same statistic, but boy does it sound more positive! Fact is, those of us (yes, including me) that don’t manage to find true love are in an small group of just 20% of the population. We are unusual. We have no right to lecture to the majority. They are sorted, we are not.

    Here’s some statistical facts for you. All of these were discovered by scientists except number 4 :-

    1] Once highly promiscuous people are excluded, the average person has only 2 relationships before finding “the one”

    2] Women in their 20s have a sex drive estimated to be 50% lower than men of the same age

    3] 30% of women are not sufficiently sensitive to be able to enjoy sex

    4] Men enjoy sex 10 – 30 times more strongly than women (this is my own comparison which I base on the fact that women often compare sex to eating chocolate whilst many men will pay the equivalent of multiple bars of chocolate to obtain sex. If anybody knows of a better scientific comparison then let me know. It seems odd that nobody has tried to find a way of comparing sexual enjoyment between the genders.)

    5] Women’s sex drive declines from an already low level to zero by the age of about 50.

    6] Women’s sex drive declines with each child they have.

    7] Only 12% of women with very low or zero sex drive consider it to be a problem.

    8] The average rate at which people have sex is claimed to be 1x per week, but this is heavily skewed towards young people who are having sex 10x per week at the beginning of a relationship compared to those at age 50 likely not having sex at all.

    I think that this is enough to summarise thus: contrary to what Germain Greer wrote in “The Female Eunuch” women are not that interested in sex, and their interest in sex declines rapidly with age. You may be able to add some extra spice to a relationship to make the sex last longer, but it will come to an end eventually.

    Therefore, if you are a man and want to be in a very long-term relationship, you have the following options:-

    A] Accept that LTRs cannot be based on willing sex from your partner. Men mostly get used to living without sex from an early age. Most of us are not Brad Pitt. Is it normal for men to have sex very frequently? Probably not. This is obviously easier if the man has a lower sex drive. Most of the men writing here probably have a relatively high sex drive, hence the problem (supply is failing to meet demand) and for us this option is probably not going to work. I can tell you it works perfectly well for a lot of men, because sex is something that lasts maybe half an hour on average once a week – you still have to be happy together the other 168 hours – probably it is better to stop worrying about the half hour of sex and focus on being happy the other 168 hours. If a woman makes you happy the other 168 hours, she’s a keeper. I think the majority of men fall into this category – they are less interested in their sex lives and more interested in their wife’s other attributes.

    B] Have a relationship with someone that considers sex acts for their husband as a duty. Thai women, for instance, are raised in this belief. They may not have sex with their husbands as they grow older but often give hand relief or oral. The divorce rate of Thai brides is half the divorce rate of western women. Thai and Filipino women I have met tend to consider sex in the way they consider periods – as a kind of biological function like using the toilet. I do believe it is entirely unacceptable for a married woman not to give any kind of sexual relief to their husband. It only takes ten minutes effort, so failing to give oral or hand relief at least is extraordinarily selfish, but I suspect this is because Western women have been raised to believe they should want to have sex, and if they don’t want sex it is the man’s fault. It is not the man’s fault – women simply have lower sex drive and this is a scientific fact, there will always come a point where women won’t want sex at all and where the imbalance between the husband and wife’s sex drive is problematic.

    C] Have a relationship with someone that is OK about the relationship being open. Women are often more comfortable about their men discretely having sex with prostitutes than actual affairs. This was commonplace during Victorian times in the West.. In Japan wives do not have sex with their men except to have babies – recreational sex takes place only with hookers. The divorce rate in Japan is significantly lower than in the West. A woman that is openly asexual might actually be a good bet here, because she is more likely to accept your need for paid sex than those women that have a residual interest in sex.

    We have to re-learn that mammalian biology does not require active participation from the female for reproduction – female sex drive is not required, so it starts low and often non-existent. We have to re-learn that child birth requires a fit and healthy mother – so older women are not required to have sex, their sex drive gets turned to zero. Men are driven to have sex and thus reproduce at any age, but mostly they do not have the opportunity to have
    limitless sex so have to learn to live without it most of the time.

    If we work around these realities and discuss them openly we can all find happiness. As you say, we need to dispense with the Germaine Greer nonsense and the Disney romance BS that strangely the other primates can do without and still survive.

    Can you make your sex life last longer by doing new things? Yes, I have tried that and it does work, do it in public places, dress up, role play, read pornography etc. but your partner will get bored again soon enough. In the end it makes matters worse, because the hopelessness hits you hard once you have tried everything rather than realising the end of your sex life together has come and at least achieving acceptance of that.

    Do women really secretly want to have sex with other guys? No. But when they do it has the same effect as the previous paragraph. Something new for a while. They get bored with it pretty quickly and then the new relationship fails again.

    Does romance help? No. Romance is a substitute for sex. It is also a useful excuse for women to get themselves off the hook by saying “You’re not romantic enough” because women have been made to feel abnormal if they have lost interest in sex. Apes don’t need candle-lit dinners, and when you first met, a home delivered pizza was enough as a prelude to a night of hot sex (in any case, a bellyful of food makes you sleepy, not sexy). Sex is an animal
    function, so the more you move away from animal desires by intellectualising and creating fictitious desires, the bigger the problem will be. The first sexual experience I had was when I was a teenager. We just looked at each other and knew we were hot for each other, so we indulged in frottage behind the scout hut in our local park – no romance involved just animal urges. Romance can be a good replacement for sex, because it is about nice locations, good food, enjoyable conversations and companionship – it is a positive thing in its own right.

    Would it be better to have sex with a virgin? Maybe. Some women likely get bored even faster if they have had lots of adventurous sex early on in life, but at the same time that might indicate they have a higher sex drive in the first place, so it is a difficult play. But in the end the female ageing process is what kills our sex lives. Without medical intervention it is unstoppable. If we want to stay happy, we either accept it or find a way around it.

    Will we ever learn to be happy? Yes. Feminism is dying. It didn’t deliver. Women are unhappy, even more unhappy than men. 10% of people are on anti-depressants. We are looking for something better. The big problem here is women, because women are very much in touch with their highly complex and conflicting emotions, but rarely know what they mean. They like to feel their way through life, but struggle to make sense of it all. Women don’t know what they want. They believe important sounding women like Germaine Greer know what women want but only discover later it was all wrong. Men hate having feelings and try to suppress them, but they usually know why they have had those feelings. Men are easier to deal with, and we know what we want. We need to stop marrying women (putting ourselves at their legal mercy) and tell them outright what we want honestly instead of pussyfooting around and trying to
    pretend we are asexual romantics to suit them and lie our way into their lives. It is up to women to start delivering what we need, then we will be genuinely happy and that will make them happier. We need to understand what makes us different, unique, be open and honest about our uniqueness, then find someone compatible with our uniqueness because they have been open and honest about their uniqueness. Mostly we hid our uniqueness, present ourselves as what we perceive as mainstream as possible and talk about movies when we are dating – this is a recipe for disastrous relationships.

  55. “Women get bored, men do not”

    Seriously????

    If that were true, men wouldn’t cheat.

    Granted, some men do get bored. But men need variety. That has nothing to do with getting bored. When a man cheats on his partner he still wants to have sex with his partner, but this is not true of women when they get bored. They don’t want to have sex with him any more.

  56. I’d rather someone leave me as opposed to cheating on me because he needs “variety”. Men get bored and that’s why they seek variety. Some continue banging their wives but most don’t.

    Your model of poly life is interesting but I think from what I have seen men will still experience the same drama that comes with more than one lover because of a human emotion named jealous/possessiveness. I don’t even think it favours men because men hate drama. It would be better to leave relationships after the passion leaves i.e breakup and divorce. People have intense attraction for the first 2-3 years and then the lust tapers off. Mother nature wants short relationships as opposed to many simultaneously.

  57. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for finally having the guts to call it like it is. I have been saying this and feeling this for years! It was the reason I got a divorce. I finally realized there is nothing wrong with me sexually. Then I tried to blame it on him: pent up anger, he did this and that wrong but that didn’t feel right either because really he was fine. It just doesn’t fit with me. Now divorced, yes poorer, yes life if more difficult. But I am free and sexually alive! What a dilemma…lol

  58. Actually I get bored a lot.  Far faster than the chicks I date.  And, no, it’s not just yearning for variety, it’s boredom of banging the same p*ssy all the time.

    To say that women get bored and men don’t seems to be so far-fetched as to be laughable.  Honestly, what dude can bang the same aging p*ssy for 20, 30, 40 years?

  59. To say that women get bored and men don’t seems to be so far-fetched as to be laughable. 

    No one is saying that. Of course men can get bored too. The difference is that usually, and statistically, they don’t get bored as fast or as often.

  60. We all lose desire in someone after some time. If someone can still be really horny for someone after two years, hell, after one year even, after having sex all the time with them for that time, then I’d say that’s pretty rare.

  61. Inside the mind of a woman who was cheated on.  Yikes. :/  Monogamy turns love into an evil entity, IMO.  Still want to get married, Guys?  Is this really appealing to you?  The author essentially validates the “boredom” factor for monogamous women.  I got this gem from shesahomewrecker.com….

