Get Free Email Updates!
Join us for FREE to get instant email updates!
-By Caleb Jones
There are great things about dating younger women, and very bad things. There are great things about dating older women, and very bad things. Today I will examine both in detail.
First, as always, we need to get our definitions straight. What exactly does “older” or “younger” mean?
Longtime readers know that in general, I separate the “older” vs. “younger” at age 33. As I’ve discussed many times here, when a woman crosses over age 33 (if not sooner), her ASD spikes into the stratosphere and her entire attitude about dating, men, and sex changes forever. Things that used to be enjoyable to her, like sex on the first or second date, or very casual sexual relationships, are now suddenly horrible and largely unacceptable.
That doesn’t mean dating women over 33 is 100% bad. In this article and this one I discuss the good things about dating women over 33 and how to navigate some of the problems they present.
“Younger” women, therefore, are women age 32 and under. A third category, Very Young Women or VYW are women under the age of 23. For purposes of this article, when I say “younger,” I’m talking about women age 18-32, and when I say “older,” I’m talking about women 33+, unless otherwise stated. It’s true there are several subcategories within these two broad groups, but I already covered them here.
Older vs. Younger Overview
Before I get into this, remember that everything I’m saying here is a generalization. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. There are some very independent, organized, responsible, mature 18 year-old girls, and there are some very low-ASD 38 year-olds who will bang you on the first date within an hour or two of meeting you with no resistance at all. Yeah, yeah. Doesn’t matter. In both cases, these women are unusual exceptions to the rule. They actually prove the rule. I am not interested in discussing the unusual exceptions to the rule (other than acknowledging that they do indeed exist) and I will ignore any comments complaining that I’m generalizing (because I am) and that there are rare, unusual exceptions out there (duh, I know).
Alrightee. Everything I say is within the context of the fast sex dating model I practice and teach, which is represented here (click to zoom):
In this model, there are three separate phases: the pickup phase (getting a woman to agree to meet with you one-on-one), the dating phase (getting to sex as fast as possible, ideally on the second date/meet within 3-4 hours of total face time), and the relationship management phase (ongoing sex via a casual or serious relationship, either of which are nonmonogamous).
Generally speaking, younger women are much easier in the pickup/dating phases, but tend to be harder and more work long-term in the relationship phase. The younger they are, the more these are both true. In other words, a 18 year-old is going to be very easy during pickup/dating phase and an absolute cluster fuck during the long-term relationship phase, whereas a 28 year-old is going to be less easy during pickup/dating and less difficult during the relationship phase.
Older women tend to be the exact opposite. They are absolute nightmares in the pickup/dating phases, but if you are somehow able to persevere, put up with all the ASD, bullshit, woman logic, and ridiculous demands (and in the case of the fast sex model, get very lucky with sex that occurs relatively quickly), then ongoing relationships tend to be easier and more reliable with these women.
The problem is the words fast sex. I personally don’t like waiting more than two or three dates with zero sex, since I don’t see the point, and there are too many pretty women in the world who are perfectly happy having sex on date two. If you feel the same way as I do, most relationships you’ll have will be with younger women (under age 33 or so) simply because most women over 33 won’t ever get to the point of having a relationship you, because they'll insist on making you wait too long for sex, causing you to next them and go have sex with the 26 year-old around the corner who won't make you wait.
Of course you could follow a more traditional, beta male type of dating, where you have five or more dates before you have sex (ugh, kill me), and thus get more relationships with older women, but getting to sex slowly like that isn’t what this blog or my books are about.
Other Pro’s and Con’s
With all that being said, here are a list of other pro’s and con’s. They are listed in no particular order.
1. Reliability and Scheduling - Older women win here. In terms of keeping a reliable schedule for meets and dates, younger women are difficult, and VYW are extremely difficult. Older women, even those who are single mothers, tend to be more reliable and less flaky. Granted, all women are flakey to some degree (it’s core part of being female), but the flaky factor drops significantly when a women gets over age 30 and again when she gets over age 35. VYW are a lot of fun, but god damn, the constant flaking, forgetting, rescheduling, emergencies and cancelling gets extremely irritating, particularly when you’re a busy guy juggling work, family, multiple women, Mission, etc.
