Lately in the comments and in my email, the topic of when it is, or is not, appropriate to spend money on women has arisen. Today I’m going to discuss the issue of spending money on women in order to have sex with them the first time, within a dating or seduction context. I will not be discussing spending money on women in ongoing relationships, which is a very different topic (though I will cover that in a future post here).
This is a complicated issue so I’m going to do my best to simplify it. The summary statement is that there are times spending money on women is always bad, and other times where it’s a matter of opinion based on your personal preferences and situation. It’s further complicated by the fact that there are exceptions to the “always bad” rule. I will explain as we go along.
As always, we need to get our definitions straight. In this article, when I say “spending money on women,” I’m talking about spending more money than the typical Alpha Male / PUA would spend on two dates or less in order to have sex with a new hot woman.
For example, about 30% of all my first-time lays cost me literally zero dollars other than the small cost of gas to and from the date locations. Most of the time when I do spend money, I’m spending less than about $17 grand total between both of my dates (again, not including gas), since as most of you know, I have sex with new women under a two-date, 3-4-hour total face-time meet-to-sex model.
I think spending a little money on gas (or similar transportation) plus buying a woman a drink or two, maybe an appetizer or side salad at the most, in order to have sex with her within a few hours is just fine. I don’t consider that “spending money on women.” So for the purposes of this article, “spending money on women” is anything more than that. If you have to take a woman out on two or three full-on dinner dates, that’s definitely spending money as I define it here. If you have to rent a hotel room to have sex with her the first time, that is also spending money as defined here. If you have to pay her cash under a hooker or sugar daddy arrangement, that’s also definitely spending money as I define it here. You get the idea.
Now that we have a definition, let’s discuss when it’s okay and not okay.
When Spending Money On Women Is Unacceptable
While there are two exceptions to this we’ll cover in a minute, spending money on women is unacceptable if you have no other way of getting laid. If your game, confidence, or physical appearance is so terrible that you literally can’t have sex with a new cute woman without throwing cash, gifts, or expensive dinners at her, this is unacceptable, and you are a beta. Period, end of story, no excuses. If this is you, either surrender to being a beta, or else come to a complete stop and improve yourself as a man. Improve your appearance. Lose weight (or gain muscle if you’re super skinny). Improve your wardrobe. Work on your confidence and outcome independence. Learn game. Bottom line, improve. You’re in a very, very bad life position if the only way you can have new sex is by paying for it.
Now before some of you blow up your keyboards by telling me I’m completely wrong, I admit there are two exceptions to this rule and will explain both.
The first exception to this rule is if you are so old that improving your appearance really isn’t an option. If you’re 87 years old and are bent over and wrinkly, and want to fuck a hot 25 year-old, then I agree that improving your appearance probably isn’t going to cut it no matter how hard you work at it (though I still think you should do it for happiness and lifestyle reasons).
So fine, if you’re that old and disgusting, there’s no problem with you throwing money around to get laid. Someday I will be 120 years old and (might) look like shit, and I may have to do this myself at that point. I do admit that with some super old guys, improving appearance to the point where you can fuck women 50 years younger than you with zero money spent probably isn’t an option.
The second exception to this rule is if you are ridiculously wealthy and money is no object. What is “ridiculously wealthy?” I consider that a net worth of $10 million or more.
If you are literally worth $10 million or close to it, and see no point in learning game, and find it easier to make it rain $100 bills on cute girls while cruising around on your yacht, then fine, I see no problem with this if that lifestyle makes you happy. You’ve got money to burn, go ahead and burn it, god bless.
Now remember, dammit! I said $10 million or more. If you’re worth $2 million or whatever because you have a nice house you’ve paid off, you’re not included in this exception, and I still think it’s very bad if you can’t get laid without throwing money at women. I say this because I know there are some older guys who read this blog who are worth about $1 million or a little more, because of a paid-off house or decent retirement account, but are no where near $10 million in net worth. No excuses for you guys. You need to improve your game/appearance/confidence if you can’t get laid without throwing money at women. I hate to say this, but being worth $1 million is not “rich,” not with today’s inflation. (Don’t get me started on a political rant about corporatism or the Federal Reserve.)
Okay, that covers when spending money on women is unacceptable. Now let’s switch gears and discuss when spending money on women becomes much less black and white and is more a matter of opinion.
When Spending Money Might Be Acceptable Depending On Your Circumstances
Let’s say that you don’t have to spend money in order to have sex with new women, beyond the minuscule expenses I described above. Let’s say that you’ve worked on your game/appearance/confidence enough where you can get laid reasonably fast, with at least reasonably cute chicks, without spending more than about $20-$30 or so (ideally zero).
First of all, congratulations. You are an Alpha Male and a badass no matter how much money you choose to spend on women at this point. Even if we disagree on how much money you choose to spend on women, you have my respect.
(If you are not at this point yet, you have more research to do and more practice to put in. Stop being a lazy beta and get to work. If you have no idea where to begin, start right here.)
So if you can get laid without spending money, does it make sense to start spending money on women to improve your speed to sex or quality of women?
Speaking very generally, the answer is yes, assuming two things:
1. You honestly want to do this and are not doing it from a sense of desperation.
2. You make plenty of money above and beyond your monthly bills and can easily afford it without screwing anything up in your financial life or going one penny into debt.