    “It’s getting to the point where I can’t even read those stupid personal ads anymore, not even for fun.
    They’re loaded with married people, bitching about their spouses, and looking for something “better”.
    I’ve got a few things to tell you:
    1. “She” is not the reason your marriage sucks. YOU are. If you spent half as much time paying attention to her as you do trolling CL for s****, your marriage would be a whole hell of a lot better.
    2. Yeah, yeah, we’ve all heard it a thousand times. You’re in a sexless marriage. First of all, that’s probably a lie, because most cheaters are liars too. I’m gonna let you in on a little secret, pal- if your wife isn’t interested in sex, it’s because you’re not offering sex that’s interesting. Married guys get awfully boring after a while. They do the same boring thing the same boring way every f****** time and they expect you to scream like a porn star. Seriously, you come home from work, totally ignore her while she chases the kids around for 4 hours, makes dinner, does the laundry, blah blah blah, and then you expect her to roll over with her legs open for another session of same-old same-old? When are you idiots going to learn that the best foreplay in the world for a woman is watching you take care of the kids, vacuum the floor, pick up the dog poo in the backyard. Or how about just listening when she talks? You know, it’s not that f****** hard to stop thinking about yourself for five minutes and hear what she has to say. Think about it- way back when, when you were getting your brains fucked out on a regular basis- what were YOU doing differently than you’re doing now? Planning dates, telling her she looked nice, acting like you’re happy to be with her? A thousand dollars says if you do that stuff again you’ll get the same result.
    3. Your kids are NOT the reason you’re staying married. If you were THAT miserable, you’d leave whether you had kids or not. If you’re not getting a divorce it’s because YOU DON’T WANT TO. For whatever reason. At least be honest and don’t try to feed people that tired bullshit line about staying married for the kids. Contrary to what you think, it doesn’t make you look like a poor suffering but honorable victim. You obviously don’t care enough about your kids to treat their mother with enough respect not to cheat on her, and you don’t care about them enough to spend time with THEM instead of some cheap w****, so cut it out with that crap. There is absolutely nothing honorable about putting your d*** ahead of your kids. If you really really cared about them, you would put ALL your time and effort and money into saving the one thing that means most to them in the whole world- your marriage and their family. Otherwise you’re full of s***.
    4. We all know how bored you are. Poor you, someone should really come along to entertain you. What are you, f****** 12 years old? If you’re bored with your marriage, it’s because YOU’RE BORING, and have you ever stopped to think that if you’re bored, she probably is too. But instead of throwing a temper tantrum like a 2 year old, she’s at home cleaning out the lint trap on the dryer and washing kool-aid off the kitchen floor. Yeah, she’s having a f****** riot washing your underwear and cleaning up cat puke. Marriage is hard work. Hell, life is hard work. Grow the f*** up and take some responsibility for yourself. You have a brain, USE it. Put some thought into your marriage and some effort into your life and stop blaming her and being a baby because life isn’t fun.
    5. You’re looking for someone “younger”. Sure you are. Dickhead. You think you look the same as you did when you got married? I’d bet not. Even if you do, you haven’t spent the last 10 years having babies (the ones YOU wanted) and sacrificing your body for them. The next time you have to have someone stitch your a****** together because your just pushed a watermelon out of your butt, then you can sqwauk. If you ever spend 9 months with your belly stretched to obscene proportions, and manage to look exactly the same as you used to 6 weeks later, then you can b**** about how she’s not attractive anymore. Until then, shut the f*** up. You have no concept of what she has sacrificed to give you the children you claim to love. You really think she wants varicose veins and stretch marks and saggy boobs? Get real. What she wants is a man who understands and values WHY she has varicose veins and stretch marks and saggy boobs. She wants a man who loves her because she was willing to make those sacrifices with her own body because she loves HIM. Instead, you criticize and go running off with the first perky 25 year old who gives you the time of day. a******.
    6. And finally, if you’re cheating on your wife, there’s something wrong with YOU. If you’re not happy with your marriage, exactly how do you think f****** some s*** is going to fix that? Exactly how is that going to make anyone happy? Have you ever actually heard of adultery working out really well for everyone involved? Are you actually stupid enough to think that you’re going to be the exception to that rule? If so, you are delusional and you need professional help. Affairs are disasters- not some of the time, not most of the time, ALL OF THE TIME. You guilt will drive you crazy. Someone WILL find out. You will NOT be able to keep up the lies and the deception. And it will all lead up to a disaster of epic proportions, which leads me to Lucky #7.
    7. Here’s what you can expect in the wake of your little f***-fest:
    Divorce- this is where you lose everything- your wife, your house, half your income and possessions, possibly your job if you’re stupid enough to be f****** around with a co-worker, your kids- EVERYTHING. You will LOSE IT ALL.
    Exposure- this is where everyone finds out what a scumbag you are. And they WILL find out. Your boss, your co-workers, your friends, your family, HER family, your neighbors, the parents of your kids’ friends, everyone at your church. They WILL find out. Why? Because your now ex-wife will tell them. She will probably tell everyone she knows, and everyone you know, and she will feel good doing it. Consider yourself lucky if she doesn’t rent a billboard. Otherwise, all bets are off. Be prepared.
    Your Kids- this is where you totally lose the respect of your kids, and you deserve to lose it. They will realize in pretty short order that you didn’t care enough about them to keep your f****** pants on. They will see their mother cry and they will hate you for it. They will end up shuttling back and forth between their home and your apartment, and they will hate you for it. Every time they have to tell someone that their parents are divorced, they will hate you for it. And God forbid you decide to “introduce” them to your shiny new soulmate/fuckbuddy, they will REALLY hate you for that. If your kids are really young, you have a little time before all this s*** hits the fan, but be warned, it’s coming. They will forever see you as the moron who broke up their family. They will know that you can’t be trusted, that you are weak and immoral and selfish. And they’ll figure it out all by themselves, even if you never talk to them about it. Because your kids are smarter than you are at this point.
    So, go ahead and whine your pathetic bullshit about how you’re a victim and your wife is a horrible shrew. Do your best to convince yourself that you didn’t have any choice and your wife “drove you to it.” Start with the rationalizations and justifications now, you’re going to need a lot of them. Remember that the best defense is a good offense and start a mental list of all the ways your wife is deficient. Make sure to re-write the history of your marriage so that you can say that you were miserable from the first day. Be sure to tell your wife that you love her, you’re just not “in love” with her anymore. Deal with your guilt by lashing out at everyone around you. Above all, take no responsibility for any problems YOU may have that caused you to be such a spineless bastard in the first place. Congratulations, you’ve just joined the Adulterers Club. See you in hell.”

  62. This is my favourite post of yours.

    Although that one about Mad Max Fury generating more business for you was Absolutely Fucking Hillarious, infact it may actually point to feminist warriors going on the warpath to generate income for their blog/books?

  63. I agree with much of what you state but disagree with your solution. At least as an only solution. A Michelle langley has Written a book about female infidelity and she speaks about women’s sexual cycle and how they will lose interest as a matter of biological programming. However she feels that the breakdown of relationships are not due to this process or enviable because its not the process itself but the lack of awareness of it in both genders that is the real cause. For example many men and women continue to believe that women are naturally monogamous so when a women loses interest she doesn’t read it as it is, but interprets that her husband is not ‘the one’. Many women and men also are unaware of the process of limerence and many women, once this wears off interpret this as a sign that her partner isn’t the ‘one’ . The woman then moves onto seeking ‘the one’ elsewhere and so on. However if both genders become aware of the biological process then they can and will anticipate the issues which will arise and develop more realistic strategies to cope. The women will develop an understanding of what is occurring and won’t compound it by misinterpreting its meaning. I believe that long term relationships are possible and go through many stages. Being aware of and, as it were managing the stages can lead to a long term bond where both partners remain conscious of and able to meet one another’s needs. Monogamy is difficult but not impossible.

  64. However if both genders become aware of the biological process then they can and will anticipate the issues which will arise and develop more realistic strategies to cope.

    Yeah, but they’ll still get divorced or cheat.

    If there was a proven and reliable set of techniques for making forever-monogamy work, someone would have already written that book and made a billion dollars selling it.

  65. Oh, I love this article. My sister sent it to me. Sad part about it though, is that I can’t send it to any of my other friends because they are all die hard marriage fans. They have to make that sacrifice do what it takes to make it work.

    I’m like You… We are definitely not suited for monogamy it’s that plain and simple. I know I have been monogamous one minute too long and I am chompin’ at the bit to get gone. *laughs* As a matter of fact me and husband were talking about how outdated marriage is just a few days ago.

    Furthermore, a few years back when I realized how I was feeling about sex with my long term partner and the time between each encounter got longer and longer,  I told him that he needed to find himself a lover.

    *looks disgusted sighing* Uhmm….he’s yet to do so nor has he actually made an effort. I think he’s hoping I’ll suddenly want it again, but I know I’m not I haven’t in over a year…his estimate not mine. *laughs all crazy*

    And you are also right when you say living together is the kiss of death for heat between the sheets. It’s a pattern I have noticed way back. Like I was told by one of my friends, that I couldn’t give up sex because I was married. Like my husband’s need for sex was more important than my happiness and well-being. Well, that cheesed me off but this is the information that is passed down generation after generation.

    Monogamy is work. Monogamy is as outdated as the rotary phone. When you have too many responsibilities together it is soooo much work. It sucks all the fun out of an otherwise hot relationship. It’s a trap, nothing good ever comes of it. And if anybody says they’ve been happily married for 20-30 years I know they are lying. Unless they’ve been secretly swinging in all that time.

    For those who come across this article at a later date my advice to you, If you want to keep your relationship hot and heavy maintain separate addresses don’t fall for that tired argument of saving money shit get a second job. And if anyone throws words like commitment phobic or issues at you, show them this article. Let’s start a movement. *laughs all crazy*

    Anyway, I’m going to bookmark this page because this is critical need to know information for all those who are slogging in the swamps in their Ferraris. Yeah, I know I said I couldn’t pass this on to my friends but I figure…If I save it, they will come…*laughs* Geez!!! No pun or pun intended. Thanks for listening.

    Pam:)

  66. That maybe the problem with women just in the western world. I don`t think if this problem exists in most of the Muslim world.

  67. That maybe the problem with women just in the western world. I don`t think if this problem exists in most of the Muslim world.

    Yes, this is a Western issue.

    Women in the Muslim world are forced (by government and religion) to stay with their man and put out whether they like it or not. I don’t like that either, but it’s a completely different scenario than in the West.

  68. There is a tried an tested method. It’s just as simple as this, if you really
    Love someone enough
    For long enough, it will work. That doesn’t mean it’s easy or that u don’t have to make sacrifices e g other relationships,
    It’s a matter of choice as much as a biological question. It is not inevitable that people will cheat. Maybe they will want to, but you can choose not to.
    Monogamy is not something which ‘happens’ it is made to happen.
    Not by force or feeling trapped (that’s not true monogamy) but by choice in spite of its challenges. Being aware of the challenges is vital in being able to make the choice and
    Many people are not monogamous because they don’t understand the challenges, not because of biology.

  69. I have a biological drive to eat. But I choose how much and what I eat. There’s nothing Inevitable about it.

  70. There is a tried an tested method. It’s just as simple as this, if you really Love someone enough For long enough, it will work.

    Utterly meaningless Disney.

    It is not inevitable that people will cheat.

    I’ve never said this. I’ve said that odds are overwhelming that you’ll either get divorced or one of you will eventually cheat, and the odds of one of these things eventually happening are sky-high regardless of how much you love each other today. And I’m right.

    I have a biological drive to eat. But I choose how much and what I eat.

    But you have constant variety in what you eat. This is not true with monogamy.

    Pretend you were forced to canned tuna and nothing else, every day, for 45 years straight…

  71. Most women are the biggest Cheaters nowadays which many of them Can’t stay with one man anymore since many of us men Can.