2. Easy Compliance - Younger women win here, big time. Younger women are far more likely to go along with any agenda you set for them than older women, who tend to be strongly opinionated and set in their ways. (Older men are the same, by the way, including me.) As always, the younger the woman, the more compliant she tends to be (though there are certainly exceptions, particularly in the sugar daddy world).
3. Drama - Older women win here; not by much, but they do. Women over 33 indeed tend to be less drama overall in ongoing relationships. I’m not saying older women are zero drama, or even low drama. (All women are drama to some degree.) I’m saying that they tend to have less drama than younger women, who are usually more touchy, whiny, bitchy, and/or complain about stupid shit more often.
There are two reasons for this. Younger women tend to be more connected with the fact that they’re young and hot, therefore subconsciously think they can throw more drama and crap at a man, which he'll put up with. Also, younger men tend to put up with WAY more drama than older guys, and since younger women are more accustomed to younger men, they’re more acclimated to higher-drama relationships.
4. Quality of Sex - I’m going to surprise many people here, and piss off a lot of women, since Societal Programming says that older women are better in bed. It’s true that older women are more comfortable and understanding of their own bodies during sex than younger women, but are they better in bed than younger women?
All I can go from is my own experience, as well as the experience of the men I’ve communicated about this topic over many years. I’ve slept with a lot of older women and younger women, and I have to say that in general (and again, there are many exceptions), younger women tend to be better in bed.
I’m sorry, but it’s true. During sex, younger women tend to be more excited, enthusiastic, willing to try new things, willing to follow instructions, and are way less picky. There’s a light and eagerness in younger women’s eyes during sex that frankly, most older women don’t have. Many women in their 30's have had much of that "light" burned out of them by stressful kids, numerous failed relationships, financial pressures, and all kinds of other baggage. (Celebrity example: Britney Spears. Hit up YouTube, watch a few interviews of her when she was 19, then watch a few of her today. The first woman will be bubbly, enthusiastic and excited. The second woman is robotic with dead eyes.)
You could argue that some younger women are faking this enthusiasm during sex, and maybe under certain scenarios they are, but that reinforces my point; it shows they care more about your experience than an older woman who refuses to show any enthusiasm, fake or otherwise.
It’s true that older women tend to orgasm easier during sex since they know their own bodies, and that many younger women either can’t cum at all or take a very long time to do so. It’s also true that there are some older women who will absolutely blow your mind and body during sex. Yet overall, I have to say that younger women tend to be better here. Frankly, this surprised me, since before my conversion to Alpha Male 2.0 status many years ago, I bought into the false SP that said “older women are better in bed.”
5. Intelligence / Conversational Ability - This one is a little tricky, and it’s the only one where the two basic categories of “younger” and “older” aren’t enough. Instead, we need to break things back out into three categories: VYW (18-22 year olds), moderately young women (23-32 year-olds), and older women (33+).
One of my favorite things to do with a non-FB woman in my life is to just sit and talk to her. Many of you guys in my age group seem to agree this is an enjoyable thing to do with a woman.
Can you do this with VYW? No. Barring rare exceptions, you will not be able to do this with a woman this young, particularly if you are an older guy (over age 35). Many men point this out as one of the greatest disadvantages of younger women, and I agree (though I think drama and flakiness are bigger disadvantages). I analyzed this problem in detail here.
However, is there a noticeable difference between the conversational, intellectual ability of a woman in her mid to late 20’s vs. a woman over 33? In my experience, not really. Assuming both women are of reasonable intelligence, I don’t think women over 33 have any significant advantage in this area than younger women. (Of course there are low-intelligence idiots in any age range; I’m not talking about those, and those women should only be FB's anyway.)
Thus, the summary here is that women age 23 and over win here, women under 23 lose, and lose big.
6. Longevity of Relationships - Older women win here. If your objective is to get into a long, consistent relationship that’s more serious than a FB, the older the woman is, the better your odds become, regardless of if it’s an MLTR or OLTR (though OLTR will usually last longer than a MLTR if the woman is older). This actually flips the other way if we’re talking about FB’s; younger women will last far longer in FB’s than older women will.