If either of the above two things are untrue, you’re venturing into a danger zone by spending money on women, and I think you need to reconsider right now. But if the above are both true, I have no problem with it. Let’s proceed.
How Much To Spend
Assuming all the above is true, the next issue is about how much to spend. What amount is appropriate? How much is too much? How much is too little?
The answer is: There is no objectively right or wrong answer to this question.
For many years now, all over the manosphere and PUAverse, I’ve seen guys really lose their shit over disagreeing about what specific amounts are for “AFCs,” “betas,” or “pussies” vs. what amounts are “smart because they save time.” Guys on both sides get really pissed about this and it’s very stupid. All of these guys are wrong, because there is no objective right or wrong numerical amount you should spend on women, and anyone bitching on blogs or forums that there is a “right” amount and everyone else is “wrong” is flat out incorrect now matter how loud he screams (again, within the context of all the items above we’ve already discussed).
Assuming you are an Alpha who can get laid on the cheap, that amount is something YOU must come up with, that makes sense for YOU, based on the following factors:
1. How much money you make or have.
2. How busy you are.
3. How extroverted or introverted you are.
4. Whether you’re a Thrill of the Hunt man or Pleasure of Sex man.
5. The age of the women you prefer, or more specifically, the age difference between you and them.
6. The part of the world you live in.
7. How frugal you are.
8. Your sexual and relationship goals.
All eight of these factors are going to drive the appropriate amount of money up or down based on your personal situation and personality. It’s up to YOU, and no one else.
I’ll give you my example of how I’ve determined this for myself. Again, this is only an example to show you my thought process as I go through the above eight factors; I am not describing what is “right,” since all of us are different.
I am a very busy, higher-income, 42 year-old man, who hates spending money because of a frugal INTJ personality and a financially poor upbringing that, for better or worse, still rolls around in my subconscious. I am also introverted and an extreme Pleasure of Sex man, who hates going to parties, events, and clubs (with or without women). I’d rather go see a movie or be cozy at home and have sex. I live in the United States, in the Pacific Northwest. These days, I love having sex with women ages 21 to about 55 as long as they’re trim and hot, but avoid cold approaching women over age 33 for reasons I’ve discussed before. I have extremely strong game and confidence, and can easily have sex with hot new women under age 33 within 3 or 4 hours total face-time-to-sex by spending less than $20 pretty much whenever I want. My goal with women is always to have long-term FBs and MLTRs with every woman I have sex with. I hate one night stands and short-term relationships and never do them if I can avoid them.
Okay, that’s me. You may be radically different, so remember that. Based on my situation, here is my thought process:
I can have sex with new women for virtually free, but it does take me three, sometimes four hours of face time, in addition to some (but not much) time sending out copy and paste openers on dating sites. I’m a time management nerd and time is very important to me, so the faster to the sex, the better.
If I wanted to drop this 3.5 hour average to 5 minutes, could just pay a hooker. That would be a perfectly valid thing to do at my income level and with my time management goals. However, with my hatred of spending money, and my goal of having long-lasting FBs or MLTRs with women, hookers aren’t an option for me.
Other higher income guys who love one night stands and think 5 minute meet-to-sex times are awesome will have no problem paying hookers. Totally fine; that works for them.
See how this works? But let’s continue.
My next option would be to drop my 3.5 hour meet-to-sex times to perhaps 1-2 hours by going to the sugar daddy sites and start slapping down $50, $100, $150 or more in cash and/or more expensive dates to do a sugar baby. Frankly, I wouldn’t even have to use sugar daddy sites for this, since there are plenty of hot, young gold diggers on OKCupid, POF, Match, and within my own female social circle whom this would work for. I have run into many of these women on my dating adventures.
(I have had sex with women from sugar daddy sites without spending any money on them, but zero-cost sugar daddy game is an advanced level of game, is just as time consuming as normal online game if not more so, has several downsides, and is a topic for another time.)
So why not pay some sugar babies? At my income level I could afford this with no problem, and it would certainly increase my speed to sex. But I hate spending money with a passion, and we have that darn long-term FB/MLTR goal that I have. Spending $100 to fuck a hottie one time is literally useless to me, since I want something long-term with every woman I sleep with, even if it’s just an inconsistent FB. And I’m sure as hell not going to whip out $100 every time I want to have sex with someone. Again, I might as well just pay a hooker if that’s the case.
So at the moment, for me, I choose not to do this. 3.5 hours isn’t a lot of time, and $0-$20 to bring a new woman into my life is pretty damn awesome to me. I have also never seen a field-tested, reliable, and repeatable method of creating a very low-cost, long-term FB or MLTR relationship resulting from paying a sugar baby for first-time sex. (If I ever see one, I will definitely try it out. So far I have not seen one.)
As I get older or more busy, I may change my mind about this. It’s entirely possible, but so far, I don’t feel the need to go the sugar daddy route (beyond a few experiments I’ve run).
Other higher income guys may think sugar daddy game is the greatest thing in the world. That works for them.
So for the time being, I’ll stick with my super low-cost, 3.5 hours meet-to-sex system. I worked very hard to develop that system, since I was very unhappy when I was working under a 10-12 hour meet-to-sex system, like most beta males, back in 2007. What I have works. For me. Would you prefer that, or would you rather spend more money? Depends on the factors we discussed above.
So there you go. Meet the minimum requirements of being able to get laid without spending money on women, and then determine a proper amount based on your personal and unique circumstances.