  72. I think it is this simple:

    if you are an awesome guy and always striving to be the best version of yourself women will dig you and you’ll have no shortage of girls after you, you’ll just ooze confidence and warmth that women can’t get enough of;
    Disney can happen and very often does. You can sleep with many women but still have deep feelings for just that one;
    It’s that one that will mould you, change you, mess you up like no other. If you aren’t good enough to keep her then you have two options: 1. you go out and hook up with any other girl to get her out of your system (which you probably never truly will, Disney, but at least you are getting regular sex right and your ego’s got its boost) 2. you withdraw, ask yourself what the hell is going on, how much does this girl mean to me, then you WORK your ass off to win her back or get her.
    BD, your approach to girls seems defeatist. You talk about a high divorce rate and have a very logical and intellectual approach to this stuff but that is all it is. It’s a well thought out, intellectual argument to support your decision or make excuses for not being with your Disney one.
    There’s only one Olympic Gold medal, the individual that works the hardest and has the luck gets it. Your approach is fine and works for you but I think it is very seductive to immature men (read immature not young, older men can also be immature).

    One day you will grow up and realise that this is just an excuse to sleep with multiple women and be lazy in that area. I’d choose one encounter with my Disney than 100s of encounters with other women. Maybe you haven’t found her yet, maybe you have but you need to get off your ass and get her. Maybe she is married to someone else? That would be tough but hey, she’s your one right?!

    If your girl leaves you, or causes drama in your relationship, it’s usually not just her desire to sleep with other men or biology. It’s caused by a drop in romance, no shared experiences, getting too comfortable, your fanning of your desire to sleep with other women. Monogamy is a real challenge and only the strongest most real dudes are able to make it happen and succeed at it. Sometimes the bullshit can get too much but quitters never win and winners never quit.

    Your approach is the lazy guys way and yes you might sleep with lots of women and have no dramas or issues with being cheated on or cheating but any guy can have that. To chose to keep your cock in your pants and not go on dates when asked out or not call that girl you know would sleep with you in a heartbeat takes true self-control.

    I think your way is the easy way out and nothing good comes from the easy option.

    What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger and for the guy who thinks everything is fine and his wife/girlfriend does cheat on him – he either improves and works at winning back her love or he always wears the badge of being the guy who was rejected. In my opinion nothing is more brutal on a guy than being cheated on. It makes us look like idiots (it has happened to me). It was hard. Very hard. But I learnt a lot about myself and what I needed to do to be a version of myself that my girl adored and now other women love. IT FORCED ME TO CHANGE FOR THE BETTER. Now she can’t get enough of me and we are so happy. Will it happen again? I’m willing to bet it might, I hope it won’t but if it does I will work on myself and change myself up, improve where I need to improve and win her back. Guys need to be the protectors of relationships.

    Letting women go is the easy option, Disney can happen but it takes a lot of hard work. Most guys just don’t have it in them.

  73. Disney can happen and very often does.

    No it doesn’t. Disney means (among other things) blissful lifetime monogamous marriage where neither partner ever cheats and both partners stay happy forever without divorce. Extremely, extremely rare.

    I’d choose one encounter with my Disney than 100s of encounters with other women.

    You’re posing only two ridiculous extremes as the only two options. There are many other options besides those two insane ones you just mentioned, one of which is near impossible and the other is not appealing at all.

    To chose to keep your cock in your pants and not go on dates when asked out or not call that girl you know would sleep with you in a heartbeat takes true self-control.

    And a high tolerance for consistent bouts of unhappiness. If you want to be unhappy a lot, go for it. I’ll be over here being consistently happy.

    I think your way is the easy way out and nothing good comes from the easy option.

    FB/MLTR/OLTR management is not easy at all. If it was, more men would be doing it.

    In my opinion nothing is more brutal on a guy than being cheated on. It makes us look like idiots (it has happened to me)  It was hard. Very hard.

    But wait a minute…I thought you were doing Disney?

    Wow, your way sounds really great! Where do I sign up?

    Will it happen again? I’m willing to bet it might,

    Which means Disney isn’t in the cards for you. As I said.

  74. It’s a lot harder to keep a woman who wants to sleep with other men and men want to sleep with her, monogamous.

    The easy option is to let her do it. If I was to be ok with my girlfriend doing it she would think I didn’t love her as much. If she is your “Disney princess” then why would you?! Any other girl, yes, there is no issue, losing them isn’t an issue. I think we definitely have different views, I’m not trying to change yours. Just adding to the discussion. I’m not into playing mind games with women, I’m direct.

    Disney is on the cards for me because I make it a priority and work towards it, just like anything in life. It may not work out but that’s no reason to give up on the idea. Over 20 years, 5 new girls a year (which is very low) = 100 different partners

    I like your theory but still think managing one is much harder than managing even 2. With one you have to deal with it immediately, with two or three there’s the option to let things simmer down but still be with someone else. So I agree with you, monogamy is tough and hard to do but I don’t agree with the part where you think the other relationships are better.

    I’ve always said to my Disney that if we don’t work out I’m never doing monogamy again, I’m going to have multiple partners. I’ll see how it goes, at the moment it is challenging but very rewarding being with the same girl, we’ve been together for 3 years and had issues. I put the effort in to make it work. Just like you put the effort in to make your relationships work.

  75. If I was to be ok with my girlfriend doing it she would think I didn’t love her as much.

    Then she needs to be educated as to how men work. Some women do think that initially, but once you show them it’s not true they come around.

    I’m not into playing mind games with women

    Neither am I.

    Disney is on the cards for me

    No it’s not. Unless you’re radically altering the definition of the word.

    I make it a priority and work towards it, just like anything in life.

    It doesn’t work that way because it’s reliant on another individual outside of yourself to behave the way you want for decades on end. Long-term Disney monogamy is not an individual-based goal like making $100,000 or winning the Olympics. Read item number 32 here. Frankly, you should read all the objections in that link too.

    “It’s going to work because I’m a hard-working guy and I’m going to make it work” doesn’t apply here. I’m one of the hardest-working, most motivated guys on Earth, and it won’t work for me (or you).

    You really need to get more educated on this topic before you put forth strong opinions about it.

    I’ll see how it goes

    I already know how it will go. She’s already cheated on you.

    I’ll be talking to you again in 2-5 years when you send me the “Yeah, you were right BD” messages I get so often, finally admiting that what you’re attempting isn’t possible for you (or her).

  76. I already know how it will go. She’s already cheated on you.

    I cheated on her too, but we keep on making it work. Cheating actually helped us because she got to experience that the grass isn’t exactly greener on the other side. I did too. It helped me get out of my comfort zone and made me realise that if I didn’t work on the relationship someone else would.

    I’ll be talking to you again in 2-5 years when you send me the “Yeah, you were right BD” messages I get so often, finally admiting that what you’re attempting isn’t possible for you (or her).

    If it doesn’t work out at least I gave it my best, I’d hate to lose my girl and know that I didn’t give it my best shot. I’m happy with what I am doing. If I do come around to your way of thinking I’ll post again letting you know you were right. Cheating can and often does happen in relationships (from both sides like in my case) it’s how you both respond to it and get past it that is important.

    Letting women go is the easy option, Disney can happen but it takes a lot of hard work. Most guys just don’t have it in them.

    I’ve said this before, I think that’s the real message I am trying to get across. With the number of beautiful, interesting, available women out there why would any man choose to be monogamous is what I keep asking myself. If I wasn’t already in a relationship and ‘in love’ with her, I wouldn’t be monogamous. I agree that there are plenty of other options for guys out there but there are many perks to monogamy that you can find yourself by googling them.

    Monogamy, is definitely possible. You probably haven’t found the person you are willing to try it properly for that’s all. It won’t work for you because it doesn’t suit you.

  77. I cheated on her too, but we keep on making it work. Cheating actually helped us because she got to experience that the grass isn’t exactly greener on the other side. I did too. It helped me get out of my comfort zone and made me realise that if I didn’t work on the relationship someone else would.

    Thank you for proving my point about how monogamy doesn’t work and how nonmonogamy is more realistic.

    If I do come around to your way of thinking I’ll post again letting you know you were right.

    I know. The odds are on my side. You’re trying to win the lottery.

    Cheating can and often does happen in relationships

    Correct. Monogamy doesn’t work.

    With the number of beautiful, interesting, available women out there why would any man choose to be monogamous is what I keep asking myself.

    Ooooohh yeah. I can already tell your days as a monogamous man are numbered, rending all this silly defending of monogamy useless. But you’ll see.

    there are many perks to monogamy that you can find yourself by googling them

    99% of which can be gleaned from a serious, discreet, pair-bonded OLTR.

    Monogamy, is definitely possible.

    For about three years, yes.

    This is my last response to you. You’re delusional right now, but I can tell reality will smack you in the face in a few years and you’ll come around.

    See you in a few years (or less…).

  78. Thank you for proving my point about how monogamy doesn’t work and how nonmonogamy is more realistic.

    The only point it proved was that monogamy is hard and requires work and effort. That why I shared that with you.

    This is my last response to you. You’re delusional right now, but I can tell reality will smack you in the face in a few years and you’ll come around.

    Yup, as expected, you’ve given up. Monogamy wouldn’t work for you, you’d quit too easily.

    Anyway for any of your readers interested in the other view read this, I feel it talks best about the highs of monogamous sex. http://www.andtheylivedhappilyeverafter.com/monogamy.html

    Ooooohh yeah. I can already tell your days as a monogamous man are numbered, rending all this silly defending of monogamy useless. But you’ll see.

    I’m trying to work out what I believe in, nothing wrong with that! Monogamy is much harder to do than concurrent dating of several women though.

    For about three years, yes.

    There are many couples out there that have been monogamous for much, much longer than this.

    You’re delusional right now, but I can tell reality will smack you in the face in a few years and you’ll come around.

    Or maybe you’re delusional and you will.

  79. “If I was to be ok with my girlfriend doing it she would think I didn’t love her as much.” I’ve been stumped by this counter-argument in the past when discussing open relationships. I tried to explain the O.B.W. & how love and sex are not mutually exclusive. How would you explain this to women who are used to jealous, needy & controlling men?

  80. “If I was to be ok with my girlfriend doing it she would think I didn’t love her as much.” I’ve been stumped by this counter-argument in the past when discussing open relationships.

    I can tell you from vast experience that most women don’t do this once they understand everything AND if you’re doing everything correctly. (That second part is critical.)

    There are indeed a few hopelessly needy women or hopelessly brainwashed women who will think this no matter what, but you would never upgrade such a woman to OLTR status if this was the case, so it isn’t relevant. You’d keep her at MLTR or FB level or dump her.

    How would you explain this to women who are used to jealous, needy & controlling men?

    You explain it one time, just once, follow all the correct relationship rules and be congruent, and then sit back and watch what she does. If still bitches about it, next her and go get some more women. Don’t try to change people.

  81. Every little detail of the above article is one hundred percent true. “Bored” doesn’t begin to describe it though. But thankfully, something “different” is like lifeblood. And It’s critical to human survival, at least for females.

  82. Women dont enjoy being with the same man, they enjoy being financially supported by one. Thats why women try to get child support and alimony. Since this means shes able to divorce a man and get the financial trappings without having to be with that man.