Older women tend to be much less comfortable with casual relationships (unless they’re cheating on a husband/boyfriend and you’re the guy on the side). My longest FB relationships tended to be with younger women (including VYW) and my longest more serious relationships (MLTR’s, high-end MLTR’s and OLTR) tended to last longer with women who were either over 30 or close to it. Many of you have reflected the same experience (though again, there are always exceptions).
7. Bodies - Again, I’m going to surprise many people here. Societal Programming, particularly in the manosphere, preaches that younger women have perfect bodies, and as soon as they cross over age 30, their SMV instantly plummets and their bodies instantly get disgusting.
I have not found this to be the case, at all. Indeed, I have encountered a hell of a lot of the exact opposite; younger women with stretch marks and other weirdness from babies, weight gain, smoking weed, drinking alcohol, tats, and piercings, and women over 30, often well over 30, with perfect, amazing, tight, trim, teenager-like bodies.
When women hit 40, then yes, I start so see a consistent set of problems with the naked female body. But prior to 40, I have to say that I’ve encountered too many women in their 30’s with amazing bodies and too many women under 30 with average or problematic bodies.
I have found that women in their 20’s (or legal teens) just don’t give a shit about health, fitness, eating right, exercising, taking care of their skin, and staying thin, whereas women over 30’s tend to be obsessed with this stuff. I have definitely seen this reflected in the numerous naked bodies I’ve been up close and personal with in terms of women in both categories.
Am I saying that women in their 30’s have better bodies than women under 30? No, I can’t go that far. I’ve been with too many perfect-bodied younger women.
However, I can say that in terms of women under 40, I consider the quality of the average naked body from the average American woman in her 20’s and the average American woman in her 30’s about a tie. It’s about the same, on average, across the board, with about an equal spread of hot bodies and flawed bodies in both age groups. Over 40, most women do indeed lose that tie, so women under 40 definitely are better looking naked than those over 40. (Though this is rapidly changing as the entire human race continues to get younger-looking.)
I’m sure you could find some statistics that conflict with what I just said, i.e. perhaps statistically speaking there are more overweight women in their 30’s than in their 20’s. That might be true, but here's the thing; are you going to fuck a bunch of fat women in their 30’s? Of course not. So overweight women aren't even relevant here (unless that's what you're into).
Therefore, in terms of the women in their 30’s you’d actually have sex with, I don’t see a huge disparity in body quality between modern Western women in their 30's and modern Western women in their 20's. I just don’t. And I’ve looked. (Outside the West is an entirely different story, of course. On my flight back to the US from China recently, I saw a few women from Colombia... Oh my GOD.)
So Which Is Better?
Which are better? Younger or older? The answer is, it depends on who you are and what you want. If you want a bunch of fun, casual relationships, younger women are the way to go. If you're looking for a very long, serious relationship, going over age 33 might be a good idea (unless you yourself are younger than 33). If you're an older guy and want to bang younger chicks, then bang younger chicks. Have fun. But, if you're an older guy who wants to settle down for the long-term, choosing a much younger woman is insane. If fast sex is important to you, stick with younger women. You get the idea.
A smart Alpha 2.0 uses different age groups for different purposes. As just one example, my OLTR is in her late 30's, which is what I wanted. My FB's are all quite young, which again, is exactly what I wanted. You could consider FB's as great for younger women (including VYW) but raise the age bar a little for MLTR's and perhaps a little more for an OLTR (if OLTR is what you want).
My personal opinion is that I will still always focus on women under the age of 33 simply because I hate ASD and waiting for sex, though exceptions always slip through (including my current OLTR), particularly if my objective is something longer-term and more serious. You also have to adjust all of this based on your age. I just turned 45; if you’re 30 or 55 you’re going to prioritize things differently than I.
As always, start with what will make you long-term happy, and go from there. Forget about what society or women want for you.
First, as always, we need to get our definitions straight. What exactly does “older” or “younger” mean?