  83. well one thing you definitely proved and put to rest is the issue of men cheating on their wives… so is perfectly ok for a man to cheat… because unfortunately men become bored with their wives long before the three year time line you insinuate women take to get bored… so there should be no reason at all for women to get upset about their husband looking at their inadequate sexual abilities, performance, bodies, breasts, genitals, faces etc… the same things you seem to point out that are the reasons women after three years seem to want to cheat.. so neither male or females need to really worry about monogamy.. and based on your research and others its been proven that women are not able to keep up with or maintain their sexual prowess nearly as long or as well as men…see why men are still having sex in their eighties and women are totally happy with it because as the research suggests they no longer care for sex or the responsibility of maintaining their role, parts or bodies to successfully continue sexual activities… so you reinforce the fact as to why men leave their wives for younger women because their wives just don’t care or want to worry with it… satisfied with a romance novel that they live in their head because they aren’t strong enough or willing to do the things required to have that life for real… so… why get married at all.? and so a man could use your research and conclusion as a defense in a divorce hearing to argue that either she was not enough or that she would do the same after three years and so just divorce and head off the inevitable… brilliant hope you offer… then they just die alone after a very short sexual life expectancy because they didn’t base a relationship on more than just your reasons to cheat and the need for money and control.. because that’s what this is all based on anyway… it’s feminization and control…

  84. Can’t disagree with this article more. Women and I for 15 years. 11 and 9 year old kids at home. We fuck enthusiastically daily. Its all about frame. Dont wish it was easier, wish you were better. We have had boring spells sure. But that is my fault as a man. You gotta feed the hamster. Period! Actually the wife and I have just entefed a period of openness and honesty and we fuck even more. We have been fucking like we are 17 again. So much so that im only getting average nightly sleep of 3-4 hours. So Alpha the fuck fuck up and start acting like men. Take the world by the balls! Be thirsty! And theyll be begging for the cock. Figure it out!!!

  85. My wife was in her sister’s wedding party after we had been married for 7 years. She was in tne wedfing party limo on the way to the reception hall, after the church masd, where I was waiting for her. When the limo arrived at the reception hall, my wife’s female cousin came running up to me and said, “Your wife did something in that limo that I would consider to be grounds for divorce.”

    My wife over heard her saying this and ran up to me, “Don’t believe her, she’s just joking”.

    In any event, I corroborated thru others in the limo that my wife thought that one of the guys in the limo was “hot”. She had drank two glasses of wine and was feeling “frisky”, and she started flirting with him. Other women in the car, with the exception of her cousin, started egging her on, saying things like, “Go for it”, “Grab it”, “Take it out”, “Stroke it”, and apparently, according to EVERYONE in that limo, she finally pulled out his penis and jerked him off until he ejaculated.

    Surprisingly, I was not jealous then and I have never been.

    We have been married now for 34 years, and in addition to the “limo incident”, which she has never admitted to, I heard from 3rd parties that she had had two other sexual encounters with other men over those years. Whenever I try to discuss any of the three incidents with her, she gets very angry with me, and tells me that I am being “paranoid”.

    We have had four children, we love each other, and we have sex twice per week. I really can’t complain, and I have no desire to be with anybody but her. In the past she has said things like, “If you have sex with another woman, just don’t catch a disease and don’t tell me about it”, which I take to mean that she has given me tacit approval to have sex with someone else as long as I am discreet.

    I never have taken her up on that, even tough I have had opportunities to do so.

    Anybody see anything wrong here or is this just “boredom with monogomy”?

  86. Wonderfully written!

    Sadly, men in the world will have hard time accepting it. They would rather fool themselves.

  87. Interestingly, there are numerous other reports that perfectly dovetail with this one that state that swingers have happier, more satisfying relationships with their partners than monogamous couples.

    Particularly, in regards to women having access to other men (and often, women). That is the key. It’s the females having open sex even more than their male partners.

    I’m not a swinger and have no plans to become one but I am in one of those “boring” sexless long-term relationships.

    Maybe swingers and “hotwife” (look it up) couples have had it right all along.

  88. Maybe swingers and “hotwife” (look it up) couples have had it right all along.

    Not maybe. They are right. Anything is better than long-term monogamy.

  89. “But the fact is this: Human beings are scientifically (as a physician, I’m all about evidence) proven INCAPABLE of long-term monogamy. That is THE FACT.”

    Is the above statement still a fact if even one couple makes it through life monogamously successful? “INCAPABLE” implies that no human on earth could ever do it and i’d bet money that there are some (no matter how few) that have.

  90. I do feel bad for you though Blackdragon, as I read this story I could almost taste the pain that you’ve been through. You’re soul seems to have been fatally wounded long ago. I hope you will truly be free one day and not just think you are because you say it.

  91. I know it doesn’t matter to you that I’m, literally, the most consistently happy man I know (and I know literally hundreds of men), so much so that I write books on how to be happy. And I realize that personal attacks are your only option since you can’t respond to any of the actual points I made, because deep down you know I’m right.

    I wish you the best of luck in your current monogamous relationship (which I know you’re currently in, or else you’d be more objective about this). Later, when your man cheats on you, or when you cheat on him, or when you two break up or get divorced, go over to http://www.girls-with-game.com and they can help you repair your life.

    All the best, sweetie.

  92. I found your article and the responces very. Interesting. I feel you theory is correct. Men are sex machines and women are looking for relationships but lose interest after the three year mark. You miss one big option for men to enjoy their desire for nasty sex. For men to enjoy sex with each other. Being married over 25 years Our sex life got. Dull. I wanted mY wIfe. TO swing. And found the idea of my wife having sex with anoher guy exciting. Even though my wife admited she would like to see what it would be life to. Fuck other men she could not bring herself to do it. I was horner and unsatisfied so started looking for sexual thrills elswhere. Fear and guilt of bonding with another woman kept me from looking for pussy but my horneyness led me to adult theaters where I found lots of other married guys looking for something different. I started getting blowjobs from other husbands and found out men suck dicks a lot better than women. After a while a fellow husband convinced me to suck his dick. Sure I felt strange and guilty at first but afyr a while I realized how much fun it was having sex with other horney guys. Nasty sex is so hot.
    Now I still love fucking my wife but have the option of getting with another horney husband and satisfying our sex machine urger with no strings attached. Just saying in this more enlightened age guy “try it you will like it”

  93. You miss one big option for men to enjoy their desire for nasty sex. For men to enjoy sex with each other.

    If you’re gay, sure. But only about 3% of men are gay, so that’s not an option for most guys.

  94. LMAO Blackdragon doesn’t even go for bisexual girls & I assume threesomes (FFM), orgies. He’s quite a mainstream Polygamist from what I read.

  95. Hey BD,
    Stumbled on your blog a while ago(Forgotten how I landed here, maybe it’s just serendipity. Funny how this happens). Your ideas triggered some binge reading.
    A time will come in a man’s life when he’ll begin to think of children(it’s just biology, I’ve known that before I saw your blog. I have my dad to thank for that. Major player as a bachelor in the late 80s early 90s before settling down. My personal solution had always being to make enough money and marry as late as possible, without hurting the quality of women too).
    So I guess my question is: How would you approach relationships if you had to do it again, if you’re planning for kids in the future? What’s the arrangement going to be with the woman? From your articles, I know that you had your daughter from your marriage(correct me if I’m wrong, consumed a lot of your articles in a few days). Assuming BD had been alpha 2.0 since he was 20 years old(or 35, or from whatever age he began thinking about having children), how would he make the arrangement for future children while also making sure they are stable, well-centred and raised the best way possible which I think have involve both parties(the man and the woman), but heck, what do I know? I’m just 20.
    Thanks.

    P.S: Sorry for the long-winded comment. Love your other blogs too.

  96. How would you approach relationships if you had to do it again, if you’re planning for kids in the future? What’s the arrangement going to be with the woman?

    If you mean a serious relationship, exactly how I describe and OLTR or OLTR marriage. Read this.

    Assuming BD had been alpha 2.0 since he was 20 years old(or 35, or from whatever age he began thinking about having children), how would he make the arrangement for future children while also making sure they are stable, well-centred and raised the best way possible which I think have involve both parties(the man and the woman), but heck, what do I know?

    I would not have any kids until I was at least 40 and all of my big goals were accomplished. Then I would maybe have 1 or 2 kids and raise then exactly as described in the two chapters on parenting in my book.

  97. BULLSHIT. women get bored to men when men doesent have enough money to buy everything cool for women anymore. History proves that

  98. This is fascinating as is the conversation. I have always known monogamy isn’t for me. However, I am highly jealous and do not like to share, unless I’m involved. I have tried an poly relationship with another girl and one guy once, but it failed. he was only with us but we were both married (although I was divorcing mine) and running wild. She tried to edge me out, though, which actually pushed him toward me.

     

    I am looking for a unicorn of  a different color though. I am looking for semi closed polyandry or semi closed cuckoldry without the less than…sanitary bdsm elements.  I used to look for that, but in my old age ive decided some of the practices aren’t for me anymore and it is difficult to find someone who is into slut wives who isn’t into the whole humiliation, cum swapping aspect. What I mean by semi closed is that other women may be involved, occasionally, with my ok or involvement, but never an emotional connection, unless, which hasn’t happened yet, she manages to forge one with me.

    I am dating someone, who desires monogamy, so we compromised. I only have permission to sleep with friends he trusts. We will see how long that lasts, since only one of his friends have even talked to me, once, drunk and hasn’t called since.

    Also, my limit on being satisfied in monogamy is about 8 months.

     

  99. This is a very unrealistic question(bordering on fantasy),but if a beta(lets say the biggest supplicating pussy/coward you can imagine)were to win the “love lottery” and manages to marry his “perfect ideal” (Looks,personality,will never lose love/interest in him and everything else…),do you think even the beta would lose interest in her eventually in his lifetime? (of course,since he’s the biggest beta ever,lets assume he is incapable of getting another woman ever again)  Alpha males with options would obviously get bored sooner or later,but what about this sort of person?

  100. Not all betas get bored with their woman, correct.

    That’s irrelevant though, because if you’re a beta she’ll get eventually bored with you.

  101. What do you propose for men who want to have a family do BD?  I want 2 or 3 kids at least.  I’m over 40 but there’s a few younger women who are willing to hitch up.

  102. What do you propose for men who want to have a family do BD? I want 2 or 3 kids at least.

    You need to do some more reading on this blog, and possibly check out my books too. The summary answer to your question is get an OLTR, move in with her but do not legally marry her, write up a child custody plan, write up a co-habitation agreement, do a really good budget, and have your kids when you’re ready. Don’t assume the relationship the mother will last forever, because it probably won’t. Here’ a few articles to get you starteded: here, here, here, here, here, and here.

    I’m over 40 but there’s a few younger women who are willing to hitch up.

    I’m over 40 and I have younger women who love me and ask to marry me all the time, so you’re doing something wrong.

  103. Very interesting article. I certainly had a rush of thoughts come to mind about the point that women get bored after 3 years. I have found in my relationships, both parties have to agree on being generous lovers and not settling for mediocre intimacy. What I find with men as they get older is they should focus more on oral sexual pleasuring and fun like role playing. It brings a lot more erotic…playful…spontaneity to a love making session. Men forget women can have equally high a sex drive as they can…just like a relationship itself, one has to put some effort into the joy of sex in ones life. Men are not supposed to be. A machine nor women dick suckers on demand. What I see as boredom is lack of communication in what u want from the other in terms of pleasure and tenderness. Think outside the box as lovers. Monogamy is made to be a dirty word in this society like the word virginity. Its expected, we are all going to cheat…no one can successfuly enjoy a fufilling long term relationship being satisfied sexually and that we will all die sooner or later inside of sexual boredom and stray. I hope I am not one of them.

  104. Heydo, Blackey. First time listener. Long time caller. I mostly liked your article, but I have some notes. Cool? Well, you know what Jesus ‘says’; “Are yous guys even listening to anything i’ve said?!?! Mostly just do whatever you want, guys. For Gods sake though, quit being shitheads about it. It’s called comportment. Read a book.” (If you are curious about this quote, or enjoyed it, and want to find others like it check out the Nag Himadi.). I have problems communicating verbally, even in words that stay. So wait for it…..Wait! For. It…..NOTES!!!!

    Firstly, one can tell pretty quickly by reading this∆, Black dragon, that you are quite intelligent And analytical. Your highlighting the contrast between the biological stability of the carnal functions and the psychological repulsion (or at least apprehension) these ladies feel about using their healthy sex drives for the business with their long term spouse or committed partner? Brilliant observation, with far reaching relevance regarding human behaviour and it’s motivations. That being said, I find a similar asymetry in the revulsion(apprehension) folks feel when considering a poly or open-style solution to the “I just can’t stand the bastard anymore” conundrum. While you DID note the similarities these two situations share, I wonder why you seem to feel that overcoming and subduing the adrenal-fear respose associated with having multiple partners is preferable to, or indeed very different at all from overcoming the initial disinclination ( which i believe is also an adrenaline fear response, albeit an infantile and basic one) toward hubby junk in the first place. I am not saying you’re wrong, just having a healthy exchange of free ideas. Builds strong bones. I feel like you may have few-no
    advocates for the devils accessible to you for to sound board each others ideas… Art is conflict and all that… So yeah, that. Probs it’s a personal preference -shrug-

    This one is a little touchy maybe, but these are empirical observations not moral or emotuonal judgements. I’m just trying to help us grow. So•~• speaking as someone who has put my hand on a rock, looked at the sky and said “I am a psychologist.” Maybe a little FALSE modesty at least?? I totally believe that you had identified this pattern and some of its consequences and causes, but dude. Im just gonna say it cuz I think you can handle my imperfect, harsh, metaphor. You are the academic spouting your derisions of the polluted and trite publications(Edison) and sing-songing Tesla(your previous analysis) told you so. sorry. I actually love that delivery. Use it all the time. Everybody else says they. F@¢√•Π£ HATE IT!!
    So. Yeah.. Solid B+. Keep up the good work. Try not to pidgeon hole yourself by feeling too muc.h ways about stuff. Good journey.

  105. I wonder why you seem to feel that overcoming and subduing the adrenal-fear respose associated with having multiple partners is preferable to, or indeed very different at all from overcoming the initial disinclination ( which i believe is also an adrenaline fear response, albeit an infantile and basic one) toward hubby junk in the first place.

    Because the former results in long-term happiness and the latter does not. The former is also long-term sustainable, the latter is not.

    I feel like you may have few-no advocates for the devils accessible to you for to sound board each others ideas

    Are you kidding? I have people disagreeing with me and screaming about his stuff on almost a daily basis.

    You think I guy like me can proclaim to the world that long-term monogamy doesn’t work, and have everyone agree with me?

    Maybe a little FALSE modesty at least??

    No, I have no modesty. I’m an arrogant fuck and wear it as a badge of honor.

  106. Man, did this topic go sideways. I’ll say this, you have a couple chicks come to the party, and those beta’s crawl out of the woodwork.

  107. I’m a married woman of 4 years and have read through the whole article. So that’s it? There’s no fixing the “meh” in the bedroom? I’m just hard wired to get bored? I don’t wanna give up my marriage I love my husband but I totally agree (cringe) with this article. I’m BORED. But according to this article my only recourse is to get a new husband/boyfriend? Divorce or cheat? Those are my only options?!

  108. Divorce or cheat? Those are my only options?!

    Or turn you traditional marriage into an open marriage. The clearly stated point of the article is that long-term sexual monogamy doesn’t work, so the alternatives are nonmonogamy through cheating (not good), short term monogamy (better, but high drama), and honest nonmonogamy (much better). Maybe BD will give you a link to some advice on how to open a marriage.

  109. Yeah, cheat, divorce, or convert to an open marriage are your only options (besides “trying to fix it” which is unlikely to work). I have a book about the open marriage option here, though it’s written for men.

  110. Women could always try just growing up, that may help. A female senior staff member stated to other females in the room “that men after the age of 30 have the maturity of an 18 year old girl for the rest of their life”

    She said this after she told two late 20 something ladies that not having your feet rubbed would be taken care of by an “older” man. The 20+ pair were complaining about lack of TLC by hubby, and BF, (both at the 4 to 5 year relationship mark).

    I could not help but confront the senior female( 40 something) politely saying, “You really think that I have the maturity level of an 18 year old girl” I stated to her that at 53, and looking mature, and acting that way did she really believe that.  She replied “well no”, and I smiled.

    The point here is that the “older man” was the RIGHT answer. I would have rubbed both their feet, and they were 4s at best, but I would have.

    Then to say older men lack maturity “beyond an 18 year old girl” was wrong, even by her own statement about an “older man”, which was correct. I do realize there is immaturity at all ages, in both sexes, but when talking about Alpha males the topic changes. The one trait of an Alpha 2 is maturity, and that does attract women, because they don’t see it in it’s purest form.

    The banter about Biblical standards is leaving out one fact. Multiple wives were common place until later in man’s history. Having wives that rotated sexual service, and therefore looked forward to time with the patriarchal husband. Also, the male lived a separate life from the females, often out in the fields for days, or weeks, which created time apart, and heightened attraction.  All this with the added attraction of enemies that could, and would reduce captured wives to sex slaves, and children to pets. The patriarchal man was older, considered wiser, and a protector that was respected by the whole camp. This made marriage to him a real advantage, and desire of the women. Polygamy was practiced until men became lazy beta’s, and the the practice was ended.

    Now a man of maturity looks at polygamy, and scoffs at the idea of multiple, whining, complaining, suffocating wives. Women have traded patriarchal maturity for betaization , but long for the patriarch today.  Society has changed, but the Alpha male remains, he is just harder to find

  111. men after the age of 30 have the maturity of an 18 year old girl for the rest of their life

    Nowadays, that isn’t far from the truth. More and more dudes get butthurt over things they really shouldn’t be getting butthurt about. And no, this isn’t from some weird “demasculinaztion of society! hurr hurr” nonsense, its just that we have too many choices about how to live so naturally, we are all gonna pick the path of least resistance.

    Women could always try just growing up, that may help.

    Buddy. You are asking for WAY too much. Chicks don’t know how to be mature. Especially in this day and age where they can (almost) literally get away with assault and murder. They’ve been offered the path of least resistance for millennia (not just since the women’s movement) and they are beginning to realize it now. Good for them. If I was one of them I would do the same.

    Maturity is becoming more and more of a choice and less and less thrust upon us. The paradox here is that those who bitch about it are being immature themselves. The most sensible thing you can do is laugh about it which is what I do.

  112. Unfortunately my husband would never be ok with an open marriage. Unless of course it was only open for him. But that’s typical

  113. Unfortunately my husband would never be ok with an open marriage. Unless of course it was only open for him.

    Yeah, then someday soon (if he’s under the age of 60) you’ll find he’s cheated on you. (If he hasn’t already.)

    The point is you’re unlikely to be sexually monogamous either way. You can be adult about it (open marriage) or you can be secretive about it (cheating). The choice is yours.

  114. Just for the record my husband an I are heavy equipment operators. He insists I work on his job sites and harasses his bosses till he gets me on his job. We are literally together 24/7. We have been together for 6 years 24/7. For you to assume he will or has cheated on me made me laugh, hard. Lol. If he managed to find the time to have an affair it will be the quickest quickie in the history of the entire world. Ignorance truly IS bliss, isn’t it Lmbo

  115. You’re the one who is bored; it may be you who cheats. Or who divorces him eventually. You’re headed for either an affair (your or him) or a divorce if you’re sexually bored and refuse to try an open marriage. But hey, its your life.

  116. I know you said that. You could convert to an open marriage if you demanded it. If you said “open marriage with ground rules or I’m outta here,” and you really meant it, he’d be be furious but he’d agree, especially if he’s needy enough to be with you 24/7.

  117. I suppose you’re entitled to your opinions regardless of how uneducated they are and I also suppose it’s unsporting of me to continue to mock you when you clearly have no clue you’re being mocked.
    I think making a blanket statement encompassing ALL women into a pigeon hole saying we’re ALL just hard wired this way is ignorant. Because you have had this experience with the women you have been with does not mean ALL women act/think like this. I would think the logical explanation is that maybe you’re just not that good at it, or maybe you don’t have enough below deck and women get bored with you. Sometimes women are too embarrassed/ashamed to say out loud what they want or like. Some women may just not know their own body well enough to know what the want or like. The fact of the matter is there are millions of people happily married for decades upon decades that aren’t bored with their sex life.
    Maybe read some books about it, watch some movies, brush up on your skills or lack there of in general.

  118. BD, I think more people cheat or get divorced because of relationship issues arising from their lack of relationship capabilities and skills (incl. the understanding of oneself and empathy for the other) than as a result of sexual boredom – while of course that will still be number 1 factor in many cases. At least most relationship breakups I have witnessed or participated in occured before sexual boredom could set in and/or for  obvious reasons unrelated to sex.

    I do not have statistics to back my opinion up, but as far as I know neither have you (i.e. back up for the assertion that people cheat or get divorced primarily because of sexual boredom). Or do you?

     

  119. I suppose you’re entitled to your opinions regardless of how uneducated they are and I also suppose it’s unsporting of me to continue to mock you when you clearly have no clue you’re being mocked.

    Yes. Clearly I’m a complete idiot, with no data to support his claims, who’s just making stuff up. I’m sure your marriage where you’re bored with your hyper-needy husband will be perfectly fine forever.