Longtime readers know that in general, I separate the “older” vs. “younger” at age 33. As I’ve discussed many times here, when a woman crosses over age 33 (if not sooner), her ASD spikes into the stratosphere and her entire attitude about dating, men, and sex changes forever. Things that used to be enjoyable to her, like sex on the first or second date, or very casual sexual relationships, are now suddenly horrible and largely unacceptable.
That doesn’t mean dating women over 33 is 100% bad. In this article and this one I discuss the good things about dating women over 33 and how to navigate some of the problems they present.
“Younger” women, therefore, are women age 32 and under. A third category, Very Young Women or VYW are women under the age of 23. For purposes of this article, when I say “younger,” I’m talking about women age 18-32, and when I say “older,” I’m talking about women 33+, unless otherwise stated. It’s true there are several subcategories within these two broad groups, but I already covered them here.
Older vs. Younger Overview
Before I get into this, remember that everything I’m saying here is a generalization. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. There are some very independent, organized, responsible, mature 18 year-old girls, and there are some very low-ASD 38 year-olds who will bang you on the first date within an hour or two of meeting you with no resistance at all. Yeah, yeah. Doesn’t matter. In both cases, these women are unusual exceptions to the rule. They actually prove the rule. I am not interested in discussing the unusual exceptions to the rule (other than acknowledging that they do indeed exist) and I will ignore any comments complaining that I’m generalizing (because I am) and that there are rare, unusual exceptions out there (duh, I know).
Alrightee. Everything I say is within the context of the fast sex dating model I practice and teach, which is represented here (click to zoom):
In this model, there are three separate phases: the pickup phase (getting a woman to agree to meet with you one-on-one), the dating phase (getting to sex as fast as possible, ideally on the second date/meet within 3-4 hours of total face time), and the relationship management phase (ongoing sex via a casual or serious relationship, either of which are nonmonogamous).
Generally speaking, younger women are much easier in the pickup/dating phases, but tend to be harder and more work long-term in the relationship phase. The younger they are, the more these are both true. In other words, a 18 year-old is going to be very easy during pickup/dating phase and an absolute cluster fuck during the long-term relationship phase, whereas a 28 year-old is going to be less easy during pickup/dating and less difficult during the relationship phase.
Older women tend to be the exact opposite. They are absolute nightmares in the pickup/dating phases, but if you are somehow able to persevere, put up with all the ASD, bullshit, woman logic, and ridiculous demands (and in the case of the fast sex model, get very lucky with sex that occurs relatively quickly), then ongoing relationships tend to be easier and more reliable with these women.
The problem is the words fast sex. I personally don’t like waiting more than two or three dates with zero sex, since I don’t see the point, and there are too many pretty women in the world who are perfectly happy having sex on date two. If you feel the same way as I do, most relationships you’ll have will be with younger women (under age 33 or so) simply because most women over 33 won’t ever get to the point of having a relationship you, because they'll insist on making you wait too long for sex, causing you to next them and go have sex with the 26 year-old around the corner who won't make you wait.
Of course you could follow a more traditional, beta male type of dating, where you have five or more dates before you have sex (ugh, kill me), and thus get more relationships with older women, but getting to sex slowly like that isn’t what this blog or my books are about.
Other Pro’s and Con’s
With all that being said, here are a list of other pro’s and con’s. They are listed in no particular order.
1. Reliability and Scheduling - Older women win here. In terms of keeping a reliable schedule for meets and dates, younger women are difficult, and VYW are extremely difficult. Older women, even those who are single mothers, tend to be more reliable and less flaky. Granted, all women are flakey to some degree (it’s core part of being female), but the flaky factor drops significantly when a women gets over age 30 and again when she gets over age 35. VYW are a lot of fun, but god damn, the constant flaking, forgetting, rescheduling, emergencies and cancelling gets extremely irritating, particularly when you’re a busy guy juggling work, family, multiple women, Mission, etc.