    I think making a blanket statement encompassing ALL women into a pigeon hole saying we’re ALL just hard wired this way is ignorant.

    I never said all. I said the vast majority. Using the exception to the rule to back up a point you’re making just proves my point for me.

    The fact of the matter is there are millions of people happily married for decades upon decades that aren’t bored with their sex life.

    Correct. As a percentage, these people are a very tiny exception to the rule.

    BD, I think more people cheat or get divorced because of relationship issues arising from their lack of relationship capabilities and skills (incl. the understanding of oneself and empathy for the other) than as a result of sexual boredom

    No, the primary reason is biology, not boredom, and not relationship skill. Human beings aren’t wired for long-term sexual monogamy and never have been. Pair bonding, yes. Sexual monogamy, no.

    I do not have statistics to back my opinion up, but as far as I know neither have you (i.e. back up for the assertion that people cheat or get divorced primarily because of sexual boredom). Or do you?

    I’ve never made that assertion. I’ve said that the vast majority of human beings, men and women both, eventually either cheat or breakup/divorce. There are various reasons for this, the largest being biology, but boredom is another one, plus there are many others. I agree with you in that I don’t think boredom is the number one reason for divorce (though it may be for cheating), but that it is one very common reason among many common reasons.

  120. As a woman, I concur that women easily get board in monogamous relationships. Though I’m a life-long bisexual, I primarily date men. When I do date women the relationships are always short lived because I cannot stand female drama. With men, I tend to get caught up in long-term monogamous relationships. After the first 2 years I become increasingly sexually unsatisfied. I start fantasizing about other people more and more, especially other women. I’ve struggled with that, questioning if maybe I’m more of a lesbian than I realize. But when I really stop and analyze myself, I realize that I am no more inclined to women than to men. I’m just bored. Nearly all of my long-term monogamous relationships with men have ended after a long period of no sex. And I must say, it was myself who ended the relationships, never the men. Because I am a level headed and honest person all of my former male lovers have remained friends. The women, not so much. After a break from the relationship the men typically try to re-engage a sexual connection. I have only revisited sexual encounters with one of my exes. The reason being that I feel we are sexual soul mates of sorts. He really understands my body and what makes me tick. Ours was one of only a few relationships that didn’t end over sexual complacency. We were together for 3 years and continued to sleep together for another year after breaking up.

  121. I would like to pose a question for all. How powerful is female submission in a relationship?

    I mean it at it’s full capacity, not just in the bedroom. A woman that lives in a submissive state with her man, to whatever capacity?

  122. I would like to pose a question for all. How powerful is female submission in a relationship?

    I mean it at it’s full capacity, not just in the bedroom. A woman that lives in a submissive state with her man, to whatever capacity?

    If she truly wants to do it and it makes her happy to do it (a more submissive personality), then it’s wonderful and she should do it.

    If she’s the typical woman and doesn’t really want to do it, but feels pressured or forced to do it by her male partner, the relationship will either not work (breakup or divorce) or it will continue in a high-drama, unhappy state (for both parties).

  123. @Ed – it will extend an exclusive relationship in my experience. But only to a point. If permanent exclusivity is the goal, be prepared to employ, out of necessity, Athol-Kay style extreme mate guarding where you assume the added occupation of PI (Gee, doesn’t that sound fun?). The only thing to stop a submissive woman from eventually submitting to another man is either your constant presence with her (she virtually never leaves your side), or there is the threat that you will be physically violent with her, the OM, or all of the above.

    You put a submissive woman in a sex-positive western cultural environment, she will succumb. The capacity for submission to a particular man, in all aspects of a relationship, is limited/finite/eventually doomed.

    Or you can move with her to a Saudi Arabia-style autocratic hellhole where the punishment for cheating would be too high.

    There is a direct correlation between incidence of cheating and pervasive threat of physically violent consequences in a particular culture/society.

    So from this perspective you could argue that she’s not really submitting to you especially, it’s simply who she is and you’re more interchangeable Alpha cog than Uniquely Alpha Special Snowflake Guy. That’s how I saw myself, and it definitely bruised my ego all the more in the long run.

  124. Well the reason I ask, (and thank you BD), was the comment made by MK. She in IMO is a borderline submissive woman, who almost gets the power of it. I put the statement forward just to stir the idea that came to my mind with MK’s comment, that the pure submissiveness of a woman is a very intoxicating attraction to any male.

    I know of a lover in my past life that was just that, a submissive powerhouse that left me powerless in the moment. I ended the relationship out of fear I would fall into a helpless state with her, and to live with her would have been to ruin the attraction, which was intoxicating, or put me into a quasi daze that I had never been in before. I say all this with regret, because she remains the center of my fantasies, and I question my decision to leave her, often.

    Why even bring this up? I believe that women have given up the most powerful tool they possess. Pure feminine submissiveness is provocative power no longer appreciated by women, and rarely seen by men. I have read that Japanese women practice feminine weakness as a strength, and the writer I recall was taken aback by the feeling that they were proud of their feminine frailty, and were not offended to be submissive. Maybe BD sees it different now, or never. This writer saw it as provocative as a male in their presence, and wrote it was not the reason of his trip there, but felt compelled to write about it.

    I feel women use submissiveness as a stunt, to get their way, but never study the possibility of living your life that way. I believe they would be happier in that lifestyle. Would it change monogamy? Doubtful, but would make it more possible.

  125. Ive been with my Wife for 15yrs.  During that time many things have changed..Social attitudes, Clothing styles, Cars, etc…  But the One Constant is People. We all want to be wanted and Need to be needed.  My Wife and i have a give and take system that we actually Post on one of those erasable marker Boards. Sounds goofy i know, but works like a Charm. She writes down what she needs and expects from me and on what days or nights…and i do the same.  That way we have time to do our own thing and have time to plan for each other. There is never an excuse as to why we cannot acommodate each other.  Over the years my hairline has receded and my wife has put on 25 lbs. She teases me about how she remembers my Penis being bigger and wants to know what i did with the other half!  I tease her when i say that her Ass has more dimples than a golf ball! And we LAUGH cause’ we Love the shit out of each other and dont allow ourselves to be complacent or BORED!     We have Sex 2 times a week…1 time is what she likes and wants, next time is all me.  And to keep things fresh…Once a month she goes to the Mall to shop and do her thing. And i meet her there wherever she is whether it be the nail salon or a clothing store. And we pretend to Not know each other and i begin to flirt and hit on her. She tells me she’s Married and i persist(as the cashiers think they are watching an affair in the making lol) We walk through the Mall until she tells me she has to get Home…I ask to walk her to her Car and help with any packages and she says yes, but be a Gentleman.  We get to the car and i hand her bags and what have you..and then i pull her into me from behind and touch her breasts…she says how wrong it is…then we get in the Car and i Fuck my Wife in the back seat with her dress up around her waist..and panties around her ankles..until We climax.  Then i Leave her there a heaving mess in the back seat.  Later on when she comes home to me, she pretends nothing ever happened…as if it were truly someone else that Fucked her and she is keeping a secret from me. Keeps me Horny…her happy…and us together!

  126. I have to say i see a lot of truth to this ,but i have to assume it has more to do with western culture and some European countries , most of your Asians and Mexicans from foreign countries who decend to American culture dont seem to have that problem, Most of their men dont even cater to their wives at all its the other way around and you couldnt pry their wives away from their husbands , The U.S. family courts and television has a big influence on how women behave ,women today are taught and brainwashed that they are entitled to have anything and do whatever makes them happy ,
    so of course while their friends are out after a divorce and have grandparents and sitters or ex (Dad) watching the kids , their friends are partying it up like the t.v.series The Bad Girls Club etc. getting hit on by all diff. men skys the limit,luxuries thrown their way,told how sexy and beatiful they are,dinners at exspensive places , when a good ole stay home wifey and mother hears and sees all what her friends are up to and getting,then the hard working loyal Father (Husband) gets looked at like a piece of shit who trapped his wife with his off spring and is holding her back from getting everything she could of out of life,thats where the promblem starts , next thing is internet where always some horny single freaks trying to meassage these women constantly telling them everything they wanna hear, yea if she starts to get a little bored whats gonna hold her back morals, NOT A CHANCE ! Then when the husband senses somethings a miss or not right he tries to intervene or go out of his way to make her more happier by then its to late , she got a taste and planning the Harriet Tubman monuver , to rid any guilt or shame the husband is labeled and slandered ,somehow he becomes an abuser,a loser etc….some mothers even go so far as to try to say they touch their own children inappropriately anything to cover up all their shit and come out looking clean,courts and lawyers no this ,their no dumbies, but family courts a billion dollar industry is not gonna go to MORALS over Money.
    Bottom Line as long as females get rewarded for their premiscuise and greedy behaviors the more their gonna do it.

  127. I just want to say I do agree with the artical but My wife and I have been married for 7 years and still have sex almost every day and sometimes more than once a day! Her attacking me LOL!!! So why? I don’t really know other than I let her be as free and sexual as she wants with me! I let her be fun I let her explore her self any way she wants! I have told her many times if she ever has the itch to try another man she can she just needs to be fair and tell me and she know I really don’t care and would let her!!! But her response is always why would I want that when you make me feel amazing when ever I want! And I just say I know but I just want us to be able to be honest and open with each other!! So maybe you can explain why we are extreamly happy with just each other sexually!!???

  128. I just want to say I do agree with the artical but My wife and I have been married for 7 years and still have sex almost every day and sometimes more than once a day! Her attacking me LOL!!! So why?

    Either it’s because you two have an open / semi-open marriage, or it’s because she’s one of the rare exceptions to the rule and you got lucky.

    If you are monogamous, the fact you don’t know why this is happening shows that it’s not happening because of any specific technique you’re using or have used in the past. You just got lucky, which is great! My overall point here is:

    1. There are rare, lucky exceptions to every rule.

    2. Others can’t emulate luck. There is no technique or set of techniques that will reliably replicate your conditions.

  129. I disagree with your entire blog. I know several women who have been monogamous with their men for more than ten years without an issue. What it basically comes down to is when you don’t try new things in bed, they get bored. Want to ease boredom? Try opening up to kink, try asking yourself what she’s into now that she wasn’t into. the “rare lucky exceptions” are a lot more common than you ever think.  What’s ironic is a good percentage of the world is dissatisfied with their relationships. But do you have any idea why that is? Maybe it has nothing to do with attraction, maybe it has to do with working full time or the stress of money or the stress of family. Lets also not forget the fact that most people don’t communicate in their relationships, which is why so many of them fail.

  130. I disagree with your entire blog.

    Is it the statistics you disagree with? Or the science? Or the researchers?

    Not sure how you can “disagree” with facts.