2. Easy Compliance - Younger women win here, big time. Younger women are far more likely to go along with any agenda you set for them than older women, who tend to be strongly opinionated and set in their ways. (Older men are the same, by the way, including me.) As always, the younger the woman, the more compliant she tends to be (though there are certainly exceptions, particularly in the sugar daddy world).
3. Drama - Older women win here; not by much, but they do. Women over 33 indeed tend to be less drama overall in ongoing relationships. I’m not saying older women are zero drama, or even low drama. (All women are drama to some degree.) I’m saying that they tend to have less drama than younger women, who are usually more touchy, whiny, bitchy, and/or complain about stupid shit more often.
There are two reasons for this. Younger women tend to be more connected with the fact that they’re young and hot, therefore subconsciously think they can throw more drama and crap at a man, which he'll put up with. Also, younger men tend to put up with WAY more drama than older guys, and since younger women are more accustomed to younger men, they’re more acclimated to higher-drama relationships.
4. Quality of Sex - I’m going to surprise many people here, and piss off a lot of women, since Societal Programming says that older women are better in bed. It’s true that older women are more comfortable and understanding of their own bodies during sex than younger women, but are they better in bed than younger women?
All I can go from is my own experience, as well as the experience of the men I’ve communicated about this topic over many years. I’ve slept with a lot of older women and younger women, and I have to say that in general (and again, there are many exceptions), younger women tend to be better in bed.
I’m sorry, but it’s true. During sex, younger women tend to be more excited, enthusiastic, willing to try new things, willing to follow instructions, and are way less picky. There’s a light and eagerness in younger women’s eyes during sex that frankly, most older women don’t have. Many women in their 30's have had much of that "light" burned out of them by stressful kids, numerous failed relationships, financial pressures, and all kinds of other baggage. (Celebrity example: Britney Spears. Hit up YouTube, watch a few interviews of her when she was 19, then watch a few of her today. The first woman will be bubbly, enthusiastic and excited. The second woman is robotic with dead eyes.)
You could argue that some younger women are faking this enthusiasm during sex, and maybe under certain scenarios they are, but that reinforces my point; it shows they care more about your experience than an older woman who refuses to show any enthusiasm, fake or otherwise.
It’s true that older women tend to orgasm easier during sex since they know their own bodies, and that many younger women either can’t cum at all or take a very long time to do so. It’s also true that there are some older women who will absolutely blow your mind and body during sex. Yet overall, I have to say that younger women tend to be better here. Frankly, this surprised me, since before my conversion to Alpha Male 2.0 status many years ago, I bought into the false SP that said “older women are better in bed.”
5. Intelligence / Conversational Ability - This one is a little tricky, and it’s the only one where the two basic categories of “younger” and “older” aren’t enough. Instead, we need to break things back out into three categories: VYW (18-22 year olds), moderately young women (23-32 year-olds), and older women (33+).
One of my favorite things to do with a non-FB woman in my life is to just sit and talk to her. Many of you guys in my age group seem to agree this is an enjoyable thing to do with a woman.
Can you do this with VYW? No. Barring rare exceptions, you will not be able to do this with a woman this young, particularly if you are an older guy (over age 35). Many men point this out as one of the greatest disadvantages of younger women, and I agree (though I think drama and flakiness are bigger disadvantages). I analyzed this problem in detail here.
However, is there a noticeable difference between the conversational, intellectual ability of a woman in her mid to late 20’s vs. a woman over 33? In my experience, not really. Assuming both women are of reasonable intelligence, I don’t think women over 33 have any significant advantage in this area than younger women. (Of course there are low-intelligence idiots in any age range; I’m not talking about those, and those women should only be FB's anyway.)
Thus, the summary here is that women age 23 and over win here, women under 23 lose, and lose big.
6. Longevity of Relationships - Older women win here. If your objective is to get into a long, consistent relationship that’s more serious than a FB, the older the woman is, the better your odds become, regardless of if it’s an MLTR or OLTR (though OLTR will usually last longer than a MLTR if the woman is older). This actually flips the other way if we’re talking about FB’s; younger women will last far longer in FB’s than older women will.
Older women tend to be much less comfortable with casual relationships (unless they’re cheating on a husband/boyfriend and you’re the guy on the side). My longest FB relationships tended to be with younger women (including VYW) and my longest more serious relationships (MLTR’s, high-end MLTR’s and OLTR) tended to last longer with women who were either over 30 or close to it. Many of you have reflected the same experience (though again, there are always exceptions).
7. Bodies - Again, I’m going to surprise many people here. Societal Programming, particularly in the manosphere, preaches that younger women have perfect bodies, and as soon as they cross over age 30, their SMV instantly plummets and their bodies instantly get disgusting.
I have not found this to be the case, at all. Indeed, I have encountered a hell of a lot of the exact opposite; younger women with stretch marks and other weirdness from babies, weight gain, smoking weed, drinking alcohol, tats, and piercings, and women over 30, often well over 30, with perfect, amazing, tight, trim, teenager-like bodies.
When women hit 40, then yes, I start so see a consistent set of problems with the naked female body. But prior to 40, I have to say that I’ve encountered too many women in their 30’s with amazing bodies and too many women under 30 with average or problematic bodies.
I have found that women in their 20’s (or legal teens) just don’t give a shit about health, fitness, eating right, exercising, taking care of their skin, and staying thin, whereas women over 30’s tend to be obsessed with this stuff. I have definitely seen this reflected in the numerous naked bodies I’ve been up close and personal with in terms of women in both categories.
Am I saying that women in their 30’s have better bodies than women under 30? No, I can’t go that far. I’ve been with too many perfect-bodied younger women.
However, I can say that in terms of women under 40, I consider the quality of the average naked body from the average American woman in her 20’s and the average American woman in her 30’s about a tie. It’s about the same, on average, across the board, with about an equal spread of hot bodies and flawed bodies in both age groups. Over 40, most women do indeed lose that tie, so women under 40 definitely are better looking naked than those over 40. (Though this is rapidly changing as the entire human race continues to get younger-looking.)
I’m sure you could find some statistics that conflict with what I just said, i.e. perhaps statistically speaking there are more overweight women in their 30’s than in their 20’s. That might be true, but here's the thing; are you going to fuck a bunch of fat women in their 30’s? Of course not. So overweight women aren't even relevant here (unless that's what you're into).
Therefore, in terms of the women in their 30’s you’d actually have sex with, I don’t see a huge disparity in body quality between modern Western women in their 30's and modern Western women in their 20's. I just don’t. And I’ve looked. (Outside the West is an entirely different story, of course. On my flight back to the US from China recently, I saw a few women from Colombia... Oh my GOD.)
So Which Is Better?
Which are better? Younger or older? The answer is, it depends on who you are and what you want. If you want a bunch of fun, casual relationships, younger women are the way to go. If you're looking for a very long, serious relationship, going over age 33 might be a good idea (unless you yourself are younger than 33). If you're an older guy and want to bang younger chicks, then bang younger chicks. Have fun. But, if you're an older guy who wants to settle down for the long-term, choosing a much younger woman is insane. If fast sex is important to you, stick with younger women. You get the idea.
A smart Alpha 2.0 uses different age groups for different purposes. As just one example, my OLTR is in her late 30's, which is what I wanted. My FB's are all quite young, which again, is exactly what I wanted. You could consider FB's as great for younger women (including VYW) but raise the age bar a little for MLTR's and perhaps a little more for an OLTR (if OLTR is what you want).
My personal opinion is that I will still always focus on women under the age of 33 simply because I hate ASD and waiting for sex, though exceptions always slip through (including my current OLTR), particularly if my objective is something longer-term and more serious. You also have to adjust all of this based on your age. I just turned 45; if you’re 30 or 55 you’re going to prioritize things differently than I.
As always, start with what will make you long-term happy, and go from there. Forget about what society or women want for you.
Want over 35 hours of how-to podcasts on how to improve your woman life and financial life? Want to be able to coach with me twice a month? Want access to hours of technique-based video and audio? The SMIC Program is a monthly podcast and coaching program where you get access to massive amounts of exclusive, members-only Alpha 2.0 content as soon as you sign up, and you can cancel whenever you want. Click here for the details.