    What it basically comes down to is when you don’t try new things in bed, they get bored. Want to ease boredom? Try opening up to kink, try asking yourself what she’s into now that she wasn’t into.

    Incorrect. If kink or “trying new things in bed” was the cure to people cheating and/or getting divorced, the divorce rate and cheating rate would be a tiny fraction of what they currently are.

    the “rare lucky exceptions” are a lot more common than you ever think.

    Not according to the facts and stats. Read about the divorce rates here and the cheating rates here and the number of people dissatisfied in their monogamous relationships here, all three of which are currently at all-time historic levels, and which represent the vast majority of human beings who attempt monogamy.

    What’s ironic is a good percentage of the world is dissatisfied with their relationships. But do you have any idea why that is?

    Yes. Because human beings where never designed to be sexually monogamous to just one partner for longer than about three years. Humans are pair-bonding creatures, but they are not sexually monogamous creatures.

  131. BD…

    Where to begin. 40ish female here, married monogamous for 15 yrs.

    I have struggled with jealousy issues for much of the marriage. About a year ago, my husband told me that he wanted to open our relationship softly and together after 4 or 5 bouts of me freaking out and acting like a child and telling him I was bored, and wanted him to leave. I really do not deserve him. He came to me and said instead of cheating let’s be honest. I flipped!!!!

    Over the past year I have waxed and waned about this and read, and cried, and lost my mind that my husband admitted to me that he wanted to have sex with others but not leave me. I came upon your stuff, and I have so much clarity! I want to thank you!!!! (I’m sure my husband does too!)

    After a year of freaking out thinking my marriage was over and he didn’t any longer want me, and crying like a baby, I grew the eff up, and looked at the data. The facts don’t lie.

    We love each other and know we are not getting out of this if we aren’t honest about what we deep down want. Wanting to be happy instead of controlling another person is the issue. Control and comfortability kills passion and desire.

    Thanks for all you are doing on this. Without your blog I never would have been able to put this in perspective.

    Xoxo

  132. Wow, great stuff Light. I’m proud of you.

    And yes, you made the classic feminine mistake of assuming that just because your husband or boyfriend wants to have meaningless sex with other people, he therefore doesn’t love you or doesn’t want to be with you. Wrong! He does! He loves you a hell of a lot! That’s obvious, or else he wouldn’t have bothered to tell you! He loves you and wants to be with you forever AND he’s a man with male biology that can’t be denied. One has nothing to do with the other.

    Well done.

  133. Kudos to Light.

    BD, I agree with the premise that women get bored on or before the three year point. My question is what is the evolutionary basis for this? Assuming there is one to two year old child as a result of the relationship, wouldn’t it be in the mother and child’s best interests to have the boredom kick in later, say perhaps the “seven year itch” mark, where the child can run from predators, etc., and be otherwise more viable? I can see the boredom as a prompt for sexual diversity, but the three year cutoff seems too soon. Thoughts?

    PS Love the blog and the book. You’re a voice of reason in the wilderness.

  134. BD, I agree with the premise that women get bored on or before the three year point. My question is what is the evolutionary basis for this? Assuming there is one to two year old child as a result of the relationship, wouldn’t it be in the mother and child’s best interests to have the boredom kick in later, say perhaps the “seven year itch” mark, where the child can run from predators, etc., and be otherwise more viable?

    Good point. That is beyond my scientific knowledge to answer.

  135. Further proof:

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/314181.php

    “Of the functions examined, women’s ability to orgasm was the most stable over the 7-year period, while sexual satisfaction was the most variable.

    The ability to have an orgasm improved across all groups during the study, with single women experiencing the greatest improvement.

    Women with a new partner had a slightly lower improvement in orgasmic ability than single women, but a higher improvement than women who had been in the same relationship over the 7-year period.

    The study found that women who had stayed in the same monogamous relationship over the entire 7-year observation period experienced the greatest decrease in sexual desire.

    By contrast, women who had found a new partner over the study duration experienced lower decreases in sexual desire.

    Women who were single at the end of the observation period reported stable sexual desire.”

    NB: There’s nothing physically wrong with the long term monogamous women – they’re having orgasms more easily after 7 years, but they simply don’t fancy their partners as much (if at all).

  136. There isn’t a hard and fast rule here. My wife and I have been together 13 years and we still have sex three times a week. She initiates about half the time also. In fact we have more sex now than we did when we were younger. Our relationship is monogamous so I never have to worry about STDs. We are the exception to the norm though. We are career driven, maintain seperate finances, and will never have children. Also we reject the traditional roles in marriage and make our relationship as we please. So a woman can indeed maintain desire for her partner in a long term monogamous relationship. At least in my own experience.

  137. There isn’t a hard and fast rule here….We are the exception to the norm though.

    Pointing out the exception to the rule as your only argument proves my argument.

  138. I offer a third option. It is a specialized therapy for the female in your situation. There are some sexual aspects to it, of course, but totally above board and most of my patients find it helpful. We explore regressive memories while the woman is stimulated sexually. This stimulation is completely optional, and can take any form the patient is comfortable with. Most patients eventually migrate towards oral stimulation. Upon reaching climax, some find a resolution totheir internal dilemmas comes of it’s own accord after several weeks. I do house calls, but please discuss any course of action with your spouse beforehand.

  139. Hi BD —

    Read your entire article, and every one of the responses previous to this one.  While you appear on the surface to take a logical and rational approach to this discussion, you throw away all of your credibility and relevance by asserting such a closed-minded reaction to responses that are rationally and thoughtfully written.  You tend to sound like a spoiled boy when people disagree with your position, “I’m right, you’re wrong, if you don’t believe me, you’re a dumba$$!”.  There are plenty of counters to each of your points, many of which have been highlighted by coherent replies here. You seem to ignore, largely, the reality of variability among human beings.  Yes, you say that there are exceptions to every rule, but put it into a context that implies only a tiny percentage of people are the exception.  The spectrum of human personalities is much more broad and evenly distributed than you give credit, I think.

    One of the most telling things you said was that you’re proudly an arrogant bastard, and wear it like a badge.  This is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a trait that should be considered by a mature and secure man, as one which deserves praise or pride.  Arrogance comes from a place of weakness, and the need to project a higher value of yourself in the interest of external validation. This mindset will certainly stunt your growth.

    In summary, thank you for sharing your opinions, many of which are rational and thought provoking.  On the other hand, take your head out of your own a$$, and realize that your world view, while it may be working for you, is not any more “correct” than the world view of others.  If you’re here to talk shop, then talk shop, don’t attempt to force your opinions on other people who clearly have a different set of experiences than you.  You would do well to try to understand their viewpoint, rather than immediately believe it is invalid, because you already have all the answers.  (I agree strongly with the poster who mentioned, empathetically, that he believed you have suffered some serious pain in your life, to whom you angrily tried to shoot down with ad hominem).

    Cheers.

  140. You tend to sound like a spoiled boy when people disagree with your position

    As I’ve said many times, and you’re proving it once again, if I make a point, and back that point with facts, science, and statistics, and your only response is to quickly change the subject to me, by personally attacking me or attempting psychoanalyze me, that tells everyone that you have no point to make in response to what I said. This simply further bolsters my point.

    In other words, people like you help prove my points for me. (So thank you!)

    It may surprise you to learn that in your entire comment, you only made one actual point in regards to the topic here. I will respond to it:

    you say that there are exceptions to every rule, but put it into a context that implies only a tiny percentage of people are the exception

    The exception to the rule is, by definition, a small percentage. Regardless of it’s 3% or 13% of people who can make forever monogamy work, it’s still a small percentage of the population.

    If it was instead something like 40%, then you could tell me I’m wrong, but it isn’t, so you can’t.

  141. Hi Dude — a few things:

    1)  The fact that I stated what I saw as the most glaring problem with your writing does not mean that I have no point to make in response to what you said.  That’s what we call a logical fallacy.  On the contrary, I made exactly the point I was intending to — to give you perspective on your overall viewpoint.  I have many opinions on your topic, most of which were already covered by above commenters, and see no need to repeat them.

    2)  Your entire original post was anecdotal.  What facts, science, and statistics do you have for us (corroborated by real studies!), other than some copy / pastes of individual life stories?  Would love to see a valid study showing that only 3-13% (or whatever # you’d like to claim) of people successfully live out lives of monogamy.

    3)  You attempt to correlate sexual boredom with lifelong monogamy, as though this is some great surprise, and then attempt to use this non-revelation as a means to justify your personal opinions about monogamy.  Name to me one task or activity or commitment that doesn’t get boring after huge amounts of repetition.  The only ones I can think of are the ones that people genuinely love.  It’s the job of the two partners to keep things interesting.  This is achievable (not easy… achievable) given the right two people, with committed and unrelenting mindsets, and genuine love.  I’ve seen it, and so have you.

    3)  You claim to be Mr. Alpha.  True alphas surely make up a small percentage of the population, right?  I would argue that a “Disney” outcome is the best possible outcome in relationships, despite it happening infrequently.  Would you agree, or disagree, that meeting one woman who blows your fcking mind, and staying with her for the rest of your life in a fulfilling and satisfying way, sounds most appealing?

    Why, then, as a top-few-percenter, are you willing to settle for such a mundane existence as flipping through women endlessly with no end-game?  I view myself as a top-few-percenter as well, but unlike you, I believe that this entitles me to a high-quality lifelong outcome, and this is what I seek.

    (For the record, I see this as completely subjective.  This is what makes sense to me, as a man who has witnessed first-hand countless successful marriages, and the benefits they bring (which are worth the occasional discomfort).  It appeals to me the most.  Ask any 18 year old, and their perfect outcome would likely be “BANG HOT BABES UNTIL I’M 90!”  The whole point is that everyone is going to have different goals with regard to relationships — yours is not better or worse than any others; just more suitable for you.)

    4)  The above were not personal attacks.  I’m not into that kind of thing.  This is constructive criticism, based on what I read.  Fact:  your credibility became blurred to me the further I went.  I genuinely believe you could benefit from the feedback.  Take it or leave it.  But, I understand your business model here.  You probably sense the truth in what I’m saying, but are pragmatically not going to relent on your one-sided stance in the interest of retaining your dedicated following.  Unfortunately, some will be able to see through that quite easily.  But, this comes with the territory, no doubt : )

    Good luck!

  142. Your entire original post was anecdotal.

    Then you didn’t read it. It was a link to, and quotes from, a scientific study profiled by the New York Times. Maybe you should scroll to the top of this page and read it.

    What facts, science, and statistics do you have for us (corroborated by real studies!), other than some copy / pastes of individual life stories?  Would love to see a valid study showing that only 3-13% (or whatever # you’d like to claim) of people successfully live out lives of monogamy.

    Really? You’ve got to be kidding. Okay…

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2014/07/13/divorce-statistics/

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2016/08/15/often-people-cheat-real-stats/

    http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/11/16/what-life-long-marriage-really-looks-like/

    http://www.blackdragonsystem.com/uploads/3/9/7/2/3972480/why_long_term_monogamy_doesnt_work.pdf

    …just to link to a few of the articles where many of my sources are gathered. There are many other such articles on this blog. Feel free to look through the archive for more.

    Name to me one task or activity or commitment that doesn’t get boring after huge amounts of repetition.

    Fucking multiple women, with occasional new ones added to the mix.

    This is achievable (not easy… achievable) given the right two people, with committed and unrelenting mindsets, and genuine love.  I’ve seen it, and so have you.

    I never said lifetime monogamy was impossible. Just very unlikely even if you do everything right.

    Would you agree, or disagree, that meeting one woman who blows your fcking mind, and staying with her for the rest of your life in a fulfilling and satisfying way, sounds most appealing?

    If she stayed with me forever AND never got bored with me forever AND never stopped having frequent sex with me forever AND rarely gave me drama forever AND she never got fat, AND I never wanted to fuck anyone else forever, then yeah, that’d be great.

    Odds of this actually occurring in today’s real world? Possible, but minuscule.

    Why, then, as a top-few-percenter, are you willing to settle for such a mundane existence as flipping through women endlessly with no end-game?

    I have an end game: a long-term OLTR marriage.

    “BANG HOT BABES UNTIL I’M 90!”

    This is not what I advocate. Read items 8 and 12 here.

    The above were not personal attacks.  I’m not into that kind of thing.

    To quote you:

    “You tend to sound like a spoiled boy”

    “take your head out of your own a$$”

    Sounds like you’re into that kind of thing quite a bit.

    You probably sense the truth in what I’m saying

    There is not one shred of truth in anything you’ve said. You just said I don’t point to any stats or scientific studies to back up what I say (obviously wrong), that all of my evidence is anecdotal (obviously wrong), that I have no endgame (obviously wrong), and that I advocate banging massive amounts of hot chicks until you’re 90 (obviously wrong). Because of your defensiveness regarding monogamy, you have mischaracterized every one of my views you’ve commented on.

    Well done. You’re not having a good day today.

  143. Hello Blackdragon, thanks for putting this post. It’s definitely a HUGE issue and nearly no one knows how to fix it. I agree the monogamy issues happens with both Men and Women for their own different reasons, but I believe that the problem is in the mind programming and resistance to change. Here is a few points that I think is the real root of the issue and the way to the solution:

    THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS:
    In order for the monogamous family lifestyle to work, both Man and Woman have to accept and work on change their Values and Purpose of Life. It’s it simply a different phase and a completely different game. Only by elevating yourself spiritually that the couple and the family will survive the temptations of the seductive single and freedom lifestyle.

    1-Since early age we are exposed to sexual attraction and we all go through the party lifestyle where we are trained to be single.
    2- we all resist changes since is painful (but necessary) so at an adult age and specially if we can pay our own bills, we feel that we can no longer change, because there is real need for it.
    3- Society should value Family above it all, but that doesn’t happen probably because of what we value the most is having Fun and the persuit of happiness.
    4- we don’t put God first, and we pose connection with unconditional love
    5- We don’t know how to deal with “our dark side” which is more seductive but not sustainable, like eating sugar.
    6- When we make happiness and fun the purpose of our lives we will run into exactly what’s happening, because definitely nothing can compare to that New Relationship feeling where the couple don’t really know each other
    7- the purpose of life is Growth, but that is not as excited as having Fun. GROWTH is almost the opposite of fun as it it’s very painful
    8- we grow up in a society that values having fun 20x more then growth, no wonder we have so much trouble in the world
    9- I don’t know if the Devil really exist, but if it does he is laughing at our ignorance about the purpose of life, because Fun is like sugar, it’s a treat that shouldn’t be eaten on a constant basis, because it’s not sustainable
    Solution: Humanity needs to Grow up and value growth above it all as the purpose of Life and embrace pain as necessary for change. We are taught to run away from pain or go get distracted instead of accept that pain is necessary. The only solution is to put the spiritual needs in first rather the physical needs.

    But hey, at the same time I know this issue is REAL and will may never END as we are doomed as species if we don’t turn to God and listen to our Hearts instead our Ego.

    By the way I feel very sorry for this is destroying lots and lots of family and perpetuating the cycle through our children growing up again with a bad mind programming. And I feel very sorry for all men and women that wants to live the true Family Lifestyle and their partners are not ready to Grow and Change.

    Once again Thank you man

  144. Great article that I wish I had read 25-years ago.  Married 29 years and had dealt with the ‘infrequent sex’ issue for 25 of those years.  I get it now.

    She had affairs.  I was oblivious.  Caught on because she was sloppy.  I guess she just got used to getting away with it.  I read Langley’s book; Living In Limbo, and it all came together for me. Stupid, stupid, stupid.  Major head slap.

    In the movie ‘As Good As It Gets’, one of the characters, who is a successful writer of romance novels, is asked, ‘How are you, as a male, able to write female characters so well?  His response is; ‘I think about a man and then I subtract reason and accountability’.

    Could not have said it better myself.  I was married for 29-years.  Do I regret them?  No.  Most of them were good.  What I didn’t know, I didn’t know.  In retrospect I feel more than a little stupid but there’s no taking away from the joy I experienced; Naive or not.  I’m 64-years old now.  Living in the NOW.  Today I’m in Quito, Ecuador.  Tomorrow I’m going to the coast for a couple of weeks and then to Eastern Europe for dinner in Kiev with a woman I know there.

    I have no com[plaints.

  145. “Living Apart Together” by Anne L. Watson… A book which details another practical solution to the problems of monogamy and those of “sharing an address.”

    I was recently talking with a woman who lived half of a mile away from her “husband” for the past 24 years (he in an apartment, her in her own house)… She said she could not recommend this type of arrangement more highly, even if it would save them some money living together, and that she is very happy…

    I know I was much more wildly crazy for my girlfriend of a while back when she lived 20 minutes away than when she moved in…things rapidly deteriorated from there (she was a classic dominant who felt the extreme need to make rules and take over everything, which I wouldn’t put up with).

  146. It seems the # 1 reason that most women give me as to why they want to be Mono is STDs.

    Boy, if there was some kind of way to prevent this issue from coming up, they really be in trouble then.

    Do you have any studies that show how this could be flawed thinking as well?

    Here is what I mean:

    Say I were to date lady # 1 forever (OLTR)
    Then, say that I was allowed to have 1 on the side and her too and we had open communication about this.
    Or we had threesomes together

    VS

    How it is done today:

    We are mono for 6 months to 3 years and find a new mate
    Cheat on each other and not know with how many etc

    Couldn’t the case be made that it is SAFER to do scenario # 1 above than it is trying to be mono and in the dark?

    Do you guys feel that women just use the STD deal as the #1 excuse or reason as to why they require monogamy?   She says that if we are not exclusive than we would need to wear protection again and if we do that then sex isn’t as enjoyable and she wants my cum inside her.  Craves it.

    So I’m like WTF.  UGH.

    What do you guys say to this?

     

  147. Couldn’t the case be made that it is SAFER to do scenario # 1 above than it is trying to be mono and in the dark?

    Of course it is. Thats the whole point. It is beyond me that people dont have a problem with past relationship and many short term relations and having simultaneous is bad all of a sudden.

    Do you guys feel that women just use the STD deal as the #1 excuse or reason as to why they require monogamy?

    Exactly, she doesn’t know what else to say and thinks this is convincing. I had a girl who was mentioning this but she stayed with me and she was even more excited to have sex with me than before so clearly it didnt trouble her so much, though she would refuse to take off the condom, which is very fair.

  148. I am a mother of 4, I am married to my high school sweetheart, been together 23 yrs and have lived together for 17. We always had a good sex life until about 2015 our sex got less, 2016 a little less, and at the beginning of 2017 we went over a month without sex and I finally realized something was wrong. When we would have sex we’d question why aren’t we doing this more. I watched porn more and more as the years went by, multiple times a day and we had sex less and less. We also got along less and fought more and the more we fought the more I watched porn. I didn’t noticed the connection until 2017, when we went without sex for over a month. When I told him I had a problem with porn he was surprised, me opening up to him helped me realize I needed to quit porn. I quit, it is still a stuggle, he still watches it but I understand he has to want to quit. We have amazing sex now at least once a day, it’s been about 8 months now. I never grew bored with my husband, porn just distracted us. If your bored do something to make it interesting, try something you enjoy. If you are waiting for him to surprise you you’re going to get bored waiting. Women like to be wanted sexually, but if a he is getting his needs met, like through endless porn, he stops trying. It goes both ways, with porn it’s always there, you don’t have to look good or worry about pleasing someone else. Women get bored because men quit trying. But that’s no excuse.

  149. And in one fell swoop, you completely disregard the ability of strong masculine dominance and game to keep the interest of a woman over the course of many years. Ask any of my ex-girlfriends whom I went out with for more than 3 years if they ever got tired of sex with me. Ask any of the happy wives of prominent manosphere married writers if they are bored with sex with their husbands.
    As far as I am concerned, if a woman becomes bored of sex with her partner, then the fault lies with you, as a man. These studies are based upon average couples, with average blue pill men, who have no idea that the behaviours that they are exhibiting – that they have been programmed to by society – are in fact turning their women off them.

    No.

    Alphas go through the same cycle. I have even seen monogamously married women cheat on their alpha AND handsome husbands with mild-looking betas.

    Every woman gets bored with every man. This doesn’t mean she leaves him: there may be several other, exploitative reasons why she sticks with him (several ways in which he can keep being useful for her, differently worded) .

    If anything, alphas will have to stomach being accused and described as obnoxious for EXACTLY the same characteristics that made them liked in the NRE phase. Which is mind-twisting.
    ****
    This is an amazingly educational blog post BD, and I wonder how it would affect society if such knowledge were made mainstream.
    Would it ameliorate relationships and relations and people’s psychological health?
    If so, why it’s so strictly kept out of the mainstream? Maybe it would make things worse. Societies self-regulate pretty effectively as to what they choose to acknowledge and what to pretend they are ignorant of.

  150. Women require you to lie. Tell her you want 3 girlfriends who pretty much only see you for sex, and she will hate you…though this is what makes everyone the happiest. Not emotional dependency and attachment. Not all this ego game people engage in simply to get an orgasm.

  151. Women require you to lie.

    Incorrect, obviously women don’t require you to lie and would respect you more if you were honest. You shouldn’t be lying to women!! Blackdragon’s philosophy is to be honest. He see’s several FB‘s and I don’t hate him.  You really are going about this all wrong. Please read Blackdragon’s blogs, you might learn a few things about honesty and you might find things will turn around for you in the woman department.

    Good luck~

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